Enemas & Liver Health with Liz Coetzee

What if the strongest liver detox isn’t a cleanse, but a calendar of small, repeatable choices? We sat down with Liz to unpack coffee enemas, traditional liver and gallbladder flushes, and the everyday habits that actually move the needle on metabolic health. The big reveal: early-stage fatty liver is reversible, and you don’t need a risky protocol to start turning things around.

We dive into the difference between glucose and fructose, how frequent snacking keeps insulin elevated, and why insulin resistance sits at the heart of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. Liz breaks down the evidence and the hype around coffee enemas, including claims about glutathione activity, and explains why exercise, sleep, sauna, and cruciferous vegetables are a smarter way to support antioxidant defenses. You’ll learn gentle options that encourage bile flow—like warm water with lemon or apple cider vinegar—and how malic acid from apples can soften the terrain without the drama of a flush.

From a practical toolkit to a broader mindset, we explore high-quality protein for cysteine, glycine, and glutamate, choosing better oils, and building fasting windows that restore insulin sensitivity. We also bring in the Traditional Chinese Medicine view of the liver as a system for blood and qi, connecting green foods, sour and bitter flavors, and emotional hygiene to better liver function and deeper sleep. No scare tactics, no silver bullets—just a clear path away from sugar shocks, artificial sweeteners, and ultra-processed traps, toward sustainable habits that your liver will thank you for.

If this helped you rethink “detox,” share the episode with a friend, subscribe for more science-backed conversations, and leave a review telling us which habit you’ll change first.

Transcript

Meet Liz And Set The Stage

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Alright, ladies and gentlemen, I have Liz Kutir. Kutsi. Kutsi. You South Africans challenge me so much.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

It's like the person the book on your shelf. I was wondering if you'd noticed that. Is it the same name? Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Is that like Smith in South Africa?

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Like common? Not quite that it's common. It's a common surname.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Kutsi.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Kutsi.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Kutsi.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

In Afrikaans it's kutsia.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Kutsiya. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

English just more kutsi.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Awesome. Letting Americans get a taste of South Africa. It's good because we don't know much about South Africans. And I think when I first came to Taiwan, it was like, I never knew white people could be cool until I met South Africans.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Because we have a bit of African in us.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

It could be 100%.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Well, it's better than the the comment I usually get from Taiwanese people, and they're like, what? South Africa? Which one? Which country? I'm like, no, it's it's South Africa. It's the country at the bottom. And then they're like, oh, and then the next question is like, oh, we didn't know that there are white people in Africa, white people in South Africa. I'm like, yeah. And I usually say, well, I used to be black. My mom put me in the sun for too long and I got bleached. You know, gotta have fun with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Oh Lord. Um cool.

From Fasting To Liver Detox

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

So the last time you were here, we focused heavily on autophagy, fasting, apoptosis, and different methods of fasting and the benefits of like four and five days, the effects of four and five versus one and two days. But today we got a new approach, a new topic. We're focusing primarily on well, I guess, liver detoxes, liver cleansing, and also enemas as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

And you want to start with something?

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Yeah, and they they are both related to gut health, and gut health is also related to liver health. You know, it's it's all a system, it's not all separate, two separate organs. But yeah, before we go on, you know, whatever we talk about, people need to do their own research and decide where they are on the spectrum of trying out new methods, whether it's scientifically proven or not, you know, people still have to decide what they're gonna, you know, do with their bodies. So I'm just mostly speaking from my own experience over the past 20 plus years that I started with fasting and coffee enemas and liver cleansers as well. So it's it can be a controversial topic, but again, people need to follow their own instincts and their own advice and do their own research before they just follow everything that we're gonna talk about. So that's just a short disclaimer I need to talk about.

Disclaimers And Safety First

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah, because well, I'll just study this. So I use Chat GPT quite a bit. I'm required to for work. And man, when I ask ChatGPT a question about enemas, boy, it's like, don't do this, consult a physician, this is dangerous. And I'll be like, well, am I supposed to be on my left side or my right side? And it's like just kind of like don't refuse to engage me. And I'm like, wow, who's putting money in Chat GBT's pocket?

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Yeah, I have all this stuff here in front of me as well that's like against what we're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Yeah.

Coffee Enemas: Claims And Critiques

SPEAKER_00 3:35

So yeah, I mean, things that are not necessarily proven scientifically doesn't mean it doesn't work, right? We know that by now. Like, is there any proof for ghosts? No, but do they exist? I think so. I do too, but yeah, and we know that mainstream mainstream medicine is not going to approve of number one, things that are not tested. Okay, I I understand that. And number two, maybe these things work, and they're not gonna, you know, approve of that. I'll just jump right into like kind of alternative theories where where things have worked for people, and we are gonna talk about it, and it's been debunked by Western medicine. So for instance, coffee enemas were included in the Merck Manuals, which is the medicine manuals that students study in Merck manuals until the beginning of the 70s. It was in the study, it was in the curriculum. Wow. Coffee enemas.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

My aunt, who's a nurse, said she supported my use of them and encouraged my mom to try.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Yeah. So I think once you decide you want to try it and you know how it works and why you are doing it, then you have to know how to do it safely. For anything that works for you, it can be work, it can work for you or against you. Anything good, anything, right? It's not the thing, it's not the alcohol, it's not the vitamin, it's it's how you use it and why you use it. And it's the same for coffee enemies as well. So knowing the why and knowing the how, once you're clear on that, then you can go ahead and try it out. And there are some people that shouldn't do it, that it's it's too risky for people to do it. So you need to know if you fall into a contraindication group or not. So that's I think.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

What kind of people should not do it?

