Building a Culture of Learning - Michael Wolfe Part 2

What does it really mean to create a culture of learning?

In Part 2 of my conversation with Michael Wolfe, Director of Learning & Development at SEFA, we move beyond training programs and explore how organizations create environments where people continue to grow long after onboarding.

We discuss the balance between formal training and on-the-job learning, why leaders should expect mistakes as part of the process, and how creating a safe environment for questions and curiosity leads to stronger teams. We also tackle the mindset that "time is money" and whether investing in employee development is worth taking people out of the field.

If you're a leader, manager, or business owner, this episode will challenge the way you think about developing people—and why building a learning culture isn't just good for employees, it's good for the bottom line.

In this episode, we discuss:

• What a culture of learning really looks like
  
  
• Why learning doesn't end after onboarding
  
  
• Formal training vs. on-the-job learning
  
  
• Creating an environment where people feel safe asking questions
  
  
• Why mistakes are part of the learning process
  
  
• Balancing productivity with investing in development
  
  
• How continuous learning impacts business performance

Transcript

Welcome And Part Two Setup

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Confessions Beyond the Food. I'm your host, Nancy Redwind. Let's dig in and get inspired. Welcome back to Confessions Beyond the Food. In part two of my conversation with Michael Wolfe from CIFA, we're talking about what it really means to build a culture of learning. We dive into why learning shouldn't stop after onboarding, how to balance formal training and on-the-job experience, and why creating an environment where people can ask questions and even make mistakes is one of the best investments a leader can make. Let's dig in. Hi guys, welcome back to Confessions Beyond the Food. And today I have Michael Wolf back in the house. Yay.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

That's it. You have nobody to blame but yourself for that, Nancy. Yeah, for better or worse, here we are.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Yeah, I like to inflict hard things. Just kidding. So if you didn't watch part one, definitely go check it out. We talked about why training isn't just about transferring knowledge. Today, we want to go a little step further in how to actually build an organization that learning is part of their culture. So that's what we're gonna talk about. That's where we're gonna go.

What A Learning Culture Means

SPEAKER_01 1:20

So, Michael, what is a culture of learning?

SPEAKER_00 1:24

I was gonna ask you that. When you started talking about how we build an organization where learning is a part of that, as a leader, when when you hear that phrase, and I will admit I haven't listened to all of your previous episodes. So if culture of learning has come up before, that would be helpful too. What what does your audience think it means? What do you, what do you feel like it means, whether it's at your organization or other organizations? What does that mean to you? And we'll we'll springboard from there.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

I think that I mean, I don't think I've ever defined it as a learning culture.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Yeah, isn't that interesting? Like, oh, Michael, what do you mean by a culture of learning? Well, what do you mean? I don't know, what do you mean? I mean, this this could be a really, really boring podcast if we spend the whole time just just volleying back and forth on, well, what do neither of us actually know what it means. So what when when when you said it, what came to mind or what what are some things that you feel like are a part of a culture of learning that we can talk about how to build towards?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

I think that, I mean, I actually just had training with my team this morning. And one thing we talked about is you're never gonna be perfect. And, you know, you always, I would rather you ask questions and be curious than be per then try to be perfect because perfection is not gonna happen. And over time, you know, it training just doesn't happen at W3 from the jump. Like we are constantly training. We actually do weekly training. And I think that training happens everywhere we go. I mean, by asking questions with your customers and whether it be your customers or product knowledge or how to handle certain situations. These are all teachable moments, and you know, that's how I view it.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

So so a couple of things that you said there. I mean, let's let's maybe break that down a little bit or or think think about what we then really mean by a culture of learning. So, firstly, you said, okay, we just did some training this morning, but at the same time, just because you're not running a class or a course or someone's taking a module online, that doesn't mean they're not learning, right? So they're learning all the time. So when we talk about a culture of learning, I'm hearing you say, oh, it's not just about these sort of, I don't know, formal moments where someone's taking a course, right? It this is it it's a it's an attitude that's pervasive, right? So when we talk about that, I is is it is it fair to think about it, I don't know, maybe not as a culture of learning, but more of like a developmental mindset, like that I'm always I'm always trying to improve how I do what I do. I'm trying to figure out how to do something new, or I'm doing something a certain way and I could do it better. So when we say culture of learning, are we just are we just talking about continual improv continuous is it continuous or continual? Continual improvement, is that what we're talking about here?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

