Meditation Helps Leaders Pause Before They React

One impulsive reaction can erase months of trust at work, and that is why we keep coming back to Dr. Goleman’s blunt truth: out-of-control emotions make smart people stupid. John and Greg talk through what emotional intelligence looks like in real leadership moments, especially when pressure is high, deadlines are slipping, or a message lands in your inbox that makes your blood boil. Our goal is practical: help you slow the moment down so you can lead on purpose.

We break emotional intelligence into Goleman’s four pillars: self-awareness, self-management, social awareness, and relationship management. Then we connect each one to meditation as a leadership tool you can actually use. That includes creating space between a stressful trigger and your response, reducing burnout, strengthening emotional control, building empathy, and communicating without turning every disagreement into a fight. If you’ve ever wished you could unsend an email, you’ll know exactly why this matters.

We also zoom out and look at how meditation has been used across history and faith traditions through prayer, mantras, scripture reflection, and breath awareness. Different methods, same outcome: focused attention that pulls you away from chaos and back to a steady center. From there, we tie mindfulness to Management By Responsibility (MBR) and the responsibility ladder, using missed deadlines as a clear example of how leaders move from blame and excuses to ownership, accountability, and proactive teamwork.

If you want a calmer mind and a stronger leadership presence, listen now, then subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

Transcript

Welcome And The Leadership Question

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success, Secrets, and Stories. I'm your host, John Wondolowski, and I'm here with my co-host and friend, Greg Powell. Greg? Hey everybody. And when we put together this podcast, we wanted to put out a helping hand and help that next generation and help answer the question of what does it mean to be a leader? Today we want to talk about a subject that I think supports that concept.

Emotional Intelligence Beats Raw IQ

SPEAKER_01 0:47

So today we wanted to talk about a gentleman, Daniel Golman, has talked about emotional intelligence. And he wrote a book, Emotional Intelligence, Why Emotional Intelligence Matters More Than IQ. But he has this wonderful quote: Out-of-control emotions make smart people stupid. And I don't think you can put it more succinctly on the point than that. And he's an American psychologist and a science journalist, best known for popularizing the whole concepts of emotional intelligence. The groundbreaking work that he actually did was back in 1995, and it was a bestseller book called Emotional Intelligence, obviously. And it's where he basically creates and supports the concepts that emotional intelligence is a better predictor of success than the standard tradition of an IQ test. Without going or attempting to try to redefine all the details of Dr. Golman's work or on his book, I wanted to talk about the four key components or domains that he brings up when he describes emotional

The Four Pillars Of EQ

SPEAKER_01 2:00

intelligence. Greg?

SPEAKER_00 2:01

So, John, the first one is self-awareness, and that is the ability to understand your own emotions, your own strengths, your own weaknesses, values, and how that impacts others around you. Next is self-management or self-control, managing disruptive impulses, adapting to changing situations, and maintaining control of your emotional state. The next one is social awareness, the capacity to understand others' emotions and their perspectives, primarily rooted in empathy. And the last pillar is relationship management, using awareness of your own and others' emotional intelligence to navigate interactions, resolve conflicts, and inspire teamwork. So, how do these pillars actually interact with meditation?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Yeah, and that's the point. In a traditional workplace, if you want to move from a lower reactive state to a higher level of responsibility, you have to have a mind shift. What I mean by that is becoming aware of the blame game, as we would talk about in the MBR kind of approach. It's the whole process of taking responsibility or ownership that is the critical element that both Dr. Goleman and Dr. Durst talked about.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

I see what you mean. Emotional intelligence is another way of framing what management by responsibility is talking about, that sense of awareness. So maybe we should dive into the mechanics of how meditation can help leadership.

Meditation For Triggers And Burnout

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Well, you touched on it.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

The first element is really self-awareness. And if you step back and you see how leadership affects the workplace environment, you're starting to get the key. By using those meditation tools, you can buffer the time between a stressful trigger, for example, like an angry email, and your personal response to that angry email before it starts sending you backwards with the words that you wish you could take back, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:02

You know, John, in the early days of sending emails, it was an interesting exercise to see how fast you could retrieve a message because you had sent an emotional email rather than a professional one, right? Remember those days? Since then, I think we've all learned to pause, leave the note in draft form, and rethink the impact. Man, I remember those days oh too well. So true.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Now the next element of meditation is really self-management. Again, looking through Daniel Goldman's approach, self-management is direct workplace applications. Meditation can prevent and reduce the impact of professional burnout, emotional outbursts, and decisive finger pointing. It's just the mechanism by learning how to sit with uncomfortable emotions during meditation. And you can build the cognitive resilience needed to handle those high pressure deadlines without panicking.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