SPEAKER_00 5:57

I I'd say people with with liver prop problems like fibrosis or cirrhosis or liver cancer. I mean, those are serious, serious liver conditions. And working with coffee enemas, you're going to disrupt the like enzyme function and the the function of the liver. So I wouldn't I wouldn't play around with that.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

And yeah, and I think you stated this, but there's no scientific evidence to support the benefits of coffee enemas.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

No, no, it's all anecdote anecdotal. It it started in the late 19th century, early 20, 20th century, 21st century, sorry, with especially Dr. Gerson. So he started to make it really popular because he was using it on himself. So he started getting a lot of migraines, like serious migraines as a medical doctor. And he started experimenting with diet and coffee enemas, raw juices, and some supplements for his migraines. And his fellow doctors were like mocking him for even trying to.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Just like my friends do for doing coffee enemies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

They were mocking him, just trying to use diet to change his condition. Not even coffee enemies. Just just diet.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Okay, so he was working, he was trying out this on himself, and with great success. His migraines went away. So it was for before it was the Gerson therapy, it was known as the migraine diet.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Whoa. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

So it's basically a vegan diet with lots of raw food, lots of juices, fresh, freshly pressed juices, and also coffee enemas. So he tried everything on himself first before he even started with, you know, experimenting with patients. And then there was a there was a experiment that his fellow doctors asked him to try this on their client on their patients with tuberculosis. And it was something like 447 patients took part in this study, and 445 out of the 447, 7 patients uh had significant improvement with this diet and with coffee enemies. So it was a massive success. Like his his doctors, his fellow doctors started to ask him to take their to take on his patients. This is before he started with cancer patients.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

So he started with turber tuberculosis. Tuberculosis.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah, tuberculosis. And uh so there was this massive uh you know success in this study. And so I mean that I don't know if you could say that's anecdotal or if it's like actual proof that it worked. And it's hard to say whether it was just the diet or the coffee animas or both.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

It's unclear w exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Statistics would be evidence, right? It's crazy. That's like a 98% success rate.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

And then he went on and tried this diet on cancer patients.

Glutathione Myths And Mechanisms

SPEAKER_01 9:36

But people are always doing double blind studies, yeah, right? Yeah. Couldn't people do a double blind study on enemas? Give them like a placebo, or like one group gets like caffeine-free coffee enema. Yes. One gets a Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah. And it's not just the caffeine in the coffee, it's the pulmatic acid as well. That stimulates the that claim. So this is one of the claims of coffee enemas that the pulmatic acid in the coffee that gets absorbed through the colon stimulates the glutathione by 600%. So while the coffee is in held in the colon and it gets absorbed in the liver, the production of the glutathione spikes to 600%. You hold it for 12 to 15 minutes, which gives the blood like three or four times the time to flow through the liver, right? It's about every three to four minutes, it flows through the liver, it gets cleansed with this high level of glutathione. Once the coffee goes out, the production of the glutathione drops back.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

The glutathione is produced in the liver. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Yeah. So the glutathione is. Let me just great.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

So I've been saying it right to people. People ask me what it does, and I think I've been hitting it on the tail. I just said that the coffee in your intestines, but that would be wrong. It's the coffee in your colon.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Gets absorbed in the colours. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

And then what is it that it makes?

SPEAKER_00 11:16

So it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Or the what from the coffee?

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Pulmatic acid.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Pulmatic acid.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Pulmetic acid. Pulmetic acid.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Okay. It which is in the coffee.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

That causes the production of glutathione in the liver. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

So what so what they say. So glutathione is called the master antioxidant in the liver. And it's made up of three amino acids. So amino acids are the building blocks for protein, right? So that's why we'll get to that later. So protein is really important for good protein is really important for your liver.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

You can also get that from broccoli, right? Yes. Yes. Are there any other foods that have a lot of glutathione in them?

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Cruciferous vegetables, yes. So other cruciferous vegetables. Okay. Like broccoli, kale, brussels sprouts.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Real quick, I'm sorry, this is total sidetrack. A lot, there's there's like a war against kale. There's like all the people that believe in it religiously. It's great for you. And then there's this whole other people like kale's tail terrible for you, and that was a lie.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Have you heard any of that?

SPEAKER_00 12:29

I've heard of that. That yeah, I don't know too much about that. I know the war on kale is like it can cause the war on kale.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

That's what that's what we keep ourselves busy. War on kale, not the war on terror or drugs.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

But I always believed kale was a superfood.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

I I still use it as a superfood.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

When I see it, I buy it because I love it. I do too. Okay, good. I do too.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Use it in smoothies. Yeah. I know you have to be careful if you're prone to kidney stunts. That it can that that's the that's the argument against kale. Is it kidding? That's the argument. Yeah. It can lead to kidney stuns. I don't know. That's when you get into the nitty-gritty of stuff. I'm like, eat green vegetables, number one. Eat dark green leafy vegetables. That's really good for your liver. So I'm not gonna have a bucket of kale every day.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

But I'm gonna have some of it whenever I can find it. You can't even find it that often. I'll have some in my green smoothie, you know, if I have it. Or kale chips. Have you ever made that?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Like in the oven?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Oh, it's so good.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

I think I have by accident.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Really?

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Because it gets really crispy, right? It's really crispy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Yeah. Definitely. It's so good.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah. Love it. Huh. Never thought about doing it on purpose. I always did it on accident.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Yeah, with a little bit of olive oil and some salt. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

It's really quick too, like just a few minutes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

You can you can scorch it really quickly. So you have to be very careful. But like a whole bucket would make like a small bowl of chips. So it's easy to just eat it all.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Yeah, I accidentally made some really good potato chips the other day.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Oh, accidentally.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Well, like I didn't expect them to come out so good. I was like, man, I gotta chop up another one. That was just too good.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

So the argument against that.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

So the argument for the Stay a little closer to that if you can. All good.

Traditional Liver Flushes And Risks

SPEAKER_00 14:33

So the argument for that rise of glutathione is that while it's in, while you hold it for 12 minutes, your liver goes through the uh your blood goes through the liver. It's almost like a blood dialysis. Like it cleanses your blood at this high level of glutathione. And then it, you know, when the coffee goes out, the production goes back to normal. That's the that's the argument for. So the argument against that, so that's what you're gonna find if you just Google it in mainstream, is that that you can't stimulate glutathione from the outside, like from the outside, from the colon into the liver. They say that glutathione is happens on a cellular level, it happens in the cell. So and that cannot be stimulated from the outside. That's the argument against doing coffee enemas.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Okay. Like cannot exogenously be stimulated.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

It must somehow take place internally on its own. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah. And it happens anyway. Like we can't. Of course, there are things that you can take to stimulate your glutathione.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Like glutathione?

