The Real Deal Podcast
Unlock the door to success in the dynamic world of real estate with your hosts, William Gomez & Alfredo Madrid. Join us as we dive into the inspiring journeys of loan officers and real estate agents, sharing their triumphs, challenges, and invaluable insights. Your key to navigating the ever-evolving landscape of real estate starts here.
The Real Deal Podcast
#13 Streamlining Success by Networking and Growing Relationships with Phillip Allen Morrow
In this episode, Philip, a leading figure in Tulsa's lending industry, teaches us about maintaining an ideal client base, the discipline it requires to part ways with clients who don't align with your business goals, and the camaraderie that exists within the lending community. He opens up about the profound impact his father had on his career. Lessons learned from his father's work ethic in the car business shaped Philip's professional beliefs and approach to balancing work and family life. We delve into the powerful influence of informal mentorship and legacy, providing valuable insights on how personal relationships can shape professional success.
When you break up with somebody, the result's the same One's happy, one's sad, or both are sad, whatever right. But if you're the breaker-upper, it's on your terms. And I believe that if I have that ideal client and this client does not fit my ideal client or doesn't meet what I'm trying to accomplish by saying yes, now I'm not getting those opportunities. So if I can convince myself and this is where it takes discipline, in my opinion is you have to be okay to let it go in some of the cases.
Speaker 2:Philip Allen Morrow. Welcome to the Real Deal Podcast. How are you doing, man, man, great, thanks so much for the invite on this.
Speaker 2:Of course, man, I'm super excited to have you, and this brings some flashbacks, because whenever I and people have heard this story, I've shared it before that. Whenever I got in the business within the first quarter, I got the top 100 lenders in the Tulsa area and I remember seeing your name, alfredo's name, along with you know. I looked at the top 10 people and I said, man, I'm going to reach out to every single one and try to take them out to, and both of you guys were working at different companies and then so I remember meeting with both of you guys and we went to like a place that's closed down and you were so gracious to just share your story with me and give me some tips and everything. So it's it's glad I'm so happy to bring it back around, man. So welcome man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Thank you so much for you know something to add to that. Um, Something to add to that I'm as competitive as the next guy. When you have other people in your own industry, you're always watching out. There's that little edge of like, hey, I'm head-to-head with this guy, but you've always been a guy that I've enjoyed being in the same industry with. You have a great name, You're a reputable guy in town. People have nothing but great things to say about you. I just want to go out of my way to say that, like, hey, I've always enjoyed being a part of the same market in the same industry with you.
Speaker 1:Man, I respect that. Thank you so much, and same goes back to you guys. It's two-way street for sure, awesome.
Speaker 2:And for anybody that hasn't heard Phillip's name before, he's a top producing loan officer here in the Tulsa area. He's been doing it for how long now, oh man? Oh man, like 15 years, 15 years, and it's probably a little longer than that because it runs in the family. Your dad has been a long time top producing agent. But for somebody that hasn't heard your name, give us a little more background on your life. Yeah, man, so born and raised in Tolson.
Speaker 1:So I tell people I've lived on Yale my whole life. I did go to college at Arkansas, but after graduation came right back home and got right into lending. So I've only had one job in my life and that's Just doing this, that's it.
Speaker 3:That's it, and we'll get right into it. You started doing this because your dad does it. Is that right? He got you into it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So dad got into it. He was actually a real estate agent prior for John Halsem back in the day and then switched over to lending, probably in mid nineties, and then from there just off to the races. So I always tell people I've been in the business, I've been a W2 employee for 15 years, but I've got about almost 40 years experience.
Speaker 3:So you used to hear him on the phone calls. You were picking up on all that stuff that he was doing. Is it something that you always watched him and you're like I want to do that? Or was it just something you fell into because you just something, you hit the ground running?
Speaker 1:with Good question. So so my dad and I are best friends, love that. You know. For the last 39 years of my life we've been best friends, so I've always admired him and watching him. You know, back in the old days we wore suit and ties every day. You know he had a pager. I mean man, this guy must be a big deal right Like a car business. Timing made a big factor. So you know, I've had some great success in the industry, but it was all time you know people look back and go hey, what'd you do?
