Barbara, Sari, and Jennifer

Anne Bercht interviews 3 very different women, with very different stories of marital betrayal. How they have not only survived their husband's affair/s, but are learning to thrive on the other side.

Yes, you can move beyond the pain and get the life you want.
www.beyondaffairs.com 360.306.3367

Transcript

[00:00:00] Barbara. Hi, Barbara. Good evening, and I'm going to just introduce this call. I am , Co founder of the, and creator of the Take Your Life Back program, which is for the trade women, and uh, it deals with the personal part of healing. I always say that, , in the event that it does work out for you, and it is your choice to reconcile your relationship, um, there's still a lot of work to be done.

Two healings that take place. One of them is the healing of the the relationship, , and the other is the healing of your broken heart. This is Sari . Hi, Sari. Welcome. Glad to have you. Thank you. Good morning. , I'm just giving a bit of an introduction for, , those that might, will be listening in later, 

so talking about the Take Your Life Back program, it's for the personal part of healing, healing of your broken heart. And um, At the Take Your Life Back program, we have usually about half and half, both women who are [00:01:00] divorcing their husbands and women who are restoring their relationships, and we usually have quite a number that come to Take Your Life Back that are, um, just devastated as it is, and they don't know what to do.

What, um, they're going to do about their lives yet. Um, so Take Your Life Back is about that personal part of the healing. And um, in today's call, we are going to be talking to, I believe, four different women who have been through the Take Your Life Back program somewhere in the last year. And all of them have different, uh, stories.

And , they have so generously, , offered to share and allow me to interview them a little bit and find out what's going on with them. So I'm looking forward to that sharing , and ladies, as you share, , and I know sometimes you can feel a little bit nervous, but I want you just to relax and, , just, , share whatever comes to your heart , as we go through.

, when I think about, , The broken [00:02:00] hearts and the devastation and the confusion and the chaos that goes on after and just the uncertainty, , and just how undeserved, , this is.

I am excited for this opportunity to hopefully give lots of help to everyone listening. So, um, Barbara, is it okay if I start with you? Sure. Okay. So, why don't you just share a little bit about your background and your situation. Maybe how long you were married and when you found out , and how you navigated , those first days after disclosure.

Sure. So, hello everyone. Um. Barbara and, um, here to help because I know this is a difficult time and, and, you know, it's a journey through the process and still going through it, but starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, which is nice. Um, unfortunately, I have been married twice. My first husband had an affair as well.

Um, I gave him a second chance. [00:03:00] And he had another one, or actually he was talking with the woman again, and I ended our marriage. Uh, quickly met my second husband, whom I thought, you know, was going to be the love of my life for the rest of my life. Um, and we were married, um, six and a half years. Um, our D Day, uh, this time was January 1st of this year, so New Year's morning about 4 a.

m. Um, but he did have an affair three years ago as well, , yeah, he had an affair. I had confronted him immediately. Um, I knew it was happening, but could not prove it until finally I was able to get his phone. Confronted him one morning, February 10th of that year. Um, Threw him out of the house, um, for five weeks.

Uh, we worked, we talked about getting back together during that period. Um, he was very open to communicating and talking. Um, however, during that five week period, there were questionable moments. Um, [00:04:00] but I was pushing them to the side because I wanted it so badly. 

 Sunday I just talked about this with a friend the other night. I never disclosed this to anyone, but I had been in his , LinkedIn account looking at the affair partner and his, uh, communications, and then saw that he had asked someone else to go out to, to, uh, for drinks one night, uh, while we were separated, um, and he was asking to come home as well.

And then he quickly apologized to the woman and said that was very unprofessional. Um, but I let, I did bring it up in our therapy, but it never went anywhere. And it was kind of like, let it go. And, you know, there's these moments that you look back and go, Hmm, you know, I should have trusted myself there.

Um, I knew there was a lot going on in our situation, um, but I wanted to believe in the good of him because I felt, you know, that he was the one for me, um, but, you know, I was just thinking about us. [00:05:00] Right. Um, so we did reconcile, and He did come back home. So for three years, um, it was difficult. Uh, we did have those conversations that things needed to be transparent.

There were times when I would ask to see his phone if there was something uncomfortable, some, a feeling that I would get. And, um, he would refuse and I would say the agreement was transparency. But I didn't hold to my boundaries either. So I feel that, you know, I just wanted it to be okay, so I then just, we would argue and he would either leave or get mad and the conversation would just end.

But I honestly didn't think, I can't say I didn't think, but I, I had hoped that we had learned a big lesson from the first time for the both of us to, to move forward. And I wanted Now, , you mentioned therapy back then. , was , that the main avenue that you chose for reconciliation or [00:06:00] like what?

You know, what would you say was, yeah. So, we, we were in therapy prior to this happening. So, we were in therapy for quite some time before because I just always felt he had a restless spirit and he wanted to be married, but yet he was always, Like, half in, half out, if I could say it that way. I can't explain it, but restless is what I would say.

Like, being home and just having dinner on a Sunday at home and just hanging out, just always just felt uncomfortable. Just, he always wanted to be out, going, doing. Um. And just different things when the guys wanted to go out, it was like, God forbid he missed an opportunity, you know, and just things that at a 40 something year old man, like at some point you would hope that it wasn't so important anymore.

