Presence Heals When Words Cannot

The hardest moments don’t need perfect words, they need a steady witness. Brenda sits down with Reverend Christine Vaughn Davies, an ordained Presbyterian minister and hospital chaplain leader, for a candid conversation about midlife funk, grief, and the surprising power of presence when life falls apart.

Christine shares how her early pull toward spirituality and her work as an EMT shaped her calling, then how becoming a patient herself changed everything. She opens up about navigating an epilepsy diagnosis, feeling dismissed by medical professionals, and what “medical gaslighting” does to your sense of self and trust. From there, we dig into a practical definition of spirituality that goes far beyond religion: connection to yourself, to others, and to the divine, and what happens when any of those connections rupture.

We also talk openly about miscarriage grief and the phrases that can sting even when they are meant well. Christine breaks down spiritual toxic positivity and offers real alternatives, including the simplest rule most of us resist: show up and shut up. You’ll leave with concrete ways to support someone in pain, plus gentle spiritual practices you can try right now, even if you don’t consider yourself religious. We close with midlife hope, perimenopause honesty, and how to build a “lady tribe” with intention instead of waiting for schedules to magically align.

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Speaker 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome back to Find Your Lady Tribe, where we are navigating the midlife funk with grace and style, like we always do. I'm super excited today to share with you a fabulous lady, the Reverend Christine Von Davies. She has got a fabulous story of transformation and she's helping so many people. So let me tell you a little bit more about Christine. She is an ordained Presbyterian minister, ACPE certified educator, seminary professor, and trained spiritual director. She runs spiritual care department at Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital. She lives with her family on a small farm in New Jersey and spends her time chasing chickens and chauffeuring her school-aged children to all of their activities, which I'm sure there are many if it's anything like my experience.

Speaker 1 0:53

Very much. That is so much of my life.

Speaker 0:56

A full-time Mom-ager. That's what I I remember. You're taking me back, Christine.

Speaker 1 1:02

Oh, well, you know, if you want to come back and pick up any of the driving chips, feel free if you're if you're missing it.

Speaker 1:08

I hear you. Well, you know, I mean, motherhood was uh is still like the most rewarding journey, but boy.

Speaker 1 1:15

Um is it draining.

Early Spiritual Calling And EMT Work

Speaker 1:16

It's and it's easy to get lost in that as well as a lot of other things. So that's kind of what we're what we are talking about. Welcome to the Find Your Lady Tribe Podcast. I'm your host, Brenda Ridgley. This is season four. We are deep diving into the heart of midlife reinvention. That sense that you've mastered your roles, but you've lost your spark. You are exactly where you need to be. This season is inspired by the framework of my upcoming book. Ignite your life's purpose and save the world. We're gonna help you move from autopilot to on fire by hearing from incredible women who have reclaimed their own life force. It's time to stop just going through the motion and start living your next chapter with intention. Let's ignite that spark. Save the world, sister. I want you to share your story from the beginning and and give us all of the you know, the whole ups, ups and downs of all of it. We want to hear your midlife funk and you know how you came out of it. And I'll I'll I'll jump in and ask you some questions throughout your perfect.

Speaker 1 2:27

I have lots of funk. Uh so and uh uh lots of stories. So um it my story kind of starts um really at a young age, I felt uh very much attuned to spirituality in ways that I think kind of confounded um a lot of the people around me, including my family. Um, but we uh went to a local Presbyterian church and I really loved it. I loved singing in the choir, even though I am not a singer. Um I loved being in the pews. There was something about it I felt really drawn toward. Um, I also felt like, oh, God, I think wants me to help people, and how might I be able to do that? And so for a time, I thought that was going to be through medicine. That uh was a dream that I had. My mother, I think, fanned the flame of that a little bit because she was a nurse. And so I spent time, um, my first job was working as an EMT on the ambulances and really enjoyed being with people in their most vulnerable settings. And I'd be in the backs of the ambulance while I could give, you know, small repair, like uh wrapping their wounds and giving oxygen. A lot of what I wound up doing was holding people's hands while they were frightened. They didn't know how their life was going to turn out in this um chaos of an unexpected medical issue. And looking back now, that's a lot of what I do. I journey with people who are going through something uh and not knowing what it's going to mean for their lives.