Speaker 1:It's like man, I don't know. I woke up, went to work and then just I'd love to tell someone that I had this great idea and I've executed it to perfection. But that is just not the case. I got lucky, stumbled, fell into it, moved over, fell into it again, got up, got messed up, lost, won again. So it's always been this combination of just life. But I've always just tried to be a steward of the game, kind of a slow play of let's do right by the consumer, then we'll get their friends, and then their friends and their friends and their friends. So that's kind of how we built our business, but it was all started from my dad.
Speaker 3:So, man, we probably need to have senior on, because you know I could probably pick your brain on that relationship and that dynamic, because you know, obviously my kids are going to be watching me and I assume that your dad dealt with a lot of the things that I deal with. As far as taking my job home with me, you know letting my job affect, you know how I am with them, how much of me is left when I get home. Did your dad do a good job of separating those two things?
Speaker 1:Yeah, he did. He did a phenomenal job. In fact he did too good of a job. And so a funny little story is graduate. You know, life's going on. I'm getting a job and my stepmom sets me down. She's like hey, I don't think you understand the complexity of this job. I go oh, sure I do. Dad's always happy. You know, blah, blah, blah. No, he's not, that's not true. And he's like she's like he has given you this false. She goes. I hope I he's not giving you false ideas that this is just a an easy gig. Stressful nights we've all had them. You know everything can go wrong, does just just as life goes. But he had always separated it so well from you know, hard work or the the stress that comes along with the industry and not bringing it home, that there was kind of a little bit of a disconnect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, where I was like oh man, this job's like.
Speaker 1:I remember one time I was like crying. I was like so sad I blew a deal or made a mistake and just got ripped and I remember I called my dad, being like dad, I'm like I don't know this for me Like I'm crying. I think I'm probably 25. Just crying, he's like dude, you gotta quit crying.
Speaker 3:No, I love that. I mean I can say honestly here that my family doesn't get the best of me a lot of the time. You know what I mean. I I don't able to separate that. So I love that there's an example set by him for you that he was able to, so much so that you're like man, my dad's a happy all the time. He must love what he does, right. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:No, I mean it was really cool, like, and you know there were obviously times that you know but it is. You know that he was upset or frustrated, but you know it's so easy to like kind of always, and especially in our business, I think we only remember the really bad ones Right, and out of the really bad ones, that's such a especially with your guys' success. That's such a small number and so, like one thing my dad has always really kind of coached me on I hate to use and use that word, but you know teach me was use that word.
Speaker 1:But you know, teach me was hey man, let's remember the good ones. So we have dinner together. We try not to talk work, but it inevitably goes to work. We always try to talk about what. Hey, what file did you close this last month? That was awesome, you know, but the person was just really cool. So you guys talk shop, oh man, all the time it irritates both spouses. So why do you hate that word coaching? I don't know, it just seems like a pretty buzzword at the moment and I think a lot of the stuff I've done is probably somewhere I picked up from some kind of coaching or mentorship or something.
Speaker 2:I just didn't know there was a name for it and so- I think all coaching is really is like accountability for all the basic things that are supposed to be done right, we all know that we're supposed to make calls, we all know that we're supposed to do thank you cards, all the basic stuff but it's like hey, did you do it Right? And the reason I'm I asked that is because that's one of the differences of whenever I met with you guys is that, alfredo, you were getting coached at the time and I've met so many people in the industry that are just have massive success and it all goes back to like I'm getting coached, but it seems like you were getting coached before you were ever in the business.
Speaker 1:Before I really knew I was being coached, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, for me I was. I was groomed to be a banker.
Speaker 2:So what are some of the things that your, your dad, did when you actually got in the business? We?
Speaker 3:promise, this is about you today, right?
Speaker 1:No, no man, you guys are talking me up, I feel great.
Speaker 3:No, no, it's not going to be about seeing you the whole time, we're just trying to get-. No, no, man, this is great.
Speaker 2:No, I mean this goes back to the start of his career. No, I get it Just because anybody that started in the business. Your first day you walked into your office, you're given your laptop and you're like good luck, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so cool story. So when I joined BOK, the first two weeks I didn't touch a computer, I didn't touch a pen, I didn't touch a pad, I didn't talk to a consumer. I sat there at my dad's desk and just watched, just shadowed, just obviously evolved as time and technology has as well. But I remember I sat there the very first meeting I ever did. A couple comes in, they sit down at the desk, dad goes hey guys, you know, blah blah, blah doing his business script, if you will, doing his, doing his thing. And they go hey, we needed to tell you something. But I go, okay, go, okay, go for it.
