Canadian Salad
A No-Nonsense Podcast On Culture And Immigration
Canadian Salad
Maple Syrup & Masculinity: A Canadian Power Trip
What do Canadian bosses, chicken legs, and Hofstede’s cultural dimensions have in common? Turns out… a lot.
In this episode of Canadian Salad, Andrea and Hoen dive deep (and hilariously) into Geert Hofstede’s research on Power Distance and Masculinity — two fancy terms that basically explain how societies juggle hierarchy, authority, gender roles, and ambition.
Armed with stats, sarcasm, and the occasional side-eye at capitalism, they explore why Canada scores “low” on power distance but sits smack in the middle for masculinity. From TD Bank anecdotes and workplace “friend bosses,” to youth activism, immigration trends, and the feminist potential of work-from-home, this episode unpacks how polite Canucks handle power, success, and sharing space at the table.
Spoiler: money might be the world’s biggest chicken leg, hierarchy isn’t always evil, and Canada’s cultural vibe may be more complex (and funnier) than we give it credit for.
Tune in for sharp insights, good-natured debate, and plenty of laughs — all with that signature Canadian wink. 🍁🎙️
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Speaker 2:Welcome to Canadian Salad a fun, factual and friendly podcast about culture and integration in Canada.
Speaker 1:I'm one of your hosts. I'm Ho-Hsin Ho from China, currently living in unceded territory of Musqueam, squamish and Tsleil-Waututh Nations. Territory of Musqueam, squamish and Tsleil-Waututh Nations.
Speaker 2:And I'm Andrea McCullough, an immigrant from the United States, broadcasting you from the unceded traditional territory of the Lekwungen people, the Songhees and the Squamish First Nations.
Speaker 1:And you're listening to Canadian Salad.
Speaker 2:All right, welcome back everyone. Okay, we're back. I know we are back. Hello Hoshi.
Speaker 1:I miss everyone. Okay, we're back. I know we are back. Hello, hoshi, I miss everyone. Is everyone missing me?
Speaker 2:Yes, I received so many thoughts about you. Like people didn't communicate in sentences, but I could sense they were wanting to know how you are. They missed you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I sensed that, I sensed that. Yeah, yeah, I definitely sensed it. Yeah, good, they missed you. Yeah, I, I sense that, I sense that. Yeah, yeah, I definitely sense it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good, good, yeah, yes, well, we're, we're gonna talk, men well, I mean yay, men, and kind of women power, men in power and woman, in woman and woman and woman, just a woman, just one little woman.
Speaker 1:You are that woman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but we're going to talk about masculinity. Well, power distance?
Speaker 1:Yeah, not the normal masculinity that we usually talk about. Today we're going to talk about something called cultural dimensions. Okay, which were?
Speaker 2:discovered by this man.
Speaker 1:um a man, yeah a man, again a man, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, dr hostad, you know can I just it's just funny that we're using a man's work for this topic on men. Anyway, I just think it's funny.
Speaker 1:That's all a lot of work actually sidebar a little bit. A lot of like nowadays all science are discovered by men, right even like a lot of like tools in science, even for women, like oncologists.
Speaker 2:Right before a lot of tools that's used on women's body were you know, designed by men, which is not always like the best because they only had the privilege and the position to do it like. If more women had the ability, they probably would and a lot of women did invent and create a lot of tools and resources, but men stole it because women, to them, were a poo-poo magoo-goo yeah, so well, anyway.
Speaker 1:Well, we're gonna talk about, uh, today we're gonna talk about, yes, today we're gonna talk about Dr Hostet's work, cultural dimensions. There's six dimensions, but we're only gonna talk about two.
Speaker 2:Okay, what's a dimension?
Speaker 1:Hoshin Dimension is like so Dr Hostet Think culture can be Kind of summarized and differentiate by six different dimensions. They are like Power, distance, individualism, collectivism. The third is masculinity versus femininity. The fourth is uncertainty, avoidance. The fifth is long-distance orientation versus short-term normative orientation. The last one is indulgence versus restraint. The last one is indulgence versus restraint. So these six dimensions Dr Hostet believes that can capture culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like a universal litmus test or measurement of cultures and how every culture kind of shares this universally but expresses it differently differently.
