Race Week Fuelling Made Simple with Hanah Mills

We sit down with sports dietitian Hanah Mills to map out a practical fuelling plan for the Gold Coast Marathon and half marathon, from taper week to the finish line. We unpack gut issues, carb loading, hydration, caffeine, sodium, and what to do when race day logistics throw your usual routine out. 
• solo travel lessons and what Blue Zones get right about health and happiness 
• building a flexible mindset around food without sacrificing performance goals 
• learning from race-week stress and IBS symptoms during half marathon prep 
• separating IBS from common runner’s gut and why the fix depends on the cause 
• using low FODMAP strategies for carb loading and pre-race meals 
• gut training basics and why you should stick with what you’ve practised 
• taper-week nutrition and why maintenance energy beats cutting calories 
• carb loading targets in grams per kilo and what “proper” looks like 
• hydration needs during the carb load and how to check urine colour 
• race morning carb top-ups and avoiding fibre fat and too much protein 
• caffeine dosing ranges timing and when caffeine gels make more sense 
• sodium marketing myths and when electrolytes may still help via thirst 
• cramp reality check neuromuscular fatigue pickle juice and mouth rinse tricks 
• post-race recovery carbs hydration protein and a note on magnesium research 
Be sure to check us out across all forms of social media and subscribe to this channel if you want to stay up to date to the latest episodes and any other anecdotes with which we might share across these video platforms. If you ever find yourself locally in Brisbane, be sure to drop into one of our facilities or down on the Gold Coast in Burley. You can also check us out at scienceoffitness.com.au and see all things relating to what we offer in programming and performance, whether it's online or in person. 

Transcript

Welcome And What We Cover

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Science of Fitness Podcast, where we aim to inspire you to live a more healthy and fulfilling life as we share evidence and anecdotes on all things relating to health, performance, business, and wellness. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Science of Fitness Podcast. I have the lovely Hannah Mills back. Once again, Hannah, welcome.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Thank you for having me again.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Such a pleasure. Sports dietitian, young, healthy, athletic athlete, actually, as we defined earlier. Really exciting episode. And I'm so glad you were like really keen to do this at a kind of impromptu call out. For I want to talk all things running in the Gold Coast Marathon, which is a couple of days away from us recording this episode. So we'll have it out pretty quickly for all those that are going to be running. And that's kind of the main thing I want to unpack with this. Before we go into that, you just got back from how many weeks in Europe?

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Seven. Seven weeks.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

That's a long time.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Yep. No running happening there. What did you learn about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:03

What did you learn about yourself in Europe briefly? And then as a practitioner, obviously the downtime and the thinking and all that traveling stuff. What got, you know, little ignited fire in you while you were away as well. So what did you learn about yourself first?

Solo Travel Lessons And Blue Zones

SPEAKER_02 1:20

I think the first thing I learned is to put it simply that I love solo traveling, you know. But to expand on that, it's I really enjoyed being able to just listen to myself. I think so often, you know, you're very easily influenced by everyone around you, and you know, for the joy of we love doing things together. But it's so nice to like hear what you want just with you and responding to that. Um, so yeah, that's really the main thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

That's interesting. And then professionally, what or were you inspired by something? What did you think about? What's on your mind now?

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Two things come to mind. So actually, just before I went to Europe, I watched the documentary The Blue Zones. Uh, it's got a different title on Netflix. Have you seen it?

SPEAKER_01 2:03

I haven't seen it, but I know about it.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

You should watch it. It's really good. Um, but, anyways, I watched that just before I went to Europe and I learned about a lot of the principles um as to how these people in the blue zones live, and essentially the blue zones.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

I can explain that quickly, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

So blue zones are essentially, I think there's seven areas in the world, and they're all different countries. And obviously, because they're different countries, it's such a coincidence that they all have the longest living people in the world.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

So they So the Blue Zone is has the people that live the longest, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Yes, sorry, the longest living and um happiest often. Okay. And so they followed the traits that each of these people um, you know, included into their daily practices, and they found that a lot of them crossed over in between the different countries. Um to list off a few examples, following a faith, like a religion, um, more of a Mediterranean style diet, having a glass of red wine each night, um, you know, connection with community and and things like that, uh, doing things not out of convenience, so not having a car walking everywhere and you know, things like that. Um, and so I I got to see a lot of that in practice there. And I think I really want to include more of that in my practice, but then also like on social media. I think it's a really beautiful message in in terms of stepping away from things that we feel like we should do and things that going more towards things that feel more natural and a bit more um organic, organic, yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, and so yeah, I think it's it's probably those things of you know, you know, the more whole food diets, the more Mediterranean style diets, more walking everywhere. I I rode to the hairdressers the other day instead of driving a car, which we instinctively just do, right? Right, and it's it's so nice. And I'm like, okay, so it's probably more of those day-to-day practices that I really enjoyed observing, experiencing, and then hopefully implementing here.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, that's interesting. And then, you know, conversationally with a patient, for example, you might actually Because I think food, and we'll we can probably touch on this in its own right, has a very rich cultural experience if we allow it. Is that something you're

Food Flexibility Without Losing Progress

SPEAKER_01 4:15

probably considering communicating with people more?

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Significantly. I already try to incorporate a lot of that into practice, anyways, because uh disordered eating is so common and a lot of people feel like they should disconnect from social experiences so that they improve their food quality. So, an example of that is say, for example, someone is trying to uh lose body fat, and so they're following this strict diet, and they don't go to the dinners with their friends and don't go to um, you know, invite people over or whatnot because they want to weigh everything out and be super rigid, but that can really take away from their quality of life and their mental health. And so I'm already of the belief that not even of the belief, I'm already pushing that people should not take away those experiences. Continue to connect, continue to um have those quality experiences around food because that's going to support your mental health and social wellness, social wellness and everything like that.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Attitude to food.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Absolutely, you know, it's no longer this scary, scary thing to talk about and things that we should avoid. It's more, no, everyone is experiencing this and it's very important for your yeah, quality of life.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

And it's that simple as well. It does sound so simple, but literally we need to.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Have that Christmas lunch. Who cares about the meal plan? Have this, have that, and we'll just adapt things around that in accordance to your goals, you know, as we go. It's not it's not to say I'm never, I'm never saying don't do this, don't do that. I'm saying do it, have fun, and then we'll go back to the legalities later. You know, we'll figure out whatever we need to figure out later.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yep, yeah, yeah. Frameworks, not rules, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:02

100%. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

That's interesting.

Gold Coast Marathon Context And Experience

SPEAKER_01 6:05

So let's get into the marathon stuff then. Um, because I want to tie all that together because I think it does tie together really nicely. You personally, did you do the Gold Coast half last year? Yeah, I've done it. It was the Gold Coast.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Three years in a row now.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Are you doing it this weekend?

SPEAKER_02 6:20

I'm not. I'm not. I miss out on the tickets, and then I have my trip to Europe, and I'm like, all right, I guess you know, we're taking away a break from running for a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Fair enough. Um okay, so talk us through that experience. You've done it now three years in a row. What have besides this, yeah, but um, in that experience, what did you learn about yourself, your fueling strategies, and I guess how did you evolve as a practitioner in putting yourself through the training and the build-up to this epic race day?