Speaker 1:She goes on my, on my loan application. I am a female but I am in fact a male. And she goes, you know, and she was like really concerned, right, so she was transitioning into a guy. And this is back before, like Long time ago, man, yeah, 15 years ago, I mean. And so I'm sitting there and like I don't, you know, I was like okay, and my dad looked at me and goes are you here to borrow, to borrow some money? She goes, yes, and he goes well, I'm your guy, I want to lend you money. And I watched it was the most impressive thing watching. You could tell they were so nervous for that meeting. They probably had angst weeks leading up to this meeting and in the five seconds he took that away and that was incredible.
Speaker 3:Your dad has a way of making people feel very comfortable because again back to that whole competitive thing it's another lender for another company. Anytime I've ever ran into him everywhere he's almost made me feel like he's happy to, like he knows who I am. And that was always crazy to me because I'm like, how does this guy even know me? But every time we meet with him he makes it feel like he's the one that's happy to meet me, when it was obviously me. But I'm just saying like he just has a really good way of doing that.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that's passed along to you, yeah, and that's just the stuff. I think watching him do is like you know from then on, like you know not that I was a kid, I didn't care either way, but I was like from then on, you didn't even open a computer, you just sat there and watched, and that takes humility.
Speaker 2:And that we see so many people that get into the business, that want to like. The first thing is like, whether you get into the business and you're wanting to be a real estate agent or a loan officer, a lot of people come into the business thinking I'm going to make a lot of money and I'm going to have a lot of free time, and we know that that's the furthest thing from the truth. Sure, you can make a lot of money, but you have to work so hard at it. And but so many people, I believe, come into this industry with that entitlement mindset of like, why would I sit here and watch this person whenever, like I could be out there? You know killing it right now. So what are some things that you would tell? You know some newer loan officers, or not even newer loan officers, like every company has those loan officers that have been doing it for for a few, a couple of years, like three to five years, two to five years and they still like, can't get over that hump.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know. For me I always say you know, when I was young, you know again, I used to wear a suit and tie. Why? Because I wanted people to think I was a little older. You know, same here. Do you remember when we went to lunch? Exactly, right, I think showing up is the biggest deal. I think when people are in the office there's a higher level of productivity. I think the bell curve for learning is a lot shorter, right, like, I think you can retain more in person. Now, I'm an old guy so it's probably easy for me to say, but I think I just believe people, the camaraderie, the office presence, there's just a lot to be gained with that.
Speaker 1:The other thing I would do would be never stop learning. God, you know, like I got pretty spoiled at BOK, I'll be honest, and BOK is a phenomenal institution. But I got such a big head at BOK I had to have a big mindset change, kind of like hey, I'm nobody and that's all right too, but like I didn't have to do most of the stuff a person should do just because we were just writing so much money, and so I lost focus. I probably lost a lot of opportunity with other clients. And that's always bothered me is, you know, not having the education or being a steward to the game to practice right. I always kind of use pro sports, like man, those guys practice to practice right. I always kind of use pro sports like man those guys practice. When you I never played football, but when I watch Tom Brady or one of those quarterbacks go to the line and look everything over and make audibles and changes, right then and there that's so impressive to me. Yeah, but it's practice. Yeah, just right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love what you have to say there. It took me a long time in my career to realize that it's not about what I'm accomplishing. The question is what am I leaving on the table? Right now? It's like you're saying you were doing a lot of business, but if you look back at that season of your life, what did you leave on the table during that time of surplus?
Speaker 3:How much more could you have gained, earned, leveraged, so many things because we get content, because we're measuring our success by what we're accomplishing, not by what our true capacity is right, and it takes a while to learn that. It takes a while to get that. I see so many people come into the industry and it's so hard to get them out of their preconceived ideas of what it takes to be successful, like I'll be sitting here looking at somebody and just even that simple comment about just show up, telling somebody that it will benefit their career tremendously if they just show up every morning at eight, not 8.30, not nine, not 9.10, just show up on time, ready, suit and tie, professional, looking, every single day. And I promise to make a difference and you can just see that they're like what does that matter?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm a big proponent of being consistently consistent. Whenever we have a producer that has a really big month man, I'm going to be the first person to tell him congratulations, and then I'm going to challenge him to do it again next month or when that valley hits next month. Instead of you say you'd rocked out a $3 million a month, the next month I need you at a million five. All right, let's, let's bridge that gap that difference Right?