Speaker 1:And then, yeah, um, he developed kind of scores, his scoring system, to kind of give all six dimensions different numbers based on the number, high and low. You can kind of see whether this culture is very individualistic or very culturalist in a collective, or maybe a culture is very masculine or feminine, which, um, today we're going to talk about the two dimensions, which is power, distance, first, and the second one is masculinity. I've got the power, yeah. Yeah, we talk about this too because we kind of like, even though the all six dimensions are individually kind of measured based on dr hostet, but I personally think that power distance and masculine masculinity kind of like related in some way, sure, especially, in the western world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean yeah who has most of the power. It is men, and that I mean masculinity. Like we are a male-driven society in canada, and we also have high regard for those within authority. So yeah they're kind of winner winner chicken dinners. They're kind of like the same the same chicken leg on the chicken.
Speaker 1:That's not making any sense. Well, how about first get into the definition of what power, distance and masculinity? Is, and so people so people can know like what they are truly decision themselves. Yes, yes, so like power distance first, um the degree to which less powerful member of institutions, organizations accept and expect the power is distributed unequally so basically the distant, like how power is held, whether it might be equally or it might have a big distance in between like let's say, staff versus the boss yes.
Speaker 2:Or certain classes yeah.
Speaker 1:What I said is very like on paper what it says, but you described perfectly it's like in high power distance cultures hierarchy are more accepted. You know like the boss had the ultimate authority. If you say yes you cannot say no and on the contrary, if you like low power distance culture, you know there's like really flattened kind of structure in organizations. You know, the boss is like a friend. You know you work together. You know you very open company. You have very open communications.
Speaker 2:You know you hang out a lot Open door policy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's like low power distance.
Speaker 1:So power distance in many ways is like a way of how hierarchy works, how communication works, how the expectation of subordination works. So that's like power distance. And for masculinity versus femininity it refers to how a society value traits associate with masculinity, like competitiveness, you know, achievement, success, assertiveness kind of thing versus masculine, masculine yeah versus traits often labeled as more like feminine, like cooperation, caring for others, a quality of life.
Speaker 1:You know modesty, you know so. High masculine society usually emphasis on like your success, your performance, your ability to contribute to your ambition and no must. Low masculinity society usually emphasis on like work-life balance, relationships. You know how you uh care for the elder, the youth, the, the community you're in. How is your quality of life kind of thing?
Speaker 1:gotcha, so yeah so like masculinity versus femininity kind of measures um the society's kind of view on success, on gender roles, on conflicts oh, okay, yes, yeah, I would say I definitely am more feminine in that view of culture.
Speaker 2:I mean, you are woman caring for people, the only time I'm more masculine is when I'm playing board games with my husband, and then it's like competitive death, by by losing, like if he wins, like it's the guillotine you're gonna murder?
Speaker 1:yes, yeah absolutely okay, okay now so we know the definition of both and then now we can review. The scorp is on uh hostess model on their website, which the website is free. Everyone can like, go on it, type in a country and all six dimensions.
Speaker 2:They have a number there, so you can compare, it's very good to use. Yeah, it is, it's a good starting tool sorry it's a good starting tool for if, let's say, you're gonna go work with a different company, that actually has or travel, like if you're working with people from all different countries and like one workspace, just to give you a beginning of trying to understand other people. So we'll include the link in our show notes.
Speaker 1:Yes, please. So for power distance, canada's score is 39. Again, 100 is full score, like you know, up to 100, right 39 is, you know, considered low. It's like a low to moderate kind of value, not the lowest but it's, you know, low enough. And that means Canada tends to prefer egalitarian relationships. There's an expectation that leadership is not overly autocratic. People value being consulted and equality in interactions and definitely less kind of rigid formal hierarchy kind of system in place. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:For sure in place. Yeah, for sure, for sure, and I and I would say that go, that speaks a lot to. There's been some instances in canada this summer where the people have, like been very loud about, um, whether it be the, the pipelines, or whether it be some of carney's things that he's passing down through the house and bills that the liberal party is proposing.
Speaker 2:Like people are vocal about it and you see the parties, you see these authorities being like okay, we'll back down it goes to show that that power isn't supremo ultimo, even though it does have supremo ultimo tendencies in a lot of ways, but there is the ability for our voices to influence and shape that authority and that power I agree, yeah, I.
