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Cake Therapy
Cake Therapy is a heartwarming and uplifting podcast that celebrates the transformative power of baking therapy. Hosted by Dr. Altreisha Foster, the passionate baker, entrepreneur and advocate behind Cake Therapy, this podcast is a delightful blend of inspiring stories, expert insights and practical baking tips. Each episode takes listeners on a journey of self-discovery, emotional healing and connection through the therapeutic art of baking.
Cake Therapy
Jasmine Rae on Creative Expression and Entrepreneurship
Jasmine Rae, the genius behind Jasmine Rae Cakes, joins us on the Cake Therapy Podcast to share her extraordinary journey from an art-loving child to the Most Unique Luxury Wedding Cake Designer in the United States. Immerse yourself in her world as Jasmine reflects on her early days, where her quiet nature and inquisitive mind wove together a love for architecture, art, and the stars. Her first foray into baking, armed with old Crisco and a dream, set her on a path of creativity and self-discovery, shaping her into the artist she is today.
In this episode, we uncover the fascinating link between baking, art, and mental well-being through Jasmine's unique perspective. With a background in cognitive science and psychology, she opens up about how her life experiences, including being raised by a single mother, shaped her interest in mental health and creativity. The Cake Therapy Foundation emerges as a beacon of hope, empowering young girls to find healing and expression through the transformative power of baking. Jasmine's story is a testament to how intentional activities can be both therapeutic and profoundly rewarding.
As we explore the art of cake design, Jasmine offers invaluable advice for aspiring entrepreneurs, emphasizing the importance of finding one's voice and building confidence. Through her lens, cake design becomes not just a profession but a form of therapy and self-expression. Jasmine encourages us all to embrace the unexpected, find joy in the creative process, and foster a supportive community. Tune in to learn how the adventure of entrepreneurship and the beauty of artistic expression can lead to personal growth and fulfillment.
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Welcome to the Cake Therapy Podcast a slice of joy and healing, with your host, dr Altricia Foster. This is a heartwarming and uplifting space that celebrates the transformative power of baking therapy. The conversations will be a delightful blend of inspirational stories, expert insights and practical baking tips. Each episode will take listeners on a journey of self-discovery, emotional healing and connection through the therapeutic art of baking. There's something here for everyone, so lock in and let's get into it.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone, welcome back to the Cake Therapy Podcast, your slice of joy and healing. And, as usual, we try to bring leaders in the space, we bring amateur bakers in the space to talk about what baking is for them, what baking does you know to them and how it's influenced and impacted them and their communities. And today we don't only have a slice of joy and healing, we have the cake. We have, you know, we do Seriously, we do have the entire cake in this space and we want to welcome Miss Jasmine Ray. Jasmine Ray Cakes. Hi, Jasmine, thank you for joining us. Thank you very much. Cake in this space. And we want to welcome miss jasmine ray. Jasmine ray cakes hi, jasmine, thank you for joining us thank you very much, I'm really yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:so if we have bakers on here, you know who this is. This is the route amount rushmore of bakers in this space she is. She holds that space for bakers such as myself and others because she is quiet. You can see her presence on her Instagram, but she is bold in her choices as she bakes these cakes. She's a fine arts cake maker. She's an instructor, consultant with a Bachelor of Arts in Cognitive Science and a Master's in Psychology. With a Bachelor of Arts in Cognitive Science and a Master's in Psychology, she's a winner of Most Unique Luxury Wedding Cake Designer in the United States in 2023 and 2024. She's the winner of the Best Wedding Cake Designer in LA in 2022. She's the best of San Francisco, you know, stated in the San Francisco Magazine and she's been seen in the New York Times, vogue, lane, harper's Bazaar, martha Stewart, and it goes on and on and on. And it's really my pleasure to have Jasmine Delong of Jasmine Ray Cakes. So what has your day been like so far? Tell us a little bit more. What have you been up to up?
Speaker 3:to well. You make me sound so impressive when you list all that stuff at once and thank you for doing your homework. Um, yeah, the day has been gentle. I would say the weather has been really lovely and, um, I brought my son to school this morning and it was kind of a nice morning unremarkable, yeah, yeah, unremarkable.