SPEAKER_00 15:49

You can take glutathione. Yes. And you can take and and through diet and through exercise. Okay. Exercise stimulates glutathione.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Like autophagy as well.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Yes. Deep sleep.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

When you sleep very, very deeply, control your stress. Stress and alcohol depletes glutathione. Yeah. So if you have bad sleep, you're gonna deplete your glutathione. Deplete everything, right? Yes. Yeah. So sleep and stress. I mean it's sleep, stress, and alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that is the argument against it, is it it can't be stimulated externally.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

So I'm wondering if I got one thing wrong. So is a does a coffee enema detox your liver or detox your blood?

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Liver.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

It does detox your liver. Yeah. Okay, because you're saying the blood circulates through the liver.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

So once the once the coffee is once the coffee is absorbed in the liver, it stimulates the glutathione, which helps the production of the liver, and then that in return s purifies the blood.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

So it purifies the blood that's in the liver or the blood in the hole?

SPEAKER_00 17:03

That's flowing through the liver, yes. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Okay, and that detoxes the liver.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Okay. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

So yeah. So the liver glutathione, what it does in our bodies, it neutralizes free radicals. So our free radicals are produced anyway by metabolic functions. It's uh regardless of you are if you're adding more toxins or harmful chemicals to your body. Through our metabol metabolic functions, we we create metabolic stress in the cells. So the glutathione neutralizes the free radicals.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Which cause oxidative damage to our cells. Yes. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Yeah, exactly. So it helps the enzymes process toxins for excretion. So in the in the liver, we have the liver is amazing, right? It has over 500 functions. And it's super complicated, the the detox process in the liver. So it has phase one and phase two in the in the liver. So what it does, it it separates the glutathione, also helps to see what is useful. Everything that gets filtered through the blood, through, through the liver, the blood gets filtered through the liver. Whatever toxins get taken out, or old blood cells that is dead, are all stored in the liver. So through these, through the glutathione and through the detoxing process of the liver, it separates the harmful things in the liver and it sees what can still be used. So for instance, old blood cells, it would separate the iron in the liver. And it's like, oh okay, we can use that again in somewhere in the body. And then the hemoglobin, like the red, what makes blood red, that gets excreted. That's why your poop is brown. It's always brown. It should be.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

One thing we can't get in Taiwan that I want so bad.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

You can.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

You can. Well, I didn't know about this, so I'll have to talk about it after the podcast, huh?

SPEAKER_00 19:54

There is a doctor.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Okay. So, like vitamin drips and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah. Whoa. Okay, that's definitely NAD drips.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

I V drips.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

What about NAD?

SPEAKER_00 20:05

What is NAD?

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Oh man. N A D If I try to speak, I'll probably speak wrong. Yeah, I don't even know if I can say it off the top of my head. Let me pull it up real quick. NAD and NMN. It's like reversing aging.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Let me. Oh my gosh, yeah. And now you can get NAD drips in Taiwan. Take it in supplement for.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

I think it's called NAD plus even. Nicotinamide, adenonine, dinonuc dinucleotide. It's vital coenzyme in every living cell, crucial for converting food into energy, repairing DNA, and regulating cellular functions. But it declines with age, and it's really good for anti-aging and metabolic health benefits. It acts as an electron shuttle, NAD plus or NADH, for energy production and serves as a substrate for enzymes involved in DNA repair, epigenetics, stress response. So it's very important for metabolism, aging, and disease. It's just been getting more and more and more popular.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Maybe this doctor has it in our clinic.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Maybe. Yeah. I've heard a lot of talk about you can take it in a pill form, but just every anything taken in a pill form, you're just always wondering like, hmm, how much of the how much of this am I getting? How much of this is real? I don't know. Just so I still take supplements, but I'm always sketched out about them.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Yeah. You you take supplements every day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, me too. On and off.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Fish oil is probably the one I trust the most because I can see what it is. And if I bite into it, it tastes terrible.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yeah, just to go back to the glutathione, you know what I also found is that this I do think it's a myth that glutathione gets increased by 600% because there was no study done. There was some obscure animal study long time ago about glutathione production, but there's never been any human studies done on this, on coffee NMS and glutathione. So what the another critique against it is that glutathione activity gets does get increased through the coffee NMS, but not the glutathione production itself. The activity, so there's a separation between glutathione activity and glutathione levels. It's not the same. So this thing about the 680, 680. Costs you only 680. 600% increase. I think that that is a bit, you know, it sounds a bit over the top. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

And that and that's a claim. That's a claim.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

It's a claim, yeah. I think we should look at things that can help the liver more natural.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

So you know, and that is maybe more useful on a daily basis than doing a coffee enema.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Sure. Because that's the primary reason a person's gonna do a coffee enema is to detox the liver.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

See, there's no one, it's not a silver bullet. Even even if all these claims are correct about coffee enemas, that it helps you to detox faster, it helps with pain relief and with bile flow. These are all kind of temporary benefits of coffee enemas, but it's not lasting.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

So I think that's why Dr. Gerson had some had success, the success that he had. It's true, but I I'm not sure if it's really lasting effects. And I think it's more beneficial to look at lasting things that you can do on a daily basis to help yourself have a healthy, healthy liver.

Sugar, Fructose, And Fatty Liver

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Sure. To bring up South Africa again, one of my coolest friends in Taiwan. We don't talk much anymore, but I remember him doing a liver detox, and it was something about consuming massive amounts of salt and water.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Is that the master cleanse?

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Master cleanse with cayenne pepper and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

I believe so. And I was never man enough to try it, and I never did.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

I don't think you should. Okay, good. Yeah, the master cleanse just seems so radical to me.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

What is it?

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Do you know it's it's a it's a huge amount of salt, you're right. And with with cayenne pepper, and I know there is a there's a res retreat facility in the south of Taiwan that's existed for many years, and they give people massive, massive amounts of salt and lemon water, and people have severe diarrhea and vomiting. Combined with fasting, and I just think it's yeah, I just think it's really radical, it's really extreme.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Huh.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

I I I wouldn't I wouldn't suggest that. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Well, what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Well the tradition the traditional, but you you I think I thought what you mentioned, the traditional liver cleanse that we're talking about with olive oil. Have you heard of that one?

