Understanding Attachment Styles, Emotional Intelligence and Intimacy in Relationships with Brian Yang

In this episode, my guest is Brian Yang, @awakeningwithbrian, a transformational coach. Brian helps people heal the deepest emotional wounds that block them from fulfilling relationships, using SIBS, which is the synergy of somatic work, inner child work, and breathwork.

Brian describes his childhood and capacity for emotional intelligence, the opportunity for deeper intimacy in relationships, anxious and avoidant attachment, and unconscious attachment patterns. He also discusses growth in his relationship, sexual energy, chasing life’s extremes as a form of suppressed trauma, plant medicine, inner acceptance, and shining light on the darkness in life.

This conversation offers an incredible perspective on emotional intelligence in men, the complexity of attachment styles, sexual intimacy in relationships, and the unconscious patterns of awareness and avoidance.

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Transcript

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Flynn Skidmore: Hello, and welcome to the Flynn Skidmore podcast. My goal is to help you become exactly who you want to be. We are here to help you take your biggest, boldest, most beautiful vision for life. And turn that vision into reality. Welcome back to the Flynn Skidmore podcast. My guest today is Brian Yang. You may know him on Instagram as awakening with Brian.

Flynn Skidmore: His content has popped off for good reason. Brian is incredible. Today's conversation is a deep dive into attachment. We explore relationship dynamics that are going to blow your mind. Brian's insight is absolutely phenomenal mind expanding, super tangible. And then we get into an existential conversation about what it means to be people who create content trying to help the world.

Flynn Skidmore: And I know you will find Brian's perspective on that. Absolutely fascinating. I found it super helpful. I can't wait for you to listen. Let's dive in. Okay. So when, when did you start to realize that you have some sort of special capacity for emotional intelligence? 

Brian Yang: That's a great question. When did I first realize that?

Brian Yang: Um, you know, I guess I'll answer in two parts. Um, for one, I grew up as a, you know, growing up as a child, I was always given sort of the, um, the praise from adults that I'm like a little, a little adult, very mature, more mature for my age. I would come to find out that later on that a lot of that is due to trauma.

Brian Yang: At the same time, it gives you gifts, right? Gifts can give you both the pain and the gift and, you know, trauma can give you both a gift and the pain, you know, the polarity together. But I do remember Having bits and pieces like I'm so mature. I'm able to kind of see both sides Which partly because I've had to see both sides of my parents yelling and screaming at each other, right?

Brian Yang: And so that was my childhood a lot of it anyways And so there's that and then you know I guess over time people would I would get a lot of people coming to me just for advice You know, my perspective and kind of grounded, balanced again, seeing both sides because there is always both sides to things because I can see both perspectives.

Brian Yang: And I think because of the way I developed. I've always had this kind of innate ability to not just see something from one, one perspective or my perspective. I'm always seeing like, well, you know, yes, this is how I feel. It's understandable where they're coming from. And perhaps there was a survival mechanism to that, that I had to learn to get me through childhood.

Brian Yang: Right. Um, yeah. 

Flynn Skidmore: What do you think is the ingenuity of that? What do you think is sort of the the nervous system genius of inventing the technology of being able to see multiple perspectives? 

Brian Yang: Yeah, I mean, I think Um, you know, when you, when you're around both parents now, I'll see if I can kind of synthesize it, you know, to that question of like, what's the nervous system stuff that's happening inside, but I'll try and answer it from more like, um, just kind of awareness mechanic perspective first, and we'll see where that goes.

Brian Yang: But I mean, you know, I could see my mom's pain a lot, how she would think because she would voice. Her feelings to me all the time. Again, coming back to like the childhood stuff, I essentially was parentified by her. So I was kind of like her best friend and she would invent all her crap to me. Right. This was happening.

Brian Yang: This is how she felt with her husband or boyfriend. Um, and, and, you know, I got really intimate into the inner workings of her psychology. As, as a result of that, right? Gift and a curse at the same time. Right. And 

Flynn Skidmore: did you enjoy, like, like, did it, does it, did it feel good to bond with her in that way? It was like that was material for closeness for you.

Brian Yang: Absolutely. You know, I think there's a, I felt like the, I was able to be needed and that was the connection was like I was there for her. Right. And so, you know, I think that is really what kind of, I've laid a lot of the foundation for my ability to be more curious and, and, and explorative as far as emotional intelligence goes, because I can, you know, I was just, it was just kind of like laid out on me.

Brian Yang: And so, you know, it was just there and I could see, I could feel it. And then, then I could also see some of that on, you know, I had various father, father figures, but on, on the, the, the masculine side, you know, whether it is. Um, stepdad, boyfriends or whatever. I could also kind of just see their struggles as well.

Brian Yang: Um, You know, on the other side of that and how difficult it was for them to be with my mom and why that was, right? So 

Flynn Skidmore: you could see, you could see from their perspective, they were, they were expressing some things about what about a relationship with your mom was difficult in some ways. And you could actually see that you, you weren't defensive about that.

Flynn Skidmore: You were like, okay, yeah, I can actually see that. And I get that. Absolutely. That's cool. Being able to do that at a young age about your mom, even if it's like other father figures and boyfriends and stuff is a pretty remarkable thing to be able to access. 

Brian Yang: Yeah. You know, it's um, it's an interesting conversation cause I don't think I've ever described or reflected on this quite like that, but it is absolutely like, like I said, like I was saying before, a gift and a curse at the same time, right?

Brian Yang: Because it's also like. Pain associated with that because if I was not that person then like coming back to kind of what you were hinting at I wouldn't have that connection. I wouldn't have a sense of purpose importance to feel seen And so on and so forth, right? So that's the only way I could like function to have connection was like to be in that role Essentially, right?

Brian Yang: So it served multiple purposes 

Flynn Skidmore: and did it help you connect with the father figures? You 

Brian Yang: know wasn't as strong with the father figures primarily with me and my mom Mm hmm. So I was like maybe the 80 percent of that was like me and my mom and maybe 20 percent or even less Was me and the father figures.

Brian Yang: It was more difficult. Me and me and the various father figures were quite frankly, it was hard to connect emotionally. I could just see it, perceive it, but the emotional connection was lacking. Yes. 

Flynn Skidmore: That's what I was going to ask you about. I was, I was, I was wondering about this. Cause like it, one of the things that I realized when I was about 18, this, this hit me like a brick in the face.

Flynn Skidmore: And once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it anymore. I realized that generally. Women are aware of the pain and the insecurity underneath the performance of masculinity that most men are doing and men may not be as aware of that thing that's happening. There may be like Kind of where, but, but hoping that they're getting away with it, with somehow hiding the pain that's there.

Flynn Skidmore: But generally women seem to be aware of it. What I'm hearing you say, and this is really resonating with me because I had such a similar experience as a, as a kid, uh, in terms of what I'm noticing about people's internal worlds and, and holding different perspectives, I'm hearing almost this, this like.

Flynn Skidmore: feminine superpower in you to recognize the pain in men that they may not be aware of and understand that to make sense of the dynamics that you're seeing around you. Absolutely. 

Brian Yang: Yeah. Um, you know, it's a, it is an interesting gift that, you know, forged. Through the fires of the environment that I grew up in, um, that now obviously, you know, um, very long journey, but now obviously it's exactly what I guide people through, right?

Brian Yang: So, um, yeah, absolutely. And I do see that too with the people that both my audience and clients, the majority of them are women. Not all of them, but the majority of it, because again, like what you're saying, they're more in tune with their emotions. They're more in tune with their pain. Therefore, whereas men, not so much, there's a lot more, I think.

Brian Yang: Um, I think there's a lot of just, I think there's, there's some innate stuff with just the masculine energy, but a lot of it's also just societal, which then kind of bleeds into, you know, familial family, um, ecosystems where the manager's not, uh, given the role model. Or the training or the, the, the, you know, the support to get in touch with their emotions safely and be more in tune with them.

Brian Yang: And so, um, they just, they, they're, the condition is like, perform, right? Achieve, um, the, the, the success, um, you know, that kind of thing, right? I'm the provider, I'm the creator, I have to make things happen that way as, as a way to cope with uncomfortable emotions. Women, obviously, very different to that. So absolutely, you know, I see that for across the board, for sure.

Brian Yang: One 

Flynn Skidmore: of the things that I, a pattern that I am noticing, and I get this feedback from women a lot. So one of the things that men seem to do is to, um, I guess one way of describing it is one, uh, the kinder way of describing it is reveal their. Pain and intimate settings with women. Uh, uh, maybe more critical way of describing that is trauma dumping onto women, but like, uh, uh, an interesting pattern that seems to be emerging right now.

Flynn Skidmore: It's like part of the equation of ghosting includes. Early trauma dumping to form some version of intimacy and then sex happens and then ghosting happens. And I hear a lot of women who are confused about this pattern. Like, why is this man, this man is like, uh, seems to be communicating a desire for closest with me.

Flynn Skidmore: He's telling me all about his trauma, which I. Think is a relatively new thing for men to perceive that it's desirable for them to be in and communicate pain. So they're doing that having sex and then ghosting. I'm curious if you are noticing something similar, what you think might be going on with that.

Brian Yang: Yeah. That's an interesting one. You know, I don't think it's been brought up in quite that way. Um, you know, in the communication I've had with my audience or clients, as far as like that, that pattern, right? Or the man dumps their problems onto the woman because it, it maybe creates a sense of vulnerability.

Brian Yang: The woman feels close and then that creates. the opportunity for sex and deeper intimacy and the man disconnects as a result of that. But that disconnecting part absolutely always happens. Um, I mean, it happens a lot, particularly with men with an avoidant attachment style, right? Talking about attachment style, because that's not always true for all men.

Brian Yang: Some, there are men that have anxious attachment. I have clients. Who are men with anxious attachment where that's not the case for them. And the woman is the one that disconnects, if anything, the woman uses sex for, um, the intimacy, but then like, doesn't want actual emotional intimacy, right. But that's on a smaller percentage still there.

Brian Yang: And so, you know, um, well, saying that maybe a, a bigger sense with attachment styles, I'll move it towards that direction with men that have avoid attachment. You know, there's, A natural, through whatever traumas and childhood experiences, there's some kind of association where intimacy, like actual intimacy, emotional intimacy that would potentially be their after sex and lead on to deeper and deeper commitment and longer term, you know, engagement with one another.

