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Building a Positive Body Image with Dr. Charlotte Markey

• Danielle Nicole La Rose

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Join me as I get the chance to discuss my favorite topic with Dr. Charlotte Markey, a leading body image scientist and psychology professor at Rutgers University. We'll unpack the multifaceted nature of body image, which extends beyond mere thoughts and feelings. Dr. Markey sheds light on the significant impact body image has on mental health and social behaviors, as well as the pervasive influence of social media on young people's perception of their bodies.

Learn the art of balancing fitness goals with life's other priorities without sacrificing mental health or personal relationships. Society often pushes us towards unrealistic physical ideals, but we discuss the importance of setting achievable goals that bring satisfaction and well-being. We'll also explore how to love your body while seeking improvement, drawing parallels to lifelong learning and the pursuit of knowledge. This conversation underscores a shift towards valuing strength, health, and nourishment, offering a fresh perspective for individuals at any stage of life.

Dr. Markey shares practical advice on embracing positive self-talk, encouraging listeners to amplify the good they see in themselves. Join us for an enlightening discussion on nurturing self-kindness and transforming body image from a source of stress into a pathway to confidence and acceptance.

To learn more about Charlotte Markey, you can visit her website
at www.CharlotteMarkey.com.
Connect with her on Facebook (Dr. Charlotte Markey), Instagram (@char_markey),
TikTok (@charmarkey), Threads (@char_markey), or Substack (@BODY TALK).



Let's Connect:
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https://www.daniellenicolelarose.com/

Danielle La Rose:

Have you ever wondered what it'd be like to sit down and be able to ask questions to someone who is a real body image scientist, who literally studies body image and eating behaviors? Well, if you don't, I do. Every single day I have dreamed of this day to sit down with our guest, dr Charlotte Markey. Because she's done it. She is a body image scientist and she is passionate about understanding how to help people have a healthy relationship with their bodies and food. She's a psychology professor at Rutgers University and a research scientist who has literally published over a hundred scholarly articles and chapters about health issues. I mean, if we want to know the real stuff, not just self-love guru stuff on social media that we see, but research-based information from an expert who is doing the work, who is in the field, this is the person, and I'm so honored that she took the minute to sit down 30 minutes to sit down with me, to where I could ask the questions that many of you have sent in to me. Can you love your body and want to change it at the same time? How can moms instill a positive body image with their kiddos? What about fitness and workouts? How do we do that from a positive body image standpoint, and I mean, does losing weight actually make us happy and what does the research find about that? So I asked all the questions. I could have talked to her for hours and hours and hours. I was totally nerding out and nervous, but it was incredible.

Danielle La Rose:

I hope that you enjoyed today's episode. I would love to hear your thoughts. I would love to hear how this transforms your mindset a bit more about your body image. So let's jump right in. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I know that all the juiciness that you're going to share is going to help so many humans, including myself, because I'm so excited to talk to you. So thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

Oh, that's really generous. I'm really happy to be here.

Danielle La Rose:

Yeah, okay. So let's just jump in. Let's tell me, like nitty gritty, what is body image? We hear a lot about body positivity and body neutrality and all those popular things on social media, but what is body image?

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

So I have a very broad view of body image, and I think of body image as not just how we think and feel about our bodies, but really how we treat our bodies, so our sense of self-respect and self-compassion. Our body image is also very much associated with our behavioral health. So what behaviors do we engage in concerning our bodies? Do we nourish ourselves adequately, for example? Our social lives are very much associated with our sense of our bodies. What situations do we avoid? What do we engage in? A lot of that stems from how comfortable we are in our own bodies and, of course, our mental health in general is linked with our body image. So not just eating disorders, but we know from decades of research that your body image is associated with your tendency to experience things like depression, anxiety, even substance use problems.

Danielle La Rose:

And it's so interesting because I think if you went on the street and just asked a lot of people what is body image, right, I think some people would probably say, well, it's just what you think about your body. End of discussion, that's it. And so I love this whole. It's like literally your whole entire life affects, like that is your body, your body image. And I like I really appreciate the word like comfortable, like how comfortable do you feel in your body? And I don't think that's a question that we ask ourselves a lot. So tell me what. So you're a body image researcher, so what? What made you choose this field? How did you get into it and say that's the thing I'm going to study for the rest of my life?