Speaker 4:03

I bet that's really uncommon for a prof a medical professional to just fall into that role. Right.

Speaker 1 4:11

I mean, I haven't been in the back of a lot of ambulances, but I just don't I I'm probably in unusual that I was doing a lot more of that than most. Um and I didn't recognize what it was at that time. Yeah, I mean, I even remember the first um, my first death that I had in the ambulance where we had an individual who we had um taken on. We were doing CPR. He actually was okay when he got in. He was having chest pains, but en route um it got really bad. And um he wound up probably dying by the time we got to the hospital. We couldn't pronounce him, but I remember the um the patient's wife was just so upset. She didn't understand how this could happen. And she just collapsed on the curb on the curb in the ambulance kind of parking lot. So I just sat down next to her and uh it really kind of held her as she was wailing. And I think that's so much of what chaplains do. And I do think that there are some um medical professionals that are doing that as well, um, that are just really not there's nothing we can do to fix the pain sometimes, or to certainly to fix death, but we can make it 1% better if we're just there with them and people aren't feeling alone in it.

Speaker 5:26

Right. Just having someone there to be. You know, um, I think that that's more powerful than we think. We always have to feel like we have to provide an answer or um whatnot, but not so much. Sometimes you just want someone there holding your hand.

Speaker 1 5:43

Yeah, and actually sometimes the the words that we say can make it worse, especially from a spiritual perspective. I see a lot of what I call spiritual toxic positivity, uh, where people are told things like, oh, you know, it's in God's hands or everything happens for a reason or God needs another angel. And I really teach people to say, nothing. The best thing that you can do in some instances is to show up and shut up. And that matters more.

Speaker 6:14

I love that show up and shut up. Yes.

Speaker 1 6:18

It sounds easy. It's actually hard to do in the moment. The temptation is to, you know, fill the space because we're inclined to want to make people feel better, but sometimes you really can't. Yeah. And yeah, love it.

Speaker 6:32

So, okay, please continue.

Speaker 1 6:35

So um it was uh after I was working uh in the ambulance uh field for a while, I actually became the patient myself. So I um was in and out of hospitals and it took a long time to get to a diagnosis, but eventually I was um found to have generalized epilepsy. I'm fortunate it is all pretty well under control now. I have great doctors and medication, and um it's a common issue. One in 26 people um have epilepsy. Um, but at the time, it really um was one of those uh major bumps in the road for me that really changed the course of my life because I was dismayed by the bedside care of those doctors that I had put on such a pedestal and wanted to become. Uh, and it turns out, uh, you know, I wasn't treated like a person that was being impacted by this emotionally and spiritually. I was treated like a number or a problem to solve. And it was around the same time that the pastor at my church uh in between hospitalizations took me out to dinner and just talked about it. Like, oh, what is what is this like? How are you, how are you handling all of this? And that was a turning point for me because I'm like, that's what I want to do. I want to help people by being attuned to what's going on for them emotionally and spiritually, especially in the face of a new diagnosis.

Speaker 8:01

Yeah. So let's talk just a little bit more about how um that whole process felt. You are idolized, you idolize these doctors, you want to be in this profession, yet you can't you are made to feel like a number and not a person. And you're I can imagine as afraid and not sure what what's going to come about. So tell us just a little bit more.

