Cake Circle Community with Jasmine Rae: Co-Caking, Cake Play & Business Support

Cake is invited to life’s biggest moments, yet the artists who make it are often asked to accept bargain pricing, rushed timelines, and invisible labor. Dr. Altreisha Foster sits down with returning guest Jasmine Rae, fine art cake designer and instructor, to name that disconnect out loud and map a path forward through Cake Circle, a new community she is building with Azara of Milkmoon Kitchen.

We get real about what drives burnout in the cake industry: a low barrier to entry, the pressure to perform before you feel fully trained, and the constant demand to be creative while also running a business. Jasmine shares why developing a creative voice is not a switch you flip but a long process of practice, copying, and growth, and how underpay and overwork can crush that process fast. We also talk about why community is not a luxury for creative entrepreneurs, it is a nervous-system need, especially for bakers working long hours in isolation.

Jasmine breaks down what Cake Circle is building, from co-caking hours that make Friday prep less lonely to Cake Play design practice and small-group consulting circles for targeted business support. Then we zoom out to the bigger vision: culture change. Think guild-like frameworks, clearer experience levels, and public education that helps clients understand what cake artistry is worth, so cake makers can earn a livable wage and build sustainable careers.

If you care about baking therapy, creative entrepreneurship, cake artistry, and mental wellness for small business owners, this conversation will hit home. Subscribe, share with a cake friend, and leave a review with one change you want to see in the industry.

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Transcript

Welcome To Cake Therapy

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Cake Therapy Podcast, a slice of joy and healing with your host, Dr. Altricia Foster. This is a heartwarming and uplifting space that celebrates the transformative power of baking therapy. The conversations will be a delightful blend of inspirational stories, expert insights, and practical baking tips. Each episode will take listeners on a journey of self-discovery, emotional healing, and connection through the therapeutic art of baking. There's something here for everyone. So lock in and let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Hi everyone, welcome back to the Cake Therapy Podcast with me, your host, Trisha Foster. I'm excited to be here today because we have an exciting guest in the lineup for you. Oh, we will be welcoming back someone who truly embodies the idea that cake can be both cake, art, and therapy. Our guest is a fine art cake designer, instructor, and creative visionary with a background in cognitive science and psychology. We actually first met this guest in season one of our show to talk about her personal journey and deep connection between creativity and mental wellness. Now she's back to share something new and exciting with you. I'm so excited to welcome back Jasmine Ray from Jasmine Ray Cake. Alright, so welcome back, Jasmine, to the Cake Therapy Podcast. We're happy to have you back. Thank you. Yeah, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Well, today's a really energetic day. Um, so I appreciate the question because that's just a good um a good place to be. It's not always this day, but today it is, which is good.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

I know our listeners will be happy to to have you back. You are one of our most listened podcasts in episodes in season one. So I'm sure they're excited to hear what you what you have to say, you know. Because I'm sure your followers have noticed as well that you're rolling out something new with a partner, of course. So I'm I'm happy to have you have you back to talk a little bit more about it. So the last time you were here with us, um, we talked about your journey into cake design specifically, but how baking, in fact, actually connects with mental um mental wellness, right? Since then, it seems like you've been building something really special. And I remember you mentioned that you were working on something. So I'm not sure if this is the thing, but you did mention that you were. Um, so tell us what has been uh happening since our last conversation.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

I have, I mean, so much has happened. It's it's interesting because in retrospect, I can uh form a different narrative around it than when I was in the thick of it.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Yeah.