Speaker 1:This kind of reminds me like when I was working in td, my boss I worked in td too well, she's a woman. She's a woman. I think maybe there's some femininity kind of involved, but she always wanted to be my friend.
Speaker 1:She wanted to know what's happening to me you know, after life she wanted my private life. She always asked me oh, how's you like after work, like, oh, how's your boyfriend? Oh, as you go to my place, we'll have like a summer barbecue. We can just like chill and it's just like, girl, you're my boss. I don't know whether I want to cross that, maybe just because I'm from china, which is very high power, distant, kind of index scoring so, like I'm so used to, for sure the boss that you're a boss, you never be a friend.
Speaker 1:You know, at work we kind of you know you're my boss. Whatever you say, I'll try my best, but after work we're not friends. But she was like trying to make a little attempt to be friends and sometimes maybe a bit uncomfortable. Sure, I was like I don't know. I want to tell you and she even asked your instagram let's be friends. Absolutely not, absolutely. My instagram is not not for bosses very naked.
Speaker 1:I feel like she just want to be I. My feeling was like I think she just want to be friends. She'll have a closer relationship because I work very closely with her.
Speaker 1:I think she just want to build a kind of relationship that we're like you know that I'm loyal to her, or maybe loyal to each other, and then we open communication, that we yeah I think it's just like a yeah, because at the end of the day, I don't think she necessarily truly cares how I am doing, because a lot of time, when it comes to like a work thing that I, I will go to her and ask for maybe even for a raise, because she no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, interesting, interesting yeah. Yeah, I've had mostly egalitarian bosses I've had very few. But being born and raised in the North American context. Of course that's not to say there aren't authoritarian bosses, because there are some in corporate settings and all over I had authoritarian bosses too.
Speaker 1:There are some in corporate settings, and I had authoritarian bosses too.
Speaker 2:Yeah so it exists, but typically Canada is more lower in power distance. I don't think.
Speaker 1:I don't think my previous boyfriend is very egalitarian because a lot of things when she said she wanted this done, it has to be done that way. Like there's no, I can't argue with her but, it's just her approach. Wanted to be friends with me, trying to like kind of Flattened Kind of hierarchy structure, yeah, just like. But in reality she's not really valued In my opinion. That much Got you.
Speaker 2:In my opinion Okay.
Speaker 1:So I was like I don't really like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it smells, funny. Yeah, you smell funny girl. Yeah, interesting Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and about masculinity, femininity. So if high score means very masculine culture, low score means male feminine culture. Canada has 52, so literally in the middle, what really?
Speaker 2:yeah, I, so that means we miss canada mr hoff said we need to have some words. I just anyway 50, 50, interesting okay 50, 50.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that means canada is sometimes really balanced. Yeah, you know it's well. 52 is maybe a very tiny little bit of tendency leaning yeah you know, towards, like, competitiveness and achievement, but it's like only two points, I won't. I won't really.
Speaker 2:It was that one sit-in woman prime minister that we had a while ago when they were figuring out who the next prime minister was, and she sat in the chair until they put another man in there. I think that's the two percent that's, that's that's what brings us over, right?
Speaker 1:no, I don't know, I don't know people like value, performance and success yes, definitely, but also like there's enough room for like cooperation and work-life balance. To be honest, I do think it's kind of true From my perspective. People really care about work-life balance here, especially in Vancouver.
Speaker 2:I don't know about Toronto.
Speaker 1:Because a lot of people from Toronto who work in Toronto and move to Vancouver always say, oh, Vancouver is really chill. People always take their time.
Speaker 2:Culturally that could be the west coast kind of vibe. Yeah, a bit more than maybe others yeah, I only work here.
Speaker 1:So like I've had this score, speaks my experience in canada, but again, I only worked in vancouver. Maybe in toronto the score would be higher because maybe like more masculine, more like emphasis on success and efficiency and, like you know, like yeah, and assertiveness and competitiveness.
Speaker 2:But here people are really chill they are chill and I will say I think normalizing mental health is becoming more and more of a cultural and or organizational. You do hear more organizations saying you're providing mental health days off. We have mental health awareness week. There's just like a lot more dialogue and discussion about what it is to like if you care for yourself. You actually have a longevity of your staff and your employees within the workplace and valuing that, so I feel like that does make sense, I think. From a woman's perspective, however, I definitely feel like the masculinity is much, much. I feel like we're way more masculine than we are feminine.
