Success Secrets and Stories
To share management leadership concepts that actually work.
You are responsible for your development as a leader. Don't expect the boss to invest the training budget in your career. Consider this podcast as an investment of time in your career, with a bit of management humor added at the same time.
Success Secrets and Stories
The Hidden Skill Of Leadership: Friendship As Emotional Resilience
Leadership shouldn’t feel like a solo climb. When pressure builds and decisions stack up, the difference between burning out and bouncing back is often a small circle of real friends who listen, challenge, and show up. We explore how to go beyond likes and contacts to build genuine connection that strengthens emotional resilience and makes you a better leader and a better human.
Greg and I unpack why “more networking” isn’t the answer if it stays shallow. You’ll hear a candid audit of contacts vs. close friends, a simple cadence for staying in touch, and the practical difference between professional friends and the people you call at 9 p.m. for honest feedback. We talk about modeling connection for younger managers, turning vulnerability into a team skill, and the subtle ways leaders accidentally choose escapism over belonging.
Then we get tactical. Learn how to form peer mentoring circles that actually stick, design purpose-driven gatherings around shared values, and borrow the best of women’s intentional networks to deepen trust. We share ideas for service-based projects that bond teams, story forums that normalize fear and failure, and wellness meetups that pair health with human connection. Along the way, we return to one simple habit: schedule friendship like any important priority, and bring constructive optimism to every touch point.
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success, Secrets, and Stories. I'm your host, John Wondolowski, and I'm here with my co-host and friend, Greg Powell. Greg? Hey everybody. And when we put together this podcast, we wanted to put out a helping hand and help that next generation and help answer the question of what does it mean to be a leader? Today we want to talk about a subject that I think supports that concept. So this podcast is going to be a little bit of a step back. We've talked about emotional intelligence before, but a subject that seems to be coming up in the news just so often is the whole idea of loneliness. And for me, it kind of breaks down to friendships. And sometimes leaders are in this position where it's a lonely position. And a lot of frontline leaders struggle trying to find that balance and finding an authentic friendship or developing an authentic friendship. And the truth is the biggest problem we have right now is social media. And bottom line, stop with the social media. Decide what you want to learn or how you want to play or how you want to act as a human being, but it isn't on a computer. The best example I can give you is somebody that I had a teacher in a community college brought up the whole idea of the Library of Congress. And the Library of Congress has everything that has been written by man in one spot. People do not go to the Library of Congress instead of going to a college or a university because that's not the essence of learning. Because you're not learning social skills. Learning just for the sake of learning isn't the point. It's being able to find social settings where you can find friends and spouses and maybe employment connections and expand on things like you enjoy in terms of team sports. There's so much more to life if you just go out and grab, take that risk, and extend yourself. And I find it frustrating, as you can tell. And it shouldn't be. It is such an opportunity to find something that you're hunting for, and it's there. There's different ways of accomplishing it. And that's what we're going to talk about. The real challenge is finding balance and finding a way to connect deeply without losing sight of the roles that we have as leaders and how that interacts in terms of how we develop our own personal lives. Greg, maybe you you can help out here with this idea.
SPEAKER_01:Sure thing, John. So for those of you listening to this podcast, think about the last time you felt truly connected, not online, not through likes or comments, but face to face in a moment of trust. That's what we're going to talk about today.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And here's the thing developing friends involves proactive engagement through shared interests, like clubs or hobbies, even through your church. But being a genuine listener is the key to being a friend.
SPEAKER_01:The other issue is around psychology, that psychology of showing vulnerability and prioritizing consistency. And also effort and nurturing connections, focusing on mutual support and shared fund. And you're doing this all the time while allowing friendships to grow naturally.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And that's the technical approach in terms of the emotional intelligence that we talk about. And in leadership, it isn't just about managing others. That that whole thing that Greg was just talking about, it's how to manage ourselves and the friendships that we basically sustain us. I want you to think about counting your friends right now, the people that you consider close to you. You know, the ones that you can stop by and visit and have a conversation, just pick up the phone. Well, you you have to keep people on two types of lists. For me, it's the people who are connected to me the most are people like my wife and my my family, my brothers. Those, those are the most uh closest people, my most inner circle, if you wish. But there are friends that expand beyond that core team. So I sat down recently and made a list of friends, which is kind of interesting. And I'm I'm doing this podcast with one of my best friends, and and it's really is an exercise of understanding what I have actually put into motion. The humor that I had is I open up Apple and I have a 1,683 contacts. And of that list, I have 24 people that I would consider close friends. So, John, of that list, how many have you talked to in maybe the last 12 months per se? That's a great point. And that's probably the biggest challenge, especially you know, being a retiree. I've talked to 12 of the 24 in the past year. And that's really a telling measurement of friendship. How many of those have you made that effort? I have made that effort to simply pick up the phone. Uh and also like nine out of those 24, I have the opportunity to see them instead of calling them. They're close enough that I can actually step out and have that opportunity to be able to meet with them. And especially that's harder as we're going along.
