In today’s episode, I speak with Manoj Dias, the co-founder of mindfulness studio, Open. Manoj has helped thousands of people around the world through mindfulness and meditation.
In our conversation, we dive deep into how internal conditions can shape external reality (and vice versa), applying a holistic perspective to understanding ourselves, the importance of allocating time intentionally, and emphasizing the body as a practice of mindfulness.
We also discussed recognizing the importance of spaciousness and ease in relationships, what it means to be present, the importance of aligning actions with desired outcomes for your future self, building a life full of love, and finding clarity in what you want to create in life.
Try Open for 30 days FREE right HERE.
Connect with Flynn:
Connect with Manoj:
Submit your written reviews to THIS form to be entered into a giveaway to win a 30 min session with me! We'll pull 1 winner at the end of the month.
Here are 3 ways I can help you:
In today’s episode, I speak with Manoj Dias, the co-founder of mindfulness studio, Open. Manoj has helped thousands of people around the world through mindfulness and meditation.
In our conversation, we dive deep into how internal conditions can shape external reality (and vice versa), applying a holistic perspective to understanding ourselves, the importance of allocating time intentionally, and emphasizing the body as a practice of mindfulness.
We also discussed recognizing the importance of spaciousness and ease in relationships, what it means to be present, the importance of aligning actions with desired outcomes for your future self, building a life full of love, and finding clarity in what you want to create in life.
Try Open for 30 days FREE right HERE.
Connect with Flynn:
Connect with Manoj:
Submit your written reviews to THIS form to be entered into a giveaway to win a 30 min session with me! We'll pull 1 winner at the end of the month.
Here are 3 ways I can help you:
00:00.00
flynnskidmore
Okay, so we've just started speaking about external variables and internal variables that influence our experience and you're speaking about how. You've been dealing with health issues. The first thing that you did was take a look at your patterns the truth of who you've been over time and see and see like okay, well maybe this this illness in my body is it is it asking me to adjust things just the ways that I've been approaching life and and then you. And you started to look at that stuff I imagine and then you found that the thing that was actually creating the illness was mold in your apartment. So just tell me a little bit more about that.
00:43.84
Manoj
Yeah, you know I think I've I've learned over the years that sometimes as I was saying before our internal conditions can create our external reality and then there are other times our external conditions can can really? ah. Teach us a thing or 2 about our internal world and so what I've learned over the years is to take a 2 prong deot approach when I'm you know focusing on my health and I think I have a tendency to overthink. It's something to do with me so you know as soon as I started to get sick I was like oh what am I doing like what are the patterns that i'm. Kind of in right now am I overworking am I eating bad food and um and that's interesting in and of itself to notice or have the awareness to recognize that my tendency is to think that I'm always the problem like something you know that's where my mind can. Ah, from a default mode network perspective. That's where it can revert to is that oh I'm the problem. Let me fix myself and um I think having that awareness is is good but it needs to be balanced with a more holistic ah awareness when you're navigating health challenges to see okay, what else could could be out there.
01:42.94
flynnskidmore
M.
01:57.90
Manoj
Is it environmental is it something at work. You know good. There are all these different factors so you know I feel very grateful to have gone through this journey these last ten months I was telling someone yesterday. It's been like probably the the most challenging ten months of my life if if not 1 of the most challenging but I'm kind of coming out of that. Ah, completely different person and a completely with a completely different outlook on on life.
02:25.12
flynnskidmore
What's the what's the new Outlook and what are the ways you're different. What.
02:29.00
Manoj
Well I think it started for me when my mom passed away two years ago I think um up until that point you know I was very much just live in the moment kind of I had that kind of attitude which is not uncommon probably for a meditation teacher. But. I um I was too much living in what made me feel good in that moment. Not necessarily what was important in that moment and so you know even I'd moved to la to to start open with some friends in 2020 and I left my whole family and you know it was in the middle of the pandemic. Um, you know I just got caught up and in working a lot and I really didn't get back home as much as I wanted to im a co-founder of a startup so I didn't have all the time to call my my friends and family and then when mom got sick. It was um. It was a beautiful experience and it was such ah, an incredible reminder of what life is really all about. Is it all about just working you know to the bone is it all about um, trying to grow your investment portfolio or save as much money as you can. And for me I've started to learn and recognize that it's more about time and time is genuinely the most important thing and and how I allocate that time is also really important to me. So um, you know coming back from that and then getting sick where I felt like I had no time to do anything like I hardly saw any of my friends over the last.
04:00.41
Manoj
You know eleven months I'm like oh I need to really get healthy I need to eat well like you know, not even being able to justify how I would every weekend just binge out on food and for five days eat well I'm like no I really want to eat well because I want to be able to have more time with. With my daughter with my with my woman with my friends with work and so that's it's been a really beautiful and and challenging reminder of of the fragility of life.
04:29.30
flynnskidmore
So before in this in this version of of life where you're optimizing for the present and what's here and then that that took you into building a business you focused your energy on that you were with that you may have. Invested less energy into some of the other things that are important to you family friends those sorts of things where you're at now is you? You're seeing that. Time is something that is incredibly valuable to you but not just time how much time you have like how long you're going to be around here with your daughter and how and and how you are spending your time what you are actually doing in the time that you have so when I hear that what I'm hearing is. You've got a different set of Priorities. You're making different decisions about what is important to you now? Um, and and how do you know that like like now in the place where you are right Now. How do you know if something is important to you? How do you know? It's important to you.
