Canadian Salad
A No-Nonsense Podcast On Culture And Immigration
Canadian Salad
Culture Is Not A Costume
Culture isn’t a costume 👻
It’s spooky season—but what’s really scary is how cultural appropriation disguised as “just a costume" is still normalized and practiced today.
In this heartfelt Halloween episode, Andrea and Hostion dive into the tangled web between cultural appreciation and appropriation. From haunted houses and dead sailors to Princess Peach and bloody dentists, they share personal stories, cultural insights, and a few laugh-out-loud moments along the way. Learn why empathy and curiosity are your best costume accessories—and how to celebrate Halloween without perpetuating harm.
Because culture isn’t a costume, and play shouldn’t perpetuate pain.
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I like salad.
SPEAKER_01:Do you like salad? Welcome to Canadian Salad, a fun, factual, and friendly podcast about culture and integration in Canada.
SPEAKER_02:I'm one of your hosts, I'm Ho Shen Ho from China, currently living in unceded territory of Muscream Squamage and Senewatu Nations.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm Andrea McCoy, an immigrant from the United States, broadcasting you from the unceded traditional territory of the Matungan people, the Song Lizon inspiring First Nations.
SPEAKER_02:And you're listening to Canadian Salmon. Ooh, spooky season is amazing. It is.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Do you like scary movies or like haunted houses?
SPEAKER_02:Do you like the I remember, I remember my ex loved it. Um, and then this one year he forced me to go to haunted house with him and he kind of killed tripmails. Oh my god, if you love me, you have to go to with me. Oh my god, I know it was kind of emotional. Stupid ultimatum. So I kind of blackmail because he got joy out of me being scared, which I was now that I think of is really like twisted. Like yeah, really twisted. He had so he got so much joy out of it. Dang, and then he just thought I was being dramatic. But then once I went to the haunted house with him, he saw how much I was afraid. He was just okay, I'm so sorry. And then he never asked me to do it again. But then sometimes why don't you take my word for it? You know, I really totally.
SPEAKER_01:Why do I have to experience this trauma? And then for you to be like, oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not a fan. I I don't like uh scary movies. I mean, I will say some of the older black and white kind of Halloween films or kind of the like the birds. I don't know if you've ever seen the birds. It's like an old black and white 1950s, possibly about these crows that attack and peck people's eyes out. It's I mean, it's it's frightening, but like the reality, it's not gonna happen. So I can suspend that dis that belief, you know, that this is real. So, but uh yeah, it's it's coming up on Halloween. Um, we're just a few days away. And uh I thought it would be good to talk about a topic that I feel like so many people are still hazy and confused about the difference between appropriation and appreciation when it comes to Halloween costumes and the holiday itself.
SPEAKER_02:What? You mean I cannot wear a feather headdress?
SPEAKER_01:No, Hoshin, you cannot. We'll just clear the air. Yes, we'll clear the air. No, we can't do it. Nope, nope, no, sir. Uh, but yeah, that's what this episode is about. We're gonna kind of unpack too the kind of the history of where costumes even started in Halloween and kind of that, and then give you some very clear do's and don'ts so that when you are out there looking for a costume, or even after Halloween, if you want to participate in like a masquerade, or if you want to purchase an item from another cultural store, you know, that that you'll have kind of you'll understand the distinction between appropriation and appreciation. So um, that's today's episode. So to start off, and not in the scary, but maybe we'll do like Halloween costumes. Do you, Hoshin, have a memorable Halloween costume? If not, what would be the dream costume that you would want to wear?
SPEAKER_02:Ooh. Ooh. Uh oh, when I was, I remember the first year I was employed by Royal Roads. Okay. Uh, we did have like a Halloween, we did ask uh people to dress up. So I dressed up. I dressed up myself like a dead sailor. A dead sailor, ooh, uh like a sailor costume. Because you know, Kohal used to be a navy. Yes, a naval academy. So I was like, yeah. Yeah, I was like, oh, that would be fair on theme. So I was like dressed as like a dead navy, like a sailor. Well, like we know, sailor hat, a sailor, a sailor top is like a very Japanese sailor top, so a little school girl.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so it wasn't a crop top style.