From Fallow Season To Partnership

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Um, which I think a lot of people would relate to, especially from the last five years when narratives were just completely. Sorry, I have some really cute neighbors who do ring and runs every day. So I think that was my ring and run. I don't know if you heard that. I think, you know, in the last five years, so many people's kind of like life trajectories and narratives were so derailed that everybody was just kind of fumbling and trying to find a new way um to understand even the process of what they were going through, the changes that inevitably may have happened um at the individual level as well as, of course, the collective level. And um, and one way that I can talk about it today that I couldn't before was that I felt like a field going fallow, just being in this space of having to kind of re-churn the soil so that something new could be planted. And um, and so during that time I was conceiving like how do I keep my fingers in the batter and still feel really connected to a sense of purpose now that so much has changed. Um, and I think a lot of people left the industry during that time, and I very I came very close to it. Um, Azara, incidentally, on the other coast of this country, was uh going through a similar process and in a different way from a different place, and um and we were both kind of conceiving of this idea of coming back with a little bit more of like an activism quality, something that like addressed more at the community level cake makers, and she was just going to start a community that it was a wrap that was about like kind of living your voice, you know, in like the wild impassioned way. And um, and I was coming from the place of like I'm going to have more like videos um that you know talked about all the different facets of cake making, etc., as well as the industry and decorating, and then bringing our voices together just it felt like a fluke, but I really think it was more faded. Um, and and we just came uh together, and it was we were the alignment was uncanny in the first 30 minutes of our conversation. We were like, oh, this is a partnership. Um, we have the same, the same goal, the same like long-term thinking of how we want the industry um to be up-leveled in a really way. So um that's kind of like been the larger thing, and then it turned into Cake Circle community, and all of the beautiful little synchronicities, you know, started showing up, even in the even in the name of calling it Cake Circle felt really perfect.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yeah, I I actually love that. So that's Azara from uh Milt Moon Kitchen. I'm hoping to have her on so our listeners could could hear from her as well. But what what is the gap or what are some of the gaps in the cake industry that you both are hoping that this cake circle would actually fail or will fail?

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Oh, I mean, the the gaps, there's there are gaps in the industry, but really the biggest gaps are in the public. And um the the the fact that the public values cake and invites a cake to every meaningful moment of a gathering and and a milestone in their in people's lives, but they don't value cake when it comes to like recognizing the artistry, paying for it. Um I would say not across the board, but on average, that is one of the biggest complaints that inside the industry people don't feel valued in the work that we do. Um, and so the gap is that the public does care about cake, does value cake, does recognize the importance of cake in culture, but isn't necessarily backing it up with the respect for the industry that the industry needs in order to feel healthy and sustainable. So that gap is what we are really focused on fulfilling. And that's gonna happen at three different levels. That's gonna happen like at the personal level of, you know, what am I developing as an artist and a business person entering this industry, doing this at the professional level of like, what does my business look like? How do I serve the public? But really also at the cultural level, like of like changing, like transforming the public's perception so that they are able to value cake in ways that are more material and actually support the industry and recognize the value that we are providing for the culture.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Yeah. So then the stakeholders then in this, are you inviting the community to be a part of the cake circle, or is it just for bakers and so are you inviting users?

SPEAKER_02 7:53

Oh my gosh, that's such a good idea. I think that's a it's that is such a large scope in order to address the entire public, like basically the whole world. Um I think I think the messaging has to be kind of two directions. One to the public, you do value us, and here's how you can really show it. And it's going to be in certain ways that you show respect to your cake baker, the way recognizing that you're inviting them into something meaningful. This is the cost that's associated with running this business, and therefore these are the compensations that we need at a kind of a minimum, a livable wage minimum. So those conversations can be had with the public over platform like social media platforms. But I think the the arm that we're really focusing on right now is the um is how to talk to the people inside the industry so that we are sharing a conversation and forming a new way of being able to address the public at every little spot where somebody is working. You know, like I can have a very small business, connect into Cake Circle, get some understanding, feel affirmed, get any like some sort of training, even, and then come back and be able to have these conversations one-on-one with my clientele and start to transform around me, where I work, in my community, in my little neighborhood, where I'm serving my clientele, I can start to transform at those little levels. And so we as the industry have to have kind of like a larger network, shared understanding, conversation about these things, so that we can start to transform at all of these little hubs, and I think that will impact the public perception.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

So what I'm hearing is like then the initial goal or the immediate goal or short term is to increase knowledge in the community so that that can be transferred um to the users of our businesses.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Yes, yes, to the people we serve. Yeah.