05:38.20
Manoj
That's a great question I think first of all, you asked about time and and how long you know I have with with certain people and really the the answer to that is none of us really know how long we have like you know if we're fortunate. We might have I think four thousand weeks is what. That great book that I read recently? Um, if we're lucky we have four thousand weeks in our life if we live to eighty but many of us aren't that lucky and many of us are even lucky we might have more than four thousand weeks so um for me, there's ah, a natural reflection of death. You know, almost every day. And you know I grew up in the buddhist tradition I studied. Um for 15 years in that tradition and and there's a big focus on impermanence and so when you think about your end you really influence how you live and it's a really freeing liberating practice of. Considering this might be the last podcast I do knock on wood. You know this might be the the final time I get to to kiss my my daughter this might be the final time I get to teach to hundreds of people and and do what I really love and so if you're informed by that. Then you get to choose very intentionally where your time is allocated and now you ask me like how do you know What's what's important and that's such a personal experience. But for me, it's really dropping into my body dropping into my heart reconciling that with my mind because.
07:07.51
Manoj
Like I said ah previous to the last few years I was very much in the moment but I was not really ah I was not really cultivating in the moment I wasn't cultivating a life I I would be proud of outside of that you know because sometimes we can be in the moment and just. It can also almost be nihilistic. You know, like who cares about what happens tomorrow but I think ultimately I looked at what I want out of my life I want a family I want to be healthy I want to be at peace within myself and then I work backwards like if I if I want that. In the future. What do I need to do today in order to to have that. So um, that was a little formula that I kind of worked with but I think genuinely if we all drop into our bodies if we are really present with our own hearts. We already know what's important you know from time to time we get wrapped in. Things and that's okay, we get wrapped in what we're passionate about while we're excited about and that's okay, but I think the older you get. Maybe even the wiser you get you start to to look at life a little differently.
08:16.79
flynnskidmore
1 of the I think that when people hear the recommendation to be present and to be in the moment I think a lot of people struggle with that because it it seems like. And sometimes people even say this straight up that what being present and being in the moment means is not considering the future or not reflecting on the past to me. There's always a consideration or a creation of the future happening and an interpretation or a reflection of the on the past happening now. There's a version of reality where I'm trying to run away from that truth that the past and the future do exist right here in this moment and what I think presences is. Blocking that information out and pretending that I'm only focused on what's right here in front of me. But then there's a different version of presence where I'm like joyfully lovingly and with curiosity considering the future and considering the past and I think what I hear you saying is that. What you're doing now is you're doing a better job of being in the moment because in this moment compared to maybe two or three years ago you are making more of a choice about how you are creating the future you want rather than potentially um.
09:40.99
flynnskidmore
Like repressing the thought of the future that you might want.
09:44.90
Manoj
Yeah, and that could be that could be true I think I think genuinely it's when we encounter moments where life becomes very real. We naturally begin to have a broader perspective of life. You know me the version of me ten years ago and twenty years ago and thirty years ago is a very different me now and so I'm constantly changing my desires change my feelings change my experiences change but you know when you encounter something like death. It is a very stark reminder of of life and. You know I was someone that has been going nonstop for you know ten years fifteen years from the moment I discovered meditation practice I almost became addicted to to going deep into that experience deep into that tradition learning as much as I could traveling to see different teachers. Eventually becoming a teacher and then traveling all around the world doing all of that and so um, in my mind I could reconcile all of that by saying you know I'm very present to all of this this is this is great I'm following my truth I'm following my dharma. This is all amazing. And then somewhere along the line I think you know the experience of mom and an experience of getting sick is almost just a stop sign saying. Okay, you can go and keep going but just go a little slower and ah be more engaged with with the things that you want to do.
11:19.21
Manoj
And know that you know everything you are doing right now is planting a seed for your future self which is what you've eloquently said so well before and everything you're experiencing right now. A lot of it. Not everything is a byproduct of the seeds. You've planted in the past.
11:34.46
flynnskidmore
Listen.
11:36.72
Manoj
And so the seeds that I planted in the past were you know I didn't eat the healthiest I didn't prioritize physical health exercise and training I Thought if I just meditate and do breath work and yoga I'd be fine. But then you know. You get older and you're like oh no I actually need to do strength training and I need to eat certain foods and I need to look at supplements and and all of these different things. So Yeah I think age is a beautiful reminder of life.
12:08.93
flynnskidmore
What I'm ah hearing in that and I have questions about this questions about your experience with this. But what I'm hearing in that is that you have come to see that there's truth in the experience of your body. Like there's truth in this 3 dimensional reality and it is part of your experience I have no idea if this was you or not but I know that a lot of people who dive deep into ah the world of meditation are are kind of doing so maybe with a denial of the truth of. The physical body or the the physical truth of things that there is a 3 dimensional reality. Um, and I've been there too like I've been in that place where I thought the only world that exists is like the energetic spiritual or mental world and that the physical world doesn' like it just doesn't matter as much.
12:47.52
Manoj
Are.
13:02.36
flynnskidmore
Did you have an experience like that.
13:06.67
Manoj
Yeah, it's a great prompt. Um, you know I think especially now. But I think even back then I approached the practice of meditation from a place of cognitive understanding. Ah, mainly because of how I was raised and and my proclivity to intellectualizing things naturally and so when it came to meditation or even spirituality buddhist buddhism I tried to understand it in the mind and I tried to figure it out like it was a puzzle. If I figured out I would be able to experience and what I mean paradoxically what I learned through all of those experiences it is dissolving the mind and being the experience of emptiness which is you know in in. In part, a combination of the mind and body. But also it's a dissolution of the idea of me this idea of menage the founder the father this person. Um and then to get to this place. Especially over the last seven years it's been very much understanding that Mindfulness is a somatic experience. So we we feel it through our senses. We have an intuition we can tune into and listen to and follow and.