Brian Yang: There's a pain associated with that, right? Whether they're conscious of it or not. And that pain is. Could very well be very similar to what I experienced. It's very, it's very buckets of different types of pain. Right, for me it was apparent, the enmeshment, that closest felt like a, uh, A huge responsibility, a drag, a chore, right?

Brian Yang: Obligation, 

Flynn Skidmore: loss of freedom. Obligation, 

Brian Yang: exactly. And so that could be a, what's happening there for them. Um, but also, you know, there's a lot of various flavors of the, of the traumas we experienced growing up. So maybe, you know, um, And it might even go into maybe a little bit of a disorganized attachment thing where like, they want the closeness, but when it gets too close, um, there's also association with maybe abuse, maybe physical abuse, emotional abuse.

Brian Yang: Maybe being betrayed, abandoned, right? It's not all like, you know, one thing. And so that's their way of just kind of getting a little taste of some pleasure, have some dopamine, have a little bit of maybe surface level intimacy, because every human has a desire for intimacy to some degree, even if you have avoidant attachment.

Brian Yang: And then it's like, okay, that's enough. And then let's not go any further than that. I'm just going to unplug, right? Disconnect and ghosting is one way of disconnecting, but that's not the only way, right? You know, try to keep it at arm's length distance, um, and not try to commit further. Uh, other times they might just, you know, get absorbed in work and not really check in with their partner.

Brian Yang: You know, there's different, there's different gradients of that disconnection that someone that's more avoidant leaning, whether it's even men or women, um, can, um, express or, or, you know, behaviors that they would do. 

Flynn Skidmore: I, uh, I notice throughout my life, um, I, I can see patterns of both anxious attachment in myself, but I would predominantly describe my patterns, um, like my unfavorable patterns, because I, like, if I'm being truthful, there's a whole, there's a whole mix of it.

Flynn Skidmore: And even in a relationship where I'm being an, uh, avoidant, I'm also being super secure. Uh, and I think it's important for people to understand. It's like, it's this, uh. It's, it's this sort of beautiful web of protective mechanisms to avoid closeness, but also seek closeness. Like it's a very complex thing.

Flynn Skidmore: Um, but if, you know, I've, I've been reflecting on some of my patterns of avoidance and, and taking a look at some of the times in relationships where I've almost, I've almost chosen a relationship with a person. And I can think of two examples of this in my life where I know I'm going to be the anxious version of myself.

Flynn Skidmore: I know it going in and there's almost like an unconscious addiction to it. Like I need that to happen. And, and I've recently having this recognition. Oh my God. Like I think what was happening for me was that I was, I was thinking that if I really wanted someone, like if I really desired them and I, and I was like super sexually attracted to them and all that, that it was inevitable that I would be this anxious version of myself.

Flynn Skidmore: And then I take a look at my patterns of avoidance with people. And I was like, Whoa, I actually may have been. Choosing people that I know I don't have that level of desire with in order for me to avoid what I think is this like inevitably anxious or this like inevitable anxious wound in me. It's almost like the avoidance was this protective mechanism against my own anxiety and being in a relationship or seeking closeness with a person that I actually wanted to be close to because I was seeing it's inevitable that I'm going to be hurt if that happens.

Brian Yang: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's a very key thing is that we have both to some degrees and, um, we have interesting ways of using those different strategies that just basically protect ourselves, right? From different levels of pain. Um, and so, you know, um, one person 70 percent more avoidantly most of the time.

Brian Yang: And then there's like a 30 percent where they're anxious to paint on the person. Or how much risk they're willing to take. Right. Um, and then other people where they're very, you know, very You know, the seesaw very strong between the two, right? Even within one relationship, but maybe from one relationship to another, that's where you caught disorganized attachment.

Brian Yang: Um, but absolutely. I think that's that, that general dance is there for everybody to some degree, where there's sometimes they're more avoidant in certain situations or different people, and maybe that feels safer to them. Like you're saying, and then other times, um, there's people that are more attracted to you and it triggers more of their anxious, right?

Brian Yang: Um, for me, I think it was almost kind of like, um,

Brian Yang: you know, it was a, I think very similar actually, as I reflect on it now, kind of similar to you where I think most of the time I'm avoidant. And that's kind of like my primary, I would say. But there's definitely an anxiousness there, because I remember that when I was with my, and of course, it was the person I was most attracted to, right?

Brian Yang: So it was very similar to you. My, my now wife, but we were dating for like, I don't know, three or four months, and I was super attracted to her. Right? I had learned to do avoidant tendencies to try to protect myself. Right? And then, when she broke up with me, that's where the anxious pain came in, like abandonment.

Brian Yang: I was crying. I never cried for any girl in my life. I was like crying. I was like Um, feeling that pain of her leaving me, like I'm being left, I was like, that was a very unique experience. And so I think it's, you know, very similar, um, and, and in that respect, but however, when we came back the second time around, I was like a year after we got together and you know, my avoidance tends, you know, the avoidant in me came in pretty strong.

Brian Yang: I was, I, commitment felt primarily like a drag responsibility, losing control, losing freedom. All those type of things, right? Those are the core, roughly the core 

Flynn Skidmore: fears. And those came up even with the person that you were the most attracted to, even with a person that you like desired, you crave it. You, you were noticing these things in yourself of the, that you're going to lose your freedom.

Flynn Skidmore: This, this, maybe this childhood terror, that closeness inevitably means investment. Absolutely. 

Brian Yang: I'll tell you something that was another nuance. As I continue to explore this the first time around, she was not as fully committed to me. That's the nuance right there. Second time around, she went full blast.

Brian Yang: She went fully into her anxious attachment and was just like, up my butt. All up in my grill was visualizing having kids with me, you know, like, uh, like two months in and like, just like, There's nothing holding her back second time around, right? So there's no risk of my anxious attachment being, uh, that level being activated.

Brian Yang: It was like, Oh, this is surefire secure that I'm not going to be left. It's all the balls of my core essentially. And so that my full blown avoidant attachment pain gets to play out in that situation, 

Flynn Skidmore: right? That's fascinating. I, I have almost an identical experience, the different difference in timing, but yeah, the, the Emily, who's, uh, my partner, who I think is highly likely that we'll spend the rest of our lives together.

Flynn Skidmore: Like that's, that's the plan. Um, the exact same thing, like this person that I'm immensely attracted to, uh, actually wasn't fully committed to me. And I had this experience where I was like, well, what? Yeah. The fuck is going on? Like I'm Flynn Skidmore. I'm like one of the most emotionally intelligent men on the planet.

Flynn Skidmore: Like, how are, how are, what, what is happening here that you're not desiring me? And this like need to be, and what I, what I, it made me realize is like this, this sort of image of myself of, of being super desirable, which is paired with, uh, like, like. Paired with this understanding that I do have this high capacity for emotional intelligence, I'm going to be one of the world's best fathers to ever exist.

Flynn Skidmore: Like, I know I have these things, but also seeing myself in this way keeps me safe in some way from the terror of what if I'm actually not desirable? What if the person who I want doesn't want me back? And I had to be With that fear in the early stages of our relationship and it totally fucked up my self concept it I had to I had to rebuild everything without this sort of like, um, uh, inflated perception of who I am and what I can offer is actually like a really beautiful gift that she gave to me and then like, and then there we became like this, this like co commitment ended up happening where the levels of commitment are matched equally.

Brian Yang: Now, beautiful. And that's, that's one thing you said that is so key is that it will force you to force you to break down all the constructs, the, you know, the persona, the mass, the different layers that we, that we layered on top, the protector ourselves, really from that, that core pain that what if I'm not good enough?

Brian Yang: What if I'm going to be left? And so, that's the beautiful thing about relationships, if we're conscious of it, right? If we're unconscious, we're just going to play out those attachment patterns, fight, make up, fight, make up, and then divorce, break up, and then repeat that with somebody else. If we're conscious of it, we can actually allow that almost like crumbling of ourself to happen.

Brian Yang: Yes. So that we can actually face the pain that we've been actually trying to run away from, that the attachment style is trying to protect us from, abandonment, low self worth, you know, to let that absolutely annihilate us, you know, I mean, I'm going long story short here, you know, it's a hell of a journey, easier to say than, than, than to do it.

Brian Yang: But when, when doing so, you know, you get to like really, you know, grow so much from the ground up again and, and reclaiming so many loving parts of ourselves that were always there. But they just, you know, got suppressed, um, you know, ignored, and, and just all these layers of fears and traumas and stuff just lay it on top of that, right?

Brian Yang: But it gets the relationship just gets to rip all that up, you know, the snow globe gets shaken up and all this shit comes up to the surface, all the pain gets kicked up to the surface. And we, if we do not resist the process of that happening, let it come up, go through it, then what's underneath that is so much.

Brian Yang: More beautiful like the real you right that that the infinite love that's always there the wholeness and the perfection That's always there gets to start to at least gradually shine through a lot louder than it was 

Flynn Skidmore: before Mm hmm. So what I'm hearing you say is like most most codependent relationship dynamics and the way that I see codependence is The way that I see codependence is like it's an unconscious agreement that two people are making to be continue to be The wounded version of themselves, almost like their shadows are in love with each other.

Flynn Skidmore: And the relationship is this almost guarantee that both people remain as the shadow version of themselves. And by shatter, I don't necessarily mean evil. Just, I know you know that, but, but the things about us that we keep in the dark. Because we don't trust that we're going to be able to meet those things about ourselves lovingly.

Flynn Skidmore: So we repress them. So people are in their wounds. And like you pointed out, like, unless a person chooses to transform those wounds that come up, they'll argue, they'll get divorced, they'll get in a new relationship, and the exact same thing will happen. Whereas when you use a relationship as a vehicle, Or a container, uh, to practice what I love that you said is practice being your infinite self.

Flynn Skidmore: Like, okay, well, all these self concepts, all these ideas about myself, they're crumbling, they're breaking apart. They're not working to keep me safe anymore in this relationship. So how do I create a version of myself who is safe in this relationship and what does it look like to use this relationship as a safe space for me to be immensely triggered?

