Finding Your Way Home; The Secrets to True Alignment

Award-Winning Speaker Jessen James on Finding Your Inner Compass

• Anthea Bell

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Gorgeous listeners,

Prepare to be inspired, challenged, and uplifted in this week’s episode of Finding Your Way Home. My guest, Jessen James, is a powerhouse - an award-winning international speaker, entrepreneur and business mentor who combines a razor-sharp mind with a profoundly empathetic heart. Beyond the accolades and success, Jessen’s journey is one of courage, transformation and a deep commitment to helping others step into their power.

In this conversation, Jessen shares his personal philosophy on what it means to truly come home to yourself - aligning with your values, owning your purpose and breaking free from limiting beliefs. Drawing on his background in psychiatric nursing, behavioural psychology, and a thriving career in business mentorship, he reveals the tools and insights that can help us overcome fear, reconnect with our inner compass and create a life of purpose and fulfilment.

In this episode, Jessen and I explore:

  • How to identify and unlearn the limiting beliefs and triggers holding you back
  • The power of aligning your business and personal life with your core values
  • Jessen’s unique approach to influence and selling with integrity
  • Why discomfort is a necessary part of growth and transformation
  • The importance of self-awareness, connection, and living authentically
  • Jessen’s energy and wisdom are undeniable and his message is a rallying cry for all of us to stop playing small and start stepping into our true potential. This episode is packed with practical insights, heartfelt reflections and the kind of inspiration that will leave you ready to take on the world

For More on Jessen

  • Follow Jessen on Instagram at @jessenjames_official and check out his courses and programs designed to help you grow your business, mindset, and influence.
  • To start your journey, access his free resource www.7dayspeaker.com

Stay connected with the podcast

  • Follow me on Instagram @ab_embodiment or visit our website for updates, guest insights, and behind-the-scenes magic.

And to explore working together more deeply

Sending love and the encouragement to embrace your own power, wherever this finds you.

Anthea x

understand that life doesn't take you where you want to go. It takes you where you need to go. And there's some beauty in the challenges that you might be facing right now. it's not the end of the road, it's a bend in the road. So rather than go to default setting of self and why has this happened to me? I'm a bad person. This is this, this is that, whatever it is. Is I want to encourage everybody that next time something doesn't go your way or perhaps something's not going your way right now It is to turn into it rather than away from it and seek meaning and you'll find there's actual beauty in it where you want to go is to a place of comfort and where you need to go Is to a place of discomfort because that's where the growth happens. Without that level of discomfort, you wouldn't become the person that you are today.

Anthea:

welcome to Finding Your Way Home, the secrets to true alignment. I'm your host, Anthea Bell, movement teacher, mind body coach, and lifelong spiritual seeker. This is a podcast about the depth, weight, and profound healing power of connection between mind and body, spirit and soul, and from one human to another. Together with an incredible range of inspiring guests, we'll explore just what connection and alignment mean. How to get there in a world full of the temptation to conform, and how great challenge ultimately can lead to life changing transformation. Get ready for groundbreaking personal stories, conversational deep dives, and a toolkit of strategies to build not just your inner knowing, but your outer world. Let's dive in.