Speaker 3:I don't like peaks and valleys. I don't think peaks and valleys is your numbers and month after month after month, you're right there. One of the things that you told me is that a big portion of your business comes from your I want to say database, but that's not giving it its credit. It's like your circle of influence, like your own personal friends, because you probably befriend a lot of people. Tell me a little bit about building that side of my business, because I feel that's a weak area for me, man, because I feel that's a weak area for me.
Speaker 1:Man, great question. And so, yeah, a large part of my business is maybe COI, but yeah, I think it's a good word for it or just word of mouth. I get more business from consumer direct relationships than I do agent direct. Really, people look at my numbers. They're like, hey, man, we want to hire you over here. What can you bring him Like notepad, maybe some pens, like you know, rolodex, I guess, buddies, but no, I've always.
Speaker 1:So I've kind of been thinking here over the last it's probably been a six month kind of track, if you will, but I've really been thinking like, what is that ideal client? Cause I think that's a big miss in our industry. I think a lot of times people go we want every single deal known to man, we don't want to lose one deal and I don't know. I mean, I've always had that approach but I'm trying to change because I think that ideal client is more profitable. It's a better consumer experience, it's better for long-term referable business, right, and then it's also better from an ops business staff. So when I say profitable, I mean we're not having to cut because they didn't make a payment or they did this or that For my ideal client we run such a high rate of return on that client, I just need to get more of that client Right.
Speaker 1:So, like I've always sheared away from, my dad loves first time home buyers Always, has, always will For some reason. I remember I was in a meeting BOK this was a million years ago and they go, hey, they would go over volume and units. And one day I was like, hey, why are we going over units? She's like well, you got to. You know, if you get units, you get volume. I go well, what if I just get volume? Like, do you pay me on units? I'm like no, well then, why can run this track? So I need to run it faster or with a bigger horse. So that's just money. So now I need so maybe instead of targeting you know, setting my marketing dollars or doing this or that for first timers or this buyer, I need to go to that buyer. I want that 350 buyer, that three 400, $400,000 buyer something like that, and not that you're discriminating.
Speaker 3:You have just found a section of the market that you're the best at man 10% down.
Speaker 1:I love it. I always kind of go back to sports.
Speaker 3:Underwriting's easier. It's a smoother process. It gives you the ability to give better customer service.
Speaker 1:Yes, so then they're going to refer me more.
Speaker 3:That's right, they're going to go okay, hey, man, it was so yes to you're saying no to something else, Right? And at some point you got to quit the last job. You have to go get the new job, and that's how I look at business. Sometimes is like I got to stop saying no to this so I can start saying yes to this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, at that point when you realize that what year of your career was that and what are some changes that you made within the next 90 days to try to get that loan amount bigger within the next 90 days to try to get that loan amount bigger, be a good one.
Speaker 1:So you know, I put myself in positions to have the opportunity to get bigger loans. So first thing I did, I joined a country club which and I never thought, and I still don't to this day, that I'll ever cover its costs. But if I'm going to fish, I might as well fish in a pond I want to be in.
Speaker 2:Also, I'm glad that you're being, though Not if they use it Honestly, though I would say that Not as much as he gambles, I would say that I mean, if you look at the numbers, yours might pay for itself.
Speaker 1:It's probably getting close, but I'm a little too humble to think that I'm doing enough to cover my cost. What else did you do? Ideal client? And this client does not fit my ideal client or doesn't meet what I'm trying to accomplish by saying yes, now I'm not getting those opportunities. So if I can convince myself and this is this is where it takes discipline, in my opinion is you have to be okay to let it go in some of the deals.
Speaker 3:That's a great point. Let's go back to the country club. Like a lot of, like, you know, it seems like a lot of books and sales books. They always leave to me that it's like a cliffhanger join a country club and then in my mind I'm always like, well then, what? What am I doing at this country club? How am I getting business from this country club? What is your approach there? Are you actually, do you feel like you're even leaning to soliciting, or you're just striking relationships, taking interest in people, and then eventually they're taking interest in you and finding out what you're doing. Like, how, how does that function? Like, if somebody's hearing this and they're like, well, go join, go join a networking group or join country club if they can, what is the next steps there that you say, get you to the place where somebody's actually referring you?