Speaker 2:So you know you are remarkable in your work and the things that you've done, so it would not be I wouldn't do it justice if not to do our homework, but as we, you know we wouldn't do you justice. But as we sit back and we watch your work on Instagram and all these social media platforms, I would like for you to share with our listeners who is the young Jasmine. You know what was it like for you to grow up and was there art? You know in your life and how much of it.
Speaker 3:Um, thank you I.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that you go that far back and I think it seems really relevant to the work that you do in your foundation that you would go back to childhood and recognize, like the seeds that are planted then that continue to express as we grow and develop as humans, childhood, when asked what do you want to be when you grow up?
Speaker 3:You know something adults love to put on kids really early is my answer was always an artist or an architect, and then at some point astronaut was involved in there too because of you know, just like love for the stars, for the mysterious, for the ethereal. And so as a child I would say I was an avid, avid reader, like ruined my eyes and needed glasses very early in elementary school and on the quiet side but at home really kind of funny and playful. But it took a while to become comfortable around people I didn't know, so really more of like an observer type that as I got older I became more interested in developing a side of me that kind of reached out to others and connected with other people, not just from an observational standpoint, so making it more of an intention to kind of learn that other part of myself and who I was more as a social person.
Speaker 2:So then, what stage of your life did you come in contact with baking, or baking becoming a part of your experience? When was Jasmine Ray discovered, or the birth of that?
Speaker 3:oh man, I mean there I would say it's kind of like a series of little births. I remember seeing there were these like sunset magazine, which is kind of a funny thing, um, sunset magazine that my mom had, like these old ones that had wedding cakes. On the front there were this really traditional buttercream and the piping and all of that stuff. And I remember thinking it was so beautiful and baking a cake when I was maybe nine or ten and it looked like some sort of nuclear waste explosion that happened and it tasted horrible because we had this like really old ranted Crisco that I found in the back of the cabinet we used for it. So there was a fun birth there, as far as like generally connecting with something that I thought was really beautiful at the time and my attraction to that.
Speaker 3:But it wasn't until many years later, you know, going through an art magnet high school, so nourishing that connection to beauty, nourishing that connection to creativity, that that started coming through.
Speaker 3:And then it was only after college, undergrad, that I was given the opportunity from somebody who just was, honestly, you know, a bit of a hoarder and had an entrepreneurial spirit himself and he was like why don't you start a bakery, you know, and it really had nothing to do with who I was or my interests at the time, but I was really young and I thought, well, why not? So readiness didn't have anything to do with anything, it was really. It was just like here's an opportunity to do something, and then it took a while to make it my own. So, like those little births, and then I would say it was like eight years in that Jasmine Ray Cakes was born in a new way, just kind of like that Phoenix process over and over again, yeah, so you talked about going to an art magnet high school, but when did you start interacting with you know or exploring your interest around cognitive science and psychology?
Speaker 2:Like, at what part of that journey did that come to be? Because I'm assuming now that you did this is what you did in college.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's, it's a great question and actually, um, in some of my preparation for today, your preaching sent me some questions and I was like gosh, you know, I I don't know if I've really explored too deeply what my interest in people and cognition was, but in retrospect, you know my mother. We were a single mother, only child dyad. That was my family of origin and she was diagnosed with bipolar one when I was 11. And I'm wondering now because I never made that connection before. But I wonder in retrospect, at this point in my life, in my 40s, you know, whether that was a big influence in whether I pursued the kind of the science of and the understanding of the creative side of psychology and how humans are formed, how we think, all of those things that I was utterly fascinated with in my youth and never put that together yeah, you know it's.
Speaker 2:It's interesting how the small things or little things that happen in our past kind of influence our journey, because I too are. I'm from a single single parent household. I had my little mom doing everything that she could, but not only that. She was diagnosed with breast cancer and that kind of changed the trajectory of who I am today. So it's just interesting hearing that you know perspective coming from you. You know, after you've done that retrospective diet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I've been feeling so much gratitude for my mom lately and and this just becomes kind of another way of like seeing the way in which we're, we are formative um, from these incidentals, like you couldn't have decided that this was going to be something that you put into the recipe of like what makes Jasmine, jasmine, what makes Dr Foster, you know later in life, yeah, absolutely, and I think that in some instances, people sometimes are unable to make that correlation between science and baking and how the mind works, even though, like, we're worlds apart, right, but we're impacted and influenced by things that happen to us.
