The Real Deal Podcast
Unlock the door to success in the dynamic world of real estate with your hosts, William Gomez & Alfredo Madrid. Join us as we dive into the inspiring journeys of loan officers and real estate agents, sharing their triumphs, challenges, and invaluable insights. Your key to navigating the ever-evolving landscape of real estate starts here.
The Real Deal Podcast
#22 The Power of Going All In
Amy Whitmarsh, a real estate powerhouse, shares secrets to success that transformed her from a therapist to a top broker-owner. Partnering with her sister Lori, their complementary strengths created a thriving brokerage where agents excel. Amy debunks common myths, like the idea that offering multiple referrals is best. Instead, she suggests building trust with one provider for higher conversion rates. She also encourages agents to focus on their unique value instead of competing on price. For those starting in real estate, Amy advises seeking mentorship and being consistent. It's crucial to reflect on your approach to business and identify areas for growth.
We all know that sometimes getting into a commission-based business, it's referral-based a lot of it is and so you can't be a secret agent. You've got to get out there and let everybody know and shout it from the rooftops. Not only are you now in the business, but you have a team of experts surrounding you to give you a good foundation, so it doesn't feel like, oh, I'm a brand new agent, it's me kind of a thing. It is you and your support system that can help get through the finish line. So if they mean, feel like they need a veteran in in the room, you're surrounded by them no super excited to have amy whitmarsh here.
Speaker 2:um, she's somebody that's a big time player in the tulsa market. Her and her sister are broker owners of a handful of Remax locations. They have a really neat story. I feel they rose to success very quickly in that market, even before they were with Remax, but especially when they switched over to Remax. So one of the things I definitely want to talk about eventually but I have a couple initial questions that is you know, what does it look like to buy all in into a company? Because I feel a lot of people in our industry whether it's lenders or are always one foot in, one foot out, you know, always looking for the better deal somewhere else, always pointing the finger when there's problems, things like that, and I think that there's something to be said about buying all in and what that can do for your business. But first I wanted to ask what did you do before? You mentioned you had a comfortable career before real estate. What did you do? And then tell me about that transition.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, graduating. So I got my master's degree. It's called therapeutic recreation. Okay, my undergrad is speech pathology, therapeutic recreation.
Speaker 1:Basically, I worked with individuals with any type of physical disability overcoming a physical challenge, stroke survivors, amputees, head injuries. I was a therapist at St John Bernson rehab, which is no longer no longer there it's transitioned into something else and I was also the director of member services for the Center for Individuals with Physical Challenges, and so we would intake. It was a day program for people that were transitioning back into the community after a car wreck or a stroke, so it was all rehabilitative services through recreation, rehabilitative services through recreation. And so, uh, I helped run that program. I ran the amputee support group. I was on the licensure board for my profession. I was like clinician of the year, like I did everything you could possibly do in that profession without, like I was topped out, there was nothing, there was nowhere else to go. Um, I was on the original licensure board for the state, like under the governor, to get licensure for that profession. It was that feels like a million years ago. Um, it's been 18 years.
Speaker 2:So when you made the transition is that kind of why? Because you felt like you've kind of reached the top of where you wanted to be there.
Speaker 1:So no, I mean the story, cause I was happy, I loved what I did. It was very fulfilling, as you can imagine, working with families and trying to, you know, bringing hope back to their, their world. Um, but my sister, who is my younger sister, had always had her um real estate license Even our dad did before he passed away and so she got into it very young, like right out of high school. She paid for college cash with real estate deals and then her and another individual started a small company together while she was in college, at TU, and anyway, I was home on maternity leave with my youngest, she was on maternity leave with her oldest they're only five weeks apart, they're cousins and she we were just sitting on the floor one day, kind of watching the babies play, and she, unbeknownst to her, was casting the vision for her company, like where she saw it going in the future. And you know she's very contract oriented and systems oriented, great trainer. But she was like I really want to connect with builders and developers and I want to grow the company.
Speaker 1:I was just sitting there listening to this like why am I not a part of this? Like, why had I, to this day and time, never considered doing anything like that, and it just opened a a door that I prayed about. Well, Carl and I were like what would this look like? Because, you know, I was on maternity leave, so I was home and I was teaching classes at TCC for my other profession, and um was like why, why wouldn't I? Let's think about this, let's pray about it. And I did, and so that's what I, you know, I did the whole. I had a baby at home, did the online course like let's see how this goes, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:And got my license, and from the moment I got my license, the two of us as partners, just like it, just exploded. It was an obvious this is what's supposed to happen, like God moment, yeah, um so what was Lori wanting to do after, like, why did she go to college?
Speaker 3:Cause I mean, we just went to a um, um, an event for you guys, and you guys had an award banquet and one of your agents that was sitting by me. He's like I always find these events kind of awkward, because you're just pretty much telling everybody how much they're making. And then I'm like, well, I mean, even without these events, like in our industry it's, you can look it up, it's pretty. You know, it's pretty easy to get an idea what people are making. And but you know, I think the top two people in your uh office did over half a mil or something like that right, yeah, yeah, over half a mil, between over half a mil or a million in commissions diamond level.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and uh, they all have master's degrees too, right?
