Canadian Salad
A No-Nonsense Podcast On Culture And Immigration
Canadian Salad
Beyond the Poppies: Lisa Wallace on Race, Representation, and Remembrance
This Remembrance Day, Canadian Salad shares a powerful conversation with Lisa Wallace, a former member of the Royal Canadian Navy, veteran, and current Royal Roads University student. Lisa opens up about her experiences as a Black woman in Canada’s Armed Forces, her reflections on the recent CAF apology for systemic racism, and what true remembrance looks like when we include every person who served.
Host Andrea and Lisa explore how representation, respect, and collective memory can reshape how Canadians honour those who sacrificed for the country — especially those whose names have been forgotten.
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SPEAKER_01:Welcome to Canadian Saladin, a fun, factual, and friendly podcast about culture and integration in Canada.
SPEAKER_00:I'm one of your hosts, I'm Ho Chen Hummel from China. Currently living in unceded territory of Muscovans want to mention the Watchwin Nations.
SPEAKER_01:And I'm Andrea McCauley, an immigrant from the United States, broadcasting you from the unceded traditional territory of the Watungan people, the Song Let's Final First Nations.
SPEAKER_00:And you're listening to Canadian Challenge.
SPEAKER_01:Hello everyone. Welcome back another Tuesday, another Canadian salad episode. And I am here flying solo because Hoshan is seeing the world. Whatovs? Um I am with a good friend, a Canadian salad board member, and a just a very wonderful person, Lisa Wallace. Hi, Lisa. Hello. Hi, it's good to have you on the show. I'm really happy to have you today. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. I invited Lisa because National Remembrance Day. I think sometimes, often within the forces, there has been a lot of momentum to remember a particular type of veteran or a particular group of people that have served. When the reality is so many other people, people from indigenous communities, people who are black or Asian, have long been forgotten, or at least this day of remembrance can land very differently. And so that's why I invited Lisa on the show to share her experience, what her story is as someone who has served. Lisa, could you please maybe give our audience a few fun facts about yourself? Or if you were to meet someone on the street, how would you introduce yourself?
SPEAKER_02:My name is Lisa Wallace, and I am from originally Toronto, Ontario. I was born there. I lived there for over 30 some odd years before I joined the military full-time. I was a reservist prior to that and had some service before that. I am currently studying. I am a student at Royal Roads University. I have been a student at Royal Roads University for some time since releasing from the military. I keep taking programs. So I've got my Bachelor's of Arts in Professional Communication. And currently I'm doing my master's of arts in tourism management.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. Yeah, that's exciting. And you'll be done soon, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yes. And then I plan on taking another master's after.
SPEAKER_01:Amazing. Amazing. Thank you for that and for sharing that. Lisa, what military forces were you a part of?
SPEAKER_02:Military history is a little comp not complex, but varied. But when I joined in my late 30s, I joined the Navy and I was in the Navy until I released. But when you're in the Navy, depending on your trade, you can be posted anywhere. You could be posted on an Air Force base, you can be posted on an Army base, especially if you are what they call a purple trade.
SPEAKER_01:If you're an immigrant to Canada like I am, or if you have never served in the military and don't know what a purple trade is, don't worry. I'm gonna explain it. Purple trades are occupations and careers that aren't strongly linked to solely one of Canada's military branches, the Navy, Army, and Air Force. In the 1980s, the Canadian forces assigned members to three specific environments, sea, land, and air. The assignment was based on an individual skill or trade. Take for example a pilot. Pilots would be assigned to Air or the Air Force. Each military branch has a color. The Army is red, the Navy is dark blue, and the Air Force is light blue. Combine all the colors and you get purple. Purple trades can be applied to any of the three armed forces and can include logistics, medicine, justice, military police, administration, or even a chaplain.
SPEAKER_02:Which I was initially until I changed trades. Prior to that, though, I did some service when I was in high school as a high school co-op, which is something that they did. You could do get two credits and be in the military and play military for a bit.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And if you pass your credits, you could stay, and that's what I did. But then I ended up releasing shortly after due to unfair treatment. The reason why I decided to join back up again is it's because there were some aspects of it that spoke to me. And so I was a little bit older and I thought that I'd be able to handle it after.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. Yeah. What inspired the initial joining of the Canadian Armed Forces? What was there a family member? Was it something that was expected of you, or was there a curiosity that you felt drawn to about participating?