Speaker 1 8:23

All of that. So maybe I'll get there by first defining um how I define spirituality, which is a much larger definition than religion. Sometimes people think of religion only, but I like to define spirituality as our way of connecting to ourselves, our way of connecting to others around us, and our way of connecting to the divine. For some, like me, that might be God. For others, it may be the universe. And so there's a concept called spiritual distress that happens when any one of those three points of connection have a rupture. And for me, I felt ruptured in a couple of different ways. The first was, and this is really when we were going through trying to find the diagnosis, I was told by some medical professionals it was all in my head. I mean, it was. They were accurate in that it was in my head, but not in the way that they were um uh, you know, ascribing to me. Um and so I really felt disconnected from that community element and that and that profession and the people that I wanted to be like. So that was a connection from others. I felt connect disconnection from myself. I was second guessing. I think a lot of people go through what we now call medical gaslighting, where they're like, well, is this really happening? Is it not? When they're not being believed. Um, and then also I didn't feel connected to myself in um when I got that diagnosis because um I felt like my body had betrayed me um by having these seizures. It wasn't doing the things that I was used to it doing and just feeling so out of control. And my guess is that your listeners can really identify with that, um, regardless of what their medical background is. Just that idea of this is not how I wanted my life to go. And I can't, um, I can't trust myself to to do the things that I wanted to do without all of these other issues getting in the way.

Speaker 10:27

Yeah. So um you're you come out uh of um your medical situation and you can't be in the medical field anymore.

Why Chaplaincy Felt Like Home

Speaker 1 10:43

Or well, I I probably could have. I was very dismayed. Okay. Um I uh and you know what? Organic chemistry turns out was also not for me. Um so there were a few signs that that was not gonna be ultimately where I landed. Um and so I um really thought more about, well, what it what about seminary? What might that look like? I did not want to lead a church. I hate giving sermons. I knew that it wasn't gonna be that element of it. Um, but I thought maybe I will get be a counselor for, you know, clergy or run a faith-based nonprofit and help people that way. Uh, and so I went to seminary. I also got my master's of social work degree um and and was working for a time as a cognitive behavioral therapist. And I enjoyed that work. Um, but I really missed the spiritual side of things. And in seminary, we were required to do a hospital chaplaincy internship, which I now teach, and um just loved every minute of it.

Speaker 11:47

So, what is it that lights you up about that?

Speaker 1 11:51

It is just such a privilege to get to be with people in their darkest moments when they are feeling alone and afraid. And um, again, we don't have any answers, but I I view my role as someone that bears witness to their pain, is with them for a short time on the journey, and um sometimes is a reminder of the divine presence. You know, I walk into a room and people tell me exactly what they think about God a lot of the times. Uh, and sometimes it's you know, anger at God for good reason. And being able to explore that with people um is is just so rewarding to me. And no day is ever the same, and uh you I never know exactly what it's going to bring. Um, and and that I love about it as well.

Speaker 12:45

And so I I assume you have um talked to a lot of family members about um a passing. Have you had some experience with that for yourself?

Miscarriage Grief And Hurtful Platitudes

Speaker 1 12:57

Uh I have, unfortunately, and and one of the more difficult experiences that I went through and really I think helped me to be a better chaplain was um several miscarriages in my in my midlife. Uh that was a I that was a funk I was in for a very long time. And some of them were ectopic, some of them were earlier, some of them were later. And I'm sure, again, your listeners know how common that is. You know, one in four pregnancies uh can end in miscarriage. And I didn't realize it until I went through it just how spiritually devastating that can also be. And um again, was found myself dismayed by my well-meaning friends around me and some family members that were saying some of those platitudes, um, like, oh, you know, uh, at least you know you can get pregnant, or you can always try again, or, you know, everything happens for a reason. And I found those to be, you know, more harmful than helpful. And so now I actually have the honor of being with many people in the hospital that are going through that and being able to be a presence, not sharing my story, but operating from my story in that I know how devastated they are. I know that that pain is going to continue for a long time. A lot of what I teach is that grief is just always with us.

Speaker 14:27

Yeah. Let's talk just a little bit about how you would have liked your friends to show up for you.