How Change Spreads Through Bakers

Creative Voice Over Trend Chasing

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Okay, perfect. So you know, the last time when you were here, um you always spoke about cake as more than dessert, and I get that from our conversations, and you're so deeply connected to this artistry that um that you're a part of. Um, Cake Circle talks about cake as a space for play, exploration, and artistic voice. Why is it important for cake artists to find their own creative voice rather than simply follow trends?

SPEAKER_02 10:26

I mean, there are I I would say kind of two main things about that, um, although I could probably talk for just an hour on this. One, it's sustainable. If you have your own creative voice, your personal, you have a personal stake in the work that you're making. And that that will get you through all of the little points of friction that you will inevitably experience as a business person. And um, and so that's really, really important because if it's something where you feel like this is this is me, I'm um I'm on the line personally, and my creative, this is part of my development. Um, this is my offering to the world. If you have your own creative voice, you really are in touch with that in a way that makes the business quite sustainable and healthy, thriving.

unknown 11:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Um, and then the other, the other point I would make is um I and I I'd like the this is kind of like a nuanced point. I want the conversation to be framed less as you either have your creative voice or you don't, and more like recognizing that it's a path of development.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

We all go through points where we we don't know our creative voice yet. We re- and it can be years and years and years. Like I keep identifying for myself that there's like this eight-year mark where like something coagulated and it'd be like really gelled for me. But there were times where I absolutely copied other people. If you go to extremely famous museums, artists who are very skilled will be sitting there copying works that they consider to be done by masterful artists who preceded them, you know, hundreds of years prior. So that copying and not being in touch with your creative voice is still part of developing toward it. One of the reasons that um it's it's it's we have kind of like an interesting little uh any creative work is kind of like this, where you're not learning specific skills and being kind of like officialized by some larger board that says, okay, you've learned the sufficient amount of XYZ and you take this test, and here we give you this license, and now you can practice medicine or law or architecture. You know, we are able to just enter the industry voluntarily without any training. Yeah. There's no barrier to entry. You just all you have to do is be able to follow a recipe and have the equipment to bake a cake, and then suddenly you're on stage performing as a small business person. And without that sense of training, there really isn't confidence that you're going to be able to fulfill on um uh fulfill on the work that you want to be doing. So that creative piece, that's that's something that often happens in the background for many other industries while they're developing skills.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Because we're at the forefront, we're already like interfacing with clients while we're still in development. It can be a long time for that creative voice to be showing up before the demand to have it uh is there.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yeah. And then imagine how hard it will be to explore your creative side if you're overworked and you're actually leaning towards burnout. So it becomes a catch 22, too, you know. You want to be creative, but at the same time, you're actually getting burnt out because you're overworked and underpaid.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Right. And part of the reason that we get burnout in this industry so much is because of um the low barrier to entry and not knowing really what it takes to have business chops. That's something like people are like, uh, the business side, that's kind of the evil piece that I need to accept in order to like do the fun work. But the other piece is what I was talking about before around the activism, the public's perception um needs to transform as well. So really starting to distinguish all of these parts, that's the conversation that we need to be having inside the industry and bringing that out to the public.

Burnout And The No-Training Trap

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Yeah, yeah. And and then this brings to us like the need for community, right? To be able to have these conversations with others. Because so many of us work in these spaces of isolation, right? Especially one, we we have like really long hours in the kitchen. So, what do you think um community, or why do you think community is actually so important for creative sustainability?