SPEAKER_01:So, John, I got to ask the very obvious question. Why didn't you call all 24 friends last year? Well, that's that's a great question.
SPEAKER_00:Um, most of the rest of that list are what I would call professional acquaintances that are more like professional friends. Now, they might be a limited friendship outside of the working environment, but they are still friends that understand and we have that shared trust and risk in terms of what friendships are based upon. And they've been very supportive in my career. I can pick up the phone and call any of them. That's really the key. But let's change the subject just for a second. Why do friendships matter in terms of leadership? I keep on using this word emotional resilience or emotional intelligence. And that's really the point that we're trying to make. Leaders carry stress. Without trusted peers, burnout is inevitable. Friendships act like a shock absorber. Those professional contexts that I was talking about, I would consider friends in terms of not coming over for dinner, but I would be able to meet with them outside of the work environment. And whether it be at a conference or whether it be at a golf outing, they were still people that are like my job reference whenever I was changing careers. They were technical experts, personal experts. They really helped me resolve issues, and they were those kind of friends that I could call when I was in trouble.
SPEAKER_01:So, John, I understand the difference of a friend and a professional friend. You know, professional friend that shares your space and taking responsibility for your job, your career. The career titles should not isolate us. Friendships remind leaders that they're human beings first and that the role they play is second.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And, you know, it does help in terms of modeling that kind of connection. Especially if the next generation is listening. If leaders show how to build a healthy relationship, they're teaching that connection and it is a skill. And that's kind of the part of what we're doing in this podcast. As a leader, you have to take the lead. You have to make that example. So let's pause for a moment. Who is your sounding board? I have a sounding board and it's Greg. And I have asked Greg, what am I doing in terms of my career? Am I going in the right direction? Is there something else I should be looking for? I asked Greg for maybe, you know, a clear idea of whether I was giving a good presentation and whether I was coming across well. He was my sounding board. Uh, who do you call?
SPEAKER_01:So, John, as you know, you're on my list of people to call, talking about careers and family situations that affect careers, affect our jobs. Um, both my brothers and I speak uh once a week. Other guys that you've met before, LB, Dave, still close friends, talk to them usually on a weekly basis, uh, talk about business, talk about life and whatever. And I feel that they're very near and dear. And there was another gentleman, his name was Steve, and you met Steve some time ago as well. And Steve and I were really close because we were doing the same kind of job. We both got into human resources at the same time. He was a store manager before. Um, I was working in supervisory management before, and we got an HR at the same time and went up the ladder together. And when I went to grad school, he liked it, he went to grad school. When I got promoted to director, he got promoted to director. Then he flipped the switch on me and he got voted promoted to vice president before I could get up there. But the point of it is we were very good friends, we were colleagues. And then unfortunately, he had brain cancer. And in 14 months, he was gone. And I felt bad for his wife and his three daughters and grandchildren. But I also felt bad that I'd missed some opportunities because I took it for granted. I just probably should have called twice as much as I did during the time we knew each other. But I'm glad I did have the conversation and relationship we had together.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You know, it kind of reminds me of a quote my dad said when I was in high school. And it was pretty profound. Uh and it was a simple thought. If you can count your friends on more than one hand, you're truly blessed. And I really found that as a telling element that I want to try to convey to you in this audience. That is a goal. That's just as important as anything else you have on those list of things you're trying to accomplish. Having that kind of network of friends or people that are close, that's the way to fight the pressures, distress, and the loneliness that goes along with leadership, having a life, and that in the simplest of terms. I want to talk about, I think the best example of people who understand the idea of friendship and that women do a better job of understanding this approach of creating friends and being an inviting kind of person. They have book clubs and wine tastings and all kinds of shared activities. But it's a sense that they foster that belonging with intent. There is a real movement in professional women organizations to develop contacts and to encourage mentoring of other women that are looking for advancement in work assignments, something men used to do 20 years ago. And it's not competitive, it's what we all should be doing. We've lost those lessons, they have gained those lessons. We both should be doing it. But most organizations don't pay for conferences any longer and they're pushing back on association fees. And it's harder and harder to see these employees, these leaders, especially at the entry-level kind of manager and director level, being able to pay for their expenses themselves because they feel that it's an extra that they can do without. And also, organizations are kind of pushing people away from off-site activities like golf outings that used to be that other's resource of meeting people and talking to people outside of a work environment. Which, which is a nice little tag. Greg, maybe you can talk about the challenge of men's networks.