14:29.20
Manoj
A lot of my work is dropping out of my head as often as possible because it's so easy for me to to try and figure it out. You know whether it's a relationship whether it's a business interaction whether it's a new idea. Um I very quickly. Want to go into what does this mean? What could it look like. And you know I've learned over the years that if I really pay attention to my body in those moments. My body is saying no if I really pay attention to how my body was feeling in this particular relationship I would know that it wasn't right, you know? and and relationships are really interesting because. Just reflecting on it the other day there were relationships where you know my body was in a constant state of fight or flight and when it was in this energized state I would think that that was love I'm like oh I love this person but I would know that it would very quickly drop down to the. The other end of the spectrum and I'm like ah this is and that emotional roller coastaster I would equate to what love really felt like and it wasn't until you know I met my my current partner and it was so challenging because I didn't have that it was just like so. So.
15:46.90
Manoj
Monotonous at times and I'm like holy shit like I don't love this person but I realize this is this quality of spaciousness is love like whether it's in the context of relationship or in the context of how I feel within myself or within the context of my work. When there's this quality of spaciousness when things can come when things can go when I'm able to just be settled that is a closest experience to me of of love and that really takes being present in the body to understand that and appreciate that.
16:16.55
flynnskidmore
Are you liking this so it sounds like you're evolving your understanding of love are you are you prefer? Do you prefer this version of love.
16:26.62
Manoj
Yeah I really do like it for me I mean it's always challenging because we're working with our psychology something that we perhaps inherited when we were 2 Some people say we inherited in our mother's womb and where.
16:41.30
flynnskidmore
Um, potentially even thousands of years ago
16:44.60
Manoj
Yeah, exactly I mean potentially karmically many many lifetimes and so um, we're working against that at times and so I I don't really believe in binaries you know the older I get I don't think this way is it this way is that but it's more like. At the age that I'm in with the things that I want to do with how I feel. It's so nice to to have this quality of spaciousness with a partner and not feel like I have to have the extreme highs the extreme lows even though they are still there. It's not as constant. And my nervous system generally feels much more at ease which helps me sleep better which helps me function better and I can focus on other areas of my life where sometimes you know when especially when I was young I would be derailed by a relationship. Particularly and I wouldn't be able to stop thinking about it and then when it ended I would be ruminating on it and so um, that comes with Yes, it comes with age and wisdom. It also comes with a lot of practice of awareness and mindfulness and also studying human nature. And and noticing like this is our tendency as as beings as as humans.
17:58.14
flynnskidmore
Someone dmed me this morning and asked me such a such a great question and I love that a man was asking me this because I think that like historically well I can understand why it's hard for men to ask other men these kinds of questions but he was like I'm falling in love with someone and the thing that's happened. That's happened throughout my whole life is happening again. I'm falling in love with someone and I'm losing myself. They're all I can think about like it's all of my attention and energy is going into this person and I'm like no longer caring about the things that mattered to me before I know. I'm setting myself up for disaster here but I can't seem to stop and um, you know I was I was thinking a lot about his. He just basically like what do I do not even a question like help really like help with this and I haven't answered him yet. But I've been thinking a lot about it.
18:38.63
Manoj
Well.
18:47.68
Manoj
Um, ah.
18:55.16
flynnskidmore
I don't think I personally don't think it's all that valuable to say that 1 thing is true. Love and another thing is not true. Love that might be his current version of love right? That's it and that's his current version of love. The question is not if that's true. Love or not true. Love the question is does he like that experience and what I always really I really like helping people come to this understanding of like whether you're in a relationship with this person or not your task is still the exact same thing to be clear. Um, the version of you that you want to spend your life creating and create that version and if that if that means that you end up being with this person then that's incredible. But if not then like you know you're still. It's the same thing. That's the thing that matters is creating the version of you that you want to be. I think that it it may I don't even know how useful it is to ask am I in love with this person or not I think what is useful is do I want to build a life that is full of love do I want to like build businesses do I want to build a body that's full of love do I want to build a life that's just absolutely oozing with a surplus of love and when I'm investing my time and attention into this person does it make it does does this relationship make it easier to make that happen am I is it easier is it faster is it more fun to me personally.
20:25.68
flynnskidmore
I find that to be a much more useful way of evaluating the relationship and what it requires is that a person is pretty clear on what it is that they want to create if I know what I want I know the life I want to create I know the version of myself I want to create and and I know how I want to feel. Like if I know how that version of Flynn feels then it's so much easier for me to be discerning and evaluate how I'm investing my time energy and attention. But if I'm not clear on that I can really understand and I've been there myself I've done it too.
20:54.54
Manoj
Um, well.
21:03.19
flynnskidmore
Getting swept up into something that like where I lose myself hoping that losing myself is the thing that allows me to find myself I'm curious if you have any experience with that or what? what you think about that.
21:12.40
Manoj
Um, yeah I mean first of all I also really appreciate a man reaching out and asking that another from another man too which is even cooler. And the the buddhist perspective somewhat ties into a psychological perspective on this. Um, so where I'd begin is to first acknowledge the fact that he is aware that something is happening right now this feeling of oo I feel like I'm losing myself. Then I mean I'm going to get a bit nerdy. At this point it's it's to really break down who is this version of myself like what does that actually mean like I am this person that is what that doesn't fall in love that doesn't tech someone every single day like.
21:45.50
flynnskidmore
Please do.
22:03.29
Manoj
So get curious about that and so so you know again, don't make a binary like oh I am this person I'm that person I Also think sometimes to be really honest that.