Speaker 1:You mean in Canada? In Canada, yeah, I would put it at 75.
Speaker 2:Ooh, wow, okay, and if you identify as a woman and you would love to hear like what you think. So you can just like send us an email. Hello at canadiansaladca. Let us know what you think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we love your perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but that's just me. I don't know, because I just I see the inequalities and I see that you know, we're still not getting the equal pay for men.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's true, that's true. The equality part, yes, yeah, I feel like that is definitely still a man's world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:We're still in a man's world, but I think this dimension, necessarily like masculinity versus femininity, is not a dimension to evaluate the progress of equality, but more more to evaluate how gender role plays in society, sure you know whether it is like more assertive, you know, this culture more celebrate success and achievements and assertiveness, rather than celebrating or prioritizing caring characters or work-life balance or this kind of tenderness of you know, you know, celebrating communities right, I think that's how I see it, then that's how I think that, why we have 52 sure canada, as in general.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's also like a lot of examples how, like power distance and masculinity kind of reflects manifests in other areas, like, for some, for example, education, like teachers and students often have more open relationships in less power distance.
Speaker 2:You know countries like sure like you know, canada, canada, yeah, yeah, students.
Speaker 1:Yeah, students are often encouraged to question, to debate, to critique, which I would say in China, in Japan, for example, that's not a thing.
Speaker 2:No, no, you do not, no, yeah.
Speaker 1:Also in governments and institutions also there are certain ways of how low power distance country kind of works Like democratic system. Obviously low power distance Sure works like democratic system, obviously low power distance sure, and in high power distance country definitely less democratic procedures are in place to protect democracy. Usually there is like a protest welcomed. In low partisan countries, like in canada, yeah, um, and also there's one specific like criteria it's that you also also use to measure power distance. Is actually youth engagement.
Speaker 2:Oh, interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like how.
Speaker 2:Yeah, would you say youth engagement would be more in lower power distance.
Speaker 1:Yeah of low partisan countries usually have also systems or policies in place to encourage youth engagement, maybe welcoming youth to like discuss policy making, or maybe there's like conferences and councils to make sure youth youth are involved. Um, yeah to to guide or to, yeah, advise the government.
Speaker 2:Okay, interesting, I never thought of it that way, but that makes sense because-.
Speaker 1:It makes sense, yeah.
Speaker 2:It does, though, because if, like you mentioned education, if children have this kind of open relationship with their teachers or even parenting styles like parenting styles in the West, are very much more lax, less authoritarian, so that does make sense that youth would have a stronger voice in more low power, distance countries and probably even more feminine, more feminine driven or feminine countries, would you say. Because it's not competitive.
Speaker 2:It's very much collaborative. Like we, as the youth, come together and we share this common vision or desire for change, and so I also agree with you. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think the youth participation for me also is like overlap between power distance and masculinity kind of dimension, because like first youth they don't necessarily can We'll talk about youth you should probably underage, right Like maybe youth also, maybe like 18. You can call yourself youth too too. I guess you can vote, but like it's definitely a form of cooperation, technically they can vote, so it's not necessarily just a power distance kind of dimension yeah, because if just strictly about voting, about encouraging people to vote.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's probably just power dimension, because that's democratic right, but it's asking people that technically can vote, but ask them to input, uh, to collaborate with them, because they are also impacted. It's also about caring what they need, even though they can vote. So a lot of the things that are made they have no power in it, but we want to come, to come because we care yeah this decision that will eventually affect them.
Speaker 1:So I feel like youth participation is is definitely overlap about the masculinity dimension and the power distance dimension. Yes, it's about communication, it's about power structure, but at the same time it's also about caring about collaboration yeah about conflict in many ways.
Speaker 2:So you know, true, true, how to harmoniously put the society together yeah, yeah, yeah, even being open to conflict, that's very, very low power distance, because higher power distance would want to control the narrative. Or even like hold all the power and if you have a conflict it doesn't matter because you're not the one in in power, so whatever they say goes, so just kind of deal.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, interesting yeah yeah, so that's like one dimension. I feel like, oh, this is interesting, we can talk about it. Yeah yeah, no, that is interesting, yeah, yeah and if we use statistics, there's also ways to look in canada.
