How to Optimise your Mind - Executive Coach Felix Hirschburger on human potential, radical embrace and the capacity to find meaning in each and every moment

Gorgeous Listeners, welcome to this week’s episode of Finding Your Way Home,

Today's episode is a rare insight into the mind and philosophy of a seminal figure in my own learning - Executive Coach, Entrepreneur and unspoken spiritual teacher, Felix Hirschburger. 

Felix was among our early podcast guests, and his insights on how to re-wire the mind while optimising the body made him one of our most popular guests.  

Today, we welcome Felix back to the studio for an even deeper conversation - on human potential, the holistic toolkit for deep personal~professional growth and how to embrace the rippled nature of your individual journey. As a business figure, Felix is known for his calm assurance, strategic mind and entrepreneurial leadership. As a human - for the generosity and grace to arrive with others in true openness, curiosity and compassion. His evolution as a father has been as foundational to this spirit of care as his work as a Coach - as you will hear. 

Together we discuss: 

• The surprise and surrender of a lifelong journey toward deeper self - and how to find meaning in both the joy and challenge
• Learning to embrace professional growth - whether you're in a period of momentum, or a forced pause. And, what happens when we can cultivate equanimity to it all.  
• The body as a vessel for not only greater consciousness but rewiring the stress response, welcoming calm, experiencing delight
• Psychedelic journeys - the benefits, the pitfalls and what peak experiences can cultivate for those called to the path

As ever, I am left moved and inspired by time with this incredible man - I know you will be too. 

To find out more about Felix's work:

Find him on Instagram: @felixhirschburger
Visit his website: https://www.hirschburger.ch/
Check out Optimal Mind: https://optimalmind.io/

Stay connected with the podcast:

Thank you for listening; it means the world to us. We'd be so grateful if you could rate, review or share this gorgeous episode with someone you love. That small act brings us to new ears and eyes - it builds the movement of health and connection that FYWH is built on. 

For more information and upcoming news on the podcast, follow us on  @ab_embodiment and our website. 

And to explore working together more deeply:

• Join our free newsletter for insights, events and self-healing resources.
• Apply for an Early Bird place on the Embodiment Coaching Certification 2025 - taking your work as a Practitioner to a new level of depth, ease and impact. 
• Secure your space at our beautiful retreat in Costa Rica this Autumn. 6 days of sacred ceremony, moving you into the body, into the heart and through the emotional / historic blocks that have held you back. Prepare for a depth of connection you have never felt, in one of the most magical landscapes in the world. Be with us...

Sending love, wherever this finds you,

Ax

Transcript

Anthea: 0:00

Welcome to Finding Your Way Home, the secrets to true alignment. I'm your host, Anthea Bell, movement teacher, mind body coach, and lifelong spiritual seeker. This is a podcast about the depth, weight, and profound healing power of connection between mind and body, spirit and soul, and from one human to another. Together with an incredible range of inspiring guests, we'll explore just what connection and alignment mean. How to get there in a world full of the temptation to conform, and how great challenge ultimately can lead to life changing transformation. Get ready for groundbreaking personal stories, conversational deep dives, and a toolkit of strategies to build not just your inner knowing, but your outer world. Let's dive in.