SPEAKER_02 15:10

I mean, just just to bring it all back to my psychology training, we are open systems. You know, we're we're designed to come into this world. We are not independent uh coming into this world. There are many, many, many, many years before we get to the point where we are actually able to influence our own ability to survive. So attachment, which you of course are gonna know so well how this fits in, but I'll, you know, just kind of like gloss over it here for the for the or you know, go through it quickly for the but attachment is is key to survival, the ability to uh form these bonds and relationships with other people. So that doesn't stop once we're independent, once we're able to like, you know, provide our own food and shelter. That continues all through the end of life that we need to be in relationship with other people as a core part of our ability to survive. And in fact, it does it isn't just about a bond with one other person, like our primary caregiver as we as when we're children, but at the community level as well. So attach expanding beyond just you know a one-on-one relationship, attachment at the level of group is also key to survival and actually becomes even more important as we get older and we have to interface in a society. So, I mean, just right off the bat, anybody working in isolation is gonna be at a disadvantage in terms of feeling confidence and that sense of like, this is gonna be okay. I think connecting with a community is a really important part. And I get any trepidation that somebody might have about doing that because sometimes it can be like the right fit, or community can feel a little bit overwhelming at times. So, you know, one of the things that we do in the community that we're creating is just everything is is like kind of an open invitation, and you participate as you can. Things will come to you, and then you put in as much as you have the bandwidth for because I think we're also really overwhelmed. Yeah. Um, but anyway, I I think in general there are a lot of different cake communities, you know, kind of addressing different things. Many of them are very topic-based, um, which can be really great, or you know, kind of like some general ideas, like it can just be like business training in general, or business training specifically for cakes, or decorating focused, etc. But just being in community, just engaging in community, having these moments where you're able to um feel less alone in what you're doing. There, there's there's so many ways to to benefit from that interface.

unknown 18:02

Yeah.

What Cake Circle Offers Members

SPEAKER_01 18:02

We we we hear Kirk Kate Circling, and you know, the visual alone speaks of connectivity, right? Connection throughout. Um the model in itself. Like what are the expectations? What are you what what is being offered in in the circle outside of mentorship and possibly some training? If there's training, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Uh that's a great question. So there are kind of three arms to the circle, um, to Cake Circle, and and one of them is maybe kind of branching into more like a coalition, like a guild of some sort. So I'll talk about that in a second. But inside the community is there are a bunch of like little activities that can be um uh you know utilized as just part of the base membership. And that can that's co-caking hours. So we were talking about isolation. Fridays tends to be a pretty isolating day. So many cake makers don't get to have like, you know, fun kickback Friday nights, hang out with friends, etc. Um, because that's like grind time, you know, while working to fulfill on um all the parties that are happening on Saturdays. Yeah. So having co-caking hours is literally just like opening your laptop, turning it, turning on the screen, and there are other people who are also making cake there in that online prep on that online space. Yeah. And you can just bop in and be like, hey guys, I'm working on this thing. Um, or you know, what do you think of this that I just made, or anything like that. You know, it can even just be ruminations, or I have these thoughts, or like um feeling a little stuck around something with this client, and I kind of want to get through it. Whatever it is, like it can also just be utter silence, just like having someone there in the in the background and knowing that the tribe is near. So co-caking hours is kind of like one feature. There's another really awesome feature called Cake Play, where Azara has been putting together these like kind of fundamentals of design. So it's like kind of a a more I don't necessarily want to say academic, um, but it's a it's a sophisticated approach to how do we design cakes. There's sketching practice involved, um, which you know, some people surprisingly, even though we're artists, there are many different mediums that we work inside of. And some people, I've been um, I've been surprised to learn some people are like, sketching is not my thing. It's actually really challenging to do that for a client. Yeah. Um, but you know, give me give me the full sculpture, like get my hands dirty, and I'm all there. Um, so just getting to practice that sort of part of it. Another feature is um just even having like a conversation, just like this dedicated space to uh kvetch or get advice or perspective about something. Um, you know, because we all have have those moments of just like wanting to talk about like what do we need? What do we hope for? Um, you know, what sort of support is there? So that's kind of you know, a sum of the features of the community. And then there's the consulting side, which is more formal, and that's like you have to kind of register at another level for that because there's more training, that's like really coming and saying, my specific business, I need a particular issue addressed or expertise and the reflection of another small group. Um, so my uh consultation circles are open so that three to four people at a at a time are together for 75 minutes, and everybody gets a dedicated amount of time to say this is an issue I'm going through. I just wrote this web. Copy, I need more eyes to look at it. I need feedback about that, etc. And so that's just a small consultation circle. And then at some point, Azara will be rolling hers out in the next couple months. It's gonna be about visibility and marketing. So that's where kind of the training aspect is. It's less decorating focused, generally like creative voice focused, business support, overall life work balance, etc.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

