Success Secrets and Stories
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Success Secrets and Stories
From Five-Year Plans To Flexible Goals: The Quiet Edge of High Performing
Predicting the future won’t make your team faster, but building a plan you can adapt will. John and Greg dive into strategic vision that survives uncertainty by shifting the spotlight from rigid five-year promises to flexible execution, concrete process goals, and review rhythms that actually move the needle. Along the way, we compare outcome goals to process goals, show how quarterly and monthly check-ins create momentum, and explain why ambitious targets outperform vague intentions when they’re framed with SMART criteria and measured through meaningful KPIs.
We share practical tools leaders can use right away: communication rhythms that fit real schedules, a simple approach to financial forecasting you can do in two hours a month, and a GPS mindset for plans that “recalculate” instead of collapse. You’ll hear how to balance long-term vision with short-term execution, avoid the common trap of outcome obsession, and use digital tools and AI to sharpen insight without bogging down your week. The theme is clarity through action: set direction, measure what matters, and refine as you learn.
Then we bring the same playbook home. Family planning isn’t a lecture; it’s a shared roadmap built from values, wants versus needs, and small routines that lower stress and build trust. Journaling values, aligning on priorities, and installing simple weekly check-ins help kids and adults feel secure and engaged. From PDPs at work to family calendars at home, the principles line up: start small, make it consistent, and keep it flexible.
If this conversation helps you think differently about planning, subscribe and share it with someone who needs a nudge toward action.
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success, Secrets, and Stories. I'm your host, John Wondolowski, and I'm here with my co-host and friend, Greg Powell. Greg? Hey, everybody. And when we put together this podcast, we wanted to put out a helping hand and help that next generation and help answer the question of what does it mean to be a leader? Today, we want to talk about a subject that I think supports that concept. Today, we're going to talk about strategic vision. And a lot of organizations love to use that term. It's usually associated with something like the five-year plan. And I love the idea of a comment I've heard when you talk about strategic plan. Is it really a plan or is it a chocolate teapot? The topic always gets people talking. And some swear by five-year plans, and others argue that it's really not that useful. It's a classic tension, planning versus uncertainty. And there is an interesting fact in business about formal plans that grow much faster than those without a formal plan.
SPEAKER_00:Most successful small businesses have documented plans, and the difference isn't just correlation, but there's real causation behind their success.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but you know, there's a twist. We're living in one of those unpredictable times of history. And how do we reconcile the plans with constant change? That's that's really something that we can see in the news every day. And exactly where are we going to go with tariffs and Lord knows what else is changing?
SPEAKER_00:You know, exactly, because where does planning fit into a world that's continues to shift, continues to morph, continues to be different, like technology, for instance. Right. How do you work with that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, you know, goal setting really comes into play where research has linked goal setting to higher motivation, self-esteem, and confidence. Now you can see the effect of planning actually is more internal as well as external. But it's not just about having goals, it's about having the right type of goals that you want to set. So you mean process goals versus perhaps outcome goals? Exactly. And really the secret or the magic dust is process goals that focus on your actions that you can control. While outcome goals emphasize the final result, it's it's more like scorekeeping. For example, a process goal could be spending two hours each day learning a new skill, whereas an outcome goal might be I'll be in a department director within the next five years.
SPEAKER_00:So we're suggesting perhaps that process goals are more effective according to actual research?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, uh dramatically so. I think it kind of comes from having a plan versus just being random. That's why many professionals recommend quarterly reviews and regularly check in with their teams in terms of goals and to stay flexible and basically to stay engaged with that planning process.
SPEAKER_00:You know, that's a huge difference. And in fact, it reminds me of the scene in that Austin Powers movie where Dr. Evil demands one million dollars. Everybody there is laughing at the table because he didn't recognize that inflation had changed the value of that one million dollars. It's a perfect metaphor for why rigid long-term plans can be problematic.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, exactly. The future is unpredictable. And like the value of money, there's other things that are going to make those kind of changes that you have to be able to adapt. So should we stop planning altogether? That's a good question. But what's the solution? It's actually about combining strategic thinking with execution planning. Not to make it too complicated, but historically, five-year plans originated by government planning. Here's a stretch. Stalin was the first one in 1928 to actually be the example of government planning. Although I'm willing to put money on it, that there's some Russian economist that probably went to the gulag coming up with a plan that he wanted to take. But uh, yeah, he is actually the one that's been accredited of creating the first five-year strategic plan. In modern business, success comes from a balance between long-term and short-term planning and execution, regular meetings and strategic meetings set up on quarterly intervals to try to go over those priorities. And that's where the land of KPIs usually are generated.