Speaker 2:Especially, in our cases, it's our mothers, this one person that's caring for us, that's impacting how we become ourselves. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Yes, I mean and that's interesting because that's so the core, that's my theory of practice and like in my art and how I brush it. You know I'm not a design everything. Sketch it all out here's where this is going to go, here's where this is going to go, there's going to be marbling that occurs up this direction, etc. You can't plan that. Yeah, like all of my techniques are about influencing a final result. Like you can set this up, you can set this up. You can set that up.
Speaker 3:But then when the two come together and they make a relationship, you can't plan that expression. It's just all you can do is be part of the influence, be part of the environment that formed something that there was no way to conceive in advance and then see it as beautiful, just as we get to see ourselves and we get to see the young women who are going to be influenced in your foundation. See that as beautiful and nurture it to be expression. Say, yes, you are going to be part of this art piece. You are going to be something that is brought to the world, that brings something thought provoking or beautiful to the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you mentioned, like actually that, the girls in the foundation, because that's the message that we send at the Cake Therapy Foundation. We're telling girls that here is a space for you to be able to express yourself. It's not going to resolve all the issues like it's resolved mine and yours and others, but it's just a space for you to help with your healing and your own personal transformation. And then this brings me to ask how do you see baking contributing to mental health and well-being? Any thoughts on that?
Speaker 3:One or two. I mean there are so many ways. It's for one, just doing anything with intention. I think you know it could be, it could be pottery, it could be, you know, fixing your bike. Um, it could be trying to redirect an ant trail outside because you don't want to kill a big trail. You know, like whatever it is, anything that you have, like an intention, and then you kind of figure something out in the process of fulfilling that intention. I think is naturally therapeutic. I think running a cake business is incredibly therapeutic.
Speaker 3:You have endless practice for self-regulation opportunities, so many times that you're going to be challenged over and over and over again in all these ways you could not have expected and you have to continue to keep your cool because there are things that are important to you in the end.
Speaker 3:And then, like another really big one is especially for people who may come from like an area where they didn't have a lot of privilege or there wasn't a strong mirror for their self-worth being able to create something and see, like yourself, progress and see the joy that it brings to others. Like you can exercise a lot and watch your body progress and say, oh wow, these muscles are getting stronger or I'm able to lift more or do more or more stamina, whatever, watching your stress by putting in those efforts. But when you can do something that contributes joy to another person's life, that's an impact that that can bring so much to your sense of belonging in the world, community, self-worth, confidence, affirmation of your creativity. It's so life affirming. And so I mean there's, there's, it's only healthy, you know, when you have an impact like that.
Speaker 2:And do you find that your background in psychology is it influenced how you approach or has it influenced your approach to making annual designs? Tell us a little bit about how you get to that.
Speaker 3:Yes, in a really big way. I mean for all the things that I just named around. Self-regulation, you know, especially the program that I went through was very much about practicing yourself, using yourself as a tool, facing your own wounding in order to see how are you interested in becoming a practitioner who supports others in their healing? You know, using yourself I a couple of things that come to mind, especially because I'm mostly making cakes for the wedding industry I see myself as someone who's being invited into a very meaningful ceremony, invited into the container of a marriage. You know, I get to be someone who participates in helping them create something new that day in their relationship, in their community. I could be a complete stranger, but I recognize the gravity of my role as another person there. So, having that good intention for them, that well-meaning, that support and hope that my, that what I'm doing is, is part of something that is meaningful for them, I consider that a form of practicing therapy, even though I'm not sitting down and counseling them or anything. You know, although there's jokes you know about like well, it's a little unethical, but like slipping the card and you know my therapist card, I don't practice that way anymore. Their anniversary to your box. You know like, oh, you need a little support in here. But you know I but just recognizing, like, even if it's not something I say, I don't put it on my proposals, you know I recognize that I am a meaningful contribution to the container of your marriage.