0:48

Welcome, gorgeous listeners, to another beautiful, beautiful episode of Finding Your Way Home. We are here with a very special return guest, and I can tell you, those that are not watching us on YouTube or seeing a clip, my face is grinning from ear to ear because this guest is particularly dear to my heart. Felix Hirschberger. Felix is a phenomenal executive coach with an incredible gamut of experience across a really diverse range of different clientele from business folks, entrepreneurs, really major corporations, to individuals like you and me that are in their own way working to put their dreams out into the world. He has a real span of expertise across not just coaching, but Really actively using the body, the energetic systems, the breath to harness the full optimal capacity of a human being. And he is the co founder of Luma Empowering People, which is his own coaching organization. And of course, Optimal Mind, an incredible organization that Works internationally really to reduce the amount of strain and unnecessary pain in how people navigate the world. The clue is in the name, Optimal Mind, this concept of coming back to what is essential, what is supportive, what is truly aligned. And those of you that know me well know that that is also in my heart space. So Felix, thank you so much for being back with us. I can't wait to have this conversation with you. Thank you so much, Anthea, and it's such a great pleasure to meet you again, to see you again, to listen to this incredible introduction. So I'm, yeah, very grateful for your words and, honored to be here. And, yeah, I'm just looking forward to our conversation and Let's see where it flows. Yeah, so this is sort of the nature of our chats is that when you drop into deep presence and resonance with another person, it just gets to come. And I know, I don't know if you find this Felix, but sometimes when we're working with people newly, that concept of Just being in presence and listening for the words that come through you as a practitioner or that come through you as a client. It can feel a bit unfamiliar, a bit too close to the unknown, which of course for nervous system and brain can often be perceived as somehow slightly dangerous. I wonder what your journey was with coming to a place where you feel comfortable enough to be in. co creative presence and just to hold the space and see what appears. Yeah, you put it so perfectly This kind of space of really being in touch with whatever is going on in this situation right now, you and me, which is also the case then with my clients. With my coaches or when I train leaders, or train leadership coaches, I mean, there's so many techniques and practices and methods,, which are helpful, which are important, but the real essence is happening, in presence, from presence, There is such a. An elegant, unique, wonderful, perfectly aligned power that flows through and probably the way to practice that and, to allow yourself to dive into that because it's, it can be scary because you don't know what's going to happen, right? It's, it's just really, with small tiny steps practicing it. In an environment, you can trust and with someone, you share this passion to explore that and experience that. And then, like, when we did training together we sensed that, wow, that's such an incredible power and, perfection that flows from this space. Into conversation into situations, into life when you're really allowed to just stay there and be there and act from there. And, and this gives you then the courage and, and also, you know, kind of experience of, wow, this, I just want to do more of that. And so it's a practice way but usually we completely trained the other way around. So it needs, some courage to start with in a good environment. I love that you're touching on two things that I have on my actual paper list to talk to you about. The first one I think is arguably the most important. In, in Optimal Mind and the organization, its earlier version was called Psychological Fitness, which is relevant to the question. You know, we talked a fair amount about creating a context for the client or for my Partner or for my child of both psychological and physiological safety. And I think that that is a really critical piece of the conversation around being in presence. Ultimately, if I do not feel safe, me within my body, me within this context between us, it's difficult to settle into true presence because actually what's firing in both the nervous system, in the physiology, and in the mind is Watching out for danger, looking to avoid it, trying to work out what kind of a person do I need to be in order to please the other person on the other end. It gets very computated and very effortful, as you would say. So I'd love for you to just describe to the audience, what does psychological physiological safety mean as far as you understand it, given that this is one of the things you train people in. Yeah. So for me, it's really fundamentally it's like the state of. With myself of always welcoming whatever is going on, on the inside right now, you know, like sensing this excitement of being here, for example, right now, just talking to you and, and knowing that, this is listened by other people. And, and it, I mean, it's such a privilege. So I'm not just, you know, just neutral completely, with equanimity I'm really excited. So how does that feel, what's going on on the inside and being with that and allowing that to be, and to really, being grateful to that because by sensing that in my system, by tuning into that. By welcoming it, by softening into it, by allowing it to be, this immediately brings me into presence. And I think this is then also what people sense on the other side immediately that it's not like he's not coming from a strange, dangerous place of, some kind of programmed material. he tries, he doesn't try to protect himself or try to be in, in subtle ways, aggressive or whatever. It's just. Really from this state of sensing into whatever is going on on the inside and, and being okay with it, allowing it to be, and through that being in presence and then reconnection is, is just inevitable. It's just. What, what happens then, right? The, the welcoming concept and practice, and it is for me a practice, is a fascinating one because what I find even within me in the moments where I am the most nervous of an emotion or a surge that comes up within me, and I still get that now, I've been practicing this for, yeah, over four years, but I still get it now,, is at the moment of the surge, I am, as a human being, the most inclined to want to shut it down. And what we do is we do all of these wonderful overlaying techniques, almost to try to pretend to the self and therefore pretend to the other person that in fact this is, this is not what's happening. And you and I were smiling because