Gorgeous listeners, I cannot wait to introduce you to today's speaker, a man who has inspired thousands of people across the globe to elevate themselves to their highest level of professional potential. And before I do, I wanted to give you a little cheeky taste of what is to come for this podcast and our incredible growing community in 2025. We are releasing this episode on New Year's Day, which for many is a moment signifying a real shift, from what was for many a pretty challenging graft of a year, and really opening into the possibility of what's to come. And whether you're feeling that deeply Or you're welcoming January as this continued time to incubate and plan. Please know that my thoughts, my wishes, my deepest prayers are with you. And we're going to be making sure that we offer you all the possible opportunities to really deepen your journey inwards over the course of the year to come. The sense of possibility could not be more the case over here at Finding Your Way Home HQ, we have been utterly blown away by the response that we've received to these episodes. We're six seasons in, thousands of listeners, and the tender stories of personal challenge That we have shared on air have been so profoundly touching. And I know how much they've meant to all of you listening in your various locations across the world. and I want to just take a moment to really thank you for the investment that you make in tuning in, in sharing your feedback, in sharing these episodes with others. It means the utter world to me. I did not imagine two years ago when the idea of this first emerged that we would be where we are now. And we're just getting started. So let me give you a little taste of what's to come. We have an expanded team of people supporting me in this incredible project. We're releasing a dedicated YouTube channel, which is going to feature not only recorded episodes, but episodes that I am now interviewing people for live. We'll be releasing on a new two times weekly schedule, which is going to offer you gorgeous opportunities for deep dive interviews with new speakers, as well as some little shorts, episodes and clips from the archive that have not yet been released or not been often had. We'll be continuing to expand the incredible guests that we bring onto the show from world leading experts in the holistic field to increasingly public figures who are very bravely navigating the heady task of personal growth right in the limelight of their careers. Come summer we will also be launching the second round of an incredible facilitator program. This is really bringing together all of my passion and expertise in the world of mind, body and spirituality. Particularly tailored for those working as coaches, teachers, body workers, anyone that has an existing craft, which they would love to evolve to a new level of untapped mastery, really transforming their ability to hold space, to offer their clients a whole new set of skills, to regulate, to expand, to understand their consciousness and their emotions, to really create a profound level of change in those that they support. We'll be inviting people into this by application only so if you want to find out a little bit more, we're not publicly open yet, but you can send us an email through the link in the show notes, or you can drop me a message on social and we'll set up a personal interview with me. And we'll offer you an early bird rate to enter the program, which will be significantly reduced from the public figure that will go live in February. The final little juicy detail. And I just couldn't resist letting you guys know come the end of August, I am bringing forth a desire that I have had for years which is to host a a truly intimate private retreat overseas for a group of very select women. We're going to have a maximum number of 12 people in this incredible heart expanding, ceremonially enriched experience. It's going to be a truly magical opportunity for personal transformation and akin to the training we are doing this one by application only. So if something in you is bubbling please just send me a message and we will sit down together and see if this is the next opportunity for you to expand into. So with all that being said, please now sit back, relax, and rest into the most nourishing of episodes with one of the world's leading experts on finding your centre, establishing your stage voice in front of an audience of thousands. Without further ado, allow me to introduce you to the wonder, the glamour, and the gentle wisdom of Mr. Jessen James. Oh, good morning, you gorgeous, gorgeous listeners. I cannot wait for this interview. Jessen James, for those of you that don't know him, is a hell of a figure. He is a seven figure earning entrepreneur. He's a business mentor. He's an eight times international award-winning speaker. I have personally been in the pews listening to him preaching his message. And I can tell you, I had full body goosebumps for about 60 minutes beyond the success, we're really going to be hearing from someone who not only walks his talk, but has a profound personal story. And from my sense of it, quite a deep, emotional, psychological background to the work that he does. Because his ethic, much more than earning money, is to help people. people to help them craft the lives that they are ready for, capable of, and to really allow them to see the conditioning and the, the constraints that are holding them back. So without any further ado, I'm going to open the floor to Mr. Jessen James. Hello, Andrea. Thank you for that beautiful introduction. Thank you so much. I'm so honored to be here. Thank you for having me on. Oh, it's such a pleasure. Um, there are many, many questions sitting in front of me, but I'm actually going to start by asking you your interpretation of the title of this podcast. So like we were talking about before we came onto the air, this broadcast is titled Finding Your Way Home. And I'm wondering what that word home brings up for you. And even notwithstanding the incredible success that you've achieved, how you orient back to home in the light of that visibility and that success. Yeah. First of all, I absolutely love the title of the podcast. And the reason for that for me is, is linked to my answer, basically. And I think we spend a lot of our time figuring out everybody else that we don't even know who we are anymore. And we spend so much time searching for happiness externally when, as you and I both know, it comes from within. So when I hear words like. Finding your way home. what that means for me is, is, is knowing your inner compass, what guides you. And unfortunately, as we all know, there's that saying that says, if you don't know what you stand for, you fall for something else. And I think we spend a lot of our times falling for other things because we, we actually don't know what's guiding us. So for me, finding your way home is, is stepping into your real self, your authentic self. Now, you might be familiar, and a lot of your listeners might be familiar with the term imposter syndrome. A lot of us feel like we're on a journey, but we haven't quite made it yet. So we feel like we're being fake or we're being, you know, someone might call us out or whatever it is. What I often say to people is the real imposter actually isn't. The real imposter is the person you're being at the moment. The person who refuses to speak their mind. The person that pleases everybody. The person that doesn't want to live in the way