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Yeah, I think in a lot of ways, one way that really stands out to me was when I, so not last year, the year before, I had a lot of stress going on in my life around the half marathon, and I developed IBS because of it. And so with that, I had to really adapt to like the types of foods that I was having, the type of gut training that I was doing, the types of gels I was having, um, the other supplements and things like that that I had on the day, so that I didn't get an upset tummy. And and it worked, it worked really, really well. So I was stoked, and you know, it meant that I got to talk to everyone about it anytime anyone gets gut upsets. But I think that that was such a valuable experience, even though it wasn't, it didn't seem like it at the time. Yeah, so valuable for me now because anytime anyone gets an upset tummy, which is common with you know, marathon prep um and things like that, whether it's due to IBS or whether it's due to the lack of gut training, that we can now go, it's okay, I've got plan A, B, C, and D, and I've got all these different types of tools that might suit you.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

That's really interesting. Um developing IBS for a second, because that's a hell of a thing.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

It's a common thing now, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

And so many people probably do, yeah. Don't understand how or why they suddenly are dealing with it, particularly when they're doing something that's healthier and better for them and they've been a bit more conscious about their diet because I'm training and running, yet my tummy, my gut feels like it's worse off.

SPEAKER_04 8:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

As you mentioned, multiple factors that tend to contribute to this, stress being a major one. How does that all connect? If you can summarize it appropriately.

Stress IBS And The Gut Brain Axis

SPEAKER_02 8:36

So how does IBS connect with running? Is that Yeah?

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Well, as you said, you went through a stressful period in the prep to the half marathon and developed IBS type symptoms. How and why does that happen? You know, was it like work-related stress, personal life-related stress, and all the running come together and suddenly your system's going, oh my god, what are you doing? And it's presenting in your stomach almost.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

So you're saying, like, yeah, if if people were to experience a similar scenario these days, how that applies. So IBS is a big question. It's a big complex topic.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

For those that don't understand IBS is irritable bowel syndrome.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Well done. Yeah, all over it. Um, so and I really think it's important that we distinguish the difference between having gut issues intra-running and IBS. Um gut issues intra-running is is very, very common, and and that's often due to the lack of gut training, whether someone's over like um drained their fluid, poor gel timing, too much, you know, things like that can all upset your tummy. And when you're running, your tummy is very sensitive. So that's different. But if we're talking about IVS, irritable bowel syndrome to our understanding today, it can be influenced or brought on by a number of different reasons. Um, these days, quite commonly, you know, stress where it's affecting that nervous system response. So the gut brain axis. Um, so the gut brain axis is a basically this nerve. We can get into the science of it, but if I'm keeping it, but it's it's basically, you know, every time you feel excited or nervous in your head, and maybe you get butterflies in your tummy, it's that same connection. So when we get a lot of stress mentally, then we can um have a more sensitive stomach. And so um our digestion is is really affected by that. And whether it goes one way more towards constipation or more towards diarrhea-like symptoms, we don't know what makes someone go in that direction, but we do know that stress is a strong correlation.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

There's also lifestyle factors, there's also people who do just have a sensitivity to these certain nutrients, so they're they're called FODMAPs, um fermentable sugars. Um, and they are basically these these types of sugars that yeah, ferment inside of the intestine, and sometimes um, yeah, people don't have the ability to break it down properly, um, or because their gut is sensitive because of stress, whatever it is, um, that's bringing it on, it can mean that you know they'll get that bloating, the gas, um, and then either the diarrhoea or constipation symptoms, a lot of pain in the gut and things like that. So bringing it back for me at the time, I had a lot of stress in my day-to-day life. Um, and then on top of that, when you were running, you were essentially going into more of a fight or flight response. You know, your your nervous system is activating, you're um you're trying to push the body harder than what it is at rest. Okay, and so the more the the higher that intensity, the more that nervous system and that stress is going to be felt within the body. So, therefore, the more likely you are to experience gut issues when consuming food. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah, yeah, to yeah, to me. I mean, I've dabbled in this world a lot. Yeah, it's really funny because the musculoskeletal system might present the same.

unknown 12:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

You know, we don't understand cramp as a mechanism at all. Yet some people might experience cramp 10Ks into a race, others maybe right at the end. Yeah. Is it nutrition? Is it my nervous system? Is it like what is it? Is it my hydration? And it's like it depends. And it's it's so multifactorial, but the nervous system and the stress for each individual is a major factor that I think we need to consider first almost.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Absolutely, absolutely. And I and I like that you said considering it first, because that's it. You could experience these day-to-day stresses, and that might be the thing that's causing your sensitive tummy, and then that might be the thing that's meaning that it's much harder for you to absorb these gels and these carbs into race. Um but if yeah, you're not, then sometimes it's just you know that gut training. So it's really important to go, okay, what came first?

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Um, to then go, what's our next step? Because with the IBS side of things, the management protocol for that is one, managing that stress the best we can, easier said than done.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Um but two, it's going towards more of those low FOB mat foods. Okay. So for a runner, it's meaning that they're having lower FOBMAP gels, lower FOTMAT carb load, lower FOBMAP pre-race nutrition.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Great.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

To prevent those issues.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Let's stay on that. Yeah. Because let's say there will be someone listening to this that we're now, you know, five, six days out from either the half or the full.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

They might be experiencing these systems.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

They might have just realized that for the first time and gone, oh my God, what am I going to do?

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

So where do they turn now? Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday night, pre-race, racing on Saturday. What do I do? Where do I get what are the gels? What are the type of the brands or what are the things I'm looking for on them? What are the meals I'm going to try and lean towards this week so that come Thursday, Friday I actually feel pretty good?

SPEAKER_02 14:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

What

Low FODMAP Picks For Race Week

SPEAKER_01 14:22

can we do?

SPEAKER_02 14:23

This is a big question.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Um so what are the lower FODMAP foods that I should be looking at first?

SPEAKER_02 14:31

So, yeah, to put it simply, those lower FODMAP foods, so they're fermentable sugars. So I could fermentable oligosaccharides, diasaccharides, monosaccharides, and polyols. Everyone is if with IBS is intolerant to different types. They could be intolerant to one, they could be intolerant to multiple, but everyone's is quite different. As a general answer, you can get the um monash app. There's a low FOB map app, I think it's called Monash Low FOBMAP app, something like that. And you can input the food that you're going to have, and then it will tell you. Uh, it'll show you a wide range of foods that are in the red zone, um, that are high FOB map and will likely upset your tummy, it'll show you foods that are in the green zone and won't or very unlikely to upset your tummy that don't have the FODMAPS. So that's one way. Another way is like when you go to shops, if you haven't seen the label before, it's probably you probably won't recognize it. But um, if you just search up low FOB map label, um, you can see that uh products with packaging, so not fruits and veggies and meat and stuff, but other products, they will have this label on it, and it's basically a little circle with a digestive tract on it, and it's blue and green, and so that will be on um your carbohydrate products. Because these FOD maps are carbohydrates, anything that's it that's high carbohydrate, it's more likely going to be in. So, this is the one of the bigger issues for runners. It's obviously carbohydrates are so important for this prep.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Um, and this rate particularly a week out, it yes, particularly that carb load. If you've got IBS and you're carb loading with high FOBMAP boobs, you're not gonna have fun time. Okay. Um, so yeah, anything that's like fruits, veggies, uh, whole grains, lactose is a type of FOBMAP. So if you're you'll but you'll know pretty quickly if you're intolerant to lactose. Um yeah, lollies, like all of those will have it in it, your your chips and and stuff like that. Um there are some safer products like rice, like sourdough, like um, yeah, certain fruits and things like that that won't have any FOB maps. And so you'll be able to search that up. Um, I've got a resource on my web on my Instagram as well. Um it's just at Hannah Mills, if anyone needs that, Hannah with one in. Um, that I can send that there. So that's where I would start in terms of gels. Um, I believe the SIS, Cliff Blocks, uh, and I'm pretty sure Morton and Precision are lower FOB map gels. There are other ones there too. Um, but yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of like intricate details that kind of go into brands and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, generally speaking, you'll be able to search it up and you'll be able to see, okay, I'm just gonna avoid FOBMAPs altogether this week.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Or like from your carbload onwards until the race is over, instead of going into the intricate details of which FOB map should I avoid.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Yeah, and I think, you know, someone listen to this that might be going, oh, that could be me. As you said, you now have an understanding, and you might be able to look something up and just start to make a bit of a plan around that as you build into race day.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Or just message me. I'll leave more on Instagram, yeah. It's it's hard to yeah, differentiate.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Well, it is, it's so nuanced, and I think it's very important for people to understand that, but at the same time, it's sort of going, it exists, and now that you know, you can actually do something about it. So very important. Okay, so then we talk about training your gut as opposed to IBS type things. People are obviously experiencing gels and all these hydration liquids and variations of that, and they are struggling only when they're running, post-running, day-to-day, they're fine. It's not an IBS type situation. What can they do? Again, we're only five or six days out. How can they start to really think about getting themselves prepped enough for the race? They probably haven't had the two or three months or understanding that you can train your gut over that period. Um, what are you suggesting to people now? Yeah in this very short window.