Speaker 1 14:34

Well, I should preface it by saying I had some friends that showed up fantastically. So I'll tell you about that. Um, so I I think a lot of people just didn't understand it, not having gone through it themselves. Um, or maybe they had gone through it and I didn't know, and it brought things up for them where, you know, they just pulled away because it was too, it was too painful because it was too close to home. Um, but I remember I had some friend friends of mine, some good friends of mine from seminary who I said, you know what, I just can't pray anymore. I'm not, I'm not feeling uh close to God in this. In fact, I'm a little angry. So it would be really helpful if you just prayed for me and if I knew that you were praying for me. Um, so that was one way that was terrific. Um, I had, you know, people, uh, I did have a friend of mine send me a card that said, uh I still have it, that said something along the lines of, uh, let me punch the uh the next person who tells you that this is happening for a reason. And so just acknowledging the pain, um, even in a comical way. And uh, I also had a friend that sent me chocolate-covered strawberries that I ate in all one sitting. Uh, and that was also fantastic. So I think it was, I wanted people to acknowledge what I had gone through. And I think the tendency of our society is not to acknowledge. People think, oh, if I talk about it with them, the person going through this loss, it's gonna make it worse. But really, the opposite is true.

Speaker 16:03

Hey lady, just wanted to take a moment and interrupt right now in the middle of the show to ask you to subscribe. Yes, press that button right now. This show is all about you, the mid-life woman. Let's do this thing together. So join us. Subscribe now. And I think I heard you say once uh as far as maybe this situation or any uh situation that's can't understand, just show up and shut up.

Speaker 1 16:33

Yes, that is the best uh advice that I have for people because sometimes our words can do harm, but our presence really matters. Some of my chaplain interns are shocked when they're at a deathbed, and afterwards the the family is hugging them and thanking them for being there, and they come back to my office. They're like, Christine, I didn't do anything, but the family was so grateful. I said, You you did something, you were present. You made sure that they had anything that they needed. Um, you guided them gently. So there's our our words can do harm, but our presence can speak volumes.

Speaker 17:16

That's so lovely because so often we come into a crisis situation of sorts as a friend or just a bystander and want to help and we want to fix it and we want to say the right thing and do the right thing and make you know, tell them what they should do.

Speaker 1 17:32

Yeah, I think our inclination is to make people feel better. And look, I have done that plenty before I realized the error of my ways, it's coming from a compassionate place. Um, and there are some things that you can say, certainly just um you could say things like, I am so sorry, I don't know what you're going through, but I want to listen and I'm here for you. And then really listen and allow that person to talk. Or if that person doesn't want to talk, you know, maybe uh I advise people sometimes to say, you know, I'm going on a walk. Do you want to join? And we can walk in quiet or we can have conversation. Um, so things that really allow people to open up um if they want to, to give them that space to express and reflect and join with you.

Speaker 18:19

That's I love that. That's just being together. Even let's let's just watch a movie. We don't talk at all. We're just I'm we're just together.

Speaker 1 18:26

Let's or sometimes I'll tell people and I'll do this myself if I know a friend that's going through something. I'll just text them and say, You do not need to reply to any of this. Just know I am thinking of you. Um, I I do recommend not saying to someone, is there anything I can do to help? Or let me know what I can do to help. Because sometimes that request can be overwhelming. And so what I suggest in lieu of that is to reach out to your friend or your family or whoever it is and say, you know, I want to do something tactile to help you. Or, you know, I want to maybe, maybe you're not using that word, but I want to do something to help you. Uh, I'm going to the grocery store. I'm going to leave uh, you know, breakfast items for you outside your house, or I can mow your lawn for you. Or let me know which one. You can't do that. Yeah, and someone might respond and say, no, I don't need that, but actually, could you take the dog for a walk? Um, and so sometimes with close friends that you're um logistically close to and geographically close to, that can really help.

Practical Ways To Support Others

Speaker 19:28

Oh, that's a those are some great ideas. Awesome, awesome. Well, Christine, you kind of touched on it a little bit, but what is the difference between religion and spirituality?