SPEAKER_02:Actually, I only realized after I joined that I did have a family member that was a part of the Royal Air Force, which is the British Air Force, and because they were part of a Commonwealth country, that if you're part of a Commonwealth country, you serve under the crown. But I didn't know that until after I joined. The reason why I was interested initially is because when I was in elementary school, I remember the Lieutenant Governor of Ontario visited our school and a wonderful man. He was an Air Force pilot. And as a black man, it was nice to see that representation. And when they say representation matters, it actually does matter.
SPEAKER_01:Black Canadians have long participated in Canada's military. In fact, many can trace their family roots to loyalists who emigrated north in the 1780s after the American Revolutionary War. Black soldiers fought in the War of 1812, defending Upper Canada against the Americans. Black volunteers also served British forces, including the Royal Navy. While participation for black Canadians within the armed forces was strong, the reception of them was weak. Prejudice, discrimination, and racism made it difficult for black men to serve. In fact, segregated battalions were formed, assigned with non-combat support roles like providing lumber for war trenches, improving roads, working in factories, building weapons, and building the railway. The reason for this segregation? Eurocentric Canadian troops refused to serve alongside them. Around the Second World War, black Canadians still fought, and in contrast to the First World War, no segregated battalions were created. They joined all troops on all fronts, fighting for a country that was not kind to them nor recognized their service. While black veterans were allowed veteran benefits, receiving them was extremely difficult. There were lengthier processes to apply for those benefits, higher demands for their employment status, and rigorous red tape around owning property. This, combined with the racial discrimination in other fronts, often deterred black veterans. Favorable home loans or access to educational programs were not given to many black Canadians who served. History books would even refuse to tell their stories, heroic stories of sacrifice and bravery. So when Lisa says that representation matters, it really does.
SPEAKER_02:So for me to see him and say, here's a black man serving as a or who has served as an officer in the Canadian Armed Forces, that means that there's no limit to what, or at least in my mind, there is no limit to what I could do. Because there's this man who is intelligent, who's eloquent, who's well decorated. He's decorated. And not only that, not just military-wise, but he's now the lieutenant governor of Ontario. Like he's been able to progress and be seen as a valuable member of society. And for me, that was what my goal was to be able to serve society and be contribute to society in some positive way. And he showed that to me.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. And so what did at the time how did you see that service in your perspective mean?
SPEAKER_02:I wanted to be a protective member of society. And as an individual who is Canadian, as someone who's Canadian born, I saw to myself that there was this was something that I can do to serve my country and more loosely my community, right? Like I can see myself as being not necessarily a leader, but an example of how people should be in society. And that's where I said to myself, I want to be that example. I had a young nephew at the time. He's now a grown man, he's a police officer now, but I wanted to be an example to that. I wanted him to look up to me and say, hey, this is a positive influence. And I want it's important to me, and it was important to me at the time to be a positive influence and to represent the black community in a positive way with all the negative things that I was seeing. I wanted to be able to represent positive, something positive, and be able to represent Canada at the same time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. When you think back on your time within um the Navy, were there moments of pride that you found? Moments that was like, yeah, this is why I'm here and I'm really glad I'm here.
SPEAKER_02:Um initially, yeah. As I said before, I did the whole high school thing. And there are moments of camaraderie, but tiny pockets here and there of moments where you're just like, Yeah, this is the great group of people. And they have my back, but it's there's moments, it's just those moments are fleeting, at least for me, they were like you move units and the people that you got along with are no longer there, and you're like it, and then you're the leadership that you had that was cool is gone because you got transferred out or whatever, and so now you have to deal with a different group. But when I joined the Navy, when I was in the reserves, I actually loved it. I I was there were obviously moments that I wasn't happy and moments that were very traumatic. But overall I was happy because the unit as a whole saw me for who I was and saw my merit. There like right before I transferred to the Reg Force, they my unit gave me an award for just stepping up and taking a charge of this of my tiny little section when when my supervisor left to do a task out of province to be able to get recognized for that, for them to say, Hey, we yes, we told you to do this, but you did an amazing job and we appreciate you and we see you. That was a really good moment for me. And then I think another moment for me was when I was able to be a century for Remembrance Day.
SPEAKER_01:What Lisa is talking about is no small role, nor should it be taken lightly. A century is a Canadian Armed Forces or RCMP officer who is selected for the Remembrance Day Century program. To be chosen for this program, you have to meet several criteria, such as record of conduct, physical fitness, community involvement, and deployment expertise. Part of this program includes the ceremonial duty of standing guard at the tomb of the unknown soldier in Ottawa and holding an honorable place at Remembrance Day events. And from hearing Lisa's heart and her story so far, it makes sense why she was chosen for such an honorable role.
