Finding Your Way Home; The Secrets to True Alignment

Episode 8 - Pilates & Pelvic Floor Expert Claire Sparrow on movement, meaning and creating your own legacy

• Anthea Bell

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Gorgeous Listeners, welcome to this week’s episode of Finding Your Way Home,

Today we’re joined by a special repeat podcast guest - author, pilates, movement and pelvic floor specialist, Claire Sparrow.  

Claire is a renowned figure in the movement world, marrying her passion for pilates with her wider mission - to restore women's pelvic health and grant them newfound agency, optimism and physical potential. She is a ceaseless champion of others, as you will know if you have read her book "Hope for your Pelvic Floor", visited her studios or joined one of her online programmes. 

What Claire and I really unite on, is the webbed connection of body~mind and the profound influence of the human heart on creating businesses, communities and movements of deepest impact. Which, you'll be delighted to know, is exactly what we explore in this second conversation together... We explore Claire's most impactful life lessons; how she has cultivated her curiosity and intuition (and how you can too); what she had to re-learn about "learning"; curing yourself of pedestalisation; and why community sits at the centre of everything she offers. 

An open, beautiful exchange - with its landing message: that love is everything. 

To find out more about Claire's work:

Find her on Instagram: @clairesparrowpilates
Visit her website: https://wholebodypelvichealth.co.uk/

Stay connected with the podcast

Thank you for listening; it means the world to us. We'd be so grateful if you could rate, review or share this gorgeous episode with someone you love. That small act brings us to new ears and eyes - it builds the movement of health and connection that FYWH is built on. 

For more information and upcoming news on the podcast, follow us on  @ab_embodiment and our website. 

And to explore working together more deeply

  • Join our free newsletter for insights, events and self-healing resources.
  • Apply for an Early Bird place on the Embodiment Coaching Certification 2025 - taking your work as a Practitioner to a new level of depth, impact and professional success. 
  • Secure your space at our beautiful retreat in Costa Rica this Autumn. 6 days of sacred ceremony, moving you into the body, into the heart and through the emotional / historic blocks that have held you back. Prepare for a depth of connection you have never felt, in one of the most magical landscapes in the world. Be with us...

Sending love, wherever this finds you,

Ax

love is everything. I mean, my book was called Hope, Hope for Your Pelvic Floor, but hope and love are intertwined to me and are everything. And it's the, the biggest gift that we can give to people, you know, giving someone whatever it might be, whether it's gifting a scholarship or giving information to someone that they had not been given before that allows them to make an informed choice. That is a hundred percent love, right there.

Anthea:

Welcome to Finding Your Way Home, the secrets to true alignment. I'm your host, Anthea Bell, movement teacher, mind body coach, and lifelong spiritual seeker. This is a podcast about the depth, weight, and profound healing power of connection between mind and body, spirit and soul, and from one human to another. Together with an incredible range of inspiring guests, we'll explore just what connection and alignment mean. How to get there in a world full of the temptation to conform, and how great challenge ultimately can lead to life changing transformation. Get ready for groundbreaking personal stories, conversational deep dives, and a toolkit of strategies to build not just your inner knowing, but your outer world. Let's dive in.

