Business Cycles And Career Cycles Explained = Developed Satisfaction

Your career was never meant to be a straight line, and trying to force it into one is where a lot of stress begins. Greg and I break down a simple model that instantly makes work feel more navigable: business cycles and career cycles move through expansion, peak, contraction, and bottom phases. When you can name the phase you are in, you stop spiraling over normal change and start making clearer choices about your next move, your energy, and what success really means right now.

We walk through what each business cycle phase looks like inside a company, from the excitement of expansion to the intensity of peak, the hard decisions of contraction, and the reset at the bottom. Then we map that same bell curve onto real career development, including why mid-career pressure can lead to burnout, why “contraction” doesn’t mean you are less valuable, and how job satisfaction often shifts from chasing titles to doing meaningful work and building others.

We also challenge the most common retirement narrative. Retirement isn’t an ending, it’s an accomplishment, and it deserves its own plan and its own curve. John shares how writing, teaching, and podcasting became a new beginning after retiring, and we talk about what leaders can do to support employees across every decade while avoiding lazy age assumptions and helping people see their options.

If this helps you see your path differently, subscribe, share the show with a friend, and leave a review. Where are you on your career curve right now?

Transcript

Why Cycles Matter For Careers

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success, Secrets, and Stories. I'm your host, John Wondolowski, and I'm here with my co-host and friend, Greg Powell. Greg? Hey everybody. And when we put together this podcast, we wanted to put out a helping hand and help that next generation and help answer the question of what does it mean to be a leader? Today we want to talk about a subject that I think supports that concept. So, Greg and I want to dig into a topic that affects every single person listening. Whether you're starting out in your career, right in the middle of it, or thinking about what comes next in terms of retirement. We're all going to talk about that relationship between business cycles and career cycles. And most importantly, to understand how both can help you find real job satisfaction at every stage of your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

So, John, this is one of those topics that sounds somewhat academic on the surface, but when you really break it down, it becomes very, very personal. This isn't just about economics or org theory. It's about how people experience work, how they experience success, pressure, and eventually transition.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Yeah. And, you know, like both of us have gone through MBA programs and we've learned about the business cycle, sure, in a very structured kind of format, but it doesn't always discuss how those cycles show up in our careers. How we as leaders need to understand both how we truly support our teams and what it does it means in terms of those cycles.

The Four Phases Of Business Cycles

SPEAKER_00 1:57

So, John, let's get into understanding the business cycle. Let's start with the basics. When people talk about a business cycle, they're usually describing it as four distinct phases. It's oftentimes visualized as the old-fashioned bell curve. Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

So the first phase is defined as expansion. This is when a business activity is growing. Orders are increasing, companies are hiring, production's ramping up, everybody's happy, enthusiasm is high. If you can picture that bell curve, it'd be the far left-hand side, and you see everything trending up in like a 45-degree angle.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

You know, John, expansion usually is exciting. Boy, the whole organization is energized. New ideas are being funded, new roles are being created, and people feel like opportunities are endless.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Yeah. Yeah. And then we move into the second phase, which is kind of important. It's the peak. And this is where the organization is operating at maximum capacity. Manufacturing is running at full tilt. Sales and marketing teams are pushing hard. Profits and employment levels are typically at their highest.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

You know, John, it's also where pressure is intense because expectations are high, margins are tight, and there's very little room for error.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

And then comes the third phase: contraction. Demand starts to soften, consumer spending slows, inventory starts to build up, cash flow begins to tighten. And unfortunately, this is often where layoffs start to happen.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

And this is the part of the curve where reality starts to set in. Optimism fades, and leadership has to shift from growth to survival mode.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah, and you know, sometimes it depends on the product. This could be like a three-year, four-year kind of environment. It could be a 10-year kind of environment, but these phases are going to happen. And sooner or later, you're going to hit phase four, the bottom. Demand is at its lowest point. Organizations focus on efficiency, clearing inventory, reducing debt, and stabilizing operations.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

And for mature organizations, this cycle doesn't just happen once. Product lines go through their own mini-cycles all the time. New versions come out, old ones are phased out, and the process starts over again.

Careers Follow A Bell Curve Too

SPEAKER_01 4:28

And that's the important point that I was talking about in terms of time frames. Companies that invest in research and development are often intentionally restarting that bell curve over and over again. But organizations that are relying on one single product or a one-trick pony, that's where they're most vulnerable when products reach the end of their life cycle. Now, here's where it gets really interesting because careers follow a bell curve as well. They do. And early in your career, often you'll start to, you'll finish your degree, and your expansion phase will start to kick in. You'll have that energy and adaptability and motivation and willingness to learn. You're trying to figure out who you are professionally and where do you fit.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

That's usually your 20s and maybe your 30s, because you're building skills, you're proving yourself, and you're learning how the working world actually functions.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Yeah. And then comes the peak phase where it mostly happens for people in their 30s and 40s, and sometimes in their early 50s. This is when you're the most productive in terms of your career. You built the experience, the expertise, you have the credibility and you have the confidence.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