Speaker 3:Therapy, education, it's not something I felt so much beforehand and then generally like the other, the other huge way, I mean there's a bunch of little ways too that my education influences myself, my work. But the other small ways is so much about therapy as relationships. It's, um, you know, relationship to self, relationship to other, relationship to your environment, relationship to your systems and the other systems and the other systems around us. All of those relationships and all of those layers um, impact who we are, who we get to be, how we get to and then how we break through what we think we get to be. And so you know the way those things come together have so many fascinating dynamics that can be duplicated with materials, cake materials. You know the way sugar and water temperature interacts with all of these ingredients. So you know just kind of forming the relationships, finding them as fascinating as the human condition, like that they're the same.
Speaker 2:To me there's different facets of these dynamics you know, as I'm sitting here and I'm listening to how the relationship that you have with your cakes and developing them and the relationships with your client, I have to ask how do you incorporate this into your teaching component? Because you teach as well, you know. I know that people see your wonderful cakes and they want to come in and they just learn how you got this movement right. Learn how you make this sale. Learn how you got this movement right. Learn how you make this stay. Learn how you got this texture. But how do you bring people to the artist? But the emotional connection, you know aspect of it.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that question. When I first started teaching years ago, what I would see on social media was a lot of like come learn how to make this cake. And I took a class about 18 years ago where it was kind of the same thing Like here's the cake we're going to make. I'm going to show you all the techniques there. And I think that that's actually an important part of learning, is kind of like copying something and you know it's an important part of the learning process. Children do it, humans do it. That's how we, that's how we learn until we get to a point of self-expression. At this point, and when I started teaching, I was like I recognize that's valuable, that's important. There are so many teachers who can offer that and I think that that can be a little bit earlier in the process for people who are just being introduced to cakes.
Speaker 3:But if you have gotten to a point where you're more interested in kind of your own creativity, your own self-expression, I think people select into being my student, because that's where they're, they are, they're ready for like what's the me version of this? What do I want for that? And I think my role as a teacher is to listen to them and to help give them just enough tools in the process that what I'm seeing as beautiful and unique in how they want to express themselves and what their hand is willing to do and the way they're seeing themselves compared to the other students in the class. The so rich to be be in a class with others because you can see like, oh, I would make a different choice. I see what that person is doing there and like there's something in me that isn't like quite connecting with that. I would make a different choice.
Speaker 3:And then I get to watch that process and I instantly reflect that you see something different. There is something else inside of you that wants to come through. That is expression, like that is your unique perspective. That's you. That's you. That's you, over and over again, getting to reflect that back to the individuals as they are exploring. They all get the same techniques, they all get the same materials and at the end of the day, it's this huge, wide expression of different sort of cakes and all the little choices that they made that now they get to take that back with them and say I remember this part of me that showed up in that class. I get to go back to my own studio and recreate it and explore it and develop it and nurture it until it's like blossoming and exploding and becoming this other, like amazing, yummy artist thing. And that's for me what's exciting about um teaching and yeah, it lights me up, obviously up.
Speaker 2:Obviously, I know it's your thing. So you know, recently we found out that cake therapy is going to become a part of the college curriculum. Speaking to young bakers Awesome, right, and I noticed that we've been getting a lot of listenership, but I'm waiting to see where the listenership is coming from, if it's just based on those students. But my question to you, as these young individuals are listening and they and if they haven't heard of Jasmine Ray and they hear Jasmine Ray on the podcast and they go to your Instagram and I'm like, oh my God, I want to become Jasmine Ray. Tell them how they can become, and I would say, not Jasmine Ray, but become the best version of themselves, as you have become this version of you.
Speaker 3:I mean there are a lot of things. I think it's like learning anything. You if, if someone sees my work and they resonate deeply with it, and I know what that feels. When I've seen other artists' work, I can resonate and be like, wow, the person who created that, like were cut from the same cloth, like I can feel that resonance and I know other people feel that way sometimes when they see my work. If that's the case, there's something authentic and true for you there and true for you there.