He didn't go out a lot, but when he did, it was very uncomfortable because there was no trust, you know, the trust was lacking just from previous times. Notions that I had had prior to us, so these little [00:07:00] signs, these red flags that I just kind of kept putting to the side, which is why we were in therapy, um, prior to the, the affair.

Okay. But anyways, it seemed like you were reconciled, and then bring us up to speed on this recent one that you've dealt with this year. And what happened there? Yeah. So, um, I had a feeling something was going on with someone he worked with. Um, again, I have pretty good intuition, so I was on top of it, but I couldn't prove anything.

And finally, New Year's evening, we came home from a friend's party. Um, we all had a lot to, you know, a lot to drink. It was New Year's. Um, I was able to get his phone because he was sleeping soundly. And as I opened the phone, honestly, all I saw was, I love you more. And some emojis like, you know, that he was actually sending to me at the same time.

So, um, that evening. So, it was, um, I literally just Came out of the room I was in and just [00:08:00] started screaming get out of this house, like it was not a good morning, obviously, um, and I, he left and he called me after he left and said, you're crazy. I was like, no, I'm not. And, you know, and then that was it. He never slept home again.

Um, and since then, so we did, um, We didn't talk for a bit in January. January, February, it's just been such a crazy year. Like, the first part of this year is so dark for me. It was those dark, dark days that are so hard to imagine how your life is going to move forward. Um, and we talked a bit, but he was never at the place where he was the first time where he wanted to talk.

Like, I didn't have an avenue to even We would go out to dinner and To try to talk, but he wouldn't want to talk about the situation. He wanted to just talk about general stuff, and then at some point, maybe three, four times after we go out, then we could talk about us. [00:09:00] And after a while that wasn't working for me because I needed to talk about the pink elephant.

Right. Um, in June, I would say things really started to fall quickly apart and he was still with his affair partner, but telling me he wasn't, but still not living home. Very odd separation situation. Um, we would speak, mainly text, once in a while get together, but it was really difficult.

That, like, we were really now separating more and more, um, and then, um, I just kept hearing stories. I confronted his affair partner and him and just, you know, um, I needed to say some things that I needed to say, but still never really got the story. And then finally, which is hard, hard to accept. Yes, it is harder to heal when you don't know the full story.

So [00:10:00] is that, is your marriage now heading towards divorce, would you say? Yes. Okay. We started the mediation process. Okay. And, um, so, when you think back, um, and when was it that you came to the Take Your Life Back weekend? So, I came to Take Your Life Back in April .

Okay. All right. And it was um, I had gone to a band meeting and found out about it and within a week I booked my trip to Take Your Life Back. Awesome. And so how, how did the Take Your Life Back seminar impact your life? Wow. Um, I think about it, I get the goosebumps. Um, I remember being really nervous because you didn't know what to expect, uh, walking into a room, going in with such, you're so vulnerable.

And so, you know, everyone's dealing with it, but you just don't know how they're dealing with it. And, um, I can remember that first morning just kind of sitting there and [00:11:00] just being overwhelmed. Um, I was so confused at the time. I was lost. Everything was about him. Everything. Not one, every move I made in life was what if he comes back and when he comes back and talking to him prior to going about when I get back, you know, hopefully we'll be working on our marriage.

I'll find me kind of for you. You know, it was, it was very much circled around him. So then, Over the weekend, just bonding with these, with women that were going through the pain and, and feeling their pain and your pain, but, but healing yourself, and I think that's, when I left there, I smiled for two weeks, like, I didn't cry for two weeks, and for me, that was huge, huge, because I had cried every day for months at some point or another, but I felt the fog lift more than it had prior.

Um, And it [00:12:00] started to make me realize, I have to be okay for me, and it was not all about making myself okay for him and I, it was making myself okay for me, and then just the network of women that you talk with and we're still friends with today, um, is just amazing, like it really is just one of those things that if I didn't go, I, you know, Would have hate to have missed it because I have made friends for life, um, that understand me and this process because not all of our friends and family can understand what we're going through.

Right. And it is an amazing safety because the women come from cities all across the United States, Canada every now and then we have somebody from overseas and, um, And so there's kind of a safety in it because they're not in your normal network and like you say, I think everybody does walk into the room feeling a little bit vulnerable and that would be, um, normal, but we [00:13:00] immediately create that atmosphere of safety and everybody gets it.

Because everybody's in that same place and with technology today, it is so wonderful how people can stay in touch. And I do, um, experience, you know, feedback that I get is sometimes I believe that friendships are made for a lifetime and the support and the freedom of being able to, to talk with others that get it in addition to the tools that are there.

So, so glad that was your, um, experience. And I, I feel like I'm rushing a little bit because I don't know if I'm going to have, I know there were four women that I wanted to share and I want to kind of try to give a little bit equal time, but, um, I'm not sure if they'll all be here or not. But when thinking back and wanting to help others who are, as we might say, eating the dust behind you, um, are there any mistakes that you feel like you made maybe in the first time or in the second time?