Flynn Skidmore: I think that's what I hear you saying. 

Brian Yang: Yeah, in essence, you know, because the, that the, the part that shines through, you know, let's say, you know, we just use simple terms that's easier for people to understand, I suppose, is, um, the more healed version that shines through the more secure person that shines through doesn't get triggered.

Brian Yang: As much less and less, right? As this, as this rises up, then the triggers get less because the layers of fear, it's like, Nope, that's triggered that bad. That starts to quiet down a bit, right? Cause that's part of the snow globe kicking up, right? That's the stuff that does not want to be triggered when you're just allowed to come up then with time, it's a hell of a journey, you know, part of the moment.

Brian Yang: Probably the most important, deepest, biggest journey of a lifetime is that process of letting that stuff come up to the shadows, come up to the surface and you're shining the light on them. And you know, while, while this is a concept now, the feeling of it happening is it can feel like hell, absolute hell, but we, again, if we don't resist that process, then it starts to have less, a hell of a lot control, less control over us.

Brian Yang: And the trigger goes down substantially. They don't happen as much, they don't happen as intensely, right, because we're allowing the pain to be met. Obviously there's a whole journey to do that, but you know, what most people do and what most advice out there is trying to manage the triggers, manage the pain.

Brian Yang: Cope. Right. Cope. Essentially. Right. Go from negative coping to healthy coping. Yes. So to speak. Right. But you're still coping, right? It's like, how could we like, see each other's pain and not try to touch each other's pain? Essentially what that comes down to. Which is not bad, necessarily. You know, you can still do You know, better communication and all that just to kind of give each other a little bit of slack and wiggle room because this stuff is hard, but knowing that I got some serious stuff I still have to face regardless whether you can, you're the best partner for me or not, you know, are the best communicator are there for me or not, I still have to face what's inside and inevitably, even if they're doing their best or I'm doing their best, I'm still going to trigger them because they have the pain inside.

Brian Yang: It's always going to find it. The next thing, the next whack a mole to be triggered by, it's just natural, it's just the way energy works. Energy inside will find an outlet to be, to just cycle until you stop resisting that cycle. Again, easier said than done, but that's the magic of it, essentially. Does that help make more sense?

Flynn Skidmore: Yeah. Do you, um, do you notice a pattern where do, do a lot of people ask you questions or do people come and work with you where the, one of the biggest problems that they're having is that one person in the relationship seems to have a greater desire and capacity for taking a look at that pain and transforming it than the other person does.

Flynn Skidmore: And then tell me about that. What do you, what do you see in that? What's happening in that dynamic? Okay. 

Brian Yang: So I'll break it down to two components here or, um, you know, two ways of exploring this. Um, for one, yes, absolutely. There's usually one that takes the lead. Um, not always, but usually one that takes the lead.

Brian Yang: And very oftentimes it's the woman who's naturally more emotionally aware of her pain and stuff than the man. Um, again, not always, but that's definitely the majority. And that's also okay, right? And like energy, like. We're all interconnected. And so I say to that person is that's it's okay. Just do the work you're aware of it.

Brian Yang: Now 

Flynn Skidmore: go 

Brian Yang: all the way and keep doing it and keep exploring yourself and keep healing whatever pains that's coming up inside you that they're provoking. Right? And in that process, as you transform, and you stay really accountable and to what's going on inside you and working through it, as you change, you're going to show up as a different person to the, to your partnership.

Brian Yang: You're not going to be doing the same stuff as you normally do, and therefore not going to be triggering their stuff as much, and they're going to start to change as well. How they interact with you, right? It's no different than you walk around smiling at everybody. They smile back at you. It's a much higher chance.

Brian Yang: You go out there, you frown at everybody. They're going to give you the same frown, right? Energy matches energy. So as you change your energy, right, just doing the healing work, all your traumas and stuff, they're going to react a hell of a lot more different to you than whatever you've been already doing, right?

Brian Yang: Yeah. Yeah, 

Flynn Skidmore: and I think that what you're saying is So, so important. So I just want us, I wanted this to be highly emphasized for people. Uh, what I'm hearing you say, like the way that I think about this, how I sort of visualize it or see it. Is that, uh, two people are almost like musical notes that create a field of sound around them.

Flynn Skidmore: Uh, that sound could be described as energy. What I hear you saying is that when a person is focused on the other person tuning their note or changing the note that they're playing, not much change happens, but when that same person. Decides to, instead of focusing externally on the other person that they're in a relationship with, when they instead decide to tune, make a choice about the note that they are playing and tune their note and to fall in love with the instrument that they're playing, that creates an environment of sound that almost inherently.

Flynn Skidmore: teaches the other person how to play better themselves, how to make a choice about what they're playing and how to play better themselves. So it's, it's almost like, like not that much, no, no force has to happen. What a person gets to really do is tune their own note, make a choice about the energetic environment they're creating.

Flynn Skidmore: And that in and of itself does more work and creates more progress than most other things. 

Brian Yang: Yeah, a thousand percent, right? And it's very spiritual in nature. Right. All the power is inside you. It's not outside of you, right? It's a little bit of a paradigm shift, um, for a lot of people, not everybody, but it is a paradigm shift of thinking instead of an outside in approach, which is if my partner changes, then I'm going to feel better.

Brian Yang: And only then do I feel better than I'll change for that, right? Back and forth. Right. And you can do that with your entire environment, you know, money, business, friendships, so on and so forth, changing the outside environment to make myself better. Right. So it's the same thing in relationships. Um, I'll add another, uh, you know, flavor to that, which is why I hear a lot too, especially in like more like comments, social media comments is like, you know, my partner doesn't, isn't willing to do this, you know, they didn't want to do this work with me.

Brian Yang: And when I ask those, because I, you know, I know there's a truth behind it, is that, well, you're waiting for them to do the work, but are you really any different than them? You're just waiting and waiting and waiting, and they're not wanting to do the work, but are you doing the work? And you're not really doing the work.

Brian Yang: So you're really quite, quite a match, 

Flynn Skidmore: actually. You're matching each other. Yeah, it's a perfect match. 

Brian Yang: Yeah. Exactly. Right. So you're both in that state of victimization, right? Blaming each other for various, for different reasons, but you're still focused on the other being the problem essentially. Um, and then I'll add another flavor to that, which is that, um, you know, I see two of things, two, one or two things happen.

Brian Yang: You know, you, you do the work and it's, it's really, you know, the work is lifelong growth and evolution. You know, you don't really hop off that train, so you go that path. Um, and they either get challenged or inspired to like, Oh shit, I'm going to lose and I better just start working on myself. Or you get inspired like, wow, this person is changing.

Brian Yang: I love that. And you know, what are they doing? I want to try that. Right. If that doesn't happen, then growing apart also can, will naturally happen. Your frequency is changing. And they'll either challenge you to try to pull you down, like, I don't like what you're doing, or what you're thinking, or how you're behaving, I want to get back to the old us, I've seen, I've heard that too of clients, right?

Brian Yang: But there is no going back, once you see the matrix, you don't, you can't unsee it, like, I can't go into a state of more fear, and go, and more, uh, you know, uh, insecurity, and do that dance, it's like, it's impossible, right? And so, either, If that does happen, then there's just going to be a growing apart, the rift gets bigger and bigger.

Brian Yang: Not from a place of resentment. That's very different. Some people think they're growing up, growing apart from their partner. But really what they're saying is I'm tired of them triggering me and I have resentment towards them. I want to find somebody else. I'm growing apart. Right? Very different. Doing the work.

Brian Yang: You're going to notice that, no, I'm not, I'm just not attracted to this person, not from resentment, but just, we don't, we're just completely on different wavelengths. You cannot see the same world. At all. You're like the two different worlds you're seeing. It's impossible to like, you know, make that work, you know, unless someone shifts.

Brian Yang: Right. To get back on working towards that, the wavelength that you are, you know, um, tuning up to essentially. So, yeah. 

Flynn Skidmore: You know, I, as I, as I hear you say that you're describing this so beautifully, and I'm, I'm reflecting on all of the conversations that I've had with people, all the times people have, uh, expressed that how terrified they are of growing apart.

Flynn Skidmore: And I don't, I don't have this perfectly synthesized yet. I'm curious to, I actually would love your help with, with. Getting this clear, but I think one of the things that's happening there with what I hear you describing is that once you choose the path of infinite evolution, your task, whether you're with this person, whether you're single forever, whether you're with another person is the exact same thing, which is to you.

Flynn Skidmore: Evolve into exactly who you want to become or remember who you are and, and be the infinite self at, you know, like, however we want to describe it, either, whether you're, whether or not you're with this person, your task is the exact same thing. And I think that when, when people. Uh, consider stepping into that journey where they're, where they're no longer waiting for this other person to change in order for them to have permission to become who they want to become.

Flynn Skidmore: They just give themselves permission. One of the things that comes up is the fear of growing apart. And I think what's happening there is that person is projecting their current self. Uh, who's afraid of certain things into the future. But the truth is, is that the future self who's fully committed to the path of evolution isn't that afraid of growing apart.

Flynn Skidmore: But if someone thinks they're going to be afraid, but if they actually become that person, then they won't be afraid to grow apart. It'll actually be very easy and loving to let this relationship go. Exactly. 

Brian Yang: Yeah. Beautifully, beautifully articulated. And, um, you know, I think. At the root of that fear is just basically some flavor of like an abandonment trauma.

Brian Yang: I'm going to lose them. I'm going to be alone in this. And there's a pain and fear and pain of that, right? Essentially, which is them seeing themselves now, like you're saying, exactly like Where, where you are going to is actually that pain isn't going to be there. That's holding you back. Right? Right now, of course, because it's in you.

Brian Yang: Right? That fear of that abandonment, essentially. But as you heal that, then you're not going to worry about that. So exactly. Yeah. Well put. 

Flynn Skidmore: And it's interesting because even if the person is projecting into the future that they may be the one who is outgrowing the partner and therefore they're the one who's likely deciding to end the relationship, there's almost like this fear, this abandonment wound that gets triggered.