You know what works, you know what doesn't work, and you can deliver results without burning the same amount of energy that you did earlier.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

But eventually there's natural contraction. And this is where the conversation often gets uncomfortable. Energy levels change, priorities shift, and the next generation is gently pushing you forward.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

You know, that doesn't mean someone is less capable or even less valuable. In fact, many people are at the height of their effectiveness during this phase. But the way they define success starts to change a bit.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Exactly. Material goals may already have been met. Family life becomes more central. There's a sense of accomplishment that comes from seeing long-term efforts that are starting to pay off.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

So as you start to think about rethinking contraction, look at career burnout in your 50s. Why that standard advice that you used to get, why it fails. The diagnosis that happens between the 30s and the 50s, and there's burnout. But then there's recovery, moving beyond those surface fixes. You know, I've noticed, John, that contraction doesn't mean disengagement.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

No, it doesn't. And I've talked to countless people who said that this stage of their lives, I'm not going quietly in the night. Their drive is still there. And they're more selective on how they use the energy that they have at that point.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

That's right, John. And they're not interested in endless hours or constant upheaval anymore. No, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

They know what works for them, they know what is meaningful work, and not just movement for the sake of movement.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Eventually, though, everyone reaches a point where they start thinking about, hmm, what comes next?

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Yeah, and that's the bottom phase of a traditional career curve, where activities in terms of employment, the transitions into retirement start to kick in. And this is where I've think we've got it wrong in terms of the narrative. You're right, John, because most people think of retirement as an ending. Yeah, it's not an ending. It's actually an accomplishment or a result. It should be really looked at as an achievement. I've seen a lot of other studies that have talked about what it means in terms of leisure satisfaction, and that's not what I'm talking about. But if you want to go and do something in terms of leisure, don't let it be that day that you retire. You need to work on it beforehand. And the other part that I think people understand is that there's job satisfaction, and it also can be as important in terms of leisure time. Overall, life satisfaction becomes more closely tied to retirement satisfaction.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

And John, you know what? That makes a whole lot of sense. Quality of life becomes the focus.

unknown 8:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

And the key insight is that retirement needs to be its own bell curve. Activities, interest, and contributions that you can make in retirement fulfill you, and that's not by accident. They actually have to be planned. John, I think you've lived this firsthand. Yeah, I have. I think that's probably worthwhile to try to talk about. I retired at 67, and I did not consider it as a chapter complete. I started to write a book, and that was one of the things I always wanted to do with my free time, and finish a book called Building Your Leadership Toolbox. And it was based on the teachings of Michael Durce, who's a PhD, on his concept of management by responsibility, something that I took early in my career. And you know, John, that wasn't something you had planned decades earlier. Not at all. I mean, we started thinking about that doing this podcast around that time. And when I turned 70, I actually started a second book with Dr. Durst directly focusing on an hourly workers' journey into a leadership position using MBR as the framework of the book.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Now that's a new career curve.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Yeah, and we're still growing. And who knows what else we're going to be doing, like on this podcast? I just shifted directions. Retirement didn't say it was the end. It for me sent it was a new beginning.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

So this brings us to leadership. Managers and leaders have an enormous influence in this area.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yes, they do. Your employees are at different stages in their career curves. And you have to have more insight in terms of not just the business cycles, but almost how it affects the individuals you'll be talking to. Certainly more than the guys at the bar. Yeah, exactly. Employees want help to understand their options. They want to know if their role fits into the organization's current phase. And what does that mean in terms of the business curve for the future for themselves?

SPEAKER_00 10:58

So let's talk about career development by decade. Let's talk specifics. People in their 20s are focused on building stability and earning a living wage. They want to know how to succeed. When they get into their 30s, they're refining those skills and aligning themselves for the organizations that fit their values. In their 40s, many are looking to maximize performance and move into executive leadership. And in their 50s, there's often a shift towards legacy, mentoring, teaching, and helping others succeed.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah. And then the challenge comes with those folks who are in their 60s, where age-related assumptions can start to creep in. Leaders must avoid negative tone, focus on their value, their experience, and their contribution. So, John, what's that million-dollar question? Yeah. Can you find job satisfaction in the role that you're currently in? Because that's what drives engagement. Exactly. Job satisfaction fuels ownership, development, resilience. And sometimes satisfaction comes from growth, not promotion.