22:12.10
flynnskidmore
We can I'm sorry. Can you say a little bit more about that I because I'm not I I think I know what you mean but I want to make sure I know what you mean.
22:17.19
Manoj
Um, yeah, yes, but.
22:21.12
Manoj
yeah yeah I mean so I think in the context of of this guy he says I'm losing myself so what does what does that mean like who is let's say his name is Joe so who is Joe is Joe this person that only texts.
22:32.88
flynnskidmore
I Said this is.
22:38.38
Manoj
Once a day is Joe this person that is ah that identifies with his job that identifies with his identity of you know this is the kind of person that I am and this is a buddhist concept of not identifying with a self and so um.
22:52.31
flynnskidmore
Yeah.
22:56.19
Manoj
Then we look at how this idea of the self is never fixed so you know you and I were very different maybe twelve months ago to who we are today. We very different to who we were five years ago ten years ago and so when we say I'm losing myself like which version. Of yourself. Are you really losing and then to be alone. Yeah, and and then I would be somewhat contrarian and and and offer him well what happens if you lose that version of yourself right.
23:16.70
flynnskidmore
I See what you mean beautifully said yep.
23:28.23
flynnskidmore
I Love that question.
23:32.76
Manoj
Because maybe that version of you needs to get lost. Maybe that version of you that is let's look at Attachment Theory for example, is an avoidant and so you're very protective of your identity. You're very protective of your Time. You're very protective of how you want things and this person is. You know, coming along and she wants to be intimate with you and you have a fear of intimacy and then you reconcile this by saying I'm losing myself because you know, ah blah Maybe that's what you need, Maybe if and you said it like maybe if what you ultimately want is to be Loved. Maybe you need to lose this version of yourself and that's a really beautiful quality. That's a really beautiful thing. It's gonna feel like shit. It's gonna feel very Challenging. You're gonna be Confused. You're gonna not know what's happening and that's sometimes exactly what you need and my one of my favorite quotes is by a um. Controversial Buddhist meditation teacher by the name of Chogonrue he says sometimes this practice of self-development this practice of self-awareness is like falling through the sky and realizing you don't have a parachute but then realizing that there's no ground. And for me, it just every time I say it I kind of get chills from it because it it is like that. It's when we're falling through the sky like love is is falling through the sky and yet we want to grip onto things as we're falling like no I don't want to fall I don't want here's my identity here's my time here's how and then um.
25:07.37
Manoj
What happens when we just let go into that like it becomes a beautiful experience and that doesn't guarantee that the relationship is going to work out because you can't guarantee love and I often think that the moment you say yes to Love. You're also saying yes to heartbreak. But it's kind of reconciling all that By. Realizing that you're going to be okay regardless of what happens.
25:29.35
flynnskidmore
When I when I hear that so you're without a parachute and then you look down and you see Okay, well,, there's no ground and then maybe you're like well this is still scary as fuck I Want to grip onto things and you realize the clouds You can't grip onto Them. There's nothing to grip Onto. So. You're having this experience of falling. It seems like if there's no ground. You're going to fall Infinitely. It's an infinite Fall. So Then you get to you get to ask yourself a question what experience of falling Do I want to have do I Want to continue to hope that there is something to grasp Onto. And when I do hope that there's something to grasp on to who am I what version of myself does that create or do I want to fly do I want to have do I Want to learn to fly and to have fun in this experience of falling.
26:16.94
Manoj
Yeah, yeah I think it's It's the it's that second it's that curiosity of can I do somersaults what would happen if I expand my arms out what would happen if I close my eyes open my eyes and that curiosity is something we.
26:22.34
flynnskidmore
Um, yes.
26:33.27
Manoj
Get when it comes to spiritual practice when it comes to self- developmentlopment work. It's that we don't have to have the answer all the time and a lot of us. Don't like I mean I think of myself as almost an elder at this point right? I've been doing this for a long time and I don't have the answers. To all of life's problems or questions. But what I do have and what I really am proud of myself for cultivating is just a curiosity when it comes to new experiences I'm not shutting myself off from potentially getting my heart broken not shutting myself off from potentially failing at a business venture. Um, and that I think is is a quality that can really inform future decisions. You know once we the older we get. We're like oh hang on. Well I did this 1 thing when I was in my twenty s and it turned out. It was actually not too bad. So maybe I'll do it again? Um yeah I think it's it's it's something that. If I could impart 1 bit of wisdom and to anyone listening it's to just be curious about life.
27:33.90
flynnskidmore
When you were saying before about your body like like maybe you're you're obviously a super smart person a high capacity to intellectualize and to understand things right? And maybe you've invested a whole lot of time and energy through your life. Like not even knowing that there was another option like the only option is intellectualizing and thinking about things and then at some point along the way you've learned to come into your body and pay attention to the experience that's happening in your body. Maybe even you would describe yourself as. Understanding how to live through your heart. Um, so you have this beautiful intellectual capacity and you also have this like heart capacity I personally think that the only thing that I can know in any given moment The only thing that I can know. Is what is happening in my body and the second thing. Ah maybe another layer on top of that is whether or not I like it so I can know if I feel open and if there's energy moving up through me and I can know if I am enjoying that. Or if I'm not enjoying that and I can also know if I'm contracted or if I feel dread or despair in my gut and I can know if I like that when it come what you're saying about answers. Well what I like to think about is like okay well if let's say to the person who wants answers.
29:07.18
flynnskidmore
If you got the answers. What would that do for you like what would you actually get if you got the answers and maybe that person would say well then there would be certainty and I could know this thing and and then there's this I was like okay if you have certainty then what what does it do for you to be certain.