when we landed on the call before I turned on the record button, I saw you and my whole body just smiled. Full bloom. I felt the tingling in my cells. I felt myself wanting to open, posturally. It's like a deep recognition of, ah, this is a person that I have deep heart care for. and it's taught me a lot. And so the gratitude there for me becomes a very embodied experience. And the Anthea that was about 10 years ago would have cognitively, from a place of conditioning, assumed that that was Unwanted want. Inappropriate non adult. Not the level of deference that would be due to someone who had been somewhat of a mentor. And I would have tried to shut it down. And in shutting it down, I would have cut off not just my own energy and life force, I would have really limited the terrain between you and I because I'm spending half of my energy trying to quash whatever inappropriate emotion I feel that I'm having. And what happens when we welcome is that we actually, it's like a softening that allows us to acquiesce, honor, even enjoy whatever is arising, which then means that it passes or it naturally evolves really very quickly. You're no longer in a position where you're trying to resist anything, you've just naturally moved into the next state of flow that's being presented. Does that resonate with your experience? Absolutely. I think that's wonderfully put and, and also meets very much connected with With, kind of smiling, I mean, out of smiling, like what is happening right now and what happened when we met,, the first seconds moments of our call, I mean, it was just there, as you mentioned, and it is still now and, and it's like, not just around your mouth, it's around the eyes and it's really also, especially on the inside, it's, Smiling on the inside, relaxing, softening on the inside to, to all that, what, what is going on right now in the moment and, and even, I mean, it's always so easy when, you know, like when I see people like you, it's just, and then there's the flow there and, and on the other side, can I do the same when I feel unsecure or kind of threatened or kind of, You know, someone really is, is, is showing that he's not interested, or whatever it is, what's going on on the inside and how can I be there present with it? And, and I think coming back to your question before, let's start with those people where it's pretty easy and, and getting familiar to this and, and then., more and more it becomes easier with people, all around and with circumstances, that's, that life throws at you, which are, you know, uncomfortable, difficult, yeah. And as you said, this is just, a never, never ending practice, I really believe that's, that's the practice. Yeah. I think what's really beautiful about what you're describing and also what I know happens as you go deeper into this lifetime of work, which does to me feel like, it's both a psychological practice and in some ways it's a spiritual, self connective, universe connective practice, is that you gain a Deep degree of empowerment, agency, because if we're always attending to our own ecosystem and using the material that we feel coming from others as a way of learning more about what are my responses, what's my content, what's my, you use the word kryptonite, what's, what's my kryptonite, what's the thing that trips me up. then less and less do we place our safety or our success or our identity or our value in the hands of another. And I feel it's a really important question even in the realm of practitioners and coaching because so much of the time I see and support people who are still, despite being in a practitioner role, placing an enormous quite fragile amount of their ego security In how they are received by their clients or how successful financially they are at the end of Each and every quarter. And because that's so premised on the outsides, on the material, that is external to truly you, it's very difficult to gain any sense of mastery over. Whereas in Optimal Mind, my sense is, you bring the mastery back to the agent over here, and in a way of compassion and humility, you say, well, I start here. Absolutely. it's all about in a leadership and, in a leadership in the sense of kind of having a mastery, our own mind, plus of our nervous system. And this is, this is really, as you, as you said, it's a, it's a lifelong journey, that's a training. But, I really believe that. When you can train, you know, yourself in, in just, tuning to different mind states and regulating better and better your own nervous system, that's just the place where. Where everything really becomes completely different way, how we work in the way, how we interact because,, yeah, we can only do something there, right? That's, we can only start with ourselves and, and then we co create together in coaching sessions, in trainings. when talking to someone in a shop or whatever is happening in your life. Then, the real magic can, can happen or the potential starts to be there that something can happen, maybe nothing at all, you know, happens from there, but, but at least, it's, it's, it's a great starting point and we can only. Be,, you know, kind of ourselves be, be the starting points there. There's no other way. Right. And I would love for the listeners, maybe those that are less familiar with this realm of physiological insights. Could you explain to them the relevance of this nervous system piece? I imagine that when you go into executive coaching, especially if you're doing that for, you know, major leaders, they may have learned at some point that they have a nervous system, but they won't understand why them training it is going to be useful for their position as an executive or for how they lead the team or for how successful the corporation is. Give us a sense for those that don't know what is the relevance of the nervous system to this piece around internal mastery. Yeah. Maybe I could talk so, so long around it about it. It's, it's, it's so, so crucial. So essentially, maybe just, just, an example from today, today, over lunch, I was, with a client. In, in the lake of Zurich,, around, probably six degrees Celsius, right now., and he, he was never, ever doing that. He hates the cold, he hates cold showers or whatever. I mean, some people train for that, but then ultimately they go maybe, in an ice bath or whatever., So. We stepped in and I mean, I, I, I briefed him obviously, and I told him that the body and his nervous system will react intensively and really wanting to, to scream and going into,, you know, kind of emergency mode. So his breath will react. He will kind of joke almost and, and the way how. He can really work with it is by, you know, kind of tuning into that and tuning into his breath. So kind of using his breath to relax his nervous system in the moment and realizing that something which is perceived by the nervous