that they want to live. The person that doesn't show up authentically in certain situations. That's the real imposter. And that links back to people don't know what, what their home is. So. You also mentioned success. So, so for me, my definition of success isn't linked to how many zeros you've got in your bank. My definition of success for me personally, and this is part of me finding my way home, is, is doing what I want, however I want, with whoever I want. Now, obviously there are some restrictions on that. For example, I can't just go and pull my kids out of school randomly and take them away somewhere. Well, I can, but you'll probably get fined for that. But my point is, is there are restrictions on that. However, I like to show up under my terms. I'm also very respectful of other people's terms. So, for example, this is your podcast, this is your space. I would never in a million years disrespect you or your space or your audience. However, if it didn't align with me, I wouldn't show up. And that's because I know what I stand for, but a lot of times we're saying yes to so many things and yes to so many people and then having to back out later on because we didn't actually take time to take stock of who we are and what we stand for. So, so coming home really means. Who are you and what do you stand for? What's important to you? So, so I love the title of this podcast and I think more people should take time out to figure out what does home mean for them. Because once you know what your inner compass is, that is your navigation through life. And unfortunately, many of us are getting to the end of our lives and realizing that we were climbing a ladder. Only to discover we ended up on the wrong roof. And that for me is, is, it's too late. It's too late then, you know. So take stock of it now. Learn from people like yourself. Learn from people like your previous guests. Learn from people who are out there speaking their mind and being their true selves, you know. So I'd encourage everyone listening to this to find out what home means to you, no matter how crazy it sounds. And don't be afraid to speak your mind about it. Gosh, there's so much in that and the, the theme that really comes across underneath what you're describing is the self valuing piece. I entered into some really incredible, um, recovery rooms about 10, 15 years ago, and I remember being told at the time what the true definition of humility was, and that it was, I'm neither any better than, nor am I any worse than. It's a radical leveller. Yes. And I find so often when people are not willing to identify that place of home, or dare I say their passions and their desires, especially in a British culture, a lot of that is coming back to, I feel that I'm less than, and yet I need to do more than. And as you say, it's that imposter syndrome thing, which makes us constantly seek self soothing, seek to avoid discomfort. Try and identify the threat. We're living on such an adrenal nervous system exciting place. And I know that one of your specialisms, I mean, this was literally what you did for your career before this. You were a psychiatric nurse. Behavioral psychology is an enormous theme for you. I would love it if you could tell us a little bit about that journey. Yeah, it's interesting. Although, although I have a background as a psychiatric nurse, I can't say hand on heart that I 100 percent aligned with psychiatry. And the reason for that is because it's very pharmacological based. It's very, very what's the problem prescribe medication for. And I probably wasn't the best nurse in the sense that I prefer to try and talk to people now that didn't go down too well with me.. However, what I was doing is fighting my inner compass at that point. Which was trying to go with what I was told to do. You go to, you go to school, to university, you study as a nurse, you qualify, you get You get taught to diagnose, you get taught to look out for signs and symptoms and you get taught to administer certain drugs and introduce certain things to restrain and constrain people's behavior. And if that didn't work, with all due respect, in the units that I used to work in, you get physical. You have to physically restrain people. I mean, I've worked in places like Broadmoor and all kinds of stuff and it's awful what goes down. And what we forget is that at the core we're all human beings. I always deep down felt that, why do people behave the way they behave? And how can we help them without sticking a plaster over a bandage? Because, essentially, that's what medication does for a lot of things. It kind of gets rid of symptoms. And if you go to any psychiatric ward in any country, by the way, that administers medication, you will find a lot of people who are just zoned out, numbed out and looking like zombies. And that is because when the medication wears off, all of these things come back, but there's always a trigger to everything. So that led me onto an inquisitive path around psychology. Now, part of my career as a nurse, I ended up managing a ward of 18 females with borderline personality disorder, which for anyone listening and understands that condition is very much behavioral linked. It's not so much something that you prescribe pharma for. And I was flown out to San Diego. I think it was 2007, 2008 to, to go and learn a therapy called dialectical behavioral therapy. And it stems from CBT and things like that or whatever. And what was fascinating about it is that it was very much linked to behavior and triggers. So, for example, some of the ladies might be listening to a certain song that evokes a certain memory, and as a result of that, they would end up thinking about the past and a past event. Excuse me. So, what that meant was, the trigger to that was them listening to the music. So if we get rid of the music, they won't feel like that anymore., I got fascinated. by human behavior. That's not psychiatry, that's psychology. So, on my journey into nursing, and you know, to cut this short because it would end up being here for a long time, I found that after leaving nursing, and that was not by my choice, I was made redundant in the private sector, I went and set up my own care business, I did incredibly well with that, which was great, I fell into coaching and mentoring and I really, really enjoyed it. So I started studying things like NLP, hypnotherapy, timeline therapy, but really psychology based interventions, which led me to understand that there's a trigger behind absolutely everything that we do. All behavior has a trigger. And if we can understand what the triggers are, we can course correct our behavior if it's not serving us. So I guess for people listening to this, if there are things that you do people, please avoid conflict, whatever it is. What's the trigger where's where's that stemmed from? Because you weren't born like that. I mean, children are born fearless. We're only born with two fears, you know, the fear of falling or the fear of loud noises. I mean, if you clap loudly next to a baby, I mean, actually don't do that, the parent will be upset, but if you clap loudly next to a baby, it will jump. Where have all the other fears come from? Fear of abandonment, fear of rejection, fear of conflict. All these things, they're learned behaviors, which presupposes you can unlearn them, but what are the triggers? What makes you feel fearful? What makes you feel like you can't come home? What makes you feel that you can't be your true self? Something