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 3:No, I don't think so I'm making I'm making a joke of how you could have and you said you met a guy that had his GED at some conference, his loan officer that had made over $5 million in commissions. Oh yeah, To where, like so if she kind of got through college with her real estate commissions, like what was she going to college for?
Speaker 1:Engineering. Oh, she's incredibly intelligent. She also has her master's degree seriously doing all of that yeah, she was young and married and going to tu and got her master's at oklahoma state.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I just had, I was telling you before I am, um, no, you're good that I just had lunch with another one of your agents and she was telling me she's got a boy and a girl about the same, um, uh, the same gap that I will have. So my son will turn two in May and I have a little girl coming in June and, um, and you know, one of the things that I think about is like I really hope that they get along, because, um, sometimes you know, you have like she tells me, she's like I love my brother, but she's like I don't get along with my sister. And so to hear that you know you went into business with your sister and you guys just killed it. I mean, you're with her every single week, every single day, most likely like did you guys always have that relationship?
Speaker 1:Or Well, we didn't always work together, so no, but I'm six years older than her, and then we have a younger brother too, and they're only 18 months apart, so they were very close. I was just ahead of them, so I would say yes and no, but nothing like now. I mean, when you run a business together, you're all in all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thing like now. I mean when you run a business together, you're all in all the time. Yeah, you're. You're the most trusted person in other than you know your spouse have you guys had seasons where it wasn't like that?
Speaker 2:no no, it's just always. You guys have always had enough respect for each other that it's. Oh, yeah, yeah, there's no, it's either.
Speaker 1:You're all in, like you mentioned earlier, um, but a lot of people try it. I mean, we get asked about this a lot like how do you work with family so close and still love each other and want to see each other and spend time together? And um, it's just something. I guess we never thought about it, just like, okay, we're very determined, we're very focused, we're very entrepreneurial, driven, like, um, my dad owned and operated companies. Are our dads I say that I'm sitting here, me, but our dad, we have the same parents, mother and father um, entrepreneurial, uh, had three businesses that he ran before he passed away, was in real estate as well. I mean our mom, very focused, very, um, goal oriented and driven and has worked, you know, her whole life. She's still trying to retire right now, but still working. You know, almost 80 years old. So it's just like we're, it's just kind of in us and it was never really an option. I don't think to think we were ever going to quit.
Speaker 2:Do you feel like you have to put on different hats when you're in a personal environment, say you guys are at a family outing and then at work? Do you guys, or are you guys the same person with each other, no matter what?
Speaker 1:I think we're the same person and that's, I think, probably the beauty of it is that, I mean, we're in meetings all the time where people don't know we're sisters and how we communicate with each other. It's kind of like one of those somebody needs to tell them that we're sisters because it's like, oh my gosh, you guys are kind of going and it's just like no that's just how we communicate, we're not mad at each other.
Speaker 1:We love each other. We love each other, but we uh very different in how our brains. Like I probably in one side of the brain, she's the other, and that's why we do well together, because she's operating in her gifts and I was. I came on to operate in my gifts, which are polar opposites. She doesn't like to sit and do this kind of thing or be out in front of people, even though she's an incredible educator. She would say give me a spreadsheet, give me all the accounting, give me my computer screen, and I'm good to go.
Speaker 2:Good to go. So you have firsthand experience of completely changing industries. First of all, was it cold turkey, Like did you just stop working over there and start over here?
Speaker 1:Or was it like overlap month transition okay um, we all obviously wanted to see, uh, what it was like, because at that time I was just doing prn, because like nights and weekends kind of yeah, or fill in at the hospital yeah, and so you have firsthand experience of doing that.
Speaker 2:Plus you um, bring on agents. You recruit agents, bring them on, help them start their career, help them most of them are. What percentage of the people you bring on are brand new to any job? None of them, right, like they're all transitioning from something else.
Speaker 1:Well, sometimes they're college students coming straight out of college. So they're a student, obviously, but that's still I mean.
Speaker 2:It's pretty rare, probably right that you get somebody straight out of college, or is it like, no, like half of the people you bring out, no, no, no, that's what I'm saying. Like one out of 10, maybe, yeah, maybe, but and actually they're really hard workers because they know they're good test takers, they're good networkers.
Speaker 1:They knew, I mean, if you were successful in college and got a degree, you're. It's a system and a process to get through all of that and it's human based, you've got to do, I mean. So it's a good transition typically and they're they're good to, uh, shadow, yeah, they're good to mentor, cause they're like sponges, you know tell me what to do To that agent leaving her current job or his current job to come to real estate.
Speaker 2:You've been through it. What advice do you have for them as far as how should they navigate that transition, both from a when do you quit your old job and like when do you have to burn the ships, like when do you have to decide that to go all in?