29:16.81
Manoj
For.
29:23.97
flynnskidmore
Ultimately, if we unpack that we would get into that person's body and that person would say well then I get to relax and then I get to be grounded then I get to um, be Joyful Peaceful calm So you think what you want is answers. But what you actually want.
29:29.33
Manoj
Um, yeah.
29:41.94
flynnskidmore
Is an experience in your body and what experience in your body. Do you want to have what everyone seems to want when we unpack it is exactly what you're talking about curiosity people want to be curious about the world. They want to experience awe and wonder. But I find so many people get so trapped into thinking that what they need is an answer when really what life is to me is a practice of being clear of the experience we want in our body and then relating to everything as a practice of that experience. So right now I Want to be curious with you. I Can know if I'm curious because I can know I know what curiosity is like in my body. So then this conversation for me becomes a meditation on or a practice of curiosity and I'm not thinking like am I doing Well do I sound smart does he like me I'm thinking.
30:22.53
Manoj
On.
30:36.96
flynnskidmore
Am I experiencing curiosity where did I slip up how could I be even more curious I'm I'm wondering if that lands for you if that if that seems valuable as a way of living.
30:40.24
Manoj
Works.
30:47.70
Manoj
Yeah I really I really appreciate that I think what you're saying is is is very similar to how I would talk about it as well. Um, maybe that the delineation there is that we need. We need the mind as well, right? So living just in the heart. Great. But you know we have to use our mind to navigate daily life. You know if we lived just in the heart. We might be taking advantage of all the time. Um, so we need to cultivate both those 2 faculties. That's why practices like meditation. Can really help because you know in my tradition we call meditation a 1 form of meditation which is what I practice the Passana the pastana translates to clear seeing and so we need to be able to see clearly in order to understand our lives to understand our reality. And we need to be able to notice what we feel first in order for us to see clearly through the mind so they both work interchangeably and you know in in buddhist meditation practice. We believe that the heart and the mind are 1 thing they are 2 separate things and um.
31:55.16
flynnskidmore
Um.
31:56.61
Manoj
The the somatic feeling then gives rise to how we can perceive our experience.
31:59.15
flynnskidmore
I Love that that makes so much sense. What do you think is like like if if we could if we could get clear on the best possible way that we could use our minds as a tool.. What do you see as as The. As the most beautiful expression of the mind a lot of people would would probably describe themselves as being a slave to their mind and like ruminating in thoughts unable to escape their thoughts over thinking So for a lot of people the mind is not a beautiful thing and they're so desperate to be able to be in their body and escape their mind.
32:33.16
Manoj
Ah.
32:37.40
flynnskidmore
But what I'm hearing you say and I completely agree with you is that there actually is no distinction between the mind and the heart and what it's about is is learning how to use the mind in a way that as a tool that serves us and the experience that we want to have in creating what we want to create in our lives. So.. What do you see as the most beautiful use of the mind.
32:57.37
Manoj
I mean first of all, everyone's mind is beautiful. You know we and we all experience dark thoughts. We all experience depression anxiety we we all have that tendency so the first thing I will say don't reject yourself because you're experiencing. Darkness right now. Um, you are a beautiful person. You are a beautiful. You have a beautiful mind and your mind can change and your mind can evolve and we know this through neuroscience we know that the brain and a shifts adapts creates New New Neural Networks due to repeated experiences. We also know through neurogenesis that the brain can reshape itself. It can create new neural pathways out of pathways that weren't there previously. So if you understand that everything has the nature to change. Everything has the name.
33:48.12
flynnskidmore
Oh that's beautifully said everything has the nature to change I Really like that I'm sorry to interrupt because it's just so beautiful. So beautifully said. Yeah.
33:55.38
Manoj
Yeah, ah yeah, keep affirming me I love it. It's great. Um, but if you understand that everything has this capacity and this capability to shift to change to exist for a moment in time and then to die away. You'll recognize that your mind is just the same and you know right now you might be going through a friend said this to me actually when I was in New York last month um you're in a season right now and this season could be a season of darkness. It could be a season of anxiety sadness heartbreak. But then there's a new season that's around the corner. You don't know when it's going to come. You don't know how long it's going to come for and so just embrace that just recognize that that's going to happen and you know you need a practice of seeing clearly and it doesn't have to be meditation. You know it could be so you could just be someone that. Goes out into the ocean and is just really present in the ocean you know it could be someone that goes out into nature and is just so engaged and present and we're cultivating similar qualities of just being engaged with things that are coming and going seeing what really is for what it is and not for how our mind projects it to be. And that's one of the byproducts of this idea of seeing clearly that we can experience things in our life like new relationships like new business ideas without a sense of projection of our past or you know putting our anxieties into what could happen.
35:28.62
Manoj
We can just be with what is in this moment but for many of us it takes time and it takes a practice to get us there I don't necessarily think willpower is going to get us there. We have to have a tool and whatever that tool is you know Obviously for selfish reasons have. Found meditation to be that practice because a teacher once told me if you want to understand your mind sit down and observe it and it made all the sense in the world to me and so that helped me well I think I'm a meditation teacher. So I'm I'm gonna.
35:58.57
flynnskidmore
Why Why is that for um, selfish reasons. Okay so you're you're you think? yeah I got what you're saying. That's the tool. That's the tool. Yeah.