Like if you had something to do differently what [00:14:00] Is there anything along those lines? Yeah, I would trust myself. Um, allow myself to speak up. Um, because I held back on saying things to him and really confronting him. I didn't hold back on confronting him, but it was more about holding back on my boundaries and really saying, if you do this, this will happen.

The consequence is this. Um, I just wanted to hold on to him. And I didn't want it to go away, and I didn't give myself, I didn't allow that, I, the, the boundaries, I, I just kind of kept letting him make decisions and choices. And I wish I would have held to my boundaries more because I knew I was strong enough to get through it, I was just so full of fear.

And I just wish I would have changed that because I know that I have that [00:15:00] strength. The fear was just so much greater at that time. Yeah, I think those are really great words, um, Barbara. And I, you know, the message that I would want to give to women out there is to know that when it comes to an affair in the marriage, some marriages can be saved and some can't.

Some, you know, one thing I've learned is that, you know, You know, I've started to say, because my husband's name is Brian, and we were able to reconcile our marriage, but not every unfaithful spouse is a Brian. And not every marriage is one that is, you know, good to stay in because, , some unfaithful spouses just aren't willing to change and become the man that you need them to be.

And, uh, so, and I think that what you talk about, um, being able to, Push through the fear and have a voice is so important. And you know, the marriages, even in your case, wasn't reconciled, but the ones that are, [00:16:00] it's not through being a pushover and compromising and giving in to things that really don't feel right to you.

That's, that's not what wins you back a marriage. If it were to be that way, it's through standing up for yourself. And when it doesn't, right. You know, work out, then you know that you have respected yourself in that. But there is a fear, a real fear. It's scary to lose a relationship. I think that is one of the, um, and you can speak to this and the others can, is one of the big things that people come out with out of, um, Take Your Life Back is that, I'm going to call it a skill, to be able to push through your fear.

Like, feel the fear and do it anyways because you know it's the right thing to do for you. Yeah, absolutely. I think you get the tools there to, um, to really hone in on that, to push through the fear. Because you will be okay. You will. You're not going to stay there [00:17:00] forever. And you see the light at the end of the tunnel.

When I saw, I saw the light at the end of the tunnel at Take Your Life Back. Because it wasn't dark anymore. There were moments of light and you could see there could be happiness again. Um, I remember saying, eating lunch with everyone, saying, Oh my God, we're all eating. And I know that sounds so silly, but I didn't eat for months, like I would eat here and there just because I was so depressed and a lot of people had a similar situation but it was like we were, we were now like, we were now full, like we were now able to eat and be healthy and, and just, it wasn't the worry anymore.

I can't explain it but I remember saying, I ate my whole lunch, like I was just, I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's just, it, to me it was a moment of like, we're all okay, we're all eating, like, such a simple thing, but it's, it was a huge thing for me. I always love it [00:18:00] because, you know, in, um, our work since we've been running these seminars since 2005 and they're, they're three day intensives and, and everybody comes in with such sadness and such heaviness and, um, You know, you, you can just see it.

It's like almost as if they're walking in in a cloud and by the time they leave on the third day, there's joy on their faces and the transformation is unbelievable for us as facilitators and as a team, you know, my volunteer team of coaches when we see that. And so we have a saying, you know, In our household, and you know, and amongst our team, and the saying is, Sunday's coming, because you know, most of the seminars are Friday, Saturday, Sunday, so Sunday's day three.

Sometimes they run, you know, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Monday's day three, but Sunday's coming. Day three is coming. And so when we see that. And I think that's the same for me when people sometimes say to me, Anne, [00:19:00] how can you possibly do this work? It must be so hard to deal with such brokenhearted people and such despair.

And the first time someone said that to me, I thought, Oh, you know, maybe I have issues like I, cause I love my work. And then I realized I love it not because of the sadness that I see on day one, but because I know that I can take people to that day. day three place and, you know, that belief in yourself again and being able to push through your fear and being able to value yourself again and be able to have some tools and perspective of how you, you navigate, um, and moving forward.

So, um, I'll put one last question to you, Barbara, um, if you, what advice would you give to another woman who just found out that her husband has been unfaithful? What would you say to her? Oh, I get upset just because I know that feeling. Um, give yourself, take a deep breath, take one really [00:20:00] good deep breath and trust that the pain and it's horrible, dark, horrible pain, it's going to be gone at some point, whether you reconcile or not, but you will feel yourself again.

You will feel light again and just Allow yourself the time to get there. Don't punish yourself for not getting there quick enough, or as quickly as your friends or family are telling you you should be at. Allow yourself the time to go through it, because in the end, you will smile again, and you will find happiness again, and you will feel light again.

So take tons of deep breaths, but that first one is important to kind of regroup, and um, And just push through the journey. You'll get there. Yeah. So true. So true. Great words, Barbara. And, you know, there is hope on the other side and you can get through it. I think [00:21:00] even back to my own self, when I was going through this journey and, um, felt so, like I was in a cloud of darkness and I couldn't imagine that it would ever be.

to know another day of happiness again. And yet, on the other side of it, it did take me, you know, two and a half years to get through it. And it can take longer. It can take less. Like, I think that's such a good, um, word of advice that you're giving people is don't, don't Don't compare yourself and don't try to put time limits and certainly don't punish yourself or, you know, criticize yourself and say, I'm not doing it well enough.