SPEAKER_02:It's not a crop top situation, no, but it's really tight because I used to be very skinny. Uh so I was giving a giving a little slutty, maybe a slutty dead sailor.
SPEAKER_01:I love it. You know, I mean zombies have to like, you know, get some too.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah. And then my face, I painted my face too, so it was like a full commitment.
SPEAKER_01:Oh wow, that would be that would be yes, yeah. I know.
SPEAKER_02:I have like even like a like a uh I made uh anchor, like a myth paper with like this kind of big plastic chain, like this kind of anchor chain on my neck. I know almost like a full it was a full costume, it was like amazing.
SPEAKER_01:You were committed, you were committed, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I know, I think till today is still my favorite.
SPEAKER_01:Is it? Yeah, yeah. My favorite one year we did Mario characters. So I was Princess Peach, my husband Mark was Mario, and our son Lincoln was Luigi. Um, and I had the blonde wig, I had the crown, I had the princess dress, everything. It was so, so, so fun. And Mark was great because he had a a padded suit for Mario. So we had this like big belly. Yeah, it was really fun. So, yeah. So that was that was the most memorable. And I don't, yeah, I'm not sure what it'll be this year, but it's just it is it's fun to dress up.
SPEAKER_02:It's fun to I know it's fun to dress up, especially both our costumes are not cultural appropriation uh. So that's the fun part about it.
SPEAKER_01:It is that is the fun part. So let's get into the rootiness of Halloween. The rootiness. The rootiness, yeah. So this is from Western University's uh article called Practicing Equity on Halloween. And so they talk about how the origins of Halloween, so it traces back to a holiday, a Celtic festival marking the end of harvest called Sao Somane, I think that's how you pronounce it. Um, where people would wear, yeah, people would wear costumes to confuse wandering spirits. Um and these costumes were made up of animal skins and heads. So, which I can't imagine the smell on people when they were doing this, but whatever.
SPEAKER_02:Like dried and true, true.
SPEAKER_01:They're not just like slaughtering a pig and then like flipping it on their head. Well, that would definitely make a very scary Halloween. Um, but that's the origin. So it was a Celtic festival originating the marking the end of harvest. Okay, so fast forward 500 years later, we get some Christians dominating the space, and costumes later evolved to saints, angels, and devils to quote, avoid being recognized as humans by the ghosts believed to be roaming around during all saints or all souls day. So that that it morphed into this kind of religious thing where, well, there's demons and spirits on the planet are you know roaming this earth. So if we dress up as angels, as you know, saints, or even as devils, we can ward off those evil spirits. So this is yeah, yeah. So this is where never meant to mimic real cultures, it was always this mystical kind of spiritual thing. Yeah. Um, so then all saints day kind of evolved into all hallows day, uh, all hallow, which is Middle English for All Saints Day. Um typically is on November 1st, so that's when this day is. But the night before this day is All Hallows Eve, which evolved into Halloween. It was never meant to mimic real cultures, only to like word off, yeah, like we said earlier, just those spirits. Um, so of course, then North America and Europe, most of the colonizers took off with this holiday and embedded with Christian idealism and and religious thought, dressing up, playing pranks, trick-or-treating has European roots actually. Um, but it was to commemorate the dead, the frightening and the eeriness of the celebration. It was the unknown and the spooky. But then costume making, of course, evolved into cultural borrowing. So it was no longer about this spiritual thing. We we definitely secularized it and made it much like, oh, well, if you're dressing up as a cow or a saint to ward off a spirit, why can't I just dress up as I don't know, nurse? A nurse or even a Chinese warrior. Oh. Right. So so those kinds of things started conflating and started merging together.
SPEAKER_03:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, every holiday has its origins, and I can understand how people, if you're disconnected so far removed from the origin, like it just we talk about this all the time. Culture changes, language changes, like we do, we we evolve and change. Not always for the best.
SPEAKER_02:Not always, yeah. Because I think sometimes you can derail to some other territories that you should not get into, obviously.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:But I think I know we're gonna get into cultural appropriation, so we're gonna, you know, after we get there, I also have some point that I want to share.
