ForgeX Files

FxF 15 - Why ABM Programs Fail: The Brutal Truth About Strategy, Targeting, and Tech | Mason Cosby, Scrappy ABM

• Davis Potter

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In this week's episode of the ForgeX Files, host Davis sits down with Mason Cosby, Founder and CEO of Scrappy ABM. Together, they unpack why most ABM programs crash before they ever take flight.

Key Takeaways:

1.) Leadership Buy-In is Essential: ABM programs often collapse when they are initiated without strong sponsorship from senior leadership.

2.) One Person ≠ Strategy + Ops + Content: Expecting a single ABM lead to manage strategy, operations, and content without a supporting team is a structural failure.

3.) Target Accounts Are NOT a Wishlist: Selecting accounts that do not resemble your best customers results in wasted investment and misaligned efforts.

Closing Note: Mason offers a direct and practical assessment of why ABM often falls short. The root causes are clear: poor strategic planning, fragmented execution, and unrealistic targeting. For GTM leaders seeking to build durable ABM programs, this episode outlines the critical foundations required for long-term success.

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Forge XFiles. Today we have on someone who, if you do not already know. I'll be shocked. we have the founder and CEO of Scrappy ABM Mason Cosson, and we're gonna talk about why ABM programs fail. What are the root causes that you should be thinking about should be addressing? In the beginning of the design phase, whether you are looking to scale your program globally, or you're just starting your first initial pilot, we're gonna break down all of the different challenges, how to overcome them. Mason, what's up? Welcome. What?

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

Davis, thanks so much for, having me on. I'm excited to dig into it and it is a future side note. Can you just introduce me for everything that I do? Because that was, been really struggle with the amount of inflated ego that I now have.

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

We're just, we're, that's what we're here for. We're hyping it up Let's do it. Well, Mason, first off, let's start in before we get. Ahead of ourselves when we start talking about scaling ABM across multiple regions. Really building your center of excellence. Let's get into the pilot phase because this is so critically important. You're not gonna get to scale if your pilot doesn't successfully get off the ground, and if you're not articulating success properly, bringing in all of your go-to-market stakeholders, aligning them on the metrics, aligning them on the program. You're not gonna have ABM in the in, in 12 months anyways. So first off, what are some of the things that you're seeing hearing in market with your clients, your prospects, and in general, around ABM pilot programs and why they are failing?