The main thing is that you're, you're moving forward and you're reaching out for help and you're learning about the situation, um, but you can have amazing joy on, on the other side. So just lean into the pain, um, and there's lots of hope. Um, good words, Barbara. So, thank you for sharing, .

Alright, so, um, great. I will [00:22:00] go to you, Sari. So, um, give us a little bit of background on your situation. Okay, well, um, I have been married for 32 and a half years, but together with my husband a lot longer, because we actually lived on the same floor freshman year of college, so I've known him since September of 76.

It's a long time. Um, and, um, A very long time, yeah. So I found out, um, October 10th of last year, so it's, it's almost my D Day, if you want to call it that. And basically what happened was, is that I had a health scare, which ended up to be absolutely fine, but my doctor said, you need to question your husband about, You know, his sexual activities of the past and this and that, so I, I laughed at her, of course, and we were down in our little beach house, and to make a long story short, [00:23:00] I eventually pulled the truth out of him, which is that, um, he had slept with a woman one night that he had claimed had always been his friend.

And this woman worked for him for about six years. Um. She was very flirtatious, she had gotten divorced, and she built up his, um, ego, which was sorely lacking for a lot of different reasons. You know, we come into this situation with a lot of baggage, um, childhood baggage and such, that, I had recognized him myself, but my husband had not really recognized.

So, um, he had a one night stand with her basically after years of flirtation when she was diagnosed with terminal breast cancer, or we thought was terminal breast cancer. Uh, I just thought he was going in for a [00:24:00] glass of wine with her because she'd gotten this horrific news. The next day he said, um, Obviously felt guilty, never told me a thing, and by the way, I never ever met this woman ever.

Um, but he called her, I guess, when I was out to work and said, I cannot continue the physical with you, but I will help you in every other way, which was the biggest mistake ever. Because he proceeded, um, from that day, he slept with her , so it's quite a long time ago. The next day he proceeded to help her over the years with doctor's appointments, some dinners.

He took her to a wedding once, to a favorite restaurant of ours near our beach house, which is where he gave me the news, by the way, um, and, um, through her death, , and I actually went to the funeral just to give him support where along with her brother, he delivered a beautiful eulogy to her at St.

Patrick's Cathedral in New [00:25:00] York City, which is a very iconic church, and if you're Catholic or just interested in religion, you'll know about that beautiful church, and just proceeded to stay involved with her family over the years. I was very, you know, in a very mild way, in a, in not a significant way, but stayed involved until the truth came out.

And I immediately said, well, this woman, once I found out the news, what am I going to do? Yell at you from back then and yell at a ghost who's been dead for more than four years. So I insisted that he speak to her mother and brother and closest friend and say, I cannot have any contact with you anymore and this is why and I insisted that he tell them the truth about their relationship and that it wasn't really just a friendship.

Uh, and I did that because he denied me the voice and the choice back when it happened. He decided that he wanted to stay in our marriage, yet he [00:26:00] didn't involve me in any way, shape or form, which is part of the reason why I became so terribly resentful, uh, towards him because I think had I had sort of a part of this whole awful process, it would have empowered me to say, okay, it's her or me, that type of thing, but I never even had that opportunity and found out the truth, you know, years after her death.

So that's been a very difficult thing for me to deal with. Um, so my initial reaction, of course, was pure shock because I trusted him one, I'm a very loyal, trusting person by nature. And, um, you know, he claimed that as our marriage was getting better, because we were trying to work on it on our own. Uh, he felt guiltier and guiltier, and he claims he would have told me someday, but I don't know if that's really true.

We have no way of knowing. Um, and his attitude was, of course, [00:27:00] shock and fear that I would leave him, because he very much wants to stay in the marriage, and, um, admits to have just been very fearful and cowardly, and knows that he should have told me way back in the day, no less done any of this, but it is what it is.

You know, and, um, that's just the way it is. So, where are we, where are we at in healing now? I'm just trying to be succinct. Um, you know, he very much wants to reconcile. Um, and I am trying. And I have mixed feelings about it, but I'm making the efforts because we have two beautiful grown sons. One of who's engagement party is tomorrow, um, so we have a lot to be joyful about.

And I think sometimes you have to be willing to see the joy in life and not just the pain. That's very [00:28:00] important to just keep yourself going as an individual. Um, so. True. I think it's very important to try to be positive about whatever you can be. And, um, so in terms of healing now, I think that we're both trying, but of course it's a very, um, difficult, um, Arduous step, and I do think that, uh, the steps that we took to heal our marriage was, well, first of all, of course, I went to Take Your Life Back, which was the most phenomenal experience of my life, and, um, We both went to, uh, Healing from Affairs, HFA, recently , uh, which was also magnificent, and I would love someday, if he's ever able to go to the Man of Honor, because I believe he would get a lot out of that as well.

Um, so, All of that is working because from [00:29:00] my own personal experience at Take Your Life Back as well as Healing from Affairs, we were giving, we were given some tools to work with and some of which we've implemented quite well and some of which we've both been quite busy and, and there's been a lack of time, but we, we need to work on that.