Speaker 1:Well, I would say at least six months reserve. I mean when you know you've got about six months reserve to pay bills and cause you know you're got about six months reserve to pay bills and cause you know you're going to go into probably a W-2 position to a 1099 position where it's just commission based, and so that is the biggest thing and transition for people. Um and and we do that in in the interview process like where are you in the process of exiting and what kind of savings do you have? And do you have a spouse, someone that's working full time, that provides insurance? You know all that. We want to know all the questions, because obviously you know two, three, five months down the road.
Speaker 1:We're trying to get them very successful, very quick, like right out of the gate. So you know, you kind of get a taste of it and you can feel the rhythm of how it's supposed to go and what you're supposed to do. But we all know that sometimes getting into a commission-based business it's referral-based a lot of it is, and so and you can't be a secret agent you got to get out there and let everybody know and shot it from the rooftops. Not only are you now in the business, but you have a team of experts surrounding you to give you a good foundation. So it doesn't feel like, oh, I'm a brand new agent, use me, kind of a thing. It it is you and your support system that can help get through the finish line. So if they need, feel like they need a veteran in the room, you're surrounded by them.
Speaker 2:Sure. So you get to see a lot of agents, right Like you get to interview a lot of agents and then you get to see what they did or didn't do. So do you feel like you're getting a good feel for who's going to make it and who's not?
Speaker 1:It's funny you ask that. I don't think so. The interview room is not a good indicator. People interview really well sometimes. And you think they are going to do like skyrocket and fizzle and then some come in and hardly will say anything. But, then they're just like head down, grind, hustle every day, do the work time block, they do it all and it's just like it's a really. It's a really. We're not great judges of it because of performance in an interview room at all.
Speaker 2:So I'll ask you, from a different angle, what have been the unique outliers of the people that have shown success to the ones that haven't?
Speaker 1:People that show up to the meetings and masterminds. They come to all the classes, they do all their onboarding activities which, at Remax, results, it's all. It's called trainual and we do it all virtually and videos. So we have it's like a grading system and we can see how far they are in the system. Anybody that onboards correctly and stays engaged, no problem like no, they're gonna be yeah, all of them like what's what?
Speaker 3:what's a? Like a percentage success rate? Yeah, success rate. And then what are you counting success as, whether it's volume or or?
Speaker 1:or commissions or something.
Speaker 3:Right, because I don't think anybody gets into this business thinking like I'm going to be an agent to make 30 or $50,000 a year or something like that, right?
Speaker 1:So well, it depends on what their why is and what their goal is, and everybody's is different. It could be that somebody is just coming in to do uh, and I don't I we never use the word part time, but they don't have a goal to hit like big, big numbers. They just want to supplement their family's income, you know, maybe to go on family vacations or trips, you know, and have a community of people that they enjoy doing work with. So it depends on their why. But and they'll tell us, you know so if they're showing up and they're closing consistently or having conversations consistently with people, I mean, some people's goal is to sell, you know, one to two houses a month. I mean I don't know if you remember seeing our stats on last Monday, two weeks ago, whenever it was.
Speaker 3:The banquet yes, like the average commission or whatever. Yes, for each agent.
Speaker 1:We're at 4.4 million, which is incredibly high and it's 15.8 transactions per side per agent, like it's. That's really high and it's like almost double the average.
Speaker 3:One of the things that you and Lori said when we first met with you guys was that you know that you guys rather higher quality rather than quantity, like some of the other companies out there, and I think even in the you know short time that we've known you guys, I mean, I think that really speaks for itself, because I feel like a lot of people say that but it doesn't really reflect in the numbers. So another thing that's kind of a cliche is knowing your why. You know I feel like everybody talks about that but not very many people know their why. So what percentage of people do you think actually do really know what that is?
Speaker 1:I mean, I would hope in our group 100%. But you know that's not true In our group 100%.
Speaker 3:But you know, that's not true.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't know 60, 50, 60%, that kind of hold on to that every day and that's what their driver is.
Speaker 3:You think it's that high 50, 60%.
Speaker 1:I mean, we're pretty intentional about who we partner with, and so I think so.
Speaker 3:What about, like, just the rest of the-?
Speaker 1:Oh low.
Speaker 3:Like what would you give me?
Speaker 1:Just any real low, like what would you give me Of just any real estate? I think we have like 7,000 agents in the MLS.
Speaker 2:Like what do you-? No, we've got about 5,500.
Speaker 3:5,500,. So what about 5,000 agents?
Speaker 1:I don't know. You've I mean you've got a lot of, you know, part-time agents or people that are just out there doing for family and friends and working at a like a flat fee brokerage. That there's no intentionality about it, it's just I'm here when the wind blows, kind of a thing, so I don't even know if they're and I don't want to be degrading because that could be a business model that is very successful for some people. That's just not ours. So I would just say it's probably very low. Do your Pareto principle 80 20 rule?
Speaker 3:yeah, I was gonna say under 500. What would you say? Yeah?
Speaker 2:I mean it's, it's just tough because, like some people, it's very surfacy. Why, like we all, like to just go well, I want to take care of my family, right, but I feel that runs out at some point, like it, that that stops motivating you at some point and I don't think people dig deep and I think you have to have processes and you have to have support so that you can help people arrive at that. Do you think that you guys having such a high number in all these areas, is that a Lori and Amy thing, or is that a REMAX thing?