along the way has conditioned you to make you feel that you can't speak up and you can't talk. And sadly, that actually stems from our school system and society. You know, don't speak up, speak when you're spoken to, stay quiet, I'm just fascinated by the way human beings behave because I know we can behave better if we want to, and we've got the right tools. And that's why I think incredible resources like your podcast are amazing for people out there because some people are just, they're not bad, they're just, Uninformed, this thing about, um, we're born fearless. And we are conditioned over time. I couldn't agree with that more. And from the studies that they do into nervous system, physiology, neurobiology, we know that that's there. Imprinting on a physical level, which then becomes its own trigger. So the, the biology then triggers the thought pattern, the thought pattern triggers the behavior, the behavior triggers the identity. And on we go. And it was really interesting yesterday. So I run a group container for, mainly for practitioners that are really looking to transform their capacity to hold space And one of them yesterday said that the feeling that had come up during an exercise, which is essentially self hypnotherapy, was the feeling of rejection. And when she said it, I got really curious because when we look through the seven core emotions, rejection is not one of them. Sadness, grief, rage, desire, jealousy, yes. Rejection It's a story that we're telling ourself that we then continue to perpetuate that has emotional adjuncts. And as you're talking, I'm aware of this question around influence. and change creation and attentive to the fact that you've done a lot of trainings in especially hypnotherapy and I'm really curious how do you work with people either directly or through the programs that you teach to encourage that level of change creation neuroplasticity to get them to believe that something else is possible except for the conditioning that they've had them to this point. Yeah, absolutely. It's a beautiful question. And interestingly, a lot of people come to me for external reasons. For example, I'd like to make more money. I'd like to grow my business. I'd like to become a public speaker. I'd like to be more of an influencer, etc, etc. These are all external achievements. Which are wonderful. And I think we should have all have aspirations and goals and things that we'd like to achieve in life. And don't let anybody stop you. If you like material things, knock yourself out. It's absolutely fine. However, there's two problems here. Number one, in order to achieve those things, you need to learn the strategy, which is fine. I can teach you that. Number two, which for me is actually the most important one is, you need to have the mindset to deploy those strategies. Now, mindset for me isn't just the external stuff, it's the deeper stuff, because anyone can externally motivate you, but as I like to say to people, external motivation wears off, internal motivation pays off, there's a difference. So, so, for me, it's about how do we tap into that internal motivation. Well, you need to find a deep desire as to why you want to do something. So, what I find difficult is, is in a workshop for example, to really do some deep work with someone, it's difficult because you require a safe space, you sometimes need to do one to one interventions, you need to do all that kind of stuff. So, for me to help someone achieve that external thing that they came to me for in the first place. I have to tap into a strong reason why now the best way to do that in the quickest way for anyone listening to this who wants to help somebody else or even help themselves change is attach some pain to your current situation and not achieving the external thing that is that you want to achieve. Now, let's look at business, for example, because maybe you're in business and some of your listeners might be if you're in business right now, nobody's coming to save you, especially if you work for yourself. If you go off sick. No one paying you unless you've got a business that's built on systems and processes and people that's trading without you You're gonna be screwed basically, right? So so but let's go deeper What would actually happen to those who rely on the income that your business or your work brings in? Now if you don't have any family, well, maybe your mortgage doesn't get paid. So the mortgage provider is going to be affected What will happen then? Well, they'll start proceedings and so on and so on and so on it starts to get worse and worse and worse however if you've got family and kids and You know, the team members and other people that rely on you, you and what you do. Suddenly the pain starts to amplify and it gets to the point where it hurts so much that you're like, Oh my goodness, if I don't carry on succeeding in business, if I don't carry on achieving certain milestones, then this worst thing could happen. Now, for some people, when I say this to them, they think, Oh, that's a very morbid way of thinking, Jess. Well, let's be perfectly blunt and honest, you and I both know people move more because of pain, not pleasure. So, as much as we'd love to help people achieve beautiful things, unless we get them to move, they'll never do it. So, rather than having a positive driver on its own, if you have a, a, a, also a negative driver, now you've got a push. Annapurna going on, you tend to achieve the outcome that you're looking for. And, and for me, that tends to be the quickest way to help someone on a sort of unconscious level move forwards. Now, along that journey, there'll become certain things that stop you, for example, fear, procrastination, whatever, blah, blah, blah. Then we can explore those as we, we go along. But unless I propel you forward with some pain first, we're not going to explore those other things that are going to come up, because you might be apprehensive to talk about them, or, like most people, are completely unaware that they are doing these things. They're completely unaware that they are pleasing people. They're completely unaware that they're not showing up as their best self. Some people are just completely unaware. And I believe awareness is our superpower. Once you're aware of it, it doesn't mean you're perfect. It just means that, hey, I'm aware I people please a lot, or I'm aware I, I, I, I don't put myself first. I'm aware of it. So when you catch yourself doing it, you go, oh, shouldn't be doing that, right? What can I do instead? But if you've got zero awareness, what baffles me. People are walking around with zero awareness. And there's people like you and me out there trying to help them and then, unfortunately, you get labeled as woo woo or spiritual or whatever it is and we're like, look, this isn't about woo woo, this is about helping someone see what they don't see because, look, if I, if I blindfolded you right now and put you into a, I don't know, a glass china antique shop, you'd be walking around smashing up the place and breaking stuff and all sorts. Well, that's what people are doing on a daily basis in their minds. They're walking around with zero awareness of a blindfold on and just walking into obstacle after obstacle, after obstacle, after obstacle. And what they could be doing a little bit of education is avoiding all of those things and taking a better path. So for me to help people tap into the inner self, that make those connections change, create new neuro