Speaker 3:And I think a lot of times people might go immediately toward like well, I'll just try and recreate what I'm seeing as a way of kind of feeding my own like this resonance that I'm feeling. And it can feel clumsy at first. I think a lot of teachers or leaders in industries become offended like oh, you're copying me, you're trying to take the me away from me by recreating it or something. But I see it a little differently. I think a lot of times people are just, they're just trying to find like the expression for their own resonance of what they're drawn to, what is inspiring them about it. And so, listening to yourself, what does that mean? You know that's really hard to say, it's really hard to know, but you can start to kind of refine a little bit. You can look at the diet of what do I save in my Instagram that that causes me inspiration. How can I start to like provide some language to it? You know what are those words. That's something I do a lot in workshops. It's like let's put some language to the sources of inspiration that you have in your life. Some people can be really inspired by like gritty, concrete, industrial, city, steel, rust, blah, blah, blah. Like those words are really evocative. And then some people are like nature and tree and wind and flowers and you know, like the way the bird's wings flap, whatever it is like. Those are very different worlds. So when you can start to like provide a little bit of language so that you look at my work, I'm just like one person in this plethora of inspiration that can be found.
Speaker 3:Look for those similarities between all those things. Bring language to it. Relate it to yourself. Listen to yourself over and over again, because you're already there, you're already expressed. Relate it to yourself. Listen to yourself over and over again, because you're already there. You're already expressed.
Speaker 3:Like people want to. They're like I'm looking for my signature, my style and it's true, we have to try on so many things. We have to try it on and be like is this fitting, is this not fitting? Et cetera. But you can start to listen to yourself by refining these things more and more. So, start to listen to yourself by refining these things more and more, so I, I mean, I think what I would say is for anyone who wants to be me I'm guessing it's more like they want to be expressed, they want to find the me, their me version, and maybe they're residents, but they don't really want to be me.
Speaker 3:No one wants to be me. I mean, I hope, um, but they want to be themselves and if there's some resonance there, there there's certainly some nuance. That strain makes them unique. And celebrating that specialness, inviting the language, and having that dialogue back and forth between, like, what is, what is my chosen diet of inspiration? And how am I and how am I? How, how could it be showing up in all these different ways that I live my life, not just in work as a cake maker?
Speaker 2:absolutely, because, you know, I too find myself as a baker, cake designer myself, right, I find myself like looking, trying to find who are you really out, trisha, as a, a designer or a person in this cake space. And I can tell you, like, when there's some artists, when their work pop up in my timeline, I'm like what was she thinking? You know, what was he thinking in that moment? Right, and sometimes I see your work, or Marina Machado, or Lima Cakes, and I'm like, oh, all this movement, like what's going on in their head at this time. So I do get what you're speaking of in terms of like a resonance, like what of this is resonating with you? Is it a color, is it a movement? And I'm like, immediately put in that space.
Speaker 2:Okay, what was Jasmine thinking when she did that? Like, why is she? Why is it shaped like that? But it's cute, it's all about what's resonating with you, the individual. And it brings me back to your cakes and the shapes, the movement, the designs. What inspires you? You know, when you're making a cake and you design the cake, what is it for you? You know, when you're making a cake and you're buying a cake, what is it for you?
Speaker 3:I mean, there's a lot that goes on. It's a pretty somatic process. So much of it is like my body provides information, you know, like if I put something here, you know, and it's kind of doing this swoop there and it's kind of doing this other swoop, etc. Like it's not. It's not visual information so much because I've tried to do that. You know, when someone's like, oh, I love this cake of yours and I want you to recreate it, first of all, you never can, especially when it's something that has honored the natural process, which is the cornerstone of my work. It's all natural process, so you can't recreate anything. Nature can't recreate anything either, not exactly. So, uh, so, paying attention to, like the visuals and the forms, it can be exciting, but for me a lot of it comes back to all of these other things. So I use a variety of information in order to inspire my cakes. One is the conversation that I have with the client. The language that emerges from that conversation is very important.
Speaker 3:Sometimes I'm like saying words over and over and over in my head. I had one client who she said the word spiritual. I said how do you want to feel at your wedding and nobody had ever said that before In all the years that I had been making cakes it was maybe like 12 years in no one had ever said the word spiritual and I was like that's really interesting. So the word spiritual became an important guiding, creative component for that particular cake and I just said it over and over again.