36:07.94
Manoj
Right evangelist and you know but I do recognize there are other ways to also get there so I'm by no means saying my way is the only way but it's just the way that I found to be really beneficial. Um. And so yeah, if you if you want to be able to to change anything if you can clearly see an aspect of your personality or your life that isn't serving you in some way and you want to be able to to shift and change it. You have to believe that you're first capable of doing that. And the mind is also one of those things we can change our mind. We can have a much more beautiful mind even though your mind is beautiful right now you can cultivate the the feeling states you want you know, but also recognize that that's impermanent as well. So it's not going to be a forever thing. Um. And then this season is also going to end at some point.
37:05.70
flynnskidmore
There's so much in there that stood out and and that I want to address one of those things is you you telling people that their mind is beautiful I 1000000% agree the place that I have gotten to in life and it it is. It's absolutely a blessing to be in this place like the what the way that I see it is that my thoughts my psyche is not necessarily my thoughts my psyche I just have. Intimate access to this particular vantage point of thoughts and psyche I don't really know whose it is but I have intimate access to being able to observe and witness this thing and I see it all as beautiful I mean even the darkest things that could exist. Even the darkest things that could exist in my own thoughts or in any other thoughts I see those as beautiful I like to practice this experience of witnessing all thoughts are all things that could exist in the mind the same way that I would watch a sunset over the ocean or the or the mountain I want to experience on wonder when watching. Any thought happen and I think it's a really What's so beautiful is I can feel in the way that you're saying that that you probably have that experience inside of your own world. You experience your own inner world as beautiful which means you know other people's inner worlds are beautiful.
38:16.62
Manoj
Yeah I.
38:34.35
Manoj
Yeah, can I sorry to cut you up I wanted to just add one point So it's not that I think my thoughts are beautiful I think my mind is beautiful I make a distinction between my mind and my thoughts. Um, actually I make a distinction between my mind and thoughts.
38:35.65
flynnskidmore
Please.
38:52.46
Manoj
Don't necessarily think they're mine the thoughts I think thoughts present themselves even feelings to an extent present themselves. They are not mine. What? what is mine is my awareness and my awareness can as you said observe all of these things they can witness them. They can experience them. But these thoughts might. Don't think are a mind you know where if you look at what popular culture really breeds. We're inundated with stimulus like from the moment we wake up to the time we go to sleep and so often some of the thoughts aren't mine. It could be a conversation you have with someone and they're telling you about you know what. Protein shake to have and all of a sudden at 3 am you're thinking about this protein shake and I'm like yeah that's saw my protein shake but thought it was just this thought that arose due to causes and conditions in my mind and so being able to say that as you said as you said it so beautifully that.
39:36.49
flynnskidmore
Isn't it.
39:48.45
Manoj
You are the observer of of these of these experiences and you're looking from a place that is beautiful already right? right? right? And then the thought itself could be.
39:55.72
flynnskidmore
Um, you're looking from a place that is beautiful already. Yeah.
40:04.56
Manoj
Um, skillful or unskillful I don't even really like to say negative or positive because who the end of the day but you can decide to take action based on what you're observing.
40:06.50
flynnskidmore
Me neither.
40:13.41
flynnskidmore
I like that so you get So. There's there's there, Maybe this comes from the same place. But so there's one of the things that we're speaking about here is being the awareness who witnesses the thoughts who witnesses So right Now. I am having an experience I am aware of thoughts and I sometimes get confused like what actually is a thought is it an image that I'm creating. Is it a word that I'm saying but there's something that exists in the realm of like images and words that I see as as thoughts. And I'm also having ah part of my experience is my somatic Experience. What's happening in my body.. There's also um, interpretations of the past predictions of the future there. There are these things that are happening that I'm aware of all of them and what I like to practice is like how how? um. How? how can I How can I just be in a state of stillness as I am aware of all of the things that I could possibly be aware of in any given moment without latching to any one of those things as the truth of reality. But. A truth of React. It's a truth and there are multiple truths happening and then what I hear you say is like what we get to do somehow some way. Maybe some people would describe this as free will we get to make a choice about which one of these things we use and which we don't want to use in order to build something.
41:28.41
Manoj
Or.
41:44.58
flynnskidmore
Is that this who's choosing is that the same thing as the awareness like what? what's that.
41:48.87
Manoj
Yeah, well I love that deconstruction of about conversation. This can get very dense. So I'm gonna try to avoid getting into a conversation around free will because that is a whole podcast in and of itself. But I think what your. Saying so skillfully is we have the ability to first observe our experience and then the first place we observe for many of us could be the mind I'm like oh I like this someone is complimenting me I like this someone is saying bad things and don't like that. But then. Being able to witness not just that dialogue but also the internal dialogue. Oh when this person says nice things. My my body feels spacious and light and I feel I feel like my heart beating when they say negative things. It could be a different kind of maybe my stomach is starting to churn. But then it's to it's to have the clear seeing of the mind to interpret the next thing right? So if we say oh, you're saying nice things I want more. It must mean that I'm a good person and then when they say bad things our mind goes into oh I'm a bad person so there's It's this cycle of awareness that's always kind of moving through the through the body the head the body and the head and hopefully if we have a had a practice up until that point we have a frame of reference for our experiences we can say oh okay, this person is saying all these nice things.
43:24.55
Manoj
It feels nice but I know who I am oh I know I have a sense of understanding and awareness of who I am that no matter if this person says good or bad. It doesn't affect me. You know it's not going to change how I think of myself. And I think that that recognition is another part of this because otherwise we can be really thrown around by other people's perception of us. We can be thrown around by what the world thinks of us. But if we cultivate this awareness where like no matter what happens. I'm gonna be okay that it can be that simple I will not abandon myself I will love myself regardless of if I fuck up at work or if I make a mistake in a relationship I know that I am inherently good. And I am aware of all of these things I'm a work in progress but provided we approach our life through this sense of I'm a good person I don't have to do anything to prove it I'm working on myself I'm developing and things. Come and go and you know just be our own friend like all the other shit just falls away almost because we are always evolving and you know we're never going to stop Provider. We're curious about our life for Provider. We're willing to to Evolve. We're always going to change.