Speaker 1:Man. That's great, and I think a country club is a networking group for me. That's the way I approach it is. This is a group of people that I want to be around, share similar ideas, and I want them. I want to be known as at Cedar Ridge and I believe I am. I'm the mortgage guy. If anyone buys a home and needs a mortgage at a Cedar Ridge Country Club, they're going to call Mauro and that's just that's what I've tried to gear towards.
Speaker 1:I play in various now I've been there forever Like I joined as a bachelor and I'm married with three kids, so I've been there I think 12, 13 years. At one point I think it was the youngest member. Now I'm on the board, so I've been there a long time. And yeah, it's not like hey, I need a deal tomorrow.
Speaker 2:It's just like hey, and then get instant results, and that's not that's not how it happens and I think that a thing that you do so good is kind of similar to your dad is you. You you're present with people, when, when you're with them and you grow that relationship deeper. I'll give an example and I'll I'll happily share the story.
Speaker 2:Our number one agent from last year we just had a deal, a guy named Colin and she's just like referring. She was like you got to go with Will, you got to go with Will and then sold the wife. But then the husband comes along and she's like no, like we're going to use, we're going to I have to use Philip. And it's like at that point it's like that your relationship with him goes way deeper than the relationship that I have with that agent. So that that goes to show for anybody listening that it's not just you're showing up to whatever new group that you're joining, but it's like I'm not doing this to get a deal, I'm doing this to create relationships. So whenever that deal comes later down the road, I don't even have to fight for it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:He was. He was less happy when he told me about that.
Speaker 1:Man, I was worried.
Speaker 2:I will say that there are certain, there are certain places that are certain deals that I get that like we're competing against Right, and a lot of times, like, let's say, if it's Quicken Loans or something like that, I just like I get so like passionate about them going with us because I know that they're going to have a bad experience. Passionate about them going with us because I know that they're going to have a bad experience, but it it does bring some peace of mind whenever we're going up against like people that we know that it's like okay, well, at least we know that like they're going to get taken care of the deal's real right, like yeah, same.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I always say my dad's a stew bummer. The down, the only downside of Tulsa is there's a lot of good lenders.
Speaker 3:Yeah, true, and there's a lot of good ones.
Speaker 1:And so when yeah, same thing. We're fighting on a deal and I see it's you guys I'm like well, their buyer's not going to lose. Yeah, you know it's like, okay, here's where we're at, and then if they get us, they get us, If not, we'll we'll paddle again.
Speaker 2:And one of the things I wanted to ask you, which I'm glad going on the table. I think that people, whether they started at a bank or as long as they've been in the business for the last three, four years, a lot of us experienced the massive amounts of deals that we had during COVID times. And then I think a lot of people had that feeling, including myself. I was just like I was kind of proud of myself for having such low refi business. I think I was at like I was kind of proud of myself for having such low refi business. I think I was at like 17% and then. But then I look back and I'm like man, what can I do to try to make sure that, like, if the refi business is there, I'm still getting purchases, but this is just free money coming in? So what were some of the changes that you made whenever you made that realization?
Speaker 1:And you know so so I've always been a one man my assistant and my processor.
Speaker 2:That's it. Never had, never had a team, never had any kind of um. Well, you don't need it whenever you're only doing two loans for $2 million. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, why keep my head over the low right so I to give any kind of insider guidance there? I think I would do a disservice to the, to the podcast, but you know. But some stuff that we would do is again, I just like to be consistent. Whenever I get a contract, I do the exact same thing every single time I do. I mean, it's a workflow, it's just like a pre-flight checklist and it is done every single time on every single file. And when I don't, I know it because I make a mistake and it reflects two weeks down the way Christina's calling going like hey, we've got a problem.
Speaker 1:And it's like I can, two weeks down the way Christina's calling going like, hey, we've got a problem and it's like I can go back and go yep, I didn't do my pre-flight checklist, or I didn't do this, or I was lazy in this regard here. Um, so I a lot of it's just being consistent, so I don't have to get brought back into the picture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so funny that he says that, because when everybody starts you create a checklist and so many people want to get away from that checklist, it's crazy how many people check off an item on a checklist that was never done.
Speaker 3:That's insane. I'm like you're literally the checklist isn't there. Like it's not. Like I got a page to draw on. It's like do it right.
