Finding Your Way Home; The Secrets to True Alignment

West End Star Bessie Carter - How to Live at Your Full Scale

• Anthea Bell

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Gorgeous Listeners, welcome to this week’s episode of Finding Your Way Home,

We are back after a brief pause - a little breath, while we've been putting the final touches on an incredible Season 8 line-up.

And who better to kick off a season of profound, heart-led visionaries than beloved Actor, Producer and creative talent, Bessie Carter. Bessie joins us for her second interview on Finding Your Way Home, fresh from the announcement of her major West End Show, Mrs Warren's Profession. As we dive into what it truly means to be a "Lead Character" on and off-screen, Bessie shares her tender and powerful experience of allowing herself to grow to full scale and reach. Dissolving, in a sense, everything that was stood in the way...

During this intimate conversation in-studio, we explore Bessie's journey from timidity to self-embrace: 

  • How to liberate your authentic voice and potential
  • The courage to question and move beyond normative boxes of 'politeness' and social expectation
  • Embodiment and acting - how looking and feeling inward has impacted Bessie's professional practice, and her capacity to inhabit a character fully
  • The power of ritual in reconnecting us to the present & what matters most
  • The criticality of moving deeper than surface-level conversation - how to truly be and feel seen in our relationships

It's a beautiful exploration of the power of body~mind work in the creative space; testament to how one's self-commitment ultimately reshapes the life we live - and the legacy we leave.

To find out more about Bessie and her work:

Find her on Instagram: @missbessb
To see Bessie in 'Mrs. Warren's Profession': https://mrswarrensprofession.com/

Stay connected with the podcast:

Thank you for listening; it means the world to us. We'd be so grateful if you could rate, review or share this gorgeous episode with someone you love. That small act brings us to new ears and eyes - it builds the movement of health and connection that FYWH is built on. 

For more information and upcoming news on the podcast, follow us on  @ab_embodiment and our website. 

And to explore working together more deeply:

  • Apply for an exclusive space on the Embodiment Coaching Certification 2025 - taking your client work to a profound level of depth & impact
  • Secure your space at our beautiful retreat in Costa Rica this Autumn. 6 days of sacred ceremony, moving you into the body, into the heart and through the emotional / historic blocks that have held you back. Prepare for a depth of connection you have never felt, in one of the most magical landscapes in the world. Be with us...

Sending love, wherever this finds you,

Ax

Bessie:

I've had a few friends recently ask me questions about, um, a decision or, you know, asking my advice on something. And I found myself more and more going. Look, this is my opinion from my lived experience, but you need to light a candle, sit down or wherever you are. If you live in a flat and all you've got is a window, open a window, breathe in a bit of the air, sit for five minutes and tune in and ask yourself, what do I want to do here? Mm-hmm. And you will hear the answer.

Anthea:

welcome to Finding Your Way Home, the secrets to true alignment. I'm your host, Anthea Bell, movement teacher, mind body coach, and lifelong spiritual seeker. This is a podcast about the depth, weight, and profound healing power of connection between mind and body, spirit and soul, and from one human to another. Together with an incredible range of inspiring guests, we'll explore just what connection and alignment mean. How to get there in a world full of the temptation to conform, and how great challenge ultimately can lead to life changing transformation. Get ready for groundbreaking personal stories, conversational deep dives, and a toolkit of strategies to build not just your inner knowing, but your outer world. Let's dive in. Gorgeous, gorgeous listeners. Welcome to this week's episode of Finding Your Way Home. This is an extraordinarily exciting moment because I am sitting with someone who has become unbelievably dear to me and is I know already, very dear to all of you, Bessie Carter, actress extraordinaire, producer, and creative being welcome. It's so, so, so wonderful to have you. Thanks for having me back. Oh no, it's wonderful. Take two. Take two. And we kind of went right in with take one. We, uh, we moved a lot into your personal story. We talked a fair amount about this kind of evolving mind body relationship that you've been exploring really in the course of the past year. And it's funny'cause when you came in this evening, um, we reflected together on the first moment that we spoke, which is really only about a year ago.

Bessie:

Mm-hmm.

Anthea:

And in that time, your internal experience and your external career have. They, they've really shifted. There's been a huge, huge growth spurt. And I'm curious, as you reflect on that, if you were to offer the audience, the listeners a little hallmark, what are the key changes that you feel like have happened in your life and in your career in the past year? Give them a sense of where we were and where we are now. Where we starting from today?

Bessie:

A true. Sense of my worth, which influences my internal relationship to myself. Mm-hmm. So my awareness has developed to a point now where I can really feel what my system is deeming good for me externally and what is not good. So I think my decisions in the last year have been a lot more from a place of. Love for myself and my future self.