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

Yeah, this is one of my favorite things to talk about.'cause from what I've found is if you can nail these five things, like 80% of the way there to actually having a successful program. There's 20% that are weird nuances that are your market or your company or whatever. But typically. these five things are what caused most ABM programs to fail When we talk about failure, like 80% of ABM programs that failed since 2020. So just as a heads up, these are things that you should look out for. So, number one, is a lack of leadership buy-in. Number two would be a lack of sales and marketing alignment. Number three is targeting. Number four is a lack of dedicated resources. And then number five is, inability to measure success. So I'll break each one of down really quick of just, when we talk about leadership buy-in, typically what happens with an ABM program someone just says, we should do an ABM program, and they kind of throw it at somebody and then that's the extent of leadership's buy-in and check back in a few months later, six months later or the next day, and say, we're our leads. And it's like, well, I don't know. Like this is, I got no support. I got no help. and. You just kind of told me to do this thing. That was the, the example that I often give is marketing manager Suzy. So like, she's given the accountability to build an ABM program without the authority to foster organizational change. And because leadership wasn't bought in, she didn't get the support of the CMO and the CRO at a leadership level to talk about how things are gonna be different moving forward. So as a result, thing failed.'cause like nobody's actually bought in. So that's the first thing. We'll talk a lot about sales and marketing alignment, so I'll come back to that in a moment. Resourcing, just kind of gave the example of like one person is thrown ABM and I have a lovely relationship actually with the role of ABM manager because typically an ABM manager is expected to do revenue operations, content sales, training and enablement, presence and reporting, on top of just general project management. So if you give one person all of those roles and responsibilities. They really, really struggle because they don't get, like, they should just do the tactic that's ABM. versus recognizing, as you referenced earlier, like center of excellence. Like you don't have a center of excellence typically for tactics. You have centers of excellence typically because it's a foundational way in which we actually go to market around, our business. So lack of resourcing, really easy one measurement of success. if you think that leads is a measure of success in an a DM program, you are not likely going to end up being successful. we look for things like high quality account engagement that turns into opportunities that are multi-threaded deals that accelerate through the pipeline. So those are, that's different language. we often talk about in lead gen approaches, which is, did we get the form filled? Did we get the download success? Again, we're focused more on engaged. Do they enter the pipeline? Is that deal effectively reaching the entire decision committee? Do you have content that served to the right person at the right time? And how quickly is that deal progressing and at what deal value? And then what is our percentage win rate on these kinds of accounts? and then the last thing would just be targeting, which is like one of the mo most important things. I. Maybe that's a hot take, but, I actually hate that ABM is often used as an upmarket strategy because I don't think it's right. I think that ABM should be focused on getting more of your best customers. And if you've never worked upmarket, or you've never worked in the enterprise, you like various clearly am mid-market kind of account, and then you just wave your magic wand and say, oh yeah, our product is perfect for the enterprise, so we should go after the enterprise. Let's build Navy M Program to go after accounts that look nothing like a current customer base. It's gonna really struggle because you have no proof points and no evidence that you can serve those kinds of clients. So when I look at targeting I, the idea of really great targeting is go get more of your best customers. So if you just know who your best customer is, because you've got great product market fit, you just make a li look, a lookalike list that gets more of those kinds of customers. So final framing on targeting would just be ethical selling. So when I look at a target account list, I should look at everyone, one of those accounts and say, we could crush it for them their life is gonna be exponentially better because they partnered with us. And if you don't have that level of confidence that you'd actually be willing to say, I'll do this for commission. Like I, whatever the metric is where you say, you don't even have to pay me up front. I want the upside. Like think about that framing. If you don't have that level of confidence and conviction, you may not want to have'em on your target account list because they may not actually get the value. and you're gonna invest a ton of dollars that won't actually get that great of a return. So those were like four as a, at a.

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

Those were a great five, and I have so many questions around each of them. I think the first one that I want to address, because this is, we see a time in and timeout, it's around dedicated resources. So through some of our research earlier this year, we found that 56% of ABM programs actually have a designated resource or designated headcount to own the program. Do you find. That programs who have either brought on someone to run ABM externally, or maybe they hired internally, but they have that dedicated ABM role, are they more successful than those that do not? I.

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

So standard consulting answer here of it depends because it depends on do they then get additional support. So again, if they. Because there was a guy that I was talking to that was an ABM manager, but when they hired him, the expectation was he could run everything. So he can make content, he can run demand base, he can do all the revenue operations integration work within Salesforce. He can do this. Like if that's the expectation of the ABM manager than no, like they're actually more likely to fail because they put too much on one person that functionally cannot do all of those roles. Whereas if you have a dedicated person that owns the ABM program. And it's held accountable for results, but it's also given the support around execution, then you're exponentially more likely to be successful. So as I think about like what is the core team that is required for an ABM program? It's a strategist, it's a project manager, it's a content person. It's a rev ops manager, it's then channel owners. So think email, paid media, whatever your channel mix is. So that's. the thought process. So as I look at the role of the account, the ABM manager, ideally they actually fulfill the strategist role and the project manager role. And then they may have background and expertise in something else, like paid media or some form of, of operations or content. But again, if they're expected to do all of that, they're going to be set up for, for failure. So that's if, if the expectations of the role are. Set up as I just outlined, they're more likely to be successful if they're expected to own the full program, end to end with no additional support. They will not be successful.