SPEAKER_02:To be chosen to be sentry is a big honor for anyone to be able to do that because you're representing the Navy as you're standing there on that set cenotaph. Yeah, that that meant a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So it sounds like there were those positive experiences and meaningful if you feel comfortable. Can you share maybe just if there was an a specific event, or was there an overall just repeated experience that you experienced as a black woman within the armed forces?
SPEAKER_02:Uh honestly, it's overall, but there are there's so many minor, or not minor, they're all major events that led to the discomfort. One of them being, again, when I was doing the high school thing, being told that no woman or black person will ever reach a certain rank or position or trade trade in the military. And the problem with that is that it was told to me by a black man. And that's where the systemic issues within the military come from, because it's something that is almost ingrained, it's accepted, it's understood. And another thing that happened through that happens throughout the career is it's okay we discriminate against everyone equally. So we can say these jokes, we can say this inappropriate comment because it's okay, because someone else can say this to someone else. And um, and I've had so many times where I've said, but it's not okay. Right. Yes, you're joking, and yes, that person can probably call you, can could call you something else, and you're not going to be bothered by it, or at least you think it's okay, but that doesn't mean that everybody does. And it also the problem that I had with it was that just because you think it's funny doesn't mean it's appropriate, doesn't mean it's professional.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and it doesn't matter whether I'm offended by it or not, because half the time it doesn't, it's not a matter of being offended, it's about it being appropriate and professional and respectful. I saw it was magnified the level of ignorance that I saw within the Canadian forces. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. When so much of that systemic and long history of just not having any checks and balances, not being held accountable to words, not being held accountable, then they're just they repeat and it just it is a continuous cycle of that. Thank you for sharing that. And yeah, I so you probably saw for those of you who are listening, there the Canadian Armed Forces made in a statement this month in October, November, made a recent apology which acknowledged the long history of systemic racism and discrimination. Lisa, I'm really curious when you heard that apology, what went through your mind? Did it feel performative? Did it feel like finely, or did it feel like something else?
SPEAKER_02:It wasn't a it I believe that it's a start. I won't go as far as saying it was performative, but we really do have to be very careful when it comes to things like that, especially because this is not something that is new. This is not something that the Canadian Forces has just discovered. It's something that they've always known has been a problem.
SPEAKER_01:For sure. In October of this year, the Chief of the Defense Staff, General Jenny Carignan, addressed a crowd of military members and veterans that the Canadian Armed Forces had failed its people. This apology was a result of an eight-year-long class action lawsuit led by Reuben Coward, which outlined historic and systemic racial discrimination, harassment, prejudice, and oppression that black and other visible minority groups faced while serving Canada's armed forces. The apology, while not legally required, was an act of quote proactive restoration and the intent to build trust and begin the healing of past harms. While some people attest to this apology being the beginning of healing and of restoration, for many, is an apology enough?
SPEAKER_02:And the idea of that we failed you, that statement, that's something that has been said to me throughout my career that you were set up for failure, or that unit failed you, or you that sort of thing. And or you just have to deal with it, you just have to accept it. And so just hearing the words we failed you to me is not enough. Because we know that that failure is there, we know that disconnect is there. And so the apology, although welcomed, to me comes with a responsibility. And so it to me, like it just it goes beyond the apology. It goes beyond the visual performative actions of that. It goes deeper than that. It goes in terms of recruiting and hiring people, not based on the way that they look, but the way that they think. Yeah. And so just saying, oh, oh, look at what we're doing. We're hiring more diverse people. That's great. But what about the people who you are hiring that still have these bigoted or old school or ignorant mentalities? Yeah. Like think about that because it shouldn't matter who you hire, what where their background is, right? But what their character should matter, their character. And then the merit part will just come. And that was my issue is that I had so much merit, but I wasn't taken into consideration for so many different things because of this old boys' club or this old girls' club or whatever, or popularity contest, or we're only gonna do this because this person's our friend, or because we like this person's personnel. It's it's a favoritism issue. For me, it's more actionable. A few years ago, they had a misconduct, sexual misconduct and harassment case as well. And I'm on several Facebook groups and other things like that where I'm seeing it's almost like the problems are worse, where people are complaining, women are complaining, not just women, because it's happened to men as well, sexual misconduct and harassment and LGBTQ community. Yeah, but these things are still happening. And they had a they the same thing that they're doing now for the racial discrimination, right? They did that years ago, and these things are still happening. So, what my concern is is this gonna actually do anything? Right. What's actually going to come of it? Because they had that and things are still they put in these policies, but the policies are not helping the members.