Anthea:

Mm.

Bessie:

Um, and I think that's sort of where all of it actually stems from, is like real love, patience, and kindness to my self because then that has a knock on effect and has had a knock on effect of me, sort of owning my my right to be here.

Anthea:

Hmm.

Bessie:

And my right to be in that audition room, in that rehearsal space, in that film, whatever it is. And that has a knock on effect with my career, or I think has had in the last year.

Anthea:

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a sort of inevitability that you can't, uh, externalize something that you have not fully integrated internally.

Bessie:

I think that's what I, we all do. Is that we completely externalize or rely on the external things and that can probably last for a little while. Mm. And you can probably get away with it for your whole life. relatively happily maybe. And then you become aware that you are doing that and the awareness is quite tiring. Yeah, I will say, so there are moments in the last year where I've been like, Ugh, I wish I wasn't aware of this.'cause when you are aware of it, you can't. Not change it, which is empowering.

Anthea:

Well, you can not change it. People can stick with just the awareness. True. This is relative to your level of, uh, I would say courage and curiosity.

Bessie:

I'm quite, I'm quite, as you know, um, obsessed with, if I see something, I'm like, no, I think I can do that slightly better, but I am trying to learn to, for it not to be better, worse. Right. Wrong. Actually, that's quite important. That's something that right now I think I'm sort of. Trying to let go of, um, it needing to be right or wrong. What are the words that replace right, wrong for you?'cause Right Wrong is a fantastic human binary. Mm-hmm. It's useful, uh, to create structure, but it's not actually useful from a developmental perspective. It's not true. It's, there's nothing actually factually true about Right, wrong. We just like to apply it'cause it helps us to feel contained safe. Yeah. Yeah. And there is no right, wrong in your personal. Development because it will take as long or as to, you know, whatever. And there's definitely no right or wrong in my line of work. Which I'm learning. So I think the two are kind of combined. It's like, how can I, maybe the substitute words would be the kindest, offering versus the. Cruelest or the kind of, I don't know. it almost goes back to that question for me of where is it coming from? Fear versus faith?

Anthea:

Yeah.

Bessie:

That, yes. Yeah.

Anthea:

I'm curious when you, even when we first connected, or maybe if you think back to the beginning of, uh, 2024. Yeah.'cause we were recording this right at the beginning of 2025, which is this very different, quite propulsive, carnage oriented, uh, environment that a lot of people are experiencing right now. Yes. Potency and potential and bigness. and you and I have spent a lot of time in our work together kind of exploring exactly what you touched on at the beginning of this recording, which is around can I really validate my size and the idea almost that my size deserves to be. Visible in its fullness, that there are stages, there are screens, there are social environments, there are family dynamics, there are lovers with whom my bigness gets to be fucking celebrated rather than, oh, just, oh, I'll just shave off a little, I'll be a little bit more polite. And, and, and we've gone through quite a lot of that work together, which has been beautiful because it's also been a brilliant reminder for me of exactly the same theme. but I'm, I'm curious then if we reflect back. Or was that something that you consciously knew you needed to work on? Hmm.

Bessie:

I don't think I had the language for that. Mm-hmm. I think I could feel it was related to what I talked about the first time we spoke on the podcast about, um, my relationship to alcohol, for example. It was, I was becoming more and more aware, I think, of, um, substances, people, situations, patterns in my life that were. Curtailing my potential and my size. But also when you were just speaking then I was thinking it's not as if we're sort of wanting to break free and become this, these like 10 foot tall dragon women. It's, it's literally the bare minimum that I think we are actually trying to work towards, which is really heartbreaking. It is actually just what a lot of men just have is just being heard, respected, and allowed to be whoever they want to be in whatever dynamic they want to be in. Yeah. So I feel like what I'm striving towards is bare, this is the basics really, but the magic that it, um, conjures up inside. Is like this dragon goddess like energy that I'm loving finding and there's nothing I love more than, you know, having women like yourself or like some of my best pals, Miriam, Jody around. And we start to talk about all this sort of stuff and you feel a palpable energy change in your body. The tingles and the kind of, you feel like you could skip down the street and you suddenly feel like I am gonna sign up to the acting class and I do feel like I can. Do you feel. Invincible, which I think is such an infectious, positive, inspiring energy to be around. And I don't think I realized when we were gonna start working together, doing embodiment last January. I think it, it was, I didn't realize that that would help unleash this forceful. Jovie, I don't think because I came to you when I was in quite acute pain because I had, um, been a vegan, I mean the sort of dietary thing because I'd been a leave it there. Yeah. Because I'd been a vegan, I'd been a vegan for four years and then suddenly started eating meat because I was anemic and my gut did not like it, and my stomach did not like it. At the same time as having like personal life not being in the right situations and my body really did hold the score and. Starting to do that embodiment work with you of like really truly dropping everything and tuning into the heart, stopping and what is here and the amount of tears, the amount of realizing where I hold, realizing how much I think you actually said it in our first session. I kept talking about this. I kept talking about, oh, I'm holding so much. I'm holding this up. I'm holding that up. I'm holding that. And you just saying, well, just imagine if you didn't. Mm-hmm. And it is terrifying. The first thought of letting go. I still have no idea in certain moments how to do it or if I'm doing it or when to do it, but I feel like that was the beginning of me realizing we weren't just gonna be doing physical, you know, you also are Pilates teacher. Mm-hmm. Um, we weren't just gonna be doing restorative Pilates to connect me back to my body, but we were gonna be. Connecting me back to my core essence without all of the jobs I developed for myself to cater to everyone else around me but myself.

