Confessions Beyond the Food
Confessions Beyond the Food is a podcast about working in the Food Industry. People who work in the Food Industry have grit and lots of stories to tell. W3 Sales, a sales & marketing company, will host this podcast with their confessions on how they have a new, fresh approach and invite guests to confess their secrets to their sauce.
Confessions Beyond the Food
Scaling a Chocolate Empire without Sacrificing Quality
Just in time for Valentines' Day! 😍 The Real Life Willy Wonka of the Midwest, Dan Abel Jr joins Nancy Ridlen on the latest episode.
Dan shares how he scaled the family business without sacrificing quality. What is so fascinating about the company history is that the Bissinger's roots go back to 1668 in Paris, France, and revolve around King Louis the XIV & Napolean Bonaparte! For over 200 years, the company had the distinction of being Confectioner to the Empire. Once a brand reserved for Royalty in France is alive and well and still being enjoyed in the USA.
Who LOVES getting chocolate for Valentines? We do! 🙋
Welcome to Confessions Beyond the Food. I'm your host, Nancy Redland. Let's dig in and get inspired. Hi, welcome back to Confessions Beyond the Food. My name is Nancy and I'm with W3. Today we have Dan Abel joining us. Welcome.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1:We're so glad to have you. So Dan is the chief chocolate officer of two beloved St Louis-based companies Chocolate, chocolate, chocolate how can you go wrong with that? And Bissinger's Handcrafted Chocolatier. So you're known as the Willy Wonka of the Midwest, right, yeah, so you guys have a really rich history. Do you mind just giving us a quick snapshot of that history? It's really cool.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. Two brands have a really great history on both sides. Starting with Chocolate Chocolate Chocolate Company. My parents started it in 1981. My dad went to college out of state and kind of started working for a candy company in a warehouse picking and packing job where he picked and packed orders similar to what like an Amazon picking and packing order would be today, but it was just all candy related products and really kind of fell in love with the business and so went from working in the warehouse to working in the candy kitchen, to working in the production floor, to working in the retail stores and really learned the whole business and stayed up there for a few years and then told them that he wanted to go back to St Louis. He was born and raised in St Louis and he was dating my mom at the time long distance and so she was in St Louis. So they were you know this was the 70s and so late 70s and with there's no social media, it was in Ohio to St Louis, such a longer distance than it is today. So they were encouraging to him to start out and said we'll help you any way we can.
Speaker 2:In 1981, he opened up his first store and it was him and my mom. He opened up in February, they got married in May of that year and then they were the two employees and it started with one little candy kitchen, a retail store and two employees and then really in 1998 was kind of the second retail store that opened and then my brother's sister and I all got involved in the business at different times and we still are today. And so we really wanted to, as we got up school, get in there and build a business. And my parents were really honest with us. They said they're very excited about the family business but also there's just not money in the business to just pay you your salary that you want without growth. So we were very motivated to go build a business. So he said we're going to pay, go build the business. So you know, he was said you know we're going to pay you the hourly rate and if you want to go make more money than that, go get the business for it. And that was all I needed.
Speaker 2:So you know, we, we, we worked a lot of different channels and and the one that really kind of stuck after, after kind of trying everything with wholesale, we started with some local tourist accounts and then went into small regional retailers and then started some local trade shows, to regional trade shows, to national trade shows, and traveled all over the country and knocked on doors and got used to hearing the word no, got used to hearing the word maybe, and then one in 10 or one in 100 was the yeses. And then and then learning that the first sale doesn't make a customer, it's the second sale and you know it was the the very much school of hard knocks with, with no budget and no, you know, we used to go to these trade shows and there's these big fancy trade shows with teams building them and we had a table. So it was was very much learn and make it work. And then in the same town there was Bissinger's. And so Bissinger's since I've been in the candy business my whole life with my family, you knew your competitors and you knew the business and, just like anything, if you're a baker you know the other bakers, if you're a candy maker, you know the other candy makers and everyone was kind of the same in a way.