Speaker 1:Well, lori always likes to say we don't really know. Was it the chicken that came first?
Speaker 3:or the egg that came first.
Speaker 1:We really don't know. We think it's a good combination, sure, and it took us a long time to decide we would partner with RE-MAX as well. We did tons of homework and we were a small independent, so there's a lot of pride that comes with releasing that and stepping into, you know, a support system that's way bigger than yourself and not really understanding it, because all you've known is something you know that you've created, which is not to diminish that at all. It was just a next step for us and we were like, if we're going to do this, we're going to partner with the best and most recognized, most trusted, like all the things that we felt like if we were going to do this. Because when we moved, when we moved over to Remax, it was also with the idea too, that when um our owner, um retired that we would have first right of refusal to, to to own it and um, it was supposed to be a five-year program and it it ended up being four, so it was.
Speaker 1:I don't know if we were ready, ready, but we took about a year to get fully ready before we started recruiting to what our systems and processes were, but we knew if we were going to do it. It was going to be about making it very agent-centric and we wanted to be about building the businesses of of the agents, not about us building our business, because obviously it's reciprocity if one happens the other happens very naturally. But we just kind of felt like in in the industry there was a whole lot of broker centric models and not agent centric models that were really about the individual and the business of the individual and helping grow that agent by agent. Not everybody come and see who sticks.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just intentionality, it's just. I feel like we just had something better to offer in all of those realms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how much does and I asked this a little bit at the beginning, or alluded that I was going to ask it but how much does it help that an regardless of the brokerage that an agent is all bought into the company, the brokerage, the team? Um, again, we deal with a lot of real estate agents and there is a lot out there of just people trying to look for either that lowest split or the highest split for them, or the next thing or whatever it is. I feel you guys do a really good job of getting your people to buy in. We can even talk about that a little bit real quick. Just to add to that is I feel that a lot of people's value proposition right now is autonomy for the agent, autonomy for the loan officer, autonomy for the branch manager, and I think autonomy it's kind of another way to just kind of say abandonment, meaning like right.
Speaker 2:So that's what happens. They're like we're going to let you make all your own decisions and we're not going to bother you. But all they're really saying is like, hey, we're not going to give you any more time you know anything like that. It sounds really cool because you're like.
Speaker 1:I want to run my own business until you get to the place where you feel like, oh, my goodness, what do I do now? Now, like so a really good story of, and, and so truly it's an entrepreneurial spirit, like there are some brokerages and this isn't. I don't want to diminish other people's business models. That's not what I'm here to do, because there's many. But we are truly an entrepreneurial type of a business where they can make their own decisions about commission structures or how they want to. Like, do you need to get your foot in the door? Let your you know, come in and say, hey, I want to build a relationship with you. Let's do something at a reduced commission to try to let's see if we work well together, whatever there's some brokerages that was like, oh no, you're not, you're not cutting our portion of this side of you know. It's just like no, that was a business decision you made as a business owner. We trust you with that. Obviously, that's not a business model you should probably continue with. But if it gets your foot in the door, say with an investor or somebody, that is going to be, you know, a long-term relationship with you. Need to do what's best for your business and we're going to support you in that. And there's just other places. You can't negotiate those terms. It's all or nothing.
Speaker 1:And our very first recruit that we got, I would say eight or nine years ago when we were starting to build the company, that's why he moved. He had somebody he was working on for so long to get their listing and potentially their purchase as well, and they wouldn't work with him unless he got a discount on the listing and he moved over, stepped he, by the way, the other company that he was with he hadn't sold anything in an entire year of being there, like 12 whole months moved over and went immediately into production, like started that relationship. And I mean it just started that snowball effect of I'm connected. Now I'm running my own business, I can do this one thing after another, after another, after another, not that he was using that model every time, but you just need momentum Sometimes, you just need a spark and that it's just a great story to say we trust you with that, like go, do it go in the business. To say we trust you with that, like go, do it Go in the business, prove your value.
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, what percentage Like how many agents are falling out right now? From all the agents that get licensed in one year, how many don't make it to two years?
Speaker 1:They say it's eight out of ten, but the amount of people that are still coming in to the business. You really, the stats aren't falling off like you would think they would.
Speaker 2:Well, the overall count is it, but there's still 80% of the people are not making it in the business past what like the second year?
Speaker 1:They won't renew their license right, I would say first year.
Speaker 2:Right, they won't renew their license.
Speaker 1:You can't live for with no income for over a year. What's?
Speaker 2:what's? What would you say? Obviously this leads to no income, but why? What's the number one or a couple of reasons why agents don't make it first year?
Speaker 1:They don't understand what it fully takes to wake up every day and be your own boss and the intrinsic motivation related to that. If you've been working a corporate position, you're required to do all the things to get the paycheck at the end. That doesn't translate over into I'm my own boss, I have to be where I'm supposed to be, I have to make meetings like you're assigned those things. If you're doing it for a corporation now you Now you are your own corporation, so you set all the standards and it's a hard pill to swallow and I don't think people intentionally do that.