Claire is one of the most inspiring women I have ever encountered. She has embodied stature, unbelievable ethic, an enormous heart, sometimes even to her own detriment, and a capacity to see with real insight what needs to move and change in not just a person's body, but in their way of being. And in their way of relating to the world. She is known for her expertise in Pilates. She has been crafting that skill over the course of the past 20 years. Trained initially as a dancer and then moved into this wonderful world of the Joseph Pilates mind body spirit system to really create more than just movement for people or even let's say to expand people's understanding of what movement is and what it can do. I also know her as a key educator in the British side of Polestar Pilates, which is an organization that I love dearly. And she has her own little nest all the way in Leeds, which I've had the great pleasure of being at and being a part of. If you are lucky enough to be in space with her, which I would highly recommend, please indulge in every moment of it because she is worth it. The Time and Worth the Knowing. Claire, after a very long introduction, welcome. Oh, it's so nice to be here. I feel honored to be actually a returning guest, um, that you believe that there's something useful that I might have to share today for your listeners. And that's always what's really important to me as whoever is listening and whether it's here on a podcast or when I'm educating that. There's something of value there for the listener. And I love that you said, um, you described my environment in Leeds as, as Nest because I'm here in Scotland at what we've nicknamed Sparrow's Nest up in Scotland. And so I find that, yeah, that's just lovely. Hear from Sparrow's Nest. I feel as though that the nesting quality, that ability to make a home is something that you are, you either cultivated as a skill or you're naturally good at, that you're able to allow people to feel as though they're coming home, which is wonderful given the title of this podcast. Yes, and it's something that I have worked on because it's really, really important to me. It's something that my husband, who's part of the, the team, um, we call it Team Sparrow, you know, that we, we have created that nest there in Leeds together. And he's. been pivotal actually in an instrumental in creating my vision, actually bringing it to life. So listening to me, talking to him about the nervous system and talking to him about how the environment can really shape the experience that people have when they come into our nest, whether it be here in Scotland or there in Leeds. It's, it's important and so he's worked really hard to, to create that with the texture, with the plants, with everything that we bring in and to be quite, um, alternative I would say to the expected environment of a Pilates studio. The word that just came up for me in listening to you, because I was thinking about also how much your husband supports the technical side of things, how many of the systems he's involved in. That's had me thinking a lot about organizational health. And one of the things that I remember really revolutionized my relationship with money was being taught that money wanted to be cared for energetically. Money wants to feel safe, right? And when money feels safe, it will feel safe enough to flourish. And if I think about an organization or the human body or a leadership team, you could apply exactly the same model that there have to be structures and systems in place that show a level of tender care and stewardship in order for whatever it is that's within the container to feel safe enough to grow, express, uh, realize their potential. And I wonder if that's been a conscious decision for you. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, as a studio and as a person, my number one value is the people. People are number one. You know, we are teaching people, not Pilates. We, it is that priority that drives everything that the The people who come and learn Pilates from my team need my team to be healthy, well nourished, and cared for so that they can do that caring for, they can do that. shine and show their best selves and their skills with those people that come in. So the team really, it's absolutely vital. And I think about the team and how I want to look after them all the time, even whilst I'm here. So I had a beautiful experience there's a beautiful relaxation. centre in Wick, which is sort of very, very north. It's basically just below, um, John O'Groats, so it's that north. And it's a yurt on a cliff edge, looking out at the beautiful sea. It's gorgeous. And I've had many beautiful experiences there. And one of the, the relaxation sessions I went to this visit, we did an art project. So we came together and she got us In a circle with really simple tools it was sharpie pens and it was a little um ceramic oil diffuser thing and all we did is we just had a little bit of inspiration from her like a little thought about what does this place mean to us and we we just drew we created we made something and afterwards that I immediately felt. This was something I would like to share with my team to bring them together in a circle to do this simple craft activity together because it's, it's about all of the ways that we need to be nurtured as people. not just leadership in the corporate interpretation of that. It's how do we, uh, lead by example by taking time out to do something that is going to nurture us, that's going to take us away from the cognitive thinking, that's going to allow us to see and feel that it's important. to take time out from the work that we do, because it's still work that we do. When we are teaching, we are pouring into people and we need the restoration time in lots of different ways. And it's one of the things I think in our profession, I mentioned to you before we came on the call, I feel like burnout is so rife in our profession. And I want to keep leading by example that, that our other ways, our profession is in its infancy. We get to write the pathway that we go on as individuals rather than just following the leader. the leader is giving an opportunity for you to go, Oh, there could be another way, not follow their way necessarily. Yeah. If I had a penny for the number of times I have a conversation with a client, and one of the phrases that we use is you get to choose this. You get to choose. And I'm not diminishing the