Gut Training And Smart Gel Timing

SPEAKER_02 18:55

So, gut training, I'll just start by kind of defining it and then I'll kind of go into the logistics around it. But gut training is essentially adapting your gut to be able to absorb nutrients, water, carbs, uh they're the main ones that you'll want during a race. To be able to absorb it during a race. Okay. And as I said before, when the body is under stress, that uh vagus nerve or the gut brain axis is stimulated, and so it's much harder for us to be able to absorb it.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Um so let's just stay on that. So essentially, your nervous system's going, hey, we are running away from a bear, fight or flight. Yeah, we can't be digesting food and pulling energy from the stomach into this blood system out to our muscles to restore them.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Um, we're just gonna pause all absorption, not all, but a lot of the absorption, and we're just gonna deal with this stressful situation. And then when it's over, we'll be able to digest food again.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Yeah.

unknown 19:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

Great, great summary. Thank you. And so that's that's exactly it. If we hadn't done that gut training and it's just sitting there, then and you're bouncing around. So that's the other thing with running versus like cycling or swimming, where there's an undulation, there's movement that'll happen in your face.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

And and you know, we've all felt that before. Like that's why, don't play after you know drinking water and eating lunch. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Wait half an hour. So it's the same thing, it's the same thing. Um, and so they're they're the two things that we have to consider. Um, if we don't train the gut well enough, then you are likely to get that stitch, that bloating, pain, cramping feeling, and then often diarrhea in it in more extreme circumstances. So that's where you'll hear like runners gut. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. People running to the bathroom during their race. So it is something that we obviously want to avoid from a time perspective, but then also from a general comfort. General comfort, yeah, yeah. But not so great photos towards the end. Um, what was the question?

SPEAKER_01 21:06

So so this so the first part is defining that, which you've done. We're now six days out. Oh my god, I didn't even know this was a thing.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

Yeah, what can I do? Yeah, so it's really hard, right? Because usually we do want to start it much further in advance, at least three, four weeks prior and then months prior to that, especially if you're doing the marathon and a longer event where you're gonna need more carbohydrates. Um, and so yeah, because essentially what you're trying to do with carbohydrates specifically is you're developing transporters, so you're developing these little you know, gates inside the intestine to be able to absorb these carbohydrates whilst your body is under this high level of stress. Yeah, okay, so that takes a while, that takes a really long time. And so if you're six days out and you haven't um practiced with the Amount of carbs that you need for your race, I would recommend just going with what you've practiced.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Okay. Going with what you're familiar with. Yes. Don't overthink it.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

And don't, yeah, don't hear my recommendations today on the carbs that you probably would require and then push it because that upset tummy is likely to slow you down a lot more than the extra boots that the carbohydrates are going to give you intra race. There's a lot of things, and we'll talk about this shortly in terms of the carbon, in terms of the morning of, that we can do to help optimize the carbohydrate availability and be able to push that performance. But intra race, just practice with what you already have because yeah, it's it's likely to upset your stomach.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

And don't feel a sense of pressure that you need to be having all these gels and all that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Look, if you're doing the Mara, I'd you'll need some sense of fuel, but you're probably grabbed in your training, you've probably grabbed a Gatorade at some point or waffed down a banana halfway through that 36, 35k that you did a week or two ago. So just go with that. And again, don't feel like you need to have a gel because everyone else is suddenly on a gel and you've never done it. You'll come out second.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Just yeah, exactly. Lean into whatever has worked for you previously and and optimise that exactly. If it's at the aid stations and you're having that drink of electrolyte drink, you've tell me you'll probably be fine with like a couple of sips. Yeah, exactly. It's just more if you were to have a whole gel in one sitting. But if you have like, yeah, the the carbon mixtures at the aid stations and you haven't done anything before, that might be your best option.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

You'll get through, you know. And yeah, maybe it's not optimized as good as you can, but sign up for next year and do some gut training in the lead up to that one instead.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Exactly. And so then for the people who have practiced um with that gut training prior, yeah, you do want to be kind of making sure you're following a similar regime. So maybe it's for the half marathon, one every 5k. For the full marathon, maybe it's one every three to four Ks. Um, because you're going to need those extra carbohydrates for that race. So that's usually how I recommend spacing it out to kind of keep it trickling into the gut without giving it too much of a load.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah, too quickly. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. It's quite funny when you mentioned the stitch and um something. I mean, working with rugby guys and even endurance people in general. One of the big things I'll cue people to do is close their mouth, whether they're running or not, or in a recovery period, just from a musculoskeletal drive in terms of the breathing strategy. Because at the end of the day, the stitch is a diaphragmatic, we think diaphragmatic type respiratory muscle cramp. Yeah. Because your respiration's all compromised. Add in gels fluids, your stomach's suddenly compromised, feels a little bit bloated. That's going to change maybe the respiratory mechanics slightly. And so maybe that's probably how they're linked. So I'm just theorizing here, but I mean a lot of the a lot of the guys we say, close your mouth, breathe through your nose. As hard as that'll be whilst you're fatigued or whilst you're running, might slow you down a bit. But then I think about what it does neurally. It just takes your nervous system from this panting stress state and calms it down a bit. Yeah. Might settle your gut down a little bit, and they're probably relating heavily. It works with your intestine, and so and so the dots connect.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

No, that's that's actually such a good point. And it's so funny you say that because I last week I saw a client and she was like, I haven't practiced with like keeps on my water gut training. And I said, I said, maybe like as you're getting like, you know, okay, 500 meters, I don't know, you would know more specifically about the timing, but I said maybe try to slow down your breathing, breathe through your nose more and and calm that nervous system. So then once again, we're less likely to get that gut upset. So that's that's a beautiful connection there. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Yeah, yeah, and and it's really funny. I think this is why, and to zoom out truly quickly, this is where I think preventative health is actually going to go because we need to understand that the way I breathe drives my neural state. The muscles that I breathe with drive how I recruit and use my abdomen and my abdominal core muscles, which sit in and around all my reproductive and digestive muscles. And it's a system in its own right that has to work together. Like the way I train my abs has a lot to do with my nutrition. And it can help my nutrition. And likewise, if I'm nutritionally not very good and I've got bloating and a sore stomach, and I struggle digestively, it's gonna be quite hard to actually recruit the deep muscles and the intricate muscles of my abdominals. Yeah. Um, and so it's quite funny when you know, get to we get to work with you guys and sit down and talk about this stuff, and you go, oh my god, the dots connect. And I just, if I could wish anything on the consumers of health, and that's the whole world, realize that it's not independent. It's not like, oh, I just need to sort out this and I just need to sort out that, and they should not talk to each other, it's like they need to be on the same page because your body requires that it functions like that day to day.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

100%, 100%. No, I'm really glad that you added that because I think that does add such a deeper, but like more valuable level to you know understanding running physiology and gut training. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Um, so let's

Taper Week Eating And True Carb Loading

SPEAKER_01 27:12

go into the race. Um, and we're building into this race week now, and a lot of people are going, oh my god, I've got race week this week for the Mara. I'm tapering my running training. Do I taper my food? What do I do? Well, and they're they're probably overthinking it, they've changed their whole meal plan. La di da di da. You've probably spoken to a lot of people about this. What are you saying to them?