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

A hundred per, it's almost like the, the role of an ABM lead is Swiss Army knife, where you need to have at least enough of an understanding around each of the different functions so that you can be the quarterback and lead them, but you can't actually be expected to execute on all of them, especially marketing ops. And this is something that. That we've seen so many times where it's, you know, okay, we wanna transition off of leads, or we're still running Serious decisions. Demand Waterfall, the 2006 version. And we're so focused on top of Funnel M qls, we wanna move towards more of a buying group centric or engagement centric, measurement and reporting architecture. But the ABM, the problem is that the ABM lead. Knows conceptually what metrics that they want, but they, when you have the either data analyst or the marketing ops, rev ops, whoever it is, when they try to build these dashboards and build the infrastructure, because it requires a different infrastructure than, than what you have for your M qls. The, the biggest disconnect is the ABM Lean isn't able to provide that roadmap. To the MarTech or the the Rev Ops leader around, yes, these are the metrics, but this is specifically how to get there. Have you seen that as well?

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

Yeah, all the time. I mean for, for quick context like. Any client that works with us gets a dedicated strategist, account manager, content writer, and rev ops manager. So like our Rev ops managers are constantly trying to explain to directors of demand Gen because like our rev ops managers understand the architecture,'cause they build it all the time. But like going to a director of demand gen or a marketing director that's historically run a lead gen model and trying to explain the differences or going to the marketing ops team at some of our clients and trying to explain the differences is where we often see that disconnect. So just as a. Quick. FII, we have gotten really deep into visualization tools, things like mural or lucid chart, that do a fantastic job of actually allowing people to lay out data flows between tools. and actually outline like these are the measures of success at different stages of an account progression So like laying out the strategy that is separate from the tech stack, but it's something that everyone can collaborate around.'cause what we have, what we often also see. Is people jump so quickly to building in the tech stack, and as a result, once they built in the tech stack, it ends up creating this, like I, I love a good workflow, but like really complex workflows and like HubSpot or Salesforce, they just get so large that they're actually really difficult to follow. And you have to ensure that the logic is accurate versus the nomenclature of like. So this is a target account that like we all agreed that we want it. Whereas if you're in Lucid, like you can just type in like here's a box, target account, clicks, ad gets added to list this, list triggers this other program. Are we all agreed and aligned on that? Great. So like having different tools to visualize it is also something we've seen as super helpful.'cause the, the final thought on this front is Davis, you and I just talked through a bunch of words and like. If you're not familiar with ABM, data architecture and like target account list, and there's a lot of language that you and I just worked through that, like I understand, you understand, but also you and I, as we think through those words, may have conjured up different images and features because the ways in which we build ABM programs may be slightly different. And as a result, we may walk away from this conversation saying, we're fully aligned, and then I'm gonna go build the thing and you're gonna look at the thing that I built and be like, this is not all what I was looking for. having the ability to visualize strategy and data architecture and whatever you need to visualize so that people can actually look at the same image and be like, oh, that's not right. This is like, has been, I think one of the most helpful things that we've actually enabled many of our clients to do for their own internal teams. shifted their conversations to be more focused on what are we actually trying to accomplish and build talking through it in a series of meetings and then everybody leaving thinking they're on the same page. And then after the meeting they realize after it's all built, like we were not on the same page.

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

Couldn't agree more, and I, it's so true. When. You, you'll go into these conversations and then the actual architecture is pretty robust. It's like data literacy is one area that if you are an ABM manager, again, your your role, yes, you'd need to deeply understand the strategy, but. Go take some, some courses on data literacy. So when you go into those conversations, you will be two steps ahead of everyone. If you're having a, a actual data informed conversation with rev ops, where it's, Hey, these are the different fields in Salesforce that I wanna, or in my CRM that I wanna structure, this is the workflow. I want it to go from here. Into Snowflake. These are the different tables that we're trying to create, and then we're gonna push it out into our Tableau or Power bi, whatever we're using for our visualization tool. Oh, and by the way, on that actual visualization dashboard, this is what it should look like. And that in and of itself talk. Talk about a disconnect. You have all these different dashboards that are Frankenstein together. Some people will go out. they don't want to deal with the homegrown piece and they'll buy, you know, a six figure ABM platform, not even be able to properly configure that. and then it sits on the shelf. They're maybe just using it for ads or whatnot for the first six months. Then they churn after they're a year long contract, 24 month contract, whatever it is, is set up and, even on the ABM platform side, what are you seeing and is this a failure point as well? You mentioned technology being a piece of this whole conception of, you know, ABM pilot where it's, some teams will go out, they'll buy it and think they're automatically doing ABM if they have the tech. w what, what are your thoughts around that?

