Stop Praising Exhaustion As Dedication

Burnout doesn’t show up out of nowhere, it’s often built into the way work is designed. We dig into leadership’s responsibility to reduce job-related stress and why the goal isn’t a stress-free workplace, but a workplace where pressure stays productive instead of turning into mental health harm. Stress is part of life, but leaders still have real power over how teams experience it day to day.

We walk through the World Health Organization’s workplace risk factors that drive burnout, including excessive workload, understaffing, unclear roles, inflexible or unsocial hours, unsafe conditions, job insecurity, and lack of career development. Then we take it a step further with a Management by Responsibility (MBR) perspective: when burnout is widespread, the uncomfortable question is why leadership allows the system to stay that way. We talk about matching accountability with authority, removing low-value work, protecting recovery time, and treating culture, communication, and role clarity as core leadership duties, not “nice-to-haves.”

We also explore a practical distinction that changes how you lead under pressure: stress as an opportunity versus stress as a threat. When demands feel meaningful, manageable, and supported, stress can sharpen focus and build engagement. When demands feel unsafe, unclear, or out of control, people shift into self-protection and burnout grows. We close with concrete resilience tools leaders can model and teach, plus a bigger conversation about acceptance, emotion, and learning from hard events without reliving them.

Subscribe, share this with a leader who needs it, and leave a review so more people can find the show. What’s one change you would make to reduce threat stress on your team?

Transcript

Why Leaders Must Address Stress

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success, Secrets, and Stories. I'm your host, John Wondolowski, and I'm here with my co-host and friend, Greg Powell. Greg? Hey everybody. And when we put together this podcast, we wanted to put out a helping hand and help that next generation and help answer the question of what does it mean to be a leader? Today we want to talk about a subject that I think supports that concept. So today I wanted to talk about leadership in terms of the responsibility to reduce job-related stress. And Greg and I have talked about this, and I think Dr. Durce, the author of Management by Responsibility, offered a very blunt truth about stress. The only time life is stress-free is when it's over. It's harsh, but stress is part of life. It's part of work. So let's start with a simple premise. Stress is unavoidable. But it's the kind of stress that harms the mental health that is a different issue entirely. The goal is not to eliminate stress, it is to recognize the forms of stress that help people grow from those that it can cause them harm, and then prepare for those harmful ones whenever it's possible. Greg, maybe you can be a little bit more specific on what we mean with stress and how it becomes a true mental health

WHO Drivers Of Workplace Burnout

SPEAKER_01 1:50

issue.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Absolutely, John. You know, both my parents gave me this speech about stress when I was a kid, and then again when I went into college, and then, of course, in the real world. But there's a way to manage it, so we're going to be talking about that. The real drivers of burnout are not just job titles alone. The World Health Organization, or the WHO, identifies several workplace conditions that increase mental health risk, including underuse of skills or being underskilled for the job. Right? Excessive workloads or work pace. And how about understaffing? Long, unsocial or inflexible hours, unsafe or poor physical work conditions. One of my favorites, unclear job role. And we've talked about that. And then job insecurity, inadequate pay, or just playing poor investment in their own career development.

unknown 2:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

And, you know, just talking about those different kinds of jobs, jobs on third shift are one of the biggest challenges for people too. It's just not a social shift. It's you're sleeping when everybody's awake and you're working when everybody's asleep. All those things complicate the element of stress. So, Greg, what is the common element that is on that list for the World Health Organization that describes a risk in terms of the individual's mental health?