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Vaguely.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

So it's ebbs and salts that you drink. That was made popular by Hilda Clark and what was his name? Maurice. And and Andrew Maurice. I don't know. So the traditional liver cleanse is when people combined with fasting, or you don't have to fast, you can fast on the day, is like drink a certain amount of Epsom salt, which is supposed to open up the bile ducts, and then you drink like half to a third cup of olive oil with grapefruit juice and chuck that down, and then you start releasing these bile stones or gallstones, gallbladder stones. I've done that, I've done that quite a few times.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

So so it does work and you support it?

SPEAKER_00 26:20

It it happens. I mean the stones get released the next day. You see all these tan colored kidney stones? No, no, gallbladder.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

So you have the liver, yeah, and then the gallbladder stores the bile that comes from the from the from the liver. Okay. So the gallbladder is the sac that just sits there next to the liver. And when you are eating greasy foods, it's releasing bile. All these toxins that we talk about before also get released through the bile. So when you're eating greasy foods, the bile helps to metabolize greasy foods and it gets released.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

The gallbladder plays a big role in helping metabolize. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

So a lot of people get their gallbladder removed. Because it has unhealthy eating habits. There's so many stones inside the gallbladder. It's a whole sack and it's just full of stones.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Is that the more vegetable oil foods you eat, the more stones you get in your gallbladder?

SPEAKER_00 27:24

I think it's just in general, like really unhealthy saturated fats, a lot of unsaturated fats, a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

So you're eating like French fries, McDonald's, and shit like that, you're gonna get a bunch of stones in your gallbladder. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

I don't know what else. So people in America should probably do it. Tons of people this one.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Yeah. Yeah, I guess just not just the US.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

I don't know. So that one, again, I've done that a couple of times. And then if you look at, you know, the evidence, again, no evidence whatsoever. And there's a lot of, you know, scientific claims that the stones apparently that comes out, it's just a mix of the oil and the bile that forms these little spongy things, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

So if somebody wants to try that, you know, you have to be in relatively good health to try anything. That's quite radical as well.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

And you don't know if you have stones in your gallbladder. So the risk is if you do have stones in your gallbladder, which you can release on a more gentle way with drinking apple, apple juice, or malic acid that's in apple, apples, and apple cider, apple cider vinegar. Apple cider vinegar, lemon.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

That would detox your gallbladder.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Yes. So it makes these stones soft. And that's a much more gentle way to release that. So if you do a gallbladder flush, like these traditional gallbladder flushes, that's risk, that's risky. Because if you do start to push out these stones in the gallbladder, it can get dislodged, it can get stuck and cause severe pain. Severe pain. And that's like a medical emergency.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

So I wouldn't play around with that if if you don't know that you are really healthy. And if you are really healthy, then you already have the methods of staying healthy.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

Yeah. Sounds like it's safer just to add some apple cider vinegar or apple juice to your diet.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Absolutely. So apple cider vinegar and lemon in the morning with warm water stimulates bile flow.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Nice. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

So first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, have a glass of warm water with apple cider vinegar or lemon.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

I just been throwing lemon and salt in the water every morning when I wake up.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Yeah. Yeah. That's brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Are you doing apple cider vinegar like after a big meal to help with digestion? I should do it before. Oh, really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

So it helps with spiking, spiking the insulin as well.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Oh, okay. That's so do it 30 minutes before. 30 minutes before you eat.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Before a meal.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Yeah, apple cider vinegar is great.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Yeah. Bad for your teeth, but good for you. Yeah. Yeah. So if we do want to detox the liver, how do we go about it?

Insulin Resistance And Fasting Basics

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Well, let's just maybe let's just talk about like how are we going to create a good liver in the first place, not to detox the liver. The liver detoxes itself. That's its job.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

I think we all know how to toxify it.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

We know how to toxify it.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

You know. So maybe on in the long run, how do we not get it to be so overloaded and make its job a little bit easier?

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

So yeah, alcohol. I think that's the first culprit. It's just so hard on the liver.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

So difficult and so damaging. And I would say the second one is, you know, sugar, refined sugar, fructose and glucose. And that brings us to fatty liver disease, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. So the first culprit is is sugar. Refined, refined fructose, like table, table sugar. Right? So glucose and fractose are the two sugars that that greatly influence our you know everything, our metabolism and our energy levels and and the liver as well. So glucose is like what we get in in starches. In it's a long-chain uh sugar. And that can be used by any of our cells, can absorb glucose. Right? So we we release insulin. So insulin works with the absorption of glucose. That's how we get get it into the cells is through insulin. Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Which is produced by the pancreas? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Okay. Exactly. So insulin.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

I'm sorry, and insulin carries it's like the carrier, it carries the glucose to the cells.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

It it opens up like a glucose receptor. The insulin opens up the glucose receptor so it can be up the the sugar, the glucose can go into the cell and give us energy.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

And into the liver as well. We store we store sugar in the liver for about 24 hours. We have about 24 hours of sugar stored in the liver that is like a resource of energy. Okay. So when you're fasting, we first use that the sugar that's stored in the liver. So after 24 hours, that's depleted. And then it goes into our fat cells, and then we go into fasting ketosis.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

Ah, it really takes 24 hours for that to even begin.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Yeah. Yeah. So from 24 hours till about 30, 30 hours, we are switching from burning glucose as a source of energy to creating clean ketone bodies. Okay, so ketones are formed by the triglycerides, the fat cells in the liver, and also amino, amino acids in the in this, in the muscles. So from 24 hours till about 30 hours, we lose a little bit of protein. We lose a little bit of muscle, not much. And then after that, we are in full ketosis. Then we are getting it from the fat cells. And it's a really good source for our brain. Like it's the ketones from the fat cells. Yeah. It's like switching, it's called metabolic flexibility. It's like a hybrid car. So you're switching from fuel burning to a hybrid car, which is a much cleaner fuel. So the brain functions really well on ketones. You can take it too, orally.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Yeah, I've taken it before a long, long time ago. Coconut oil or MCT oil can stimulate the production of those, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, getting a bit off track. So liver. We are, yeah. So the liver Oh, you were talking about fructose. So fructose and glucose. So glucose, yes, fine. So fructose is not so easily absorbed by by cells. It is it's absorbed in the liver.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Fructose is the bad one, like high fructose corn syrup, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:27

High fructose corn syrup, exactly. Exactly. So it's in everything.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

It's made from corn, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Yeah. It's made from corn. So it's in everything.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

It's like hydrogenated vegetable oil, like that. And high fructose corn syrup are like the worst things we can ingest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