44:49.72
flynnskidmore
I Love so much of that and I'm going to I'm going to introduce something that may deviate only 5% from what you're saying but I'm curious to hear what you what you think about it. So. I Used to invest a lot of energy into being perceived as a good person I I really wanted to be perceived as a good person and I wasn't aware of it at the time but I wanted to be perceived as a good person because somewhere along the way I was conditioned to believe that if I'm perceived that way then I'm safe. Then I get love then I'm safe then I get belonging and so therefore then I I constructed this version of safety that relies on being perceived as a good person and if that's my access to safety then I'm probably going to set myself up to try to manipulate other people into seeing me as a good person manipulating percept.
45:40.33
Manoj
And youre go and you're going to and you're also going to avoid experiences that will inherently feel unsafe which is good in one way because it's coming from a place of love you. Don't want to experience suffering.
45:43.79
flynnskidmore
What's that.
45:55.97
Manoj
But the place you experience suffering is also the place you experience? love and joy and that is inherently unstable and uncertain all right? so.
46:02.24
flynnskidmore
I Really like that I write if we are that invested into keeping ourselves safe with with one narrow version of safety. We're going to avoid the things that we really really need for love? Yeah, and so one of the.
46:16.98
Manoj
Yeah, yes, because you know on a.
46:22.13
flynnskidmore
So so like one of the things that like when people are afraid of being seen as a bad person I was just speaking with a client about this yesterday one one of the ways like especially for entrepreneurs one of the ways that that shows up for people is not creating content because they're afraid of the comments and people perceiving them as a bad person.
46:39.22
Manoj
Oh.
46:41.24
flynnskidmore
So That person's safety is predicated on being perceived as a good person and it's terrifying to be perceived as a bad person and that that really hamstrings a lot of people like that makes life very difficult. When your sense of safety rests on being perceived as a good person and avoiding being seen as a bad person I I actually like and and I can understand that what I ask is like who is that version of me who hopes being seen as a good person is going to be the thing that gets me to be safe.
47:00.97
Manoj
Um, for.
47:13.85
flynnskidmore
Like maybe maybe a person learned that like if they get the gold star from the teacher then they get safety but then they set their lives up chasing the gold star and they never get the safety and the love they're looking for. So It's to me like I wouldn't say that that's not true. Safety. I Would just ask is that actually creating as much safety as I want and are there better versions of safety available and if so what does it look like to experiment with those and here's where the deviation part comes in um I would love to hear your thoughts I Actually I don't know that. I'm a good person I don't I don't know if I'm a good person because me like you were saying with positive negative. Good and bad relies to me it relies on and an assumption of ah Objectivity. So Usually when we say I'm a good person it means like I care about people and that means I care about life and I care about people's well-being and if that's the case then I know that life and people's well-being is objectively good therefore I'm a good person I Personally don't know that life and people's well-being. Is objectively good but I do know that I like life and I like people's well-being I know that I like the experience of supporting life growing life contributing to other people's well-being So I don't know if that means that I'm good or not I just know that I like that.
48:37.50
flynnskidmore
And if I like that and I want more of it then I get to spend the rest of my life getting better at creating more of it.
48:43.63
Manoj
Yeah I I like that I like that expression. What I think you're talking about in the terms of my study and and my work is intention and you know. Yes, we don't objectively know if we're a good person but when we wake up in the morning we make decisions based on the awareness that we have and so provided. You don't wake up in the morning and actually know I'm not I don't even know what I was going with that I Think. You know we have this term called basic goodness which sometimes refers to basic okayness and that and what that really translates to is that inherently deep deep down in our psyche in our body when we were born as a child we were born innocent pure.
49:23.60
flynnskidmore
M.
49:39.10
Manoj
And good somewhere along the line. We started to evolve. We picked up ideas. We picked up perceptions. We picked up our personality likes and dislikes and all that sort of stuff and as we evolve and as we grow to who we are today. All we really have are our choices. How are we choosing. To live from a place of love are we choosing to live from a place of awareness are we choosing to live from a place of comfort and what feels easy and what feels good right now and these are all self inquiries that you know people will have to do themselves. But intention is really important like do I choose to to do not necessarily good things. Do I choose to do skillful things you know things that won't cause suffering to myself or other people do I choose to do skillful actions that will lead me towards.
50:34.57
flynnskidmore
Yes, yes.
50:34.76
Manoj
Conditions I want to experience in the future. You know so an example is I love fried chicken and waffles. Um, it makes me feel good in that moment but like 20 minutes afterwards I feel like shit and then definitely a week later I'm still like you know, feeling shit. Like if I was to just do things that felt good. It would actually be quite harmful for me. But instead I'll have a green juice I don't love it. But I'm going to I know it's going to create the conditions for me.
51:02.40
flynnskidmore
Ah.
51:07.58
Manoj
To Feel much better and to be more present to the people I Love to get the sleep that I want to have the energy that I want so intention is really important with with the actions that we do if we can approach every action with the intention to be Kind. You know not to cause harm. Um, then I think generally we create a good life and what that really translates to is also up to people's definition of that.
51:34.31
flynnskidmore
Remember when you were talking about how your thoughts are not your thoughts they are there and you are experiencing them I imagine you know this but some of the most creative. People in the history of the world have also seen it that way like Einstein didn't take ownership of his ideas. He was like they exist and somehow I'm experiencing them and then I get to write them out on a chalkboard um artists musicians athletes like.