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

So I actually don't think that technology is one of the top five reasons an ABM program fails. And the data would also suggest that it's typically not technology. it is, is it always comes down to people and processes. So when I think about technology is often, often framed as a point of failure and why ABM didn't work is they purchased a solution that was a piece of technology that they then expected to just do ABM. And again, if we go back to that ABM manager, oftentimes an ABM manager, their whole job is just to manage an ABM platform. That is completely disconnected from a larger strategy. and again, even the framing of ABM tactic, like when people come to us and they're like, yeah, we want to implement the tactic of ABM, it's like, you're not a good fit customer'cause you don't understand what we're actually going to do, which is how you report and like go to market. though I don't think technology is the reason an ABM program fails, I think it does add additional complexities and pressure. That accelerates why ABM programs fail. Because if you look at, what often happens is they'll hire somebody, they'll do a series of internal meetings, and those meetings are very expensive because you get really senior leadership and a bunch of people on a call. Those meetings end up typically being a waste of time into which they say, great, let's go buy a platform that had an additional six figures of pressure. And then we try to run the program thinking, well, if we can just get target account engagement before we get sales involved, that'll solve the problem. So I, I don't think it's the reason it fails. I think it's a compounding, impact that accelerates failure because we didn't have right people in processes and we weren't aligned at leadership, at a leadership level through our targeting and with sales.

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

Okay. You mentioned a couple things there. First, completely agree where it's strategy first and then tech second. All around the board. And then the second piece was, this is a go to market strategy. You can call it ABM, call it a BX, call it account based go to market. That's what we prefer. The reason why we push account based GTM is because it's a go-to market strategy, your sales teams are already account based. They prioritize and structure their talent, their targeting, which is one of your pieces. but. When thinking about this as that go to market strategy, the targeting aspect where it's okay, maybe we have these six different industries or these six different segments that we can pursue and no data. No conversation with sales. Maybe we have a little bit more content for this one segment. Let's go all in with our ABM program on that. Let's, let's not do any type of qualitative, quantitative analysis behind it, and we'll just push all of our resources, bring on dedicated headcount. We'll, we'll make a significant investment. In this one segment, in this role, in this program, without actually really going in and being strategic behind the segment that you chose or the targeting that you chose, how, how are you seeing organizations almost think about that targeting piece so that they're set up for success with their first pilot?

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

So this typically comes out in three flavors. So flavor one is executive leadership led. And depending on the kind of organization that you're a part of, this might actually be board led. And the board wants a specific series of logos on the website. they say, this is who we're going after, then CEO's like, got it. So then the CEO goes to the team is like, we've gotta get Apple. I know we're SMB, but we've gotta go get Apple. So like, let's do ABM. And I, I say this as an exaggeration, but also. I, I use Apple as the reference'cause everybody knows Apple. But also there are companies that we have worked with in which they were given the mandate to go get the billion dollar company, and they primarily do work at like the$20 million range. I mean, it's, just unrealistic, because it's, it's not actually strategic in nature. It's, we made promises to investors in our board that we could get specific companies and now we have to do it or. We're going to fail as a business. Like that's one flavor. Another flavor is what you referenced, which is just marketing led exclusively with no buy-in, or vice versa. It's sales led exclusively, where sales is like, this is our wishlist. Go get them. And I don't think that any of those are the correct way. when I actually really love doing now, and this comes from, I wanna be super clear. I didn't know this as a marketer. I've now been a business owner for two years. And my perspective on best customer has shifted dramatically. because whenever a customer's unhappy, to me. and like I can hear all the reasons they're unhappy and it's because they weren't a right fit and it, versus those customers that I, those gonna sound really bad, customers that I don't really hear from that often. But like I reach out like once a month and I'm like, Hey, how are things? And they're like, great. And like we get the NPS result back and they've been a ten four month running of their five month engagement. Like those are the things that I now look at and I'm like, do I go get more of those? Because they stick around for a really long time. They're super happy. They were four. They refer more business our way and like our team likes working with them. And they may not be the highest upfront dollar amount sometimes. our longest standing client started as a one time$5,000 agreement.