It's I think that is it's just pushed into the food food market in America because, you know, in the 60s and 70s, they're like, oh, we need to produce food for the world. The world is gonna starve. And there's this massive increase of production in corn and other grains as well. They're like, oh wow, where's this going now? Okay, we're gonna push this into the food system in them in America. And everything got supersized. I mean, if you look at portion sizes from the 60s until now.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Yeah. I mean, it's just like a lot of it started with the war, right? With uh soldiers fighting and then the marketing companies kind of pushing all these new foods onto single moms.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

I believe so. That's like when a lot of like box cereal and canned foods.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

All the convenient foods.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Yeah, frozen dinners and all that kind of stuff came out. Got it. I think around the 40s, 50s, 60s. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Oh my goodness. Yeah, so you have the fructose, and so the liver can just take so much of the fats. So there's a process in the liver called a lipogeneogenesis when it's forming new fat cells. Okay. Okay, so it's forming triglycerides, so it's forming those little fat cells, and it starts to store it in the liver. So the liver gets all these puffy, puffy, blown-up cells in the liver, and that's the start of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Okay.

Snacking Habits And Practical Fixes

SPEAKER_00 36:27

So as if you if you not address that is reversible.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

It's 100% reversible. Just by diet, removing sugar and carbohydrates, like simple carbohydrates, not complex carbohydrates. Complex carbohydrates are the good ones, like sweet potato, pumpkin. Those are you can you can get potatoes too? White potatoes is a bit on the lower end. They change very quickly into glucose. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

So that'd be closer to a simple carbohydrate.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Yeah. You can still have a, you know, it's sweet, sweet potatoes, I think, is still in that category. Okay. When you have the simple carbohydrates, that's your fructose. That's the that's your flour. Fro all the flour products. That's your bread and noodles. Pizza, pizza, noodles, yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Bread and noodles stuff that have flour in them.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

And sugar.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

And sugar. Those are the simple ones.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Fruit juices. Fruit juices.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Those are simple because they go through a shorter process.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

It's a shorter process. It's a short chain carbohydrate.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

I got you.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

The other one's long chain. So it takes longer to get you know absorbed.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Your body has to like break it down through a process. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

So that's reversible. That early stage of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Brain fire.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Yeah. Just by diet and intermittent fasting. Because it's it's also about the insulin. The insulin plays a massive role in fatty liver disease. Okay. So if you're becoming insulin resistant, your body's just producing insulin and insulin, and it needs more and more insulin. You have so much sugar coming in for the fructose and the glucose that the insulin just can't keep up. You need more insulin to get this absorb into the cells. And what happens in type 2 diabetes, you're just not making enough insulin to absorb all these sugars into the cells and into the liver.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

There's too much sugar coming in, which is overwhelming your system, and you can't produce enough insulin fast enough to store the glucose.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

It can't go into the cells anymore. The cell is actually starving of energy. And there's all this like sugar running around in your flowing around in your bloodstream. But it can't get into the insulin is not enough to open up these insulin receptors for the for the glucose or for the fructose to go in.

unknown 39:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

So that's why you have to inject the insulin. Yes. So that the glucose can get out of your blood and into your cells.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

That's stage one type one. Type one. Type two is still reversible. Right. Type two diabetes is not a big thing. Then your pancreas is like, I'm done. I'm retired. I'm not making any more for type one. Yes. Then you're injecting.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Okay. Type two you don't inject?

SPEAKER_00 39:38

No. You're on medication.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

You're on medication.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

And it's that's really manageable. It's really manageable with diet, exercise, and fasting.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Weight loss. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Herbs, Teas, And Safer Support

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Yes. So ty so excuse me. So you have to let's go back to the to the liver. Health, right? So not to get to that fatty liver disease, alcohol, okay. Protein, good protein. We need good sources of protein, right? So it's gonna help to feed the amino acids. So we already said amino acids in the liver helps to create ketone bodies that feed. So this is in a fasting state or in a diet, a diet ketosis or a fasting ketosis, you can create those ketone bodies. So protein is really good for the production of glutathione. Because glutathione is formed by three proteins, three different kinds of proteins. Three different kinds of amino acids. So we need we need good protein.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Do you know what they are?

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Which the protein or the amino acids. Let me say I do have them here. It's cysteine.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Glycine. Do you get in bone broth?

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Right. Glycine helps your body absorb collagen.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Yes. And it's really good for your gut health. Yeah. Really good for the colon.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

I thought about supplementing with that, but I do a lot of bone broth. I think I'll probably get enough.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Yeah. And glutamate.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Glutamates. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

There's 12 total, am I right? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

So let's just see.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

So eating getting enough protein, good protein, helps support your amino the amino acid profile of your liver. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

And that then supports the glutathione.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

So people who are eating heavy carbohydrate and low protein meals are most likely going to have an unhealthy liver.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Hi. Repeat that, please.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

People eating meals that are high carb, low protein. Yes. And obviously. And high sugar. Yeah, and carbs rich in flour. You're not gonna the likelihood of you having a healthy liver is gonna be very, very low.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

No. And not moving, having aciditary lifestyle.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Not moving properly. And so I mean, a lot of people eat eat that diet a lot. If you look at the American standard American diet, it's like high calories, low nutrients.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Right, right. Well, I think I do the exact opposite.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

You want high nutrients, low calories.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Yeah. One thing I didn't hear you bring up is artificial sweeteners.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

That's included.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Okay. I feel like that's gotta be huge.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

No. So if you if you want to avoid like sugary drinks, that's definitely something you have to avoid, any sugary drinks, including a lot of fruit juices.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Your body takes that as sugar as well. But also the artificial sweeteners, it contains aspartame.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Which is super harmful to the gut.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

It's like formal or it converts to formaldehyde in your gut. Yes. Right?

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

So I mean that's super harmful to the gut. And then again, gut health, if you if your gut biome is good and strong, you're not going to develop something like leaky gut syndrome. So when you have leaky gut, you you are getting more harmful pathogens and things going to the liver. That's making the liver's job even more difficult, on top of like having a fatty liver. So the gut health is again, that's really important. So these, you know, Coke Zero and those kind of things, nah.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

Yeah. So could that be a leading cause of like fatty liver disease too? Like overconsumption of things containing artificial sweeteners.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

I think it's not just one thing, right? Right. It's not just the artificial sweeteners.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

But you're kind of saying alcohol was one, a big one, the biggest one. Yeah. And then sugar.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Actually, what I've come across is like right now, 25% of Americans have fat non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Really?