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Such a good point with their tapering the training. Should I taper back my food? The week of your race, I'm always recommending being at maintenance or even a slight surplus, actually, two weeks out prior. Especially if you've been in a deficit incidentally or intentionally. You know, a lot of people will do a marathon prep and tend to lose a bit of weight during that prep. You want to make sure that the body has more than enough energy available for this race. So then every all of your systems are really firing well. Because that's it, when the body's in too low of energy availability, it'll switch off systems. Okay, you're more likely to get sick, more likely to get injured, things that you don't want during your race. So I'll always say make sure you're at maintenance or even a slight surplus during those times. So if you have been following a meal plan or a meal structure, I would maintain that. I'm hoping that this meal plan and meal structure is, you know, high in carbohydrates, especially throughout this prep. Um, and so therefore that's going to transfer over into supporting your performance for this race. But then as we're getting to the one to two days prior to your race, that's when we need to be considering the carb load. So keeping everything else similar, keep your similar hydration, similar sodium, similar carbohydrates, everything like that day to day. But it's those one to two days prior to your race that that's when you're going to get those extra quote unquote performance benefits. So for a half marathon, that's when I usually just recommend doing the day prior of a carbohydrate load. Um, and for a full marathon, I would recommend doing two. A carbohydrate load is essentially when we are consuming really, really, really high amounts of carbs. Everyone's like, oh, love carb loads, they're so fun. Mate, have you ever talked to anyone who's done a proper carb load?

SPEAKER_01 29:28

No, and it's really funny because I've you know you hear about it so much, and everyone does the carb load and they have one bowl of pasta the night before. I'm on a carb load. Yeah. Is it a bit more than that?

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Significantly more than that.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Yeah, like a lot of people like it's exciting, but then you're like, oh my god, like this is rough. You essentially want eight to ten grams, eight to twelve grams, sorry, per kilo of body weight of carbohydrate per day. So for a for how many days? So for the one day prior for your half, for the two days prior for your full. So you're repeating it for your full.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

So if I'm 50 kilos, I'm eating what, 600 grams of carbs that day on the higher end. And I should be doing that for two days. If you're doing a full okay, so let's say I have a serving of rice for dinner. How many carbs roughly is that, if you know?

SPEAKER_02 30:26

What's a serving? Like it's it's like a if we're doing a diabetes, like, you know, insulin survey, it's like 15 grams of carbs.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

But oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

It's the that yeah, it's sort of like um but okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

That's a I'm just trying to what's in a banana roughly.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

15 grams.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Oh my god. Yeah. So 600 grams, I gotta have how many bananas?

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Let's see like packets of bread. Let's think of, yeah, so it's like probably two loaves of bread.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Yeah, probably three.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

So a bowl of pasta is probably maybe 30 grams of carbs. I might have those numbers wrong.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

But yeah, it's it's gotta be a couple of loaves of bread. Yeah. Um, I guess it depends on how big your loaf of bread is, but it's a lot of loads of bread.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

So essentially, you're gonna be having, you know, say those 600 grams of carbs for this 50 kilo person, you'll be having, say, 150 grams of carbs for breakfast, you know, morning tea, lunch, afternoon tea. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

I mean, how many grams are in a loaf of bread? Standard 608 gram loaf of commercially prepared bread contains between 280 and 340 grams of carbs. So you're around two loaves of bread.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

There you go. So around two loaves of bread. It's a lot, right? And just in one day. And so before you're full, you want double that. You know, you want to have that birthday. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. So it's a lot of carbohydrates, and that's for a 50 kilo person.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

And you still have that's a 50 kilo person. Like if you're a if you're a big Clydesdale, 100 kilos running the running the the Mara, you're pumping 1200 grams of carbs. One or two kilos of carbs, that's four laps of bread. Twice.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

So it's it's a lot of food, and I think that's the thing that a lot of people undersell. And look, if you didn't meet it, you would still get benefits. But if you're trying to really optimize your performance, you really want to push that.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Okay, so because glucose is stored in the liver, it's stored in the muscle. Yes, and we do this carb load that's increasing the storage in both liver and muscle.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Perfect, perfect, both. So to put it into perspective, the average 75 kilo person can store around 700 grams of carbohydrates. Okay. So that's including their muscles and their liver. We store it as glycogen. People may or may not have heard of that, probably don't need to fully remember that. But those they're our stores for our performance for our race. We want to have those stores as high as possible for the type of event that we are about to endure. So once again, for a half marathon, we're not going to need those fully topped up because I say only, but you're only running for like two hours or two and a half, three hours. Um, so you you won't need that full amount, or one and a half to you know, three hours. I should I should include everyone here. Uh but yeah, so it's it's a shorter duration, so you don't need them fully saturated, but having them significantly topped up is really gonna help your performance.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Yep. Sorry, can I just how? Like, how is it gonna help? Like obviously we use glucose for energy, right? And so they're in the muscles, they're gonna replenish a bit better in the moments of energy being expended as we run.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, what the research, so as you run, and especially for more of that steady state stuff compared to you know, uh CrossFit or you know, there's more sprint interval time. Yes, exactly, high intensity. You're going to be using up those glycogen stores. Okay, so we're going to be using them to fuel our performance for that run. Obviously, you're going to be having your pre and your intra running stuff too, but it sounds really strange, but the research shows that the more that we can actually have those stores topped up, and the more that we can sustain those stores topped up, the better we're going to perform. So, what I mean by that is if you can do your carbohydrate load, saturate the muscles and liver, and then you're having your intra, your pre and intra race, then you're preventing yourself from using those stores. You're going to be using them a bit, okay, but the more that we can keep them topped up from saturating with our carb load and eating pre-anduring our race, the more that we are going to sustain our performance.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Okay. So then we can push the threshold that we're running out a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

Exactly. Exactly. So what uh is is used more commonly is preventing hitting a wall. You know, people will find that as those glycogen stores deplete, performance drops with it. So if we can keep those stores topped up, then we can prevent ourselves from quote unquote hitting a wall and and feel like you can sustain your performance. You know, that feeling that you get at the start of the race, be like, yeah, I'm so good, like how good I'm buzzing. It's essentially helping you maintain that the whole way.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

It's like it's like you're putting tank uh fuel in the tank whilst you're driving.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's starting with that full tank and it's it's then topping the tank up as you go.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Interesting. Because I remember listening and I'm I've nerded out on this stuff, but um, some of the elite iron men have got their gut so well trained that they're actually accessing theoretically more carbohydrates than what an average person would during their race. And so they're consuming, and I've just looked it up, 90 to 120 grams an hour, upwards of 150 grams per hour in their race.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Tour de France athletes, yeah, really push that theory, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Which is wild. So, you know, they're just they're like getting high off.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

It's half a load of bread for their per hour.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Mid-race while they're burning 300, 400 watts.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

My goodness. Yeah, it's when you put it in that perspective, right? It it it really is pretty wild. And it it gives us an understanding of you know where these elite guys are at. And it's not that we need to feel that pressure, but it's just to understand like you can really do yourself a favor. And it's quite funny working, particularly in rugby and with rugby guys, is a lot of them actually hold a lot of mass, body mass, and so they're trying to cut weight all the time, and they end up underfueled before their performances and they get cramped and they break down. And it's probably one of the major things that people underestimate when they cramp is they go, Oh, my hydration. How do carbs play a role in cramp? If you can give us a little high-level summary of cramp in its complex way. So, say if someone's underfueled carbohydrate-wise, is cramping something they'll probably experience?