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

I don't think of any of us, that any of us really know what we want to do for the rest of our lives, usually when we're younger, right.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

So I've just been lucky to end up on a path that continues to interest me even after, you know, almost three decades at this point.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

But you know, I think there are a lot of things I can point to that helped put me on this path.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

So, even as a young child, I was a ballet dancer and I was just, you know, immersed in a world where there was a lot of body scrutiny and I think that impacted how I thought about my own body, how uncomfortable I was in my own body as a young person, and also just made me very aware of how people think about and talk about these issues, because in the ballet world all of it was very explicit. So you know, I think that in many of our families or in other social circles, some of the language is more implied, it's not always as explicit as it was in the dance world. So from a very young age, you know, I heard what people thought about my own and others' bodies. So I think that just is part of you know what. What drew me to the, the area of study, and I think too, you know, like there's always things that are changing in our social and cultural environments that make it new and interesting. You know, social media didn't exist when I started this work.

Danielle La Rose:

Yeah. And yeah, now that you mentioned that, what would you say? How has social media impacted body image, or has it?

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

I mean, I think it has right, but that wasn't something we knew was coming Right Right. I think that the way we present ourselves to the world on social media is relevant and social media doesn't have to be a negative experience, but for many people, especially young people, when it comes to mental health and body image, it can be negative.

Danielle La Rose:

Yeah. So what if you know? Mom is listening right now and she's like yes, of course social media is the problem, but we also know that that's the world we live in and kids that's where they hang out, you know. And so what can moms or just humans in general that are passionate about helping kids have a more positive body image, what can we do in regards to social media to try to help with that?

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

image. What can we do in regards to social media to try to help with that? Well, I talk about this a lot in Adultish and all of my body image books because I think it's something we really need to be thoughtful about in order to protect kids' mental health. But also adults need to be thinking about these things in a thoughtful way, and a lot of it is, I think, knowing how to make all of these algorithms work for us.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

So one of the interesting things about social media is that we drive the algorithms to a large extent right who we like, who we follow we like, who we follow we click on. Then we get more of that. So we have to be careful where we're clicking, so to speak, if we want to get information that's going to be adaptive, that's going to be evidence-based, that's going to be supportive of our mental health. So I think young people need to hear about that, need to be really taught media literacy. I mean, I think that this is probably the most important and completely neglected area of public health right now is just teaching young people media literacy, because if they're going to go to social media for all health information, they need to know how to decipher what's real and what's not.

Danielle La Rose:

Yeah, no, that's great, you know, supporting a positive body image. What are some things that you have seen, have researched, have like just know that, what is what is helpful for people to see and what is not helpful? You know, I've read a lot of things. Right, If, if we, if we keep showing our cellulite and our wrinkles and our roles and saying this is normal, all we're doing is continuing to think about our bodies, right, we're not getting out of that mindset of my body is the most important thing. So what would your response to that be and what do you think that we should be doing and sharing to help?

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

Well, I think it is important that we see body diversity in media and public spaces, that we're not just focused in on ideal bodies that no one can actually achieve. So I think it's okay sometimes to share some of our imperfections or to be less curated in some of what we present, but then we also know that even if we do present what's more realistic, or if we do present imagery and explain it or label it you know some of the research suggests it can still be depressing or upsetting to people. So I think we have to be, you know, just careful about what we're presenting but also, like you said, not keep the focus entirely on appearances, which is hard, because a lot of these media formats are just all about appearance, right, right.

Danielle La Rose:

Yeah, it's a picture, right. We got to grab people's attention to make them read. So what can I post and share to make it jaw? Dropping that people want to read what I have to say, dropping that people want to read what I have to say, right, and so that balance is is very tricky. So, based, like you just mentioned, with research, is there anything that you've you've done your research has? Maybe you went into it thinking this is going to be the outcome and you found something completely different. You know, one of the things I love about adultish your book is how you pull out the myths. Right, like, here are the myths that are being spread everywhere about body image, and here's actual facts based on research. So, have you been surprised by any? Is there one thing that you've been surprised by with your research?

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

Yeah, I think I've been doing this for so long that not a lot surprises me anymore, but I do think that something that tends to surprise other people is, you know, just some of the research that suggests that some of the more inspirational type content actually does not motivate people or make them feel better, that it does tend to actually elicit a more negative response to viewers.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

It's not inspiring, and I think a lot of that's just because, you know, when people are trying to present themselves as like a fitness expert, they look the part typically, and most of us will not look that part ever, because that's not what we do for a living. We're not like fitness experts for a living, most of us. So we don't spend as much time at the gym and we don't, you know, focus on having like perfectly toned arms or whatever, because we have other things to do so so, so I do think that that has been found in multiple studies at this point, Okay, and so I love that you went there and I hope that it's okay that I'm going to go here with you.