Speaker 3:Sometimes people like there's a specific piece of music that's really meaningful. All right, my job, I'm going to be listening to this music while I'm working on your cake and that is going to continue to inform me. But the tool of my body, like when I create something and I can feel like I'm always looking for this feeling inside myself, inside this tool here, I'm always looking for this feeling inside myself. Inside this tool here, I'm always looking for this feeling of like that's right and it makes me a little uncomfortable, like I want it to be just a little bit uncomfortable so that I'm being pushed into that territory of like it's familiar enough that I'm like, yes, but novel enough that I'm like, oh, you know, like, well, it's kind of interesting and exciting. So I want, I want the right balance there and then I'm like OK, that's now, I'm in the right territory for making these choices. It's amazing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it really is amazing, because guess what it's amazing? Yeah, no, it really is amazing, because guess what? I'm sitting here right and our youtube viewers are going to see all of these actions, because she's moving her and her body is like literally contorting, and I'm like, oh my god, this is what is actually going on and it actually does show up in your case. Her fingers are moving, guys, her body, her neck is at one side, her shoulders is one side, oh, my goodness. So this is your process. This is your process and it's like it's in motion, it's in the moment. It's amazing to see, it's amazing to watch and it's amazing to listen. And where did you find that confidence or when to be able to rely on your feelings and to be able to listen?
Speaker 3:That's a good question. You know there's a certain amount of experience that you need for any skill. You know they talk about like 5,000 hours, 10,000 hours. You know to become like an expert level with something and to some degree I do ascribe to that. I think that that is important just to like you got to log those hours, because there's so much information that occurs in that process you don't even know what you want to embark upon. You cannot be told. You have to just have the experience of practicing over and over and over again, failing over and over again.
Speaker 3:But failing is a really great confidence builder. Um, because failing and then like surviving it and being like, wow, I'm still alive and um, you know I'm, I'm going to be okay, and, like you know, all the people in my life haven't walked out on me and I'm going to be okay and, like you know, all the people in my life haven't walked out on me and I still have food and shelter, like those, like failing and still having basic life things is a really important confidence builder. Another thing is reflection from other people. You know building confidence. You create something and then you know getting used to people saying, oh, okay, well, that's kind of nice, or I haven't, that's not appetizing, or I've never seen anything like that before. And then there comes a point where people are like, oh, I've never seen anything like that before, you know, and they become more and more intrigued and, um, and that can build a lot of confidence. Like, okay, maybe know, and they become more and more intrigued and um, and that can build a lot of confidence. Like, okay, maybe I'm on the right track or maybe I like that. They don't like it. You know, like you can go into all of this, different territories, like your own psychology, relating to how others are, but you have to keep putting yourself out there to with others, and that's where social media has been an incredible. It's an incredible source of reflection. I think that that can build a good amount of confidence.
Speaker 3:And then again back to my education. The specific type of psychology that my master's is in is somatic psychology. So it was very much about like honing my body as an instrument, learning to trust the information in my body, to tell me what was going on with this client, in using my body as a tool for, you know, knowing when I'm on the right track, when something feels creative, when something feels wrong. Um, it's just there's so much, there's so much information in there, um that that you know you can like kind of keep bringing it back and forth, like have a thought about it, provide some language to it, feel it, embody it, you know, and then bring it back to more language again, et cetera. So like that dialogue, self-to-self rich.
Speaker 2:But that, that level of self-awareness, you know, it's really cool to witness right in front of me too. So what are some of your, your cakes? You know like I talk about them, they're usually so intricate. Um, I love them. They're they're just unique pieces and they're never duplicated. But very rarely do you see something like that similar, but never. There's no duplication there. What are some of your favorite decorating methods and how do you stay so innovative in your cake designs?
Speaker 3:The decorating methods, it's just every technique kind of comes down to this idea of the natural process, and I define the natural process as one thing that's different from another thing. Put it together, create something new. All life is like this. That. It is the definition of nature. Like a person and another person come together, create a human, that human is a totally different thing than either one of the original creators, same with you know a plant, same process. Original creators Same with you know a plant, same process. Things coming together, conditions, new thing emerges. That's like the cornerstone of all the work, the natural process, everything I do. So it's all about finding these dichotomies. It's finding, you know, one example I gave earlier. That's a really, really clear, tangible example and was the cornerstone of one of the techniques I became most known for early on Hardened fondant that was like dried out and tough from being exposed to the air, mixed with fresh elastic.