Speaker 1:I just think. They think I can do that, but they don't realize it's difficult. I think it's a mixture of discipline and accountability, oh for sure, and if you don't have somebody even if you do, sometimes it's maybe hard, I wasn't cut out for this, you know and some people. I think give up too quick.
Speaker 3:One of the things that you brought up had a mastermind that we had together. You don't really hear a lot from agents, but I was actually just listening to a podcast. Actually, it was uh, alfredo, which is the guy that we went, and everything you see on my social media like I learned from this guy. He was interviewing your favorite guy.
Speaker 3:I forget his name biffini yeah, I knew his last name but I forgot his first name and, uh, right away, like within like 10 minutes of the podcast, um, he talks about how no agent should ever refer three lenders. And we, you had that conversation and it kind of ruffled some feathers a little bit in the group. There was like 10 agents maybe. Um, I was just glad that I wasn't the one saying it, but it was, it was benefiting me. But after that it has pushed me to and I did.
Speaker 3:I didn't go back and think and I said, if you look at the top 100 agents in our area, one thing that they have in common is most people have the one inspector, the one lender, the one title company, um, and then all these other people that are trying to get to the not even top 100, the top 500, they're still like hey, here's some offer, even more than three, but even two. So talk a little bit about that. What you were sharing that day, because I'm sure that's where you got it from, because I know you said you guys do a lot of coaching through him. He used to be a REMAX agent, but I thought that that was so light, that was so good, because there's, in my opinion and I know it's in my best interest to say this In my opinion, and I know it's in my best interest to say this, but I truly believe that if an agent is giving more than one person, they're doing themselves a disservice because it's bringing down their conversion rate.
Speaker 1:Right and it slows down the process. So I always just say look, you can use whoever you want to do your lending with. You can use, because right away they're going to say, oh, we'll just use our bank, we love our banker. Blah, blah, blah. Great, go get it.
Speaker 1:Are you looking for a reliable, trusted local lender? If so, this is who I trust and this is who I've done business with for a lot of years. I know their systems, their processes, their underwriters are in town, we have instant communication. You want this process to be seamless and if there's any hiccups, you want them close. Like you don't want to be trying to find people when there's trouble and I always just say I'd love to give you who I trust and you, setting those expectations at the front, they're like who do I call? Like they don't want to go down a path of we're talking to three people and not knowing who to go with, Because a lot of times the terms are very close. Like, even though you're talking to two or three different lenders, they're all just so, so very close. It's just like how would I even pick? Well, why did you even start?
Speaker 3:Well, and most people don't even know how to shop it out. I'm in a shopping situation right now that I'm the person that they were like, wanting to get a second opinion, and uh, I just randomly get a message, um, and say saying hey, I, you know, want to see what your rate was for this exact thing. And then, um, and then I finally get a cost sheet, even though I don't have an application, and I'm like, oh, we're at that same rate. And then they're like, oh well, if it's the same thing, then I'm just going to stay where I'm at. But I'm like, well, send me the sheet. They sent me the sheet. They were charging $1,000 extra for discount points. And then the client's like, oh, um, okay, like I, I didn't, they don't know what they don't know. And then, but the other thing, I told them. I'm like, hey, this is dated march 11th and so it's a completely different day yeah um, and people don't understand that.
Speaker 3:So even if you have like three really really competitive lenders, unless you really know the business, most likely I don't believe you're going to get the best deal yeah, and it's like they get decision fatigue too, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like well, and then it happened to us with uh, with this last client we were talking about, he started talking to other lenders before you know.
Speaker 3:He's all confused about what direction and what is with one lenders already? Yeah, like it's already st strenuous on you, you know.
Speaker 1:And then you throw in all the dynamics of all the other people and teams and so lowers their conversion rate. For the agents. I'm not whatever works for them, but setting up the expectation that, hey, why don't you start here? See if you guys mesh, see if you like the terms, and then you know, like if your banker's running some numbers for you too, like because you already have a relationship with that person, I want you to use who you feel most comfortable with, but I and I will work with whoever you want to work with.
Speaker 1:We can't ever limit them to that, but most people especially if you're working by repeat and referral business they want to know who you want them to call because they're already part of your team. So that's how we work is repeat and referral business?
Speaker 3:That's a Buffini concept too, if you have and I always do this in every single, but I love like numbers and percentages so like, if you have 100 agents, how many of those people are given three names out?
Speaker 2:all across the board, probably 80 80, and I mean, and that's what's taught at most brokerages, right what's crazy, though, to me that I always bring up with agents is they might 80, it might be given three lenders, but all 100 of them are getting one title company, yeah. And so when I get that one, all the time they're like, well, it's, it's respa, like we have to give three. And I'm always like, well, how many title companies do you give? And they're all like, I don't even tell them, I just send it to my title company, right? So it goes to show you it's not. Has had nothing to do with respa or being fit, it's just, I think, when we get down to the core of it, they're just afraid to put their name on the line for someone else if you give three names then it's your choice, then it's your choice, it was on you.