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely, John. You know, the men's networks are, like you've mentioned, more like golfing and going to the bar, sporting events. Even this day and age, pickleball could be a network for men. Uh, but they're somewhat shallow, right? They don't have that emotional depth that you really look for. You know, women's networks do a really good job of being close, being vulnerable, providing safe harbor for discussions and concerns and just sharing. And it's something that men's networks are not as good at and need to be better at. Okay. Let's talk about the leadership gap. Leaders need spaces that go beyond recreation. We need trust, we need vulnerability, and we need support. So as you're listening to this podcast, why don't you ask yourself, are your social circles helping you? Are they helping you grow? Or are they really helping you escape?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and really, if you think about it, a lot of what you see men doing is escapism when they're going to the bar and they're not really making those connections. And you see it in the commercials, they they really don't have that face-to-face kind of friendship. It's all like third-party, it's all removed. And men, for the most part, are more isolated, and it takes something more in terms of personal conversations and that risk and reward piece. If you're just shouting for your team when the team wins and you leave the bar, you've missed the whole point of being together. That that was the idea. So that kind of leads us to the next point. Leaders are responsible to build social groups. I mean, that's that's part of what we're talking about. Simply saying that a social support doesn't exist is not acceptable. Period. They're out there. Greg, maybe you can give us some examples of different kinds of support groups and how they're being viewed. Sure thing, John.
SPEAKER_01:So purpose-driven gatherings would be the very first step. You look for, or perhaps you create groups around shared values, mentorship circles, community service, or even professional growth. The next thing, have some structured vulnerability. That's right, vulnerability on purpose. Leaders can set aside time for open dialogue about challenges. Vulnerability builds trust. It brings the team associated with a business or operational change together and share the list of risks and encourage the team approach to finding a solution. And then there's cross-gender inspiration. Borrow from the women's intentional models of connection, adapt them for diverse groups for men, increase the size of the tent, and some people would reference a way for the department to responsible for, can share and grow towards developing a solution and encouraging cooperation. But you know, the key is balance as practice. Schedule friendships like you schedule meetings. Connection doesn't happen by accident.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And to that last point, scheduling time for friendships. I made it a point to call the friends on my list at least twice a year to keep that connection and to make myself available for my friends in case they needed to call me for whatever they wanted to talk about. I really mean putting a date on the calendar to make sure that my closest friends get a call twice a year. Hopefully, the friends that are closest to you meet maybe a little bit more often than that. But those that term of professional friends is usually where they're very busy and they don't have a ton of time to talk casually. It usually is more job-oriented. But you'd be surprised the response in case you did give them a call and how that does help take that next step to make a professional friend a close friend. So let me bring up one other point about the whole concept of being a friend. And it's kind of silly. Be positive. Good God. It really is that simple. Learn how to be an optimist because nobody wants to go and talk to somebody who is just down in the dumps every time you call them. It's kind of hard to take that next step. Optimism is something that is a focus. That half full and half-empty glass is probably the best example anyone will ever give you. It is half full. Trust me, it's half full. And just start from there. Greg?
SPEAKER_01:No, John, I agree with a glass is half full, and I think the water is clear. There you go. Right? Start off with that intent. And imagine if every leader, every single leader, business leader, had a circle of peers, not just colleagues, but real friends, who could say, guess what? I know we're going through. I've been there too.