Speaker 3:So a guy like you, I feel it's really easy to believe. Like you know, he has it easy right. It seems like it just comes natural to him, right. Like this is an easy business from him. His dad did it. It just comes natural. But I know there's a lot of things that you have to do day in and day out that are completely out of your comfort zone. What are some things that you like are like man, I really have to push myself to make sure these things do. Like you know your dad was always real great about like, visiting offices, visiting realtors. Like you talk about consistency and activity. Uh, if I showed up to drop off donuts somewhere, his donuts were still there because he beat me to it. You know what I mean. Like he just had so much consistency in those areas. You do a lot of the same things. What are some things that you could say, guys, this is does not come easy to me.
Speaker 1:So yeah, some things that, like you know a lot more around I would say management is not a natural like. I'm a sales guy I think a lot of people think of. You know I always kind of use the halo effect. I've had some success in lending and in sales, so everyone thinks I'm good at everything else around business. I've got this great business. No, I have no idea what business is. I can sell money, but I don't know anything about it.
Speaker 2:I don't have any of it. I can't be too good at it.
Speaker 1:So a lot of the managing peers and handling growth. So we kind of get stuck. Sometimes we go man and handling, you know, growth, right, like. So we're kind of get stuck. Sometimes we go man, how'd we grow from here? Like do I need to add someone to the team? What is it we're doing? I'll just work more. So I, you know I put in a lot of hours. You know one thing you know perception is reality until you're living it. Right Like it's not. Such the is when you're slow, right Like it's, it's remembering like to be, to be the steward of the industry, to do the right things like okay, pre-fight checklist, make 10 calls, go drop by this office, make sure you're hanging with the boys, make sure you're doing this at the club. You know checking these boxes, which are fun to do, like you know I mean I just got back from Vegas and I had three phenomenal dinners. You know, when I call my wife and say hey, we just finished, you know here she's like I hate you, I just got done.
Speaker 2:You're like I'm working, I'm on the clock right now.
Speaker 1:And that's what I tell her, like, hey, I'm working. These are, you know, the two guys on the trip I'm writing, writing loans for their kids on right now. So you know, but you're out there and you're doing that and, yes, it's fun, yes, it's a good time, but it's still work, like you can't deviate from that. It's still like I'm on.
Speaker 2:I may not agree with everything this guy says across the table but I'm going to let one of the things, too, that I remember whenever I met with you guys. You know, people always try to make excuses for success, right? So one of the two that come to mind for both of you guys is for Alfredo. The reason he was writing so much business is because he had a team, and I used to think like well, would you have that much business if you had a team? And then another that I would hear from you it's like well, he has success because his dad's a top producer. But it's like well, would you be a top producer if your dad was a top producer? But I almost think, in a way, that could have maybe been harder, because there was like, for example, I think, what made my job easy.
Speaker 2:I remember going through the office my first like week and I said how long do you think it's going to take me to do close a million, a million dollars in my first month, and the closest answer I got was like, like, the shortest timeframe I got was like 12 months, and everybody else was over that. They're like you're brand new, it's okay if you can't, you know, and I was just like, and I was able to do that within 90 days. But at that point I was like bar was so low. I set my goal to six months. I was able to do that, but it was different for you because it's like I feel like the bar was like dude, you should be riding a million bucks in the first 30 days. So talk to me about how it was to start in the business with, with your dad yeah.
Speaker 2:With expectations like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know so long ago there were expectations. I mean, my dad made sure, like no-transcript big crusader. No, I don't like to use the word justification. I don't want anyone to justify anything to me and I don't want to have to justify anything. If I say, hey, let's go to dinner, you go, I don't want to, I go. Perfect, that's cool. I would rather a person say that than go no man, because X, y, z, no man. Just say you don't want to go to dinner.
Speaker 1:It's fine, I'm a dude, it's cool, I'm good with it and, I think, with business. I think a lot of people try to justify why they've been successful or why they haven't been successful.
Speaker 2:That's so good.
Speaker 2:ROI on your time, because we all get paid commission but essentially even Jeff Bezos still gets paid by the hour. How much money is he making and how much time is he actually working? I remember being with an agent and she was like super excited because she just made this big commission check. And I said, how much do you think you got paid per hour on that deal? And she was like what do you mean? And I go, yeah, like all the showings, all the, everything that you did, like what do you think you got paid per hour? And after kind of doing some very, very rough math, it was like 120 bucks per hour.