Danielle La Rose:

as someone who is part of the fitness world as a group fitness instructor and trainer, I am really curious to know what you think. If you could, you know, go talk to all trainers in the world and be like stop doing this or start doing that to help people get and again we can define this word next, but healthy, like actual health what would you wish that? You could just like grab them and shake them and say stop doing this or do this. Wish that you?

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

could just like grab them and shake them and say, stop doing this or do this. I mean, I think you know it's difficult, because what catches people's attention in media spaces is the extreme, and it's the extreme that's unrealistic and impractical and not sustainable for most people, and that's true in terms of any kind of like appearance modification, it's true of dieting, it's true of most fitness regimens, right? So I mean, I guess the message I would want fitness professionals putting out there is more about, you know, essentially moderation or enjoying activity, picking things you like. Yes, we know there's good evidence that being active is good for your body and your mind. So that's not really the question. I think it's more about how to help people find things they like that they'll keep doing, that they won't necessarily prioritize over other important parts of their life. So you know, those are not the extreme messages, though. So it's hard to grab people's attention with nuance.

Danielle La Rose:

Yeah, for sure, For sure, Absolutely Right. You open, you go to any gym, you see any advertisement. It's always the before and after picture, right, Like this is the goal. This is what we're going for and I love. I just had to pull out this one. I won't get it exactly how you said it, but not prioritizing that over other parts of your life. Can you tell me a little bit more about what you mean by that?

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

Yeah. So I think that you know a lot of times, right. There's only so many hours in the day. We all have to make choices how we're going to spend our time, and I think it's important that people are active if they can be, if they're physically able, and yet it's not necessarily more important than getting enough sleep, it's not necessarily more important than, you know, spending time with your kids or your partner or your friends, right? So I think that you know we have to be aware of doing, kind of all the things that we can that are important to us, not just physically but psychologically.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

And, of course, I'm trained as a psychologist, so I'm going to think about that more, right? Like I'm not just thinking about physical health, I'm thinking about mental health, and I'm also thinking about how, when people try to change behaviors, like you know, when the new year comes and everyone's number one resolution is get in shape, right, year after year after year, there's a reason why people pick the same year's resolution year after year after year, and it's because they can't maintain it, right? So, as someone who has studied behavior change, I like to think about it in terms of like, well, what could you actually maintain? What would actually be satisfying and rewarding to you and not neglect those other areas of your life that should also be important to you.

Danielle La Rose:

Yeah, oh, might drop right there. I love that so much Cause I do think when people, when we do go trying to make a behavior change, we drop everything and it's like that is number one focus and if we really think about it in our life, like that's probably not our top priority, right, like having six pack abs for me is not a top priority, but I might spend my whole time and energy trying to achieve that because that's what I've been sold and told that I should be doing. So I love, I love that. Now one question that a lot of people, when I go on my tangents and I start, you know, quoting books like adult-ish, they always say well, can you, can you love your body and want to change it at the same time? What would be your response to that?

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

Yeah, I love this question. It's something I I don't think I struggle with in answering for myself, but I feel like sometimes it's hard to provide a compelling answer to other people because a lot of people think these are mutually exclusive, and I think an analogy can be helpful here. So the analogy I like to use is you know, like, I've been studying in my chosen field for many, many years and I think I'm reasonably intelligent in this area, right? So I am content and sort of accepting of what I know in my I guess you know intelligence or whatever. But also I'm continually reading. But also I'm continually reading, I'm continually trying to learn more, and that's not because I think I'm inadequate in any way, it's because I want to improve still. It's because I want to learn what's new or what's better ourselves in other domains in a similar way. That that can be a useful approach, right, like I can think, I generally like my body, I'm pretty comfortable in my own skin.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

But you know and this is true, as I'm getting older, I do think more about my strength and um making sure that for the long haul this body is going to carry me through life, and so when I was younger I didn't care about like strength training at all, and it's not my favorite thing to do, but it's something I think about more now because, um, even though I don't feel, like you know, I'm not aiming for like a six pack Um, like you know, I'm not aiming for like a six pack I still want my core strength to help support me.

Danielle La Rose:

So if I fall or something I don't break a hip, right, yeah. And I I love that you said that too, because I just recently went to the doctor and was like, oh, my lower back is hurting. And she says do some core exercise, right, we want, we need strength, and so it's one of those things where a lot of times you know from my experience, right, I only heard women and people talking about going to the gym and working out just to lose weight. It wasn't to have a strong core, it wasn't to be strong, it wasn't to help our bones, it was just a tool to lose weight. Same with food Food was a tool to lose weight, it wasn't a way to nourish your body and feel better and have energy and all of those things.