Flynn Skidmore: Even in the consideration of you being the one who's choosing to end the relationship. You know what I'm saying? And one of the, one of the things that I've noticed, one of the fears that comes up for people, I'm curious about your take on this, um, is one of the ways that an abandonment wound might express itself is, uh, Oh, well, I believe that this other person has so much potential and I'm waiting for them to fulfill their potential.

Flynn Skidmore: But what happens if I do choose to, if I do commit to the path and fully becoming myself and then they end up fulfilling their potential and then someone else gets to benefit from the best version of them and I don't get that. Have you ever seen that before? 

Brian Yang: I think I've, I've seen it. In my own relationship.

Brian Yang: Yeah. I think I've seen flavors of that and others, but you know, the most intimate where that concern has popped up is my, in my relationship with my wife. I think at both times switching between the two of us where she would have fear. Cause we would do like, you know, we, we. Obviously we're deep, deep in the work week after week.

Brian Yang: It just, you know, again, it's a lifelong journey. But we are also a huge fan of plant medicine, right? And the big shifts happen in plant medicine. We've done lots of ayahuasca, you know, and iboga and other things. And they really shine a light, especially iboga, shine a light on codependency, basically fear.

Brian Yang: Right. The fear that keeps running our life very strongly. And so there are plenty of times where, you know, we're about to do something and she's like scared. She's like, Oh, I'm panicking. I feel like he's going to outgrow me or not want me or love me anymore. Right. That same exact thing. And, um, And then, you know, we got support.

Brian Yang: It's like, no, it doesn't, you know, you both are in this together, going to grow together. So it helped assure her fears from, you know, the facilitators. Like, you both do this together, you're going to grow together. It's just the fear that's right now. That's okay. It's okay that that fear is coming up.

Brian Yang: That's what the medicine does. And so, um, and I've had that fear myself where there's times where like, the thing with growth as a couple, you're not going to grow, it's not going to look the same or be at the same pace, right? Everything's organic, so it's going to kind of like You know, do this kind of thing.

Brian Yang: And so there were times where she was growing very fast. I'm just like amazed at her. And then it struck that insecure, like, Whoa, shit, she's just getting powerful and, and, and she's growing and doing amazing, you know, uh, deep work with herself that she couldn't outgrow me, you know? And so that happened with me as well.

Brian Yang: So I think that's. You know, I've experienced it, and obviously you've seen it, uh, maybe you've experienced it, experienced it yourself. And I think just the fact that you're bringing that up, I'm sure it's very common as well, for those are in the journey together, growing and wondering if one's going to eventually outgrow the other person, right?

Brian Yang: Which is still, at the end of the day, it's still the same thing. It's like that fear of abandonment. Yes. Prevalence still 

Flynn Skidmore: there. Right. This, this, so here's the way that I'm seeing this. I love this. So what I'm, what I'm hearing you say is that, um, in an interdependent relationship where there's a secure attachment where both people have committed to the path, committed to their own personal evolution.

Flynn Skidmore: What I'm, what I'm hearing. Is that there's almost this beautiful dance of competition and cooperation, and I do think that competition and it gets very easy. I think to reject the idea of competition. I think generally the feminine like thinks it doesn't like competition, and I can understand why we have rejected the idea of competition.

Flynn Skidmore: But I think it's time to evolve the idea of competition because what I hear you saying is the most beautiful dance of competition and cooperation. It's like, it's, it's like we, we both want to be able to take up space. Like I'm this cell and I want to breathe and be able to inhale even deeper and take up more space.

Flynn Skidmore: Um, but that means that sometimes that in order for me to take up more space, you have to make a little bit more space, but that you making more, a little bit more space actually gives. You, the material that you need to transform fears in order for you to then breathe in and take up even more space. And then I make room for you to do that.

Flynn Skidmore: And this like lifelong dance of that can be this very beautiful thing. And there is ego involved in that. There is like, Oh my God. Is she going to become so valuable and so desirable and so attractive that she can get a man who's 10 times more valuable than I am and better looking, more athletic, richer, whatever.

Flynn Skidmore: And then you have to find the infinite love and the experience of those fears in order to transform. 

Brian Yang: Right. It just, it creates that, that beautiful moment where it's like, you know, instead of playing into the egoic, you know, trap of it is to like, come back into the, the feeling. Right, the fear, like, let's go into that fear.

Brian Yang: Let's go into it. Let's let it completely envelop us, not resisting us, and in that process, it then transforms you in this, in the same way that you're so beautifully and eloquently, um, you know, the, the cells and the expansion and contraction, right? The, the, the dance between the two. Um, and I also think that there's also a mechanism.

Brian Yang: Uh, you know, an energy that were things, um, things like spiral and I want, it's kind of like, um, two particles spiraling, uh, a counter positions to each other. Right. And, and they, they turn and turn and turn and you kind of switch places, right? Kind of do this kind of thing, you know, as you go upward, you get what I'm saying?

Brian Yang: So, um, it's, it's, It's a beautiful part of the process, uncomfortable at times, but it's like at times we switch places as we kind of do our revolution, uh, you know, revolution in that upward really spiritual journey is that one time I experienced this thing, she's experienced the counter to that. And the other time I experienced this thing.

Brian Yang: Or she experiences a certain thing and I experience the counter to that, right? And it just goes on and on and on, right? This opposing, not necessarily opposing, but just kind of like reflective, um, these perspectives, this polarity that's always there. And it's always there, not just on the beautiful expressions of life, but like, yeah, of course, the traumas, right?

Brian Yang: You're going to switch places. Right one time coming back to attachment like one time she experienced more of her avoidance Like I experienced more of my anxious and then times there's more of my avoidance She experienced more of her anxious, right? So we just kind of keep doing that until we've really kind of exhausted all the different facets of experiencing those fears of that until we've really like let the process unfold and happen and like okay we neutralize that onto the next thing right and then on and on the way it goes.

Brian Yang: Do 

Flynn Skidmore: you, one of the things that I'm thinking about, as I hear you speak about this sort of push, pull, dancing poles, switching magnets, uh, spiraling upwards is the generation of sexual energy. And I noticed like there's, there's almost some. There's this experience that I notice that if I, if I see Emily, uh, if she, if her pace of growth might be a little bit faster than mine in a particular moment, and then those fears come up of, Oh my, like, am I, am I fundamentally abandonable?

Flynn Skidmore: Like, like, is it, you know, it, it, it, it like almost in, it increases. This fire in me to, you know, there's certainly one version of it where it's like, well, I'm going to make more money and be more successful. But the way that I actually see it is like the fire in me, I use it for spiritual transformation, not necessarily like material resource accumulation.

Flynn Skidmore: And my, the bet that I'm making. Is that if I continue to use the drive and the fire for spiritual transformation, that I'll be able to match her and keep up with her energy. And that will have her. And that gives me the highest chance of not being abandoned by her. You know what I mean? It also like.

Flynn Skidmore: Increases attraction and sexual energy to have that dance there. And I'm wondering if, if you, in terms of your understanding of like the energetics of sexuality and creation and polarity, if, if there's something in that. 

Brian Yang: Yeah, I think, you know, I wouldn't by any means call myself a master of sexuality. Um, but my, what I do know about attraction is that it requires opposite energies, that polarity to create, you know, it requires opposite energy to create energy, essentially charge.

Brian Yang: And so I think too, we got to be careful at the same time of like, You know, where that comes from, because there's, um, there can be a little bit of a, of a tricky thing with that where, yes, you know, the avoidant and anxious, because those, those attached, those behaviors, those coping mechanisms come from a place of trauma.

Brian Yang: And, and so, yeah, again, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but I feel like oftentimes that sexual energy is sort of like a trauma sort of bonding thing, right? Yes. It feels exciting. Highs, highs and low lows. Yes. Right? And that, and the high, high and low lows come from that, the trauma polarity, me being anxious or avoidant and then vice versa.

Brian Yang: Right? Yeah. So, you know, I, I would say that, you know, again, like I said, not a master of sexuality. You know, it's an area of study, right? I'm exploring it. I do believe that similar to the path of actualization, growth, healing, all of it, one and the same, is that the more you have worked through a lot of those, that you're not doing that intense, passionate, exciting sort of sexual energy between each other.

Brian Yang: Right. And the same goes for every aspect of the relationship, right? Instead of these high, these, the seesaw back and forth that we call passion and excitement and zest and whatever you want to call that, you know, it starts to get a lot more of the evens out a lot more now for most people, that's going to sound boring, Like a passion, like a chemistry, that's going to be boring.

Brian Yang: And it is boring to someone that is in that trauma, you know, the high, high, high lows thing. And it was for me. Absolutely. Yeah. Cause that's exactly why I want, I wanted more of that. I want the most exciting woman and I want to be sexy and just like so much juiciness to it. Right. Yes. I want exciting. And the reason why I wanted that is because that's one of the, I, I, it was hard for me to feel alive.

Brian Yang: Otherwise I'd suppress myself massively. And so it requires intensity 

Flynn Skidmore: to feel, to stimulate, you need high levels of intensity to stimulate that in you. Cause there's, there's, yeah, there's maybe one way, yes, yes. Okay. I really appreciate your honesty about this is like resonates tremendously. And I'm so glad that you shared the truth that your sense of the pattern and dynamic that I'm describing is likely some sort of.

Flynn Skidmore: Attachment wound pattern. Cause that's my sense too. That's why I was asking. I was like, there's something about this that I don't, that I think there's, there's an opportunity to make this a little, like to make this a little more beautiful here. And what I hear you describing is like the, yes, there's the excitement, the intensity, high levels of stimulation.

Flynn Skidmore: Um, I mean, one way of thinking about that is like a vibrator set on the highest. setting possible, like, like a power tool in order to feel something. But then the question is like, can we attune ourselves to physiologically, spiritually, energetically, biologically, psychologically to be stimulated by, um, by a less intense stimulation?

Flynn Skidmore: Can, can we tap into polarity 

Brian Yang: there? Of course. But it's not this extreme sort of seesaw back and forth, which most people mistaken as like, that's what I want because that's passion and excitement and that's how I'm going to feel good, right? Um, but it's a trick of the ego to chase that because it comes from a place of really, I mean, you know, I try to find the right way to kind of like weave it in there, but it does come from trauma, right?

