Ego and Humility, The Two-Edge Sword of Leadership

What happens to a team when confidence turns brittle and the smartest person in the room insists on being the only mind that matters? Greg and I pull back the curtain on the real tension leaders face every day: using ego to step forward while using humility to keep the room speaking up. Through a candid story of an insecure yet brilliant manager and the breakthrough of “11 minds over one,” we show how cultures don’t collapse from missed metrics first—they collapse when conversation dies.

Across this deep-dive, we map the practical pros and cons of ego and humility: how healthy ego fuels decisive action, bold bets, and clear direction, and how unchecked ego breeds micromanagement, resistance to feedback, and blame. We highlight humility’s hard value—credibility, adaptability, and the resilience to learn out loud—so teams take smart risks and surface issues earlier. You’ll hear three self-check signals to gauge your balance: your reflex to feedback, your language around wins, and your behavior under pressure. Each signal becomes a mirror leaders can use to protect trust and performance.

We don’t stop at theory. You’ll get two moves to try within 24 hours: ask a top performer what they wish you’d do differently—and don’t defend your response—and give specific recognition that names the effort, the risk, and the result. We also unpack why “thank you” and handwritten notes are not fluff but leadership’s currency, artifacts that employees keep and cultures remember. The throughline is simple and strong: courage declares the path, listening discovers the best path, and trust compounds results beyond any single hero.

Subscribe for more practical leadership tools, share this with a manager who needs a nudge, and leave a review telling us which signal you’re working on this week.

Transcript

Framing Ego And Humility In Leadership

Why Executive Roles Attract Big Egos

The Cost Of Results-Only Leadership

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success, Secrets, and Stories. I'm your host, John Wondolowski, and I'm here with my co-host and friend, Greg Powell. Greg? Hey everybody. And when we put together this podcast, we wanted to put out a helping hand and help that next generation and help answer the question of what does it mean to be a leader? Today we want to talk about a subject that I think supports that concept. So today we're actually going to talk about a subject that is, I think, timely leadership's dichotomy of ego and humility. And when I was researching for this podcast, I found a wonderful article by Brett Gleason, a Forbes.com article from April 2024. I'm not going to read, but you should read this article. It is wonderful. It is very well done. And it was pretty close to the things that I thought was important to share with this audience and helping people in terms of leadership and what's involved in understanding the simple truth that great leaders need both ego and humility. You don't get to be an executive, a vice president, a president of any organization without having a developed ego. I mean, it goes without saying that it's a requirement. But one element of that personality is too much and is destructive. It is counterintuitive to say that you need a balance, but you know, sometimes ego is a requirement. Leadership isn't about choosing between ego and humility, though. It's about understanding how the two coexist, how they complement each other, and how the absence of balance can derail teams, cultures, and entire organizations. So I want to share some of the concepts today to unpack the pros and cons of ego and humility. And let's talk honestly about leaders that need to navigate between these two qualities effectively. One of the most important things to understand is that executive leadership requires to develop ego. You simply don't reach that level of responsibility without a sense of self-worth, confidence, and an internal drive to produce results. Leadership roles demand decisiveness. They require someone willing to take ownership, put initiatives forward, and stand behind difficult decisions. The problem is ego is sometimes the only skill the executive brings to the table. In those organizations, especially publicly traded companies, the pressure from the stockholders is relentless. Growth, margins, dividends become the primary matrix of success. In those environments, leaders are often rewarded for results, regardless of the impact to the people or to the systems. So is it soft skills, culture, employee well-being? These things can easily fall to the bottom of the priority list. And yet the most valuable asset any organization has is its people. You can squeeze extra dollars out of the system in the short term. But if you want to see how quickly a company can be destroyed, put it in the hands of a purely ego-driven leadership.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

So let's talk about the other extreme: leadership without ego. On the opposite end of the spectrum, we see leaders with a deeply developed sense of humility. These are leaders who often never aspire to executive roles. They consistently put others ahead of themselves, sometimes to the point of losing sight of their own career goals. They value family, balance, and personal fulfillment over titles or power. Ironically, these leaders are often the ones employees most want to work for. But humility without ego has its own challenges. Leaders who are overly humble may hesitate to step forward, advocate for themselves, or push boldly on initiatives. They may struggle to take command when situations require decisive action.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

And I think ego is a double-edged sword. On one side, ego gives leaders confidence. It allows them to make those bold decisions, take calculated risks, and inspire others with conviction. It fuels vision. But on the other side, unchecked ego becomes a barrier. It blinds leaders to their limitations. It shuts down diverse perspectives. It eliminates most of the leadership skills that are truly important. That's that listening skill.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

That overconfidence leads directly to poor outcomes and reduced team efficiency.

