Success Secrets and Stories
To share management leadership concepts that actually work.
You are responsible for your development as a leader. Don't expect the boss to invest the training budget in your career. Consider this podcast as an investment of time in your career, with a bit of management humor added at the same time.
Success Secrets and Stories
Trust First, Bias Last: The Real Work Of Inclusive Leadership
Ever watched a meeting get hijacked by the loudest voice and wondered what real inclusion would look like instead? We unpack the concrete moves that turn leadership ideals into daily practice: listening before speaking, setting fair norms, inviting quieter voices, and designing systems that help everyone contribute at full capacity—whether your team is in-office, remote, or somewhere in between.
We start by redefining inclusion beyond diversity metrics and get into the manager habits that actually shift culture: humility over ego, curiosity over certainty, and openness over optics. Greg shares how moving his desk to the team’s floor and saying “teach me” transformed engagement, while John walks through handling bullies with private candor and firm boundaries. We break down career reviews that prioritize growth, feedback loops that catch unseen barriers, and the role of ERGs and reverse mentorship in expanding perspective. You’ll hear practical scripts for drawing out quiet contributors, approaches for scheduling and communication that don’t exclude, and recognition tactics that spotlight behind-the-scenes excellence.
Bias and accountability sit at the core of this conversation. We talk about noticing your triggers, not letting a single misstep become a lifetime label, and weaving inclusive behavior into team goals. Trust is the accelerant: start with noble intent, offer stretch assignments with coaching, and build psychological safety so disagreement sharpens ideas instead of shutting people down. If you’re a new manager—or a seasoned one ready to level up—you’ll leave with a usable playbook for inclusive leadership that boosts creativity, productivity, and retention.
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success, Secrets, and Stories. I'm your host, John Wondolowski, and I'm here with my co-host and friend, Greg Powell. Greg? Hey, everybody. And when we put together this podcast, we wanted to put out a helping hand and help that next generation and help answer the question of what does it mean to be a leader? Today, we want to talk about a subject that I think supports that concept. So today, we wanted to talk about a very interesting term, inclusive work environment. And we're going to dive into the typical topic for anyone stepping into management's role. Creating an inclusive work environment is the responsibility of all managers. Whether you're leading a small team or a large department, fostering inclusion isn't just a buzzword. It's fundamental for driving productivity, innovation, and employee satisfaction.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, John. So let's start by breaking down what inclusion really means and why it matters. Whether in the office all week, remote work, or hybrid work environments, what does inclusion look like?
SPEAKER_01:Well, for me, inclusion in the workplace means making sure that every employee feels valued and respected, empowered to contribute 100% of their capacity, regardless of their background, their identity, or their perspective.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. It goes well beyond diversity statistics. An inclusive culture ensures people are heard and given equal opportunities. It's the foundation of a positive, thriving organization. Used to have an old saying: diversity is being invited to the party, and inclusion is being asked to dance. Real engagement.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And for new managers, setting a tone of inclusion starts with everyday actions and policies.
SPEAKER_00:So, John, why is it special and why is this important for new managers?
SPEAKER_01:As a new manager, the team looks for you for the clues. You lead from the front, which is an old military term. How you treat people, those voices you amplify, the policies that you implement, all shape the work environment that you create. How can you, as a manager, help create a more inclusive work environment? It's a process that involves self-awareness, learning, and here's the magic word, listening, and an openness to new ways of working and seeing what the employees see. The payoff is a more engaged team with better ideas and greater productivity, and with more satisfying work experience for everyone.