Job Satisfaction Without Always Rising

SPEAKER_00 12:11

So, John, when you step back and look at everything we've talked about today, what really stands out to me is how much pressure people put on themselves to think that their career should always be moving in one direction, and that direction is being up.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Yeah. I mean, we've been conditioned to think that if you're not climbing, you're slipping. But careers don't work that way. They move in cycles. That's the point of this podcast. Just like businesses do. And once you understand that bell curve of a career, the anxiety starts to fade. Because suddenly change doesn't feel like a failure. Yes. You know, there's you're expanding your horizons. That that peak, that contraction, that bottom. Those are all phases that are good or bad. They're natural. That's the point. Organizations plan for them, yet individuals are rarely told that they're allowed to experience that same kind of cycle approach.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

And when people don't have that framework, they start internalizing. They're internalizing what's really just a normal transition.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Right. And, you know, they start to go through that, what's wrong with me? And that's not really a question that they should be contemplating. It's where am I on my own career in terms of career? And what does that phase offer me?

SPEAKER_00 13:36

So that's a big shift, especially when you think about how different career stages actually bring different kinds of value. Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

They do. Early in your career, value came with that sense of energy and learning and adaptability. In the middle years, you're talking about more execution, enterprise, and developing leadership. And that's where the wisdom and perspective starts to show in terms of the ability to develop others. But too often only that middle phase actually gets celebrated. Yeah, and that's where the mistake is. Both for individuals and organizations. When contraction is misunderstood, people disengage. When it's respected, people actually become intentional, more focused, and often more impactful. I think that's where job satisfaction really becomes a through line. Yeah, it does. Satisfaction isn't always about doing more. Sometimes it's about doing what matters. Growth does not mean a promotion. It can mean more of a contribution, a balance, a mentoring in a business environment. And John, that ties directly into leadership. Absolutely. Leadership means that you understand business cycles. And, you know, if your employees may not understand that, but that is something that you can help them with. You can give them the insights in terms of what that means in terms of the responsibility of the company and also the responsibility to themselves in terms of that career bell curve. People want to understand their role and how it fits into the organization. And that's what it means for their future. But not the guys at the bar. Yeah, the guys at the bar really don't understand what we're talking about in terms of business cycles and career cycles. And what I guess I'm trying to suggest is that leaders need to set the tone and to help educate people on what those things really mean. Sometimes you're not going to actually have that conversation, but you have to understand how it relates to the people that you work with. When they're looking for how they should be perceived and how they should be recognized, it's part of the ability to understand that they're successful. It isn't that they've lost their talents when they're near retirement. It isn't that they've are too experienced, or it isn't that they've lost trust. It's just that next phase. Which is also something, John, I think you've lived. Right. I mean, I retired thinking that that chapter of working has finished. But at the same time, I was learning that it's just I need to restructure my goals and my anticipations on what I'm going to be doing on my next curve. Writing, teaching, podcasting, all those became my next curve. And that certainly didn't happen by accident. No, actually, that just like my career, I was planning for that satisfaction in retirement. The purpose isn't to retire, it's to always continue to be curious and find a way to contribute to your legacy and to contribute to other people. That's really the part that I've always enjoyed.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

That's a powerful message, John, especially for people who are starting to think about what's going to come next. It is.

Resources, Contact, And Closing

SPEAKER_01 17:26

And it circles back to the bigger idea here. Careers are not linear. They never were. The problem is that it's a curve. And to pretend that that curve doesn't exist is not really looking at the whole picture. So when people understand where they're off, oh my gosh, they make better decisions. They do. And they stop fighting the reality and start working with it. They become more adaptable, more resilient, and ultimately more satisfied. And that's really what we're talking about. Yeah, satisfaction. No titles, no timelines, no comparisons. Satisfaction comes from understanding yourself, understanding maybe the organization you work for or used to work for, and to choose how you want to move forward. Change is the only constant. Man, that's so true. And change isn't bad. You just have to be prepared for it. Leaders who modeled that adaptability give people permission to do the same. So if there's one takeaway. Yeah. Know your curve. Respect it. Don't assume that the best part of your career is behind you. It's it's what's in front of you that you're supposed to be planning for. That's the goal. Yep. It's satisfaction. And hopefully this podcast has helped you understand a little bit about looking at your own curve and how that's going to influence what you're going to be doing in the future. I think that is really the goal of us doing this podcast is to tell you that it's always a changing environment and change is good. Have some fun with it because that's really at the end of the day, people are looking at how you handle that transition yourself. And the more open you are about your career path, the more that they understand it too. And I hope that helps. So if you like what you've heard, I've written a book called Building Your Leadership Toolbox, and we talk about tools like this. And it's available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and other sites. The podcast is what you've been listening to. Thank you so much. It's also available on Apple, Google, and Spotify. A lot of what we talk about is with Dr. Durst and his MBR program. If you'd like to know more about Dr. Durst, you can find out on SuccessGrowthAcademy.com. And if you'd like to contact us, please send me a line. That's wando seventy-five periodjw at gmail.com. And the music has been brought to you by my grandson. So we want to hear from you. Drop me a line. Tell me what's going on, what you like, and what you would like to hear about. And it's always helped us to create content. Thanks, Greg. This was fun. Thanks, John.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

As always. Next time.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yeah.