system as a big threat, the cold water, which is, I mean, Of course, it's really dangerous if you stay too long there., And realizing that even though he never trained that, he's able together with me, of course, in, in, in this situation to calm down his breath, to relax in the moment, to tune into the connection from his hands to his thighs and realizing that there's some warmth there. This relaxes, his breath again. And after a minute or so, he was really able to enjoy the situation to be there in this ice cold water and, and, and just being able to the kind of,, being able to regulate. His nervous system, so his parasympathetic nervous system got activated in such a difficult situation and there they kind of fully realized that this cold water is just the proxy for stress and strain and difficulties in their business life or in their whole life, maybe also private life. And they have now a tool to downregulate this, hugely activated nervous system with breath. And I really, really love breath and I really love cold and I really love environments and situations that are physical. People sense that what's going on on the inside, because this knowledge, this insight then has been kind of. ingrained in their body, in their nervous system. And they, they can make use of that afterwards when they're in a difficult business situation, for example. So I really try to, to make it very concrete, tangible that they cannot, you know, just talk themselves out of it because they have all those strategies learned so well, in their past. And I suppose the example would be, If you're in a stressful business situation or you're in a, an activated romantic conversation, the likelihood if your nervous system is activated, so let's say you're in your sympathetic fight flight, or even for some people if they're in sort of the fall and freeze response, they're going to be operating from adaptive strategy. So their, their, their body and their mind is going to be directing them to say, To posture, to act in such a way that creates a feeling of safety. And that is not always the response over which we have agency. It's not something that we, that we're in charge of. And because a lot of it is adaptive, a lot of it is regressive. And so this is where so many people, and, you know, I'm sure you have this with clients as well. They come and they say like, I knew what I was meant to do in this scenario and just the emotions overwhelmed me and I just could not, but snap. Or slam the door or, or repress it and then get really angry when someone cut me up in the road. So what you're describing is then these practices that allow us to practice symbolically, how can I regulate myself when I go into a state of stress? And if we can do it in the cold water or we can do it through breath work, then the likelihood of that carrying over is actually very strong. think the other thing that's really relevant to this conversation and, You and I haven't talked about it in detail but I would love to, is this question of what happens to our neurobiology, so kind of dopamine, any of the other sort of neurochemicals and hormones that go through the system. Particularly I'm interested in the dopamine factor because a lot of the modern study and focus at the moment is looking at how we have as societies become incredibly used to very easy access to pleasure and very minimal access to pleasure. effort in useful directions to merit the reward that we then achieve. Doping is obviously the thing, it's our seeking, chemical. And my understanding is that doing a practice like breathwork or doing a practice like cold immersion or any other form of exertion, like you've run, ultra night marathons, that there is a benefit for that in retraining our pleasure hitting Tendencies, which again creates a little bit more psychological balance in any environment that we find ourselves in. Am I right in understanding that the higher our stress levels, the more we're going to be seeking rewards? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's, that's so true and, and that's why I also, you know, I just really often come, come back to those. Very simple tools and techniques that I know the kind of, the kind of work, you know, it's, it's like also when myself, when I, when I, you know, before going into, ice cold water, I mean, of course, I ask myself, why am I doing this? No, no, it's, I don't like it. I still don't like it. You know, it's, it's kind of,, it's really difficult, but, but after having done, you just sense the power of it. I mean, I was today I was in and I still feel this, this, you know, the neurochemistry just changed and not just for a quick moment, but really it lasts for quite a while and it doesn't drop back down, to, to place. Um, you know, below kind of the threshold where, where we started. So which happens when, when you use auto substances,, actually in, in every, in every situation, so. I think working with cold, working with breath for me, just proved to be, to be so, so powerful and, and work, each and every time. And, and I believe, you know, like, I mean, there's so many studies around that, but I, I just sensed, you know, it's working for me, it's working for my clients and, And that's why I really do it. And, and coming back to what, what you said before, you know, even though I know, for example, that,, okay, whenever I'm, we call it below the line, you know, whenever kind of my sympathetic nervous system is highly activated or. I kind of shut down, dorsal vagal is activated or whatever is going on., Oh yeah, now it's the moment to, to, to use the practices. And of course I'm in a completely different state where I don't have access to my intelligence and to all those good ideas and practices and methods. And having trained that before in difficult situations, or let's say like. In, in the cold or maybe with a regular breath work, automatically the body realizes what's going on. The system realized the nervous system realizes what's going on. And I've trained in that. So the chances are so high that just in that moment, deep belly breaths start. to happen just by itself. And that's, that's amazing. The first time I realized that this is actually going on, I was so, so kind of almost, I was so shocked, you know, that this is really going on already after like having done that for two weeks or something, it's not a month long training you need to go through. It's, it's happening quite. But fast, actually, if you, if you do it regularly and, and these people start to realize. Quite quickly. It's working. It has an impact and and I need that when I work with with those people, you know, they they want to see results quite fast and quickly. and then they they super committed and and so diligently working, towards this direction. I'm always amazed, but they need to see that something is is happening in this