Um, it's sort of an ongoing process, quite frankly. So, yeah. But mistakes that I made, yeah, I'm just trying to think about, um, the questions. And the mistakes that I made, I would say, is to let my anger get the best of me. You know, it's okay to be hurt. Angry, resentful, and so much more, because I really believe, Ann, that you can't really control your thoughts or emotions, however, you can control your behavior, if you work on [00:30:00] it.

So true. And, um, that's tough for me, because even though I'm, I'm seemingly very quiet, I am like a little snarky, little freak. Fire when I need to be and but what I learned is I can get a lot more out of my husband in all respects when I'm calm and I'm respectful. Otherwise, I scare him off. I really do.

So, um, My biggest mistake has been just to allow bad behavior via anger because anger is not your first emotion. It's usually a secondary response to your hurt, your pain, your fear, all of that. At times, I've let that get the best of me. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's really good advice for women, too, is to just recognize that.

Because anger is, um, a [00:31:00] very, I mean, it's almost a, it's actually a positive emotion given to us for healing. It's a normal response to an injustice. And what bigger injustice than your spouse stepping outside of the marriage. But, yes, never, you know, as the saying goes, hurt. people hurt people. And so no, um, more time are we more likely to do the wrong thing than when we're deeply hurt.

And so our anger, as you say, our, our emotions impair our judgment. In fact, in fact, I think it's great what you're saying about, um, we can't necessarily control our emotions, but we can control, um, Our behavior. And as somebody who studies, you know, human behavior and psychology and, um, you know, how to reconcile relationships and all of these things, um, I myself know, generally speaking, the right things to do, the right ways to say things when dealing with things, but I'm also a human being and I, I get to [00:32:00] experience my emotions and that's what I've noticed.

You know, sometimes I say, this stuff is easy, except for our emotions. Okay. And that's what makes it difficult, but, you know, it, it's not an excuse and that you're right that one of the things that I experience in working with so many is that it's not the affair, um, the infidelity itself that does the biggest.

Damage to a relationship, and I don't say that lightly because it does a huge amount of damage. But for many couples, it's all the mistakes they make after disclosure. And one of them are the betrayed spouses. In our anger, we can say and do things that Cause even more damage and we say to ourselves, yeah, but he hurt me so much, but you can't hurt your way to healing.

And you know, so that's, um, it's just good to be aware of it. You can't find a healthy outlet for your anger. Yeah. [00:33:00] So I also just want to say in terms of the take your life back experience, for me it was, um, truly life changing. And I mean that sincerely, uh, because. My expectations were just to simply find a group of kindred spirits who could understand and relate to my plight, basically, because although our situations were all different, some were divorcing, some were separated, some were inseparable.

Very much working on the reconciliation of their marriages. Many were unsure, but very quickly the walls were broken down. And we walked in day one with a lot of trepidation, but by the end we were just very, um, you know, in simponico. And we just [00:34:00] Like I've never clicked with a group of women. And, uh, my lovely roommate from Take Your Life Back, uh, is really Has become one of my dearest friends and we often joke and say Ryan may have technically put us together But we truly believe that it was God's work that put us together.

I believe and I really believe that. I just found that amazing experience at Take Your Life Back because, um, we were just very different women, but we just all learned to. There was just total acceptance, quite frankly. That's all I have to say. It was just a phenomenal situation.

And, um, the exercises were very relevant and helpful and interesting and diverse, and I'm not going to obviously talk about them because I want everyone to go and [00:35:00] be surprised, but you will never experience anything like that in your life if you go. Um, and what I also learned, From the other women there is quite honestly, you never know how strong you are until you have no other choice.

And we just sort of, uh, bounced off one another and learned that we would all be okay. As Barb said, um, Any advice that I would give to another woman who just found out her husband has been unfaithful? First and foremost, I would say give yourself grace, because you, you know, this is a terrible shock, obviously, whether you're a man or a woman who finds out that his or her spouse has been unfaithful.

It's probably, you know, it's really like a death. It's the death of your faithful marriage, and grieving is natural. And, and [00:36:00] certainly understandable, but I would also say to please don't allow yourself to be isolated, get help, because I believe there's no worse feeling than being alone when surrounded by others who simply don't get it, perhaps because it didn't happen to them or for whatever the reason.

But it's very important to get help because I know I have as an individual, as has my husband, and we finally found a good marriage counselor. And that's the way to healing, um, is just to recognize the problem and then take the bullet by the horns and try to do something about it. Because in the end, whether you stay married or not, you need to You need and deserve to have a happy life, and you need to be, to know that you'll be okay and get help, and it's a good thing to ask for help.

We all need it. [00:37:00] It's so true, Sari, that it's just such an important principle and, um, we weren't, no man is an island, no woman is an island, no couple is an island, and we all have blind spots when our own emotions are involved. I just think the world is designed that way, God designed the world that way, that we, we need each other.

And we, the smartest people in the world still need input, especially something so big like this. So, I definitely agree with what you're saying. Reach out for help. Good words. Anything else you want to share before I move on? No, just that I very appreciate, um, All the experiences I've had at Take Your Life Back and HFA and through my band group as well, um, and our, my band group leader and Barb's also encouraged us to come to your seminars and it was fabulous advice.