fact that each and every person comes with their own, uh, financial circumstances, their own societal opportunities. I'm not diminishing that at all. There is massive inequality. Of course there is. And from a neurobiological perspective, we are constantly choosing all the time anyway. It's just a question as to whether that choice is conscious, or whether it is unconscious condition. not just following a script, but in our kind of world, following an exemplar. Are you conscious about the exemplars that you are following and do you know enough about what they really stand for, what they embody, what they inhabit in their life, to feel like this is a good model for me, this is actually what I want to attain, not just I want to attain their financial wherewithal or I want to attain their status, but I want to attain what they've been able to live as. And I think that we're in a tide of change in the world, not just in our profession, where, you know, I had a brilliant conversation about this with my mom actually, um, and we were talking about, you know, that there was a time where a job was for life. And we're not in that time, and I'm thrilled for my children to be in a place, a moment in time where they can choose, and then choose again, and then choose again when the curiosity and where the curiosity takes them, and of course, we can, as you say, we, you know, we have to all earn an income, and I think that an income can come when we are following something that we're truly passionate about because we will go to the depth of that. Will go there. Whereas if we're on the surface, we're not going to have the income generating potential that we might have if we went to the depth of that, you know, so yeah, that's maybe controversial. I mean, for me, it's not controversial at all because I see work. Especially when I'm looking at someone like you in your, in your studio t shirt, I look at work as the, it's the extension of who you are in the best circumstances. even if you're doing a job that isn't necessarily the blueprint of all of your interests and values. If you're doing it from source, which is you you're doing it from there, then naturally, as you say, not only will you have skin in the game, vital to avoid burnout, but you have to actually care about what you're doing, but you will be reflected in your business. So as soon as someone comes to me for coaching and their business is in a massive pickle, what it tells me is there's a lot of incongruity in the person, always, It begins here. And it's the, it comes through and shows up absolutely everywhere. And you know, it's not to say that I've always known or been clear either or that it's been easy. it's not easy to consistently follow your beliefs when your beliefs might be contrasting or different to the norm or what's commonplace in your profession or in your family or in your community or in your friendship group, whatever that looks like, when you're going, or actually really deep inside of me. I believe something different, and it, it's not easy, it really can be challenging at times too, and I'm, I'm always still feeling that challenge of, you know, with pelvic health, as an example. So, I. I see constantly on social media, on media in general, the drive and push towards doing traditional pelvic floor exercises. And I am so far away from that in what I'm doing that sometimes it can feel really overwhelming to see that all the time, that I'm not seeing other people who are saying the same thing as I am, that are believing the same things. that I believe. And so it has to be such a strong belief. And there, for me, I, like with you, we have a really strong connection and I always feel held and supported with you. So looking for people in your world who, even although they might not have the same beliefs, or it might be a completely different topic or profession that, that you're talking about. And they can hold that space for you so that you can feel as you do as a coach, you can hold that space and allow them to work out and work through that belief system. What's really beautiful about what you're sharing for me is that it speaks to this, distinction that becomes increasingly clear, I think the longer that you work and the more people that you work with, that where we're talking about very deep, again, embodied purpose, we have to be talking about the collective. We have to be referencing our shared humanity, our unity, the fact that there is really very little that separates you from me, except for the geography and two computer screens. And I think when you can have the feeling of the way that your purpose, the message you're here to impart, or the skills you're here to share. You can really tap into the collective benefit of that. It means it's much easier to get out of your own way, to drop beneath the fear and the hesitation. And even, like you say, some of the barriers in your, in immediate environment, uh, that might make you wanna be a bit more shy about your message. Collective benefit is such a beautiful phrase, and I think it really, it is a great description of the, the way that we actually run our, our studio in Leeds, that, that it's, it's as close as, as a business, really, you know, we could run it as a cooperative almost, where instead of it being hierarchical, it really is so much more collaborative, the way that we operate, so that people, uh, can feel the growth opportunities for them. People can follow their own curiosities and there's a place to share that. for me, I just want to create an environment where people can grow, which brings us back to, to where we began. Yeah. And it also touches on two words that I was going to drop into your consciousness and see what comes up when I say them. The first word is, uh, individual responsibility. How important is that as a leader and within your team, even for your clients? Hugely. I mean, I think with the clients. In particular, but it comes from us because we, we believe as a team, the way that we teach and support our clients. is primarily to teach them how to be responsible. Right from the beginning, even when I'm teaching for Polestar, I will teach the students the importance of teaching their client how to feel first. You cannot teach someone how to do whatever the exercise is if they are not in their body, in that moment, in time, with you. So we're not teaching Pilates exercises. First, we are teaching those people how to feel themselves, to be present