pathways in their brain. It stems from awareness. But until we attach some pain to your current situation, why would you even want to move? Why would you even change? Like, why, if I met you tomorrow and there's not enough pain attached to my current situation, why on God's earth would I want to explore what are my inner traumas or inner triggers or things? I'm like, well, I've got this far. I'm okay. I don't really need the help. But unless you help me explore how that's really actually holding back, holding me back, how that's stopping me from showing up as a better parent, a better partner, You know, a better business person, how it's impacting pain, I might not move. And what I'm trying to say is, let's jump out the aeroplane together. I've got you. Yeah. I can really hear that. I can really hear how much you partner. with people, probably irrespective of what level you're working with them on. My sense of you is that you're someone that would come into a space and there wouldn't really be hierarchy. there would be discipline, there would be a real confidence in standing up on stage and being the leader of the conversation. But, I can't imagine you Diminishing another person and from everything you've said, it's not necessary to be successful because it rests in you. 100%, and Ante, what you have to understand is, and I think people, people, people struggle with leadership because they think it's a bad thing. And that's because they believe leadership, or leaders, should create followers. I'm not like that. For me, I am a leader. I'm a leader in my industry. I'm a leader in what I do. I'm a leader in my family. I'm a leader for many things. However, true leaders create more leaders, not followers. I'm not here to create followers. I don't need sheep around me. I want more lions around me. I want people to level up themselves. And the only way I can do that is by not having this hierarchical thing. Okay, I might be knowledgeable in certain things that you're not knowledgeable in. However, how, how can I help you get here, not stay down there? Yeah, and what that tells me is that what you're actually interested in is the connection. How significant is that for you? Like, even if you were thinking about, um, cause I know that one of the things that you coach business executives on often when they're trying to scale is influence and selling and my, my slightly kind of Machiavellian side. I have had previously quite a lot of challenge around some of the ethics of human manipulation because, uh, I came from a context where that was done to me rather than something that I had the opportunity of choosing to have or not to have. So I come with bias. I come with conditioning. And part of my, my learning as an entrepreneur has been Oh wow, okay, I'm gonna have to let some of that shit go. Yeah. In order to be able to offer people what they actually need in a way that is convincing enough at the time for them to say yes right at the moment when it would be so easy for them to say no and like you say, continue to live the really, um, habituated, slightly numbed lifestyle that they've had up until this point. So how, how does connection work for you as far as that kind of selling and influencing piece and what are your ethics around it? Beautiful. And I love that we brought this up. And as you saw me on stage, it was very much about how can I serve? And unless I help you in that moment, get out of your own way, you'll never experience how, how I can help you. there are apprehensions around buying or being sold to. And I think as I mentioned on stage, it's not linked specifically to what's being sold and who's selling. It's linked specifically to the fact that nobody likes being told what to do. So when you're told by this, you must do this now, like what's wrong with you, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. Then these are the unfortunate. Negative techniques that are used in selling and, and that's what gives the industry a bad name. However, let's talk about the word manipulate for a second. When did that become a bad thing? Do you see what I mean? If you go into the dictionary and look at the meaning of manipulate, it pretty much means to help something get unstuck. So, a chiropractor helps your back get unstuck. and manipulate your spine. All right. It might hurt at a time when they crack you and put you in all these awkward positions, but I don't think anybody goes home going, Oh, what an evil person. Oh God, my gosh. I feel more relieved, you know? So thank you chiropractor for manipulating my back. So manipulation is, is a word that unfortunately has been, been given a bad name because at the end of the day. What are we trying to do here? We're trying to help people get unstuck. Now, even for yourself, working with your clients, when, when the client turns up to you, they're in what we call in the coaching world, undesired state, and they want to enter desired state. Why are they not in desired state right now? It's because they're stuck. They have a problem, and they're stuck. In order for you, Anthea, to do your best work with this person, you must first get them unstuck, because you can't move forwards without gaining some form of momentum. So if I can help you get unstuck a little bit then you can gain momentum. So let's put that into a sales presentation. My whole sales presentation is designed to get you unstuck because if I can't get you unstuck, you won't buy my program, you won't buy my product, you won't buy my service because you'll remain stuck with your current beliefs and your current thought pattern around what you do. So how I do it is I help elevate you above your current belief system that's stopping you from buying. That could be, might get ripped off, it's manipulation, it's whatever it is, blah, blah, blah, blah, to help land you into my offer so that you can discover for yourself that actually, Jessen wasn't selling rubbish. He, he was actually here to, and I know that. So you go back to ethics. It only works, Anthea, for the likes of you and me. Who know we are not here to rip people off. We are not selling rubbish. I mean, there's a reason why there's virtually zero negative reviews about me online in the training space. I've been doing this for 10 years, Anthier. Any, go and speak, go and look at any speaker in this, in the industry. You'll see there's so many negative reviews about them. It's not because they're bad people. I'm just saying that perhaps they've got a different way of doing things, where they sell someone a course or program, And then once you've done that course or program, they upsell you into another course or a program, and so on and so on and so on, and they don't deliver on what they promised when you first met them. Now, for me, I know when someone invests in my courses in my program, I give them everything. What you do with it is up to you. I can't make you do it. However, I can sleep well at night because I know I've poured my heart and soul into that program that I'm offering you. And I'll do everything I can to get you over the line to help you buy it. So, that's why I don't get complaints. That's why I don't get people coming back and saying, Oh, you ripped me off, give me my money. So, because I know that with integrity, I will do whatever I can in any situation to help someone to buy from me. And that's the key here. We're not here to sell to people. We're here to help them to buy. There's a big, big difference. So when you came along, yeah, you weren't