Brian Yang: Um, cause I, I didn't know that myself, honestly, it was, it was kind of a rude awakening. Um, early in my journey, I thought that's the, that's the, that's the spice of life. Right? Just chasing excitement in general. It wasn't even just around sex and women, but you know, I would, I would, I would travel and, and just want to do like really the, the, the, the craziest wild and it's just interesting things like, you know, flying a, a, a Russian mig jet, you know, three, you know, a 3.

Brian Yang: 5 G forces. So I did that, you know, just doing shit like that. To like kind of feel alive. And I didn't realize that that came from trauma because I had suppressed myself throughout my entire childhood to survive. That the only way I can feel alive and good again is to, you know, increase the amplitude and the, um, the, the more extremeness of, of life, right.

Brian Yang: And some people take it even really far. I mean, you see those people, right. The people that the gentleman junkies, right. That's why they're doing it. And it makes me feel alive. I just thought all. Black and white like that, but there's a big component is there because of that and so I'll kind of like wrap that up.

Brian Yang: It's like, you know as you heal and you learn to feel good inside naturally Right. It's just that, that natural low hum of self love and self acceptance and compassion and just inner peace that, you know, you don't, you don't need to chase, um, so much polarity as much. You're just more at peace with yourself.

Brian Yang: And so there's less things out there that pulls you into that. Direction, essentially, 

Flynn Skidmore: uh, uh, interesting, right? When, when you need, when you need massive intensity in order to feel something in order to feel alive, you will be pulled into something that is intense or dramatic or chaotic externally in order because what, you know, the beautiful thing about that.

Flynn Skidmore: Is that I hear in that and, and to me, that's the same exact thing that's happening, let's say with drug addiction or any addiction. There's like, there's this thing in us that craves aliveness and there are so many traumas and so many, so many things that we accumulate. Uh, throughout our lives that let us know psychologically primarily that it's and then it, and then it calcifies in our bodies, let us know that it's not safe to be the most alive and the most expressive that we need to repress that life in order to be empathic with your mom and then bond with her and be who she needs and in mesh and you have to repress your sense of life.

Flynn Skidmore: Uh, but we, but, but, but there's this thing in us that is driven to be alive, to expand, to breathe. And it will figure out how to be there. And if it needs intense, chaotic, toxic relationship dynamics in order to be there, it will be there. And I, and I know that it creates a lot of pain and a lot of suffering, addiction, relationship, addiction, sex, drugs, whatever.

Flynn Skidmore: But I also see it as this like innately beautiful. thing in us. And if we can learn to dissolve the, the heavy weight on top of that life, we won't need the intensity so much anymore because every single like speaking with you and drinking water is intense and fills me with life, you know? 

Brian Yang: Absolutely.

Brian Yang: Exactly. Right. And that's, and all the healing is slowing everything down to be able to appreciate that, right? Slowing everything down to be able to appreciate just sharing a glass of water. I prefer juice, but we can do wire too. You know, I always say juice too. . 

Flynn Skidmore: I always say juice too. Yeah, I say, uh, fresh.

Flynn Skidmore: Fresh. Squeezed orange juice. It has to be fresh. Squeezed has to be right. Yep. Yep. Savoring that and like opening your body up to let that orange juice like rush through the rivers of your veins and touch every cell in your body. That, that's the thing that you're talking about. That level of appreciation.

Flynn Skidmore: Yes. 

Brian Yang: Yeah. You know, I mean, you've, I'm sure you've done work with plant medicines before and like it just gets you so present with every cell in your body that when you eat that strawberry or that fruit, you taste it a hundred times more than you would normally do when you're just regular, you know, regular day to day sober, whatever.

Brian Yang: Right. Cause it just, there's something about increasing the presence in the moment. Which is something that I'm on a, you know, I'm on that journey to improve that for myself. I'm not saying I'm a perfectly present person, I'm still working on that, but like, I've had enough experiences going in and out of it where I was like, Wow, when you just get really fucking present, there's so much to be pulled out of that.

Brian Yang: But we just miss it completely when we're in that sort of trauma loop of like, you know, what's the next thing? What's the next thing? Or what's the, what happened before? Right? The past and the present. I mean the past, the past and the future. Uh, we're never really quite here. We're just kind of like wafting around the present moment.

Brian Yang: And so when we get into that, it's like, you just, there's so much infinite, like even right here, there's so much fucking power and just the space and just like everything around, you know, again, you know. Not a master of it, but having experience, I know that like it's just about slowing down so you can really appreciate what's there and what's inside here and then you're less than that sort of trauma, you know, dance of like chasing it out there or having to make something happen out there to like.

Brian Yang: Stir it up 

Flynn Skidmore: inside, right? What I'm, what I'm hearing you describe is, is an experience of, of not, it's not just, I can, I can just tell in the way that your face lights up and how you sound and the way you speak about it. It's not just an idea. Like I know that you've felt this before, that there is infinite power.

Flynn Skidmore: An infinite treasure to feel and appreciate in every single moment. And I'm curious for you about what you've, as you've, as you've gained that experience where you know that to be true. And I, and I, I imagine you see it as a challenge. You hold yourself responsible for practicing that as often as possible.

Flynn Skidmore: What has that done for your sense of confidence to know that there's infinite power and infinite treasure to appreciate in every single moment? 

Brian Yang: Yeah, you know, I say this from a perspective of, uh, you know, uh, at least this human archetype that is not, I don't want to call it perfect or anything, or, you know, it's, I'm still right there in it with everybody else growing and figuring life out, right?

Brian Yang: So I want to caveat that. I'm not perfect. Yeah. A master of any of this. Um, I think those are very few and far between and we've, you've heard echoes of them throughout history. But what that has opened up more of, I would say more of is a much higher sense of true acceptance of myself. Not perfect, but like a lot more of that, of like more acceptance of myself, more ease with myself, less having to prove myself.

Brian Yang: Less having to do something to feel something up inside, right? Less chasing things. Again, I'm looking at less. I mean, I don't chase things. I have those moments of being very human, but it's become very noticeably less where I can see it and notice those moments, and it's beautiful. And it's just a constant reminder, like, yep, just keep going, just keep going down the path.

Brian Yang: More of the, more of that to come. Um, inner love, inner acceptance. Um, you know, those kinds of really beautiful things and more of an inner peace, you know, just, just peace. It's all okay. It's all okay. Yeah. 

Flynn Skidmore: And an idea that I love thinking about is like, there, it probably is true that ignorance is bliss.

Flynn Skidmore: But then there's also a version of bliss that is highly aware. And I think that version of bliss is one that has truly learned to be in love with any information that it can. Comes across information about you that you might have formerly been ashamed of or wanted to hide away from the world. Like, of course you need, if you think that something about you inevitably means that you will be rejected or it'll reduce your status, of course, you're incentivized to hide that from yourself in the world, but when you start to learn.

Flynn Skidmore: Like you said before, bringing a light to your shadow when you start to learn how to be in a state of love when you see these things about yourself that you used to think you couldn't be accepted or belong if you have them and you actually learn. I think I heard you say this in here, but I don't want to project, but you learn how to actually use those things as material to strengthen bonds with other people.

Flynn Skidmore: There's like, like the whole world just opens up. There's nothing to hide from anymore. Everything about yourself that you're embarrassed about every mistake that you could make, like, you know how to filter it through your heart and alchemize it to grow more love to connect deeper with other 

Brian Yang: people.

Brian Yang: Yeah, and that's, um, you know, it's like the antidote to a lot of the stuff that we try to hide, because we think hiding it is going to protect us, right? It always comes back to that. Or if they were to see it, then I would be judged, I would, they would, I would feel more not enough and then abandoned, rejected, all those, you know, core things.

Brian Yang: But the antidote to that is actually being vulnerable. Right, sharing those things, you know, whatever environment that, you know, you can at least practice that is You know give you give example, you know, I there was like this one event There's like a hundred people there at least and I I got up and told everyone, you know How what what life was like for me in high school that I would literally hide in the bathroom eat my lunch in the bathroom Because if that's how scared of being seen and being judged I was or shame I held I held about myself I don't have to hide myself Sitting on a toilet eating a cup of ramen noodles.

Brian Yang: And so, you know It's beautiful, right? Yeah, I would once say that. Oh, yeah, I am in here everyone at one point in life I would I would believe that was inherently, you know Lesser than anyone I need to just hide away or create a facade that they can't quite see through either way and so in the journey of Facing that combination of just allowing myself to feel the shame and the pain, and then also practicing being vulnerable, sharing it out there, like that's the antidote to that.

Brian Yang: And it literally dissolves in the same way that you shine a light into a cave, like there's no more boogeyman in there. If you just shine the light on it, like, oh, it's just. It's just a dark cave. That's all, whatever it was. 

Flynn Skidmore: It's like, even if there is a boogeyman in there, there is, if you, if you approach the boogeyman with a sincere desire to understand the boogeyman, like there's probably, you probably is an opportunity for a great conversation in the cave, even if the boogeyman is there.

Brian Yang: Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, I experienced that a lot. Um, you know, especially under, um, plat medicines where it makes it very loud, those types of experiences. And I got in, it's just kind of like, it's like, for me, it had been like living that boogeyman kill me. Cause I thought it was going to kill me metaphorically speaking and like surrender, like, just take me out.

Brian Yang: I'm done. I'm tired of fighting you. You just, you win. Come at me. Right. Come, come at me, bro. And, um, And as you, as soon as you drop the resistance, it's all it is resistance to the more pain and more or whatever that boogeyman changes immediately, just starts to just morph into something else. And I see that also in life too.

Brian Yang: It's the same thing that's happening. Boom, anxious, avoidant attachment, bring it right back there. As soon as you stop resisting how they are and resisting your pain is what you're doing. You're resisting, you're resisting, you're resisting your own pain. That's why you're resisting them. As soon as you stop doing that, it's just, it comes up.

Brian Yang: And then like, you just instantly start to see things differently. It's very, it can happen like that. You can have moments of that too. It's like you facing the boogeyman and you're stopping trying to like control it, fight it. Right. And then that boogeyman changes. And, and, and indeed the conversation changes.