SPEAKER_01:For sure, for sure. No, I can't wait to hear it. So, yeah, so then when we think about costumes though, around this holiday, I think many people are just like, oh, I'm just dressing up. Uh it's just, I'm not intending to harm anyone, I'm just dressing up. Um, but the reality is that cultural garments or even regalia, things that people wear traditionally and culturally, they carry history, they carry spiritual or ancestral meaning, and definitely a lot of social weight. And when you wear them without understanding the culture, the context, the people behind it, it's not, it's no longer dressing up and it's no longer play. There was this excellent paper that came out of the University of Montreal back in 2021, where they surveyed white Americans and asked them to rate the appropriateness of a Native American costume worn by white people, black people, and Native American people. They would see an image of someone who was white presenting who was black or who was Native American and asked them to rate if this is appropriate. But I want to capitalize on what the white participants actually found from this research. So many participants, of course, in this research minimized appropriation if they did not feel personally targeted. Because they're again, they're disconnected from it. They haven't, white people have not lived in the margins or under the boots of colonialism or under this kind of oppressive society where they would be an easy target, where they are the minority. So most white participants basically said, I don't feel like this really means anything. I can see it's not appropriate, but it's not a big deal. They kind of minimize that, which demonstrates a lot of power and privilege, shaping the perception of said costume of someone wearing this. Um, those with higher social dominance orientation. So this is a social economic or social term. Um, basically, it's a belief that hierarchies are natural. So it's just natural that we have hierarchy. It's just natural that white people are kind of the superior race or they're the superior kind of people in power, and they it should be like that. And of course, people with that higher kind of belief system um definitely did not see cultural appropriation as harmful at all. Because that makes sense. If you have this position where you've never been in that kind of oppressive, where your culture has been almost stripped of you, where it has been punished, where it has been um isolated and almost eliminated, then you would not see what is happening, someone dressed in a Native American costume being at all inappropriate.
SPEAKER_02:It's contact, it's the contact, the historical and cultural contact that mix it, yeah, whether it's appropriate or not.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And so when you have context. Exactly. And so when you have power, you don't see the harm because you're not the one bearing the weight of it. It's other people. And so you don't perceive it as harm even when it's exists. And so this is where intent is always like this really dangerous thing to say. Well, like that's not the intent. That's not the intent. Well, we've talked about this before, where intent impact is always greater than intent. You know, that's like saying, you know, well, I didn't mean to do that. That doesn't, it doesn't matter what you didn't mean, what happened, the action did something different, and it means something different.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I suddenly remember this video I watched. I think it is this white guy, is a YouTuber, I believe, or TikTok, one of those. I think he was wearing something Latin American, maybe Mexican, Mexico, like traditional clothing. And then he wore that and it goes to he's not Mexican, obviously. He he went to like universities, asked students whether this is cultural population. Of course, most students think this is cultural appropriation, you should not do that. And then he will, and then he actually will go to Mexico and ask Mexicans, like local Mexicans, whether this is cultural appropriation. And then local Mexicans actually loved it. Oh, you uh, this is so so funny. You wear that, it's fun. And then so he thinks people are being dramatic about cultural appropriation, but then and then I read like uh oh then and then actually make me question is it really that? So I actually read an article about it and I realized, you know what? The article, I don't remember who the article who was the article, but it's basically mentioned that it's also about cultural provision, sometimes is also about context in in the states where he was making a film and a video, you know, racism is a thing towards Mexican, especially right now, too. Yes. Um and this is kind of when a culture being so that culture being diminished and the people being discriminated. So anything that is so that you as a white man wearing it as just for funcies, that can trigger a lot of discrimination, kind of invoke these kind of feelings, obviously. But when you bring that to Mexico, it's a different case. They are Mexicans, all of them.
SPEAKER_01:They're the dominant people group, they have you do not evoke the feelings to them.