So, I appreciate you [00:38:00] and Brian and the work that you do because it's, it's so helpful to so many. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing, Sari. It is an honor and a privilege to get to work with people like you and, um, all the others. It really is, and it never ceases to amaze me. You know, when Brian and I started this work, there was part of us that, you know, I knew from my own experience, I felt, no, the affair issues need to be addressed head on.

We can't skirt these issues or lump it in with other marital issues because it's, um, Just not the same. And so we developed these programs and figured out, like, this is the key principles that are relevant to everybody, even though there's a uniqueness in every situation. But we wondered to ourselves, like, what kind of people will come?

But I've consistently found that it's actually a very high quality of people that do reach out for help. And, and so most of the people that come, if, if there was enough time in [00:39:00] life, I would want them to be personal friends. They're that quality of people. And so it's great. Thank you so much for sharing, um, Sari, your story and your journey.

I think too, one other thought that comes to my mind as you're sharing. You know, talking about the experiences and the surprise part of Take Your Life Back is that, you know, I want people to know that the reason why we do it this way is that your healing is not an intellectual journey, it's a heart journey.

And so we can write stuff, we can tell you stuff, 

, and those things are helpful. But at the end of the day, it's It's, it's your heart that's broken and it's through experiences that you get those aha moments that bring you that healing and that transition and that greater strength and that courage in the face of fear that are necessary to give you your best life on the other side.

So thank you for sharing. Okay. Um. [00:40:00] Jennifer, over to you, um, and you're still here? I am. Awesome. So, give us a little bit of background on your story, how long married, when you found out what your situation was, and, uh, um, yeah, start there. Okay, um, we had been married for 18 years when I found out about the affair, um, I, my husband had Uh, been having an affair for about six months with, Oh, I found out last November, um, so it's been about a little bit over 10 months now.

And, um, he had been having an affair with a woman at work for about six months at that particular time. And I, uh, I actually worked with her husband also, and he's the one that, um, had been suspicious for a while and he figured it out and brought her to and then he told my husband that. If one of them was going to tell me, so he basically [00:41:00] made my husband tell me that he was having this affair, and I think one hard part for me that, um, I haven't heard mentioned yet is I had no idea whatsoever.

I was completely stunned to learn this. And so, um, it was, it came as a huge shock to me. Yeah. And that was my experience as well. Yeah. Yeah, okay, so here you were and remind me again. What was like your D Day? It was November 16th of last year, okay, so you've been dealing with this for about a year. So what steps did you guys take to, you know, begin healing?

Was it chaotic? Did you know that you wanted to stay? Were you uncertain? Where did you go when it was initial? Well, and I've I've said this to you before and I I have always viewed myself as a very decisive and, [00:42:00] um, able to make good decisions kind of person.

So I was very decisive when I found this out and I was not going to stay with him. I immediately made an appointment with a divorce attorney. Um, I, I told him he could stay until, you know, we worked through the divorce notice. Like, but then of course, not having been through a shock or a trauma like this before a few days later, I'm like, well, maybe I don't want, like, I was very decisive.

And completely opposite directions over and over. So that was kind of crazy, but he from moment one wanted to reconcile and wanted to work it out and it was just like a veil was lifted, um, For him whenever it was revealed and I guess a big part of the draw for him was the secrecy and once it wasn't a secret anymore, it was revealed.

He felt very strongly that he wanted to stay and he hasn't wavered from that, um, throughout the process. Um, so he made an appointment with a marriage counselor immediately and we were able to see someone within a couple days [00:43:00] and she recommended a book and tried to get us going. But of course, um, like everyone, I was.

traumatized and in shock and not able to make clear decisions or know what that I didn't know how erratic my emotions and my feelings were going to be. So. We did see the marriage counselor for a little while, and then we tried, um, going to a different seminar, and it was, as I think you kind of mentioned about, you can't heal from the affair and work on the marriage at the same time, so that was more about marriage as a whole.

And so the time away for us was helpful, but the content of the seminar didn't really help us going forward. So, um, So anyway, it was just real erratic and up and down for, of course, the first six months like everyone and then after six months, everyone kept saying, don't make a decision for six months.

Don't make a decision for six months. And so after six months, I still, I [00:44:00] felt a little better, but I, Didn't feel all better, so I filed for divorce, because again, I'm super decisive, except now I'm crazy decisive, um, so did that, and then right after that, um, he and she stopped working together, and he moved on, got a new job, and that was a big turning point for me, understandably, as far as I felt like, oh, maybe we can actually stay together.

Again, even when I filed, he never wavered from wanting to work it out and then I went to take your life back in July. So that was May when it was six months and I filed. Then June, he stopped working with her. Then July, I went to take your life back. So I feel like, um, all the pieces were in place, um, you know, for me to be open, um, and then take your life back.

Of course, just, you know, gave me the tools to really be able to, um, to figure out, you know, some things and, and [00:45:00] start the healing process. But I would say, even though I'm, I know I made progress in those first few months, but really the first big start of the healing process was when I went to Take Your Life Back.