SPEAKER_00 43:57

25%.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

One out of every four.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Some people say 30, but in general, I've come across like 25%. 25%. And then this is shocking. Like people who develop fatty liver disease from alcoholism, 5%.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

What?

SPEAKER_00 44:16

5%. Yes. So people are sicker from getting more sick from their diet than from alcohol. If you just look at fatty liver disease.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Yeah. It makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

25%. I mean, it's insane. It's crazy. And the scary thing is when children develop obesity, those fat cells stay the same. Even if they grow up and they lose like a bunch of weight, those fat cells don't change. They keep those fat cells.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Like under the age of 10 or 18 or just no.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Like fat little kids.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

I don't know if that's PC or not. Probably not. Probably not. But I mean it's the sad thing is you s you you keep that all your life. And that leads to so much. That's the thing in the liver. The build-up fat in the liver creates inflammation.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Throughout your whole body.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Firstly, in the liver. Just talking about the liver. So the fat cells that's kind of starting to like puff up in the liver creates inflammation.

SPEAKER_01 45:36

The fatty cells that start to puff up. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

So you get inflammation in the liver, that leads to hepatitis? A form? Hepatitis? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Really?

SPEAKER_00 45:49

It is it's got a specific name. Let me just get that.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Fatty liver disease can lead to hepatitis? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

So the next phase, the second phase of fatty lover, non-alcoholic fatty lover is hepatitis.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Whoa. If you don't take care of it.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

If you don't take care of it.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Where is it now? It's called, I can't remember the name. Mm-mm. Let me just see. Yeah. You know what?

SPEAKER_01 46:27

I gotta pee real quick. Just go ahead and find that right.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Yeah, this is really scary, you know, because when you when you when you just just the term non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, it doesn't sound so scary, but when you know how it can progress, it's it it's something you have to really like curb and reverse. And it's reversible. So it's called the second phase is called non-alcoholic, non-alcoholic state stato, st e a to stato, stato, hepatitis.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

And that's when you start getting injury to the liver cells. Inflammation. The inflammation is causing injury to the liver cells. Then you develop hepatitis.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

And then the next phase is fibrosis. So that's when the when when the liver is starting to repair itself because you can survive on like a third of your liver, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

The liver can repair itself. I heard that. A third.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

You can cut it in half, right? And it'll go.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

If two thirds of your liver is like removed, you can still live on a third of your liver. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 49:22

So the the the third stage of this disease, when the fibrosis is kicking in, it's scar tissue forming to like try to repair that inflammation. So the liver is quite, it's like a big sponge. So the scar tissue is starting to like harden the liver. And then cirrhosis is the final stage.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Whoa. So non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

And then non-alcoholic statohepatitis.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

And then fibrosis. Fibrosis. And then cirrhosis.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Cirrhosis.

unknown 50:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

And then liver cancer.

unknown 50:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

And then liver transplant. If you're lucky.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

I had a friend with cirrhosis a long time ago.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Yeah. I mean, you can get to this point also with alcohol, with alcoholism, right? Yeah. But yeah, you go through this as well with after cirrhosis is cancer, is that we said? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Maybe liver failure, probably, right?

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

Yeah. I I don't know if cirrhosis necessary turned into cancer, but not sure. So it's if you just think of like changing your diet and doing like intermittent fasting and regulate your insulin levels, right? Regulate your insulin levels. It's all about the insulin levels. And that depends on what you are eating.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

So having little snacks of various sugary substances throughout the day.

Cooking Oils, Bitter Foods, And Beets

SPEAKER_00 50:55

Any snacks. Any snacks. Even if you have a handful of nuts or a piece of dried fruit or whatever, a good snack throughout the day, you keep on spiking the insulin.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

So just snacking. Yes. Just snacking, period.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

So you need to have your regular meals at regular intervals.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Oh, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Any snacking. Because you you constantly spike your insulin.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

So something like cinnamon tea would help with that.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

Or apple cider vinegar. Yes. And these all bring your insulin levels back down, right?

SPEAKER_00 51:31

Your blood sugar, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

Blood sugar.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Fasting. Fasting make you makes you insulin sensitive again. So when you keep on spiking the insulin, you become insulin insensitive or insulin resistant. Right? So fasting brings you back down. Like when you fast, you just like zero, no insulin, boom, down. 24-hour fast. So you basically almost no insulin because you're just not eating.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

Right? And then when you start eating again, you break your fast, you just you eat something and your body just releases a little bit of insulin. You are sensitive again to insulin. So yes, diet, exercise, fasting.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

So for somebody with a really low body fat percentage, well, I guess like yourself, how do you how do you do a fast safely and I know we covered this last time, but in brief, safely and comfortably, how do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 52:30

I think for anyone who starts fasting, I wants to try it, hasn't done it.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Never done it. Not a lot of body fat.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

Okay, just ease into it. Don't go into a three-day fast right away.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Just try to do a 24 to 30 hour fast.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

Just do it 16-8.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Women in menopause, 14, 14 hours is more effective. Really? They found that with Dr. Dr. Volter Longo, they've done studies that the the 14-hour fasting window, 14, what is it, 14-8? No, what is it? How many hours?

SPEAKER_01 53:07

14, 16, 8, I'd be 1410.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Okay, so 14 hours they found more effective, especially women in the menopause. So 14 hours fasting, which is it's it's not a lot. It's not a lot. 14-hour fasting.

SPEAKER_01 53:29

Yeah, you just eat dinner and then have a little bit late breakfast.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

Yeah. So I think what's more important is like very gentle fasting and then don't snack. Just if you're gonna have two meals or three meals, that's fine. But just give your body that time where the insulin comes down before you have your next meal.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Then constantly like stimulating the insulin.