SPEAKER_02:So for them, it's funcies, like you see it, right? You know, so yeah, it's funcies like we are the predominant race here. You cannot create anything. So whatever you do, I guess you're just trying for fun, and also you are a tourist to them, so that they can see you just having fun trying their culture, and sometimes maybe even appreciating their culture because you are coming into them rather than you being the dominant race, making fun of the minorities, for sure, for sure. So I can see see how the context, how well you are, changes whether you wearing that costume is appreciation or is appropriation.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely, absolutely. If Canada and the United States did not start, uh did not commit genocide and try to eliminate all the Native Americans, all the indigenous Mexican people of Turtle Island, we wouldn't even have this conversation.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, we wouldn't. If they're the predominant race, let's say if they are the one in power, if the First Nation indigenous they're they're one in power, they're the predominant race, they're the most you know culturally dominated in North America. I think if we wear a feather headdress right now, no one's gonna say anything. Because it is about context.
SPEAKER_01:It is about context, absolutely, and location and region and and culture. So I I love that because it does impact lands differently depending on location, history, and privilege and the power a privilege, cultural privilege, that's a huge cultural privilege. It's huge, it's huge, yeah. Yeah. So I want to really break down now the core distinction between appropriation and appreciation. So to appreciate a costume or regalia or even a culture, the these are the distinguishing factors. It's rooted in learning. You're not just there to consume take, you're actually like curious. You and with that curiosity, and once you learn it, you credit that particular culture. So you're not just like saying, like, oh, I'm owning this, this is me. No, this actually originated in 1963 or Japanese folklore. So you're actually crediting that culture and you're also building the relationship. And I think this is a big difference between just the consumer idea and which is a lot of like just even our capitalistic kind of society, we just consume things, we take things and we make them our own rather than actually connecting with the person that this is from and building that relationship and appreciating it. It comes with humility. So you actually would ask for consent before even maybe wearing it or maybe even buying it. I've um been shopping with some friends and and we'll be downtown Victoria, and there will be a local artist, an indigenous artist, and my friends who are still kind of, you know, don't know a lot, um, they're like, is it okay if I wear this? And then the artist is like, of course, you know, like this is I'm out here selling this. I want you. And so it it's almost that asking that permission or that consent and being willing to just say, How would how would you like me to honor this that I am that I have? Um and that has to do with a bit of reciprocity as well, right? So I'm not just taking it, I'm not just taking the earrings, I'm actually buying them, or I'm actually going down to a bookstore or to a cultural center, and I'm actually either purchasing something or I make a donation uh to that organization. It's you're exchanging in some ways the benefits of that culture. You are saying this has value, and by value, I'm going to return that value by paying you or by crediting um your authorship or your culture in this way. That's appreciation.
SPEAKER_02:That is appreciation.
SPEAKER_01:That's appreciation, right? And so then appropriation, we can think, well, it's the exact opposite, but here's some examples. So extracting symbols, dress, or art from another culture for aesthetic or profit. So I can imagine that there's probably a lot of wealthier people who might travel and have that ability to just, oh, I'm just so in love with Chinese culture. I just love Chinese aesthetic. And I just I'm gonna have like a China room in my master suite. And so they buy all this stuff and they just like mr, you know, and they just like it's a China aesthetic, you know, right? You know, and it's just like China, you know, like I've got persona Chinese, exactly. I'm gonna bring all over my Chinese friends and they're gonna love this realm, you know, but it is that kind of like it's but it's just for personal gain, you're not necessarily, you know, appreciating it, or if it's for profit, right? Like you go to another country and you buy a bunch of whatever and then you market as your own.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, cultural stuff, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um, so that's a way. Um, when you strip away the context or the meaning of the item or the idea or the dress that you are wearing, when you actually take it away and say, Oh, I don't even know what that means. I'm just gonna wear it. You know, yeah, just pretty. Yeah, you're reinforcing the power dynamic and you're reinforcing that imbalance because you're not, again, you're not connecting with the context or the origins or the meaning of that, you're not building that relationship. So it is a very like a consumer kind of mindset. And then often, and this happens a lot in North America because mostly dominant groups, specifically Eurocentric groups, it's performed towards marginalized groups. So when we haven't even talked about, like, you know, if you go to a costume store, you might see, you know, like Afro-Jamaican guy. You know, like that's inappropriate, especially from the dominant people group, like the Eurocentric people, because you are you're in in blackface is another thing, right? Because of the context that we're in, because of the history of this nation. So if your costume requires a racial, ethnic, or even a sacred identifier, it's not a costume, it's a caricature. You're you're creating you're creating something that does not exist and that is very much insulting and dehumanizing someone's culture, ethnicity, and background because you've made it your own.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. It's not a costume, yeah. Exactly, especially some of this quote unquote costume, like even the ethnic person themselves don't wear it. Like we don't wear it normally. You have to have a specific station or ceremony to wear it. Then even more reason for you to not wear it, because even uh the original, the people who originate this piece of clothing doesn't wear it in in normal settings, and you should never touch it.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:I think that is also a rule of thumb there to not what it is not to wear.