SPEAKER_00 3:16

So, John, nearly everything on the list is tied to how work is designed and how work is managed. These are not new problems, but the pace of modern work, including pressure tied to AI and productivity, is what's making things worse. So, what are the warning signs of leadership stress on health? Physical strain, sleep disruption, chronic anxiety, nutritional fatigue, and emotional exhaustion.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Yeah. And as leaders, it's our job to be aware when we see these kinds of conditions and how they interact with our team. And it's also our job to help them to find a way to be effective and to be resilient as possible. But what is really telling is some of the jobs that have the highest sense of stress, according to the WHO. Health and social services, physicians, nurses, first responders, mental health professionals. I mean, you see the theme here. The stress that's in the medical field is there all the time. One of the ones that I think is interesting is EMTs are sometimes paid minimum wage. And these are some of the people that see you first when there's an emergency. Think of the amount of pressure that they're dealing with. And the one that I think is most interesting is teachers and how the pressure is on in terms of demands, but there's also those requirements, there's testing. It is a stressful kind of position.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

So, what are the core structural drivers of burnout as identified by the WHO? So we're talking about management by responsibility, of course. And from that perspective, burnout is not just an unfortunate side effect of modern work, it is often evidence of leadership failure in how the workplace is designed and how it's managed. WHO points to excessive workload, low job control, inflexible hours, and harmful culture as major risks. Those conditions do not appear on their own. Leaders create them, or they tolerate them, or they correct them. And in Dr. Durst's framework, lower stages of leadership ignore or normalize the causes of burnout. But responsible leadership confronts them directly through accountability, alignment, and stewardship. So when burnout is widespread, the real question is not only why employees are struggling, but why leadership allows the system to stay that way.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Another important point is excessive workloads

Burnout As A Leadership Failure

SPEAKER_01 5:55

or unmanageable time pressures. In MBR kind of terms, chronic overload is not a commitment. It is a sign that responsibility has been designed poorly. At lower stages of leadership, overloading is ignored, defended, or sometimes even normalized. At the achievement stage, you can see that there's praise for putting in those extra hours. But it's the responsible leadership that sees the human cost, that resets priorities, removes low-value work, and aligns expectations with the available time and reality of the staff.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

So lack of control over job design, scheduling, or workload. Let's talk about that. MBR teaches that responsibility and authority must match. When people are held accountable but have little control over how the work is going to be done, their stress levels rise quickly. Lower stages of leadership ignore that tension or centralized power. Responsible leadership, though, gives people meaningful influence over priorities, workflow, and decisions. So accountability is matched by real authority.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

And then the one I think is the toughest is inflexible long or unsocial working hours, like I was talking about, that third shift. Unhealthy schedules reveal what leadership normally values. At the lower stages, long hours are ignored, defended, or normalized. We've talked about that already. At the achievement level, they may be celebrated as proof of dedication, but that's the wrong signal. At the responsible level, they reject that kind of logic. It's to protect the recovery time. Redesign the staffing assignments, look at the workflows, and whenever possible, try to make those adjustments to make it a workable environment. That responsible level refuses to confuse exhaustion for effectiveness.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Poor organizational culture, including bullying or role ambiguity. So here we've got culture shows what leaders permit, what they model, and what they reward. But in weaker forms of leadership, harmful behavior is ignored, defended, or sometimes just left unchallenged. Responsible leadership treats culture as a direct obligation. It clarifies roles, it confronts harmful conduct quickly, it strengthens communication, and creates a workplace where people know what is expected and how they will be treated.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Yeah. And taking this all together, these burnout drivers point to the hard truth. Burnout is often less an employee problem than it is a leadership problem. Responsible leaders do not blame the individuals for struggling within a flawed system. They redesign the system for clarity of role, for matching their authority and their accountability, most importantly, setting realistic demands, protecting boundaries, and addressing harmful behaviors early on.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

So before

Stress Opportunity Versus Stress Threat

SPEAKER_00 9:10

we leave the subject of burnout, it might help to look at one more distinction that explains why some stress strengthens people while other stress begins to erode them. So we're going to talk about stress opportunity versus a stress threat. A recent Harvard Business Review article makes an important point. Not all stress is the same. Some stress sharpens focus and helps people rise to a challenge. However, other stress overwhelms people and shuts them down. That distinction helps explain why leadership matters so much.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