SPEAKER_00:You know, John, research shows inclusive teams are more productive and more creative, and they actually have lower turnover. People want to stay where they feel appreciated and respected. So how do managers get started on this inclusive work environment?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, it starts with yourself. The journey of becoming more inclusive as a manager is the bottom line, that whole thing about leading from the front, leading by example. Parts that I think are pretty universal, be humble. You're probably used to being recognized or rewarded for being very competent in doing whatever task that you learn in order to get that promotion and making quick decisions. However, to manage for inclusion, you need to cultivate the humanity rather than your ego, your openness and your perspectives rather than your power. Accept that you're not an expert and you're not always right. That you're a learner of this journey and that others have something to teach you. Shift your approach from solving the problem of exclusion to exporting and working on other inclusions. Acknowledge your blind spots. Recognize that your life experience and your views aren't shared by everyone else in that room. Understand that you have biases and how you think and how you react to other people, even if you aren't conscious of them. You can affect your actions, your decisions on how you relate to people. Accept that your experience in the workplace may be very different than someone else that doesn't look or speak or act like you. Even from someone who may be very much like you on the surface. Learn. Strengthen your understanding of the people who are different from you. Learn about different cultures. Learn about the history, the terms of privilege and discrimination and other forms of bias, and the wide range of different life experiences. And you're probably asking, well, exactly how you're going to get that kind of information. It's by what you read, the movies, listening to informational audio, like a podcast, attending training sessions and workshops, and having conversations to understand other people's perspectives.
SPEAKER_00:So, John, that sounds like the start of a solid plan. Now, I have an example that I would like to share, starting with myself, to create an inclusive workplace. So I came into a role that had been bacon for about six months, and they were really being led by someone who had another area. And this was really their second kind of job. And it was kind of the, I won't call them the orphan kids, but they probably felt that way sometimes. And so it was easy for me to come in and be humble and let them know where I might be short-sighted because of my newness to the organization and the industry, the geographic area. I came in humble. I dug into the learning opportunity like a dry sponge. I didn't come out like an expert or the few things I'd read that make me an expert. I really wanted to learn from my team. And actually, it served me well to get to know my new team from the outset and for them to get to know me. So we had a great start. And then I did something that some of my senior current parts didn't want to do, but I did it anyway. I moved into an office with my department. I went downstairs to make sure that the interaction with the team was very transparent. John, what other ideas do you have?
SPEAKER_01:Well, you can connect in a more inclusive way, which I'm going to go back to my favorite word in terms of leadership. Listen and then ask questions. I probably do that the most in terms of leadership. Don't assume that you know how the people around you think and feel. Ask questions, draw out their honest thoughts and reactions. Then listen to what they had to say. Make an effort to spend the time listening and then speaking about those conversations. How many times have I been in talking to some technician saying, you're interested in my opinion? No one's ever asked me how to do it before. I would simply look at them in the eye and say, Teach me. Show me. I'm all ears. You would not believe the reaction that I got from the work environment when I did that. So you're connecting on a human level. Get to know the people that you work with at a personal level, not just who they work with, what they do on the job. Learn what motivates them. What are their goals? What are their aspirations? What their lives are like outside of work. And the thing that I want to tell all of you is that this should not be a one-time occasion. You need to do it all the time. I always do it during career reviews. And you might know them as performance reviews, scratch performance, call it career reviews, and do it at least quarterly so that you can keep that engagement in terms of career. Do it respectfully, without pushing the boundaries of privacy. Encourage this human connection between the team members and yourself. Make time in the meetings to make sure that you're structuring a team-building activity. A little bit of a different idea is to seek out perspectives of ideas. That's that idea of trying to listen, expand your circle of connections at work to include people that are different from you, include people that are in different departments, different expertise, and of course, people who are different to you in other ways as race, ethnicity, gender, country of origin, educational background, sexual orientation. It's asking to sit in the in the room and listen to everyone and giving them a voice. I think, Greg, you worked with employee resource groups or ERGs, and the affinity for this kind of group, gaining a better understanding of goals and activities in the process, correct?