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Yeah. It's saying is one thing. I think I heard this quote. It's like, don't show me I can measure a person by not what they say, but what they do. And this idea that yes, an apology, like while okay. It's previously apologies are good. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm a I'm human immensely grateful for the apology because I actually knew one of the panelists, and that panelist was a mentor to me when I was younger, and I'm so grateful for that. Yeah, but the apology is a step, it's it is, but it's not the solution. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:It's not a solution, no, no, it's not the okay, checkbox, now we're done, no more racial discrimination ever exists. No, it's no, this is your unearthing and you're redesigning and recreating a whole system of military to to with accountability, responsibility, education of some of the things that you said as far as recruiting, your hiring, your retention, like all of that has to be done on a level that is inclusive, that is psychologically safe, something that is demonstratable by the testimony of people. It's one thing to have your higher-ups do these apologies, make the PR statements, but what are the boots on the ground, if you will, saying? What is being done there? And that should be the rubric by which we're measuring any change happening instead of right, the person with the shiny metals who can make a statement. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:One of the things that that they say is nothing about us without us. And that's the reason why they had that panel, the group of speakers that they had, which was, like I said, immensely important. That yeah, I'm grateful that they did that. And I think obviously you do need someone. She's the chief of defense staff. So it's important that you have that figurehead say, Yes, we acknowledge this, and yes, this is happening. This is important start, but we need to move forward. And I think we're it's a start. That's all.
SPEAKER_01:I think in shifting to Remembrance Day, it's interesting because I feel like Remembrance Day is one of the few national holidays or days of significance that are much more collective in the sense of it's not like, let's say, Christmas, it's not a religious holiday. Even Canada Day is kind of a day about, you know, a country or a system, but it isn't necessarily about people or a collective group of people. And so in my mind, it's it's it seems like it's a day about collective memory. Like we're all taking this opportunity to remember. But from what I've read and even from what you've shared, many black Canadians who have served, often contributions, accreditations have been left out of those, these collective stories ignored. I feel like Canada has often failed to make Black Canadian service, um, and even Asian Canadian service, Indigenous uh Canadian service part of the collective memory. I'm wondering for you, Lisa, what would Remembrance Day need to look like if it is this collective remembrance? How could Remembrance Day include black Canadians, include those who have often been silenced or shut out or ignored?
SPEAKER_02:That's a hard question. I think they focus a lot also on one one or two specific elements too. Like there's a lot of heavy focus on the army and or if there's like Navy specifically focus. I think for modern-day Remembrance Day celebrations, yeah, it would be nice to see that they're a little bit more inclusive of the individuals who have served. They are doing a good job with making it that way now. I wouldn't say a great job, but they're starting to include the various types of people who've joined. And like um, even the most recent Remembrance Day ad that I've seen had, you know, women in it, more women in it. They've had images of the Asian and Indigenous individuals, but they need to be, they need to do that. That's what, and they're starting to. But a lot of a lot of people are unaware of that. There's an Asian Canadian or Chinese Canadian veterans community or veteran society. There's a black Canadian veteran society, there's an Indigenous community, a First Nations Indigenous society. There are tremendous history before Canada was even Canada of Sikh and other individuals who have served for the Commonwealth and served for protected Canada and protected this country, you know, along like throughout many conflicts. And so if that's included in not just Remembrance Day, but in you know, a military history that's taught to students, to young kids, to everyone, and inclusive of just remembrance. Like it's not about, oh, this was a black sailor who saved, you know, who got the Victoria Cross for this and this and this. This is this was a sailor, you know, and this was, you know, an individual who helped with communication. Not that this was an indigenous person, but when you show the imagery, when you show this person was from here, this person was from this First Nation or this person was from Nova Scotia, but you're showing them, you're showing that inclusively, you're showing that representation.
SPEAKER_01:If you're looking for more history about immigrant veterans and even indigenous veterans who participated in Canada's military, a little plug, check out season one, episode 12, Immigrant Veterans, Canada's Unsung Heroes. There, Hosh and I explore the history of Sikh, Japanese Canadians, Chinese Canadians, and many, many others. Who served in Canada's Armed Forces because there are many, and because this is today Remembrance Day, it is about everyone who served, including the ones who have been forgotten, silenced, or left out of our history and our memory.