Speaker 1:And she was like oh my gosh, and that's why you want that ideal client. Cause then you can really increase that ROI. That's right, that's right.
Speaker 3:So you have three kids. Three kids, what?
Speaker 1:ages. I've got five, or my son's eight. He's at Metro, a Spanish immersion, okay, and I've got a For him.
Speaker 2:That is awesome. Hopefully that's where I'm trying to convince Destiny for that Love it.
Speaker 1:Lincoln, bro. And then we've got Collins. She is five, I know she's six now.
Speaker 3:So the oldest is not a.
Speaker 1:Phillip, nope, nope Failed there. I thought I'd have a. That's the one thing I think dad did not love.
Speaker 3:So you got two. You're two oldest, or girls.
Speaker 1:No, it goes. Wyatt Collins and Blair. Okay, gotcha. So youngest two are girls. We're trying to decide if we're going to have a fourth, but I can't afford three girls. Come on, Mentally, financially, I can handle two, three.
Speaker 3:So here's my question Wyatt's your oldest Mm-hmm. Are you? Would you like for him to go into the mortgage business? I?
Speaker 1:mean it's such a good. I'd love anyone to get into the business. I think my middle Collins is going to be my lender. Her personality and my personality seem more similar, which I'm not saying I'm great, but I like the personality I have, the traits I have for this industry, and my daughter really reflects that. I think my son's going to be an engineer what do you? Think about our industry.
Speaker 1:I love it, I think where it's come from. Just my time in the business. I think it's phenomenal. I mean, when I got in the game, it was almost, almost a shunned industry. It was 2008, 2009, right after the mortgage crisis. Like I remember telling people in my, in my, my circle of influence being like you know, I got a job and I'm wondering if it'd be okay as a mortgage loan. I'm sort of like oh, they're like oh man dude, you're the problem, you know, I remember that.
Speaker 3:Like don't you have a degree, dude?
Speaker 1:I was like yeah yeah, what do you do? And now to see where it is today, where it's like I mean it's guys like you, it's a whole different caliber of talent, which is a bummer for me from a work perspective. But a steward to the industry, I love it Like I want. You know, I went to U of A and they've got internships now around lending and I mean SMU's got a program for lending, like that's a huge change. I think it's just going to continue this momentum. I think, well, we don't care about the race.
Speaker 3:Well, it's just been. It's an industry that has its ups and downs. It's had its time in the rain, with getting a bad name because of the things that have happened, but it's just been such an amazing industry for me and my family and the relationships in my life and all that kind of stuff, and I'm super grateful when I see a guy like you that you know it's. It's done what it has for your dad. You just told us that he's on like a three. He's retired, but not retired. I don't even understand that whole thing where he has so much production, but he travels the world all the time and it's just provided such a neat life for him and for you and then for us as well too. I'm just super grateful for it.
Speaker 1:So I wanted to get that from your perspective and I don't want to take too much of your time, but here's a cool story about real estate and I think this is why I would recommend anyone to the industry to get their foot in, both from a consumer perspective but also as a career. I think it's phenomenal. I had a client I've done three loans for. This guy Bought his first house we'll call it 2009. Bought it for 130,000 down by TU, lived there for three years, got the $8,000 tax credit Remember that one and then sold it and made 10 grand on the deal. Okay, so he gets. He takes 10, buys it. Needs the proceeds to buy his next house out South. Buys it out South, moves all the equity from house one to house two which wasn't a lot to start, it's only been three years Moves to the new house, lives there for, let's say, eight years. Okay, now he sells 2021, buys a big house, his third home now. Took all the proceeds from that deal. Okay. So it started on 11th and Harvard went to South Tulsa and then they stayed South Tulsa, but always transferring their equity.
Speaker 1:The one part I did leave out is the first house he bought. The dad gifted him five grand Okay, $5,000. Gift this house that we did in 2021,. He put down $258,000 from this proceeds of sale. He took a $5,000 gift. Wow, let's call it what. What is that? 2009 to.
Speaker 2:That's crazy. And then you know but, and people don't understand that that ROI is on that five grand because that's all you had to put down. Yeah, because they think like, well, yeah, I mean, the houses are appreciating four or 5% a year, but it's like no, like, tell me in that. And then I, I, I told that story to some agents at a you know what their monthly sales meeting and man it hit me, I was like oh my gosh man like that's changing lives right, that's generational right Like that puts someone in a different seat.