planning on investing or doing anything like that. However, I'd like to think that helped you make a decision to invest because I genuinely believe coming back to your point of influence for, for anyone, really not just entrepreneurs. If you, if you are amazing at what you do, how dare you stay the world's best kept secret. People need you. There's people out there who are suffering right now who need what you have to offer, whether that's a product or service that can help them make more money and take away their financial worries or help them release some trauma that's been holding them back for years. People need you. So how dare you say the world's best kept secret and people like yourself. You are, you're a light worker. You're, you're here to be a light in other people's lives. When people are going through darkness, they need to experience light. And that's where people like yourselves come into. And how much darkness is in this world right now? There's so much darkness in this world. So when I say this to people, I'm like, you're being bloody selfish. Get out your own way. Start speaking up. The less you influence, the less people know who you are. So if you can help people to buy from you by the power of influence, As long as you're not selling rubbish, let's go back to the word manipulate. I'm not manipulating in a negative way. I'm helping you get unstuck. Then I'll do whatever I can to influence. And I think a lot of people are afraid to get out there and sell their products or services because of this fear of, of, of, of people judging them and saying they're this and saying they're that or whatever. And I'm fully aware, Anthony. I mean, you, you obviously your, your model of the world is different to other people, but there were some people in the room at the event. You sold me out of that. Probably still thought, oh, he's just trying to manipulate us. Not a problem. At least I've done whatever I can in the 90 minutes that I had on stage to help you to look at it differently. And if it still didn't land, perhaps there's some deeper work that you need to go and do on yourself. Um, but I've done what I can, you know, so yeah. I really love that. And, um, just that reevaluation of the word manipulation, if that's the one takeaway that people have from this, it would be really useful. Earlier on when you were talking, the thing that I was becoming aware of is that when someone is stuck, they're very identified with that way of being. in the coaching space, for those that are listening that don't know this modality that well, what we talk about is creating a, an object to subject shift. So that people go from a place where they feel so entangled in the way that they're thinking and behaving to a place where they're, let's say, more of the loving witness and they're able to look over at themselves with spaciousness and be like, wow, look at that funky stuff I'm doing over there, so that's coming up pretty strongly, but when you're talking and when I'm picturing you on stage, because you have spoken to, you know, thousands of people, you've been on some hefty stages with some lineups that would make anyone check themselves just a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what I feel like I'm hearing is that you're not. personally super identified with what people think of you because in that moment your focus is a on them but b you're focusing on the integrity of the product Personal versus product thing is something that, uh, I play with a lot when I'm working with entrepreneurs, particularly because so often for an entrepreneur, especially in their first few cycles of a business, they have just merged their own value with the thing that they're bringing into the world. And it creates so much confusion and vulnerability whenever they get a knock back. Yeah. And this is linked to. I often say to people, don't, don't measure your self worth by your business worth, so it can go both ways. have you ever seen someone out there before where they're doing so well in business and there's this arrogance that's attached to it, where they feel like they're above everybody else and I'm this and I'm that, blah, blah, blah. And now, so, so they feel amazing because their self worth is attached to their business worth. So their business is doing really, really well, so they're flying up here. So, Then something bad happens and business falls flat. What happens to their self worth? It goes, it follows, basically. So now they feel like they're terrible and then this and that or whatever it is. What they forget is, it's because of their self that that business got to where it was in the first place. So therefore, that hasn't disappeared. What's disappeared is the external results. Not the internal resources., So a lot of the times when we're not doing as well as what we could do in business, especially in your early years, we tend to attach that to our self worth and go, it's because I'm not good enough. It's because I, you know, I'm, I'm this and I'm that and I'm whatever. So let's link that back to what you've just said. When I'm presenting to people, I am, I'm completely detached from me as a person and my product or my service, because Again, in a non arrogant way, whether you buy my products or not, my life goes on and I'm hopeful that should you choose to invest with me, that perhaps your life might go on a completely different trajectory to mine and, or to where it is right now. And if you take that leap of faith, you might just discover a completely different version of yourself. But if you don't, I love you anyway, and I'm cool with that. And if you didn't enjoy my presentation, I still love you. It's all good. And because I'm fine with that, whether people buy from me or not, I'm okay. And I guess what I've been given a name for in the speaker industry is being that person who's actually able to get on stage in front of a room of strangers who've never heard of him before. And help them to buy, which is why promoters all across the world want to work with me and want me to come and speak on their stages and speak to sell on things like that, because it's also done in a non sleazy way and the audience have a great time when I'm on stage and when, when they're experiencing it. So it's beautiful that I have that. And because I'm so detached from the outcome, I always make sales. And what can we learn from that? When you detach yourself from the neediness of something, I need to make money, I need to be in a relationship, I need, I need, I need, I need. When you, when you need something, it's like when you are late for work and you need a bus, you don't bloody see one. But when you don't need a bus and you're just walking down a road, three of them go by at the same time. And that sales. If you are so needy when you are selling, if you're so needy when you are making an offer, because it's linked to you and who you are and I need the money and I need to sell, if people don't buy my product it means I'm a bad person or whatever. If your need is so high you will struggle to make sales. So when you're detached from the outcome, you'll make more sales. Because when you're needy, other people pick up on that. Anyway, we've all been in situations when we know the sales person is a bit pushy and a bit, it's because they need it. I need that person's money. I need their sale ends up repelling us. Right? So if you can completely detach from the outcome, detach from your product. Detach your self worth from your business