SPEAKER_01:Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I also want to get back to the appreciation part. I just I just don't remember a story when I was in um last time I was in Mexico, actually in Yucatan, when uh Yucatan, and I was in like a beach town, and I saw a little uh stall, a younger woman and older woman, and they have like little uh little container full of just like um like pearls and no one knows because they're all on uniform you're not uniform sized, okay. And then they're really pretty. And then I also saw them wearing this kind of black and white pearl necklace, it's really pretty. So just like, oh my god, this is repeated. Can I have one? And then they just pointed to that container. Oh yeah, you have to pick, you can pick the pearls, and then we can make it one. But I thought the black ones were black pearl, but no, they were just like uh granite. Oh, it's just yeah, they just they put granite and pearl nitrous together, and they're telling me all these traditions they have actually because they put granite in it because they see grant granite is the hardest stone there, and they see it as a stone of protection. So a lot of local in that area at least, they'll put granite into their accessories to as a symbol of protection, and you know, we're off scary spirits in some sense. I thought that's really cute. And then also had this conversation with them about like granite, about the stones, but blah and pearls. And then they were like, and then they tell me all of this, and then they also said usually when they make a accessory and with granite, they actually do a little ceremony. I burn a little, I forgot what kind of thing it is. So actually did it for me. They did that ceremony for me. I I asked whether I can film because it's this yeah, I never bought a piece of jewelry. Yeah, I never bought a piece of jewelry, and then people make do a little ceremony for me.
SPEAKER_00:Totally, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and then I this is still my one of my favorite jewelry to wear. Wow. It is for me, it's this cultural meaning of it, also the kindness that you show me about the patient is showing me, explaining all that, and and also knowing that, you know, for them this is a protection, a charm for them. Yeah, and I feel like there's it always made me realize, you know, there's a way to appreciate other cultures and and be reminded of that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure. That's beautiful, and then you can tell the story just like you just did now, or and anyone sees it, you're like, Well, let me tell you the story behind this, you know. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And then tell you, you know, then then they also know that you know they see granite as a protecting protective stone. That's really cool. So share that, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. And that's what makes I think that's you're connecting with the culture and the people. And I think that is very much um a beautiful story of like appreciation. Um, because the the exact opposite would be like, hey, can I have one of those? Great, thanks. And then you just walk away. You don't sit there and listen. So pretty. Look at this. Thank you. Can you take my picture? You know, and you just walk off. You don't ever give them the time of day, or then when you wear it, they're like, Oh, I know, I just got in Mexico.
unknown:I don't love you, I do.