Speaker 3:You know, fondant that had a lot of pliability, that had a lot of pliability. When those two things come together, that a pliable fondant forces the tough fondant to kind of start to break in really specific ways that they don't meld as easily. Some part might meld a little bit with the other part, but then it becomes the vehicle that drags these pieces of this hardened fondant through. You can't create, you can't design in advance, you can't say like, oh, this little thing is going to do it like this, and then, like the air is going to come in and force it to kind of change here, and then, like this pockmark is going to show up and blah, blah, blah, you throw some you know sand sugar on it and force it in a different way. Like you can't say, well, there's going to be one here, one here, one here, one here, one here, one here, one here, one here, one here, one here.
Speaker 3:Like that's the process is like all over it. Like you don't get to control those things. I don't, I don't want to control those things. I'm more interested in, like what is this third other thing that I could not have conceived of beforehand? What is that going to be like? That is so exciting and that is the root of like being kind of eternally inspired is because there's life in it. There's life because things are coming together and creating something that has to surprise you. You have to be surprised in your work if you don't, if you don't give yourself opportunities over and over again to be surprised. You're going to deaden your emotions to the process very quickly and say, okay, I need it to look like this and I want a flower to be pinned right there you still have. There has to be some way that you are bringing the unexpected into your work, otherwise you will flatten out pretty quickly.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I know, then, that you must have some potential clients reaching out and say I want this cake, I want this cake that you made. How do you say no and how do you lead them from that thought into what you will ultimately create for them At this point.
Speaker 3:People don't say that to me as much anymore, but there, yes, there was a time. That's an important part of the learning process. That's an important part as an entrepreneur to go through that period where people are kind of bombarding you constantly with, like I want something else and I want you to be a conduit and I'm not interested in you yet. That's fine. That can be a really long period. That can take years before you kind of move past that. So anyone who's in that position right now please forgive yourself. Like you're in an important part of the process. You just keep going, you'll get there. But what for clients who come to me and are like we love this cake, we want something very close to this? It's? Instead of saying like well, I'm not going to recreate that, I roll them in the natural process and I say that cake, let me tell you the story of that cake and I can tell them something fascinating about that cake so that they learn some of the origin of what life dynamic happened that created the cake.
Speaker 3:The other thing I do is I try to delve with them and some clients are more and some clients are less capable of doing this.
Speaker 3:How does that cake make you feel Like what is happening inside of you when you look at that cake?
Speaker 3:That cake is information about the way you want to feel in your relationship, the way you want to feel at your wedding, the way you feel for yourself.
Speaker 3:There's information there. That's the place to be designing from. I want to be witnessing that part of them so that I can bring that, and I'm like you know my expertise is I then have to find the techniques that work with that part of them so that I can bring that, and I'm like you know my expertise is I then have to find the techniques that work with that part of them. I want to bring that to the design that I create for them. And when I explain a little bit more of this process, they're like so much more excited instead of getting the like no, I'm not going to recreate that, I don't do that they're hearing a yes to you. Like who in you is going to, like universe in the night sky, like what you know, like whatever that sensation is. They may be able to describe something there, like that's the source of the to describe something there, like that's the source of the design.
Speaker 2:Wow, let me tell you something. I'm sitting here and, as a young baker myself, I feel like I'm actually at a TED Talk. No, I do. I'm like I'm just taking it all in, and I know that there are so many more of us who look up to you and who are going to hear this, and I'd like to know, like, what do you think your legacy is going to be and what do you want it to be?
Speaker 3:I don't know. I mean, there's a part of me that you know is like I don't want a legacy. No legacy, it's like this is this is everybody's stuff. Like that, you know, this belongs to everybody. Like, like this isn't this is everybody's stuff. Like you know, this belongs to everybody. Like, like, like this isn't, this isn't mine, you know specifically. And then there's another part of me that is very like, oh no, my ego. Like I created this and I brought this to the cake world and I, you know, and I want to be known for it. Um, you know. So just, the legacy question is like, there's a lot of tension in it for me.
Speaker 3:I imagine, based on the reflection that I've received from students and clients, that, and actually, you know something I will say for myself. That's something I like to say to clients, especially if I like give them a cake that has lemon curd after they've professed that they don't want lemons. Um, you know, in their cake. And then they're like, actually, it turns out, I love it, and I want to order that one for our wedding. Who knew as, um, I love to help people surprise themselves. I think that that's that's me that feels. It feels like something that I can help participate in that process. For people to surprise themselves. I would say that that you know is kind of the long and shorter. There may be. You know things that you could photograph or put in a book or write about or whatever. There might be other like components of the legacy, but I think just that experience, mostly it's isn't that's important to me, that feels alive to me yeah, this has been like really inspirational.