Awesome. So that was one of my questions, is how did the Take Your Life Back seminar impact you? I don't know what you can share along those lines. Well, for me, I am a very private person. I am not one who really shares my problems, you know. I, um, I just, it's not my way. And, um, so I was a little apprehensive about having to do a lot of sharing and, um, you know, um, having to, you know, just tell my problems to other people basically.

And, um, and I did not have a roommate. Um, which I'm really sorry that I didn't now because I'm just I view myself again as independent and, um, strong and, um, but like Siri said, one of the things that [00:46:00] is so amazing. And I've said this to so many women since I returned is growing up as a female. It. It's sort of unfathomable to think of that many women, I think with coaches are talking like 20 women and zero judgment.

That's just not how large groups of women operate and never never have I been in a situation where they're and just Zero judgment and I'm still in touch with all these women and I still perceive zero, zero judgment from them and I can tell them every crazy thing that happens and every crazy trigger.

I have this jack in the box trigger and now everybody like is like, we, you know, we will, um, you know, stand by you and your, what your triggers and stuff like that. And just having that support. It's just unbelievable. But I have said as well about take your life back that, yeah. I think, I think it's a shame that you have to be cheated on to go because all women that wear multiple hats, which is every single one of us need to go there and learn the tools because it's not [00:47:00] even, of course it's a, some pieces of it are about dealing with the affair, but it's about how to like take your life to get yourself back.

Like when you, for me, I had been married for 18 years at the time that I went, I had a, um, I think my kids were 12 and 13 at that time. Um, and. You know, I like had been so immersed in and I, um, I work and I just, you know, we all work, we all have all these different volunteer and organizations and sports and whatever we're doing, we lose ourselves and I didn't even realize how law, how much out of touch with myself I was regardless of the affair.

It was just so enormous for me, the takeaways, and then again, not to reveal anything, but you come home with some visual cues, visual items of reminders for yourself of, you know, this is how I need to, I need to, um, I want to live my life. [00:48:00] This is how I want to live my life. This is the person I want to be.

And, um, and then being able to apply the context of the affair to that. How, if this is the person I want to be, and this is my long term outlook for life, does staying married to my husband, does working on things with my husband fit in that? And for me personally, it did, but it doesn't for everybody, and it, it makes it, gives some clarity to that.

Yeah. So true. 

And so to that, you know, sometimes people ask, well, when is the best time to come to take your life back? Well, it's you're, you're dealing with this and it's whenever you found us, like if you come early on, yeah, you're in the trauma and the shock, but because we are able to give you so many tools, you're able to avoid so many mistakes.

But if you haven't found us till later, you're still going to take your life back. Uh, forward and in some ways you do get more out of it because you're, you, if you've moved beyond the state of trauma and shock, you're just able to retain more because you're, you're not in [00:49:00] as traumatized of a state. And sometimes we have people that come back and do it a second time in a different place.

Sometimes people are working on their marriage when they come and for them it doesn't work out and doesn't turn out to be the right choice and then they like to come again. And, you know. With a different emphasis of, okay, now I'm facing divorce and that's not what I wanted. So, good words. Um, so, Jennifer, what advice would you give to another woman who just found out that her husband has been unfaithful?

Well, um, I kind of want to, let me say one more thing, or I'll take your life back, I'm sorry. Because, um, I would say, just, um, Um, just to give an idea of the scope of it, it's the kind of thing that a lot of pieces of it, having a 12 year old daughter, I would love, like, I think you guys, it would be awesome if you did, like, a teen girl one, because it's just so much about just womanhood in life.

So, anyway, I just have to say that. But, um, but of course I've been coaching her up since I got back. But, [00:50:00] um, but anyway, on as far as advice, I think for me personally. Because I, um, I'm, I'm successful, like I'm viewed as successful because of the work that I do and, um, just out there in the world. Um, I, my advice would be to let yourself fall apart and let yourself just feel, you guys always say lean into the pain, which I think captures it, but for me, I felt like I needed to keep up this appearance and I would tell people, a few people, close friends, like, That this had happened as if I was telling them, Oh, well, you know, um, we had a minor setback and I think to just kind of like.

It's okay to be a complete mess and to let some things fall through the cracks. My favorite, uh, illustration of this is finally, after I was like, I [00:51:00] cannot continue to act like I have it all together. I fed my kids hot pockets for dinner and they survived. Um, you know, I mean, just, and that's some different people have different things, which indicate they're holding it together for me.

It's that I, you know, putting dinner on the table for my family every night. But. Different people have their different things and it when I finally let myself accept that this is for me personally thus far in my life, this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me and I am going to stop pretending that I'm not going through the hardest thing I've ever gone through.

You know, people were so like, Oh my gosh, you've been dealing with this and not saying anything, you know, and, um, and that, so to me, honestly, that's my advice is to, it goes along with what other women, the other women have said about, don't give yourself a timeline. And I'm struggling with that even now.

I'm like, well, we felt better. Why am I. triggering again. We felt better. My husband's doing everything he can. [00:52:00] Why am I still? I have, you know, why am I still, um, sad some days? And I think that, um, the biggest thing is to just really let it be as bad as it is. Is it that? Yeah. I think that's, that's great advice.