worth. Be you. Come back home as you say. You'll be fine when you're making an offer to somebody and I guess that's something that I've developed over the years to a level of mastery where I'm very very comfortable getting on any stage or any platform or anywhere and just being myself and and accepting of the fact that people are not against you, they're for themselves. So if they don't like me, that's okay. That doesn't mean you're against me. You're just protecting yourself because all behavior has a positive potential for the person doing it. So why, why do you not like me? Perhaps there's something about me that triggers you and perhaps you don't like the feeling that that evokes. Therefore the best way to do it is actually to shut Jesson out and not speak to Jesson or don't want to know Jesson. Because perhaps my confidence comes across as arrogance to you and perhaps you've had a bad experience with someone arrogant in the past and now it's Jessen's fault. So, you know, so for me, people are not against you to live for themselves. And if we can live like that, it's a beautiful thing, especially in selling. So it's fine. If you don't want to buy from me, you're not against me. You're just protecting yourself. It's okay. It's not a problem. It makes the comment that you made about, um, people pleasing so vivid because my head was just calculating if Jessen was Trying to people please all of the people in that thousand person room that have some sort of trigger response to something that he says like once. I mean, God, you'd be freaking exhausted. Of course she is. Like literally running around the room trying to kind of scoop it up and make it better. Yeah, yeah. Justin, can I ask, I'm aware of time because you're a very busy popular man, but I would really love to know on a slightly more personal angle, maybe let's start with this, what you've learned, and there must be so much, what distills to you in this moment, in this moment, as your learnings from being a father? What a beautiful question. So, as you witnessed, I brought my son to the event when you were there. And, for me, not just being a father for any parent, and I implore anyone who's got children to just please take a moment to listen to what I'm saying. We allow our children to be influenced by so many people out there. This is why it's important for you to Find your own inner compass and come home to yourself first. Your children will either become a reflection of you, or a reflection of who they're hanging around with. And in modern day society, our children are spending most of their time at school. And, well, waking hours at least. And whilst they're at school, who are they being influenced by? Teachers, perhaps other kids. And what are they taking on board? The values and belief systems of other people. So what I've learned as a father is what is important to me? What do I think is right? Because at the end of the day, no one gives you a handbook to life. We would just figure out what works for us, what doesn't work for us. And we just have a, You know, as long as you've got good morals and good ethics, then, then you'll be okay, you know, so for example, when we're growing up, we're told, you know, pleas and thank yous go a long way. And that stems from just having a bit of honor and respect and dignity and a moral compass and treat people nicely. So one thing I realized is that if I can be a better person for myself, firstly, not for anybody else, then that will make me a better person to my sons. And to, to, to other people around me, but then that's not enough because now I need time with them to, to share those values and beliefs with them. Otherwise they will end up being a product of the school, not me. So what I'm getting at for anybody who's got children and listening to this is. If your child is not behaving in the way that you behave, as in you treat people with respect, but they're being rude to people, or they're unruly, but you're quite ruling, don't blame the child, blame the environment that you've put them in. And for many people, they're out there working so much that they don't get time to spend with their families. And when they are spending time with their families or their children, they're distracted. So what I've learned as a father is, okay, I've got this belief system and these values that work for me in my model of the world that I'd love to impart on my kids, but unless I give them a vehicle or modality to impart that knowledge on, then it's wasted. So I can't stop them spending time in school, but what can I do? I can, I can counter it with the time that I spend with them. So what I'm trying to say is ring fence time. So the most important thing that I've learned about being a father is time. When I'm with my children, be with my children. And this is that whole thing I was asked the other day to comment on, you know, by my PR manager on, um, work life balance. And I was like, what absolute tosh, there's no balance in work and life. Balance, yeah, balance presupposes equilibrium. But there is, we spend most of our waking hours at work, and probably less with our family. So what am I trying to say is, if you're with your family for two hours, give them 110 percent of those two hours. And only be at the office when you're at the office. But some people, they're at the office when they're at home, and not present. So, so for me, learning how to be more present as a father, And taking time to help them experience certain things is a way that allows me to impart things on them and help them see there's a different way to thinking, there's a different way to life. You know, Dustin, my son who you met, is actually, I mean he's 12 years old now, but he's actually been coming on stage with me since he was 3 years old. So, I mean, he's introduced me on stage before. He's been on stages and introduced his daddy on stage and all sorts and he was seven years old when he first did that, you know, now, if I hadn't have spent time with him, if he hadn't spent time with me, and watching me do all this stuff, then, then perhaps he would be behaving like somebody else, like one of the teachers, and one of the other people, and unfortunately, love teachers to bits, however, a lot of them have got their own stuff going on, and self confidence issues, and self worth issues, so be present with your children, and for me, being a father has taught me the, the gift of time, and the gift of mindfulness when I'm with my kids. Such a beautiful answer. You know, the other thing from what you're saying is that in many respects, it's not really the teacher's job. That part is not the teacher's job. They, they are there to hold space lovingly and to educate, but not on the topics that you're talking about. No, and to be fair to them, they also need help. Yeah, for sure. They're human, like, they're not, they're just like you and me. Just because they're a teacher doesn't mean they haven't got stress, anxiety, worry, trauma, things going on in their own life. And then you expect them to put on this shiny mask and look after your kids and then you blame them when things go wrong. No, no, it's not the teacher's fault. You know, I don't blame the teachers when another child is trying to bully your child. It's not the teacher's fault who taught them this, who taught them it was okay to actually bully people who taught them. It was go to the parents. You know, it stems from there. And so, so his parents take responsibility. I it grates me when I see parents