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Cramping from our current understanding is often due to the neuromuscular fatigue, which you would know a lot about, um, and often very little to do with dietary input.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Wow. It can be write that down. Everybody listen to that. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

It's quite uh interesting. So that's it. Often you'll hear people saying that you should increase your sodium uh intake or your electrolyte intake, maybe your fluid, maybe a carbohydrate. But to our understanding to date, it's often very unlikely. It can be, but very unlikely, and more so like I want to say 80% of the time, due to neuromuscular fatigue. So basically, where you're undertrained for that scenario. So, say, for example, actually, you know what was an interesting scenario that I had. I um did a presentation last year, and this guy came up to me at the end and he said, Oh, um, I did a triathlon recently, and I don't understand. I practiced the same nutrition, same um, you know, training, everything like that, same intensities. And, you know, when I when I raced, that was the only time that I cramped. And I was like, right. And I said, Was there anything? So it was during his cycling, uh, cycle leg, bike leg. Um, I said, Was there anything different with the cycle leg to the to your training? And he goes, Oh, yeah, like it was a bit more hilly. And I said, There you go. I said, Because you're using different muscles, muscles at a different impulse rate.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Yes, different intensity, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Yes, exactly. Those muscles fatigued during your race, whereas previously you were practicing on the flat, so it's like that different. You yeah, you'll explain this better than I will, but it's that the different intensity of those muscle groups. Is that right in saying that? Right, that is causing that fatigue because it's it's the nervous system firing to those muscles to then tell the muscles to engage. Okay, and so it's that it's that firing process that's um getting fatigued, and so you'll see often that I think football players are a great example of this because they do they have their off-season and on-season, right? They're they're in season at the start of season, they will start, they will cramp so much. And then towards the back end of season, you won't see them cramping at all.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Yeah, it's half as bad.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Yeah, and you're like, why is that? Oh, it's just because their nervous system and their you know, um, neurons the tolerance of it, yeah, collectively has has adapted, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

It's really, it's really interesting. Like I find I struggle with cramp when I and I know it's when I've probably drunk too much coffee, and it's not because I'm dehydrated, it's generally because I feel like I'm wired, yeah. Like neurally like a cat in a hot tin roof. I'm like, cut down the coffee, man. So and then you know, I can give you exercises right now that you'll cramp within the first five seconds of doing it.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Nutritionally, you're outstanding, maybe, and you're well hydrated, it's got nothing to do with the diet, but I cramp.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

People are like, what should I take? I'm like, nothing.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

Well, actually, pickle juice.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Well, pickle juice helps the cramp.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Yeah, do you know how it helps?

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Tell us.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

It distracts the nervous system. Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 40:41

So, so placebo, and like this is you know, we shouldn't ignore placebo, but in Well, it's an average, what, 30% effect placebo. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Pretty powerful drug.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

So placebo is a very powerful drug. Um, but exactly. So when people report feeling like their cramps have gone away due to having a power raid or electrolyte mixture or whatever, it's likely due to placebo. Which is fascinating, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:10

So to take that away from all these people.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

Yeah, I know. Save your money. Um but the the the pickle juice, so it's pickle juice and then hot shots, which are like um are really spicy. Um and then I think they're more so in America. I don't know if they're here yet.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

That's interesting, haven't it?

SPEAKER_02 41:28

But yeah, so what you can do is you can actually rinse your mouth with pickle juice. You can swallow it if you want to, but you get similar outcomes if you're rinsing it for 10 to 15 seconds. Um, but there's basically it'll hit a nerve at the back of your throat, and then that will actually it's like if anyone's tried pickle juice, it's not delicious, it's not nice. Um, and so, but because of the shock to the nervous system, it actually distracts it, and so it will actually take away, or usually, um, not always, but take away the cramping because the nervous system firing.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

We've used it for years with the rugby guys, and it does, it works. Um we've even done like cups of salt, like not just raw salt, but like salt in water. Just chuck it in your mouth, swill it around, spit it out. Yeah, and it's just the they pull the face neurally, your cranial nerves all scrunch up, and it's just like, what are you done?

SPEAKER_03 42:18

Yeah, carry on, mate.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

You're not cramping. So it worked. Literally, which is you know, it's true. And I think people will probably find that with they'll be running, so if they can get their hands on pickle juice. Um, you can actually buy them in little canisters.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Yeah, and even in um, yeah, like little uh bottles, but then also in gels now.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

They're in gels.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Oh wow, yeah, I know. Just don't get your gels mixed up. Five Ks in smacking your pickle juice. Oh that'll be a bit unpleasant.

SPEAKER_03 42:42

That would be rough, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Um, okay, so that's that's really interesting. So the so the marathon people, you've got to you actually got to concentrate. And right now, hopefully you're listening to this a few days out, go to the shops, get your shit together. Yeah, some carbs and you're gonna have to consume some carbs for two days for no other reason than we want you to run well and feel good.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Yeah, yeah, exactly. If you're cramping during your race, it's very likely that you have undertrained either for that volume or that intensity.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Yeah. Um, and so less to do with the nutrition diet stuff, probably more to do with what you've exposed yourself to.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

Exactly. And we can talk about hydration and electrolyte requirements shortly, but it's in so much research, like very, like, very unlikely due to that. Um, and very likely due to yeah, that that training. So I would say know that it's that. You might want to slow down, you might want to, you know, like uh calm that nervous system for a little bit. Um, and then yeah, you might want to have that that pickle juice shot with you just in case.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

With the cramping. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

If you're prone to cramping, but if you're not, some people just don't cramp. That's what they are.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

They're not going hard enough. Um, all right. So then um we've spoken about the pre you know race day, card blood. On the race day, the morning off.

SPEAKER_02 44:03

Sorry, can I go back to the carb load?

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Yeah, so let's say they're racing Saturday, we we're saying Thursday, Friday.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Yeah.

Hydration Rules During The Carb Load

SPEAKER_02 44:10

So we've talked about the carb load requiring H12 grams per kilo body weight of carbs the day or two prior to your race. You can use MyFitnessPal or something like that to figure out what that looks like for you. The thing I really want to hone in on, and this is the part that a lot of people mess up, is the hydration component. So every one gram of carbohydrate that we store, we store 2.7 mils of water with it. So people don't need to remember that exact value, but know that every time you're trying to store carbs, we need to keep on top of our hydration because otherwise the body will pull water from other places, blood, brain, things like that. And that's where people feel quite sluggish, fatigued, have a headache. Um, after doing a carb load, you're laughing. You've heard this before.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

No, I'm just laughing because people go, Oh mate, I don't eat carbs and I feel so fresh, and I don't get that lethargic slump later in the day. If I have carbs at lunch, I get really tired. Yeah. Maybe, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

Maybe you're just not drinking enough water.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

Yeah, yep. So, and that's very common too. Let's talk about that for another time. Um, but yeah, so what the research roughly suggests is aiming for 50 mils per kilo of body weight of water per day. So for our for a 60 kilo person, three litres. Yeah. Okay. Um it's quite a bit. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

So six, you know, bottles of water.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

It's it's quite go to the survey, get the three for one special twice. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Or a tap, either way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

Well, we're lucky in Brisbane, we can actually drink. This is true. This is true.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

This is true. It's a privilege. Um, but yeah, so it's a it's a fair amount of water. Um, but make sure you're doing it each day of your carb load. And you know, if you're bad at drinking water, do it more prior to like the days. A couple days before, yeah. Yeah, you want to keep on top of that hydration for a while.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

How do I know I'm hydrated enough? Like, obviously, if we can measure it, it's great.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

Great because you're saying urine, pale to a clear yellow.

unknown 46:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

Is your urine a pale to a clear yellow? Thirst receptors are also a good indicator. If you're thirsty, you're likely needing more water. But um, and often probably hit that point of dehydration if you are thirsty at that point. But a lot of people aren't in touch with it, so I will always say with the urine, pale to a clear yellow. Um there was another point I was gonna say to that. But yes, overall make sure you're you're keeping on top of that as well prior to your race.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Yeah, okay. It's very I didn't even think of that, but um, obviously critical. All right, so we've got the carbs sorted day or two before the race. We've got the water and the hydration sorted. Um, do we need to be thinking salts or that sort of thing in in the pre-day or two?