I think so. Okay, I'm I think developmental is a great word.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Okay. I mean listen, it we started with a question that that neither of us really had. We both admitted, I'm not exactly sure. And I mean, I think that's an in I think firstly, it's important to start with what do we mean by that? Because otherwise we're just we could be completely barking up a wrong tree. Like what are we what are we talking about? Okay, so there's something about a focus on on development. And you also talked about the fact that every every time you do something, it's an opportunity to learn, right? Because we're we're naturally trying to get better. We're not we have some goal, we're trying to achieve, we're trying to accomplish some task. And depending on how it went, I can even if it went well, you can probably learn from your success too, right? Well, what did I what did I do that I want to repeat that I would prefer to remember, yeah, right note to self the next time I do that. I want to do the same thing. I want to do that again the same way. Or in a certain situation, I've got I've got a plan, I've got something that works. Okay.

Mistakes, Fear, And Trust

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Then you also somewhere in there, you also talked about like mistakes. So when we talk about a culture of learning, which we're now talking about sort of something developmentally focused, what does failure have to when you talk about errors or making mistakes, or failing is too strong of a word? Don't like we're not, this is not school where we're getting an F. Just making making a mistake or doing something in a way that I could have done it better. So what is when you said that, what does that have to do with learning to you? Why why are mistakes why did mistakes why did mistakes come?

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Learning from your mistakes, you know?

SPEAKER_00 6:02

I don't I don't know. I've I've I've heard people say learning enters through bleeding wounds. We've all gone to the same school, the school of hard knocks. So there's something to the fact that we react to in particular to the catastrophic ones, right? If so, if I asked you what was names name something, you know, whether it was in this in this life or a past life, and I name something, you know, something that that went sideways. In general, people remember that. Like, oh yeah, let me, or if I say, tell me a time when something went wrong in this kind of circumstance, people are able to answer that relatively quickly. Those things stick with you. So now, while we prefer that people not make catastrophic errors on the job, right? Because it has an impact on the business. So we'd like that to not happen. It does. And and even when we're not making catastrophic errors, we're making tiny little things, you know, tiny little missteps that we can that we can course correct, that we can figure out on the fly. To me, that that kind of approach where where we openly admit, you know what, this is this is gonna go wrong. Uh hopefully not to the point where it does permanent damage that we can't undo. But in some way, shape, or form, this thing that we're about to do as a business or this task that I've about to assign you, yep, it's gonna go wrong. And what we're gonna do is we're going to make that assumption and then adjust from there and learn from there and move forward from there. That to me sounds like a certain mentality. And so does I don't, I don't know. Does does everyone does everyone have that mentality? Do the leaders that you've worked for in the past have that mentality? Does everyone in your organization have that mentality? The idea that a developmental mindset, I don't know if it starts with that concept of it's good, it's gonna go wrong, like it's we're gonna do things that we could always do better. That is that something that's universal? Do you see it everywhere? I don't. I'm curious what you've seen.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

I definitely don't see it everywhere, and that's why one of the big reasons why, you know, I've created a culture that people that that they're gonna make mistakes, our factories are gonna make mistakes, like deadlines are gonna be missed. You can't live in fear of something wrong going wrong because lots of things can go wrong, and it is about reacting and and and jumping on it and you know, not being afraid to come to me or any of our other leadership team to solve the problem together. So there's definitely been instances in my life, I think, where I had leadership that was everything was fear-based. And and so the other thing too is, you know, we kind of touched on it before is like if you have somebody, if you've been in the industry 25 years like I have, you know, my mistakes look really different than somebody that started two days ago, you know, that just started in the industry.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

We certainly hope so.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Yeah. Well, yes. I mean, that was and you know, I also flourished, I think, under several of my bosses that were that allowed that didn't, you know, said, this is gonna happen. This has happened to me, this is gonna happen to you, and you're gonna make mistakes. Just learn from it. And that was one thing that after I made a couple of mistakes early on in my career, my boss said to me, She said, You know what, Nancy, I don't have to worry about you because when you make a mistake, you're so hard on yourself, you know, and you won't let it happen again. And so I mean, it I think it is like how the you know, how what leadership does and then how the employee responds, you know, to mistakes. Are they gonna continue via repeat defend or what is that a repeat?