Brian Yang: The relationship completely changes where maybe that, that boogeyman just turns into your friend, right? Yes. Or a cartoon or something. So 

Flynn Skidmore: it's a hundred percent. I had a, I had a funny experience earlier this week, about a week ago. I played too many sports on Saturday and I didn't eat enough. And then at about 7 p.

Flynn Skidmore: m. I, I started, I like got nauseated. I threw up a few times. I, I got into bed, I fell asleep. I had to get up at about 11 p. m. threw up again. And then probably at about 1 a. m. 2 a. m. Something like that. I felt like I needed to throw up again and I was, I was having this experience. It was almost like this, like shamanic intervention where I'm, I'm sweating, I'm in a half dream state and I'll often actually often have those experiences a few times a week where I'm, I'm half awake, half asleep, like uncomfortable, but I'm learning something.

Flynn Skidmore: Uh, I had a cool one last night, but so this was about a week ago and, and I'm, and I'm learning about acceptance and non resistance in this experience and I'm, and I'm able to see, okay, what's happening right now is that I'm terrified of the idea of having to get up and throw up again. It's creating all this fear, all this tension in my body, and it's also making me more sick.

Flynn Skidmore: Well, okay, so what's the thing I'm afraid of? I'm afraid of having to throw up again. What if I just accept that that's a possibility? What if I just say, okay, yeah, that might happen. What will happen? And, and it was really this tangible experience of what it means to actually stop resisting and to accept something.

Flynn Skidmore: It's what is the thing I'm actually afraid of here? And what is it like for me to just be like, yeah, that, that actually could happen. There's a high likelihood that you're going to get up and throw up again. And then what happened was that my body relaxed and I fell asleep and I didn't get up and I, I didn't throw up again.

Flynn Skidmore: It was really a cool experience to, to, to recognize the consequence that I'm afraid of. And then just to accept that there is a likelihood that that consequence happens. And the acceptance of that is the thing. That then reduces the likelihood of the consequence happening. 

Brian Yang: Yes, that beautiful work brother.

Brian Yang: That's amazing. And that's, that's, that's the work right there. Exactly. Right. Day in and day out. And, um, and, um, that's a paradox, right? The universe works in paradoxes. The paradox is like the ego that works from a place of logic and trying to eliminate threats is convinced that to fight that thing is actually how you're surviving and keep.

Brian Yang: You right? Yes. And it's so logical. It's just the smartest, most like clear thing. Like, yep, I gotta do that to like survive and protect myself and so on and prevent more pain and whatever. But that's the paradox is that when you actually allow that thing, the worst thing to happen, that oftentimes it just completely doesn't happen.

Brian Yang: Very, I would say most of the time, or even if it doesn't happen, it happens in a way where, Oh, that wasn't bad at all. Right. So either way, it's actually, yeah, going opposite of the ego. And, and just surrendering and says, you know what? Just if it happens, this could happen. And absolutely. Okay. Just let it happen.

Brian Yang: And then, and then boom, and then boom, it just goes away. There's, there's a lot of shit that just surprises us like, Oh, okay. There you go. Right there. I think 

Flynn Skidmore: that that's that thing that we were sort of touching on earlier with the projection into the future. Like, if, if right now I'm terrified of the idea of losing a relationship, well, I'm, I'm probably not taking into account how resourced and who I will be at the time when I'm a person who decides that this isn't the right relationship, I'm ready to like, we like, we don't take into account.

Flynn Skidmore: How powerful and how strong and how well resourced we will be in the future, how, how capable we are of dancing and elasticity and dynamism. We kind of predict that it's going to be one way and don't trust ourselves to be as powerful as we actually are. 

Brian Yang: Absolutely. We think we're a lot more, we think we're a lot weaker and more helpless than we actually are fundamentally, which again, you want to bring that back to childhood because we experienced that as a child being helpless and no one to support us during those moments.

Brian Yang: And so we're replaying that again as an adult that, Oh, I'm going to be helpless again. I just don't, how am I going to make it through that? That's just going to be at the end. No one's going to be there for me. Right. We're playing that script again. Um, obviously the opposite is true, but that's the work of.

Brian Yang: Not fighting that, that pain, right? Practicing nonresistance and, you know, and in so doing you like literally every time you practice a moment of nonresistance. And it's a muscle, right? I mean, sure, you get into that point. You've done a lot of personal work to get to the point where you can catch those moments, right?

Brian Yang: And it takes, it's a journey to get there. But when you get to that, where you can like have that happen more often in your life, then you level up every single time that happens, like every time it's just like a boom, like you're like, you become lighter. Right. And that becomes another, you know, rep and building that muscle.

Brian Yang: And then you carry that to the next thing and the next thing. And then you just continue to progress like that. But like every single moment like that, you get past it. Like you just get lighter, you level up and you, and oftentimes it unlocks even more gifts. I give you a very, very tangible, um, experience of mine.

Brian Yang: I had struggled with, um, my relationship with. money and success for my entire life. Again, modeled from my childhood. That's what I was the model of the world. That money means you're successful. That means you're special. And so on. That was the, that was just what was indoctrinated into me. I had seen that, you know, and so it was so rooted into me.

Brian Yang: And so I had success and crashed and success and crash and plenty of that stuff. Um, and I had done, I've been on the spiritual journey too, actually, um, for, you know, maybe a couple of years. Before that, before this incident, I'm going to share with you. And I just, I knew it logically that money, money's not important.

Brian Yang: It's it's just, yeah, it's energy. And it's not, has nothing to do with myself worth. I'm not going to be a better, more fulfilled person by making more money. Logically, this is where we're real workers. Like inside my body was subconsciously in the body, in the nervous system. It was just ingrained that.

Brian Yang: Nope. You got to keep chasing that, right? You keep got to keep running that spinning that hamster wheel. And so either you do it consciously or the universe will force it onto you. And so sometimes it's so deeply rooted that you can't just, you can't do it. It's just so deeply rooted. So the next best thing, harder, the harder route, but also still important is the universe then forces it onto you, those lessons.

Brian Yang: And so guess what? Through a bunch of mistakes and failures and whatever crap I did, I basically wiped myself out, right? I literally have multiple millions. liquid, wiped it all out, broke, and now 20, 000 in debt. And I felt all the pain that I was not able to access through my spiritual work and all that.

Brian Yang: I felt all the low self worth, shame, just being a complete idiot, fool, worthless. I should know better than I did, and therefore there's something just so wrong with me. I even remember I was in that state. I was like, Oh, Danica, you know, my wife, you just Just leave me. You don't have to stay with me anymore.

Brian Yang: It was like, she's like, she's like, you're an idiot. I would never do that. But I was being in that state. Right. And so I just like, you know, there's no more protection mechanism. There's no way out. I had to be stuck feeling all of it. And so I had to go, I was forced to go through that. And it was the most magnificent gift, probably the best gift in my life, because what happened after that, you know, I had to get a job, it was very humbling.

Brian Yang: I was self employed for like probably seven, eight years, just the boss of my own life on my own schedule. Now back to in a job working for somebody else, um, and, and having to do that, just surrender and just be completely humbled. And just dropping the audio and just like going, going through like, Oh, this is just what I got to do now.

Brian Yang: This is how it is right now. At least for now. And then as I went through that, did more processing and, and, and working on myself. And at some point it got to a point like, well, what if. If I didn't do what I've always done where all that is extinguished, I don't want to do that anymore. Even if I could make a lot of money, I don't want to do it that way anymore from that place.

Brian Yang: I just, what would be the opposite of that or just something different? Like, well, and so this came to me then. I said, well, why don't I just be fucking of service? Right. I've, I've done a ton of work. I spent like almost a quarter million dollars on personal development. I did like Tony Robbins. I did plenty of therapy, of course, coaching seminars, retreats.

Brian Yang: I'd like just hiring the best. Like there's obviously a lot of value in that I've experienced a lot. I've done a lot. What if I just, you know, start doing something with that? Maybe I just start sharing messages on social media. Maybe it turns into something and then I can like, you know, offer coaching or whatever.

Brian Yang: Maybe there's something I could like, build something off of that. And so I did that. And then, you know, I just, with no expectation, like, oh, this will probably take a very long time, you know, maybe a year before I get any traction to maybe have clients or whatever the hell service I'm going to provide. I didn't even know what I was going to provide.

Brian Yang: I didn't have a link on my bio, nothing. I was just like putting out videos. And then it started to pick up. And within like, you know, the first month, the second month, I had videos go viral. I was like, Oh, this is interesting. You know, maybe I should probably put a link and, you know, just have people sign up for some waitlist to something I can offer later.

Brian Yang: I love that. And then so that happened. And then more videos went viral. And like, you know, my TikTok started blowing up first. And then eventually the Instagram, in fact, it was just so weird too. Because like, there's a funny thing that happened with Instagram. Where I was still working my job. That's how I was going to pay the bills and not just completely go under.

Brian Yang: But that job was not doing well. It was performance based and I needed to produce the numbers and figure out a way. And I just, everything, I had so much experience and success in business, but for some reason I couldn't like bring the results to the job. Like everything I was doing was failing. And I'm like, oh shit, I'm just going to lose this.

Brian Yang: Like literally we're having performance reviews. I'm like, ah, we want to give you more chance. But like, uh, you know, then two weeks or three weeks, like it doesn't turn around. Like we're, we're trying our best to keep you on, but it's just not working. And I'm trying my best to, to make it work. And like, we're just trying to make it work, but it's not right.

Brian Yang: I'm, I was like, Oh shit, this is not working. But at the same time, my stuff was going viral. The waitlist was growing. I was like, okay, I have to prepare, prepare, prepare for the inevitable. Let me just, just throw that out. I'm going to throw out. I'm good. I provide coaching. You know, this is, you know, you can just sign up, do it.

Brian Yang: And then we, and we're off to the races. So I started to get clients and talking to clients. Um, I didn't even really know how to coach. I just had my experience hiring people. So I was just going to do kind of what they do and just use my own intuition, you know, and obviously a lower price just to see what happens and doing that.