SPEAKER_01 53:55

I got in a bad habit of snacking at work because it's stressful. And then I sit in the office next to coworkers who are constantly snacking, and then like I'm like, yeah, I'm stressed and tired. Okay, I'll take some cranberries. All right, take some dark chocolate. But yeah, I did develop this terrible habit of snacking.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

I mean, that's good stuff. Cranberries and dark chocolate. But it's still snacking, right? It's still snacking.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

Yeah, it's still snacking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Yeah. I mean, I I do it too, out of boredom sometimes. Like something. I only do it out of like stress. Like grab a grab some nuts.

SPEAKER_01 54:26

Yeah. If a friend comes over and we're chilling, we tend to just bust out a bag of peanuts and sunflower seeds and seaweed and snacking that. It's healthy, but we're still snagging.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

Yeah, maybe get a stress bowl. Rather get a fidget spinner or some shit, huh?

SPEAKER_01 54:45

Yeah. That's the thing about sunflower seeds and peanuts, you know, it just keeps you busy.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

So if you already so if you already have it sounds like you don't want to get into it too much, but if you is is there any kind of good liver detox methods that you would recommend, or is it more just a lifestyle thing?

SPEAKER_00 55:05

I think it's it's more of a lifetime, uh lifestyle thing, and reducing the factors that would load up the toxic load in your liver. You know, so reduce reduce the input, like exposure to pesticides, exposure, exposure to toxic chemicals in your in your in your work workspace or in your living space, your cleaning products. I'm I'm really you know big on that, like reducing what comes in. Then the liver can do its job. And then of course you can take special herbs like milk thistle or dandelion. Really good. Yeah. Really, really good for liver support. So have a glass, have a cup of dandelion or milk thistle rather than doing something radical.

SPEAKER_01 56:03

You make tea instead of taking a supplement? Yes. You can where do you get your milk thistle and dandelion?

SPEAKER_00 56:10

Just herbs that I usually bring back from South Africa.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

You go and you just get it in its raw form.

SPEAKER_00 56:15

Yeah. Or you can get a there's a really nice mix I found from there's a herbalist in Taijiang called Health Bestowing Hands.

Sustainable Habits Over Extreme Cleanses

SPEAKER_01 56:27

This is the one oh, she sells mushroom extracts as well, right? Yeah, she sells a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

And she has a really good mix, like uh I'd like to meet her. It's like a lover-supporting mix, like with licorice root, burdock root. I love burdock root, and this is something you can find in Taiwan so easily. Really? Burdock. So cup of burdock with licorice, it's so good. And then with some cinnamon.

SPEAKER_01 56:54

I don't like licorice, but it sounds good.

SPEAKER_00 56:57

So she has a good mix of a good herbal mix that I use a lot.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:06

So just have a cup of tea in the morning or in the evening. What's her name again?

SPEAKER_01 57:10

Or the name of her?

SPEAKER_00 57:11

It's called Health Bestowing Hands.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Another mutual friend recommended her mushroom extracts to me before.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

Okay. Yeah, I know some people using using that a lot. Her her medicinal extracts. Another thing we can do is like green food. So, in terms of traditional Chinese medicine, since we are in Taiwan, you know, I think it's worth looking at what traditional Chinese medicine, how they view liver health. So they view the liver not as an organ, but as a system that regulates your blood and your chi. So super important that, you know, you keep the blood and the qi flowing. And the, you know, all the organs in Chinese medicine have their certain times of repair. So the liver's time is from 1 till 3 a.m. So if you wake up easily during 1 and 3, that means that there is a stagnation of your qi or stagnation of the blood. And then emotions. So what I love about Chinese medicine too is that they look at the body as you know in a holistic way. Yeah. So stuck emotions. Have you heard the term like angry lover?

SPEAKER_02 58:38

No.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

Okay. So they use that a lot, especially in terms of alcoholism. Like sometimes you get alcoholics that just like red in the face and they're just kind of looking really angry. So in Chinese medicine, they refer to that as angry lover. And anger is the is the seat of anger is in the liver. So expressing your emotions, expressing old anger that you hold on to through journaling or whatever way you find to express it through art or drawing is a way of helping the liver dealing with that with that emotion. So yeah, a lot of resentment, frustration, irritability, those are all signs of stuck chi in the liver, according to traditional medicine.

SPEAKER_01 59:32

I love traditional Chinese medicine. And then just uh a month ago, I went back to Chinese medicine, and I'm like, I don't know why I ever break this habit. It always just seems to actually treat the problem and really cause massive improvement. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

I mean it's so old.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:59

Anything that Exists for so long. There's gotta be something to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

I wish it were available back where I'm from. I don't know if people would be open-minded enough to try it. I don't know. I think people in pain are desperate enough to try anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

You have to be patient, also. True. I don't know. It seems to kick in pretty quick for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

Like in like a week, even as little as three days, I start to feel it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:22

What did you use it for?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

Bladder problems.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

I abused my bladder.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:28

Yeah. And then I went and had like an operation done and took all these pills and started buying these really expensive pills and still wasn't really w getting better. And then I went and gotten Chinese medicine and in three to five days. Wow. Yeah. Noticed a massive difference. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

I just started going on Chinese medicine two weeks ago. Yeah. And I couldn't, same thing. I couldn't believe the change. I had like kind of gouty style feeling around my fingers. Just like, oh, another menopause thing, you know. Put that to the list. And I found this Chinese doctor who's a specialist in menopause in Chinese medicine. Wow. At Su Thi Hospital.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:18

Oh wow. You went straight to the hospital for it. Yeah. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:21

My, yeah, anyway, it's personal, but I got referred to to this guy and I almost kissed him. I'm like, I cannot believe. I cannot tell you how happy I am I found you.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:33

You know, I was just so happy to find this guy. He's like, yeah, sure. Put me on Chinese medicine. A week later, a week later, same as you.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

I'm like, what? Like, where's that? It's gone.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

Yeah, and the hospital. Dude, the hospital's prescribing me almost up to 10 pills a day.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:51

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:51

Yeah. Brutal. Yeah. Now I'm taking two bags of powder a day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

And you know those pills all gonna have some kind of other negative.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Well, not gonna be good for your liver, are they?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:01

No. Yeah. So that brings me back. Let's go through this as well, according to Chinese medicine. So green food, so every organ is related to a color. So the color of the liver is green.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

So you can wear green clothes if you want to take it that far.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

Leprechauns must have good livers, eh?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:22

That's why they can drink so much. So green foods, dark green leafy vegetables, you know, bok choi. Again, broccoli, kale, dark green leafy vegetables.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:34