in that moment, and the teacher has to be present in that moment in order to teach the client to be present in that moment.. So yes, that personal responsibility, that the teacher is not the person who is responsible for Fixing, I'm doing air quotes, fixing, um, or even teaching, you know, I've been thinking quite a lot about what does teaching mean? What does instruction mean? What does profession and industry, all of these things I'm really curious about right now. Um, because. This teaching, this exchange, is an exchange. It's working both ways. And the, the client coming in has to really be party to that. And it not be the responsibility of the teacher solely. is shared exchange. And as a teacher, I think that we all have a responsibility to care for ourselves, nurture ourselves, look after our own finances, look after our education, follow our own curiosities as it pertains to specialism, for example. So I've really gone down that sort of fascia and biotensegrity route, and I'm really thrilled and excited down that pathway and how that influences pelvic health and then how that filters into pilates as a whole. So I think we can all follow our curiosity and there's enough. Resources out there that are even free that can allow a teacher to follow a curiosity and not necessarily impede them financially, but just time, just giving time to that ongoing education. Um, and I also think we have a responsibility to practice. In our own mind and body and I think often in our own practice, we can practice in our body but we're not always mind and body. Yeah. And I think, you know, you used the word earlier presence. And for me, that is the gateway, you know, you can use very effectively, in fact, more effectively than going in through the mind. You can use the body as a way of finding presence, of course, living through it and in it all of the time. Why would you not use it? But. I think what can come up, whether you're a practitioner in, in physical work or whether you are working with people's minds or, or in the realm that I'm increasingly in, you know, lack of presence is the biggest thing that will trip you into all of the causes of suffering in terms of thought. You know, you will trip yourself into automatic dominance. You will trick yourself into a power dynamic where you do disempower the person that you're working with. you know, you mentioned before we came into the air that this period of time in Scotland is a really reflective period for you. And to assume that we can continue to go and do and be in a role without pausing, presencing, and reflecting, without being willing, therefore, to go back to the drawing board and ask ourselves, Is this still working for me? Is this still working for them? Is this how I want to be showing up for my community? To not do that work is also not to take radical responsibility for the message that we have to offer and how it needs to be delivered in order that they can hear it. Absolutely. And it. It's a constant. So, you know, I come here regularly for reflection, and sometimes things come up for me where I think, oh, that's a scary, that's a, that's a scary truth that I'm hearing coming through right now. And. I have to keep doing that because I want other people to face their scary truths and make changes to what their needs are in their world. I just did, though you guys can't see me, but I just did manic hand gesture at Claire's face because we gotta learn to face the fear. The longer that we do not face the fear, we live in an identity that does not believe it is capable of standing in that space. As soon as we face the fear safely with company, with all of our tools, we realize that we are capable. We grow in that moment that we are willing to look at the thing, not to mention what we'll learn through looking at the thing. Thoughts, dear one, and any examples that you have from your own life or from your own business of where it's been really. flipping terrifying to face the fear and what that's given you by being willing to face it. Oh, so many things. Um, I mean, when I was quite newly qualified, and I recently had my first born child, who's now 19, so way You're back. Um, I experienced postnatal depression and at the time I was teaching Pilates, I'd set up my own classes, it was sort of on the side of teaching dance and further education full time. And prior to having my son, the young people I worked with were like, my children, you know, I, I knew everything about them. I was responsible for their pastoral care so that it was, you know, I was leading the department. So it was a big deal. They were a big deal to me. And when I returned to work, I wasn't that person anymore. And my strategies, the practical ones, because they were gone because I couldn't work late into the evenings and all those, the practical strategies and my emotional strategies were, were not there. I wasn't the same. I couldn't step in and be that person because I wasn't that person anymore. And it felt like a massive turning point that I had to face. that I couldn't continue. They needed a me that was me prior. And I wasn't, I loved the role, I loved the environment, the supportive team, the students, every, I mean, I was so invested. Honestly, heart on heart, I couldn't, I wasn't the person they needed anymore. And It was huge because I then faced, we as a family faced financial hardship by me leaving that stability and security. So there was, I knew that I had to do that, I had to step away from that role and I did that and worked really, really hard in focusing on what I could do. was working. How was I able to show up? Who was I able to show up for? And that was, at that point, more women like me in that same stage of life, postnatal women, pregnant women, women in my local community. So I just grew the work that I was doing. already in the Pilates realm. And, and of course, we took on a lodger and various other sort of ways to stabilize our financial health, because we had to be done. And it was very, very difficult and a challenging time. To do that to do what was the right thing for those people that those young people and it was very difficult for us and if I hadn't done that, we might not have been here having this conversation today because I had really had the skin in the game. I had to make Pilates work. It really pushed. me to, to invest much more heavily. And it was also, um, when I opened, so another step along that way, because I continue to