SPEAKER_02 47:02

No, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

Okay, cool. Morning of. And I this is actually people are like, oh, you're gonna do the Gold Coast round? I'm like, no. I actually don't like any of the these running races. Like, if I want to run a long way, I'll just go run a long way.

SPEAKER_03 47:13

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

That's a Karen thing.

SPEAKER_03 47:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

I've got no nothing against anyone that wants to go and do these races. It's just a me thing, but the main reason is you gotta get down the Gold Coast and sit in the traffic for freaking four hours on Friday. Kieran thing again. Um, and then two, you've got to wake up at like 3:30 to get to the start line at six because the crowds getting in are crazy. Now that's part of the fun. That's part of the fun, and you get really hyped up, and um, you know, that's its own thing, but that's also a major factor when someone is trying to nutritionally prepare themselves because in their training they've gone to run club at 6 a.m. on Saturday for the last 12, 24 weeks, and it's been really easy to wake up at 5:15, smack the overnight oats, have my banana, drive in and you know, have some dates in the car because uh not dates, uh sultanas in there in the car, because Hannah said a couple of episodes ago. Um, so I've done that, but now I've got to drive at well, wake up at 3:30.

SPEAKER_05 48:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

I've got to get somewhere, park, probably walk 4K to try and get to the start line in and amongst thousands of other people. I'm not gonna have this beautiful, you know, 30-minute pre-race window to get the right nutrition in. What am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_02 48:40

So

Race Morning Plan Without Surprises

SPEAKER_02 48:41

the morning of you're right, it's it's different. And my client framed this really well the other day, and I think we should, you know, keep this trajectory going, but have dress rehearsals. She's actually brilliant. It was it was so good. She did a video on Instagram and she practiced her hair, she practiced her belt, she practiced her outfit. Because, like you're right, there's a lot of different factors that affect the quality of your run. Um, but yes, so I'm gonna I'm gonna coin that from her. Um you want to have practiced your morning strategy, your race day strategy, a couple of times as well. Same thing. Those gut upsets are very likely to upset uh to hold you back from your performance. So it's very important that we are practicing that so then you're not getting any surprises on race day. Um but if I were to give a general overview of what that morning looks like, um we first and foremost want to start with a carbohydrate meal. If you haven't practiced with anything, don't do it. But um, or just have a little bit. Um, but usually what I'll say is if like they can get in, you know, around 0.5 grams per kilo body weight of carbs uh prior to their race. So same thing if you're a but ideally, you know, 0.5 to 1, depending on like, you know, if you're doing a marathon, you want to get closer. Um yeah, so that's you know, for a 60 kilo person, 30 to 60 grams of carbohydrates prior to that race.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

And something again, that's quite a fair amount, you know, it's two bananas minimum.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So it's it's quite a lot. So you kind of want to start with that um yeah, that morning. So maybe you're having a couple of pieces of toast or crumpets with honey or um cereal with you know a smaller amount of milk or something like that to get those carbohydrates in. Um, don't worry about your protein, fat, and avoid fibre because those can all upset your tummy as well. Yeah. So we're not having any of those. Um and then just before you start, you might want to do another little tough-up of those carbohydrates. So that's when you're having, like you said, the sultanas um or another gel or a couple of lily steaks just prior the 15 to 20 minutes prior, because that's gonna help more so with that um, you know, initial spike and sugar hit and standing at the start line and off you go, and you run your first K 20 seconds faster than you probably should have, and you're going, Oh my god, what am I gonna do? Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

So yeah, it's fueled for that appropriately.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that morning of it's more so topping up what you've lost in the liver overnight and making sure you're not hungry for your race. Um, and yeah, that that one just beforehand is more that sugar spike.

SPEAKER_03 51:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

So should I keep going with all the other all the other sodium fluid and yeah, well, exactly that's that's where I was gonna go next is caffeine, coffee, caffeine gums, how much should I have? What do I do? I heard some crazy stuff the other day, but I won't bring it up yet.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Oh, I'm so um, so yeah, going to the hydration side of things though, with the carbohydrates, I do just want to make sure that we are keeping on top of that throughout the morning as well. And there are hyperhydration protocols and things like that that you know more experienced athletes might want to look into. Um, but generally speaking, I would just say make sure you're sipping throughout the morning to make sure as we're having those carbs, storing with it, and then also preventing the dehydration during your race. Um, and once again, if you're an athlete who hasn't done a lot of gut training and hasn't practiced with a lot of gels or fluid during your race, I would highly recommend really optimizing that carb load and that pre-race nutrition because that's when you're you know not likely to get tummy upsets. Um, and it's hopefully going to help to support your performance um for that race if you haven't had those other um intra-race strategies. So that's that caffeine.

Caffeine Dosing And When To Use It

SPEAKER_02 52:52

I love caffeine, but don't we all? Um but for endurance athletes, there's definitely less of a benefit compared to strength athletes.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

Okay, so you're thinking about endurance, you know, we want that high puff effect, you want that uh decreasing perceived effort effect, you want that decreased perceived pain effect, but you don't want the effects of like that intensity and things like that. Because as you said, if you're having a whole heap of caffeine prior to your race, you go out hard and you die towards the back end, yeah, you know, so you do want to actually keep yourself quite conservative from that start line, right? What the research suggests is that we have one to three milligrams per kilo of body weight of caffeine prior to your race. The timing prior to the race really does depend on the type of caffeine. But once again, for a 60 kilo person, we're looking at 60 milligrams to 180 milligrams of caffeine. So 60 milligrams I want to say a coffee, but it it does vary too much, so I can't say coffee and don't want to. Wow, good, very good memory. Um, so I actually don't recommend coffee as a dosing protocol. Okay, but rather if someone has practiced with their coffee prayer, they enjoy having their coffee prayer, yeah, maybe it helps to move their vows prior to their race to get that out of the way. Um it's it's great in that scenario. Yeah. But if you haven't practiced, if you're a highly anxious person prior to a race, um, you know, those nerves and that adrenaline's already going to be quite high. Maybe you don't want to be pushing too much caffeine prior. Um, but yeah, otherwise, maybe you're if you are wanting to have that caffeine and you want are wanting to have them one to three milligrams, uh, you can have it in a nodo form or a pre-workout form um because you can dose those. Otherwise, the caffeine gum, which absorbs the caffeine gum or like reveal strips, um, absorb underneath your tongue, yep, and they will act a lot faster.

SPEAKER_04 55:10

Okay, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

So, and then they also help to avoid GI upset as well. So you can have them 15 to 20 minutes prior to your race and and still get that benefit. Uh, but if you're having the no dos or the pre-workout, um, you want to have that around 40 to 60 minutes prior to your race.

SPEAKER_01 55:29

Intra-race caffeine. Say I do get anxious.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

And I'm worried I'm gonna have too much and I get really nervous.

SPEAKER_03 55:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

Let's get the start line out the way. I'm running the marathon. Great. Gonna be there a while. Is there a point to going, okay, 30 minutes, then I'm gonna have a piece of gum. You can run with that or a strip of some kind. Is that is that is that something that people you recommend people do?

SPEAKER_02 55:52

Absolutely. So that's the that's the other thing that the research recommends is having it around three-quarters of the way through. So then it helps with that back end of the race. But if you want to have a little bit, maybe halfway through, and then a little bit more at that three-quarter of the way mark, happy days. And same thing, we want to have that one to three milligrams. Um, and that could come. I probably wouldn't go Revis strips or gum for the race gum. I wouldn't want you to choke on it, Revy strip. It's hard because it's already quite a tacky um strip.