Speaker 2:If you make a choice, but if you say you have to use will and will messes up, guess who looks bad? Right, it's the agent.
Speaker 3:But it's the same thing for the title company I just had a thursday update call today and, uh, actually it was for a th Thursday update call for a closing that I didn't make. I was just checking in to make sure that everything went well and the lady was like man, it was amazing, like thank you so much, the place was beautiful, the people were really nice, they had amazing things to say about you even though you weren't there. All these great things and I'm like that's so good to hear. I go, because most people don't know.
Speaker 3:But there's 35 to 40 people that it takes to close one single deal, including the buyer and the seller, and the main person that you mainly talk to is your agent. And then the second person is your lender and everybody else. It's kind of behind the curtains. But no matter how good of a job your lender and your realtor do, if you get to the closing table and it's a, it's a disaster. It can make both the lender and the the real estate agent look really bad and and such a good experience can just go down the drain, if you so.
Speaker 3:So that's that's what I don't understand, because that that reflects bad on them, right because at, because at the end of the day, the client can be like, well, who picked, like why are we closing here? You know, but that's what I don't understand really, of why they're very, like, confident in their title company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just I don't know, I just feel less can go wrong at title. Maybe I don't know, like there's.
Speaker 3:I mean I have a deal right now that was supposed to close in February of 2024, and it still hasn't closed because of title issues.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, but those have nothing to do with the title company.
Speaker 3:I know, I know, I'm just saying that's the seller. I'm just curious, I'm just curious.
Speaker 2:So speaking of competition right now, I feel like there's a big push right now in our industry to commoditize lending, meaning like lowest price wins, price wins, just lowest price wins, lowest price wins. I feel there's a lot of people attempting to do that with real estate, redfin Zillow starting to threaten to have their own.
Speaker 3:Who just acquired? What was the acquirement that just happened with Redfin? Who just bought Redfin? Was it Quicken Rocket, something like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think they just bought Redfin.
Speaker 3:Yep, so it's just happening.
Speaker 1:There's always going to be that stuff, though, which?
Speaker 2:meaning they're probably trying to say, hey, this is more transactional than it is full service.
Speaker 2:I'm asking you this because I want you kind of to explain the difference. I've got to work with you firsthand and got to experience a full service real estate agent from you, and so I want you to tell me a little bit about what do you feel the difference is between and what's going to keep that real real estate agent in business by giving that full service and being able to charge full price? We're seeing it more and more and more and more how real estate agents are willing to discount their services, right? Some because they're trying to be competitive, but others because they're just trying to sell their business a la carte, right, like I'm just going to list your property and I'm not involved anymore, good luck. And I've had some agents do that, where I'll call them and try to give them an update on the file, because they're the listing agent and they're like don't call me, I don't care, just I mean they don't say it in those words, but I'm like I'm not involved anymore.
Speaker 2:I just Right, that's a limited service, limited service and you have to make that, indicated that, and in your broker remarks it has to say all questions direct, I mean you know, to the seller.
Speaker 1:So what is a true full service agent and why is highest?
Speaker 2:level.
Speaker 1:I would say don't cut yourself short. Most people decrease their value when they're talking about money.
Speaker 1:Like it's just like, wait a second, no, I'm going to provide you a full. Like you don't you need to have a menu of services, of what you do for full service and a lot of the times this helps so so much when you're working by repeat or referral business, because you're getting a referral by somebody that's already used, you, knows you, likes you, trusts you. The person that is going to be signing up with you also trusts that person that automatically have built in trust for you. So it's like, well, if you did that for them, I want you to do this for me. So I want what they got, kind of a thing. So I mean I would. I would say, working cold turkey with somebody that just calls you willy nilly. You're going to have to work a little bit harder to earn their trust and want your full commission kind of a thing, Because right now it is a negotiation.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's always been a negotiable term. But how do you negotiate? I need X for you to work with me because you're going to get the whole package. Um, is that? Is that answering your question? Like some people, it's a race to the bottom. Like literally, let me work for you for a very low percentage or a flat fee, just so I can like, or a limited service.
Speaker 2:Like is there a consumer out there right now that benefits more from a limited service than full service?
Speaker 1:Um, I don't know who would, because there's, like you said, 30 to 40 people working on a transaction in the background and now that person is a for sale by owner. They're doing all of those things. They're taking their own photographs, they're doing their own marketing, they've got their own key box, they've got their own, you know, have to take their showing request. They have to, you know, work with. If there's another buyer's agent involved, which is usually what happens, a buyer agent will bring a buyer, and so they're working with both the buyer and the seller for whatever, probably a flat fee or something that the seller was willing to give just to step out of the deal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was just going to say I think, at the end of the day, you just have to know your value, and there's so many people out there that don't know their value. I mean, I had lunch with an agent yesterday that he told me that, um, with the new NAR thing that happened, he actually just got paid 6% on a deal that he represented the buyer, because he was just like they were offering this much on the buyer side that the seller paid for, because because now it's not like hey, we're offering 2%, we're offering 2.5.