Speaker 2:Use statistics I know stat queens here. We do love stats. Yeah, they don't lie they really don't, yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's like a 2023. Stats shows that about 39 of managers are women in canada 39, 61 a man yeah that checks out.
Speaker 2:The story checks out yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So even though there's like movement towards equality because 39 is not like a low percentage either, let's you know no, true, true, true, but it's not very high either yeah, yeah we have improvement yeah but we're 11 11 percent gap to the half mark. Right, sure, percent is like, not like huge gap, but it's a gap for sure, so we definitely have more room, absolute room to, to grow. But we also have to admit is that, compared to the world in general, we are definitely towards that.
Speaker 2:Equality leadership and more equal, for sure, for sure I would even say, you see, if, if we can apply well, I don't know if we can apply this now, but like looking at even just the ways in which a lot of protests across canada pro-palestinian protests have been met with heavy policing, violence, ridiculous arrests, the same same with indigenous land offenders, you see this authoritarian reach and arm out of the Canadian government and as much as protests are there, there are some things that I think Canada goes way way very masculine if I may on when it's specific topics that maybe threaten their ideas of power or the narratives they want to hold.
Speaker 2:It's just interesting because there are some protests that are okay and it's like, oh great, yeah, like animal rights, yay. But then when you talk about these very key things yeah, land, I mean because it's colonized or because there's such a a tie to to israel's leadership, like it, just it it's very, very interesting when canada chooses to be more masculine and when she chooses to be a bit more feminine, depending on the topic or the yeah well, because when money's involved, right Something when Capitalism, there you go.
Speaker 2:Capitalism At the end of the day it's money. That is. That is the bridge between.
Speaker 1:That is the bridge. That's it, that's it Boom. Money is the only thing we're done. We solved all the problems of the world.
Speaker 2:You're welcome, ladies and gentlemen, have a good night. We're not done.
Speaker 1:I mean all the world Problem of the world today is money. Yeah, I feel like the only way to kind of rally people or rally the government to be on top. And money is always a denominator.
Speaker 2:Yeah, money is always the denominator of all these hoarding that money, keeping that money not equally, distributing it almost in a masculine way, making money competitive, because I don't think there's anything wrong with success, because it's success.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, what's wrong, yeah?
Speaker 2:money's great. Money's great, though, when it is shared, when it is accessible for everyone and there's no particular few groups of people, the one percent controlling all the money. Like that's when money is awful, when people are just trying to control it and keep it away from other people, or that that becomes like their motivation for making terrible decisions.
Speaker 1:Right, but I think, like capitalism, is also a product of patriarchy. Right, and patriarchy is, of course, is like a product of masculinity, which masculinity, in many ways, even in the culture dimension, says masculinity is a dimension. You know that emphasis on success, on prestige, on status, on material wealth, yeah, and then that is which is exactly what capitalism is also about.
Speaker 1:It's about having more money, having more prestige, having more status, having more material wealth right, For sure so like, if a society is very masculine, it's always going to be pro capitalism yeah, yeah, capitalism, that's always going to be it yeah, even though and and that's where I feel like the dimension score of masculinity can only 52, I feel like, like, and that if we talk about capitalism, I don't think Canada is only 52. I think it'd be higher.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because Canada still is very capitalist, would you say, 75 is high as me.
Speaker 1:I won't say 75 because there's also other things to consider about modernity, right, about gender roles. I feel like Canada maybe in general slightly better. Like I said, there's 11 percent gap to equality, but again, 11 is not a huge but definitely room to improve. Also about like cooperation, about, you know, quality of life, about like what life balance, about whether we are conflict avoidant or not avoidant, like assertiveness, so like. There's other things to discuss about this score. It just capital is just one of it. Sure, sure, I will maybe put Canada at least like 65 or like 70 tops.
Speaker 2:Okay, girl, that works, that works, you're allowed.
Speaker 1:But I'm a man, I don't know, I'm a man, I'm a man, I'm a man. Okay, yeah, and I have one more data I want to share. This is a government in Canada released a report in 2023 called Building a Modern 21st Century Workforce, and the report states that 84% of job seekers define success by work-life balance rather than climbing the ladder. 84% here shows, I think it explains why Canada have a generally lower masculinity score.