Speaker 2:But Bissinger's was up at this different level and there was a steer behind Bissinger's and the stores were fancier and the product was more handmade and we all sold products in a one-pound box and Bissinger's sold it differently. Everything about Bissinger's was so different and, you know, at like 16, 17 years old, I didn't really get it, I just knew it was fancy. But then, as we started to kind of dig into it and learn your competition and just, we would see each other at the same trade shows and you know, you got to know the company. We really started to learn the history and learn what they do. So in 2019, when they went for sale, you know I had sat down with my family and I said you know, we are looking for we're kind of at that next stage where we're looking for growth. This is a great opportunity. We are a company that likes to hand make products using premium ingredients and you know we do it slower than most. You go to big factories and you see a lot of automation and things rolling fast. That's not us and Bissinger's was like the only other candy company around that had that same DNA.
Speaker 2:The big difference is that Bissinger's history started in 1668, paris, france so much different than 1981. And we don't know the true start, but we believe that it probably started 10 or 20 years before that because in 1668, they were actually awarded the Confesseur Imperial, which is the confectioner to the empire, and it came directly from King Louis XIV, and so from there on, bisinger's confections were mostly just enjoyed at the palace of versailles for quite a long time. There was. It goes from king louis xiv all the way to napoleon, or napoleon it was 1800. So somehow in this 200 year reign, bisinger's reign supreme as the confectioner to the empire, and a lot of customers came from guests of the palace and unfortunately we don't have tweets and Facebook posts from the 1700s, like we don't know if they also were sent to the public or if they just kind of became, you know, the palace's confectioners, but it truly was, you know, once a brand reserve for royalty.
Speaker 1:That is fascinating. I mean, there's so much to like, I have so many questions, okay. So my first question is okay, what is it like around the Thanksgiving table? I mean, in the family dynamics your sister's involved? Are your parents still involved?
Speaker 2:Parents are still involved, my brother's involved. We always talk shop and our children and our spouses can't stand it. But there is a giant 3-pound, 10-inch or 12-inch turkey in the middle of the table that all the kids get to break up at the end of the Thanksgiving dinner. So it's a lot of fun. There's always chocolate involved.
Speaker 1:I mean you had me at chocolate, so, and I mean this is such a fun time y'all to talk about chocolate because it's Valentine's Day coming up Is this your busiest time of year?
Speaker 2:Christmas is the busiest. Christmas is about 40% of the entire portfolio for the year. Valentine's is the most compressed holiday, you know. So that really the 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th and 14th those five days is the most demand in our retail stores and some of our stores hit 1,000 customers a day per store and it's mostly fresh-chip chocolate-covered strawberries in those last few days which we're making that morning. So it's a lot of logistics that are involved. But Christmas is a little bit more spread out through the month of December. So you know, right now the calm before the storm is pretty. You know it's like the stores are beautifully decorated with Valentines and there's card boxes everywhere and truffles and assortments. But we're not much busier than a standard Tuesday. But in 10 days from now it's going to be insane and that's what's so and it's because guys are last minute, like I still haven't bought my lifestyle, I just take it. So it's very much a compressed holiday.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. So you guys are so nice. Y'all sent me a box of chocolate, so I am so excited. My kids wanted me to open it and eat it immediately and I was like, no, I'm saving it for today. So is this branding? Is that the original branding from Bissinger's?
Speaker 2:Bissinger's. We have the original logo. It's a little bit more scripted. We added the soap Kind of an interesting history.
Speaker 2:What happened was that Bissinger's, in 1845, moved to the United States. That's right around the time the French Empire fell. They moved to the United States. It was their candy maker, the Bissinger's family, and they brought the recipe book and so they kind of had to start over. But we have newspaper clippings and artifacts from the 1800s, right around the time they opened, talking about that. They were the famous bissinger's family that made candy, you know, for the french empire. So it's, it's unbelievable how much you know how, how viral they went before you could go viral about. They landed in cincinnati and you have, like I don't even know, do they have tv back in 18? Like they, nothing, it's just newspaper, right, newspaper and radio, and we have newspaper clippings talking about the famous passengers from france.