direction. And, that's why it's, it's a powerful tool for me. Yeah. What's really lovely in what you're describing is just the way that the body is such a rapid tool to overcome the limitations of the mind and I'm really aware that sitting behind you on the back of your door is a thing that I've obviously seen for the past however many years that says your only limit is your mind. I'd love it if you would walk us through a little bit of the distinction between below the line sub optimal mind. Optimal mind, which is your mission statement in the world. What's the difference for a lay person that hasn't come across your work before? So whenever we are below the line, we are operating from, you know, from conditioned programming, which has been learned. Usually in, when we were a child or when we were adolescents trying to cope with, you know, the messiness of life and the difficulty and trying to get by and so we're getting back into this habits into this programming. And usually, you know, we're just reacting in not that ideal, optimal, ways and usually, kind of enhancing those, those patterns, and yeah, so we kind of get stuck there. And when we realize that this is going on, that you're no longer in flow, that you're no longer in connection, that you're no longer, sensing what's going on with you and the environment, that maybe your creativity just isn't. Blocked or, you know, longer, have straight thoughts, no connection to your emotion, whatever it is. You know, whenever you sense something like this is going on, maybe you, you're listening to someone and you don't want to listen any longer. You just want to, you know, bring your words in and tell them what they should be doing. And we've been telling them that already 10 times and they didn't get it. You know, the first signs that tell you that, okay, it's happening, that, that you take something, which is maybe, you know, could be a double, double inhale to something that causes you in that moment, something that You know, you trained before and coming back to, you know, breath work, doing regular breath work, outside of those situations. Um, so maybe take a double inhale and just relax, you know, counting from five, four, three, two, one into your lower belly and just staying there in the lower belly. And bye. And having your nervous system kind of relaxed in that moment, soft eyes, soft tongue, counting down from five, four, three, two, one, being in a low valley and being there automatically you kind of move above the line and you move into an optimal mind state, which is based on presence, but actually you can still use your Functional mind, tools, which are, you know, like thinking and analytically planning or whatever it is, all these wonderful, prefrontal cortex, qualities. You can use from presence, right? So, and then you're back, you know, in the game, kind of in the flow of things, you're being in touch with yourself, with, with, the person,, you're talking to, or with the group you're working or whatever it is. And, until you get hit by something else and you drop down back again. And so this is kind of something that is happening maybe two, 300 times a day., and, and the idea is really to watch very, very closely and, and, and just having this one intention, maybe in the morning, okay, whatever. I'm realizing I don't listen anymore or whatever it is, kind of this below the line indicator, I pause and shift above the line. I center myself with, for example, this practice I just mentioned before. And, and so after a while it becomes. You know, kind of, it's rate change because it's, it's, you know, maybe you don't, you don't need 100%, but 51 percent has this threshold and all of a sudden it starts to happen. Automatically and, and yeah, and it's, it's, it's a lifelong journey there as well because life, kind of throws at you, kind of challenges and difficult situations and it's not always easy, right? It's sometimes it's really, really challenging to do that. It's not always easy, but it is critical to, it is critical to growth and to change to be willing to spot yourself and to do that from the loving presence that says, not I'm bad for this, but I want to make a choice about whether this is the driver and the imprint that I live through. You had me thinking about. You doing a TED talk, some of the clients that I know that you work with, and the degree to which your business has grown in the past sort of three, four years. Not to mention those moments of deep creativity where you're writing a book or you're designing a new program, etc. Those moments of being in flow, which is the other side of this conversation, that when you can get into optimal mind and into that. active presence with another person, or even just with yourself, that that creates such fertile ground for bringing something into the world. But I wonder, whether you'd be comfortable to share with us a few of the moments or experiences of having to move yourself above the line in order to meet a growth edge in your own life. Oh, there's so many, you know, there's so many, but just when you just mentioned before the TED talk, there was one moment in, in, in the TED talk, you know, because I didn't know that long before. The actual talk that, I'm going to be on stage and this is that I have this opportunity. So I didn't have a long time to prepare and, I still learn it by heart, my texts, what I want to say and, and, and obviously really difficult ideas that, On stage, it just don't know what to say. It just lost the thread and, he's standing there and there are no slides and okay, and there was one moment actually standing there and I was just waiting and in that moment, just behind me, something from some box or something just dropped down and that integrated that. into, you know, kind of made a little comment about it, joke about it, that, that there's a connection between kind of what's going on on the inside for me and what's happening right now. And so, so meaning just being very honest and truthful and authentic about what's going on in that moment. And all of a sudden it was gone. I could reconnect and it was, it was there again. At the same time, you know, just, in moments when the business apparently is not flowing that well, or, you know, you, you would have thought, Oh, with this client, this would have been a great, relationship and it would have been a great year to work together. And, and for some reason it won't work. you know, just seeing that as life in its perfection, because When, whenever I, I'm in nature or whenever I'm just observing what's going on on the inside, this, this kind of magic what's going on in our body or whatever it is, and I'm just observing what's, what's going on there. It's just so incredible, this, this magic, this perfection, this. Is wonder. so how can it be any different in, in just my own life