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Repeat offend, yeah, offender, as opposed to a repeat defender, which is something else entirely. Um so and and of course, for the folks who are you know their own worst critic or their own their own worst enemy, right? That's that's obviously you gotta you have to manage that too, right? You don't want people to get in their own way. I have I've I people have people will tell you I say this all the time, and I'm still waiting for a counting counterexample. Every strength, and I literally mean every strength becomes a weakness if it's taken too far. So someone who is hard on themselves, that's good to a point. Everything is good. Strengths are all good to a point until they're not, and then they every strength becomes a problem in some way, shape, or form. So the the I'm hard of hard on myself, if you take that to the extreme, it becomes it becomes paralyzing, it becomes it becomes self-defeating. So now, so bar barring the extreme, the idea that you have somebody who's got a mentality of I I correct my I correct my own missteps, right? I'm I'm always looking for things I could be doing better. Again, even that, you can't don't always be looking because you've always looked, then you then you completely forget how much you succeed, and that's not healthy either. So I presume then, even with the person who's always looking for, well, we'll get back to the other point in a second. When I'm always looking for success, someone says to you, I don't have to worry about you, or you tell your team now, hey, I don't have to worry about you because I always know that you're looking for this kind of thing. Now, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't ask, right? So what'd you how'd that go? What can we do better? Share with each other, right? So just because they're done doing it doesn't mean you can just say completely hands-off, disengage, they've got this, if I'm understanding you correctly.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Yeah, I mean, I think for sure that extreme is is is a hard one, I mean, is to live in. And for as an employer, I think, you know, it's negligent to assume people know, you know, once they've made a mistake, that they're never going to make that again, that not to check in, not to go back and inspect and and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

And it's good from a sharing perspective, too, right? Because hopefully, again, we've all been to the school of hard knocks, and we talked during the last episode. Go back and listen to it if you haven't already. We we talked about what makes good learners better learners better than others. We didn't talk about a lot of things that make good learners good. One of them, one of them, beyond what we talked about last time, is they reflect. They from they don't just learn from being trained, they learn from their own experiences and they're looking for ways to improve and they're constantly evaluating without being paralyzing. So good learners do that. Good learners also learn from the mistakes of others so that they don't have to keep going to the same school of hard knocks, right? You're right. People could make the same mistake more than once. It happens. It's it's understandable to a point. Eventually you start to wonder, right? If someone keeps making the same mistake, you you do start to question, are you not remembering how this happened last time? What's what's not quite landing with that particular individual in that particular situation when you've seen it happen a couple of times, the team has seen it happen a couple of times. How come they're not catching on? So you do start to you do start to get worried after you know if it if it's repeated. But good learners do somehow observe others doing something that they could improve upon, and mercifully, they don't have to say make the same mistake for themselves. They can they figure it out from someone else's experience. Okay, so now wait, this whole start this whole thing started with how do you build a a culture of learning? We said, okay, maybe it's more about const thinking about how one develops oneself. You mentioned good, you know, your team is always looking for ways to improve. And that means you have to, what what's the buzzword? You have to embrace failure. Whatever we call that. But when you said how do you build a culture of learning, that's that's the first thing that came to mind for me was you have to be willing, not just for your individuals to make mistakes, but the organization as a whole, you have to be willing to the flip side, you take risks, right? You you you expect, you expect that things may not go the way you planned, you try things, you and you you learn quickly, right? So you don't you don't throw good money after bad as an organization, but you're willing to accept that things aren't going to go the way that you expect them to go, and you not only accept it, you embrace it. Um, Nancy, do your people on your team come to you with, I have a problem I need help with, here's my possible solutions. Uh-oh, I think I think something has gone wrong. I need your I need an assist here to kind of figure out how to how to troubleshoot shoot this. Does your team come to you with those kinds of things proactively?

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yeah, I would say they do. I mean, I think people that first start with our organization that don't know me as well may be nervous to ask those questions. But I think over time, I mean, you know, whether it's me or Kevin, our VP of sales, our team does a really good job of asking questions, you know, asking other teammates, asking us like, hey, I need you to jump in so that they know to trust me. I mean, trust works both ways, you know, that I'm gonna help them and that I trust, you know, we're it's a trust game. It I think.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Well, which is a good, which is a good sign, right? Because you can you can say that you foster this kind of environment where people are focusing on development and therefore they're willing to make mistakes and therefore they're, you know, you're embra embracing, embracing failure. But if people aren't openly asking for help or openly admitting that something has gone wrong, that that does start to beg some questions about, well, how how comfortable are they really? And how comfortable is that environment? What kind of culture is it if you feel like you're embracing it and yet you're not seeing the kind of behavior from your team that would indicate that they are actually embracing it? Okay. So I guess we probably, I mean, we could just stop here and say we've answered the question. How do you how do you build a culture of learning? You you embra you embrace failure, and we could be done, we could wash our hands clean. Okay, but hold