And I really like that article that was done by John Miller and Drew Keller on stress. And they talked about the six patterns of stress in terms of the response. The key is that stress alone is not the issue, but it's how people experience the demand and how that relates to stress. As they see it, it is as manageable, meaningful, and supportive stress that can actually be an opportunity. It can sharpen the tension, increase engagement, and improve performance. So in that case, the presence of stress is not a problem. The problem is whether the stress is being interpreted as manageable or unmanageable.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

But when stress is experienced as a threat, the person feels that the demand exceeds their capacity, control, or even their safety. Focus narrows, engagement drops, and energy shifts from performance to self-protection. That is when burnout, disengagement, and mental strain begin to grow. And that is where I think leadership has to pay attention. Because if we create conditions where people constantly experience their work as a threat, then we should not be surprised when burnout, reactivity, disengagement, and mental strain begin to show up.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

And that's why leadership matters. Bottom line. Leadership cannot remove all the stress, but they can influence whether stress is going to be more likely to feel like an opportunity or a threat. It really depends on the conditions and how it's handled. When expectations are clear, tools are available to handle the stress. Authority matches the responsibility. And support is always there. It is a culture that is stable. People are far more likely to be productive and to meet the pressure of stress in a healthy way. Now you might be wondering what

Resilience Skills Leaders Can Teach

SPEAKER_01 11:50

it means to handle stress in a healthy way. Good point. In essence, it means building resilience. Resilience is how we cope with stress, and it is also sometimes how leaders understand and develop people.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

So understanding how to build resilience can help you maintain a healthy perspective in the face of uncertainty. Many people are deeply affected by emotional environments and may mistakenly see that sensitivity as a character flaw. The old message, such as telling boys not to cry, is a clear example of how people are often taught to suppress emotion rather than learn from it. Unless you face difficulty directly, you may never fully develop resilience to life's stresses. That is one reason some young adults struggle, especially when they first enter the workplace. If most of their experience has been in structured academic settings, the reality of work can feel overwhelming at first.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Here are a few points that might be helpful when you're developing that kind of resilience. It comes from an article I found that I thought was pretty much on the point as a help me guide. And it's by Lawrence Robinson and Melinda Smith. And you can find it on helpguide.org from their February 26th. Stay focused during stress, that you can understand the environment that you're in, but remain flexible enough to respond productively. In stressful situations, one of the best things that you can do is step back. And I can put an exclamation point on that. That's the biggest thing that you could pick up. Ask for input. Don't assume that you know everything that's going on. Bring and engage your team. That gives you a chance to refocus your energy, draw from others, and build resilience together. You will also work with people who don't handle stress very well. And the key is to respect their strengths and their emotions without pulling them off balance or pulling yourself off balance. Don't call them out. No name calling, stay calm. Listen well. Helping others work through the situation are the important points of trying to build resilience.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

But most of all, in a leadership role, you need confidence that a solution can be found. The team looks for that steadiness from you. You may not have the answer immediately, but you can keep working with the team until a resolution is reached. These qualities are usually developed through repeated experience with stress. Resilience is a skill that can grow regardless of age, background, or circumstances.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Tony Robinson had an interesting quote of change is inevitable, progress is optional. And in the article, it was interesting the recommendations to build resilience. One was accept the situation. Change is an inevitable part of life, and many aspects of the world are outside your control. You cannot control the spread of a virus, for example, or the pace of social change, or how the economy behaves. While it can be difficult to acknowledge those realities, fighting the circumstances that are outside your control only drains your energy and leaves you anxious and discouraged. Accept the situation frees you to focus your energy on what you can control. That's huge.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

So next is the idea of accepting your feelings. People often assume the best way to get through hard times is to ignore painful emotions and put on that brave face. But unpleasant emotions still exist, whether we acknowledge them or we don't. So trying to suppress them usually adds more stress and it actually delays acceptance of the situation at hand. When you allow yourself to feel what you are feeling, even in intense emotions, things begin to pass, and you're more likely to find a healthy path forward.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