SPEAKER_01:Come on. I think it's yeah, I think it's very, very important that power, privilege, and perception really ties into how we see cultural regalia or items or you know, any anything that that represents a culture and tradition. That that research paper from Montreal, it's interesting because people from dominant groups are more likely to justify appropriation by emphasizing, of course, the intention. And people, though, that had stronger empathy, because there were white people in this research group that had stronger empathy and lower social dominance perceptions of hierarchy, they more readily saw the cultural appropriation and they said that that's wrong. That's not okay. So if you had a higher empathy, if you had a imagination or even a curiosity of like what was being shown to you, you actually had a a better perception of what appreciation and appropriation would be. Empathy is a huge component of like actually seeing our rightly and allowing our perceptions to understand our power and our privilege. Which I thought was beautiful because I think empathy is a powerful tool. It is a very powerful tool. It is. And and because there's curiosity, but then there's empathy. It's almost like trying to put yourself in that person's shoes and say, let's take a minute and step back and say, Would I like to do that? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I think colonialism and even within capitalism, if we want to do our isms in in Canada, you know, like colonial, it erases this nuance. It it erases it erases the the in-between and all the complex layers of cultures and dynamics. And because we just see it as like, oh, it's just Mexican or oh, it's just Chinese, or oh, it's just indigenous, we don't necessarily come at it from a perspective of curiosity. So this is where I just want to like folk, here's some examples. Like, just if people need toolkits, if you still don't have your Halloween costume, I just want to give you a little uh a checklist so that I pause before you dress, if you will. Okay. Some examples would be like indigenous regalia, so sacred symbols used as party wear, uh, black hairstyles, afro wigs on non-black people, which will reduce identity to novelty, creating this, like, oh look, I'm a you know, whatever. A geisha, a gypsy or an Arab chic costumes. Um, so these are rooted in stereotypes and orientalism, uh really just this kind of like uh I don't know, this ornamenting of other cultures and and um making them out of no, just it's kind of like this petness. It's kind of like, I don't know, it's like, oh my pet. Oh, look, I've got my geisha costume on. It's just so like pristine. I don't know. Disability or mental illness costumes, they are out there, which mocks people's actual lived experiences. Oh, true, true, true, true, right? Yeah, in contrast, there are a billion alternatives, pop culture icons. You can do a mythical being, like you know, a dragon or you know, uh what do you call that? It's like half human, half horse.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, a man, man, manatory.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, manatory. Yeah, yeah. I think those are really cool. Good job. Good job.
SPEAKER_02:I know that I don't know why you know that yeah, or a personal expression, not linked to real culture. But there's also certain things, for example, I'm thinking about dressing up as Harry Potter, but I sometimes also have to understand there's cultural relationships. Like, for example, like Harry Potter is linked to J.K. Rowland, who is a transphobic icon in some sense. That's transphobic. Yes, like yeah, I mean, technically, you know, it's not about cultural appropriation if you're dressing up as Harry Potter, but there is context, yeah, maybe the relationship it has. If a trans friend special or you care about if you're not transphobic, I guess maybe not Harry Potter.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's such a good point. That's such a good point. Maybe if you want to go into the wizardry, you know, maybe pull someone from I don't know, Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings. I don't know. There, like there's alternatives. That's you know what I mean? Like when people are like, oh, I can't use this word or do this costume anymore, and it's like, yeah, you can't. There's a billion other options. So choose one of the billion other options.
SPEAKER_03:I agree.
SPEAKER_01:Um, yeah, so I think these are just some questions you can ask yourself before you buy a costume or even consider, you know, purchasing something from a cultural organization. So am I representing a real culture, race, or religion? Would someone from that culture find this harmful or disrespectful? Am I contributing to or dismantling stereotypes? So am I contributing to the stereotype or am I actually dismantling it? Would I wear this costume in front of people from that culture and feel proud? I love that question because I think it really forces you to think about the context of where you would be wearing this and would people actually appreciate it, like you know, or would they be offended by it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, again, the example I give would whether you're wearing Mexico or wearing the United States. Exactly. That changes it.
SPEAKER_01:It does change it. It does. And if someone calls me out, am I prepared to listen and learn? Learn and not defend. Right. So I think these are I hope that helps people. I think that it's really, really good to just ask ourselves those questions to pause and to think about because let's face it, our culture, or at least our what has been created of Canada has harmed people for a really long time. And not just indigenous people, but black people, Afro-Caribbean people, Chinese people, Japanese people. There's a lot of people that have been harmed in this culture and space.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:And we're at a phase now where we're keeping those louder voices and those dominant narratives accountable and saying not anymore. And that's the kickback. Like we're not doing we're all we're doing is just saying, like, this used to be okay. And it's not okay. It was okay only because you didn't perceive how it impacted other people.
SPEAKER_03:I agree.