You know, John, I like the approach towards social awareness or empathy as the next pillar of how meditation can help. But back in the day, there was a practice called transcendental meditation. TM, right? I'm talking late 80s, early 90s. I mean, this is a history lesson. I met with a couple of representatives from the TM group, and I have to be honest, they reminded me of a scene out of the psychedelic 70s. But I digress. In terms of workplace impact, meditation improves your ability to read the room. By clearing your focus, you can become more aware of your entire environment. You can read the room more effectively and truly listen to colleagues rather than simply waiting for your turn to speak.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Yeah, very key point. And especially in a leadership position, that is a clear challenge when the meeting impact of the department or the operation is affected by things like safety issues. Having the ability to step back and listen is one of the hardest skill sets to apply.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

You know, John, the last one is relationship management. In terms of workplace impact, meditation fosters clear, non-reactive communication, cooperative problem solving, and healthier dynamics. The mechanisms is that when you are less consumed by your own ego or stress, you can navigate conflicts neutrally, align teams, and lead with a calmer demeanor.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

And I think that goes back to relationships and management, control of emotion, that emotional intelligence again. And what we're talking about is really dealing with the challenges of being a leader. That's the key point. To put a star in that section of this podcast, meditation is a strong tool in emotional intelligence's toolbox. Meditation is something that's not new. It's been part of the lessons of some of the best teachers that have conveyed how meditation can help over time and regulate our own approach to life.

How Faith Traditions Use Meditation

SPEAKER_00 7:00

So the next section is probably the most interesting view of how commonly meditation has been applied throughout history. Most organized religions use meditation as a part of faith-based applications of mindfulness or self-awareness. There are three common mechanisms that describe meditation in different applications: sacred words or mantras, scriptural reflection, and body or breathing awareness.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

The first application is Christianity, where the majority of the meditation-related practices would be defined as prayers. These would include repeating sacred phrases or prayers, or taking a Bible verse and reflecting deeply on the details and the actions needed to follow God's will.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

You know, John, other faiths have different applications. Islam includes silent, focused observation or murakaba, as well as a rhythmic repetition of the 99 names of God, known as dikur, center the heart. Judaism includes meditations such as isolating oneself to speak aloud to God from the heart, or mentally visualizing Hebrew letters to internalize spiritual truths. Buddhism, it includes meditations that focus intently on breathing, known as anapanasati, or sitting in silent awareness to observe thoughts as they pass without judgment. And then Hinduism. That includes practices such as using a string of beads or malus to repeat a specific sacred sound or symbol, such as to alter mental focus and spiritual awareness.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Exactly. But those are all different ways that meditation has been applied as a universal bridge. Regardless of the specific technology or theology, all the faith-based applications achieve the same structured outcome for the brain. They pull your attention away from the chaotic, external daily anxieties to anchor your mind in a single high-value point of focus. Whether that is breathing, a mantra, a prayer, a divine attribute, these are all meant to help you center yourself through meditation. If there is any truth of the power of meditation, it is reflected on how most religions understand the strength and emotional intelligence with these kind of skills. Self-awareness, listening to others, carefully choosing your words when you communicate. Such common themes are nearly in all religions to point to the sense of internal peace before you can effectively help others.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

You know, John, this reminds me of something from your first book, Building Your Leadership Toolbox. You talk about the meditative state, you enter to develop your five-year career plan. Maybe that would help us discuss an MBR application of meditation.

An Art Museum Moment Of Clarity

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah, you know, I have talked about that before. And I finished the MBR program back in the 80s, and Dr. Durst gave all the students an assignment to create a five-year plan within two weeks of finishing the seminar. I think it was interesting that Dr. Durst was talking about the applying MBR and a timetable associated with it. So he asked us to make an agreement from a student's perspective to complete the assignment within the two weeks. So in order to get it done, I actually took a personal day and I went to some place where I knew I could actually relax and concentrate on the assignment. And I went down to the Art Institute of Chicago. Now I know we've talked about different places in terms of prayer and how ways to find a meditative kind of environment that people use, but I needed the ability to find a space where I could actually clear my mind. And I always found it as being a reflective place being the art institute. And I gravitated to one piece of art that I thought was really engaging. It's the a Sunday afternoon in the island of La Grande Jandette, painted by George Surratt in 1884 to 1886. And yes, it took him two years to do it. If you look at the image, it's all done with spots of paint and the amount of concentration and skill to create that image. Well, it's it's an incredible piece of art. But the most important thing was all these different people experiencing life in this picnic setting. And you could almost hear the children's voices and the dogs in the background, and how the parents and the seniors and how life was just all happening in this moment in time. And it gave me the ability to concentrate on how my impact in that moment, I was there with my young family. And how did I need to modify my career and my path? And that is meditation. That becoming more self-aware was really the advantage of going through this art institute kind of moment in time. So at the bottom line, I found a way to create that five-year plan. And I didn't leave the building without having it completed. I've done the five-year plans a lot of times past that point. But the first one, I really took advantage of meditation and really found it as something I needed to do for the clarity.

unknown 12:43

Greg?