Anthea:

It's so fucking profound. I can't, I, I almost can't put into words a, the difference that I've experienced in you, but B, how significant what you're describing is as a process for a human being. And what I love about particularly people in your industry is that in a sense, because the level of exposure is so significant mm-hmm. You can't shy away from coming up against that kind of exposing content. That makes you look inwards.

Bessie:

Mm-hmm. So it makes sense like to go on to the stages that you are increasingly going on to be, um, in that creative process, it brings up so much that it forces a level of recognition and it forces pattern change for some. Mm. I think there are a lot of, uh, creatives and actors who are on stage, on screen who actually use that as a way of feeling, of accessing, of emoting, of connecting to those things that are hard to connect to in normal life. And maybe that's the space in which they release all of that, and then maybe they don't feel the need to do it. I, I, I've met a lot of actors who. You know, I, I think it's maybe a, a stereotype that. Um, the world has, which is like all actors are in touch with their own feelings. I have met a fuck ton of actors who are not in touch with anything. So it's, so, you know, I think that there are actors who, because we have conversations when we're working on something, we have to, we love delving into the psychology and the, the, the, but why would, why would they feel that? Why would they say that? That it absolutely is a head start for you to want to then turn that camera back around onto yourself and go, why do I do that when that person says, why do I react like that? But I don't think it's necessarily true of all actors, but I think maybe more actors. Are exposed to those types of conversations more that it might intrigue them more to do their, the work on themselves.

Anthea:

Hmm. It goes right back to that thing of inside versus outside or kind of, um, superficial versus is this a really integrated, substantial. Trait. You were, you were talking this week about going on this little wrecky to Cambridge. Yeah. Um, because you are, you are in this beautiful, upcoming, um, play. Yes. Do you wanna tell us a little bit for those that dunno about you? Yeah. its been announced. Um, I'll be doing a play by George Bernard Shaw, which is called Mrs. Warren's Profession. Um, and it's directed by the wonderful Dominic Cook, who has worked a lot with my mother, who is an actress. Oh, i's just haven't, I haven't heard of her. Unknown. She used to be a police woman. Um, that's actually a quote from something that I really enjoyed. But no, she's, um. Uh, she's Amelda Daton. Um, we are trying to work out and, and she's doing the play as well. Um, she's a side part. Oh, yes. No, but we are playing mother and daughter. Um, but it's, it is actually, we were having conversations of going, how do in the rehears room do we say, mom, do we say amelda? You know, so working that out. But, um, but yeah, so we start rehearsing at the end of March and we open in, uh, may. Um, and yes, my character wa was a, a Cambridge student and I had been to Cambridge, actually I remembered once before when I was doing prep for a job called Howard's End. And I went with these amazing actors who were playing my brothers and, um, my, the actress playing my sister-in-law. And we went and, um, got really pissed. And went punting in the middle of the afternoon and to the point where there were other tour guides like doing official punting tour guides. And they were going. And I remember one of them saying, and you can see the Cambridge students in their natural habitat pointing at us with our bottles of champagne we like. Um, this was a slightly different trip this week. I, I imagine slightly different tone. Different tone,

Bessie:

yeah. No, it was really nice. I mean, just, just went away for a night by myself. You can stay in the college. Uh. And I like doing those sorts of things of immersing yourself in. Hmm. The smells, the texture, the architecture, the Yeah. Imagination land

Anthea:

of, because you wanna be inside the character, right? Like you wanna feel for who is this human being that I'm bringing to life?