SPEAKER_01:And just because you can't perceive it doesn't mean it doesn't actually have the impact that it does.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So just to reflect on uh accountability, I think true change requires this a collective kind of conversations like what we're doing now.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And accountability that when you do see someone wearing that, you're like, hey, you know, that's that's not appropriate. I think there was an article where someone was denied, or no, uh, there was a fire, a fire department that had a Halloween party and a four men dressed in the KKK and no one said anything. And when there's no accountability, it just allows and gives permission for that narrative and that representation to continue.
SPEAKER_02:I know the yeah, I mean, everyone else got outraged after the photo would leak online, obviously. And then the rest of the people count, you know, keep them accountable. Yeah. But then the people who are in it and all the whole the whole fire department did not exactly just for fun. It's like no there's nothing fun about killing and racial discrimination. Like literally, that costume will present a racial discrimination. So that is a big no no. There's there's no debate there.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly, exactly. And if that that the people in attendance were to be collectively like, no, you can't come in here with that costume, that's inappropriate. We would have had a different story. We maybe wouldn't have a new story, you know, because because because people took action, and it's not about guilt. This isn't about guilt, this is about actually understanding, having empathy, having curiosity, and understanding context. The second thing is we don't want to just cancel people who I think cancel culture is such a thing. Um, and and I understand when like you need to say no, you're done. Their platform is done. Um because what you're saying is is harmful. I think there is a time and a place for that, but I think majority of people need to have a conversation before you cancel them out, before you just like, you know, you're terrible, I hate you, you're mean. Have that conversation before and and see if that person is willing to even have that conversation and engage with you and have a discussion on, oh, why do you see it that way? Um, because I think if we have that conversation, maybe we would be able to bring more people into seeing and recreating Halloween as being something that can be fun instead of harmful.
SPEAKER_02:I love that. Being fun.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Costumes can be creative without causing harm, and cultural mindfulness means listening before dressing. And the last thing I just want to point out is that culture isn't a costume, and play shouldn't perpetuate pain.
SPEAKER_02:Ooh, I love that.
SPEAKER_01:P right, pain, play should not perpetuate pain. We shouldn't be causing pain with how we play. And if we are, we should take a step back and say, how can I do it differently?
SPEAKER_02:Yes. And I also want to like mention one Halloween trend that in Japan, I think, would be a really good thing to add here. Uh now, like most recent years, Japan had this trend of dressing up during Halloween, dressing up as everyday people.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yes, it's like this cultural phenomenon.
SPEAKER_02:I love it. Yeah, everyone just says, Oh, I'm dressing up as like a tire housewife, or like they dress up as every something every day, or like uh um a pastor that's walking home, you know, like they dress up. It's so great. It's okay.
SPEAKER_01:You can look at that too and see the costumes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. People that I think that will be the best. It's funny everyday people. Everyday people, you know, we don't have to be anything, you know, there's no specific culture involved, no one being mocked or potentially or potentially being mocked, I should say. Yeah. Um, you know, why not do that?
SPEAKER_01:And it's so it's so easy, and and we are human beings, we're creative. Why are we limiting ourselves by just you know, reducing our ability to create to something that's gonna harm someone?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, why do we want to do something that potentially, you know, exactly if you think this is but potential that someone might get upset about this and don't do it? There's many other options out there, many other options, right?
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. So, yeah. Do you have any other reflections, Hoshan, before we jump to our pop quiz?
SPEAKER_02:No, that's what I'm all gonna say. Yeah, I think costume can be fun. I love costume, but I think uh we don't have to do any of the things that can potentially hurt anyone. Like I said, there's many other options, you know, use your creativity, yeah, and most importantly, use your empathy, um, then you will always gonna make the right decision.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Well said, Yay! So happy Halloween, happy Halloween Halloween Eve, or yeah. Do you know what we're gonna wear? No, my son is still hemming and hawing about what he wants to do. I'd like to do a family theme, so I'm trying to see, like, oh, if he wants to be a rock or a cat, you know, maybe all of us can be rocks and cats. I don't know. We'll see.