situations? You know, how can it be not perfect that this is happening? Like it is happening. It is just the only way, again and again, remembering that this is happening, that this is going on, that this is life, the only way, the only perfect way. It's, it's too complex to see through,, from my limited, understanding and mind. So, thrusting into that. again and again, brings me back into, you know, kind of, okay, flowing with the current again. And, yeah. And here again, that's, that's, constant practice. It comes back to that theme of trust, doesn't it? We're willing to be in a concept of the universe, the flow, the journey, being one that is a benevolent teacher. And you know my story pretty well. The audience, I think, have a little touch of it. But when I was 29, I almost died. And that was a self imposed part and parcel, self imposed and also not self imposed early crisis. And of course, even although the run up to it and the aftermath were very painful, it's absolutely directed the trajectory of my life in a way that means that I would never be doing this, for example, had I not been through that. And I would never work with some of the women and men that I work with now, had I not had that equivalent experience that I'm now supporting them with. So I, I hold such high respect for the principle of respecting life in whatever way it chooses to show up. But what I do think we get to come back to, particularly in light of your work, is How do I choose to respond? Can I be making it a choice rather than following an automatic pattern that might not be in greatest service to what this is here to teach me? So there's a sort of a curiosity, a trust, a humility, and also a radical responsibility taking that I think not everyone wants to do, but in my feeling of it, those that I am the most connected to. They have a grain of that. They always kind of want to be in some way the agent of their own destiny in co creation with the world around them. I have a question which is kind of related to this and not related to it. We've never talked about it before, but I am interested in conversations around other aspects of unknown, experience and sort of psychedelics is one of them. Personally for me, I have done one psychedelic journey and I'm not, for the listeners team, I'm not saying go and do that. I was very much led to that. It was in fact pretty involuntary for me. It was also profound experience, and I'm curious, as someone that lives a little bit in this world of surrender and exploration, whether you have any take on the psychedelic experience, whether it can be useful for creating that detachment from conditioned mind and that opening out into something more curious. what's your take? Yeah, I, I mean, I really believe it's, it can be a very, very potent and extremely powerful and, I mean, of course it needs to fit the situation, the person, but it can be so, so, suitable for, for exactly doing that because, you know, it leads you just. Always to those inner situations, which are maybe a bit stuck, which are a bit covered with some programming, but actually you don't want to have a look at it or and it shows you that quite closely and bluntly and directly into your face. and so what an incredible, wonderful opportunity to just, exactly practice that, you know, being with that, you don't have to do anything about it. You just have the chance to, to kind of, you know, step by step, getting in touch, allowing yourself to soften around it, to be with it. To curiously, find out a little bit more about it. not to change anything, not to, you know, finally get over this. How come it's still there, It's not possible. I've, I've, okay. Come this, couple of years ago already. No, it's still there. What's going on? just really being curiously with it and, allowing yourself to quietly listen to what's going on there and, and when you do that without any intention that you're doing this because you want this particular thing to change somewhere, door opens up and, and fantastic and very elegant. Solutions show up, all the time and, and for me, it's like working with those, plans or substances or whatever it is. It's just the perfect opportunity to, to train that in a very special environment, in a safe, protected environment. And,, and it's not about that. It's about this is the training field for life, right? And the same goes for deep breathwork experiences, where you can go exactly into the same direction. the same goes for, deep, hypnosis. Experiences the same goes when, you know, when you're in extreme situations, this can be in cold water. This can be in a sauna. This can be. So how can we be with that? And I think this is the most pressure thing. I'm, I'm, you know, I'm a student of, and I'm also better and better trying to find the words, you know, when I work with my clients, because This is where, where really the transformation, the magic happens. I really believe, psychedelics can be very powerful in this sense. Yeah. Part of why I asked you was because of that similarity between deep breath work states and the psychedelic journey. And it's interesting, you know, I love what you're signaling around, obviously safeguarding and making sure that you're doing that within a contained space. So for me, I am such a safety oriented person as a practitioner that I never let myself go into context, even for trainings where I don't have a, a deep feeling of. Being able to let myself be held, and actually instinctively, it's not easy for me to do that. I have a lot of experience of holding myself together, of guarding, of contracting into control. And so to let myself be open is, that's a work in progress. That's a path I think I will walk for the rest of my life. I started it ten years ago with prayer. When I realized that my way of operating had had led me to the place of, of almost leaving this world. So it started with that, almost that cosmic sense of letting go. And then incrementally, the cosmic has turned into human beings. And then now that that ended up last year, taking me more in toward the plant medicine aspects. So the first thing is around that. The sanctity the level of expertise, the understanding of the mission, because my understanding is that each and every plant has a slightly different mission, a slightly different impact. To be very respectful of the gravity of the decision that you're making. but I love what you were saying about not going in with an objective. You know, when I explored it, I had absolutely no objective, because I had categorically, internally stated that I would never do it. So, when it came to my table on an otherwise very unexpected trip in the US, I was doing it because I could feel that I had to, but not with any cognitive desire, and in fact, touching on one of the threads that we haven't fully articulated, but it's been coming throughout this