Authentic marketing doesn't POKE pain points... Do this instead (with messaging expert Joanna Ingram)

There’s not just one way to sell. There’s not just one way to market. But if you’ve ever felt turned off by pushy tactics or if traditional marketing strategies make you want to crawl under your desk, this episode is a breath of fresh air. We're talking Feminine Messaging, Client Attraction & Selling Without the Ick.

Today I’m joined by messaging expert and all-around brilliant woman, Joanna Ingram, for a real chat about what it means to market your business with integrity and attract clients you actually want to work with..

Joanna left a 20+ year career in advertising and now helps entrepreneurs use feminine messaging to call in soul-aligned clients, without burning themselves out or resorting to agitating pain points.

This one’s for the entrepreneurs who want ease, resonance, and results (without sacrificing your values).

We talk about:

• Why it's important to notice when certain clients drain your energy (and how to shift who you attract)
• Why agitating pain points can backfire and what to do instead
• The shift from “convincing” to calling in
• Why working in integrity actually leads to better clients, better results, and a business you aren't tempted to burn to the ground.

“We want to work with clients who… are fully invested and trust that you're the most perfect fit to help them… we call that desire-based marketing.” – Joanna Ingram

🎧 Listen if you’re:

• Burnt out from “doing what works” but hating every second of it
• Ready to attract higher quality clients (that you actually want to work with)
• Looking for messaging that reflects your values and gets real results
• Tired of bro-marketing and ready for an aligned alternative

Resources + Links:

• Follow Joanna on Instagram → @iamjo.ingram
• Joanna’s Website → www.joannaingram.link/website
• Listen to Joanna’s podcast → Goals With Soul
• Keep your eyes peeled for my upcoming guest episode on her show!

✨Tap here to watch a FREE masterclass on “How To Get Clients From Instagram (without wasting hours glued to your phone)"

https://parkdale-republic.lpages.co/evergreen-webinar-registration/

Tap here to get your free Posts That Sell Template (This caption got us 10 sales calls in 3 hours)

https://parkdale-republic.lpages.co/10-sales-calls-new

🎉 Tap here to work with Jenna inside Magic Marketing Machine (or MMM+)!

https://www.magicmarketingmachine.com

Music by Jordan Wood

Hosted by Jenna Harding (Warriner), Creator of Magic Marketing Machine

Transcript

There's not just one way to market your business. There's not just one way to sell things, but man, I've talked to a lot of small business owners who aren't putting themselves out there, and because of that, aren't attracting new clients into their business because of misconceptions around what it means to sell.

Maybe somebody sold to you one time in a way that just didn't feel good. Maybe you saw someone's messaging one time and it actually made you feel worse about yourself than better. Listen, friend, that is one way to do it. It is not the way to do it. And I talk to my clients about this all the time because a lot of people are drawn to me,  if I may, because of my feminine marketing tactics.

And in that I don't just mean like. I'm girly. I mean, in the world of masculine versus feminine marketing, I lean to feminine and teach feminine, which is a lot less pushy, a lot less Mm, what people usually would refer to as salesy. Okay. So I brought you someone, guys, I brought us a special guest today because I was just sitting on a panel recently with this beautiful woman, Joanna Ingram, who is a messaging strategist, and I was.

Just blown away by how much we aligned and how wonderfully, eloquently she spoke about messaging and what I would call feminine messaging and messaging in a way that feels good. And she was talking on this panel and was just like, she was just responding to one question about pushing pain points and other options you have instead of pushing pain points in your marketing and how it can actually make your whole business thrive.

Without further ado, Joanna, can you talk to my people about that? I would love to. Thanks for inviting me, Jenna. Sitting on that panel was really, really fun. I really vibed with so much you said. So I'm just thrilled to share a little bit more of this with your audience and your people because you and I are completely on the same page when it comes to this idea of icky marketing strategies versus feminine and in integrity marketing strategies.

And you know, I jumped out of.  20 plus years in corporate leapt into the coaching world and just start to push, push, push, push, you know?  And well, I think it was only six or eight months into my business where I was on the floor literally, as well as figuratively, I just couldn't do it. And that was because so much of my business was based on pushing and that masculine drive rather than feminine flow.

Many of us look at that from top to bottom of our businesses. But today I wanna talk about it in reference specifically to creating content and of course the marketing and what we put out there. Because when we deploy that masculine push that drive energy into our content and the way we write it, not only doesn't really help us feel good, but here's, here's  C doesn't even attract. 