Speaker 3:You have to write in an offer and that's what most people say. They're like, how much are you guys paying? And they just say send us an offer, right. And then he structured it to where to where they agreed to something, not thinking that they were going to have to pay the full thing, and and he ended up getting 6%. So know your value. The last question that I have for you is you know, we've gotten a few, uh, new loan officers in our office, um, and one of the things that I I hear all the time is is man, um, I'm just not confident to like get things going and even talk to my center of influence until I get licensed. Right, they get licensed, they realize nothing changes. Like you're still in the same boat.
Speaker 3:You still have to make the calls and then you're like, well, I'm just hesitant to call and reach out because I just don't have the experience. Or what if they ask me a question that I don't have? Yesterday I had a coffee with an agent that was brand new. She's got one deal, one listing, about to go live, and she tells me the same thing. She goes I just can't wait to have the experience so I can talk to people like you talk to me. And I go how many times have I mentioned product or rates or guidelines or anything in this conversation? And she goes you haven't. And I go exactly like you don't. So my question to you, my last question to you, is what do you tell a new agent that is really struggling with confidence because they don't have the quote, unquote experience?
Speaker 1:You're not in the business. You're in the business for yourself, but not by yourself. We are with you. You are going in with a team of experts I mean, like with all of our brokers combined like. You have the power of like 300 years of experience behind you, um, and we're not going to let you fail.
Speaker 1:So whenever you're stepping out, we're going to help with, like, that introductory letter with the sphere to say, look, we can work on every script you want, like, but it is truly about building a relationship with the people. If you don't like people and you don't like doing that, you're in the wrong business. Like, if you can't do those, those are pretty basic things, like getting in a networking group, taking someone to coffee once, um, like, there was a great script that I read today. Um, I was in a buffini group, it was pretty awesome and I'm not going to be able to give the person credit, cause you know somebody from another state, but it was just like. This has really been working great for me.
Speaker 1:Either in my handwritten letters that I send, or I just sent out an email, it's just like hey, um, one of my goals for the year for my business is to meet with one person for coffee or lunch every week, not necessarily even to talk about business, but just to catch up with you. How's your kids doing, how's the family, whatever. But if you want to talk about real estate, I'm there and you know everybody wants to talk about real estate. I can't go anywhere anywhere in my life without somebody wanting to ask what's the market like, what's the industry like now after the NAR settlement, like everybody, and the more you're in the business, the more people just want to talk about that. And, um, so I'm just saying this script was, and everybody was just like.
Speaker 1:This is genius. It's so simple. Send out a quick email to you know your favorite people or whoever's in your CRM as your sphere, and just say one of my goals is to set up coffee, and we don't have to talk about anything, but just how you're doing. And, um, if you want to talk about business, I'm here, like, or at the lunch or the coffee or whatever he said people respond so well to that. Just like, you have to be likable and trustable and you know things. And hey for her, for the brand new agent, bring your mentor along with you. Yeah, I mean, that's what.
Speaker 3:I tell that's what we tell our new loan officers Like if we're available, just say you know the new loan officer reaches out to you. Which, by the way, say you know the new loan officer reaches out to you. Which, by the way, when I started at the bank, I reached out to Amy over Facebook. I think I heard crickets she ghosted you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I heard crickets, but what if I would have?
Speaker 3:been like, hey, what if I? Hey, would you be willing to meet with Alfredo and I? You know, alfredo is the number one lender in town. Blah, blah, blah. That might have picked your interest a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Might've picked your interest a little bit more, a little bit more Well, I would've said I know Alfredo.
Speaker 2:They're the same church.
Speaker 1:I do know, alfredo.
Speaker 3:But anyways, the last thing I wanted to say, and I'll kick it over for you to wrap it up, alfredo is consistency's key, and I feel like we've said this probably in about 80% of these, but I don't care. Like I'll say it till she's been in the business. Last year was her first year as a solo agent. She was with the team two years Um and she did 13 million 13 million solo.
Speaker 3:Um, but she talked about how she, before she even like started that she just got a bunch of gifts, a bunch of like $5 gifts or whatever did pop buys and started doing thank you cards. But she told us that she does. She's doing that every quarter, right? And then you've been in the business. You're probably one of the closest people to Alfredo that that's been on the podcast, cause it's normally like. I mean, I've been in the business for seven years. The other person's anywhere between one to eight, and then Alfredo's always over 20. So you're the closest, you're 18. He's over 20. And I get your newsletters, your consistent newsletters, and also your. What are they? They're like mail newsletters I just got one yesterday, the flyer things, the postcards.
Speaker 3:Guys, I've really known you what three months and I've probably received I've already been touched by you outside of our work relationship as a consumer probably like seven times. So that's all I've got to say there. Alfredo, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:No comment just good luck. She just wanted to mention that. Thank you, that's important?
Speaker 2:um, so will, and I actually went to this event one time. It was a victory church, by the way. Um, I know I've known amy for a while and she's a very faithful person and, uh, you know, I think she points most of her family and her professional and her business and everything um, towards god and and his word and and that's her foundation. I think that's a big reason for her success as well, too, and I really wanted to honor that about her business and her personal and her whole family. They got a beautiful family, but we went to this event and this guy named John Maxwell I don't know if you ever heard of him.