SPEAKER_02:It would be so funny. It would be funny, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So do you know what you're gonna be?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm um I'm a bloody dentist.
SPEAKER_01:A bloody dentist.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Because uh I have to go to Taiwan, because I'm gonna be in Taiwan for pride, and then I'm gonna see my ball and family, and they have a theme that uh their theme is uh anything uh in a hospital.
SPEAKER_01:Ooh, oh dang. That's gonna be some take some pics.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm gonna be a bloody dentist and thank you for being a doctor and nurses. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you were a dead sailor, so I feel like you'll be able to pull it off pretty well. I love it. Yeah, so yes. Awesome. Well, Canadian seller pop quiz. Um, if you're new to us, uh thank you for listening. Uh, we end every episode with a pop quiz where we quiz each other on a question related to the topic of this episode. Hoshin, would you like to go first?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, let's hope we don't have the same.
SPEAKER_01:I hope we don't. This happens sometimes.
SPEAKER_02:Well, Halloween's almost here, obviously.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, obviously.
SPEAKER_02:Um what is the top search, Google search in Canada of a cost uh the most the top search of costume?
SPEAKER_01:Okay, for this year.
SPEAKER_02:This year.
SPEAKER_01:This year, okay, good, because I have last year. Okay, for this year. Ooh, is it Donald Trump? No, I don't know. I mean we do. No, I mean mocking him for sure, but not uh yeah, yeah. Okay, uh can I do another guess? Yeah, do another guess.
SPEAKER_02:I don't want to end the pop culture reference. It's a pop.
SPEAKER_01:Pop culture. Is it K-pop Demon Hunter?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, they is. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02:Really? You are right. I can't believe it. Oh my god, good job.
SPEAKER_01:Oh wow. I just know that that movie, I haven't seen it yet. I I want to, but I know it's just so popular. I was like, okay, popular pop culture is a very popular population. It's a top search. Interesting. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Kebatima Hunter is the top of this year's trending Google search for Halloween costume.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. Okay, wow, okay.
SPEAKER_02:And this article just published 20 hours ago.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, wow. That's now Toronto. Yeah. Okay. So it's quite recent.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that would be. That would be. Well, we'll include the link into our website show notes. Um, you can check it out. Okay, so my question to you is, Hoshan, for last year, what was Canada's top popular costume for last year across Canada?
SPEAKER_02:Uh, is it also a pop culture reference?
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Last year, what is the most popular last year? I know. Clear those cobwebs away. Oh my god, I don't remember last year. That's what pop culture usually is. You know, every year just like I know, it changes, right? Wicked.
SPEAKER_01:Wicked. Is that your final answer?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I guess it's not. But I it's not wicked. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that's your final answer. It was the Minions. The what? Minions. Yep. Minions were the top costume last year nationally. Um, it was ranking number one in Ontario, PEI in Saskatchewan. Um, this is at a CTV news article uh from last year. But yes, Minion was the most popular costume search for 2024. Again, an emphasis on how culture just shifts and it changes and things are, you know, they they just we you just never know what like next year's might be like, I don't know, it might be boogers. There might be like a booger movie or a booger movement. Right now in Portland, it's the frog movement, like people with inflatable frog suits, you know, resisting ice. So there just might be something different. It it I don't know. You just wait and see. So in the meantime, do check us out. We are on socials. Um, we're on Instagram, Facebook, no, Instagram, TikTok, and Blue Sky.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we're not on Facebook.
SPEAKER_01:We're not on Facebook. No, we're not. The dying social media platform. Um, but yeah, check us out, check us on our website, and leave us a note. Let us know. Send a pic of your favorite Halloween costume or of how you're dressing up at hello at CanadianSala.ca. That's our email address. So you can send that to us.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, please.
SPEAKER_01:And we'll try to post pictures of our costumes on our socials. Maybe we should just I don't know about that. No, I was trying. A bloody dentist. We'll try not to make it too scary. So but anyway, thanks for joining us. Have a wonderful week, and we will talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, talk to you soon. Bye.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, bye.
SPEAKER_02:Bye.
SPEAKER_01:This has been the good Janklin production.