Speaker 2:So they started in cincinnati and from from that point on they came to St Louis in 1927. So back in the 1800s it was called Bissinger's Fine French Confections and then in 1927, there were two brothers. The one brother, carl Bissinger, split from the company to move to St Louis to open up his own Bissinger's, and so he had to change the name, so that was called Carl Bissinger's. And so he had to change the name, so that was called Carl Bissinger's French Confections. And then what happened was, I think in the 90s Bissinger's of St Louis then bought out Bissinger's of Cincinnati, so there's just now one Bissinger which is us. So then I would say 2000,.
Speaker 1:In the 2000s we kind of cleaned it all up just to disinterest handcrafted chocolate here I mean the packaging alone, I mean just the quality, and I mean when you open it up and the paper. I mean this is. These are all things that are so impressive to me.
Speaker 2:So I guess, as a, I've been tearing that seal off when you open it to me, like when I get a box of this and I'm the one. I just think that's so. Yes, Like that quality sealer.
Speaker 1:Yes, I mean y'all want to see if you're watching. I mean the chocolates, I mean look how cute Actually one fell out and that's my fault.
Speaker 2:Every single one of those little decorations are placed in my hand.
Speaker 1:Are you serious?
Speaker 2:When people come on a factory tour, they're just, they're blown away because it's there's 100 people in the candy kitchen. All they're doing is and decorating the pieces and placing them on or and drizzling, and it's just people's like headaches because they're. You know, they're used to seeing everything else in the world go automated or go through machines and Bissinger's recipes the last Bissinger's recipe book we have is from 1899. And even though, like right now, we're in a new product development phase, but even though we're about to launch something that's brand new though we're about to launch something that's brand new it actually is based off of a recipe that came out of the 1899 recipe book. It's just changing the flavors and changing the ingredients. And then the chocolate itself is still made in Europe and still has the same bean and roast level that actually Carl Bissinger himself developed. So we still, even though it's 2025, we're still operating like an 1800s company or 1700s company.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that was my next question was just that as you scale larger, you know, and larger because you guys are selling everywhere, I mean not just, I mean it's not just brick and mortar. You mentioned, you know, the retailers that you work with outside the Midwest and so I guess, as you scale larger, how are you balancing that and tradition and the quality craftsmanship?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. So in 2012, when we opened up the facility that we're in today, we had basically if you think of the I love lucy style production line where machines are being chocolate we had one small line and then we added another line a year later. So it's usually a team of three to four people per production line. Now, what you can do if you go to like you know, you ever got to go see a snickers factory the machines are like 10 feet wide and they're moving that at like 10 feet a minute. So that's the belt speed is going, you know, or 20 feet, it's just some crazy number. So, and you know, and what we do is we have a maximum width about just a little bit over a foot. We have 12 inch wide to 16 inch wide machines and they're only like 30 or 40 feet long. So you know 2012, know 2012, we had one line and then, at the end of 2012, we put the second line in.
Speaker 2:Today we have seven production lines running and they have each one has a team of three to four. Line seven just got installed last November, and then we are building a multimillion dollar factory expansion. So we're actually under construction right now and we're doubling the size of our production facility as we speak, which will be finished about late June or July, and so our whole philosophy is, instead of putting a much bigger line, is just keep adding small production lines. And so it's all of these teams. So it's right now. There's today, in the production floor, there's seven teams for people working on different products, and then there's the packing department, and then there's the candy kitchen. So we just keep adding layers of teams, so we keep that consistency of the handmade confections, just like we were doing it decades ago.
Speaker 1:I love that Just keeping the infrastructure, keeping the people, the details as we go into it. You know such a modern, advanced technology phase. You know, with AI and all the things around, technology and modernization still need people. So, and for that, quality assurance. So one thing that I really love about learning about your company is all the innovation. So I saw well, of course, I saw chocolate first and then you know I'm tunnel vision but I did see another word that always catches my attention cocktails. So tell me about the innovation of your chocolate and cocktails.