SPEAKER_04 56:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

And when you've got a dry mouth from your race, it's really hard to kind of absorb and get out of the way. So I recommend people get the caffeine gels. Okay. Um, and so you'll have your non-caffeine gels at the start, and then you'll have your caffeine gels towards the end. Yeah, halfway through quarters through.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Okay, makes sense. Um, it's something I've actually, you know, hypothesized for if I were to work in elite rugby and go and dabble in that. I've actually recommended to a lot of the guys that are in our program now and they do it. Um, at Jeeps. And I say the day before the game, try not to have any, if not limited down to like one shot of coffee or try not to have any the day before. And deal with just deal with the headache. Enjoy the deep sleep you're gonna get that night. It's almost like a deload. Yeah. So then you're gonna really enjoy those receptors going nuts when you do put it back in the system. Yeah, is that something you'd recommend people maybe consider if they want to get the mass maximum leverage?

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Caffeine tolerance is really interesting in terms of like I can see from the bef the benefit of the of um recovery, that nervous system recovery, the sleep recovery, you know, things like that. But caffeine tolerance it takes a long time to kind of build up that tolerance. So if and if you feel like you don't get much of a response to caffeine, I would probably just say on the day have more. Um if you're wanting that response.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

Yep. Um rather than do a delay, it doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_02 58:00

Probably not for a day, but maybe like over a couple of weeks, absolutely, because you do, you do build up that tolerance, yeah, and that and the body can deload from that tolerance. Um, but what this is actually really interesting too. But there was a study done where they found that even if people didn't feel the benefit of the caffeine, they were still able to get a lot of the benefits of the caffeine.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

Wow, okay. So that's psychologically reporting the benefit as opposed to physiologically expressing the benefit.

SPEAKER_02 58:31

So it's saying that they are still going to physiologically express it, yeah. Even if they don't psychologically feel it, yes.

SPEAKER_03 58:37

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 58:38

Yeah. So, like, probably more so, you know, those jitters, you know, and the obvious caffeine symptoms of people feeling that high fab effect and the jitters and everything like that. A lot of people will say, actually, a lot of ADHD people say this. Um, because like caffeine is a stimulant, it actually helps to manage their ADHD, um, and they don't get that high pop effect from it, they actually just feel chill, actually come to more of a neutral level. But uh yeah, people do still get the muscular benefits from caffeine um when having even if they don't feel those uh side effects, we could say. Does that make sense? Yeah, like it is and stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:24

Totally. Um that's interesting. Okay, so let's move from caffeine, sodium, another big one.

Sodium Myths Cramp And Pickle Juice

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Where are we at? With do we worry about it? Like, is it something that people overdo?

SPEAKER_02 59:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 59:43

If we were to start somewhere, yes, yes, yes, yes. That's like it's actually silly. It's actually silly how much the average person overdoes the sodium thing.

SPEAKER_03 59:56

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 59:56

With with all the marketing and everything like that, it's it's insane. Um, and I don't know if it's cheap for companies to make or something, but yeah, it's it's very much overdone. Um, and I was actually listening to a podcast on the way here um to re-familiarise myself with caffeine with sorry, sodium protocols. But if there's somewhere that you go to to learn more deeply about it, because obviously we won't do a deep dive today, um, to learn more deeply about sodium requirements for athletes, it is Alan McCubbin. Alan McCubbin has done a lot of research in this space and he's got a podcast called Fueling Endurance. Um, and he talks a lot about his his research. So he he is one of the um most renowned people in this space who study electrolyte requirements for athletes, and he has produced many papers alongside of his teams. Um, and he also has a podcast on it, and he will say time and time again how little we actually need it, and how there was actually a study done recently where they found that when people exercised for five hours and they lost all their sodium, lost all their fluid requirements, things like that. Um and then they they had a group that had their placebo, their um supplement that didn't have any sodium, and the group that did have the sodium, and they found the same same effects. They found that there was no additional benefits to heart rate, body temperature, perceived effort, performance when having sodium versus not for five hours, which is insane. In saying that though, there are still people who might feel that benefit of sodium, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

The best pill is placebo.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:49

Exactly, exactly. And if you feel that benefit and you've practiced with it, I'm not opposed to you taking it's not gonna kill you, it's not gonna make you worse, it's not gonna kill you. There's also other benefits in terms of increasing that thirst response. So if people are more thirsty, they're likely to drink more water. Um, once again, hopefully they practice with it and and and they're doing more of a trickle effect as opposed to you know a big gulp and trying to get their gut to absorb that. But if they have practiced with it, um and they feel better. Sorry, where am I at?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:29

Sorry, they've practiced with it, they like it. Yeah, they think they're gonna need it for their race. They're really worried now that it may or may not even have an effect.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

So if they've taken, go with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:41

100%, 100%. And if it's gonna help you drink more water, there's so much research to show that that adequate hydration effect is gonna be beneficial.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

Yeah. Okay, so that will help to and so maybe if they're having this carbide, get some sodium with them.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:56

And it's gonna promote the water, which is then gonna help support the carb load. And voila, we found a place for sodium.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:03

Exactly, exactly. And same for that intra-ray stuff. Yeah, you know, if you're having those so salt tablets, if you've got the salt in the um gels, the salt drinks in the aid stations, you know, if that's gonna help you drink more fluid, that will help to decrease cold body temperature, that will help to decrease perceived effort, that will help to cut slow down the heart rate. You know, that there's a lot of benefits to the hydration side of things. So, generally speaking, with sodium, there's that hyperhydration effect that once again, for more high-level athletes or people who have wanting to look into that, they can having it prior to the race and having that extra water load with it can be beneficial for the race in terms of preventing dehydration. But intra half marathon athletes, you're definitely not gonna need any sodium tablets if you've got the sodium in your gels and then then a little bit at the aid stations, you'll be fine. Full marathon athletes, you might feel better. I have had anecdotally a lot of clients report feeling a lot better with having that sodium tablet intra race. So as long as they're having the water with the sodium tablet as they race, um, and it's not extreme amounts, like a lot of sodium tablets, like you can get the topin ones and they're 600 milligrams, I think precision are 250 milligrams. Say you had one of them at two-thirds and one of them at you know, the three quarters. The one-third, yeah. Sorry, what am I saying? Yeah, one third and two-thirds of the way through the race, and then you're having you know, your cup of water with it and washing it down and keeping on top of that uh water, then you'll be good to go. Yeah, but just be wary of having too much salt, not enough water, and then that upsetting your tummy because that can have a lot of effects too.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

Yeah, I've also heard of people midway through or late stages of a marathon grabbing a pinch of salt, putting it under their tongue. It stopped me from feeling I felt amazing after. I'm like, hmm, sounds very much like a pickle juice type neurodistraction scenario, which I actually think it is. We've used salt ourselves when people are cramping and it helps. Um it's not the sodium, it's more the nervous system response, um, which is obviously we have the luxury of knowing now. I think 10 years ago we didn't actually know what pickle juice did, we just knew it worked.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

And that's the really interesting part of it all.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:25

I know I'm so excited for 10 years' time, or like as science progresses with the electrolytes, with all of these things, because things I'm saying now might not even be relevant in ten years' time.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:35

That's funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:36

It's it's to what we know now.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:38

The beauty of science is it's a verb, it's a verb, it's not a thing that sits still.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:43

So absolutely I love the name of your business.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:46

Yeah, the voice nailed that when they started. I can't get over it. Um okay, post race, a thousand beers.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:57

Um, yeah, so do we want to talk? About gels intra race, or we've kind of mostly covered that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:03

Yeah, I feel like with the gut and the sodium and the caffeine, yeah, that's kind of what they're selling, right? It's glucose, it's caffeine, it's salt. Yeah, is anything else that comes in a gel?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:13

Yeah, it's it's probably more like what we're aiming for. But if I were to speak generally just to that, I would just say for half marathon athletes, once again, hopefully you've practiced this prior, but you are aiming for 30 to 60 grams of carbs per hour.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:28

For a full marathon, you're aiming for 60 to 90 grams of carbs per hour. So just so that we know that what maybe it's not something you're applying this weekend, but for the future races, that's our goal to once again support their performance. Okay. But yes, going into post-race.