laying into teachers. Now, there are certain things obviously teachers should take control of, we appreciate that, however it's not their job to raise your child and things like that, you know, that's your job, that's your job, they're there to, like you said, to create a safe space and to educate and to impart knowledge. Not to raise them, you know, so, so, you know, so when you are with them, because I appreciate people work, but when you are with them, be with them, put your phone away, take time out. Yeah. It's committing. It's committing, which is also a lot of your ethic in business. My friend, I have one more question and I just feel like I would do myself a disservice if I didn't agree. You are also a boxer. Yes. That tells me not just that you love a good fisticuffs, there's a relationship with your body on some level, whether that's the discipline to show up, whether that's the practice in combat, like whatever it is, there's a relationship with your body that is a part of the ecosystem of what you do and how you do it. And I would love to know what that relationship is for you. Yeah, well, as you do yourself with what you do, mind, body, soul, the whole connection of everything. For me, when I got into boxing, it was more of a mental thing, it wasn't a physical thing. I've always enjoyed exercising, you know, I've been going to the gym since I was like 13, 14 years old. I've always enjoyed it. Physical activity and movement and playing sports and doing stuff and things like that. I'm also very conscious that how we show up physically also affects us mentally. And, and I, I like to, to do my best to show up mentally in all areas of my life. You know, I, I don't want to be with my kids, for example, we're just talking about kids and be mentally drained and zoned out because I'm not in a good physical state. So, so for me, when I took up boxing, it was more of a mental challenge because there's life beyond entrepreneurship. And as I mentioned to you before, we, we, we got on air, you know, you know, for me, my, my work doesn't feel like work at times and it's a big part of my life and I've, I've chosen to accept that rather than fight it, you know, as people, people say to you, Jesse, like, you know, you need to take time off. Okay, but when my work doesn't feel like work, why? For who? I know when to stop, don't get me wrong, I know when I need time out, I know that. But if I'm enjoying it, then let me do my thing, you know, it's absolutely fine. So, but because I get so entwined in it, I don't, I tend not to look at stuff beyond. So for me, boxing was a challenge beyond entrepreneurship. And, and it also connected to my, my, my, my physical being anyway, because I love, you know, exercising and stuff. And I love it. I've always done the traditional thing, lift some weights, do some cardio, lift some weights, do some cardio. I've never been a fan of classes and stuff and things like that, whatever. When I went into my, my fight camp for my, my, my, my first fight. I was like, wow, this is a completely different way of training. Like, uh, completely different. I mean, for me, I was. I'm an all in kind of person. I either go all in or I'm all out, right? There's no in between with me. So, so I went all in and I was training nine times a week out here. Like I was really going for it. Like I had like three cardio sessions, three boxing sessions and three strength training sessions and nutritionist and the whole lot and blah, blah, blah, doing the whole thing. And it just made me realize that how easy it is for us, if we choose to put ourselves in a completely different physical condition, to set ourselves up for a completely different, Different physical encounter, but where does that stand from? Mind. It's all from, from here. So, so for me, and then I spoke earlier on about having a strong desire for why you want to do something. Well, when I was going into the ring, what did I want to achieve? I wanted to win. So me being me, well, let me attach some more pain to that. I had my two boys and my dad ringside watching me fight. And my coach said, Jess, why are you bringing them? You putting pressure on yourself? And I was like, because there's no way in hell I'm getting knocked out in front of my kids, not happening. Do you see what I mean? So, so I said, no one's going to out train me and my kids are there. It's not happening. I'll never let them down. And I won and it was great, but for me, It showed that the mind and body connection, because unless you're actually connected with both of those things. Then, then you wouldn't actually experience any kind of real, real tangible result, you know, so, so to answer your question, you know, boxing for me was just another vehicle for me to enhance and amplify and just show what's possible, It's a way of learning even more deeply the level of potential that you have Exactly this. It was beautiful. It was lovely. And I, and I, you know, I'd recommend anyone to, you don't have to get in a boxing ring like I did, but you know, to, to push themselves physically and set yourself a challenge and put your mind to it and see what happens. You know, our bodies are capable of incredible things. So, so go and explore is what I would say. Uh, you are a dream. It's a pleasure. Justin, I'm going to ask you because you are, um, because you are someone that includes so many incredible statements in every interview and every, uh, stage show that you do, um, I'd love for you to leave us with a statement. So I guess one of the things I would say to everybody listening to this, and I think it's, it's relevant to the title of your podcast and the theme of your podcast is understand that life doesn't take you where you want to go. It takes you where you need to go. And there's some beauty in the challenges that you might be facing right now. And as I like to say to people, it's not the end of the road, it's a bend in the road. so much. Whenever you're being rejected, you're being redirected to something better. So rather than go to default setting of self and why has this happened to me? I'm a bad person. This is this, this is that, whatever it is. Is I want to encourage everybody that next time something doesn't go your way or perhaps something's not going your way right now It is to turn into it rather than away from it and seek meaning and you'll find there's actual beauty in it And it's life's way of taking you where you need to go Not where you want to go where you want to go is to a place of comfort and where where you need to go Is to a place of discomfort because that's where the growth happens. So if you're going to blame Your situation, if you're going to blame other people, if you're going to blame your circumstances, then blame them for the good as well. Because without that level of discomfort, you wouldn't become the person that you are today. Amen to that. I'm going to liberate you to your day. Thank you again. And uh, team that are listening, this is just the first of an incredible season, but what a start it is. I will make sure you have all of the details for how to access every little dose of magic that Jesson offers out into the world. If you have any questions for him or for us, just drop us an email. The details are in the show notes and we send you love for your onward journey. Thank you. gorgeous listeners. Thank you. So. So. much. For your ears. I hope. You enjoy today's. today's. episode. To find. More about our. Featured guests. Have a look in the show. Notes.