Brian Yang: And then the, the week that my job was coming to an end was the same week I got like 100, 000 followers on Instagram within the same week. It's blowing off like, it was just, it was out of my, it was just completely, um, in spirit's hand. Just like, nope, you're gonna, that's gonna end for you. And this is clearly where you're going to do next.

Brian Yang: Right? So like, boom, okay. I do that. And, um, got more clients and, and the job ends and now I'm like a full time coach essentially helping people and, and that evolves to my coaching is rapidly. I just, I'm a very. Methodical, analytical, like just like reiteration, like, okay, I did these three things. This thing worked.

Brian Yang: This thing did not. And just repeating that over and over. And so my coaching is rapidly improving, everything is rapidly growing. And so, you know, long story short, I'm here now with like probably one point over 1. 5 million followers across the different social platforms, um, I guess pretty quickly. And so now I'm doing something that's fully of service.

Brian Yang: I love this. I just love helping people transform and grow and just meet those, the dark cave inside is really what it is. Meet that dark cave. Let's go into it. Let's feel the stuff you don't want to feel and you're going to transform, right? It's impossible not to. And so, you know, that all happened because of that absolute collapse and catastrophe of like getting wiped out, losing all my money, being completely depressed and deep in my pain.

Brian Yang: Thank you. But I didn't resist it. I just like, you know what? This is what's happening. I even knew like this is spirit is doing this. I'm here to learn something and move on to something else. I don't know what that is, but just I'm going to surrender and just drop what I've done and go with what what's what's happening.

Brian Yang: And so it unveiled really a magical, beautiful, more beautiful than anything I could have ever imagined to do something so of service and impactful that I would never have been able to do that had I was still entrenched. With the old me that was attached to money and having to do what I did to do money.

Brian Yang: I just wouldn't able to have the patience or the surrender or the trust. To go in this direction. So it was forced onto me. And so I say that because, you know, for anybody that's going through the shit, we're talking about the resistance, right? I don't want that shit to happen. The thing that worst case, I don't want to be abandoned.

Brian Yang: I don't want to lose my money. I don't want whatever in accepting the worst case scenario sometimes pays you massive dividends on the other side of it. You just can't see it. You're not allowed to see it. That's the nature of spirits. What makes it challenging allows us to grow. We can't see what's going to happen next that can benefit us, but that's worth learning the trust and surrender.

Brian Yang: And you know, it's a practice to learn that. But it is incredible every time you just don't resist the core root pain. As much as it seems like, Oh, this is grueling. Why do I have to do this? I guess I have to do this. Uh, the payoff is fucking huge. Like it will change your life, right? Every moment you do that, it just going to just.

Brian Yang: Move you in an upward trajectory is meant to move you up in an upward trajectory. The more you don't resist the thing that you're scared shitless to face, feel have happened. And so on 

Flynn Skidmore: to you, your, your whole, like one of, one of your main programs that you're operating with is this thing of money success.

Flynn Skidmore: That probably means status, belonging, love, all those resources, all those things. You had built a version of your life where you were pretty successful, but you're still operating with this, um, this like faulty kind of this faulty program that's built on fear. And then, then you are forced to go into your personal hell where you lose all the success.

Flynn Skidmore: You're in debt and you have no choice, but you can either die and you can make it worse or let's say you could either die or you could resist it and make it worse. Or you could surrender, release the resistance and say, this is what it is. Now, here's how I'm going to, here's, here's, here's what I have available to me currently to create this into something else.

Flynn Skidmore: And so then in the process of being in your own personal hell, you then reprogrammed yourself to know that even in the worst possible thing, from the perspective of the program of money, success, and all that. You still have access to love. You still have access to the fresh squeezed orange juice, even in your version, even in your personal health.

Flynn Skidmore: And then you, in that place, you like started working. You, you, you, you get, you, it sounds like you got that. You probably understood intellectually that being of service is like the, the best thing to do, but you, there was like this energetic transformation where you actually could be of service, not just like chasing the idea of being exactly.

Flynn Skidmore: Yeah. Right. Open to that. You started creating content. It popped the fuck off and now you're in this version of success that is a different version of success than before because you're no longer primarily operating with the program that's fear that's fearful of not being successful. Exactly. That's fucking amazing.

Brian Yang: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I want to say that there's not. It's not a perfect thing where there's no fears involved. Of course, there's going to be fears, some fears that pop up like, Oh, this is going to fail or are they going to want this and so on. And I had to work through that as it came up. Um, but fundamentally as root level, it's just coming to a place of like service, betterment of humanity and just doing something that feels good in my heart ultimately, right?

Brian Yang: That's the root of it. Whereas before, like you're saying, yeah, it just came from like low self worth, uh, and wanting to make up for that. 

Flynn Skidmore: Do you ever, do you ever question, so, okay, so here's, here's a place where I get trapped sometimes. I'm curious to hear your take on this. Most of the time I energetically am, am able to be of service.

Flynn Skidmore: I would say like close to 90 percent of the time, maybe 85. Um, but sometimes I have this, this part of me. Who resists the idea of being of service because the idea of being of service and contributing to the well being of humanity or the planet actually relies on a lot of assumptions, such as like that.

Flynn Skidmore: It's a good thing to do that, that it's a good thing to contribute to the well being of all. Uh, and I'm curious about, uh, Some of the resistance that you might experience to being of service. And if there are parts of you who kind of don't buy into the idea of being of service, because in a strange way, learning to be of service is kind of selfishly motivated because it ends up creating the best results possible for you.

Flynn Skidmore: So, yeah, what, what's your relationship with, 

Brian Yang: with that? Well, help me clarify a little bit more. So there's a, there's, there's, um, you said something that, you know, I'm not sure what. The again, that's part of the exploration here because if it is that thing that that's a great conversation. So, um, you said that there's an assumption that being of service is a good thing.

Brian Yang: Yes. Yeah. What do you mean by that? 

Flynn Skidmore: Like if if so, so I'm doing a good thing. I'm doing a thing that I I'm Uh, that I enjoy doing. I get feedback that other people enjoy doing. Like I'm helping people access love and heal wounds. And that creates a planet where more people are able to help more people transform wounds and access love.

Flynn Skidmore: Um, But I can't know that that's a good thing to do that. And there's a part of me that wants to be certain that that's a good thing because if I knew that then I would be More convicted in my message, you know what i'm saying? It would be like What's that? What's 

Brian Yang: the part let's explore that what's the part that feels like it might not necessarily be a good thing What could be the opposite of that?

Brian Yang: I,

Flynn Skidmore: the fear I think is that the fear is probably, um, putting myself on a stage where my intention is to help people, but, but it was, it was for nothing. It, it, it didn't contribute to, yeah, it's, we're, we're kind of like getting to a blind spot here, which is great because I don't yet have language for it, but it's, it's, it's, it's almost like, um, well.

Flynn Skidmore: You chose to do this just because you liked it. You liked the experience of it. And that's not enough for you to be as confident and convicted as you are about the message that you're giving to the world. It's almost like there's this hope that there is some objective truth to the improvement or to the contribution to wellbeing.

Flynn Skidmore: If that's true, that that's a good thing, then I'm allowed to be super confident about what I'm doing. 

Brian Yang: Yeah, so we're going to the spiritual realm. So I think it's going into this juicy conversation. So, um, spiritually there is no good or bad, right? Everything just is, and it all, you know, at least for my, I should caveat that for my spiritual, um, development and understanding of spirituality is that there is no good or bad.

Brian Yang: Right. The negative and the positive that happens in the world is necessary to create an experience that lets the universe kind of experience itself. Right. You know, I've heard that before. God experiencing itself. You cannot experience the positive without a contrast of a negative force, right? So in essence, 

Flynn Skidmore: can I, can I pause you there?

Flynn Skidmore: Yeah, go for it. But then there's something in that. So then, then the question is, okay, so this, there's no good or bad. It's all experience. It's all for the universe to experience itself. Yes. WI, um, can be in that space where there's no answer beyond that. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, okay, that's it.

Flynn Skidmore: Mm-Hmm. . But then sometimes when some people speak about that, the assumption is that experience is a good thing. So there's no such thing good as thing. Good. There's no such thing as good or bad. There's just experience so that God can experience itself. Yeah. But then sometimes that's assuming that experience is like the thing that's supposed to happen.

Flynn Skidmore: Mm-Hmm. . 

Brian Yang: Yeah, you know, that's, uh, and that's another interesting, um, you know, uh, direction and, and exploring and, you know, as I kind of reflect on that, I don't even know if it's necessary because, you know, we were, one thing to keep in mind too, is that we're trying to explore these deeply Spiritual, um, concepts from the very 3d, five sensory human brain, right?

Brian Yang: It's literally locked at a capacity that can't proceed beyond. And that filters that ego that likes to see good or bad, this and that, like to see the separation and the, the, the, the, the categories of life and so on. And so I would say that the universe spirit. God, whatever you want to call it, that wants to experience itself.

Brian Yang: It's not like it's wanting to do it because that's a good thing. I think it's doing it because that's just the inevitable thing. Just like water running down a river. It's just running down the river. It's doing what it does. Get what I'm saying? You wouldn't say that. It's just a good thing. It's a great thing that the water is going down the river.

Brian Yang: It's just no, it's just a function of the river to flow down. Just like it's a function of the universe. God, whatever to experience itself. That's how it would pose that out of that realm of good or bad. It's just, it's just the nature of what the universe is 

Flynn Skidmore: happening. Exactly. 

Brian Yang: Exactly. Right. Does that make more sense?

Brian Yang: It, it 

Flynn Skidmore: does. Yeah. Um, and that, I would say that I spend most of my time in the space, like Being confident about, okay, it is what it is and what we get to do is to make choices about what we want to do with what is and what we want to create. And that's primarily motivated by our preferences and what we like.

Flynn Skidmore: So if you like. The, the increase, the, the, the world's increased access to wellbeing, then that's something that you get to create. If you want to, I guess what it is is like the anxiety of responsibility, the anxiety of the truth that there really is no such thing as good or bad. And that if I want to create content, trying to help people.

Flynn Skidmore: There's nothing that justifies that there's, there's no referee that says, Oh yeah, Flynn, that means you're a good person. That's a good thing. It's truly just because I have chosen to do this and there's no other rationale or justification beyond 

Brian Yang: that. That's what I believe. I think it's just a natural flow of that.