51:59.65
Manoj
Oh.
52:06.73
flynnskidmore
That's how some of the people who have created some of the most beautiful things in the world have seen their capacity to create is that it's not theirs. They're not taking ownership of it. They're a vessel through which this thing expresses itself and when you're talking about fried chicken like I Love fried chicken too. Um, and and and I think there's absolutely a place in life to to be eating fried chicken 1000001 of the things that the way that I like to approach life is I'm clear on what I want to be a vessel for I'm clear on the thoughts that I would like to exist in my mind so that I can. Use them as tools to support other people and I'm very clear on the actions that I take that that make it easy for me to be a like lubricated fluid vessel to receive those things. And I'm very clear on the actions that I take that make it really difficult for me to be the vessel of the thing that I would like to offer the world and for me personally it what it comes down to is like how much do I want it. How much do I Want to be a vessel for these things and to be able to share them with the world and if I want it then you know like how how disciplined am I willing to be to set myself up I see it as being in a relationship I don't know who or what this thing is that is happening when I'm journaling but it.
53:32.12
flynnskidmore
It comes through and I see myself as being an an intimate relationship with it being in love with it and therefore I want to be in service of it and devoted to it in some ways and and I think sometimes devotion really does mean eating fried chicken like I think love and inspiration do want that sometimes and I do think that some people. Have bodies like Kobe Bryant was eating full pizzas before winning and Nba championships like some people's bodies are set up to be able to be devoted to inspiration even if they're eating fried chicken every day I know for me personally I'm not so the the view that I have is that. Fried chicken and waffles isn't bad or good. It's not about that. It's it's what are my patterns of energy over time and and what what is my relationship with inspiration like and am I really holding myself accountable to doing the things to be in as beautiful of a relationship with inspiration as I want.
54:25.36
Manoj
Yeah I didn't think we'd spend 5 minutes talking about fried chicken like this. But yeah I think what you said is is really on point. It's that enjoy things enjoy life I think sometimes also we can get. I know I'll speak for myself so dialed in so focused on what where I want to be that it's almost like I'm a horse with blinkers on you know I only see what's in front of me I don't open up and taking all of life and life is about joy as well. You know like I'm not saying don't enjoy it. But. What I have learned over time is to just pay attention to you know it's moderation. It's called the middle path. It's do these things have fun live your life. Don't be so rigid in your experience and also notice like you said like am I energized when i. Eat fried chicken and maybe if for me if I eat once a month I am I love that shit I enjoy my fingers are like um, um, yeah, but if I was to do that every weekend it wouldn't serve me. You know? and um, yeah, it's's I love that story about Kobe because.
55:21.65
flynnskidmore
Yes, yes, Susan.
55:36.76
flynnskidmore
Built different.
55:37.17
Manoj
Some people are just built different and they can and it doesn't mean you have to be like that and it doesn't mean there's something wrong with you If you're not like that. It's really honoring what your needs are it's really honoring what your experience of life is.
55:51.86
flynnskidmore
Before we wrap up. Do you have anything that feels important or exciting to share with people or anything that that that that you that would feel really inspiring to say.
56:08.54
Manoj
Um, yeah I think before we we came on I was talking to you about you know this year I've been experiencing mold toxicity in my body which has you know been really difficult for me because in my mind I have. Got all the the tools to navigate challenging times and here I am for ten months like going through darkness you know in my mind and physically not being able to exercise and do all of that and you know when I'm I'm slowly coming out of the other side of that. And I'm realizing how beautiful life is and how fragile life is and how there is an urgency to life combined with a slowness to it and maybe they go hand in hand. What I mean by that is that live your life right now. You know, tell people you love them. Do the things that light you up. Follow your dreams do all of that and at the same time slow down which it can seem paradoxical but but really, it's not when you're with you know people that you love be really there. And don't be on your phone when you're when you're following your dreams bring some lightness to that because you know I've started 2 companies right now and you know my first one was just grinding grinding grinding and grinding and and with open it was a little bit like that too.
57:39.40
Manoj
And then it wasn't until you know the passing of my mom that I realized oh there's actually more to it as Well. It doesn't mean I have to give up on my dream. It can be like you know, enjoy my time with my with my wife and really savor those moments because they're so fragile and um. The fragility of life is really what makes it so beautiful I think.
57:59.38
flynnskidmore
When we're you know when people are watching athletes doing unbelievably beautiful and impressive things and they say they make it look so easy I think that what's happening is that both. Both of the things that you're talking about are happening at the same time. There's urgency and there's immense stillness immense urgency and immense stillness and I think that you're so right? like it seems paradoxical but they actually coexist just like the mind and the heart and.
58:31.41
Manoj
Are.
58:34.19
flynnskidmore
Like I really to me like that's one of the most beautiful practices of life is to be still while the rest of the world sees you moving super fast and beautifully. But the actual experience is stillness.
58:46.64
Manoj
Right? Yeah, yeah, thank you and this was a great great conversation. Thank you for for having me on.
58:48.61
flynnskidmore
I Love the way that I love that you're inviting to people to live life like that.
58:56.27
flynnskidmore
Thank you so much I Really appreciate your.. It's it's it's clear to me that you know what the fuck is up like you are a student of your mind and your experience and I I Love the way that you. Merge your own experience with all of these wonderful things that you have learned outside of you all of the teachings like you you are the person who knows both the inside and the out and and I appreciate that so much. Yeah, Thank you so much.
59:25.37
Manoj
Thank you brother. Thank.