Speaker 1 19:39

Yeah, it's a great question. And I get it all the time, especially when I'm going into patients' rooms, um, introducing myself to them. I tell them I am not the church police. I do not care about, you know, uh if you go to a congregation or not. Um, but religion is an agreed upon set of rituals, practices, and beliefs held by a community for the sake of communing with the divine. Um, so most people know what religion is. You think of Judaism, you think of Islam, you think of Christianity, um, the institutionalized religions that are out there. Spirituality is a much broader definition. So it's I define it as how you connect to and explore the world within and around you, and how you make meaning and find transcendence. And so religion might fit into that definition of spirituality for some people. For some people, religion is the spirituality in totality. Um, but for many more people, I find religion maybe is a piece of it, or maybe not in it at all. And it's really about what is what are the broader ways that we are feeling connected to ourselves, to others around us, and to the greater world. And so a lot of what I do, I have a private practice as a spiritual director where I meet with people who are looking to really tap into their sense of spirituality and try different spiritual practices and perhaps untangle some of the religious trauma that they may have grown up with as well.

Speaker 21:14

Yeah, it's it's uh a lot out there. I mean, I think I hear a lot from people, I um I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual. Or I'm spiritual.

Speaker 1 21:23

Yep, that's the growing percentage, 22% of Americans define themselves in that way.

Speaker 21:28

Yeah, and I have to say I kind of fall into that too. I do believe I as well believe in God, and I think, but I think you can do both. Um so it's it's your own practice. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 21:37

Right? Yeah, and I find that sometimes people need permission to embrace spirituality because sometimes our culture conflates spirituality with religion in a way that I do not find to be helpful. Um, and so really recognizing for some people, what helps them get in touch with their spirituality may be things like nature or Meditation or going to a concert and having a transcendent experience there. And so really trying to widen people's understanding of what spirituality can look like.

Speaker 22:11

Well, let's expand on that a little bit. Why don't what are some spiritual practices that you can recommend that people try?

Religion Versus Spirituality Defined

Speaker 1 22:18

Yeah. So there, you know, there's always more advanced ones, like different types of meditation and things like that. But what I recommend for people, especially if they're starting this out, is to think about what you have in your daily life, what you're already doing, and doing it with a little bit more intentionality around it. So for instance, I love coffee. That is my big vice. I am very particular about my coffee and I drink way too much of it. Um, and some mornings I'm drinking my coffee while trying to get the kids out of the house on the bus. It's my coffee. I'm like either chugging it or I come back to it and it's cold and I'm frazzled and I'm doing a million things. Other mornings, I might be able to take my coffee outside, be in the sunlight, hear the bird song, slowly sip it, wonder about like, you know, that type of being that made it actually tasting my coffee rather than just um, you know, uh trying to get all the caffeine benefits out of it very quickly. Um, and so that's one simple act, but the way in which I can engage it is totally different.

Speaker 23:30

Yes, I I I I feel that. I that's there's nothing like just taking a few breaths and really being present with your coffee or your tea or whatever.

Speaker 1 23:40

Yeah, have mindfulness and having that as a ritual.

Speaker 23:44

I love it. Well, Christine, let's just bring it all full circle. You had a lot of midlife funk, you know, that that shaped who you are and what you do today. Tell us about, you know, where you're at now and like, you know, what you're excited about.

Speaker 1 23:59

Uh yeah. So some of what I'm excited about now are um I'm excited that it is uh the weather is turning. And uh it feels like that in my life as well. So um, you know, uh some of your listeners may be familiar with all of the wonderful surprises that perimenopause brings. And that has been a struggle for me for several years now. And now I found a provider that listens and has a plan. And, you know, so um, even though, you know, there's still lots to tweak out about that, and some of those symptoms are just uh very stubborn, um I think I'm feeling hope about being able to get through it, um, help others, you know, learn about that as well, and recognizing like my my identity is is also shifting uh, you know, as I turn the corner as my kids grow up. Um, and that that's not a bad thing. There's actually a lot of rebirth that can happen. And I don't even know, you know, what a year from now will bring.

Speaker 24:58

Right. Well, but uh but you're excited about it.