With work, which is kind of how I've made my whole business these days. You know, I shifted massively and nowadays my business is centered around helping people to attract the clients they really wanna work with, rather than just the idea of attracting clients. Because you know, you only have to be in this business a year or two before you quickly realize that. 

Keep attracting people into your world and into your business, who drain your energy, who you end up overdelivery for, and they may not even get the best possible results. It isn't long before you kind of wanna burn your business to the ground, or you take a pause or you stop creating content, right? Yeah.

You just don't do it anymore. And I think part of that is you need to feel like you have  responsibility for the people you're bringing in. Because some people are sitting out there right now and they go, oh, well, everyone who needs my services is like this. And everyone's like that.

Hold the phone. There's so many people out there that need you. There's so many humans, different personality types, different kinds of people. And if you're attracting one kind of person or if you're working with one kind of person and they're.  Burning you out. Something about the type of person that you're working with,  is burning you out.

Maybe it doesn't mean you need to quit, maybe you just need to tweak your messaging so you attract a different kind of person. This blows people's minds a lot of the time, and it's really hard to see from when you're in it because when you're in it, you're in it.  You've just hit the nail on the head.  Now, you know, I come at this  kind of three prong messaging. 

Yeah, we can talk about all three, but I really wanna get across the message that when you shift one, you kind of shift them all. You know, they're beautifully interlinked. And when you are busy serving people that are completely draining your energy, you do have to do some work behind the scenes to kind of elevate your own frequency.

So the message that you're putting out is coming with ease rather than a chat gt,  you know, made up thing. However, I'm gonna share some things that anybody can do right now to shift not only their energy, but their messaging and their content, so that what they're gonna do is actually attract people they wanna work with.

And yeah, if, if someone was listening to this who's saying, well, that's a well and good, but right now I'd be happy just to attract a client. It'll do that too. But here's the good news. It'll track clients that. On your wavelength and really value your transformational work. And that's something like, I'm just gonna repeat that.

You wanna work with clients who value your transformational work, not someone who thinks that you are super duper inspiring, but never buys, not somebody that wants the outcome, but isn't willing to follow your process. We're looking for people that are fully invested and trust that you are the most perfect fit to help them take that journey from their pain points.

That point A to this result, the outcome, what they want and what they need, which is point B. Your offer sits in the middle. You can see it as a bridge. You can see it as a journey on a vehicle. The clear point here is that's what we're marketing and where we don't have either. We don't have clarity on what exactly their struggles are and what exactly they really want, which happens even with seasoned.

Entrepreneurs, particularly when you are kind of conceiving new messages, but also you can get to the place where  we are just not dialing up the piece that makes the most difference. And I know that when we chatted on that panel, Jenna, the thing that I, I saw you like.  Almost wave at me through the screen was when I started talking about agitating pain points, because I see this all the time and like clearly you do as well.

And this is where we're taught that in order to get someone to wanna work with us, we've gotta tell them over and over and over all the things that are really keeping me unstuck. I see you. This is so hard. You're really struggling with that. You feel like this, this isn't working, and hey, you know, if you don't make changes, it's never gonna work.

And we see a lot of this marketing online. I call it bro marketing. It's just something like really unfeminine, almost a little bit icky about it. But the thing that really kind of seals the deal when it comes to not wanting to do this anymore is when you realize.  If you keep agitating the pain points, what you're really doing is talking to somebody whose sole identity is stuck with those as the description.

So is that person really ready for change? How much effort is it gonna take from you? To get them that transformation from getting them onto a call, convincing them that the cost is reasonable, they're gonna have lots of money. Objections to then getting them actually to show up on time having done the homework, if fully engaged, fully feeling that high vibration wanting to do it. 

No, in simple terms, I've been there. I know that you can get clients through the door by pulling them through. You can get them the result by pulling them over the finish line. Not only is that completely soul destroying for you because it's a real mismatch in energy, but actually you'll find that those clients, even with that small result, will quickly go back before and  consultants.

Our goal is always to create a self-sufficiency in our clients. We don't want codependent relationships. We wanna create an amazing ability in our clients to get the results, even if they continue to work with us on the next big thing and the next big thing, we're creating a self-led empowered approach to our specialism in our clients. 

Listen, listen, listen listeners, I just edit. I'm gonna edit out what I just said so you don't get to hear it. 'cause I keep trying to make examples that are not good and so Joe's gonna just give you an example that is actually good. There you go. No, you gave No, it was helpful because as you were like playing around with examples, it reminded me.