SPEAKER_00:That is correct, John. These are folks that are trying to help the organization be successful by evaluing the differences. And so, but staying in line with having the company meet its goals. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it's a valuable tool, but you know, that's when you're using your HR department to help you in the process. Another one I think is very important is to be a mentor or a mentee. Looking beyond the people who share similar backgrounds and demographics with you and find someone who is different that might benefit from your mentorship. Someone who might not be seeking the likeness in themselves, in the organization's leadership, you know, and you're extending that hand to give them that step up. Explore the idea of reverse mentorships too, learning that partnership where you are a mentee. And as, you know, someone who is younger and less experienced, employees share their insights and their ideas.
SPEAKER_00:John, I would add to that, don't be afraid to ask for feedback. As we like to say, feedback is a gift. You're looking for feedback on your leadership style, and be open to learning. Inclusion is a journey, not a one-time fix. You can use an anonymous survey or whatever else that might help you get more constructive and helpful feedback.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And, you know, it helps in terms of reviewing your team's progress. There are barriers that might be unintentional to exclude someone. For example, a meeting is always scheduled at a time that will work for everyone, that communication is accessible, making sure that you're not making any unconscious uh blocking of communication in the process.
SPEAKER_00:You know, John, so it brings me to the topic of bias. You know, we all have it, even if it's unconscious. You know, what can new managers do to address this? Well, I can tell you what I try to do. Probably one of my biggest biases in uh the workplace are people that are being rude to other folks, people that talk over somebody, they get in the way, they dismiss someone before they get a chance to air out their their topic. And unfortunately for me, it stayed in my head. So I was still mad at that person, the next conversation, the next meeting. And that was a flaw of mine that said, hey, they they kind of screwed up once. I talked to them, I coached them a little bit. I need to remember that people make mistakes, but I can't carry that bias with me for the rest of our working relationship.
SPEAKER_01:But you also didn't let it sit and fester. You challenged it and you addressed it. For me, um, I think my biggest bias is bullies. And I'll admit that probably was not one of my better examples of leadership because a bully is trying to take the leadership role away from you. And you it's that battle of who's leading and who's following. If it's a peer, you have to be careful and you have to learn diplomacy. In my world, I pulled the bully to the side and had an individual, you know, man-on-man discussion of how you're speaking and how you're conducting yourself. I don't know you, but I didn't deserve that conversation. So you keep you're you're kind of like rolling it in as a leader and addressing it in private and making sure that the bully understands, I know what you're doing. And I'd recommend you stopping it. And you don't make any threats, but you're basically bringing the light of day to the situation. I think that's the important part. And that's part of what training really people who are dealing with understanding your biases try to highlight to understand when it's actually happening and the interactions and decisions that you make at that point.
SPEAKER_00:So creating accountability is important as well. You want to set clear expectations for inclusive behavior and follow-up if issues do arise. Inclusion should be built into your team's goals.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and inclusion isn't that box that needs to be checked. It's ongoing. And probably the most important part that people talk about is to celebrate that diversity and with recognitions to the contributions from everyone.
SPEAKER_00:That's right, John. And you also want folks to stay curious and keep learning. We talk about continuous improvement, ongoing learning. The workplace is always evolving, and so are the best practices for inclusion. What other ideas or thoughts do you have, John?
SPEAKER_01:Show that you value people for who they are. Demonstrate in a way that you interact with the people you manage on your team, that you respect and appreciate every person with all of their individuality. Encourage people to be their authentic self at work, not to hide their true selves and to fit in with the cultural norms. Make it clear that you respect everyone and manage to behave in the same welcoming way, without snubs, without negative judgment, without bias in terms of differences. Make trust your opening position. Instead of making employees earn your trust, begin with trusting them. Learn their strengths or capacities by trusting them and giving them stretch assignments.