Danielle La Rose:

And I really liked that part of your book, too, where you mentioned that you know a lot of people, when they start thinking about intuitive eating or different things like that, we think that, oh well, you just do whatever you want, right? And in your book you talk a lot about these things of no like. When you actually listen to your body, it will tell you what it needs and how like, and so I just really appreciate those pieces too. That are so, so helpful. I know this is a book for young adults. I'm not considered a young adult, but this book is so good so I've been telling moms and everyone like you should read this, because it just touches on those things. That's so, so, so important.

Danielle La Rose:

I want to kind of go back a little when we were talking about fitness and weight. I think a lot of people have this conception that if I just lose weight right and I get closer to those beauty standards that are set, I might not reach them right, because we know we're never going to reach those, but I get closer to that, that means I'll be happier, I'll be healthier, I'll have a positive body image. So can you talk a little bit about how do we work on our body image? Or is it something that a positive body image will come when I lose weight, or what does that nuance look like?

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

So I think that the message we're sold, typically in the media and especially when it comes to different products and plans, is like you need to change yourself, and once you change yourself you'll feel good about yourself. In other words, there's all these things that are wrong with you, so work on them and then you'll feel good. And, of course, none of us are perfect. All of us have things wrong with ourselves, whether it be, you know, psychologically or physically or whatever, right, I mean, none of us are perfect, but I mean the goal is not perfection. So, you know, I think most of the data suggest that body image is much more psychological and much less dependent on um, on our physical appearance, than people realize. And so sort of building up that sense of comfort with who we are is a mental process more than something we can, you know, achieve by transforming our external self. And you know, some of the good evidence for this comes from, I think, the eating disorder literature, the body dysmorphia literature that you know there's a lot of research to suggest that when people start to change their appearance, they don't tend to feel better. They then tend to want to change it more. So it's not like oh, I lost five pounds, great, I feel good. Now. It's like now I want to lose five more pounds, right.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

And the same thing we even see when people pursue cosmetic surgery. It's not like, oh, I fixed my nose, fix being in quotes here, you know, great, I'm done. No, it's. Then usually people go back. Repeat customers are the largest segment of cosmetic surgery consumers. So I fix again in quotes I fixed my nose, all right, now I want to fix my stomach, right. So there's never really an end point is the problem. And so if you think about it like, oh, I have to do all these external things and then I'll feel good, I think you're setting yourself up for like a very, very long process. And so we really want to think more about like, can we work on our mental health and shoring up our sense of security with ourselves, regardless of what's going on, sort of on the outside?

Danielle La Rose:

Okay, so let's say I wake up today with a poor body image, right? I've heard you talk about this a lot. You know, just because someone says that they love and appreciate their body doesn't mean that every single day they wake up and they're like I love my body, right? So let's say I wake up today negative body image. I'm just really in a funk. What would be? Are there tips and strategies and things that work for people to help them? You know, even just throughout the day maybe not long term, maybe that's a bigger process, but just in the day are there things that people can do to help with their body image?

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

So it's important when we have those days because we all have those days to regard ourselves very compassionately, so to acknowledge it, like, okay, I don't feel great today, everyone has these days. I'm not going to do anything drastic. This isn't about punishing myself for feeling this way, because feeling this way is pretty normal. I'm going to do things that might make me feel better, right? So for me that means I do try to be active, because I usually just feel better if I go on a walk or a run. Right? Irrespective of my you know temporary sense of body image, those things help boost my mental health. So I may make a pointed decision like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do those things, I'm gonna move something around so I can fit that into my schedule.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

You can also just dress comfortably, like, just those are good days to throw on a comfy sweatshirt or, um, you know, just allow yourself to be comfortable so that you can help to mitigate that sense of maybe just feeling less at ease, as you would want to. And sometimes it's even just about distracting yourself, right? I mean, if I wake up and I'm not feeling like I'm bringing my A game, you know, sometimes it helps me. Just get to work, just start doing what I'm doing and then I think about it less, I'm distracted, you know. So these are kind of in some ways just good coping techniques for any kind of a bad day. I think right, like, do things that make you happy. And for some people that may mean like call a friend or text a friend and say like hey, can you do lunch today or do you want to grab coffee this afternoon? Really quick, I need like a half hour break, or you know whatever works for you.

Danielle La Rose:

Yeah, and I think it's really important that you share that. You know you said there are basic coping mechanisms, but I, a lot of people don't think about, you know, if they have a poor body image day, right, they're just not feeling the best. That that's need for coping mechanisms, like doing something that brings you joy, or moving your body or taking your mind off of it by doing something else. I don't think we think about that. I think I guess I'm speaking for myself.