Speaker 1:Again 84% of people think success is a balance, not necessarily about material wealth, not about being quote-unquote, this conventional success like being the big boss.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, that's high. Yeah, that's why, well, we are a bit feminine society. Yeah, exactly, exactly, it's true. And I've heard people say there's no such thing as work-life balance and I mean, and I think those, I think there's a, there's a point to that, but I think it's mostly because people are just exhausted and they try, but it can be hard to want that or believe that, when maybe the structure doesn't provide that.
Speaker 1:But I think his report is 2023. Before 2023 was a pandemic where working from home becomes such a topic, topic right. I feel like this kind of remote work or hybrid work model guys kind of pushes forward this idea of work-life balance even more, that you can have both. You can work your own home where your schedule is more flexible yeah, you know. So I think that gives people oh God, that actually can be achieved. So then now people can actually see happening. That's how we strive for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's a good point. That's a good point. You forget how much COVID impacted so much and I feel like that's an element in and of its own of like just the ways in which it maybe created more diverse opportunities for employment.
Speaker 1:it's not so tradition where you're like going to the office check out, you know um, so interesting, yeah, yeah, I know I know you are, you're amazing anyway. So that's the two dimensions I kind of want to discuss, yeah, and of course I we kind of discuss the whole time about the relationship, about them too, even though they are discussed individually in hostess kind of paper and but we definitely see how they can be intermingled. And also a lot of high power, distant society also have high masculinity scores, like Japan or Mexico or China you know, and in countries with low power distance also have low masculinity scores, like Sweden and the Netherlands.
Speaker 1:So there is some sort of correlation but it's not really.
Speaker 2:I don't think it can be contested because there's also culture that are opposite one high, really low for sure for sure and and we're not saying that, oh well, if you're from norway, you're this, right, like that's not to say that, like, oh, this culture is only this. It is to say, though, that there are tendencies that are stronger, maybe, in this area, like masculinity than femininity so no culture is just one way only, but it's a starting point to help you understand the overall culture of a country or a region or a place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think, like in canada, though it's like a specific. I personally think this two dimension to measure, measure Canada's kind of company is also interesting because, think about it, if you are a company in Canada, you want your candidate to be very successful, like to be very good in what they do yes to be very assertive in their decision making, to be very competitive and have great achievements in what they do. So in many ways they're masculine yes, right and have great achievements in what they do. So in many ways they're masculine.
Speaker 2:Yes, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:But then you also want them to be able to include the staff in discussion. That means you want them to be also, you want them to be open and communicative to everyone, which also is generally a low power distance. So I feel like in Canada we kind of measure someone a good at least employee specifically as someone that has low public distance but high masculine score. I definitely see that. Would you say so?
Speaker 2:I see, yeah, I see that I think I don't know that I would choose a more higher masculine style of employment if I had staff. I would want someone who was collaborative. I wouldn't want someone who just made a decision because they felt like they could make the decision. I guess I'm not as authoritarian in that way. I would want to have like, hey, let's chat about this. Or I'd want them to get their work done and be efficient, but I wouldn't create a competitive nature or even the idea of success. You know that's a whole nother loaded term that I don't necessarily agree with, because what is success and who's mind and who's defining it? You know, for me success is going to be different than maybe for you.
Speaker 1:and then even for the CEO at TD Bank.
Speaker 2:So it's yeah. So I don't know that like for me, but do see canada being more valuing that masculine what did you say? Masculine tendencies with a feminine ability? Oh, okay maybe like they're able to be collaborative they're able to do this, but they typically gravitate towards being like high achievement, you achievement, you know. Assertive.
Speaker 1:So they can switch.
Speaker 2:They can switch both, so yeah, Maybe a bit of a hybrid, Maybe a bit of you know A bit hybrid. Yeah, get their toes here and there.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I mean, I can see that, but I would just, I personally capitalist society which we are in, I feel like there is definitely always tension between like equality focused ideas, of course, and and economic competitiveness yeah, of course, and of course like equality focused ideas, definitely more low power, distance and economic competitiveness.
Speaker 2:Definitely definitely more masculine so it always is the tension between them, um, and that's where I think the relationship between power, distance and kind of masculinity, kind of you know push and pull yeah, they're kind of brothers, they like they like hit each other for a while because they're, you know, getting out their whatever's, and then they're like hey, bruh, you want some ice cream, you know true, you know what, you're not wrong yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Lastly, the last thing I want to talk about trends. Now that we know what it is, what will? Would it be? Oh you?