Bessie:

Yeah. I think it's a, it's a sort of, I dunno whether I, I dunno how. It's actually just being, I feel like more and more and realizing when I, when I auditioned for drama school, I remember saying to them when they'd ask the questions in the, in the interviews, they'd say, so why do you want to be an actor? And I remember the classic was, well,'cause I want to be other people. Uh, I want to be other characters and I want to see what their lives are like and what their, you know, their forms are. Yeah, and the more I act, the more I'm like, it's nothing to do with that. Mm-hmm. It is, how would I be that person in that situation? How am I that person? Which is, it's like you put them on, it's like you, yeah. It's like you put them on and so you slowly layer up the. Experiences that they would've had. That's why I find it useful to do things like drop into Cambridge or playing Nancy Mitford last year, like reading all of her books, going and visiting where she lived, you know, those sorts of things because you can have that sensory recall and that, um, that history in their mind. But then you throw all of that away. You let all of the other departments do their jobs, which conjures up the year that you are in, where you are, the house, you're in it. They do all of that. Mm-hmm. And your job is to actually let all of that go and put voice to the words that were written down, which are their thoughts, not necessarily always the true thoughts, the truer thought might be underneath the words, but to really marry complete truth and presence. In that moment. So yes, it's great going to Cambridge and looking at the buildings and reading the plaque about that woman. And then you let all of that go and you just trust that it exists. Mm. And even speaking now I'm thinking how little I understood how connected our work would be that we do in embodiment coaching, trust, let go presence, being in the moment, let you know, letting go. It's so deeply connected. It's really, really. Uh, it's beautiful to hear it and the picture that was coming up in my mind, you're walking on stage. Like, let's say it's for the play that you're gonna do with your mom. If you were to sense into what's going on in your body and in your mind relative to everything you've just shared, take us through your experience. You step out, the audience is there waiting with a pregnant level of anticipation. Well, there's always the moment before you step out. So it always begins before, which is excitement. Like always nervous. It is. You always say that really thin line between fear and excitement. Yeah, there's that. It's always sort of in between there. Every night without fail. That sort of butterfly, uncontrollable butterfly, gotta probably keep walking around to like try and calm it down. But that turns into a forceful energy, which permits you to take that first sort of step out. But then there's something that happens, I dunno, and it changes every show, but the last show that I was doing, which is the last one, last experience I can call upon. Um. It's like a deep sense of calm the moment you get on because you've worked on it. Mm-hmm. So you've done seven weeks with this group of people. That's why I love doing a play, because you're all creating this story together and you're all there all, all the time. And it's the story. Mm-hmm. So actually I, without wanting to sound sort of cliched, I sort of fall away. And you just do the work. You tell the story and there's something that happens, which is you just become in tune with what the story and the scene is. Yeah. You're feeling for it. Yeah. You are feeling for it and you are you sort of your thoughts on how the thing is go away. That's why I enjoy it, because I'm not sitting there going, I wonder if they, if I look good with this angle, or should I do that? You know? Oh, I wonder if they get that. All of that just shuts off. I mean, for me anyway, it just shuts off. Of course, there'll be moments where you might turn out and then you're like, ah, there's 900 people there, and you will have a moment of the reality. Which is that we can't avoid, which is for some reason 950 people have paid money to sit in a room and pretend to believe that what we're telling them is true. Like I find that hilarious and brilliant.

Anthea:

Why do you think that they do it?

Bessie:

Uh, to feel the things that they're not allowed to feel in the day to day through us is what I think.

Anthea:

So I was being really geeky and I was thinking about the body. You know, we've got kind of mirror neurons going on. They're getting this, what is it, a permission slip?

Bessie:

Yes. I think to feel things. Um, someone said this to me last night. I went to an acting class, a Meisner class last night, and someone, uh, the teacher said this last night, he said, people go to the theater because they can see people on stage behaving badly and getting away with it. Oof. And I was like, oh, that's great. Why a play happens. Why a film happens is because something outta the ordinary is happening that day. And for that day, that's why we're telling the story. Um, and so people want to go. I think we live in a world more and more where you are not allowed to be who you really want to be. You're not allowed to express how you want to express. You are so scared of if you take a stance on anything and you're passionate about something, that's some somewhere,'cause they will'cause the internet is massive, will hate you, cancel you somehow try to take your life down. Mm-hmm. So I think we go, I mean, that's why I go to the theater because I want to be told a story where I can go through all of these feelings, I can laugh, I can cry, I can feel, and it's in this contained space where you are absolutely allowed to do that.

Anthea:

Yeah, it's fascinating. I, so I work with a fair number of creatives, whether actors or writers or singers. And, um, I also work with quite a lot of coaches who interestingly had. Quite a lot of that experience before they went into coaching. So there's this really lovely overlap between them. And one client comes to mind particularly because she, uh, was a singer and she describes exactly that same process for her initially that you were describing for the actors that stop. Hmm. They don't go into the deep self development because they kind of, in some ways, they get what they need.