And the last point from the article is a little broader. And in my opinion, from the article, it presented grieving your losses. And there's, you know, the standard elements of grief are, you know, denial and anger, bartering, depression, acceptance. All those things sometimes are actually in those events. But going through difficult times usually involve some form of loss, whether it's at work or in personal life, it is important to allow yourself time to grieve. In a work setting, stress often has to be addressed quickly. And there may not be that much time in the moment to process loss or risk because of the urgency of the environment. I keep on thinking about firefighters and how they're dealing with stress that they have to deal with the environment and then process it later. And to that point, there will be time later to review, to reflect, and come to terms with what has happened. Whether you call it grieving, accepting, processing, reviewing, the point's the same. The event is now part of history. From an MBR perspective, you cannot change history. You can learn from it and you move forward. The key is to not relive it endlessly, but to accept what happened, understand your reactions to it, and find a path to resolution. An example,

Acceptance Grief And Moving Forward

SPEAKER_01 17:45

when I was in an MBAR class in the 1980s, we had an exercise to talk about a zero responsibility event that happened in our lives. And we were supposed to discuss it within the seminar itself. One particular leader described the traumatic event that happened in her life during her college years when she was assaulted. And that event happened like 15 years ago in that moment in time. And yet the memory still weighed on her. She spoke about it and how she carried no responsibility for what had happened in that part of her life. It was at that point that Dr. Durst made a distinct comment that stays with me to this day. He was not saying that she was responsible for the event. What he was saying is that the event had happened and that the feelings and the loss were real. But the healing required to accept those realities, the grieving, the eventual placement of those events in her past rather than reliving them over and over needed to occur. She had built a wonderful career. And he made the point that she was in this seminar with all these other leaders, that she has been productive. She has shown that resilience, despite those things that have happened to her in her past. Dr. Durst made the point not to erase the memory, but to control what she saw and how she has conducted herself going forward, how resilient she really was. Accepting the event that it occurred instead of fighting the fact that it was part of her history, you could see that burden actually being lifted. I think it was one of the clearest examples of leadership and helping someone recognize resilience as the tool that she needed to use as an MBR approach.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

So we have talked about that example in previous podcasts. And each time you bring it up, the emotional weight of it still comes through very strongly. Stress can be both a burden and, over time, a source of resilience. It takes perspective to understand how those forces work together in shaping who we become. So the takeaway is simple. Leadership should not try to eliminate all stress. It should reduce unnecessary threat and build the conditions that help people handle the challenge in a very healthy and a very productive way. That's really the heart of this. Stress opportunity says this is hard, but I can handle it. Stress threat says this is too much. And I may not cope. But leadership job is to create more of the first condition and less of the second.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

So let's just step back for a second. Talk about this message. Stress is always part of our life. It's part of work. But burnout and mental health harm is not inevitable. They are often shaped by how work is designed, how authority is used, what expectations are set, and what culture leaders try to allow or develop. We learn from these stressful situations. Responsible leadership means creating conditions where people can perform with resilience, clarity, dignity, instead of being worn down by the preventable strain. It's our jobs to teach a little bit about leadership, and that's hopefully

Takeaways And How To Connect

SPEAKER_01 21:50

what you've learned in this podcast. You have more control about the environment that you're working in than you realize. So if you like what you've heard, I've written a book called Building Your Leadership Toolbox, and we talk about tools like this, and it's available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and other sites. The podcast is what you've been listening to. Thank you so much. It's also available on Apple, Google, and Spotify. A lot of what we talk about is from Dr. Durst and his MBR program. If you'd like to know more about Dr. Durst, you can find out on SuccessGrowthAcademy.com. And if you'd like to contact us, please send me a line. It's Wando75 periodjw at gmail.com. And the music has been brought to you by my grandson. So we want to hear from you. Drop me a line. Tell me what's going on, what you like, and what you would like to hear about. It has always helped us to create content. Thanks, Greg. This was fun.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Thanks, John. As always. Next time.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Yeah.