Speaker 2:know, yeah, like this, like a crystal ball of trends.
Speaker 1:What will it be for canada's? You know, power, distance and masculinity kind of score. We talk about covid, like the remote work, happy work kind of model, slowly, you know, pushing canada towards a more feminine society because now people actually sees how work-life balance, can you know fruition and how working from home actually having more flexible hours, we define work for them, we define success, even competitiveness, for a lot of people. So that's one and second multiculturalism and immigration for Canada. We all know Canada is an immigrant country and based on many of our previous episodes we know that a lot of immigrants come from Asia, like South Asians and East Asians all many of previous episodes we can. We know that a lot of immigrants come from asia, like south asians and east asians, which typically are more cultures with higher power distance and more masculine. Yes, there's also kind of impact canada's power distance dimension. In the long run, if this trend continue, immigration trend continues, our workplace gonna be more and more immigrant led.
Speaker 2:That means our work workforce is gonna be more and more probably more comfortable with higher power distance yeah um, you know, scores or even more masculine ways of working my one little kickback to that is that some immigrants who move here from south asian countries east asian yeah, when they come here, they're coming here to maybe move away from us true patriot like I know.
Speaker 2:I know off the top of my head. I knew about three or four east asian people who came to Canada to get out of under a very high masculinity, high power, distance setting, because they just they did, they couldn't, and and these are all women that I'm thinking about, I think, women for specifically, I agree, cause they have been like you know.
Speaker 1:they're definitely at those kind of high power, distance and more masculine culture. I think they are definitely the victim of a lot of it and I think, coming to canada, definitely, I can see why they would want the opposite more. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2:But then, like we have a neighbor, like actually our landlord, his best friend, they're from india and they are probably in their 70s, going towards 80s, so very traditional to the point where he had he, it's required that his wife walks behind him and not beside him, and so you will see them walking down the street and he's in front and she's just trailing in the back and part of me is just like, oh, but at the same time that culturally it is a higher masculinity culture, it just is masculinity culture.
Speaker 2:It, it, just, it just is.
Speaker 1:And when we do immigrate, we immigrate with the things that we are used to or the traditions that we grew up with. So true, true. So that's there's see, there's push and pull. But there's another trend, I think. I think one good to discuss, like in the long run, about multiculturalism, immigration. At the end of the day, no matter how, what kind of culture you know, immigrant brings into influence you know this current society in canada this idea of multiculturalism, or celebrating everyone, it is an egalitarian approach. It is, at a long run, helping us to build this idea that everyone is valued. We're all here to collaborate, to respect all of us. So I feel like, and then it's also going to push our culture to be more feminine, in a way of celebrating multiculturalism.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:This is how I like to believe.
Speaker 1:Yes absolutely and, as I also mentioned earlier before, canada actually really care, like all have policies in place to to encourage youth participation. I think this trend, this more and more youth participate, means this society more and more gonna have a lower power distance and definitely more feminine, because, again, it's about taking care of the next generation. It's about collaboration. At the same time also flatten you, know authority and know who subordination right. So the next generation is about collaboration. At the same time, also flatten you know authority and know who's a body, nation, right. So youth participation will help us to be less power distance and more feminine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go youth. Go Lincoln, go my son, go all you kids out there like 12 and 21 and 35. All you kids, but anyway. So that's kind of the trend I want to discuss. That's cool, that's really, really cool, and 21 and 35, all you kids, but anyway.
Speaker 1:So that's kind of the trend I want to discuss that's cool, that's really really cool.
Speaker 2:I think there's hope for Canada.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there is what I want, or prepare for everyone for this episode today yeah, thank you, hoshin, I mean it's good, you're so welcome it is good I taught a cultural, cultural privilege in the workplace and we we did three specific power dimensions with this group of managers from all over the city and they were all really interested because they were just like I've never considered. Having words around culture and how we function was really, really impactful For people to sit there and say really we're much more masculine, like I wouldn't have thought that.
Speaker 2:Or really we're much more, you know, power distance is actually low, huh like sometimes when you have a framework like Hofstede, you know or you have someone who's got like a kind of a theory to help us understand, it can really help conceptualize or help us understand our own selves better, so we can understand other people better, which is.