Bessie:

Yeah. And I sort of think in, in a similar way, that's what happens for the audience. It can, yeah. Be what happens to the audience. That this is the, this is the way that they feel. And in, let's say more of a sedentary example, we turn on Netflix, we deeply immerse ourself in the story of another. And that gives us exactly what you're describing. I think it also gives us. The feeling of connection without the substance of connection. Mm-hmm. So you kind of trance yourself into the belief that you're getting what you need. Yeah. And people live increasingly kind of safe, comfortable. Yeah. Lives, um, whereas I know every time I go to the theater more than if I watch something on screen, if I go to the theater, there's a commitment in me. I've left my house at nighttime, in winter into the big lights and. I'm preparing for the fact that the content may not be comfortable for me. Um, I was brought up watching, probably the same as you. I was brought up going to the theater. The first thing that I saw at, she was a Shakespeare player at the age of four. My mom was very proud. The Nutcracker for me, uh, when my parents thought I was gonna be a director, because the, someone came on and did a little dance, then the princess came on, or the Nutcracker came on and did a dance, and then the man went off, and then the Nutcracker went off, and then the man came back on, and then the, and at the age of four, I said, well, we've already seen that various, like director, director in the making

Anthea:

there, but, and also the ability to have an opinion. Yes. To voice it. Yeah. And then at some point I imagine you learn to not voice it.

Bessie:

Yes. Because we're all told not to at school. Don't speak unless I've said you can speak.

Anthea:

And you feel that's worse for women than for men?

Bessie:

No, not necessarily. I have men, male friends who've, who've gone to horrendous boarding schools and not even boarding schools. Just schools where you are not allowed to. It's the whole thing about we girls and boys at school where girls, I can't remember if I said this last time. Girls are in the corner of the playground. Whispering. Talking, observing, learning how to, um, read social situations and manipulate them to come out on top. Boys kick a ball at someone's face. Yes. Or there's a problem done. and I think this is changing. I'm so out of touch with like what schools are doing at the moment. I think it's all looking great. Like I definitely think schools need a complete reform, but I do think there is a lot more space for you not to be defined by those gender normative roles. But we were learning at that point through communication words and you know, uh, it's like subterfuge.

Anthea:

I never know what that means. Oh, it's a kind of spy term. It means it, it's, it's sneaky, right? Yeah. It's, you mentioned earlier on when you were talking about this acting class, and also you used it during this recording, this idea of, is it, is it loving, but also is it, is it truthful? Mm-hmm. You and I have talked quite a lot about speaking truth. Truth speaking. Yeah. Like what does that mean? It's radical when you really. When you really begin to hear the difference between, okay, my mind's creating a story.

Bessie:

Yeah.

Anthea:

Uh, or it's a convenience way of describing something versus what are the actual words that I feel that are present right now to describe this situation? And that's kind of missing in what you're describing in this female context at school where,

Bessie:

yeah, honest, simple words say what you mean, mean what you say. Which I, I feel like, yeah, I then, from that younger age, then went through a very long time of not feeling safe to say what I mean mean what I say.

Anthea:

And

Bessie:

so I actually feel like that has been the sort of verbal development for the last year. Is really being like, what do I want to say here? What am I just saying to appease? What am I saying? To entertain? And sometimes there are situations where, yeah, you're gonna go and you're gonna be like, I wear this hat tonight because I also enjoy that hat. I enjoy that. You know, my birthday. I was like, and I like that. And maybe I'm, you know, and then there's other situations where I'll have a cup of tea with Miriam and we'll sit. And we'll be very concise and very specific in what we're talking about. And so that's part of the dance, I think, of developing how you want to be, who you want to be.

Anthea:

Mm-hmm.

Bessie:

Um, but connecting it back to acting, realizing that actually the words that have have been written for you. Have been, every word has been chosen specifically. That's why you have to do good writing.'cause bad writing is bad. Um, but every single word has been chosen. So what? How can you bring what the author's author wanted to say and blah, blah, blah, and develop it into it, how you say it and your brain says it.

Anthea:

It's an amalgam. And that's why, as you say, it's very unique to each and every individual actor and each and every individual performance.