I love what you're saying, let yourself fall apart, and I think that in our society today there is such an emphasis on keeping it together and what we, when life hits us with things that are really hard, we don't give ourselves permission to grieve and to mourn. And I believe that is one of the reasons behind the, you know, such high percentages of people struggling with major mental health issues and anxiety because we're denying ourselves this, this process of grief, um, that leads to our healing.

And I'll, I'll also just share this, um, you know, we ourselves have three children. wonderful grown up children, , except , [00:53:00] we lost our wonderful son, um, who was 32, tragically, and it's just been interesting for me. I mean, of course, this has been one of the most difficult things in the world to go through, and I'm still going through that.

grief. But knowing how to grieve has been a tremendous asset for me. And it's interesting because this is my work and I've been kind of comparing that. And with the grief of our son, there wasn't a need to keep it a secret. And in that regard, you know, there's a certain aspect of that, that is, I mean, dare I say the word easier, but.

You know, that part of being able, nobody was expecting me to be happy. No one is, was expecting me to be together. Everyone was expecting me to fall apart. So I had permission to fall apart. And I think that we should be able to do that in a fair recovery. Also. The other thing that I [00:54:00] noticed is because you're able to tell people I was flooded with.

beautiful cards, sympathy cards, and cards with poems and words of encouragement. And, um, I know that everybody processes grief a little bit differently, but for my husband and I, side note of working through the affair, that we, we had each other in that tragedy, and uh, we would go to the mailbox daily and pick up letters.

The cards and it was almost like a ritual and we would read them and every word would matter to us and I thought, you know, I said to my husband one day, you know, it's too bad that we don't do this for people going through affairs. So I imagine that maybe we can see a little humor in this. But maybe I'm right, like, maybe there's a business opportunity for someone, like, we need a whole line of, um, greeting cards.

Sorry your dumbass husband cheated, but you're a wonderful woman. I totally agree! I totally agree. You know, it [00:55:00] would be, it would be better if we didn't have to, um, put on that happy face. And I respect the fact that I know that that, you know, everyone's situation is different. And for some, um, that isn't necessarily true.

But, you know, how much of a, how many of us are faking it? And even the most conservative 30 percent of marriages are, um, I believe it's much higher. It's very hard for organizations to come up with accurate statistics. But even if we go with the 30 percent or 1 in 3 marriages, you know what? Um, if it wasn't Your house, it would be your neighbor to the right or to the left.

Like, if you think about your neighborhood and every third house, there is an affair. It, that's conservative statistics. It just goes to show you how many people are putting on a happy face. You know, doesn't mean that they're currently dealing with it, but at, but at some point. And so. Something to keep aware.

Well, [00:56:00] ladies, we're at the top of the hour. Your sharing has been amazing. I really believe what you've shared is going to make a big difference for others who are, as we say, eating the dust behind you. And so thank you so much to all of you, Barbara and Sari and Jennifer, for sharing your stories. Thank you for joining us today and, uh, I'll give you an opportunity to say also goodbye and any last thing, if you, there was something you wanted to say you didn't get to, um. Now's your chance. Anything from you, Barbara? Yeah, I just want to say thank you, Anne, for taking the opportunity to share my story and help others.

And I just want to say something about Take Your Life Back, and I didn't mention it, but you feel so loved there, and for so long you're not feeling loved through this difficult process. But all of a sudden you have a room full of people that just love you. And it's just so filling and, uh, it really, truly is a wonderful experience to help you come back together to who you [00:57:00] are as a person and the new you going forward.

So, and, and Brian and, and all the team, thank you so much for everything. Cause it's really helped me along my journey. So thank you. Thank you, Barbara. Yes, and every woman deserves to be loved. And no more so needs and deserves that than when she's in the aftermath of such a big betrayal. It's a gift that, um, that she deserves for sure.

Um, anything you want to say in closing, Sari? I do. Um, I just want to say again, thank you to you and Brian and all of your counselors. Everyone is amazing. Um, but I, I think that it's important to note that our society does have a stigma about this. certain things like mental illness, for example, uh, and infidelity as well, and we really need to try to take that out of the shadows so that people can get the help that they need as they need it, and [00:58:00] that people who are suffering from one thing or another for whatever reason, you Um, don't feel so very alone.

And through your programs and take your life back for sure, um, you will never feel alone. You will feel surrounded with love and support and guidance. And that's so very important. Thank you. Thank you, Sari. Great words. I appreciate that. Um, anything you want to add, Jennifer, in closing? No. The other ladies have said everything.

I just want to, um, echo their thanks to you and Brian because for Doing this work, even in the midst of, um, your own personal tragedies, going on with the seminars, um, following that, because it, it is, you, you've just, you've changed, truly changed people's lives for the better, and I, I just think, um, it, it, take your life back, every female person should go through, regardless of gender.[00:59:00] 

Thank you so much to all three of you for sharing. So you guys enjoy the rest of your day and we will, um, be in touch. Um, goodbye everybody. And for those listening in to find the information about the seminar, you go to our website beyondaffairs. com 

or you can just give us a call. We would love to talk to you. Thank you and goodbye everyone.