Speaker 2:Well, this is going to be a big boozy year for us, so there's a lot going on with cocktails. We started with a collection called Cocktails of Bissingers and this was like a passion project of mine, where I love cocktails, like you know all the spirits out there, I love cocktails the best over wine, over beer, over just straight spirits, and I'm always, you know, in my own personal bar, in my house, I have like nine different styles of bitters and I have different vermouths and different layers, and so I'm always experimenting myself and I said how do we bring that into chocolate? Kind of. At the same time, we got connected with some really great brands in Kentucky and so we've been making a lot of spirit confections for them, but for just for their gift shops. So we work with Blanton's and we work with Castle and Key right now and we've been manufacturing products for them for their own distilleries in Kentucky. And then we decided once we decided to make the first cocktails at Visagers Collection. It was kind of like my test and it went wildly successful and it was kind of like why did we wait so long? Who would have thought that chocolate and alcohol wouldn't have been a great seller, and especially with the fun cocktail flavors that we did so.
Speaker 2:So then it's matured into we castle and key distillery, which is literally a beautiful castle. It's um, it's you know, it's an old distillery that was reopened a few years ago. It has come into. They've created a gin and a vodka now. So they started with rye and bourbon, so we were doing bourbon balls and bourbon caramels for the rye and bourbon spirits.
Speaker 2:But we decided together this year to launch a gin and tonic truffle bar with the Castellan Key gin and then the Bissinger's chocolate and also they would sell it and then we would sell it, so it would be a co-branded collaboration product. And it's awesome. They would sell it and then we would sell, so it'd be a co-branded collaboration product. And it's been wildly successful. So then in like a short 60 days we have sold what I thought was a two years forecast. So now they have given us permission to create a whole product line with their vodka and with their bourbon that we can bring out into the market as well. So we're doing more innovation on the spirit side than I've ever seen before, which is like a you know, it's half passion project to me and then half working with great partners.
Speaker 1:That's so fun. I mean just being in food service and working with mixology and you know chefs and just seeing how their worlds are colliding. It's really fun to see how chocolate is, you know, and cocktails are colliding. That's super fun. So I guess I have a question in terms of you. You have something that you have an idea, like you did, and then it just goes viral, viral. What do you do as far as like, because you thought it was a two-year plan and it ended up booming? How do you handle that with just keeping up? Do you just say no to orders, or how do you because one thing would yeah, sorry, yeah that's.
Speaker 2:I have a problem saying no, and it's a curse and a blessing. Um, there's, you know, we always, sometimes like the truck is backing up and we're finishing the order, you know, and we like bring the truck driver like a couple chocolate bars to sit there for 20 minutes. Uh, you know, we, we really you know we have expanded the plant six times since we, since we. So we moved into this facility in 2012 and then started there. Then we added it's been since 2012 to 2025, tens of millions of dollars in investment from more we have a second facility down the street to more equipment, and so now, with the addition so every year there's a big thing that happens to handle the growth.
Speaker 2:You know, in 2012, we put up the I Love Lucy style chocolate production line was about $150,000. And now they're about $350,000 for the same exact machine. So costs have gone up, so the expansion is becoming a lot more expensive. However, we believe that you know that's the old adage if you build it, they will come. So, had we stayed at the same size as we are today in 2012, we would have been saying no to 60% of our 70% of our customers.
Speaker 2:But I just believe that you know we have this model to keep growing. It's expensive, but you know, one day we'll probably be at a point where we're like, okay, I think the infrastructure is caught up where we need to be. But my brother, sister and I, we feel young. We're not as young as we used to be, but we feel young and we get a lot of energy. And so there's a lot of times where we're going in and working weekends and we're working Saturdays or early nights Can you talk today Late nights and early mornings to get orders done and we have to get creative and kind of juggle the schedule. But you know, we just we love what we're doing so much I hate, I hate saying no, so we just try to make it work.