Bessie:

I remember I had an ex-boyfriend who's a piece of crap and I remember he shamed me for loving my job. And he went, oh, you always talk, like, you always talk about it. And you are so excited by it. It's so lame. And I remember finding that really embarrassing. I remember being really embarrassed. I'm really internalizing that as, okay. Okay. It's not cool to love what you do and to be energized by it. I fucking love talking about our job.'cause I think it's so weird. Yeah. And so interesting, and I don't talk about it all the time. I talk about it in the situations where it's like people might be interested to learn a little bit more about the psyche, about the, mm-hmm. But yeah, when you ask me about acting, I could go on for, I find it so stimulating and energizing and all nerves. Everything falls away. it's so true what you say about there is a lot of skill obviously required with going on stage. Mm-hmm. Or being in a scene that's being filmed where you are totally aware of the fact that there are lights, cameras, and 50 crew. Mm-hmm. Yet, you are having to completely fade that out, but not so much that you then turn your head out of the shot like you have to be completely. It's like perfectly balanced on a tightrope where you are completely aware of the audience. The lights there. I know I have to go over there by that point because however, I also need to be deeply present in what this person is saying and it's not about me because right now I'm not thinking about me. I don't think you are thinking about you. You are listening and thinking about me. So it is that sort of thing, and I think that's why it's important outside of work to do the type of work that we are doing where. You do give me space to go. Bessie, what's here today for you? What do you feel like in the last week you haven't had a chance to say, to feel, to express it's a degree of self entitlement that is profound. Mm-hmm. It's staking in claim to the fact that your individual experience is a maximal benefit to the universal and. Uh, that is critical for a leader, for, uh, a main character, for, for someone that, that actually also has a platform. I mean, this is the work we're doing of, which is completely no secret, which is I want to continue to feel like whatever I say in whatever situation is valid and worthwhile. because people in their uniqueness and people beating their own drum completely true to their authentic self. And speaking truthfully is in of itself a lesson and, and a hopefully is something useful for other people who maybe don't have as much support, confidence, access to that kind of work can, you know, find. Help within, and it's what builds up the resiliency. Actually, like you mentioned earlier, you know, Pilates teacher and I have spent the last over a decade helping people to get really, really calm. Mm-hmm. Parasympathetic stimulation, all of that. But actually a really significant part of my job is to give people the resiliency to switch between states. Like it's all very well and good. We become an acetic. We go and live in the mountains and then fucking hell other human beings come into the field and we dunno how to deal with it. That's part of why a lot of people are walking around in this state of like wired, tired. They're overstimulated because they haven't ever learned. How do I navigate stress? Yeah. Um, and actually Sam, my wonderful photographer who, you know, um, he taught me a lot about this'cause he was talking about his experience as an ultra runner. And just that the grittiness are very consciously going towards the edges. Your edge zones and, and what it's like to choose that as an experience. Um, you know, when you first came onto the recording, one of the things that I was gonna ask you in, in honoring of this kind of truth speaking thing, is if you were to just describe who you are having done this, uh, real year of connecting with what is the, what is the truth of Bessie? Not, um, where does she come from? Not what roles has she played, all of that jazz, but like this, this creature, it's inner creature that's always evolving. I was curious as to what the words would be that you would use to describe yourself. Oh, witchy goddess. Oh, witchy Goddess. I actually journaled about this the other day where I shut my eyes and I was like, exactly what you said. I was like, if everything fell away, all the material stuff fell away. The flat, the job where I live, who my parents are, my friends, all of these identities that we wear. Mm. And what him up was this like wild, feminine dancing sexy goddess. Mm-hmm. That's what I want to be. Yeah. That's what I feel is in the core of most of us. And it's shamed or it's, um, you know, um, trimmed and shush That's why I love live music so much because that side comes out, that free spirit where everything falls away and you bump into someone and you laugh and you smile and you dance with them for the next five minutes, you know, everything falls away. It doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter where you've come from. You know what you believe. Mm-hmm. It's a. Primal, sort of, I don't know, um, animalistic place. Mm-hmm. And I feel like that is at the core, which I really want to tune more and more into. mm-hmm. What would allow you, do you think, to tune into it more? Being around other women. Mm. Um, who have that sort of natural tendency or the interest in becoming more like that. Mm, yes. Finding a tribe, right. Yeah. Which I'm finding more and more and more, which is really great. And that form comes in many different ways as well. You can meet sort about men who have that, who are really in touch with that, you know, wild side as well. Mm-hmm. It isn't just this kind of, you know, I think I've conjured up like an image of these sort very like long-haired women around a fire, which sure, that might come into play, but. I think it's people who are interested in the basics, human connection and dance and movement,