Speaker 1 25:01

Yes, yeah. No, not from a place of despair, but really like, oh, I wonder. I wonder what might happen and being open to it.

Simple Spiritual Practices For Daily Life

Speaker 25:08

Right. I love that because I think a lot of times we get stuck in a spot where it's uncomfortable and we uncertain and we kind of get stuck.

Speaker 1 25:17

Yeah, it's like it's like moving from like a scarcity mindset and that fear to really open and curious.

Speaker 25:24

Yeah, I love it. Well, so Christine, how does everyone find you?

Speaker 1 25:29

So probably the best place is my website, which is my first name, Christine uh V, my middle initial, and then uh Davies.com. Um, all of my socials are on there. You can contact me directly. I also do a lot of writing on Substack and have a lot of articles about my work as a chaplain and different spiritual practices that people may want to try.

Speaker 25:51

Great. And I'll have all that information in the show notes. So just come on back here and click on and we'll have all the links there for you. So uh the final question I always ask all of my guests because we are about all about lady tribes here. Christine, how do you tribe?

Speaker 1 26:08

So I have been really intentional about trying to cultivate uh relate friendship relationships in my life. I had to recognize like my husband does not meet the majority of my social needs and really having to put myself out there and and find other, for me, it's a lot of ladies who get it. Um and so something that I have started doing uh several years ago that has uh really uh paid uh greatly for me is um when I'm meeting with a friend, um, I don't let us finish our meeting, whether we're having coffee, whether we're I like to just go on walk. Sometimes I will meet up with a friend in the parking lot of my child's basketball practice because that's the only time that will work. Um I say, okay, we need to get our next date on the calendar now so that we have it there. Um, it might have to get moved or something like that, but I was so sick of the back and forth of the emails of and texts of, oh, when can we get together? And and no, it never happens. So really being intentional about prioritizing those relationships and even for my long-distance friends, you know, texting throughout the day, trying to plan trips uh, you know, once or twice a year uh is something that I've started doing and really look forward to.

Speaker 27:26

I love hearing you say that you are preaching to the choir lady because I book a meeting from a meeting. That's I learned that I learned that in sales training, right? When I was great, but you but you because there's never a better time when you're standing face to face with your your phone, your you know, calendar in your hand.

Speaker 1 27:43

Yes, everything's looking for them now. So you can do it.

Speaker 27:46

Yeah, so my my friends give me uh tease me because I'm like, she always does that. She was like, I'm glad I'm not alone.

Speaker 1 27:54

For a while I felt weird about it. And I even had one friend, she's like, Well, I have a paper calendar. I'm like, I don't care. We're gonna we're gonna come up with dates, and then you could check your paper calendar later.

Perimenopause Hope And Identity Shifts

Speaker 28:03

Yeah, I love it. And another thing that I love that you said that your your husband doesn't check all the boxes as far as your social needs. And gosh, no one should have to, right? We need that's why we need a tribe. We need a tribe of really important. Right, to have different aspects of our life that we want to continue to grow in and explore. And we shouldn't expect one person to do that for us. So very good, very good. Awesome. Well, hey, thank you so much, Christine, for being a part of Find Your Lady Tribe Family Now. And thank you to the listeners who show up. And I hope and know that you got something great after out of Reverend Christine's uh visit today. Uh definitely come back and visit your show notes, share it with a friend who might need to hear some of this, and uh just I I can't thank you enough for being a part of our tribe. So, as I always like to close, when three or more gather, we are tribe. Thank you for spending this time with your lady tribe. I always say that when three or more gather, we are tribe. And today, with my guests, myself, and you listening in, that circle is complete. I hope this story reminded you that your purpose is worth the pursuit. If this episode stirred something in you, please take a moment to subscribe, like, and leave a comment. Your engagement helps other sisters find their way to our circle. If you're ready to take the next step in your own transformation, I invite you to join our gathering place, the Save the World Sisterhood Facebook group. It's where we unmask, connect, and cheer each other on as we ignite our lives together. Until next time, I'm Brenda Ridgley. Save the world sister.