When Humility Lacks A Backbone

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yeah. So it's almost like a duh at this point. Because you've lived through this, none of this is surprising. You and I, in terms of our career, have dealt with people with egos. And one that particularly stands out for me is I had the opportunity to work for somebody who had an IQ that was outstanding, one of the smartest people I ever worked for. The challenge wasn't his intelligence, but his insecurity. He didn't have a college degree. And despite his brilliance, he carried out deep resentment to anyone who had a degree. That insecurity shaped his leadership style. When I was promoted, he made it a point that he expected me to supervise my team, but to match or exceed his previous performance. In his approach to the job, he was the purchasing agent, the inventory manager, the software programmer, the budget submitter. He was doing everything at a supervisory level. And in order to try to match the details that he was doing in his job, I was spending 10 to 12 hours a day trying to replicate his workload. I learned an incredible amount of information and wonderful training to be a supervisor and to understand the nuances behind a scene to make that position work. It made me a better leader. But was also the biggest problem to deal with was the combative environment that existed between the two of us as I was going through this learning of how to be a manager.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

You know, John, I remember you calling me about that manager. I think you were more wound up than I'd ever heard you before.

Ego’s Double-Edged Sword

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah, he was constantly testing me, looking for gaps in my education, poking holes in my leadership style, challenging every decision I made. So, okay. A year of this, and I was going to the performance review. I had exceeded every one of his performance matrix that he had set. And because of the records he had set, that's why he was promoted. There was that sense of jealousy of me being able to match everything he did and the fear that the same kind of result could follow him. Despite that, he had downgraded my review because the organization as a whole missed the safety target. I qualified it saying that my department was 100% compliant. We had no incidents, no injuries during that same period of time. But he believed that I should own part of the organization's failure. Well, I had the resignation letter in my pocket. And at that moment, I handed over my resignation. He was shocked. And he said something I will never forget. How can somebody as dumb as you be as successful as you have been in the last year?

SPEAKER_00 8:49

John, that is disgraceful, unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

How the heck did you respond? Well, I said something that came straight from the gut, and it was absolutely true. The team's performance you delivered the year prior was based on your mind, one mind. I beat your results this year because I used 11 minds. Every member of my team contributed. You may be intelligent, but your IQ can compete with the collective intelligence of my team.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

That moment changed everything. So, John, let's talk about when ego destroys company culture. That story perfectly illustrates one of the key points from the article. Ego destroys conversation. People actually stop speaking up. Innovation slows down and creativity dies.

A Manager’s Insecurity And Control

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Exactly. And that was really the essence of the change. I listened. But ego isn't inherently bad. It's ego without humility that becomes toxic. So let's just do some quick pros and cons. And this came from the article that I thought was very well done. The pros and cons: confidence and assertiveness will inspire teams. Influence and persuade that there's a drive for change. And also it creates that environment where risk taking is more like challenging the status quo. The con arrogance and micromanagement erode trust. Resistance to feedback halts growth. And probably the biggest one is blame shifting that damages credibility.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Let's shift over from humility as a counterbalance. Humility is the counterweight to ego. It keeps leaders grounded, it allows them to admit mistakes, seek feedback, and actually learn from others. An interesting saying is humble yourself or life will do it for you. I kind of like that one. People don't follow leaders who pretend to be perfect, they follow leaders who are real and authentic. They can withstand failure or criticism. This comes from their sense of intrinsic value of being a human being first. So when they fall, they don't give up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

And humility fuels adaptability. Leaders who are humble can pivot, adjust, evolve. And in today's business environment, adaptability is everything.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

So let's talk about finding the balance. Highly effective leaders balance their ego and their humility through one critical skill. We've talked about this before: the wisdom to listen.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Yeah, yeah. And ego says, I can do this. Humility says I can't do this alone. That balance creates trust, accountability, and innovation.