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

Wow.

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

They have now paid us half a million dollars in two and a half years now. I wanna be super clear, we do a ton of work for them, so like they're an outlier, but I used to think they're our outlier and now I'm starting to think now like there's something that we actually can do for them and there are more people like them. So like, how do I go get more of those? So it's. Looking at finance data and actually looking at like lifetime value. So people say ABM is expensive and they're correct, but it's looking at to CAC ratio versus just purely cac, which is where I think marketing and sales gets it wrong'cause they only typically are a part of the CAC component. Whereas if you talk to product and finance and cs, you actually get the whole like real starting line, which is like when the deal closes. That's like what is a best customer? so I actually like to start with finance, then look at product, see product utilization and like NPS results, and then talk to cs, sorry. And CS provides, NPS results. and then just like overall satisfaction and then also like expansion and, and retention revenue. and then I go talk to sales. And this is a really quick tip as you're looking at your deal pipeline, is just look at the deals that have multiple contacts associated.'cause likely means is that they had a really significant pain and they largely probably self multithreaded or their pain was so significant that when sales went to Multithread, that the people that were, that responded to sales wanted to be involved in the deal. So looking at those things, and then when you've compiled all of that data and information, you can then look at it and say, okay, this is what I think is our ICP. go see the valid market size for this. And then you actually have a really clear view of your best customer. I actually like to go that way, which is, we refer to it as a current customer profile. It's like, who are your current customers? And then I I, I do wanna be clear, there will always be pressure to move up market and that's fine. But don't go from like 20 million to like billion dollar company. I think of it as an overlaps. So like, okay. This account or these kinds of accounts are squarely in our iic or are squarely in our current customer profile. as a business in the next two years want to shift our ICP to be more reflective of this. So the ideal state would be instead of like 10 to$20 million companies, we work with 25 to$50 million companies that is moving up market. Great. What's the overlap there? All right. Well maybe for the time we focus on the 15 to$30 million range. our ABM program, and then we start to over time, move up market versus we're at 10 million right now. Let's jump to 50 with our ABM program. So at the intersection of the ICP and the CCP is what is referred to as the TCP, is the target customer profile. that's a bunch of jargon and acronyms. In short, who are your best customers? Go get more of those. If you do that long enough, you'll have really happy, longstanding customers that pay you a lot of money and are highly profitable. If that is the goal of an ABM program, in my mind.

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

So you're telling me don't just go out and find a complete wishlist of accounts that you would love to have their logo for, who are completely net new, have never bought for you. Probably don't even know who you are. Not involving sales, not involving any other cross-functional teams, and just pushing ads, pushing a shit ton of money into different disjointed tactics. Don't, don't do that.

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

highly recommend you don't. I'll give you one final example. So I have closed Maersk. is a$65 billion company. When I closed Maersk, it was supposed to be a three month project. It took 12 and it was a project so we didn't make more money. We spent nine months because we really wanted the logo of Maersk. can almost guarantee we lost so much money that deal because of the amount of time that we invested as a business. But I, as the seller, can forever say I closed Maersk, but probably wasn't profitable. yes, your sales team might be bought in on really, really cool logos, but it's finance.

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

That's a great example. And when it comes to getting sales bought in on this targeting, or even the process in general, making sure that they're involved, what does that look like? I.