Something that I think illustrates this so perfectly, like when I first started my business leapt out of, um, 20 years in advertising. My first coaching business was all about productivity and accountability and CEO strategies was what I used to do. And I used to put messaging out there that would say things like, oh my God, there's too much weak.

For the amount of work that you've got, you can't seem to bring to life your ideas. You're finding it really hard. And my, my thought here was having done some ideal client analysis, was that there are a lot of entrepreneurs out there who are just getting started that can't seem to ever complete anything.

They never seem to get anything over the finish line. They always get stuck.  I felt really badly for them. You know, as someone that feels that I'm pretty productive, I'm a complete finisher, I'm a real motivator. Seemed like a perfect match. Ying yang, and off I went. And indeed I started getting clients and they were beautiful human beings.

However, that we weren't a great match because. They were exactly who I said they were. They could never finish anything. And so I would be like, Hey, let's get this opera creation underway this week. And they'd turn up a week later and I go, how'd you get on? Oh, I didn't do it. I got to, it got too hard. And I was like, um, okay, well we can do it together.

Hang on. Even better. I'll do it for you. I know exactly what it needs to look like. I'll just do it for you, and I've got this overdelivery mechanism. Where I so wanted them to get the result in the six weeks that I'd promised that we'd work together, that I would just give and give and give and look.

They loved it until, you know, I checked back with them three months later. Six months later, they'd gone back to jobs. They were still bumbling along. They just were never going to change simply because I had done something for them for six weeks. Fast forward after my complete burnout, rejigged my whole business, zeroed in on my gift, realized that that was a slight off topic, but as a five one reflector for anyone that knows human design, I started learning a lot more about re what my gifts are, my zone of genius.

And I was like, right. This is what I'm about. I'm gonna only help relatively established, only occasionally newbies working with them to really elevate their messaging so they attract those players they most wanna work with. And at that point,  instead of talking about, here's all your problems, you can't do it.

You can't do it, what? And I'm gonna 

information. 

Can be brilliant if we use it in terms of a struggle, but only as an identifier. So for example, I could say, you know, are you struggling to write content that. 

I've just named your problem in one. If you are my ideal client, that's you're constantly writing content, but yet it's not connecting with someone that the sorts of clients that you can charge more, you can work with them longer, you can make more impact, you can get more transformation. All the things that you really wanna do  instead, you might be stuck doing one-off sessions, short packages.

People that don't wanna show up, people that don't wanna pay, maybe they've defaulted on their payments. I mean, the list. It's very long for how that might actually look to you in your business. So after that hook,  then what we need to do is understand a whole lot about what they really want, what that transformation is.

This, I call it desire based marketing. So it's like what is it that they really want? And I break this doubt. When I work with my clients into three areas to give us loads, loads of ideas, what do they wanna feel? What do, what do they wanna think and say, and what do they wanna do differently? And oftentimes we'll make that list from a struggle perspective, because it's something about human minds, right?

It's really easy to think, oh, this is hard. I can't do that. I feel this, this, I feel frustrated and irritable. We can create all of these and then we can transform them into the desire. Opposites. So you know, if somebody says, you know, I'm frustrated because I'm working with clients that aren't really following my process and they're not getting the best results.

So, you know, I want these great testimonials. I want my clients to like get these outstanding results. But I don't get a lot of those, you know, they make small shifts, but I really want the big ones that, you know, stand out in my market.  Well, I already did that without even trying. I already started flipping it.

This is what I really want.  I want clients that get the biggest, most outstanding results that I know my transformation of work is capable of creating. You know, I want to work with these clients who don't quibble when I give my prices and get excited at the idea of working with me. 

And when we start to really call to our clients it in saying to them, would you like to be able to create content with ease and have it go out, um, on ads organically and the right kind of people are just showing up in your world. We don't care about vanity metrics anymore. We care about real connection.

We care about revenue, we care about impact. Is, is it a problem if we don't get a lot of,  or is it a bigger problem if people aren't reading our content and then dropping into our dms? Like, what is the, what is it you really want? And so when you start changing your mindset and calling to those people, literally it's calling. 

It shifts  everything about how you create content from the way that you think of your clients through to the actual results you get in terms of people showing up in your inbox and say, oh, you know, that's you. You really read my mind. That's exactly what I want. If that's the work you do, then. Let's talk, right?