SPEAKER_00:So businesses that use both approaches of a plan and key performance indicators are more likely to secure funding and really important resources. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. And like on the personal side, research shows ambitious goals lead to better performance.
SPEAKER_00:So isn't there a risk of setting goals that are too ambitious? I think you remember in the old days something called BHAGs, big, hairy, audacious goals, right? That book by Collins and Porrus. Are we talking about getting way out there with the ambitiousness?
SPEAKER_01:Surprisingly, no. Um, I don't know if they're audacious or out unbelievable, but consulting firms looked at that specific question and found leaders with challenging goals outperform leaders with easy or vague ones. They found that the aggressive goals push for the innovation and the growth of the individual. And really that's that's when goals are being applied correctly, that's what you're really looking for.
SPEAKER_00:So there's an interesting time we're going through now. It's not 2008, but how does the current economic climate factor in?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And really that kind of starts off so many of these meetings, especially when you have the accounting department in the meetings whenever you're trying to do an update. US economy right now is like what, 0.3% in the first quarter, making planning very crucial. And in uncertain times, having clear decisions, making a framework is far more valuable than ever.
SPEAKER_00:So, what makes an effective five-year plan? There have to be some key elements, there have to be some must-haves.
SPEAKER_01:I think there is. And accountants are not going to use this format, but I believe that it is the best way to try to set up goals. And it's called SMART goals. And we've talked about this in other applications, and it still applies so well. Being specific, clearly stating what needs to be done and who will do it. Measurable, defining the progress and how it's going to be tracked or monitored. Achievable, really, like to your point about the book, not audacious, but you know, let's try to find something that is realistic, but still is going to push to try to get results relevant to make sure that the objectives fit the purpose and the vision. And then the last one is time or time-bound, setting up a timeline for completion so that a goal and a result is captured within a reasonable period of time so that it's got an end date, that you're not chasing it forever.
SPEAKER_00:So, John, at first blush, this seems kind of rigid. How do you stay flexible within a structure like that?
SPEAKER_01:Well, it kind of comes down to communication and finding that rhythm, whether it be daily or weekly or monthly or quarterly. It kind of depends on how the organization itself, or really the people that you're trying to check in with, are responding. And it helps the group to stay agile so that you're not losing somebody in the process. So, can you give us an example or two? Sure. You know, I had different approaches in terms of my application to what I call, you know, communication rhythms. And sometimes I could get away with like a five or 10 minute conversation in my rounds when I would be walking around the site. To be a little bit more formal, especially when I was using third parties, I would create a monthly meeting where we would talk about strategic issues that affected construction projects. And when there was really much more of a complex kind of question, those reviews would also be with executives, trying to talk about it quarterly, making sure that the objectives of a two-year construction project or a three-year construction project is progressing. Changing those timelines really depends on how they push back. That's that staying agile and being able to adapt. Those are kind of key to make sure that you got that rhythm working.
SPEAKER_00:So, John, what about the individual employee? How often should they communicate with management regarding their personal long-term plan? The smart personal career goals and progress.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, in a business sense, it's sort of like the ever famous PDPs, right? We're going to talk about that later. But it's it's that personal plan that you do with your boss, and you want to make sure that they're smart goals, that they're achievable. Hopefully they're on the same job and job application that you're working with. But it's always good to have a written review of that process to make sure that the department goals and the individual's goals, their personal goals, are being accomplished. And I'm aware of that's a lot of hard work, and there's challenges, there's a lot of challenges trying to address all that at the same time. But that really is the difference between leadership and management. That's not just meeting the requirements, it's it's exceeding those requirements. So, what happens when things go off track?