Why Formal Training Still Matters

SPEAKER_00 16:15

on a second. We've talked about how there's this constant cycle of people learning from experience all the time. Okay, so where does it kind of weird from a coming from a learning guy, but where does formal training, where does like formal like a learning event or a lunch and learn or time that is focused on development training? Where does that all fit in? If everyone's learning it on the job, why do we need training at all? So, Nancy, when do you act when do you use training? Training in the form in the formal sense of we're gonna take some time here to now again we we talked last time about okay, it's not technically transferring knowledge, but okay, teaching them something or giving them an opportunity to learn a new skill or get better at a task. When why do you why why do that at all if there's so much learning going on on the job?

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Yeah, so I make it really simple. I bring everybody in for an afternoon, tell them all they need to know, and they they go.

unknown 17:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Just kidding, just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Sound sounds sounds like a fantastic use of their time.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

It is.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

I mean yours too.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Yes. I mean, yes, you know, you as a leader, you really, I mean, time is your worst enemy, you know, and time is money as they say. Yeah, if we're not out selling, we're not closing, that sort of thing. But I've learned, especially, I'm a three, I'm an achiever. Like if I'm behind a computer, I feel like I'm failing, you know? And so, and several of my team members are the same way. But yeah, I think it's really important to, oh my gosh, I just lost my train of thought.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Well, when okay, so we can back up here. By the way, don't you love that this is a podcast where you're I love that I'm asking all the questions? It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

I do too. And I just made a mistake. So I'm just I'm just your little case study here.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Well, we'll come that's that's a different conversation entirely, Nancy. The the question I asked was so if if people are so focused on their development so much of the time on the job, then why take that, why take a time out to do some kind of formal, formal thing that that is not the thing you describe, but some kind of formal time outside of outside of the context of the thing.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

So it's hard to make the investment of bringing people out of the field and spending time with them and training. Quick pause to thank W3Sales for sponsoring this episode. If you're looking for inspiration and food service, from the details that shape the space to the products that elevate the experience, W3Sales new online catalog is built just for that. Explore and shop anytime at W3SalesOnline.com. It's also so we do several things. Like we'll bring somebody in, kind of do an orientation, formal training. But really, that's not where we get into product training or sales training. It's just kind of a broad brush stroke. This is what we do. Okay, go practice. And then we bring them back in and give them more training. Okay, go out and practice. And so it's it is based on each individual because everybody coming into my company has come in at different with different experience, past experiences. So it just depends on the employee. But that is something that we find very, very important. It's the best investment you can make and also product training. You know, if your factories are ever offering that, to send them to training, to get that hands-on experience. There's nothing better than an employee coming back and being like, oh my gosh, that was so awesome because they're gonna share that experience with everybody else and they're gonna feel confident about it. So I think that product training, factory training, internal training. I mean, we we spend every Friday morning. It's every single Friday morning. And whether it's like we do a sales topic, you know, or you know, a product knowledge, we think that it is definitely continual, but you do have to be intentional. You do have to have some type of formal training program.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

So I'm gonna ask sort of a devil's advocate, dumb kind of kind of a dumb question. Why? If good learners are always observing their own behavior and adjusting and learning for their mistakes and improving, and you want them in the and you want them you know in the field as a salesperson or doing whatever, doing whatever their job is, they're doing it and they're learning on the go and they're really good at it. And you're you have this, you have an open, you have a culture that truly embraces the idea that, hey, we're always learning, it's okay. So so let's it let's insist, and yet we still we've got to pull them out. We've got to make them go do this other thing away from their job. Why? Like let's okay, I'm not saying that it isn't true, but why is why is that important? And let me ask it the other way. So why don't you just let them learn on the job? If it's so effective for in a in a in a solid culture with solid people, you got the right people on the bus. Why not just let them try it, learn, adjust, try it, learn, adjust. Sounds sounds effective to me because they're always in the field or doing whatever they're doing. That sounds efficient to me. Why pull them away from that?