SPEAKER_02:They are Canadian. They fought for, and if they're and to speak to First Nation and Indigenous people, they chose to fight for Canada.
SPEAKER_01:Nothing in return. They couldn't vote. They couldn't own land.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Exactly. And so even though this is they're fighting for their land, but then they're being removed from it. And it's the same with the black Canadians as well. They were not recognized the same way when they came back from these conflicts. They were subjugated to smaller communities and pushed aside and not given the awards and the medals and the ceremonies and the parades, like their counterparts who served with them with honor and respect. Like they they worked together, they respected each other. A lot of black Canadians, when they came back, worked as porters because they couldn't find anything else to do because they weren't recognized for their service. They were just a sub-level of person. Yeah. And but I can't speak to that because I'm not that old. But even in modern times, I get uh questioned a lot about having veterans plates on my car or having saying that I'm a veteran.
SPEAKER_01:They're like, oh, you know, like just surprise because how could a black woman be in the military? That happens. It's awful. Like, of course, it happens. And yes, we are there. So deal. I don't know. It's it is amazing how advanced we are in so many things, and yet we're still living like we are just we like we just discovered fire. It's we're still stuck in these very harmful mindsets and narratives, and it's yeah, it's holding us back.
SPEAKER_02:I've seen it. I've seen it being an issue for people of all backgrounds, ethnically diverse backgrounds. And it just saddens me to see and witness and hear of instances where people are being othered and not made to feel like they're part of the team and that they're part of the collective. I mean, that's the whole point, right? We're all part of a collective. Yeah. And it just, it's just on it's unfortunate. But for Remembrance Day, we need to remember everyone. For me, Remembrance Day, I don't want to focus on, oh, they don't see me. It'd be nice if they did, but I'm gonna remember I in my own way, I'm gonna remember my mother's cousin who served with the Royal Air Force. I'm gonna acknowledge my service. I'm gonna acknowledge all those people who William Hall, who got the Victoria Cross. He's from Nova Scotia for saving lives. These are people's names that should not be forgotten because they're not being broadcasted in the same way as some of the other names. Yeah. Um, so I will remember them. And I think it's important that everybody else does as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. We you touched a little bit on what you would like to see from the CAF going forward as far as making more safe and inclusive actions, policies, systemic procedures, that kind of a thing. I'm going to ask you if you, Lisa, had the final authority and you wanted to recreate the CAF to be the inclusive place that it needs to be, what would that vision look like?
SPEAKER_02:That's a hard question because I think a lot of what's happening now in the or what's happened when I was in and my experiences gets muddled into oh, it's building character or it's part of training, or you have to be able to toughen up. We're toughening you up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um and for me, I'm not gonna say, oh, we have to hire this percentage of this and this percentage of that, because that's ridiculous. I want to go back to what I think the essential ethos is of the Canadian Armed Forces, and that's just mutual respect, pride, integrity. And when you hire people based on those fundamental beliefs, then you're gonna have good people. When you're not limiting to favoritism or we need to make sure that the Canadian Forces hires or Or someone hire someone because their grandfather and fathers and this person's was in. So we're going to hire you because you have a history of it, even though you're a little bit unstable. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:We're hiring you for your lineage, not for anything else. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Or because, and I hate to say it, but right now there's a lot of attrition and there's low recruiting. So we're like, we're desperate. So we're just going to take anybody. And it's just, no, just be a little bit more selective. But but be inclusive in that selectivity, if that makes sense. Representation matters so that those people in those broader groups, the different societies, can say, that's an option for me. Not, oh, we're only going to hire these people, right? But making it so that those people know that it's an option. When they go to the table and they go into the recruiting centers, and the policies need to be more than just words on paper. They need to be enforced by everyone and not just certain people. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And what you're saying is the bare minimum. Like it is not a big ask. This is not like you need to like a 50-page dissertation on equality. I need you to go through all these trainings. I need you to befriend five people who don't look like we're not asking for all of these. It's very simple, basic, be a decent human being.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's all that's all I needed.
SPEAKER_01:And I didn't get Yeah, yeah. And all we're asking is bring them back to the center and make them a part of just every day. Not the the afterthought, but the it needs to be the main event in that way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's what it is. It's just see everybody the same and treat everybody the same. And none of this because you're this or that you got this or because you're this or that. And it's it's no, I earned every part of what I've received. And so yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. To close, I would just do you have a message to Canadians on what to reflect this remembrance day? What would you say to listeners for this remembrance day, Lisa?