Danielle La Rose:

Right, several years ago, I would wake up and just be like I just don't like this about my body at all. I'm going to stress about it all day. But this is normal because, right, like a lot of women experience this I've heard this all growing up that you know we complain about our legs, we complain about our bellies, we complain about all these things, and that's just the way that it is, and so I would have never thought to just say I can do something. Right, I think we have more. What you're sharing, I think, tells us that we have more control than we think that we do. Right, when we have those thoughts that we can do something, like we don't have control but we can do something about it. It doesn't have to just be the way that it is right.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

I think that's right, but I think we have to be careful in thinking about control, because our bodies are going to change across our lifetime, no matter what we do.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

Like we don't have complete control, right, because our bodies are aging every day, and especially for women, if they experience, you know, pregnancy or are raising young children and dealing with a postpartum body or dealing with perimenopause or menopause.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

I mean, there's just a lot of times in our lives where we don't have total control. We can cope, we can do those things we talked about, and I would say that for most people, those are pretty adaptive coping strategies and we want to try to avoid maladaptive coping strategies. And we want to try to avoid maladaptive coping strategies, which is then, you know, maybe waking up and feeling really uncomfortable and bloated or something, and thinking I'm not going to have breakfast or I'm going to, you know. You know not nourish myself properly, because this is how I feel. Or you know not nourish myself properly because this is how I feel. Or you know, over exercise or whatever it may be right. So there's certainly more adaptive ways, right, like connecting with someone socially or distracting yourself, right. These are usually adaptive coping strategies, but we don't want to let our our sort of more neurotic brains take us to maladaptive places.

Danielle La Rose:

Yeah, thank you for pointing that out. Yeah, control wasn't the right word, right? So we're focused on the actions, right, knowing that we have the ability to take actions that can help us to feel better with those thoughts, thank you, that's great. Okay, so let's say I'm a mom, or, again, just a human who works with littles, and I want to, you know, make sure that I'm doing things that are supportive. Are there things that I should say, not say, things I should do not do, like what would be your best advice for adults of what to do to help kids?

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

not do Like what would be your best advice for adults of what to do to help kids.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

So I think the first thing adults can do is work on their own body image and if they're not in a good place in terms of their own body image, then fake it till you make it. Do not say disparaging things about your body in front of other young people, because it normalizes that that, like everyone hates everything about their bodies, and I think many people you know certainly of my generation I think I'm older than you, but I would suspect that you had a similar experience where you grew up in especially female-dominated spaces where it was just normal for people to criticize their bodies, and then you learn that sense of like everyone hates their body. That's normal, right, and that's not what we want for young people. We want people to like their bodies and want to take good care of them and want them to be respected. So I think that the first place to start is really just, you know, being careful not to be self-disparaging and certainly not to be directly disparaging of other bodies either.

Danielle La Rose:

Yeah, that's great. Okay, so I could literally talk to you all day long. I have so many questions about all the research, all the things, but I won't take up all your time because you're a busy human. So what would you, if you could tell anyone, what would you hope that they would whether it's something in their head right, that they're thinking all the time, or that they're seeing social media, whatever that you wish that they would turn down a little bit. And then what do you wish? That they would turn up a little bit more?

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

So I think for turning down, we all need to probably get a little bit better with how much we what we call engage in body surveillance, which is like we don't need to spend so much time critiquing, worrying about our appearance. You know, I try to tell people like, you know, look in the mirror when you leave for the day or you leave the house, make sure you have nothing stuck in your teeth, and then, like try not to think about it. Right, like I'm not saying never look in a mirror or anything. That's unrealistic, I think. But instead of sort of constantly feeling like, okay, I have to keep checking, like just less body surveillance, less worry about it. You know, do your hair, do your makeup, do your beauty routine, do whatever makes you feel good and then be done with it. Right, like just don't think about it anymore.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

So sort of turn down the constant like checking and surveillance In terms of what we can do more, I think that we have to get better at when we talk about our bodies, doing it in a more positive way, right, I think everyone's so afraid to sound like they're bragging or like full of themselves, or you know, we never say things that are positive, right. But I think, even if it's not like I love my body, right I mean, even if it's just like I don't know I mean I've always liked my hair right or just just get a little more comfortable, sort of turning up, maybe some positive talk. If we're gonna talk about appearance issues to, um, you know, keep it more positive that's, that's great.

Danielle La Rose:

I will. So turning turning down, turning up you heard it here. First, let's do these things. Thank you so much for being here on the podcast. This was so helpful, so enlightening all the things. So thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you oh, thank you.

Dr. Charlotte Markey:

Thank you for having me.