Beating One Mind With Eleven Minds

SPEAKER_00 11:49

So let's talk about a key tool to highlight balance. The word thank you. So what is often overlooked is a very simple tool to help you find balance in your own communication. And it's the simplest of all tools that you will ever hear saying thank you in terms of recognition for the efforts and the challenges and the risks that people have endured. Simply the recognition of what others are doing around us reinforces the component of simply being humble.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

And you know, we've talked about this subject in the past. And a letter is an incredible tool that has the effect in terms of how a leader is perceived. It's interesting about a letter that recognizes the leader saying something to others about their part of their own success and giving the people that are receiving the letter a share of that success. And we've talked about this subject before. A letter has an incredible effect in terms of how a leader is perceived. It's interesting about a letter is that the recognition of the leader saying that others are part of their own success. It's that concept of being seen. And it does take a sense of humility to be able to recognize other people were important in terms of what you've achieved and whatever you've accomplished because you achieved it as a team.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

John, that's the point of this podcast to demonstrate the sense of humility for your team. And if you want to understand leadership from the perspective of humility, probably the best example that I can think of is Nelson Mandela. He said, as I have said, first thing is to be honest with yourself. You can never have an impact on society if you cannot change yourself. Great peacemakers are all people of great integrity, honesty, and yes, humility.

How Ego Kills Conversation

Pros And Cons Of Ego

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Let's try to bring this home in a way that really sticks. Because if we stop at balance of ego and humility, it sounds great, but it still feels vague. Leadership can't live in vague. Leadership lives in decisions, patterns, being decisive, and in the moment, especially in moments that are high pressure. Emotions are loud, and people are watching how you're going to handle yourself. So there's a central truth. Start as plainly as we can. Great leadership requires both ego and humility. Ego provides courage. Humility provides wisdom. Ego helps you step forward. Humility helps you to stay grounded. Ego helps you to declare a direction. Humility helps you discover the best direction. Ego helps you carry the responsibility. Humility helps you share credit and build with other people. That's really the point we're trying to make here. And we have to be careful because in everyday decisions and everyday conversations, ego can often be used as an insult. But ego isn't automatically arrogance. Ego isn't automatically narcissism. Ego is a healthy form of self-belief, internal drive, and identity strength. It's part of what you say. You can own this, but I can learn from this. And I can stand through the storm without folding. But here's the catch ego becomes dangerous when it turns into something fragile, when your confidence depends on always being right, when your status depends on winning, when your identity depends on someone else losing, that's when ego stops being a tool and starts to become a weapon. And that's when the culture starts to suffer. Yeah. And because the first thing ego destroys is not performance. It destroys conversation. And when conversation dies, everything else dies after it. Trust, creativity, innovation, ownership. People stop raising issues early. They stop offering ideas. They stop talking about smart risk. They stop being honest. And eventually they stop caring. That's why humility matters so much. Humility doesn't mean that you're weak. It doesn't mean that you're passive. It doesn't mean you lack ambition. Humility simply means you understand a truth that every strong leader eventually learns. You're not the only mind in the room. And if you lead like you are, you will eventually lose the best minds you have. That's your team. Let me tie this back to the story I talked about earlier, because it wasn't just a dramatic moment. It was about a lesson with a cost. That a manager didn't fail because he wasn't smart. He was smart. He failed because he needed to be the smartest person in the room. And that's the tragedy. He didn't just damage relationships, he limited his results. His one mind, no matter how gifted, would eventually hit the ceiling. But a team of minds, aligned, respected, has the ability to break the ceiling and do what wasn't possible in the past. So if you're listening today and you're a leader or you want to be a leader, here's the question worth asking yourself. When was the last time I got stronger because I listened? Because according to what we've been discussing, the most effective leaders balance ego and humility through a critical skill, the wisdom of listening. Listening is not a soft skill. Listening is a powerful skill. It's strategic. It's how you catch problems earlier. It's how you engage people. It's how you learn what not to do. It's how you make decisions to hold up when the pressure hits. Now, I want to make this a little practical. There are three leadership signals that you can watch for in terms of signals on whether you're in balance with your ego and humility or not. Greg, why don't you start us off and go over the signals for us?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Sure thing, John. So signal one, how do you react to feedback? When someone challenges your idea, you get curious or do you get defensive? Do you ask questions or do you shut the conversation down? Leaders with balanced ego can hold confidence and curiosity at the very same time. Leaders with inflated ego treat feedback like an attack. They take it personally. Signal number two how do you talk about wins? Do you naturally say, here's what my team did? Or do you default and say, here's what I did? Because language reveals mindset. The words matter. It reveals where you place value, and it reveals whether you see leadership as a solo performance or as an act of building others. Signal number three. How do you behave under pressure? This one really matters because pressure exposes what's real. When deadlines tighten and outcomes are at stake, do you clamp down and control everything? Or do you communicate clearly, ask for input, and trust your people to execute? Pressure is where humility and ego either work together or they collide. And that's a great framework. It makes it easier to self-evaluate.