Speaker 2:Canadian salad which is you and me. Which is exactly why it's important to have these conversations, because I do believe that the more we understand each other or ourselves and we look at the good, the bad, the ugly, with grace and with acceptance, then we can do that with other people. But until we're without looking at ourselves and who we are, we have no way of knowing how to look at other people gracefully or how, or even looking at masculine cultures through a different lens, rather than just judging them or being like, well, you know off with their heads, you know, kind of a thing.
Speaker 1:So anyway, I absolutely agree. Yes, yeah, thank you, angie, for that input well, thank you, hoshin, for preparing this.
Speaker 2:We are going. I'm really excited about this pop quiz, if you yes, because if you're new to us, you will not know that we do a canadian salad pop quiz at the end of every episode. Yes, and the questions are related to the topic and Hoshin doesn't know my question, I don't know his question. So, dramate, dramati, flair de la flemme, that is what we are going for. So it's exciting. Hoshin, can I go first?
Speaker 1:You can go first, obviously.
Speaker 2:Okay, yay, I am so excited. Okay, so you know how, in more patriarchy cultures, if a woman gets married, she takes on the husband's last name, but in more like matriarchy cultures, like the children will take on the mother's name. Okay, like matriarchy cultures like the children will take on the mother's name. Okay. So under that context, which type of society globally or let me see how to phrase this Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:Globally are societies more traditionally patrilineal which is the you know you take on yeah.
Speaker 2:Or are they more matrilineal?
Speaker 1:In the world generally.
Speaker 2:Like, yes, Like of all the countries on the planet.
Speaker 1:I mean I was thinking more geography, Like usually it's the kids takes the father's name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Okay, is that your final answer?
Speaker 1:I feel like it's a trick question because it's so obvious.
Speaker 2:What Ding ding you?
Speaker 1:won yes.
Speaker 2:So there was a study out of Vanderbilt University in 2019. Globally, 590 societies were known to be traditionally patrilineal, 160 were recognized as matrilineal and in between. In between, meaning that descent is acknowledged through both parents father and mother at 362 societies okay even that bilateral, so that in between kind of that, that push and pull of, you know, masculinity, femininity, um, actually 362 societies reflected that, so oh, right.
Speaker 1:So very good to know right. Fascinating I know we love. Thank you for sharing you're welcome.
Speaker 2:Good job, gold star thank you.
Speaker 1:I mean thank you I. For me it's a very easy question because I know it.
Speaker 2:It's like so easy.
Speaker 1:I mean common sense.
Speaker 2:I know, but you never know too. You never know.
Speaker 1:You never know. True, true, true, I don't know. My question is so much more simpler to phrase, thank you. So we talked about masculinity, about this sense, and my question is about masculinity. Okay, well, you know, I'm from China, you're from US, we live in Canada. So, in between the three countries, can you rank them from high to low on masculinity score?
Speaker 2:Ooh, okay, I'm going to say US has the highest masculinity, then China, then Canada.
Speaker 1:Final answer yes, sorry, almost so close. It's China first. Okay, china is only four points higher. China is 66.
Speaker 2:Just four points higher than the US.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's 62, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I was really close, you were very close.
Speaker 1:Oh goodness, Very fascinating. In Canada, as I mentioned, it's 10 points lower than the US, it's 52.
Speaker 2:Well, look at us being in Canada, canadians, and enjoying our feminine culture.
Speaker 1:Yes and our low power distance yeah exactly love, love oh, that's good, that's awesome. Thank you anyway. I think everyone listening. Yes, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yes, I had fun too. You can follow us on tiktok uh, instagram, blue sky and check out our website as well. You can see our mugs are lovely yeah that's right, and please do, though, let us know what you think about canada and masculinity, femininity. You can email us hello at canadiancellaca. All right, without further ado. We love you.
Speaker 1:Have a wonderful week and we'll see you next week yeah, exactly, thanks so much, okay, bye thank you bye, see you next week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, thanks so much. Okay, bye, thank you, bye, bye. Canadian Salad is written and produced in British Columbia, canada, by Hoshin Ho and Andrea McCoy. Theme music is by Navur Avityan from Pixabay.
Speaker 1:This has been a good janklin production.