SPEAKER_02:Um, I think it's important that we remember, we respect, and we just don't forget those who have served, regardless of what they look like. I have been told in the past that I'm not really Canadian or I'm not as Canadian while in uniform. And it's offensive. Yeah. So our people just assume that I'm not Canadian while in uniform. And I think that when you see a person in uniform, they're in uniform. They're representing their country. Whether it's a peace officer, whether it's a military member, whether it's nurses or doctors or firefighters, or your local garbage man, we are all human beings. And so we need to be respectful of the humanity in this world, and especially as Canadians, in contrast to what's happening in the United States, we need to be very careful because we can easily fall down that slope. One thing I am noticing is that, or one thing I appreciate is that we as Canadians aren't there yet. And so this remembrance day, it's important for us to remember our humanity. It's important for us to remember our identity as Canadians. And we shall not, we should not and we shall not forget those who have made the choice to serve. Yeah. All of them. Every day. Someday, yes. But all of the people who chose to serve, don't forget respect and remember.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, Lisa. Yeah. I think that's a good message. I appreciate hearing your story more of it. I've known you for a short while, but some of those pieces are, yeah, are just really good to hear and really good to learn. So I really appreciate your time, Lisa, and joining us today and joining being in the ear of our listeners, new and old. Thank you so much for listening. We typically end on a Canadian-style pop quiz. And Lisa, I did not prep you on this question because that is what's fun about this. And you are happy. Yeah, a pop quiz. You are happy to ask me a question that maybe you have to to something related to today's topic that I may not know, which there's probably a thousand things that you know that I don't about the military. But I do have a question. I just wanted to see if you knew, which we'll see. So my question to you, Lisa, is according to Statistics Canada, what percentage of the total Canadian Armed Forces population are black women?
SPEAKER_02:That's a good question. I couldn't tell you. I would probably say So the question was in terms of the total population of the Canadian Armed Forces?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. What percentage is black women? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I would probably say about five to ten percent.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Is that your final answer? I would say so. Okay. I don't have a buzzer, but it's wrong. It's actually it's lower, so it's 1.5%, 1.5. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You were being very optimistic. Yeah. I figured it was, I figured it was lower, and I didn't want to say just 5%, but I figured it was lower. Because I've only served there's a lot of times where I'm the only one in a unit, not even just in a section, but like in a unit on a base. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. But it's it's always you're like, oh, another like another female, another black female. But it when I did see it, I saw it would be rare. But I believe that. I totally do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And according to this statistic as well, black women make up 1.6% of non-commissioned members at the private rank. And then with higher ranks, of course, that number goes way down. Yeah. Do you have a Canadian style pop quiz question for me?
SPEAKER_02:Or that's a good question. Uh who was the first Navy person to receive a Victoria Cross?
SPEAKER_01:You mentioned him. Didn't Hall? Yes.
SPEAKER_02:He was one of two. He was the first non-commissioned Canadian non-commissioned member to receive a Victoria Cross. The officer in charge of him also got a Victoria Cross, but he was the first Naval non-commissioned member. I could be wrong. Someone's probably gonna shoot me out and say, How dare you get that wrong? But yeah, and he was a black man from Nova Scotia. Oh wow. Yeah, and there's a ship named after him as well. A recently created ship that's been named after him. So these are great steps naming ships after people who have served valiantly and served their country.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it makes legacy and it makes more memory, and it definitely speaks to the full history of Canada and the armed forces. Yeah, that's very cool. Thank you, Lisa, again for joining me. It was delightful having you. Um we'll have you again for sure. Um, if you're new listening to us, please do subscribe to our podcast. You can find us on social media, TikTok, Instagram, and Blue Sky. Please do give us a review. Let us know what you thought of this episode, if you felt represented, if you felt like I resonated with the story, we'd love to hear from you. You can email us hello at CanadianSalaad.ca, and all of the links to uh sources cited in this episode will be on our website, canadiancelad.ca. So um enjoy your week and um I hope you take some good time to remember um those who have served um in the ways in which Lisa uh shared with us today. So thank you, everyone, and thank you, Lisa, and we'll talk to you next week. Thank you. Theme music is by Navir Avetyan from Pixabay.
SPEAKER_00:This has been the good drinking production.