teach a little bit of dance on the side in the local community. Cause I worked a lot with, um, adults with learning disabilities. So I worked with Mencap and various organizations, and I was able to do, keep doing that around mumming. And. When I opened my big studio in 2010, it was another crossroads point because I had to make the decision to go all in. I couldn't keep doing dance and those bits that I was doing over there. And open up. a studio and run, you know, host education and do all of those things. And in the back of my mind, and I've been thinking about this kind of sunk cost idea, I'd moved to England. My parents had invested a lot to support me doing a dance degree because I couldn't do one in Scotland because there was no dance degree in Scotland at that time. I had to what felt like at the time, walk away from the investment we had all made in that, that life, that dance, that, that education. I'd done my teaching degree focusing on dance. I'd done my undergrad degree. I was in dance, you know, it felt like a huge thing. Like, am I really going all in on Pilates? Really? I had to make that brave. It felt really scary and really brave at the time to move into that. Does that kind of answer your question? I probably have more examples. It really answers my question. Um, because the other word that was coming up for me in reflecting on this conversation was around the theme of commitment and whether commitment is integral. I think a lot of the time, especially when people are projecting on Figures in leadership roles, there's a, often an assumption that it isn't necessarily that hard it's really, really easy to minimize the amount of sheer bloody commitment that it takes to stay in the game and stamina. Yeah. Stamina so much stamina and commitment also means being willing to, as you say, leave. And it means being willing to radically prioritize, right, which all comes back to the idea that we've got to be really honest with ourselves. And that is hard because you have a lot of empathy and care for other people. You will of course want to stay and that's not always in the best good. Exactly, and I had to do the exact same thing again when the, you know, we'd been in the studio for six years and it was time to, are we gonna renew the lease here? What, what are the next steps? And it was just really, really clear for me that I was making a lot of sacrifice, sacrifices to my family. To be in that studio to run and keep it going in the model that it existed in and I, I couldn't, and it meant it was, that was radical because it meant that everybody that worked with us in that environment, their whole worlds had to change because I was choosing my family. that was one of the most difficult decisions I've ever had to make. And it probably took me three years. I think I felt anew much sooner than I could actually say it out loud and make the decision. to move on from that. And what transpired was for everyone concerned, it opened up a door, it opened up a gateway, it opened up an opportunity to think differently, do differently, move, create, and It changed the, the trajectory for everyone in a really positive way. For some it didn't feel like that at the time, ultimately it was. Spiritual question. We've got our juices going now. Spiritual question, are you being led by life? Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. In a useful way, not in a passive, unconscious way. But what is life? Great, very large question. I guess where I'm coming from is, you know, we talk maybe on a more human level about intuition. Connecting and listening, connecting and listening. That's what we're doing with the body all the time. It's what we can do with our instincts so that we know what's the next course of action, what's really truthful for me. What that expands to for me is, am I listening to the universe as to what my next move is? Am I tuning in to a wider sense of awareness than just what I want from my brain? Um, my brain doesn't get much of a look in really. It's all the intuition. I mean, a lot comes from that felt sense and there are filters that that has to go through because I have responsibilities. I am a parent. I am a business, you know, multiple business owner. There are responsibilities and I always look at those through then the intuition. So what, how can we get as close to. What that calling is, that's why I'm here. there's a, um, a phrase, my heart is in the highlands. Uh, I think it's a Robbie Burns thing, but anyway, my heart is, my, my, like, my heart is here. And my heart is also in Leeds because thrive with those people. Those people I was thinking, I've been thinking a lot about this, this. past weekend about the people and the feeling that I get when I'm with those people. Like I could reel off all the clients that just like, I can't wait to see them again. And I know that they all look forward to seeing me and it's more than just the movement. It's the energy that's shared between us and the relationship and the relationship beyond the studio because we We experience with people in our community every element of their life and death. We have everything in that community. And it's so important to me. So my, my heart is in the Highlands and my heart is in Leeds. And to make that happen, we worked really, really hard. to save and save and save so that we could have a little bit this place in Scotland and we have our little little place here so that I know that I can have my heart here and I can have my heart there and I can give in both places and receive in both places. You said the last time that we connected for the podcast, you, you mentioned and really reinforced for the listeners that everything is possible. Oh, yes. I find that a lot of the time, even for the people that are listening, uh, The first challenge is in accessing the desire or the instinct or the vision, but the second roadblock is actually some story that they will have about the capacity for that to come into reality or how deserving they are or it is to channel energy towards and it's something that you can so beautifully easily drop through if you're willing because it is a construct. A belief that you have about the world but it is for a lot of people an enormous roadblock and, you know, we were talking earlier about choosing your models wisely. My sense of you is that for a lot of people, you are a model of what is possible. Absolutely conscious of it. And even coming and being here, you