SPEAKER_00:How do you get things back on track?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, it's inevitable, right? I mean, most businesses, like 50, 60% of businesses, can adapt their plans to reach their objectives. That's the whole idea of being agile. Planning should be a living document. It's like a GPS, recalculating the direction that you want to go.
SPEAKER_00:So that analogy makes a lot of sense. But what about resources needed?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, the world of money. Financial forecasting, if you haven't heard that term before. And it's hard for probably the term that I heard it most use whenever you had the entrepreneurs and they're trying to come up with answers for bankers and trying to do forecasting. Use digital tools. That's really where AI is starting to kick in. That's where you're going to see the biggest change. And also dedicate time to it. Like one of the best things to do is dedicate two hours a month for financial planning and that forecasting exercise. If you need more time, then so be it. But you need to put that in part of your actual toolbox of what you need to do to be an executive leader.
SPEAKER_00:So, you know, that's manageable and sustainable. But what's the biggest mistake people make moving forward?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, focusing too much on the outcomes. Outcomes are outcomes. Those are results. Instead, pay attention to the process. That's what you can control. That's what you can actually influence.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, John. So what's your final tip for starting a business-related five-year plan?
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Well, let's begin with the process again with goals and regular reviews. And remember that flexibility is strength. It's like that GPS example of recalculating your journey. But planning is really more of a habit rather than a one-time event. Reframing a five-year plan is a planning muscle, and that's something that you need to keep warmed up and exercised. Second point start small. Plan the next five months, but then stretch it as you go along in the process to be a five-year plan, but start where it's achievable. Planning makes uncertainty something that you can navigate. It's not avoidable. It's inevitable. Let me give you a little bit of a quote, something to reflect on. Plans are useless, but planning is indispensable. That's by Dwight D. Eisenhower.
SPEAKER_00:So success isn't about a perfect prediction, rather, it's about having a framework that you can navigate the future. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:And you know, I really need to talk about something else. Planning should be something that you would do with your family, and applying the same thing with the SMART goals in a family setting.
SPEAKER_00:So, John, definitely. I mean, crafting a personal development plan, making sure your family goals are aligned, developing leadership and skills, all that matters. This isn't just about follow your dreams, pep talk, right? Rah-rah, happy, let's go forward. So, what's the most common misconception?
SPEAKER_01:People think that a family plan is about setting random goals. Really, it's about structured process requiring honest self-reflection and attainable action steps. That sounds familiar, right? You don't want to make something pie in the sky and then see that disappointment, especially in a family setting. It's like creating a roadmap so that you know where you're going and you can figure out how to get there.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I will tell you, John, from my experience in human resources, where individuals need personal development plans, families definitely do as well. And it helps them navigate the tough times and get to the goals that they're trying to achieve. But how do you start self-reflection? No, family planning. Sit downs are not usually fun, right? Somebody did something wrong. We're here having a family meeting, whatever. You know, it can be very overwhelming thinking about a sit-down family plan. How do you attack that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, uh it's like, oh, how do you eat a whale, like one spoon at a time? You're you're trying to find some manageable steps. Start by, you know, simply journal entries of your values. It's a great way to try to identify those things that are important to you and ask your family to do the same things. What are the dreams, the strengths, the weaknesses? What are their goals? And help them to do a little bit of that self-reflection, that self-u-assessment of their goals that can be achieved. It's a wonderful thing in a family setting to try to bring out that dreamer that you have at your own table. And you'd be surprised what you can learn.
SPEAKER_00:So it's not just about what you want, but understanding why you want it. And that sounds a lot like that psychology word we've talked about in the past.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, it is. And it's a lot of what Dr. Durst helped me understand is what do you want in terms of family goals that may be something you want at the beginning, but you know, that changed over time. To understand the difference between wants and needs, that's probably the greatest thing to start with in terms of family requirements. We would all like a million-dollar lottery ticket, but if you want a second bathroom, which is a real need for a family that has three kids, yeah, that's a real need. And going to Harvard may be a want, but receiving a bachelor's degree is the real need. And trying to find ways to increase your earnings and savings in order to accomplish that need for your family, that's actually using your resources the best you can.