Brian Yang: Remember we, our first conversation about spiraling polarities. Yes. And it's the same kind of idea there as that play. I believe in cycles. I believe in past lives. I believe that. You know, at one point I was probably an asshole, evil person in a past life, and then just cycling. I was a good person, bad person, kind of just playing the game.

Brian Yang: And I think you see this in all of human history as well, where it goes through cycles of fall, collapse, rise, enlightenment, fall, collapse, right? You'll see that past thousands of years and even beyond. And these cycles are just the natural rhythm of the universe. And we're in a rhythm of Coming back to enlightenment so to speak right elevate and you can see it.

Brian Yang: You don't have to like believe me You just open your eyes. You'll see it all around you. You got people you got people that are being vegan Doesn't mean it's good. I was vegan. I'm not right now. I probably come back to it either way There's a man point is that just shows that people are just like conscious enough to care about the well being of something beyond themselves 

Flynn Skidmore: I love that take I love that take.

Flynn Skidmore: Yeah, 

Brian Yang: incredible. And so with that That's a signal like, Oh, we're like, it's not happening everywhere, but it's enough. It's very clear that people are trying to be more conscious beyond themselves, which is a higher level of consciousness than just focus on my survival, what I get. Right. And so that's the flow is moving in that direction.

Brian Yang: And some people in their incarnation, this life will be the person that, you know, I'm going to be part of that flow. I'm going to help that flow a lot because I've experienced plenty of other crap in my cycles of life that now this is what the next. The next stage is and so I think it's more like, you know, you're going to know what that flow is.

Brian Yang: And if you're someone that is totally in the self absorbed state and you just want to accumulate and that's your flow, then that's what you're going to do for this life, right? Next life, you're not going to do that. But either way, it doesn't make that person good or bad. It's just like, you know, it's just a different kind of like texture in the painting.

Brian Yang: That's all it is. And so 

Flynn Skidmore: that's a beautiful, that's a beautiful, a texture in the painting. That's really beautiful. It's like an oil painting where it's three dimensional. Yeah, I love that. Okay. Exactly. 

Brian Yang: Right. So I believe that me and I believe the same thing for you. I've seen your messages and just talking to you that there's a natural innate, at least in this lifetime, innate desire.

Brian Yang: To be of service. That doesn't mean like we're just perfectly of service. We have, we have to still work through our own egoic stuff and playing the, the dance between the self service versus the service to others, which is not good or bad. It's just like you playing the dance, finding out what that balance is.

Brian Yang: And that it gets to be unique to every person. Um, for me, it's moving more into like more and more the service to others. And there's still a part of me that definitely has my own ego, human needs. Like I like to have a nice house. Tall ceilings, big windows like to be around nature. Um, uh, you know, um, I like not necessarily, um, nice cars, but I like a car that has like, that's updated with the latest technology.

Brian Yang: I love technology. I like to upgrade my, my electronics. I'm a tech tech kind of person. So that's just very much human ego stuff. Right. So, and that's also okay. Right. So I think it's just. You know, the key thing is just the more you just work through the trauma and even working through the traumas is not necessarily a good or bad thing.

Brian Yang: It's just, are you ready to do it or not? Maybe you're not. And then you just kind of hold it longer and maybe, maybe you'll be ready later. Or maybe again, the next lifetime, again, depends on what. What you're ready for, right? And then that's just going to pull you in that direction. So that's the best way I would kind of like, um, articulate that.

Flynn Skidmore: That's actually, that's really helped me. I can, I can feel you, you've, you kind of touched on this at some points during this conversation. Like there's one thing to get something intellectually, your body tells the truth of what you actually understand. You know, I can, I can feel lightness in my heart, actually, as we speak about this, which lets me know.

Flynn Skidmore: That there's, I've kind of like, uh, cause I, I do have, um, I do have a strong mind and sometimes my mind needs it. It's, it's not looking to be stubborn, but it is looking for like a key that just gently unlock something that allows me to be in my heart. You know what I'm saying? And what I'm hearing. Yeah, I love and it's awesome.

Flynn Skidmore: It's fun. It's a fun dance to be in. Um, the goal is to be in my body, but sometimes I need something to make enough sense for my mind to, to be the gatekeeper and allow my heart to feel it. What I'm hearing you saying is like, what increased veganism is an indication of increased consciousness because what it means, 

Brian Yang: but 

Flynn Skidmore: generally, yeah, the, the, the, the, the, the trend probably indicates That people, a large group of people are compelled by the idea of being invested in the experience of another being that they don't necessarily immediately identify with.

Flynn Skidmore: So it's, it's just aware. What I hear in that is just aware of more of the information that's available. Exactly. It's aware of more of the information that's available. Now, what seems to happen in this experience is that there are cycles and sometimes being conscious entities, whatever the universe will be on the path of, uh, increased awareness and increased integration.

Flynn Skidmore: And then sometimes it's on the past path of. Increased separation and increased rejection, contraction, expansion, contraction, and so maybe you and I are just coming into this particular life with an inclination towards a curiosity about other people's internal experiences and a desire to help. Other people feel good as simple as that.

Flynn Skidmore: And so let's just ride this experience out and see what happens and get the most of it, but it's not necessarily a good thing to be doing it. But what we get to do is to challenge ourselves at being good at it. Like with what you're saying, it being a, you want to improve at being a coach because you want to be better at helping people feel better internally to go into those caves, to transform the fear, turn it into love.

Flynn Skidmore: It's not a good thing, but it's just the experience that's happening. So we may as well get good at it. Yeah, absolutely. 

Brian Yang: I think that's just natural function of the universe, right? It goes through an expansion, and through that expansion, you're going to go through all the different, I mean, it's related to the chakras, really, all the different, uh, experiences of the, the different chakra points from the root.

Brian Yang: Which is like survival, right? And then into creativity, reproduction and into like sense of self and willpower and extending that sense of self and on and on, right? There's no, there's no good or bad in that whole, in that whole journey. It's just, it's a natural evolution of going from really kind of like a very contracted, maybe fears like the motivating emotion or something.

Brian Yang: And then you just kind of gradually go up the ladder, so to speak. And then I, I believe it does kind of. Loop back in and you repeat that cycle again, right? On a super macro level, but it's also happening on a micro level. 

Flynn Skidmore: Yes, that makes, that makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah. It's, it's like so beautiful to think about as a kid, your inclination was to be close with your mother and develop the skill of empathy and listening.

Flynn Skidmore: You mean there's, there, there are infinite options for how you could have responded to that environment in your childhood. You could have said, fuck you. I'm not like I'm, I'm shutting down from all relationships. I'm rejecting everything. You as a, as a, this like gentle little curious nervous system.

Flynn Skidmore: Oriented toward closeness and it created some wounds in the process and now it's the responsibility of your life to, uh, actually to maximize your orientation towards closeness while transforming and healing the wounds that you learned in that journey and then helping others. 

Brian Yang: Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

Brian Yang: Right? Those, those wounds turn at both. The wounds are the, also the gift. It's the, it's the funniest thing. The very thing that kind of drives us is the very thing that becomes our gift, essentially, to the world if we can transmute. You know, the, and change the relationship with essentially, 

Flynn Skidmore: I love that change the relationship with the wound allows you to then be able to use the wound to benefit other people to benefit you and to benefit other people.

Flynn Skidmore: Absolutely. One of the things that I, I really, I've been playing around with this idea recently, I think things, entities, um, beings. Really enjoy getting to perceive themselves as beneficial and most of what we do with our wounds is unconsciously engage in a relationship with them where we communicate to them that they're not beneficial, that they're only harmful and painful.

Flynn Skidmore: And I think that relationship with our wounds actually turns them into painful black holes, which then suck the joy into them. Whereas when we can relate to our wounds lovingly and energetically communicate to them that they're actually massively beneficial, we want them to belong to us. We love them.

Flynn Skidmore: Uh, we, they, they We want them to benefit from us and we benefit from them. That seems to be the thing that alchemizes the wound and turns it into energy, which then can be invested into other people. Yeah, 

Brian Yang: absolutely. And it's a beautiful process. Yeah, that's what gives everyone that their unique sort of sauce that they, you know, that they bring to the world to add to the painting of life.

Flynn Skidmore: The painting of life. I love that so much. Hey, this is, this has been fantastic. You um, your mind and your heart have probably gone to the, the edges of, Of the places that humans have gone, and it's really, really, really amazing to hear you describe your experience. You just, you describe this experience of awareness and consciousness.

Flynn Skidmore: Um, I, I really appreciate your perspective. 

Brian Yang: Yeah, I appreciate that. And I appreciate your perspective. You know, I mean, I don't just say that just to echo it back, but I've enjoyed this conversation, your ability to kind of like rephrase and articulate Um, also very visually to, um, the concepts to, to kind of be able to explore it deeper is really beautiful.

Brian Yang: I mean, it's like, obviously why your podcast is doing so well, because you just got that ability, which is really cool. 

Flynn Skidmore: Thank you so much. Yeah. I, I, in order to, I, I'm very visual. I need to, I like synthesize or I like synthesizing and repeating it back because what I'm actually doing is running the visuals in my mind as I'm doing it.

Flynn Skidmore: And if you affirm that the words are correct, then I know that. The visuals in my mind are correct. And it's like, yup. Okay. Then I can store these in my body. I know I've got this thing now. Um, so thank you for recognizing that. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. Thank you for making it with us until this point. And I'm so glad you did, because that means you got to hear.

Flynn Skidmore: All of Brian's phenomenal insight, all of the stuff from attachment dynamics to Brian's story about going to his own personal hell, transforming his fears and all the programming and conditioning he had about money and success. And now. Uh, obviously operating with an energy that is super attractive and creating a beautiful form of success.

Flynn Skidmore: And I really loved the conversation about, uh, what it means to be a person who wants to contribute to the wellbeing of the world that has elevated my experience. So thank you, Brian, so much for being here. Thank you for being you sharing your insights, helping people, your commitment to improving the world.

Flynn Skidmore: And thank you all for doing the same. I appreciate you all so much. I love you. Have a great day.