Speaker 2:He was talking about how, when he goes and talks to these entrepreneurs and these big CEOs and all these guys, he always asks a question. He said what's the biggest lesson you've ever learned in your business? And he says that, not, he goes, not 80% he goes, not 90% he goes. But 100% of them always start by telling me a very difficult time in their life or in their career or in their, before they tell me what the biggest lesson is. And so I'm putting you on the spot. What would you say is it didn't have to be the hardest thing, but what would you say is one of the biggest lessons you learned, and what part of your business did that come from? Because I know we do learn our biggest lessons through our hardest times. Right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:That's where growth happens.
Speaker 2:It goes back to all, uh, all things for good for those who love them. And what would you say was used for good for you. That you had a storm, maybe that you had to go through? Um, if you can think of any and if not, it's okay you could just share with us something that you think is something that's the biggest you know takeaway from this, or the biggest advice you'd give to an agent.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, Um, there's just been in real estate in general. It's not when you're going to have difficulty, it's or if you will, but when you will.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I would say there's so many that have happened over the years and I'm not saying that to be like downcast- it's just a hard.
Speaker 1:It's a hard profession because it's it's people, it's humans, it's the biggest asset of their, you know, high emotions, the high and the low. And I think, um, an asset that I bring to the table is calm and clarity, and not trying to go high or low, just just staying right here, just knowing that it always works itself out. Like, somehow it always works itself out. And so probably, um, um, or maybe just early on, you know, working with kind of like an outside the box lender that was trying to do some stuff that never really came to fruition, and I won't I won't go into detail about that but literally got three or four families wrapped up in this where it never like got them into their homes.
Speaker 1:They weren't going to be able to close Like it was. It was one of those almost fraudulent type of a thing. But you know you're young in the business.
Speaker 2:You don't really know, just trying to make deals.
Speaker 1:And all of the people that we went into transaction with all worked out. It all panned out because they were in you know other situations where either their credit was low or they didn't have enough down payment. We worked through it all and we got them traditional lending, but a trusted source had come and said, hey, I'm going to do this new thing and whatever. And so you're like, oh great, I've got these people over here that are trying to get in a house. We finally get them into a house. That kind of a thing can't close the deal Months of this.
Speaker 3:I mean to where?
Speaker 1:it's just like sickening. Like you're, I'm physically sick because there's so much I can't control. Um, god always works it out, but in that is, and he did and and and not not just in is and he did and and and not not just in in a way that got them to where they needed to be, but far better than what we could have asked for or even thought in the situation that they were, that they originated in, and so just turning that over to God and just saying, lord, I don't know how we got here. Please let me learn everything I need to learn from this. So I number one don't do this again, but show yourself so mightily in this that only you could have gotten them to where they are today and um, and heal my body, because I was, I was sick, like literally physically sick over it and um, it, it all, it all worked out that that also feels like a million years ago too, but golly, stressful time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how long was that?
Speaker 1:I would say it probably drug out eight or nine months.
Speaker 3:And how long did it feel?
Speaker 1:Like I can still feel it.
Speaker 2:Like you, still think back of it and cringe right.
Speaker 3:That's just a friendly reminder, because most of the time for people is like it's like a day. Yeah, but it feels like it was a month or something Right.
Speaker 2:But that's such a good lesson for her to learn and I can tell even the dynamic that you and Lori have that you bring a lot of calmness to that relationship, that you bring a lot of optimism to it, that you're going to, that you're like, hey, we're going to work this out. You're going to that you're like, hey, we're going to work this out. And you got to have that person for the other person, but a lot of times for ourselves. And I love that you took that lesson away, that you're like, man, if, if that situation can work out, if that situation that made me sick he figured out a way, then I mean we can make it through a lot, oh for sure, and I would just encourage every young agent again it's not going to be a matter of if it happens, but when it happens you're going to trip up.
Speaker 1:There's going to be struggle in this industry. There just is, and with all the changes and laws and keeping up partner with a brokerage that you can trust, that you know they've got your back and that you're going to walk into something setting the expectations correctly, because you were taught correctly. You're not, you know, walking in alone like autonomous, like that. Just that's crazy. Like I wouldn't, that would be like the worst word to use is walking into an industry like this.
Speaker 1:so yeah, partner, as a new agent, with somebody you can trust and that can get you over those, through the difficult times, cause they're going to come and. I don't want to end it on a bad note like that, but um no, that's, that's good yeah.
Speaker 3:I think that's unless you're, unless you're, you're living in 2020 and 2021, they were never going to come Right. We had a guy here in the office where he would. He would always remind us he'd be like guys. This is not going to last forever. And we'd be like yes, it is Like we're killing it.
Speaker 1:Knock them out, knock them out, knock them out. Let's hire more people.
Speaker 3:We need more people. Second quarter 2022,. Just came on knocking yeah, yeah, and he was like I'm not going to tell you guys I was right, but I was.