SPEAKER_01 21:50

I think that there's a balance in that. I've you know, because we could spend all of our time in training, in product training, just because all the products that we know. And while that's very valuable to learn if you don't have the time to get out there and and practice it in real time, I think that's where the real learning happens, you know, is you you hear this, you know, you you hear about the product, you, you know, you can only understand it to to a certain degree until you get it and get it in front of the customers. But we, you know, so we, I think that, yes, I think there is that on, you know, that ongoing training if somebody's out in the field, if if they're thriving and they're blowing it up, I'm not going to bring them back in for sales training with me. You know, that's not a good use of my time, my time, their time.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Or the or theirs. Now here's the here's the flip side of the of that too. You said, hey, if they're blowing it up, uh I presume you meant that in the good sense of they're blowing it up.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

What if they're blowing it up? That is is that why we bring people in for training? Because there's a risk always that they're going to blow it up. Like they're actually something is going to go catastrophically wrong. Like listen, there's there's no in the food service industry, even though I understand food is very important to people, there are no life and death situations in the okay okay maybe occasionally there are. That's actually I I lied there are life and death situations in the food service industry. There's safety problems all kinds of things can go wrong. So but in general in general most mistakes are recoverable and yet there are some that are not and losing business isn't something you want to do on a regular basis. So okay so some balance right we want people to do the bulk of their learning on the job right that we want them in the field and we want them in a mentality where they're always learning. They're always improving. And coupled with that are these moments where we step aside we arm them with some kind of skills or some kind of practice and say okay let's go go try that but then we're going to come back and we're going to talk about it again or we're going to see that kind of the cycle of I'm going to practice it, I'm going to reflect on it, I'm going to improve on it, I'm going to build up my skills that seems to be that there there's it it probably varies by organization it varies by individual but in general there's some back and forth between being in the field practic doing your job and practicing your skills along with some offline meaning away from the field offline practice offline learning offline training call call that what you will but it's not but it's but it's not with live ammunition where if something goes horribly wrong it impacts the bottom line.

Coaching In The Field

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Yeah I think that I mean honestly in that instance where you're talking about blowing it up in a bad way I mean I think I was just it was you you used the phrase I think that I I think we have to consider the other side. I mean honestly I probably wouldn't bring them in out of the field. I would we would go to them and we would work with them in the territory and go through their day to day if it would benefit, you know, and then that after we observe and can understand where they're having challenges then you know we can either you know help you know pair them up with someone that let them see a good day of from one of our role models, you know, a great you know here's how to handle this. They handle these situations well. But I think a lot of training is like in the car like those are the best moments and I feel like ride alongs and sales managers have really lost an art in the world today because most people you know a lot of salespeople are behind their desk now and because they have to be but I mean we've just lost that hey my manager's going to get in the car and ride with me.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

What happened to what did what happened to the whole like apprenticeship? What what happened to the whole okay what happened to it I'm sure some people are listening are screaming like no there's apprenticeship all the time. In fact kitchens have a pretty strong apprenticeship model right you st you start in this role you do this you do this you're watching you're you're observing the whole time and you start to step up into new roles as you gain proficiency. But it starts with awareness of what the heck is going on and you're you're learning through watching experts. And then when you take over they don't just throw you to the wolves right there you take over but you take over in certain situations and you're being observed I don't I don't know why that same model doesn't apply to well pretty much anything but I mean sales in particular we're not going to throw sales folks out into the into the world without a without arming them with some basic skills and and practice so we so so we avoid the obvious blowups. And then as they're doing it have they have they seen you do it have they seen others do it? Never mind the car ride there, how about the car ride back? So what did you see? How'd that work? Everything everything we're talking about here, all of these ideas sound really good in principle.