know, I am away from my studio for six weeks. That's a long time. It's a big deal. And every single time I come away, whether it's for 48 hours or for six weeks, I have to do my own work on being okay with that. Because I know that for some people that's shocking, or how, there's questions around that. And if I don't do that, those questions still exist. If I don't step away, the belief then is that if you own a studio, You have to be there 24 7. It's brutal and it's da da da da da and it just, you know, it's burnout and it's all those things. I want to show that you can have a studio and it can be joyous. You can have gorgeous humans that come and want to be part of what you've created, the, the community that you created, and then it becomes an A entity of itself, it is not your face, it's, it's not your, it's not you, it's, it's this melding of gorgeousness. that means that everybody involved, client and teacher, they own it. It's theirs. And then I can step away so I can then have the freshness that I need to envision and receive the inspiration for the next phase of growth or creativity or whatever is going to come next for the studio. But if I am only in it, I cannot see it, I can't serve it, I can't support it in the same way. It's fundamental and it applies, as you say, to anyone working in any profession, that they have to be willing, if they're creating an entity, the entity itself has to have its own full ecosystem. Right. Make it in such a way that they're able to step away. And if we go back to that idea that I'm not here to fix my clients, you know, there is a sense of, uh, I have to not consider myself to be, or create my business in such a way where I am utterly and solely responsible and essential in order for it to live for a day. There has to be space for it to breathe on its own. And of course, don't get me wrong, I've also been there, which is why I want to be here, because I've been, that's why, you know, in, you know, in that moment where I had to make the decision that I'm choosing my family, I want to show the world I am choosing my family, that I can prioritize them and I can cultivate a healthy studio as well as a healthy family. I am, I'm reminded that you and I did the same, uh, little experience with a chap in the States called James Wedmore. And one of the things that he taught about was, uh, he did this quite sobering, uh, self analysis tool where you look at how you spend your time, the number of hours you spend in your business and the activities that you do. And you identify through a little mathematical calculation, uh, what you are, what the, the earning potential of the tasks that you spend the majority of your time doing is. And the reason that it was so sobering is that the majority of people who did that test realized that even though they consider themselves to be, or may in fact entitle, be the leaders of their business, the CEO, actually what they're spending the majority of their time doing are roles that are much more the overworked and underpaid employee. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And it was quite radical for a lot of the people that did that training. And, uh, what he immediately recommended is that if there are tasks that you can outsource, get really comfortable with outsourcing. Let go of the perfectionism and the, um, internally sort of, uh, aggrandizing feeling that you have to be the one that's in charge of all of it. And so allow it to grow. And so you've just reminded me of that. And given that we're sort of talking around and about leadership, I wonder, uh, if you'd be happy to share for the listeners, either whether we're talking about business leadership or whether we're talking about self-leadership, which is just as important. And the two things that intimately connected. Mm-Hmm. give us five top principles or values to hold and to commit to as a leader. Nourishing, I mean, whether it comes to business or, you know, just life in general, to lead, I think that we have to nourish ourselves first. So knowing. what it is that nourishes you and committing to those things on whatever regularity that needs to be for you. I think it's vital and I think there can be, um, some guilt. I know I've had guilt, so that's why I say I know I've had some guilt about looking after myself. Um, and now I have some very rigorous routine. It's around my own nourishment and what I need to be able to be a good mum, to be a good leader, to be, you know, who I want to be in the world because it isn't different. Um, so I think that's really, really important. Um, I also believe in community so much, so much. And I think, you know, there's that kind of old fashioned saying, a problem shared is a problem half, but I don't even think it pertains to problems. I just think be in community and share because sometimes as you're in the vacuum of your own brain, things seem insurmountable. And then you say it out loud and somebody else has a different perspective, which allows you to see what's possible. And I'm a possibility viewer. I see what is possibility possible. Um, I also think, so that's two things. Third thing I would say is about creativity, finding opportunities to be creative. in whatever that is to you. You don't have to be an artist to draw something but make something, craft something, sew something, build something with stones. We do a lot here when we're on the beach of building little things with the stones on the beach and things and you know whatever that might be to to to. stimulate that creative part of you because it's that that we need to solve problems. And if you're a movement teacher as we are, you're, you're a problem solver. You need to be creative. And, you know, I was really aware very recently of, um, being in session with a group and it was all teachers and They all kept saying, you know, how did you think about doing it like that? I would never have thought about using that prop in that way and springing it like that. And now it makes so much sense. It's because I stimulate my creativity, always have done, regularly, so that I can see outside the box. And also, your own. personal development. So the fourth thing I would say is we're never going to be done. You're never going to have learned at all. And if you can just, uh, be okay with that, just go, Oh, there is no end to learning. Perfect. That's it. Permission to always be a beginner. Because if we have that thing on our shoulder going, Oh, you