Anthea:

which takes us into something that I did wanna talk to you about today and kind of get your steer on. You have this magical life, right? part of your curiosity, I suppose, is in ritual and in, practicing ceremony in some ways. And I wonder if you think that that's a kind of critical thing for people to have in their lives you know, it's kind of a lost art. Some of this stuff, I think it's been developed and I think people sometimes don't realize they're doing it. Hmm. And we might have just forfeited what it used to be with things like. Checking Instagram before we go to bed. But that in some way is your ritual. Mm. You know what I mean? And so I feel like you can substitute in things that work for you, things that don't work for you. And I've just slowly been shifting. I think the things that I know I need to do in the day, not necessarily I need to do, but I want to do that. I enjoy doing like I'm full moon witch girl. I love it. I love my rituals. Love it. I love it all because it's so. Outside of yours. It, it really just, it's nature. It's connecting back to Mother Earth, which is what we were, we were, we were animals on a, an amazing orb of plantation and jungle and water and elements. And we've now built concrete boxes and machinery and electrics, trampling all over. You know, and I, I find like it's the most natural thing for us to do to connect back to fire. Uh, like all the elements, air, water. I'm such a water baby as well. I mean, I'm water sign all over, but being near an ocean, near a, you know, I need to connect to those things. So I don't think it's. It actually to kind of, Ooh. But I think people do find it a bit, Ooh, because it's been made to look like all this woo woo thing. I hate the phrase woo woo. Mm-hmm.

Bessie:

I say it all the time, but I'm reclaiming the woo woo. But it's like people have had to put it over there and ostracize ostracize it because it didn't work for the capitalist society we live in. So, no, no. Let's make it weird. Let's make it woo, woo. Witchy women. And it's like, no, that's actually what we were all doing. I have

Anthea:

many opinions about this, partly because we do a whole other podcast on witches. We, we should, we, we shall, we shall team, we shall. Um, but I do have a lot of opinions about it. A because as you say, ritual becomes this beautiful, um, medium. It's, it's a medium for a kind of experience. Mm-hmm. It kinda doesn't really matter whether you're playing with tea leaves or whether you're playing with tarot cards or whether you are, um, grounding in the earth. You are, you are using it as a, as a source, a, a taproot to connect to something deeper that sits beneath cognitive consciousness. You know, I went for a two hour walk on the Heath this morning and I felt better in that experience, the essential quality of that experience. And there's manmade shit all over the place. Of course. There's people, it's not a completely. Uh, sanctified space, but I look at grass and trees and something different happens in my body. And physiologically, we know this to be true. It changes nervous system patterning, it changes, um, correlates in the brain. It changes neurochemistry, it changes hormonal pathways. It's, it's, it's phenomenal the amount of impacts that it has on us as living creatures, of course, because we are animals. I'm starting to speak faster, so I can tell that I have opinions. Um, but I think that the thing that you were describing, especially around the ostracization of these. Touch is not only just on the sort of capitalistic, patriarchal structures that we do live within. It would be naive to say that we don't. Boy, it also touches on the fact that there's become this hierarchy of the brain, such hierarchy of intelligence and knowledge and intellect, which takes us away further and further and further from. From exploring and knowing on a place that is much more intuitive, embodied. You know, when I use the word embodiment, I don't mean we're gonna get down on the mat, we're gonna do bridges. Great that you have good buns, but that's not really the intention. Like what we're aiming to do is get someone in here. We live out there all the time. We, we need to come and occupy here. Like the entire time that I had anorexia for that two decades of experience, I was way out there.

Bessie:

Yeah.

Anthea:

Which meant that I was so dissociated that I had no idea the harm that I was doing.

Bessie:

Yeah.

Anthea:

So for me, the, the, the ritual thing becomes this really beautiful way of how do I get back and experience myself on a visceral organ deep level.

Bessie:

I, I love everything you've just said and I, it's, it's really, um, stimulating hearing you say that because it really does make you go, God, yeah, you just wanna connect to your belly.'cause we are animals, like you say, we are animals. All this other stuff. My jewelry, my stuff is stuff to be like, this is who I am. Um, but it is just, it's getting back to the basics, which is I've had a few friends recently ask me questions about, um, a decision or, you know, asking my advice on something. And I found myself more and more going. Look, this is my opinion from my lived experience, but you need to light a candle, sit down or wherever you are. If you live in a flat and all you've got is a window, open a window, breathe in a bit of the air, sit for five minutes and tune in and ask yourself, what do I want to do here? Mm-hmm. And you will hear the answer. I love that you're validating. What do I want yeah to do here? Not what should I do? Yeah. What do I want to do? Yeah. Which is something we aren't, uh, encouraged yeah. To believe. But I also feel like what you were just talking about with connecting to your body and everything is also why I love doing what I love doing. Because it does demand I do that. Yeah. I mean, you know, whatever job I'm doing, I will be warming up, which means connecting to my breath, connecting to my voice, connecting to my body, connecting to my toes. You know, I will be physically stretching, connecting, empowering. Um, and so there's a reason why I think we all. You know, everyone says, oh, drama school, you will have sort of breakdowns. It's like, yeah,'cause we are, listen, we are breathing for the first time properly. And so overwhelming emotion comes up and out because we have been constricted to breathe. Don't breathe, hold it in. Be small, tiny, waist girl attractive and people aren't even aware of it. No, no. Most, most of the people that come to me thinking that they have a very weak pelvic floor actually have a chronically held pelvic floor. Yes. It's

Anthea:

like, no, no. You've just been holding in for three decades.