Training As A Real Investment

SPEAKER_00 27:05

And yet as a learning professional when I prop when I propose these kinds of things or run formal training which I do both of there there is a pretty common objection which is but in order to do those things I have to take them out of the field. I have to there it costs it costs time and for sales time is money and any in any environment to take someone out for formal training or to guide them or coach them or whatever training activity we're talking about. All of those things take time and so if you measure time as dollars in particular dollars lost if you have to pull someone out to for training then that's a very different mentality than looking at training and a developmental mindset as helping people do their job better, more efficiently, more effectively sure you have to pull somebody out of the field for X number of hours this is how much they sell per minute you can do the do the metrics. So by pulling someone out of the field it costs me X. Yes and it gains you Y and Z and a whole bunch of other things. Not to mention some of the intangible stuff like people feel more engaged and you can look at the stats all over the place about how much more productive an engaged workforce is. So you know if your employees value development opportunities they in theory will give back to you in spades. So we're talking about a a learning culture, a developmental culture where where failure is you know failure is part of the picture so you have to you have to embrace learning from one's mistakes and you have to have a mindset where our training and learning and all these things we do, these are contributing to the bottom line by helping people do their job better, which which covers which it's an investment. So you spend the time to get them to do their job better. The time that they spent away you make that back and more and so the objection to it takes time to develop people yeah it takes time to develop people. What's what's the alternative what's happening to your business and to your people if you're not developing them or they don't have a developmental mindset. To me that that the alternative is not particularly palatable. So we have to come up with ways of getting over that objection and figuring out what it really takes to create that environment where all of these things that we were talking about actually happen.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

No, I think that is I mean a great place to land because I think that is like I think I mentioned it before it is an investment and it's the best investment you can make. And I I take a lot of people outside the industry I hire a lot of new people and it's definitely the road less travel because it is hard. I mean you got to teach them everything. And but if you know I tell my team too because they're being taken away if they have to help somebody I'm like hey we're a team you know what they do affects what you do and in the big scheme of life and how we're structured but what's the phrase hire hire the person teach the skills right you hire the you hire the mentality that you the the the attitude that you can't teach.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

But if you have the right person who's engaged in the right way you can they can pretty much learn anything within within reason. So yeah that that kind of I'm looking for a certain approach I'm looking for a certain just way of being in my people I'll I'll worry about the what that that that can be that can be built over time and they'll and they're they're gonna make mistakes just like you did. We talked about that in the in in the first one right in our in our first episode in our first conversation no matter even if you bring in an a semi you know a a moderately experienced person or even expert to some extent there are things that they're still going to have to learn and they won't know it right away and that's okay. It's going to it's going to take time no matter what um making making that investment tends to be worth it.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

100. If I I I like I wish I had there was a react button it says 100 that everybody could hear and see. So I love the I I love training I'm I've learned a lot I mean in these past two podcasts myself. So thank you so much for imparting your wisdom and I I just find it something we can all challenge ourselves so as no one's like you said no one's perfect. We can all get better at this and so don't don't like die of shame people and I'm speaking to the choir here I'm like oh man I did this totally wrong but and we can just learn from I think it's again just being humble enough to be like I could always learn more and do better.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

So that's what we that's where this starts right we said that's where it starts. It starts you know yeah being willing to accept the fact that it's taken you a while to get where you are and there there were a lot of mistakes on the way and a lot of learning opportunities. Yeah it start it starts there. You accept it for yourself and then you realize that yep the whole the whole organization is going to behave that way. And that's all right. I I am curious how many people are you know screaming from the rooftops or agreeing or disagreeing with things. I I exist on LinkedIn. So if people are curious or people want to continue the conversation I it's I can be found. So I I'm very much I'm very much interested because of the way I think about training and learning which is I can't it isn't about imparting wisdom. You know maybe I'll say something that resonates and and triggers something in somebody that's awesome but it's about creating an opportunity to learn which usually means it's a two-way conversation just like this has been so I definitely would it would I'd be curious what people out there who are listening are thinking and what questions it raises and what challenges it raises. That would be a lot of fun too.

Keep The Conversation Going

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Okay well we're gonna challenge our audience on that so yeah the questions out there we're gonna link Michael on his LinkedIn so you can find him and start the conversation. So but before we end I have to have your confession I'm really excited about this.