Post Race Recovery And Final Tips

SPEAKER_02 1:06:45

Did you say beers before? Do you know what? There's Ben Desra and Chris Erwin did a study on this in Gold Coast. That's what it means. Um to see if like beers helped. I think it was like the same amount as water post-race or something like that. And they found that it did. It was it was I don't know the quantities and yeah, we'll see the quality of the study, but hey, psychologically, I'm sure they help. It's yeah, it's it's quite funny. Um, but yeah, psychologically for sure. Um, but in terms of post-race protocol, look, there are a couple of things that uh can be helpful to consider, especially if you are doing lots of races, um, or if you've got a lot of training coming coming up afterwards. There is a beautiful window um after we finish training or exercise or a race, uh, a 30 minutes post the exercise where insulin peaks. Insulin is a storage hormone and he can actually help to speed up this storage of uh carbohydrates post-race. So if you're wanting to prevent that feeling of like, you know, being like laying down all day after your race, um, I would recommend getting a serving or a couple of serves of carbohydrates in within that half an hour. Um, you don't have to, you know, you're trickling the carbs throughout the day and it'll gradually store, but uh it can help. And also keep in mind that it's not gonna be magical if you haven't raced under those intensities or volumes before. Obviously, you're still gonna be quite exhausted. But as a little buffer, um, I always recommend, yeah, like the Power Aid or Rockabee or a drink that you can get in that's gonna have, yeah, you know, say 30 grams of carbs, um, which is what a power raid will have rough a bit under, but roughly um within that 30 minutes to peak that storage uh and help to support that perform, help to support that recovery. Um, then from there throughout the day, once again, topping up those carbohydrates, we've used up a lot of those stores. So if we're wanting to feel good for the rest of the day, topping them back up can help. Uh the power aid's also gonna be good from the hydration perspective. Once again, dehydration is gonna have a lot of effects on how lethargic you feel that day, as we've discussed. So if you can keep on top of that, uh water replenishment and once again having a look at your urine, what colour is it? Yeah, is it that pale to a clear yellow? Oh, it's not okay, cool. Let's keep that water coming in to support that that hydration. Um, sodium and stuff, yeah, you probably won't need after a race, um, not even after a marrow. Um, but yeah, and then from there, go and enjoy the beers, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:39

And then they'll taste they'll taste amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:41

Well done, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:43

Um, excellent. So in terms of anything helping with the DOMS and the muscle soreness the next day, yeah. Is there anything nutritionally we can try and achieve?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:55

So then exactly after that, try and have a balanced meal, try and get your protein in. Um and and and you know, keeping those meals after that, so that that protein can obviously help with that tissue repair and supporting that recovery that next day. Um, the hydration is also gonna help with preventing those domes that next day. But honestly, there's there was uh a new study done where they found that magnesium supplementation prior to your training, I think it was 300 to 500 milligrams of magnesium. You'd probably want to go with the glycinate, um, two hours prior to your event can actually help with preventing tissue damage and muscle um damage. Yeah. And so um, yeah, that's it, that's a newer study that was done, and to what level that will help for the for the average Joe, um, who knows? But yeah, it's there's layers, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

There's layers. I mean, from a from a training perspective, if you haven't done the prep, if you've only done 20 K's, 30 K's is your biggest distance, and suddenly you've got to put on an extra 12. You're gonna be sore.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:05

You're gonna be sore.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:06

Eat and supplement how you m might want, but it's not gonna stop you from being pretty cooked. Yeah. And if you run faster than you've trained at, or even if you've done the required distance, you're still gonna be sore. So I think the other big one is the psychological element of oh, I ran a marathon yesterday, I must be sore. You might be okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:24

Yeah. Last year I went horse riding after my marathon.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:28

On the same day?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:29

Um, no, the next day. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

That's impressive.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:32

It was, yeah. My mum came too, she was sore. That was poor mum, but amazing. Depends on your, you know, experience with it, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:40

Nice. Okay. And then final note, final message for anyone. Given your experience, you've done a few. Um, and I think you've done them in a probably decent nature, for lack of a better term. It's not this like you're not a competitive athlete, and I think that's probably who we're speaking to right now is the person who's recreationally doing it for the first time. Yeah. Um final message to them.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:02

Final message.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:05

Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:06

Maybe it'll just be a couple of quick tips. Yeah, let's do that. If that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:09

Your top five.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:10

Top five, make sure you carbload.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:12

Um, and through that water strategy with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:15

Two, if you're doing a marathon, this is a bit different, but I would actually recommend like if you've got a holy bit gels, putting half in the Ziploc bag and getting a spectator to give it to you halfway through, so then you're not having to carry them with you your whole race, because that can be quite a lot of weight, quite a lot of you know, baggage stuff like that. Um three, the pinch cup trick. Have you heard of this? Sammy, um, my friend and colleague, um, she uh blew up on Instagram with this trick. Um, but it's basically where when you go to the aid station, so that you're not pouring the water all over you, um, and you're able to actually consume the water, um, pinching the cup. So you put the palm of your hand against one side, your fingers against the other side, you really squeeze it and then you put it right up to your mouth and you actually suck it like it's a straw. So then it's like not going everywhere. Um, and then you know, maybe you're tiffing the other half over you to also help with the body cooling and and helping you feel better.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:17

I like that. So that's three.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:19

That's three. Um, I said a few on my Instagram the other day, I forget what else I said. Don't try anything new. Don't try to really ones. Don't, yeah. Whatever you see here today, other people do. Don't try anything you haven't practiced yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:38

Um surely the fifth one is just have a good time.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:41

Oh, yeah, sorry. That's it. So used to being so serious with athletes. Have a great time. Honestly, marathons can be stressful, and oh yeah, just as a general thing, don't go out too hard. Yeah, don't go out too hard. I've done that the first two years I did that, and I didn't perform anywhere near as well. The first 5k I shot myself, and then you're you know, dying for the rest of the race. Go out easier and then gradually ramp your K's up from there, and then you feel good because you're getting faster and faster.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:11

Yeah, you come out with a wet sail. I love it. Yeah, Hannah. Fantastic. I think that's the perfect dose of deep, interesting information, but not getting carried away. And I I think for anyone listening, probably not feeling overwhelmed. Um, so yeah, I appreciate you banging it up the M1 and sharing all this detail with us. And uh hopefully when everyone goes down the M1, um, they can actually just enjoy their race and feel equipped nutritionally um to go and actually make the most of it. So, yeah, fantastic. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:43

My absolute pleasure, and yeah, feel free to message me if you have any other questions, guys. Absolutely. More than happy to help.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:50

Anna Mills 1N. Once again, been a pleasure. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:54

Thank you so much, Karen.

Wrap Up And Where To Find Us

SPEAKER_01 1:14:56

Thanks for tuning in to the Science of Fitness podcast. Be sure to check us out across all forms of social media and subscribe to this channel if you want to stay up to date to the latest episodes and any other anecdotes with which we might share across these video platforms. If you ever find yourself locally in Brisbane, be sure to drop into one of our facilities or down on the Gold Coast in Burley. You can also check us out at scienceoffitness.com.au and see all things relating to what we offer in programming and performance, whether it's online or in person.