Bessie:

Yes. On the basis that you don't believe that you're lovable. That's still my thing. I mean, even the show I did at the national last year, I had to have extra help from the voice person to get my ribs moving.'cause I'm so used to holding my ribs in because of wanting that thin waist, which again, is so internalized and so subconscious. I don't even know I'm holding it. And then, I mean, we do that with some of the Pilates work, swinging and breathing in and letting the belly flop out. You also look so much more beautiful. You look like a Greek goddess because you are meant to have this beautiful shape. That is such a privilege to have a womb.

Anthea:

It's, it's really fascinating, isn't it?'cause I. Uh, we've talked about this a little bit. I'm, I date men and women, and so I have a, a sexual desire related to women. So when I think about a woman's body that I'm sexually attracted to, I'm like, oof. At the, look at this. Yeah. The softness. Look at the curves. And yet that same script was not internalized related to my own body. Totally. So it's really fascinating the way that then kind of your societal experience or your family experience, like I remember being told to hold in my belly when I was. Nine, and I was bullied for being fat for most of my childhood. So of course you set up this right, wrong. Mm-hmm. Going back to what we started with of like, well, no, this is meant to be right. And now when I do that, I'm like, look, feel the drum. Like let it reverberate.

Bessie:

Let there be some strength there. And of course, what you, what I think you'll agree with what, what you actually find beautiful in someone is someone being totally themselves, warts and all. That is what's beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah. That is what's beautiful. Not someone conforming to this outdated nineties, what were they, the horrible magazines where we women were torn apart. I mean, we're still torn apart on the internet more than men, but, um, torn apart from just being however they looked, and then the paparazzi snapped them

Anthea:

and it takes a rare person. I might remember my first girlfriend. It's the first person I'd ever let in. Remember her saying to me, I love you because of your flaws.

Bessie:

Yeah,

Anthea:

and I believed it, which is shocking, but also what

Bessie:

are flaws? Well, exactly, because that's interesting. What is a flaw? Well,'cause if there's a flaw, it means that there's a flaw. Against a perfect ideal.

Anthea:

And I think that that was the holder for vulnerability. I think that that was what we were both talking about actually. Mm-hmm. I had that thing that we've talked about before of like, I'm too much.

Bessie:

Yeah.

Anthea:

Fuck. I'm too much if I share my fear. Yeah. That you will leave me, or whatever it might be. Oh, okay. We are going down all sorts of beautiful little dives and I'm attentive to, uh, the listening ears of the audience and also kind of time. I am also just really aware of the hearts of the people that listen, you know, the messages that we get back from you guys that are with us, they're so tender, so, so tender. What is the, the principle or the message, the heart message that we need to leave the audience with to, uh, really have received something of nourishment from today's conversation?

Bessie:

Well, I think this podcast is amazing. Thanks. I think giving space to a really wide array of people from different walks of life and different experiences and, um, professions. Is one of the most interesting things that you could do is bridge that gap and have a conversation. I saw a play recently, which I adored at the Kiln Theater, called The Purists, and it didn't try to answer any questions. It only asked them, so I left the space feeling really inspired. To have a conversation rather than resentful of this playwright director or play for telling me what to think about something. So I feel like in any of these conversations, I'm very wary not to try to tell anyone what they should do. Think, believe it's having the. Bravery.'cause this is quite scary. Having the bravery to talk honestly from your heart about your own experiences, regardless of trying to tie it up in a neat bow and say, and so that's how I did it because it's continual, it will never end, which sometimes, like what life is one really long lesson. Um, and so I feel like it's just having this. Connection between us is hopefully encouraging to connect to others and to have conversations that go to this slightly deep level, deeper level. Mm-hmm. Rather than, Hey, how are you? Yeah, I'm good. How are you? Yeah. Did you see that thing? Yeah, that's my fr solo voice. Yeah. It's so cool. Okay, great. What a note to land on. Thank you so much listeners, take care of yourself in your various corners, and we will connect with you again soon.

Anthea:

Gorgeous listeners. I hope. You enjoy today's. today's. episode. To find. More about our. Featured guests. Have a look in the show. Notes.