SPEAKER_00 12:44

And I think, John, that your time spent creating a career plan for how you would interact in the workplace really did lower your anxiety. You had a moment in time of reflective focus where you experienced that higher level of responsibility that Dr. Durst talks about as a mindset. Rather than dealing only with external forces or blaming circumstances for not having a clear career goal, you took the next step of internal ownership by creating your five-year plan. So let's talk about how we can move from the example into more common issues to help our listeners understand how to use the MBR ladder to define meditation as a tool for shifting the mind in relation to deadlines.

The MBR Ladder And Missed Deadlines

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Good idea. Okay. So the first one is the lowest level of management, and Dr. Durst defined it as the unconscious level. And it calls that particular type of management irresponsible. And we're going to break it down into three common elements in each category. The reality is that in this level, you are completely unaware of how your behavior affects the teams and missing deadlines. We're going to talk about deadlines as an example. The meditation fix is to use mindfulness to scan your past reactions, ask yourself to choose or ignore the situation and why.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

So, John, next would be the self-protective level or conscious irresponsibility. And that's an interesting category just in itself. Here's the reality. You know the deadline was missed, but you immediately blamed external factors such as lazy employees, bad software, or just a lack of time. The meditation fix would be sit with the discomfort and anger of the failure without acting on it. Notice your urge to point fingers. And here's the shift. By breathing through the panic, you stop the blame game and realize that your reactions are your own choice.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Yeah. And I mean, if you think about these levels, we're trying to give you an idea of what it means to actually apply the skill of meditation. The reality is you stop blaming others and accept your poor communication or lack of oversight that contributed to that missed deadline. The meditation fix, practice, objective self-observation. And really, we're talking about tools that can help you in terms of managing and using meditation. The third level of MBR is the conformance level. And that's where you start to see a little bit of a change and a shift in management. The reality is you stop blaming others and you accept your poor communication or lack of oversight that contributed to that missed deadline. The meditation fix, practice objective self-observation. Review the project timelines like you're an outsider looking in. And you're trying not to have any self-criticism because it's counterproductive. You're trying to work your way through the problem.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

So the fourth level is a limited responsibility level, or we call the achievement level, according to MBR. Here's the reality: you move beyond simply accepting responsibility and begin producing measurable results. You're actually focused on accomplishing the goals, closing performance gaps, and following through on commitments. So what's the meditation fix? Use focus reflection to clarify the desired outcomes, identify the best action forward, and remove the distractions that keep you from meeting the deadline.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

And then there's the fifth level, which is the responsible level. Or as Dr. Dress has brought up through some of his more recent work, the conductor level. The reality is the responsible level now internalizes the issue and is constantly trying to find a way to lead. You don't wait for the problem to force action. Instead, you're proactive and you're trying to create conditions where accountability and trust and high performance becomes the norm. The meditation fixed use daily mindfulness and value-based reflections to keep centered. Anticipate challenges and respond to those with purpose rather than with pressure. The shift is that you embody that example of responsibility to master the concepts. And what you're doing is modeling ownership is the consistency that others can see and are encouraged to take on their own responsibility, their own risk, and to find that performance edge for their results.

Wrap Up Plus Ways To Reach Us

SPEAKER_00 17:54

So meditation as a practical management and leadership tool, especially when viewed through the lens of emotional intelligence and MBR, we talked about how meditation can strengthen self-awareness, self-management, social awareness, and relationship management. And there's four key pillars associated with Daniel Goleman's work on emotional intelligence. Meditation helps leaders create space between emotional triggers and reactions. And that allows them to respond more thoughtfully in stressful workplace situations. It can reduce burnout, it can improve emotional control, deepen empathy, and support clearer communication during self-conflict or high pressure moments.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

And we've also talked about how meditation to the long-standing religious and spiritual practices show that many traditional uses of prayer, mantras, scripture, reflections, breathing techniques all focus that awareness and centering of the mind. These examples illustrate meditation is a universal method to move attention away from the daily anxieties and towards a focus, a meaningful reflection point. Meditation to MBR and how it affects that ladder of those five stages are examples of how mindfulness can help leaders move from the unconscious or the blame level behavior to master accountability and to be a proactive leader. Overall, the central message is that meditation supports emotional intelligence by helping leaders to pause, to reflect, to accept responsibility, and to respond with greater purpose and effectiveness. I hope that this podcast has helped you and seeing a tool that you could use. And I think that meditation is one of those tools that really can be a great addition to what you have in your toolbox. So if you like what you've heard, I've written a book called Building Your Leadership Toolbox, and we talk about tools like this. And it's available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and other sites. The podcast is what you've been listening to. Thank you so much. It's also available on Apple, Google, and Spotify. A lot of what we talk about is with Dr. Durst and his MBR program. If you'd like to know more about Dr. Durst, you can find out on SuccessGrowthAcademy.com. And if you'd like to contact us, please send me a line. That's wando seventy-five periodjw at gmail.com. And the music has been brought to you by my grandson. So we want to hear from you. Drop me a line. Tell me what's going on, what you like, and what you would like to hear about. And it's always helped us to create content. Thanks, Greg. This was fun. Thanks, John. As always. Next time.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Yeah.