SPEAKER_00:So it's about how business and family goals and then how they relate to each other.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh, an interesting application, it's a little bit of a stretch, but uh I think it's Madame Marie Currie. And uh, she won two Nobel Prizes in terms of science, and she was raising two daughters at the same time. And okay, so she knows that she understands science, and instead of trying to make some conflict, she worked with her children, with both of her daughters, and found it as a teaching opportunity. And and that family grew in the world of science that even her eldest daughter won a Nobel Prize in Chemistry. It's fascinating how the family unit worked as one and it had a common goal.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I will tell you, John, this is a great example of family and personal goals and how they can reinforce each other.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And family planning goes beyond deciding to have children or about health or about education or about financial security. Constant family routines are linked to children's social skills and academic success. Structure creates security and predictability. When the family has shared vision and shared strength, they grow, and that's really a wonderful starting point. Let me give you a couple examples of why a family needs a plan. Families thrive when they share that common goal. And since you're going to be doing it on some kind of regular basis, you know the goals change. Planning reduces stress and builds trust. And there can't be anything more that children are looking for than that element of trust. Encouraging open communication and shared values is the example of what you're trying to do as a parent. And if that doesn't help really push the needle for the family to grow, that's probably the biggest challenge that they're going to have. Family goals are like financial milestones, i.e., like our college example that we talked about, health and wellness routines, having some fun with travel experiences, and then looking at education as personal growth and maybe doing some hobbies from that experience. They're all things that actually help that process.
SPEAKER_00:So, John, that must impact the whole family's well-being. And I think back during 2008, 2009, and the economy was really tough, and I was going to lose my job. I was looking for another job. So I found another job. Unfortunately, it was 200 miles away. And I commuted for four and a half years every week so that my daughter could go to high school with her junior high friends. And my mother was living with us, and she had doctor issues and dialysis and wanted to not uproot any of that. But I needed to provide for the family, and this was the optimal way to do so. And I missed some of my kids' events that occurred during the week. And we all sacrificed something during that time. But I can tell you, and you can ask them, we emerged better as a family unit. So structure really does help kids thrive.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. And families with routines are more resilient during crises. And that I think even the power to handle illnesses. The advantages also helps in terms of unity, like we talked about, where everyone feels part of that journey. That there is that adaptability to plans where they can see those changes in terms of how life pushes you in a new direction. That GPS starts to kick in. And there's that emotional safety that planning reduces uncertainty.
SPEAKER_00:So, John, this is really interesting and valuable information. So, what's the most important takeaway we should remember from this?
SPEAKER_01:Create a direction. And it's not going to be perfection, it's about the process. Start small, keep consistent, and adjust as you go. Life balance means setting a direction for your family so that everyone knows what is possible and how to dream.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I can tell you, even small improvements in planning and routine can lead to big, huge changes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. And what a perfect moment uh in order to try to do that plan for yourself. That would be right now. This is the perfect time to start. If you haven't done it, you need to do it.
SPEAKER_00:So to wrap up, planning helps organizations with direction, staffing, goals, and yes, career development, that personal development. The same skills apply to personal life. Planning your career, your family goals, do that together. That will reduce conflict and with regular updates and less drama at home.
SPEAKER_01:I couldn't have said it better. Exactly. Planning is really an important tool, and it can really give you an opportunity to find life is less stressful, and you can have a better chance to enjoy it. So if you like what you've heard, I've written a book called Building Your Leadership Toolbox, and we talk about tools like this, and it's available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and other sites. The podcast is what you've been listening to. Thank you so much. It's also available on Apple, Google, and Spotify. A lot of what we talk about is from Dr. Durst in his MBR program. If you'd like to know more about Dr. Durst, you can find out on SuccessGrowthAcademy.com. And if you'd like to contact us, please send me a line. That's Wando75 periodjw at gmail.com. And the music has been brought to you by my grandson. So we want to hear from you. Drop me a line. Tell me what's going on, what you like, and what you would like to hear about. It has always helped us to create content. Thanks, Greg. This was fun. Thanks, John. As always. Next time. Yeah.