know, somebody knows more than you and they're better than you. Which so often is the case with a, you know, with a novice. teacher or a newbie in business or whatever it might be. But if you just go, oh, there's always going to be more to learn. Okay. Make space. Make space. Look for opportunity to, to learn that new thing that is required as you go to the next level of business or teaching or whatever. Just know that that's going to come and make space. And maybe that means, you know, so things that I do practically to make space for, for learning is I put money aside. So that I know when something comes up, I can afford to do that thing. I factor in time to be able to do that thing. And for me and, you know, Team Sparrow, we have family meetings. And maybe this is, this is the fifth thing, you know, we decide by committee. Because I might be the leader, whatever. But. We decide by committee. I think that's the most amazing, powerful list and the one that, um, well, two things really came up for me listening to you. Thank you so much for sharing them. Um, one of them was, uh, particularly point four, where you were talking about being willing to be a learner and what was really striking me is that in the best circumstances, a leader elects themselves in one sense, but is also elected. by the community and has to be regularly re elected, you know, there's this constant checking into homeostasis, like, are all of the organisms and organs working, right? And I suppose in that respect, is there still a good ethical agreement between all of the parties that this works and that we're willing to continue to contribute to the vision? Because, you know, every employer knows that you have to have really good sign on by every, Involved, like my, my team has expanded to three, um, which is extremely exciting because you know, last year it was one, it was me. Um, but actually in choosing those people, the, the, the fit has been so critical, not just having to fit my vision, but me working with their visions and what they need from this partnership. Cause that's what it is. And what was striking me there is that you are someone that arrives in this space, certainly now, pretty full, pretty comfortable with being your size. and I love that. And I know that, you know, you also have moments of real quiet and solitude, and you go inwards and you retreat in a very healthy way. But a lot of the time you have to stand outwardly and be comfortable with being of that size. And I suppose that was coming up for me in thinking about this learning thing, because so much of the time when people go into a learning space, they will create some kind of story around the idea that either they should already know what it is, or the people that they're learning from are experts and therefore on a greater pedestal, and therefore they should be on a lower pedestal. And I'm wondering if you could speak to, How do we maintain, how do people learn to maintain their size? in spaces where they are receiving and in learning? Um, it's so, so, learning is just, uh, is fascinating because we've all had so many different experiences of, of education in the formal sense, you know, going through schooling and the experiences of schooling and how In school, it's a very one size fits all model, and I think as we go beyond that formal schooling, I think if we can shed that and begin again as an adult, that new version of yourself will be more open to receive and learn because you are not the child that went through that type of education. And that's what I say that because that's what I have done and I've had to do because my learning style did not fit school and I was, you know, I had a very difficult time at school and was not diagnosed as dyslexic and various things through my schooling. It wasn't until I was doing my second degree and studying dyslexia that myself and my tutor said, you know, Hmm. This is interesting. And, you know, I think that when you understand that school learning is separate, it's not the same thing as adult learning, that moving into an adult learning environment with curiosity versus right wrong mentality, because Usually there really isn't, you know, I'm so involved in, in the fascia community and biotense equity that it's, everybody's just curious. That's, that's all we can be because there isn't a hard and fast. So can we go in with the, with the open mindedness that even the educator in question, whoever is teaching you, the leader, they're also just being curious and working out together and maybe if the environment is. You know, if it's an educator that is dictating right and wrong, maybe that's not the environment for you. Like, I wouldn't want to be in that environment. I've been in that environment. It doesn't work for me because I'm a questioner. And that's why I teach in a questioner's perspective. Yeah, you're um, you're not doing the, believe me, you're doing the, this is what I've discovered. This is what we are exploring. Try it out and see. Don't just believe me, try it out and see and see if it fits for you and see what you learn. Yeah. It's the distinction between self power versus power over, you know. When we're in self power then connection is beautiful and it's vital And power over is really just a very good way for me of hiding the fear that lives underneath that says I have to dominate in order to be safe. Yeah, and we've all been in those situations. Yeah. All of us have. It's good to highlight. Yeah. Well, and, and you get to a stage like you're saying, where it speaks to the responsibility piece. You get to a stage where you're willing to take responsibility for the fact that that might've been the model that you learned or were exposed to. And you get to both be in spaces and perpetuate spaces, which represent a different choice. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Money. It was in. Sorry. I was just going to say it was interesting also what you were saying about, um, making decisions as a collective and, um, like, you know, we do our team, Team Sparrow kind of collective decision, but we, We apply the same thing at the studio and you know you mentioned the need for people choosing and re electing and we do it regularly as a studio and as we're embarking on a phase of change with our studio, the leases coming up for renewal and as we're I choose or don't choose to make the commitment to sign the lease because I will hold the commitment of that legality. It's not my decision to make, it's the decision of all of those people who are invested in what are the people that are going to be coming, continuing along this journey and what changes would they like to make as we go through into this new phase, which we will be doing. And we, you know, we met so that people would have the opportunity to say, well, I'd like it to be like this, or I don't think I want to carry on being invested in this way or whatever, so that we know what we're committing to with them. I think it's profound. I'm um, I don't know if you know this, I'm running my first training this September, which is the most Beautiful, delicious opportunity and people have been nudging me to do it for a while and I was just resisting I've stepped into the limelight, And I think a lot of the women that have come into the space so far have been surprised by the level to which we have invited them to share what would be the most meaningful outcomes for them. What would they most love to learn about within this? How would they like to learn? Would they like to connect in person at some stage? You know, we've, we've really brought them into the planning process so that as this experience, because the orientation of it is deep self knowing, deep mind body connection and really profound tools to take their next transformation step. They have to be a hundred percent involved in that. Yeah. They're going to know what's going to be useful for them on those levels. And so, yeah, I've had some very sweet feedback from people saying, Oh, this is. This is really unusual. I'm not just being dictated to. And isn't that huge? You know, I'm working in that way all of the time with whole body pelvic health because it is so common for that surprise. Where women are used to just being separate to the decision making process about their health care, you know, that they're, that they're being told things are being imposed upon. I had one woman recently who said, Oh, well, I can't run. Oh, okay. Why, why, why can't you run? Well, the. medical professional told me I can't run. Okay. So is that true? Can you not run? Have you run? Have you been out? And they ran the next day and were completely fine. No problem. Of course. It's huge and it's hugely important that, you know, particularly I'm working with women as I think you are too, that we give women the tools because we don't inherently have them. We are not in a culture where we are learning those tools as we grow and we're not learning ourselves as we grow. in all of the ways. So it's a vital, vital role that you and I both play for women. Very much. Uh, and it's, you know, it kind of speaks to the way in some respects that our own learning becomes then what we teach, which is always the case. I was also just reflecting as you were talking on the joy of gifting, um, I had, I've had the opportunity, I made a decision that there would be one scholarship for this program, and I felt the call of who that was meant to be for, and she had not asked. It came very unexpectedly, and of course she burst into tears and is delighted and is coming to join us, and I think that has given me the greatest joy in all of bringing this together. Sensing how much change will come for and also as you say that was the first time, the first time she's ever been given anything like that ever, you know, so it just it really has me reflecting on how integral that is the gifting once you're in a position where you can give to not give when you can give cuts you off from the love that I think you and I is the literal heartbeat of what we do. I'm gonna ask you. to just talk about that topic as our final theme for today. Can you talk to us about love? Ah, love is everything. I mean, my book was called Hope, Hope for Your Pelvic Floor, but hope and love are intertwined to me and are everything. And it's the, the biggest gift that we can give to people, you know, giving someone whatever it might be, whether it's gifting a scholarship or giving information to someone that they had not been given before that allows them to make an informed choice. That is a hundred percent love, right there. It's so much in the receiver, you know, we talked before about exchange, it's, it's a bouncing back and forth heart to heart. It's not just the giver the gift gives you so much joy, gives you love. It's not just joy. It gives you love in return. Every time. someone emails me and tells me the impact of something I've said, something they've read in my book, something they've heard on a podcast or class they've done with me or whatever it might be, I feel that love and it gives me more love to return. It's like the foundation that allows you to live. I mean, quite literally is that. Um, and of course it's a foundation to healthful connection. You know, I was reminding a client today that your heart is the most powerful organ in your body, physiologically speaking, that it's electromagnetic field is more powerful than the brain by over a hundred times. And we've gotten into a habit, a very trancing and seductive habit of like you said using the brain and I love that you were like my brain does not get a look in because You know, there is a wiser intelligence that we are now scientifically understanding the reason, but we've known within spiritual community for hundreds of years, thousands of years. Absolutely. My darling human, I am going to love you and temporarily leave you to your little, to your little. And I hope that your future involves some outdoor swimming at some point soon. And it will. From the bottom of me, I just want to thank you so much for being with us. It has been such a treat to have you. Thank you for coming. Oh, you're very welcome. I hope that your listeners have found some little valuable nuggets in there today in our conversation. They will have. They will have. And I trust that listeners, you will let us know what you loved, what you would love more of, and any ways that Claire or I can support you. I'll make sure you have all of her details, all the ways to get involved in her wonderful work in the show notes. And you can always reach out to me or her to check. I will speak to you and be on the ways with you again soon for another episode. And in the meantime, please receive the love that we have for you. Yeah. gorgeous listeners. Thank you. So. So. much. For your ears. I hope. You enjoy today's. today's. episode. To find. More about our. Featured guests. Have a look in the show. Notes.