Speaker 1:I get that it is so hard to say no. And one thing you said earlier really resonated with me it's not the first order, you know, and you know it's the second order and making sure you can fulfill that second order and really good advice I remember my stepdad told me, with buying a house, keep on updating, because you don't ever want to get to a point where you want to sell and then your house is 15 years old and you've done nothing to it and it catches up with you and if you want growth, if you want big sales, you have to invest. And for me and my company, that's what we've done and it's been great, so we can handle what comes, you know, down the road. So, as one thing you also mentioned earlier was, they didn't have social media. So I really I was checking out some of your reels and TikToks. So how are you guys embracing social media with your company?
Speaker 2:That's such a great question and that the concept changes every once in a while. Sometimes what we like to do, you know, I would say the before was position products on social media to the season. So focus on, like, our heart boxes, and we really have gone to a couple different channels. Now is when we're working with more influencers to really try to, you know, tell the story of more who we are and get the brand out there, because not only just to it. You know, like bissinger's and chocolate chocolate, chocolate does not need to be for the older generation, like the, what we're seeing is that like, for example, the decorated mints that you saw that you have that in that box. I'll anecdotally say this 10 years ago the hand decorated mints were what your grandma bought and it was for like the 60 and up crowd. That's what they were made for. They are coming. Hand decorated mints and the hand decorated cookies are like a millennial thing now, like it's the. You know it skipped a generation like skip the baby boomers, but now which we actually joking. We had a lot of baby boomers that buy like, but it went from grandmas and I think because they would buy for their grandkids and now their grandkids are, you know, buying visitors now and that's what they're coming in. They're buying handated mints and cookies and it was like so which were we engaged in telling that story?
Speaker 2:The other thing we really like to use for social media and we're trying to get better at it is to show the craft of the product, so kind of those focused.
Speaker 2:You know, we right now one of the products for for valentine's day is our salted caramel hearts, and so it's. You know, you take that bissinger's caramel that goes back to, you know, hundreds of years. That was literally the same caramel recipe at the Palace of Versailles. We formed them into the heart, into the shape of a heart instead of a square, and then, you know, in a row, milk chocolate, but the pink salt that goes on top is hand sprinkled, every single one in a row that goes down. So just, we had a you know shot the other day just focusing on that, because I think that the people can appreciate consuming the product so much more when they see that, and I think that the factory tours that we give, when we give them for free, because to us it's so important for the consumer to see that, and so we're trying to use kind of like that angle for social media. So a lot of closeups of of of how we're decorating and crafting and acting and making the product.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I'm fascinated. I mean I love I get the opportunity to go to different factories and see how things are made and it is just fascinating. And so, and it I mean TikTok and all the social platforms are just changing everything. I love that you're embracing influencers so you just really have no pun intended, like the recipe for success that I think you know can help myself. As you know, I've been an entrepreneur for 10 years and you know, for people out there that have, you know, new entrepreneurs and people that are like, hey, I've got to catch up, you know, I've got to engage, you know, and with the change and get involved. So I have really enjoyed getting to know you a little bit better and your business. And again, I love chocolate and and I think everybody should go out and buy Bissinger's chocolate. We will link this and don't wait too late. You know, order your chocolate now for your sweetie, but while I eat this chocolate, I'm just curious. I can't let you go without telling us a confession.
Speaker 2:I have a confession and you know so the number one product that we make globally, both our brands, is salt and caramels, and it is my least favorite product. So I absolutely love our caramels, but I would just prefer to have and we do put salt in the caramel too, but, um, I always if I get a sea salt caramel, I brush the salt off and um, just, and I prefer the classic vanilla caramel. But sea salt caramel's number one thing we make and it's my least favorite thing, but I love, like salty foods, like I love salt on my french fries, so it's a, it's a, it's the weirdest thing ever you just don't mix, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's what probably encourages you to innovate and you, you know, make different things so well. Thank you so much for joining me. I've really, really enjoyed our discussion. Again, we will put the link to where everyone can order these chocolates and even if it's past Valentine's that you're listening to it, that's okay. Surprise a friend one day with some chocolates from Bissinger. So, thank you so much and we'll catch you next time. Thank you so much for having me. For more inspiration, follow our social media at W3Cells. Please like, comment and subscribe. You know all the things we would love to connect with you.