We should have a conversation. I have a presentation that I give where it's uh, there's a messaging section and it's like, that's how you know that you did it, is you start getting responses from people that are like, wow. It's like, you're in my head. Oh, I needed to hear this today. Those are signs that your messaging and for us, your nurture content is bang on.

And so I have a screenshot of an email that I received one time that says, Jenna, with respect, get outta my head, you  know?  I'm like, there you go. That's like your bingo moment that you got it. Go back and look at that piece of content. What did that say? What piece of it got into their head? You know?

Absolutely. I mean, and when we talk about integrity, because I think that's, that's a really important pillar as well. I just wanted to bring this into the mix, is a calling to what people really wanna create is really talking to them with respect and really seeing them as whole, as not broken, as somebody that has just got a specific challenge that you are best placed to help them solve.

And I think when we get stuck in agitation messaging and struggle messaging, it's like telling someone you, you are stuck. You're not very good at this. You haven't really got this. When truthfully, and I know this from, you know, my own experience with my own clients is that many of us work with equally as dynamic, brilliant visionary. 

Clients as we ourselves are when we work with other people, and there's that meeting of minds, that thought partnership in our work together that when you know that someone can see what it is you really wanna achieve, we just feel so much trust. It's like, oh yeah, this person knows where I wanna get to.

So I trust that they have the solution and the steps and the processes, the frameworks that are actually gonna create the outcome that I'm after here. Don't underestimate or under convey the transformational quality of your work. And don't be afraid to say, these are the sorts of transformations that my clients experience this, or this is the transformation that I myself have experienced.

And these. Don't even have to be tangible. You know, I work with a lot of clients whose work is, you know, in the spiritual space.  The sorts of outcomes they get are not as tangible as saying mm-hmm $10,000 a month, which, you know, is one of these offers that so many in our industry seems to get super excited by.

It's like your first six figure year, you know, 10 KA month. And of course if your clients are getting those results, then it's. It's lovely to say that this is some of the outcomes, but equally we can talk about a dramatic shift in how somebody feels about how somebody shows up about how they act or behave differently.

Knowing that. The source of client that we may want to attract, understands the value of that and how different their life would be with those subtle, but very, very important shifts. Absolutely. One thing that I was immediately drawn to in the way that you talk about all of this, I always talk about it like.

You can do A or you can do B, you can do the masculine thing or you can do the feminine thing. You can do the pain points or you can not, and like, just so you know, you have other options. They both work, but you get to do the one that you like best and you've actually found a side effect other than not feeling like you're in integrity for doing the former, which.

I was just like, wow. I think that's the part that blew my mind. It's this added level of, it's also speaking to who you attract, which also talk about an intangible outcome, speaks to how much you actually like showing up to work and doing the job, right, which then speaks to how much money you're gonna make and how long you're gonna stay in the game.

 Okay, Jo Ingram, how does somebody know it's the right time to call you, and how do they find you online? Right. Question. People generally know that.  Because they are not resonating with the clients that they really want to reach, and likely they're ready for an up level. I see this all the time. People get a little bored or even frustrated by their offers, the way they deliver them, the way their marketing set out, the types of clients that are coming into their world, and they say, you know what?

It's. Time's completely up level. I wanna charge more. I wanna do deeper work. I wanna get into a place where my business is on the next level. What I do is I work with them to elevate their ideal client, their messaging, most often their offers too, because.  Clients is from first contact to finalize contract and beyond.

Messaging doesn't stop the minute someone reads a piece of content, right? If you don't have the right promise and the right backend offer to actually bring in the right people to high level offers and, and more revenue, then clearly you're not gonna your business. So if any of those is somebody that's listening, then get in touch and let's chat.

Let's see if we're a good fit. You can find me over on Instagram. You find me at  I'm Jo  Ingram. Similarly, Joanna Ingram, over on LinkedIn, or you can head to my website, which is joanna ingram  link  slash website. Awesome.  Thank you. Oh, sorry. Can I just add one more thing?  Yeah.  I forgot to mention Jenna and I can do this live right now, but I really want you to come onto my podcast because my, my audience, I gotta say, are really video shy, but I suspect there are a few there who wanna and need the support.

And I would love for you to share all of your expertise with my audience 'cause my podcast is called Goals with Soul. It's currently a top 2% global podcast. If you wanna hear a little bit more about what I teach, I share everything on my podcast. , goals with soul, as well as having outstanding guests look out for Jenna in the near future. 

Awesome. And we will of course, link all of that down below this show