Confession: A Puppy From Hawaii

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Oh right because I I teased it last time so when when we first met right when when Tracy introduced us um I think we were we were chatting and I think your did your dog make an appearance during I think the dog the dog the the Holman the Holmanashrie came out and and something you may have asked me or I get the question all the time. So I'm a I own a dog I've I'm on my now third golden retriever. We have had one at a time for as long as I can remember and people always ask usually the first question is oh is it a rescue which I think you may have actually asked the same question. And and I always I'm I'm always so ashamed of my answer. And so the the confession relates to that my my golden retriever's name is Finn. Finn is is I think the furthest thing from a rescue that he could be it's it's the answer is so embarrassing. Because once I say no he's not a rescue he's a you know he was he was from a breeder oh did you get him from around here no no I did not so I'm in I'm in the Chicago area confession Finn was bred in Hawaii which people then give me a really funny look you're like you couldn't find a golden retriever they're pretty common breed you couldn't find a golden retriever like closer somewhere but somewhere between Chicago and Oahu like the the what's the yeah I don't how much time do we have Nancy it's really it really is it's a it's a one embarrassment after another but the the the the semi short version of the story is somewhere in there my my wife is kind of goo go gaga on crazy she's a real dog lover and so she spends a lot of time you'll scrolling on social media through like videos and pictures of dogs that started to include a breeder who she fell in love with um you're like oh a breeder in Hawaii like nope not a breeder in Hawaii a breeder in California tried to get on their waiting list actually this is like a book author now so very popular semi well known in the dog world what have you and she reaches out tries to get on the waiting list for a dog and at that point the breeder that breeder said no in fact the waiting list is so long I'm not adding names so my wife was semi you know disappointed in this fast forward to after we we lose our second golden shortly after that we hear from this breeder saying I know of some available dogs. Now listen to the phrasing not I have dogs available I know of available dogs. So as we're contemplating this which was a really good time because we just lost a dog so this is like okay how do you how do you get over that grief? You get another dog. It's always been our plan at least as we're negotiating this and saying let's get on the waiting list and we put a deposit down to hold our spot on the waiting list somewhere in there we ask where's the breeder and so my wife works for an airline so it's not as completely nuts as it is as it sounds but wait it gets funnier as we go. That's when we discover and we and the fact that the name of the breeder was Island Companions should have been a clue but it wasn't and so we're like oh okay no problem we'll go get yeah we'll fly we'll go get the dog and we'll bring it and we'll bring it back oh wait there's more anybody in the audience who has had the good fortune of being to Hawaii or is aware they tend to be pretty restrictive about living things going on and off the island. As it turns out there's only like one or two airlines that fly dogs in and in and out of Hawaii and it's not the one that my wife works for. So what has now turned the you see this again it's a comedy of errors it really like you could have just rescued a golden from a local shelter like this this would have worked and and and all of the and and I and I have to say I am so appreciative of all the people who do that. It's just not how we go about this. So I appreciate everyone who does it but we did the exact opposite and so here we are not only never mind the whole flight benefits not quite working as well as we thought not only are we flying there and back now we're connecting so let me tell you you're very popular when you are walking through the San Francisco airport holding an eight week old golden retriever puppy you get a lot of you get a lot of goo goose gagas and cute looks but they're also pretty cumbersome let me say having now walked halfway around the San Francisco airport holding a you know 11 pound golden retriever puppy suffice it to say now we have we have Finn back home but it's just it's just an embarrassing story. It really is that there's so many other options out there and that is how we ended up with the dog that we have now I it I'm semi-ashamed of the story and how it all came to be but here we are we have a lovely now 15 month old golden in the house who yes is from Hawaii. That's amazing he's a special dog I mean you've been blessed with special he's special that's what they said actually oh he's special oh yeah he's special all right there's a lot going on there but nonetheless it's I I appreciate everyone who does rescue and we love it and it just has never been something we've done. So but the needle swung completely the other way never mind how about a local breeder oh no let's let's fly nine hours and go yeah I think we should just be like I love golden so much I went and got Hawaii we flew nine hours to go get a golden that I it's yeah but it's maybe that might be true Nancy but it's still an embarrassing story to tell like for all of the and I mean we haven't even talked like somewhere in there like how much they pay for that dog like we're not gonna even talk about that because somewhere in there was a flight involved like so wait like just I'm just let just gotta let they have to let that part of the story go. It is what it is we love love the dog great dog but how we got him is is a pretty significant departure from the norm. So I admit it we flew to Hawaii today. It's out there it's out there you've let it go so when people reach out to me you can ask about the you can ask about Finn also.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Awesome well you'll have to send me a picture so there you go thank you so much I I just loved our conversations and so I really appreciate you joining.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

I appreciate it and thank you for playing along I got I got to ask all the questions this time I know I was in the hot seat.

Closing And Stay Connected

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Turnabouts fair play all right well thanks so much and thanks guys for joining us and if you haven't watched Michael's first episode part one check it out see you soon thanks Nancy for more inspiration follow our social media at W3Cells please like comment and subscribe you know all the things we would love to connect with you.