Speaker 2:but before I let you go, I want to give you the opportunity to speak to the girls that we're trying to impact through our foundation who, after listening to bakers or artists such as yourself and others who've passed through the podcast who are saying that, oh, I want to be a pastry chef or a cake artist or an entrepreneur what is your advice to them in that realm in terms of entrepreneurship? But I also want them to hear you share with them about their future and how it belongs to them.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's just so beautiful, like just that proclamation it's your future and it belongs to you. I just I think that's really beautiful. I, you know, I would say it's an adventure. You know, anything you embark on is an adventure, especially if it's something where you are sourcing it yourself. I think that's kind of the heart of entrepreneurship is. You say, I want to be at the source of something, and so anyone who's already inclined to do that, I think that's a very powerful place to be. So just being prepared for the adventure, making community a priority, even though you want to be at the source of it.
Speaker 3:Nothing gets done alone, nothing. And it's interesting because many, many people become famous singularly and you don't always know about all of the other credits that go on behind it. Like in a movie they show the thing but everyone's like, oh, the new, I don't know Ryan Reynolds movie. There's like one person is like, well, I'm the face of it or I'm associated with it or whatever, but like there are so many other people involved in it. And so being community, caring about the people who are supporting you and supporting other people who also want to be at the source of their own life, their own story and their work. I think that's really important, especially in an industry that can be very lonely at times. You know, you're, you're. You can be alone in your kitchen for a long time before you ever have an employee or a colleague. And educating yourself on the business side it's. But beyond that, like the business isn't a necessary evil that everyone has to do the drudgery of the business. If you want to have a business, you got to run the business. I think we can tend to kind of fall into the trap of thinking that it's that but it's not. There's a lot of stuff that maybe people don't know yet. Many people enter the world of cakes not because they're like I want to run a business, what kind of business should I run? How about cakes? It's more like I want to make cakes. I just want to, like, do that art all day. I want to have my fingers in the sugar and, like you know, play with cakes and all that sort of stuff. And then I, oh, business.
Speaker 3:The business is an incredible part of your art and your art it's. It's the part that makes it possible to interact with other people. It's the part that makes it possible to send a message to the world. It's a part that makes it possible to listen to the world, um interact so much with all these different things. The business is another expression of your art. How can you design your business to be part of how you know you're the creative person and so being inspired by that part of it, I think you have to kind of fall in love with the whole of it, and there are some things you can offload eventually, when you, you know, have colleagues and say, like well, you're better at this and I'm not as good at that. Like that can be important dialogue too. But still, seeing the business, you're the, you're the source, you're the shepherd of what you're creating, and so so kind of inviting that back into, like this is still part of my life and this is part of my personal expression, is the way this business happens too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she says, fall in love and remember that nothing gets done alone. Thank you so much, jasmine Ray. This conversation has been awesome you and Lumiere in this space and I hope that our listeners will get as much from it as I have gotten from having this conversation with you. I want to invite our listeners to subscribe to the Cake Therapy Podcast. Follow us on Instagram and follow Ms Jasmine Ray. If you haven't, you have to, you have to. You must go see her work. Rae, if you haven't, you have to, you have to, you must go see her work, and I hope that you get the whole cake, not just a slice of joy and healing, from this podcast. Thank you, jasmine, for joining us. Thank you, so share with our listeners before you hop off where they can find you JasmineRaeCakescom or JasmineRaeCakes on Instagram.
Speaker 1:Alright thank you guys for joining us.
Speaker 2:Bye, bye, today's mindful moment. A well-prepared dish is a gift of love, not just for others but for yourself.
Speaker 1:Share it with a friend. Also, follow Sugar Spoon Desserts on all social media platforms. We invite you to support Cake Therapy and the work we do with our foundation by clicking on the Buy Me a Coffee link in the description or by visiting the Cake Therapy website and making a donation. All your support will go towards the Cake Therapy Foundation and the work we are doing to help women and girls. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll catch you on the next episode.