Speaker 2:next, Right, yeah, I've heard somebody say this and I it's. It's engraved in my head. It's like, no matter what you do for a living, everybody knows what they do, right? And then the people that are decent at their job, they know how to do their job. But the top, top people know why they do it, and I think that that's what keeps people like you at the top is because it's like those constant reminders.
Speaker 2:It's like man, what I'm doing, it's like it's making a difference in people's lives. One question I wanted to ask you was whoever one of your kids, if any of them get into the industry, do you think you've set the same example that your dad set for you?
Speaker 1:Dang. That's a good question. That's a great question, one I'm probably going to stew on now. Thanks. So my, my, my weekly or my nightly mental check, I mean I think I've done a pretty good job. If I was, you know, cowboy rides away today, I'd say I did a really good job. I'd be. I think I could stand there and look at my kids and be like, yep, they're happy, mom is happy. I think I've done a good job. Now, with you asking it, I'll be very mindful of that going forward as well. But yeah, I mean I think I've done a good job.
Speaker 2:That was a lot lighter than I was listening to a podcast with Ed Milet and he just goes from a skill one through 10, how good of a dad do you think you are Dang and the guy's like-.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm glad you didn't ask that one.
Speaker 2:Okay, the last question I have for you that I've actually I don't think I've ever asked you, but I want to ask you. And we talked about his jump from being at a call center to not only moving to a completely different state city but going full commission as a real licensed loan officer having to get a license. When you started you started at the bank you didn't have to get licensed. You know potentially to make more income, but you know a lot more risk as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the the. The most stressed, I think my dad and I ever were cumulatively, was when we had to study and take that test because you know, dad's had all the success, I'd had a little bit of it. So people just were like, man, you failed this test. You are.
Speaker 3:there are high expectations. I'd had a little bit of it, so people just were like man, you failed this test.
Speaker 2:You are. There are high expectations for you. I was right there with you, but you guys had way more, way more pressure, you know. No, yeah, and then this guy didn't help whenever I called him. And he go I go, dude, I passed, I got, I got a 78 and he goes, that's it.
Speaker 1:Can I just can I write mortgages please? So you guys are super stressed. So, yeah, yeah, but the reason why I went non-depository over depository was I looked at the numbers. I looked at, just like anyone. I look at the, the, the list. Who are the stars? Where are the? You know where? Where's the the most opportunity? Yeah, and they were all non-depository guys.
Speaker 1:So I I go, hey, dad, like you know, you've created something phenomenal. It's my job, it's my obligation to take this to the next level, whatever that is. And so I go, man, to do that. We got to go somewhere else, like I love. I mean we bled, be okay. I mean we loved him and I still do. I mean that's how much I love, in fact, when we resigned.
Speaker 1:So it's a really funny story. Dad and I go hey, we're making the move. Dad goes okay, cool, I go, dad, we're gonna turn on our notice. And then I want to take two weeks off. Since the day I've been in the business, my phone's never stopped, which is a blessing, but I was like I want to take me and the family, we're gonna go on a trip, we're gonna get away, no phones, blah, blah. He goes, perfect.
Speaker 1:The next morning I walk into the office, it's like a scene out of a movie. Like jerry mcguire ceos, downstairs we've got I mean everyone's downstairs. People are crying about my dad, right, like I mean literally crying like oh no, he's like I couldn't do it, I couldn't hold it in and like once that man makes a decision, he just felt like he was doing the bank wrong and so we I mean I got him out of there and we went on and the world went around. But yeah, like he was that, like when he makes a decision, he's like nope, it's time to go. Uh, but that was the main. The main culprit was I wanted to, I wanted, I want to do more, I wanted to grow this thing more and I needed a non-depository platform and it was always a package deal. Yeah, man, it was. I mean, was that a hard sell for you? Dad inked the deal, came home, called. Dad said hey, man, I signed the deal you know I want you in, but you've had.
Speaker 1:You know you are the guy, so I. You know you're the most important thing to me, so whatever you decide, I support and he goes oh no, I'll just sign the paper tomorrow. I'm like alright man. So yeah, he's like it's done, I'm going. I was like Anything else off radio.
Speaker 3:No, this is Philip Alan Morrow and he's the real deal Cool. Thank you guys. Thank you for coming on man.