Humility As The Counterweight

SPEAKER_01 20:03

And that's the point. Because leadership isn't about having the right beliefs, it's about building the right habits. And one of the simplest habits we mentioned today is the one that is probably the most powerful. Just saying thank you. Recognition isn't fluff, it is leadership's currency. It tells people I see you. And it tells them their efforts matter. It reinforces humility in a way that doesn't weaken authority, it strengthens trust. And I want to take that one step further. A genuine thank you says it out loud, and it really means that it matters. But there's another tool that you mentioned, Greg: the impact of a letter or a written note. There's something about a written recognition that people don't forget. It becomes an artifact, a reminder, proof that their contribution mattered. In a world where people feel invisible, a note can become the most human thing a leader can do.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

So now before we close, I want to offer one final thought. The goal isn't to eliminate ego, the goal is to mature it. A mature ego says, I have the courage to lead. And a humble leader adds, I have the wisdom to listen. And ego says, We can do this. And humility says, we can't do it alone. And if you could hold those two truths at the same time, you become the kind of leader people trust. Not because you're perfect, but because you're real. Not because you never fail, but because you learn openly. Not because you dominate conversations, but because you create an environment where people feel safe to contribute. John? So if someone wants to apply this. Starting tomorrow. What would you tell them to do first?

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Start small, but start intentionally. There are two practical actions that you should actually try to implement within the next twenty-four hours if this sparks anything in terms of your leadership. First, ask one of your strongest people a question you would normally not ask. What's the one thing you wish I would do differently as a leader? And then they answer it is your job not to defend yourself. Your job is to listen. That's humility in action. Second. Recognize someone specifically. Not a generic good job. Something real. I noticed what you did. I noticed the risk you took. I noticed the effort you made. And I am grateful for your service. If you do those two things consistently, listening and recognition, you'll start to build that muscle of humility. And the more humility you build, the safer your ego becomes, the healthier your confidence becomes, and the stronger the team will become. So let's wrap it up. Here's some real simple takeaways. Greg, why don't you help us with the takeaway?

SPEAKER_00 23:25

So, John, if your ego is too big, you're gonna lose people. If your humility is too small, you're gonna lose growth. But when ego and humility are aligned, you gain what every leader ultimately wants, and that is trust. And trust is the foundation of sustainable success.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Perfect. Well said. And hopefully this will be some help. Take the time, take the moment, and put this into practice. And I know you will find it as being one of our better podcasts because this is so needed right now in our in our world. So if you like what you've heard, I've written a book called Building Your Leadership Toolbox, and we talk about tools like this. And it's available on Amazon and Barnes Nouble and other sites. The podcast is what you've been listening to. Thank you so much. It's also available on Apple, Google, and Spotify. A lot of what we talk about is from Dr. Durst in his MBR program. If you'd like to know more about Dr. Durst, you can find out on SuccessGrowthAcademy.com. And if you'd like to contact us, please send me a line. It's wando seventy five periodjw at gmail.com. And the music has been brought to you by my grandson. So we want to hear from you. Drop me a line. Tell me what's going on, what you like, and what you would like to hear about. It has always helped us to create content. Thanks, Greg. This was fun.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Thanks, John. As always. Next time. Yeah.