conversation, it was a really brilliant way of facing my fear. So much of the time, what I see in the people that I work with, but also just in the world around me, is that we've become really habituated to listening to fear without believing that that's what we're doing, so that it's making our environments more and more regular, controlled, habituated, Which means that, of course, we lose the sense of self efficacy that says, Oh, I could, I could question this fear, or I could meet this fear, and I could watch to see what would unfold, and I could trust that the body of me and the soul of me and the love of me is enough to carry me through if it feels like an aligned decision. And so when I did that three day journey, the first piece of guidance that I was given was don't resist it. When you're in the experience, the worst thing that you can do, this is how it was phrased, the worst thing you can do is resist it. I did brilliantly with that on days one and day two, and then on day three, obviously, I resisted. Obviously, it became quite a painful experience, but was one that I needed to go through in order to see that grain within me. Without asking you to go into too much detail about your own personal experiences with it, I wonder if any of that resonates for you. Absolutely. I mean, that's, I think if you, if you're in such a state and And you're shown something and you want to walk away, you even run away., you know, it's just, it's just getting stronger and more intense. And, and so, yeah, it's such a fantastic teacher to, and I think really that's where perfect guides and the group, you know, the safety of, of a reading. Good group comes in, you know, to open up to, you know, go open up to those fears and just, you know, slowly but surely turning around, having a look again, you know, regulating your system there as well, your nervous system while doing that, obviously it's, it's happening in a special, state of mind, but, I think really this is this training and you, you're gonna, you're gonna find such a treasure on the inside, right? I mean, it's, you know, where your deepest fears lies. There's the, you know, the biggest treasures to find. That's, that's always the case. And I really believe also that's, we get shown all those, yeah, all those situations or areas where it's important to, to take a closer look. So clearly, because it's already happening in, in everyday life, of course, but, it's hard, hard to slow down. It's hard to, to really catch it. but I think when you get, you know, kind of. More, more advanced in, in, in those states, you will realize that, that life is the ceremony. I think we already touched on that the last, last, conversation, right? It's about life and it's just the training field for that. And the same, the same for me in, in meditation retreats. And I really believe also you can, you know, you can go into deep meditation, different forms where you can go exactly, towards these experiences and, and also it's all the time. It's about kind otr. trusting this, letting go, and really, you know, diving into this particular moment, this particular moment that, that shows up, which is, you know, as you described, it's, it. Usually it's, it's loaded with fear and with, anxiety and what will happen if I do that and will I lose my control and, yeah, it's such a fascinating, path. Yeah. The fear that I wanted to ask you about specifically. Was around fear of working towards your potential, or let's say it another way, working towards your dreams. You're obviously the co founder of two very successful organizations. I, I know that your executive coaching is, it's a premium service. I know that that may not have been what you would have imagined for yourself at the age of 18, 19, when you just first started your journey with these things. And. We're obviously meeting you at a stage of, of real success and outward creation. One of the things that I encounter very often with my clients is this trepidation about stepping outside of the good girl or good boy box and really working toward Whatever vision they have nestled somewhere in the depths of their heart. And for me, especially given the work that we've done together, that always strikes me as coming from the limited mind and often coming from the vulnerable child inside that hasn't quite been heard or seen or honored. I would love it if you could talk to the listeners a little bit about that topic, validating your dreams, being willing to work toward them and perhaps what you've learned. Wow. Yeah. And it's such a big, big topic and, and what, what came up initially when you mentioned that is, you know, like the fear of your own huge potential, your own greatness, your own,, genius in a way, but, but obviously there don't mean, you know, your, your ego and your personality. It's, it's really about what is powering all that. from behind and from, from the depths of, of, of, of life and this perfection we, we mentioned before. So it's rather kind of stepping out and stepping aside and, and letting this, this, huge force shine through. And, and I believe in my work, whenever this is happening, whenever I can step aside and, you know, guide someone, In a deep breath work session or hypnotherapy, or just also in a just regular conversation. And as, as we just started our conversation, it's, it's, it's, it's coming from presence. and, the magic can happen and people will sense that this is, this is something from a different, you know, different level., And you start to trust that strength and power,, more and more. So at least for me, it was, was the case and, and. Still now I have, you know, again and again, imposter syndrome and, you know, no, no, how can I be, you know, how can I charge, that amount of money or whatever it is, I mean, yeah, it's, it's still coming up at certain moments and then it's just so important to kind of, put yourself again, again, and again in those situations. Um, where actually this, this strength and this power can flow through you. Right. So., This is just a question of, of, of experience and, and practice, for me,, and what also came to mind when you asked this question is that, you know, like a couple of years ago, I always had like, my vision board and my goals and my, okay, next year, and this is the goal. And I want to. You know, achieve this and that, and in Q1, this, so, and I still have, I did something in this direction, you know, kind of my inner compass thing for, you know, 2024,, and, And, and, and this year now, where do I want to go? Where should my focus be? And so on. But it's, it's very much also kind of to not done from my head and from my projections, but really sensing into my system, into my body, listening to whatever feels right and having a deep trust in when I'm tuned into that, when I come again and again, back to, to myself, it will flow naturally