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

short answer, getting sales leadership bought in and then a pilot program with one to three sellers, we have worked with clients that were like, no, we've gotta do the full rollout to all the sales, and it has not gone well a single time. when you get 15 sellers into a room, many of whom, especially if you're in the enterprise space, they've been in seat for 20 years to go to them and say, hi, I know I'm a marketer, but I'm gonna tell you how to sell now. not gonna go well. Like, it just, I've never seen it go well. Whereas if you start with a small pilot program and you go to those people individually and say, Hey, I actually wanna provide more support to you specifically. For like the next six months, because we're gonna test something out. I, I, I, if you're willing to work with me, we have seen from market data is that typically there's a 70% increase in pipeline volume, 70% increase in pipeline acceleration, like a 70% increase in sales, team satisfaction, ballpark, however, 77, look up the data, you can find it. But long and short, it's ballpark. 70 to 80% across the board done well, we've never done this. This may not go well. But we wanna try it because we think it actually fundamentally changed the business. And if done well, make you a lot more money. Are you willing to take the bet with you for the next six months? And some people will say no, is awesome because you just save six months of banging your head up against a wall. But a couple people will say yes, which point you have a small pilot program where you get them so much money through commission checks then everybody else is ticked. They're like, well, why wasn't I asked? At which point you now have demand? So fulfilling the demand. Don't try to go fulfill demand that doesn't exist. So first, it small, it with a couple of reps, turn those reps into internal case studies, make them all good President's Club, and then every other rep won Buyin on your program actually go with that. Fun, fun. Other fact. If you look at I-T-S-M-A. They had data at one point that was like the number two reason avian programs fail was a lack of sales buy-in. The number four reason was keeping up with sales demands. So once you've actually gotten them bought in, you have a different set of problems, which is meaning keeping up with how much they want your support.

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

That's a great stat. And Mason, but before we wrap this up, you mentioned one thing that I really wanna make sure we get your thoughts on, which is one of your core five pieces as to why ABM pilot programs fail was success metrics you mentioned. Transitioning off of MQL or leads and thinking about decision committees. Another thing you mentioned was how some of the accounts that have several contacts already in the CRM might be an interesting signal to think about when you're building your targeting. How, and what are your thoughts around actually operationalizing these decision committees or some other people in the market call them buying groups? how do you effectively do that?

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

So first thing. Is once you've actually made the target account list, ideally again, this target account list should look somewhat similar, like a subset of your current customers. looking at those current customers and identifying, okay, who was involved in those decision committees. Like the example I always like to give is it's not necessarily who was on the call. So like I've now had upwards, I think 350 sales conversations at this point in the past two years. of the 350, Every single one of them, CFO or the board was involved. have spoken to three CFOs, so like I often don't get access to the full decision committee, but they're still involved. So working through who shows up from a title perspective on these meetings and who do they say they need to go get approval from, and then also looking at people that may not need approval but end up being blockers. Like for me, it's legal in it. I ask for system admin access to the CRM as an agency and it hates me. Like, in order to do the job, like if you want me to build a program, I need access to build workflows. It's like tough if I can't build a workflow. so like I just know that on the front end, so like we've updated our legal language to reflect, I screw up, I'm literally outta business.'cause like their, their ability to sue me is insane. But I'm really confident in our team's abilities to like good work and not create a data breach. So like, we're good. and that like. That's how I address the IT stuff. I literally go to it and I'm like, Sue me. am more incentivized for you to, to not have a data breach than you are.'cause I, I'm a like a bootstrap business. If I screw this up, I'm so, like,

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

Yeah.

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

I promise we're gonna, we're gonna treat you right. and like kind of it's worked every time like I'm being honest. so just identifying those blockers. I've never spoken to it. I've never spoken to legal directly on a call. I've done a lot of emails. I've spoken to three CFOs. Those three people or committees always show up.

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

Yep.

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

and I talk a lot to marketing. I talk a lot to sales, and then sometimes I talk to the CEO. So that's how you think through it. It's just like

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

Yep.

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

who shows up?

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

Well, awesome. Thank you so much for joining us Mason. This was great. And, where can people go find you to, to hear more and learn more about scrappy?

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

if you Google scrappy ABM, we own the term. so like we're everywhere. there's a podcast, there's a newsletter, there's a website, there's a LinkedIn company page. So like Google those things. And then, if you would like to learn more about me personally, which I don't know why you would, but if you would like to. Mason Cosby, no r I'm not the Green Bay Packer's former kicker. If I was, I'd be more rich, more famous, and more healthy. but last I just run an ABM agency. So those are the two places. Scrappy, ABM, Mesa Cosby.

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

Check out their podcast They have a great one. Well, thank you Mason. Appreciate you joining us today and looking forward to, to our part two.

mason-cosby_1_06-16-2025_154342:

Heck yeah, that

squadcaster-45cd_1_06-16-2025_144342:

Hell yeah.