SPEAKER_00:And you've had that experience when you were in executive positions where you've had peers create that kind of friendship, that connection. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:And it's so meaningful and so needed.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I'm I'm gonna stop you there because I know that you also had an interesting conversation when you've been in the private jets. Yeah. And you're sitting with VPs and other professionals and the president of the organization. And wow, I mean, all of a sudden you understand they're talking to you as a peer. And the conversations change. It isn't business, it's the person that's on the plane. Am I right? You're right. Right. So, I mean, that's that's part of taking that next step. Whenever you're engaging in other people, you're dealing with peers or superiors, they're still human beings. They still want that connection of being with other people. So, Greg, maybe you can take us to some other ideas.
SPEAKER_01:So let's talk about some other practical ideas. Peer mentoring circles. Those are small groups of leaders. They meet maybe monthly to share lessons and struggles. Something like the HR department, kind of a think tank, but not really a formal think tank. Maybe a table in a conference room, you know, kind of casual, once a quarter, and maybe it's a two-pizza meeting. So not it's too small, but not too large either, as far as participants. Next idea is shared projects. Volunteer work, community bills, creative workshops, all that stuff fosters deeper bonds. And as a leader, you can create workshops to create the atmosphere of thinking outside of that box. Your team could be the experts on developing a community project. And I've seen some great examples. You know, we all are familiar with big brother, big sister programs and the like, uh trash on the highway. People do that together, working in food pantries. All these programs have changed management teams to being open to new opportunities. And the connection with the community, and that's key. The connection with the community that you never knew existed is incredible.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that shared moment where everybody's helping the community. It does a lot. And it's also another concept of shared story forums, where leaders exchange personal stories to normalize vulnerability. They call these groups, like there's one group called the Storytellers for Change, and they conduct workshops to facilitate and help organizations seeking to empower, engage, and impact the learning process to tell stories. And it's part of the whole process of being in leadership. It fuels the enhancement of that human connection that we all are trying to suggest in this podcast and to get people out of their shells. And then there's the wellness-based meetings, like they call them meetups for hiking or fitness or mindful sessions combined with health connections. And I think this is one of the best because there's such a concentration on wellness now and will help you find like-minded people. And in that process, you're creating a social environment. Almost every health club that I have ever been part of, and okay, I should do more at the health club, but that's a different story. They create social events to introduce members to each other. Because then you understand that if you have a friend at the health club, you're going to have a better tendency to come back. And most of all, it's about you. Meeting people is something that is common with everyone else. And it's a healthy thing that you're trying to accomplish. That's probably the biggest goal of a wellness meetup.
SPEAKER_01:So for those of you listening, pick one idea, just one. Imagine how it would reshape your leadership journey. But the key here is as we've talked about before, starting. Just get started. You know, don't go through with that I could have, I should have, I want to. You know the rest. You know how that plays out. Engagements with others looking for interaction and friendships are there. You have to make an effort for the process to happen.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I I had a friend who said more like a fortune cookie message of starving man waits a long time for a duck to fly into the mouth. You must make the effort. Complaining about loneliness and isolation is just a waste of time. Turn the page, make the effort, and you'll find the results are there. So, in closing, leadership is not a solo act. True strength comes from community. Balance is really the challenge that we have been talking about. Living fully isn't just working endlessly. And it's the next generation that's looking and watching on what you're setting as an example. By building authentic support groups and teaching leaders how to make that connection skill, that is emotional intelligence and action. So here's the invitation. Don't just lead, connect. Don't just manage, befriend. Don't just survive, thrive together. That's the message. And I hope it helps. So if you like what you've heard, I've written a book called Building Your Leadership Toolbox, and we talk about tools like this. And it's available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and other sites. The podcast is what you've been listening to. Thank you so much. It's also available on Apple, Google, and Spotify. A lot of what we talk about is from Dr. Durst and his MBR program. If you'd like to know more about Dr. Durst, you can find out on SuccessGrowthAcademy.com. And if you'd like to contact us, please send me a line. It's wando seventy five periodjw at gmail.com. And the music has been brought to you by my grandson. So we want to hear from you. Drop me a line. Tell me what's going on, what you like, and what you would like to hear about. It has always helped us to create content. Thanks, Greg. This was fun.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks, John. As always. Next time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.