SPEAKER_00:Just building on what you're talking about, I remember at a couple of companies, one in particular, where the attitude was expect noble intent, that someone's actually trying to do the right thing. And even though it may sound a little off, really listen to it to make sure. But don't assume people are saying bad things, doing bad things. Assume that maybe they're doing something very noble or saying something very noble.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, that is it's establishing trust at the beginning and giving them that. I guess that's the bottom line for me is that's how I've always operated. I give that trust to almost any situation, to anyone that's on the team, but never abuse the trust. Lie to me and you're done. So that trust is an important element to keep, especially in an inclusive environment. You want to make sure that you're not trying to make it a cloudy picture. You're leading from the front, that's by example. Another part, I think, is what we've been talking about, is to provide that support and that coaching. It's not a sink or swim kind of approach. It's more of a recipe of something that you're you're trying not to be in an exclusive environment. For someone who is struggling, you're giving them additional support. You might do that by assigning a peer mentor or providing more one-on-one coaching, or by looking at the team, and it might be more cooperative. Thinking coach before thinking about performance problems, probably that mentality of how to approach it. The most important thing is that if you're leading from the front, be generous with your praise and your appreciation. Pay attention to those who get recognized for their good works and tend to be overlooked. That always looking at the 10% or 5% that are the problem, that 5 or 10% that are doing outstanding work are often overlooked. Be intentional with your offering praise and appreciative more broadly, not just to the people that are most visible to you, but the people who are working behind the scenes. Greg, any final thoughts?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, John. One recommendation is motivate in inclusive ways. Encourage collaboration while pushing people to be the best that they can possibly be. You still want to set high expectations so that people can stretch themselves, right? You've heard us talk about stretch goals and feel proud of their accomplishments, but do it in a way that balances collaboration and friendly competition. Build a team on which people help and learn from each other. Generate ideas together and make the most of a different individual strengths for the good of the team and the organization. I remember in my own departments in human resources, I wanted the folks in compensation and benefits to feel good when the recruiters did something great. We had a great intern class. I wanted all the team, all of us to be uh excited and included because it was for all us. Now, another one that's somewhat germane to HR for me, and I'm just saying it out loud: make sure people feel safe. When a person feels like an outlier in a group, it can feel dangerous to speak up and offers views that might conflict with the majority opinion or the group's accept the truth. Make it a point of drawing out the thoughts of people who may be holding back and show your appreciation for their courage to speak up. You need to watch for signs of negative reactions from others in the in the group and make it clear that while discussion and productive disagreement are encouraged, negative judgments, instability, and suppression of opposing views are not appreciated.
SPEAKER_01:Which is like standard operating procedure for brainstorming of accepting ideas and being appreciative of their involvement. And that's all part of the team building, taking the wisdom of others and then seeing how you can basically multiply that. And also, you know, there's workshops and there's other podcasts and other ways to encourage professional development.
SPEAKER_00:John, as a new manager, you have the power to shape the culture of your team. I would argue you have the responsibility to shape the culture of your team, right?
SPEAKER_01:Greg, we've we've talked about a lot of things in terms of how managers can pull the team together and understand that diversity and inclusion and what we do as leaders is how we lead. And that example goes throughout the organization. And hopefully, some of these examples in terms of showing how you would actually apply the skill sets of pulling people together and encouraging the quiet souls that are in the back of the room to come forward. And I think the most important part is the listening skills that you need in order to have a really proactive, inclusive environment. It all comes down to a leader doing a better job of listening before they speak. And hopefully that helps you in terms of being a leader and those kind of pearls of wisdom that help you in terms of taking that next step. So if you like what you've heard, I've written a book called Building Your Leadership Toolbox, and we talk about tools like this, and it's available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and other sites. The podcast is what you've been listening to. Thank you so much. It's also available on Apple, Google, and Spotify. A lot of what we talk about is from Dr. Durst and his MBR program. If you'd like to know more about Dr. Durst, you can find out on SuccessGrowthAcademy.com. And if you'd like to contact us, please send me a line. It's Wanto75 periodjw at gmail.com. And the music has been brought to you by my grandson. So we want to hear from you. Drop me a line. Tell me what's going on, what you like, and what you would like to hear about. It has always helped us to create content. Thanks, Greg. This was fun. Thanks, John.
SPEAKER_00:As always. Next time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.