Sweet potato leaves.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:35

Yeah. Yeah. Kung Ching Tsai. Yeah. Sour foods. So the lemon. Lemon that stimulates the bile flow in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

From your pancreas? From your liver. I'm sorry, your gallbladder.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:50

From your gallbladder, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:52

So it's gonna keep the gallbladder flowing so you're not forming those stars.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:56

Apple cider vinegar. Anything sour?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:58

Sour.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:58

Lemon, apple cider vinegar. That's gonna keep your gallbladder moving and prevent stuff from getting stuck in there. Yes. Great. That's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:06

Produces produces bile. Oh stimulates bile flow, not produces, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

Okay. I think I heard something about sunflower seeds being good for your gallbladder. I can't remember the details. Or if it's even accurate, but I thought so.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:18

No, sunflower seeds. Oh no. Pumpkin seeds are good for parasites.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:23

Good for prostate too.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:25

Okay. Yeah, I don't have one.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:27

I look into that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:31

Bitter foods. Bitter.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:35

Yeah, I love it. What else is bitter? Dark chocolate?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:40

Rocket.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

Rocket? Rocket?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:44

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

Like a missile.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

Aru a regular?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:48

Arugula. Arugula. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That would be a bitter food.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:52

Artujok and dandelion. It's also considered bitter. Bitter foods. So bitter expels dampness in Chinese medicine, right? So it helps to expel dampness. Your infrared light would be really good for someone with like a liver problem and just put the red light on the organ. I know my old Chinese doctor used to do that. Whenever they do acupuncture, they'll have the red light on that infrared light on the spot where they're putting the needles as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:24

Blood nourishing foods, beets. So beet beetroot. Love beetroot.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

Me too. I love them. Kind of hard to find, but man, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:33

Oh, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

I'm trying to make some pickled beets right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

Yes. Yeah. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:37

Anything with beets. I'm all about it. Love it. Increases your VO2 max. It's so good for so many things.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

And yeah, women who it helps with blood stimulation, blood, blood production. So women going through menopause or through PMS or going through your period helps. That's a good time for beet juice. Yes. Yeah. Eggs, lentils, red dates, goji berries. Yeah. And the Chinese red dates. Yeah. Hungzou, Hungzhao. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:05

Goji berries. Yeah. I mean, that's just an amazing superfood.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:11

And then healthy fats, you know, olive oil, sesame oil, nuts, seeds, all the healthy fats.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:17

I've been taking flaxseed oil, but again, again, I think that's for the prostate.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:22

And it's really good for inflammation as well. Is it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

I've been, I started doing like raw, yeah, like olive oil. Because I know you shouldn't really cook with it, right? It's just eating a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:31

You can actually. That's actually a myth. So if you have a if you have a yeah, if you have a really good quality olive oil, so you can tell when you're cold pressed. Cold pressed and you drink it and it's kind of bitter in your throat.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

Yeah, I like that feeling.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:46

Yes. I have a client of mine who's an olive oil importer in Taiwan.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

Oh yeah?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:52

And she told I'm like, yeah, but you can't cook with olive oil. She's like, no. When you get the high quality olive oil, you can actually. Not you're not frying at a high still low temperature. But I I use only olive oil in all my cooking.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:08

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:09

Okay. I was under the impression coconut and avocado were the best for cooking.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:13

And they are still good for cooking.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:15

They are still good.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:15

But high quality avoc uh olive oil you can cook with.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

You can.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

Yeah, so I think that's I think the point is just doing the small having all the small good habits in your day always add up to good big good results, and all the small bad habits add up to bad results. So you know, I think in general, to to sum it up, it's like if you want to do coffee animas, if you want to do a liver flush, go ahead. Do your own research, be safe, make sure that you can do it. If you suspect that you're having gallstones, don't do it. Because you can get one of those gallstones stuck in your in your bile duct and then you're in trouble. Oh shit. So rather go with all the gentle daily practices first, you know, and fix your diet first and start with gentle fasting and have rather sustainable practices rather than the extreme ones. I'm not saying don't do it. Yeah. But there are risks to them. There are risks. So for someone who's starting out, I'd say just start with a diet and intermittent fasting, exercise. Sauna also stimulates glutathione.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:43

Really? Yes. Any kind of sauna.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:46

Sauna, yeah. Nice. Sauna, exercise, you know. And then the cruciferous vegetables, all the all the stuff we talked about.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:57

And just stop snacking, huh?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

Stop snacking.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

Do some light intermittent fasting.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:02

Those those two things really stood out as keys.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:06

Cool.

80/20 Lifestyle And Closing

SPEAKER_00 1:08:07

There's yeah, people can look at Dr. Feng, Dr. Jason Feng, Canadian, he's a nephrologist, kidney doctor, and he's big on intermittent fasting. He wrote the book Intermitted Fasting. It's translated in Chinese as well. He talks a lot about in insulin resistance and how it can help, how fasting can help reverse that. And then if you reverse that, the insulin resistance, you can reverse your fatty liver disease as well. Yeah, so Dr. Jason Fung, definitely, yeah, I like his work.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:45

Nice. Awesome. I love podcasts like these. I have a lot of good habits, but it's easy to lose good habits too. And some good habits might become stronger, and then other ones kind of dwindle. Yeah. But now, like you've reminded me of the importance of intermittent fasting and the importance of avoiding snacking.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:01

So Yeah. I think I think we talked about it last time too. Like when you reach a baseline of good health, your definition of good health is good energy. You wake up, your mind is clear, you have good sleep, you don't take a bunch of pills. You know, if you reach your baseline of relative good health, of course, we all have, you know, a few aches and pains here and there, then you can follow that 80-20 rule. So 80%, do your best, you know, do your research. Do get the good detergent. You know, get the good cleaning products. Spend a little bit more. You know, don't put crap on your face or on your body. Do the 80% good. And then 20%, okay, just had my birthday, gonna have the cheesecake, you know, gonna have the gin and tonic. That's my 20% naughty pleasures.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:59

I'm not as extreme as you. I just do 70 30.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:01

That's fine too. I think maybe because you're healthier too.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:05

I don't know about that. All right. Okay, cool. All right. Well, thank you for coming. We'll end it there. All right. All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:13

Thank you very much.