to, into the best direction that, that it can flow. Can I, can I trust that, you know, am I open to at least experiment with that and try to, to dive in and, and, and trust., And, and for me, you know, more and more, it's, I cannot do otherwise, you know, and so this gives me more and more this security of kind of staying on this ground of equanimity, whatever happens. You know, when it feels difficult and painful or whatever, is it good or bad? Who knows? It, it is what it is. And it's, it's, it's just the only thing that can happen right now. And it's part of this big perfection. So It's the way and, and that's, that's good. I wonder if you were going to describe your mission statement, as you now understand it, the service that you're here to provide in the world, I wonder what that statement might be. It's, it's, it's so interesting you're asking this because it's, I sense in the beginning of the year, I have to go deeper into that. And, fundamentally it's, liberation for benefit of all beings. I mean, it's kind of this bodhisattva, bodhisattva wow, that resonates, so deeply and, And I just sense whenever, whenever I'm stepping into that, it just feels so, so good, you know, like just before our conversation, I had a, I had a phone call with a good friend who is going through such an intense, difficult time and it's it's, it's really easy in a, in a difficult situation and don't want to tell too much about it. And, and, and I knew actually tomorrow I should be working on something, for next week. And, and I asked him, Hey, is there anything I can do for you and, any support and. And he's right now he's not able to do his own washing. So,, so I will visit him tomorrow and, and, and, and support him there. And it just felt. Like the only thing to do, I couldn't do anything else. Right. And I don't want to say that this is happening all the time, right? Don't get me wrong. I still have to, to learn so much and, and sensing whenever this is happening, okay, that's the way, right? So, I really love that. Yeah. First of all, just sending some compassion to your friend. I'm so sorry for what he's navigating. And what I hear is this feeling of rightness to that instinct in you. And I have all of my own equivalents of that. You also reminded me of Ram Dass. I spent much of last year listening to tape after tape after tape of Ram Dass speaking, sometimes when he was definitely infused with some other substances. And, one of the periods of his life that he talks about very openly is the period when he goes to look after his, incapacitated father. And he chose to do that at a time when he had the opportunity to become even more ascetic and to go even deeper into, monastic sort of meditative practice on site in another location. And he felt the call to be of service and he went home and up until that point his relationship with his father had not, to my understanding, been particularly good. And he described it again and again and again as being his teaching. This period of time was his teaching, it was his active spiritual practice. And when I first went into, recovery, about 10 years ago, There's a wonderful phrase, and the phrase is faith without works is dead. It's like lead, because it is an action based experience, faith. It is, even the action as you say of taking a double inhale, that's an action of pausing. That's a commitment to yourself that you're wanting to connect to the deeper self on a deeper level in that moment, to gain yourself back. We spend, it seems to me, so much of our time losing ourselves that we've gone over there. I've got to get back. I kind of want to gently get back over here. Over here I have more vision. Over here I have more awareness of my aliveness., over here I get to experience everything in its fullness, in its perfect imperfection., And I think that that's what reorients us often. This was a priority. No. Priority literally means this is the most important thing in this moment. Great. Life has given me an infusion of something else. This is not priority. Oh, you lovely creature. We could talk for hours. I trust that we will have a lifetime to do exactly that. Yes, we will. Yeah. I wonder if there's any landing statement, any last message that you would like to leave the audience with, what came up when you were talking about on those. I mean, I think he asked his teacher and his guru about so how can I reach enlightenment. And I think he answered. By saying serve people and feed people. Right. And so, and this can mean so many different things. What are our, talents, and what are we passionate about, and without what are our strengths and, and how can we Kind of make use of those in the sense of, you know, giving something to people around you, to the world, to make it some kind of a better place. and so what is it for you? Right. And, and, and then it's like, not just staying in your own mind and pondering it, but really making the first steps. and experiments and, and, and always, whenever I work with people who are going through such a process and time of, Oh, what should I do? And what is my, you know, whenever they start from this, this powerful connection to their passion and strengths and they start, you know, experimenting on the outside, something kind of magical synchronicities are starting to happen. This is so, so wonderful, you know, when, when we can experience that and, and getting kind of, okay, oh, this is working. Let's, let's do the next step. And, and of course, not always easy and, life will throw stones in your way and all that. It's just to. You know, to, to step up and, and, and go on further. And, and I think this is what you're doing, with this podcast, which is so fantastic and, and with all your work, and this is what I'm doing. And probably so many of the listeners, and if not. I would just, highly, highly recommend to finding that and, and, and experimenting with it. It's such a beautiful permission slip to know that you are no different from any of the people that you look up to. The only difference is that they have stepped towards the dream rather than away from it. And they've experimented a lot on the way, you know, we always see people as their finished products as far as we understand it, and they are still in deep formation. Absolutely. Okay, we're gonna leave it there, listeners. You will have all of the details to access Felix in the show notes. I will be undoubtedly bringing him to you in a couple of seasons time, and wherever you're listening, please just take this as such, congratulations, peace. For all of the work that you are doing, you might think that no one sees it, you might think that it doesn't make a difference, and I can promise you it absolutely does. I send you such deep love from this corner, I am sure that Felix does, all the way over in Switzerland, and we will connect with you soon.