And then the third one, I feel like I'm just going on and on. You're so patient with me. Thank you. Um, the third arm of it is the activism piece, and that's the coalition. And that's the piece that personally I'm really pumped up about. Um, I know Azara is too, and that's where we are going to change the industry. We're gonna change it. And it's going to happen in with a variety of initiatives that might start out small, but we have a lot of ideas um in the pipeline of what we want to be doing and getting people involved so that the conversation inside the industry, everything we talked about, we can start to transform it. And then there's like all the future, you know, ideas like a podcast, also, which you would have to be guess, a summit, you know, other in real life uh gatherings and you know, other ideas that are kind of like assaulting us every night.

Lessons New Cake Artists Need

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Yeah, this sounds it sounds heavy. What are some of the things that you guys, um you and Azara are putting in place to avoid getting burnt out in this process because you are both stalwarts in the field, and now you're opening access to yourself, right? And your characters. What are the parameters that you put in place to make sure to ensure that you don't get burnt out?

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Wow, that is such a good question. Um, you know, as we as we haven't quite felt that yet, we still have so much energy. Um I I don't think that has been up for us as much. So when we come back on your show in six months, we'll take that when we can. But uh one thing I will say is that I have already been scaling back my business in uh to be a different way, so that I'm making very few cakes per year in order to for my life to open up because I have been working behind the scenes on building something like this for a really long time, and it's been just kind of like in an incubation inside my head. I mean, I obviously also have like a 100-page document that you know I've been do these ideas, and Sarah has too. It's been something that she's been building in the background while working another job. So um I think we both feel ready to kind of pare down some of those other things because this is what the argument is, this is where the so that's that's kind of one approach, I would say, is that now that we feel more energized and clear about what we're making, all of those other things can um just be uh kind of lessened and and given more of their like dedicated spaces so that more focus can be on this. This is our priority.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

So as you guys as both of you are creating the cake circle or partnership in creating the the cake circle circle, what are some of the lessons that you learned that you wish more cake artists knew earlier before they get to the burnout stage?

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Um, I would say one really big issue is um it's okay to still be learning. In fact, it's expected. And that's one of the um that is related to what the initiative, I'll make that connection in a moment, one of the initiatives we're gonna be rolling out. But because there's a low barrier to entry to this industry, many people come in and are immediately having to perform, immediately having to deliver on promises. And you know, they they build the thing and then they start making the cakes, and it can be exciting every new thing that you do, every new thing that you learn, but there's so much to learn because it isn't just making the cake, it isn't just about perfecting that recipe, it isn't just about getting a new decorating technique under your belt, it isn't just about exploring your creative voice. There's also running a business, having to learn all of that. It's participating in a wedding industry, maybe, if you that's the if that's the sort of cake you make, or at least the events industry, um, and the culinary world, and being a small business person, which involves marketing, and one person wears all the hats at the same time before they've even necessarily had any training, education, internship, you know, in situ experience. So the to to recognize that for the first few years while you're working is part of your training. And it's okay if you haven't got it figured out yet. It's okay if you mess up all over the place in certain parts that would that are not your strength or interest. And it's okay to keep pursuing um more information as you go and to recognize that maybe you're not going to be paid as highly in those first years because you're you are kind of like bypassing a lot of education that people pay out of pocket for. So you're not going to necessarily be paid back. That when you enter this field, you're going in for the long haul if you if you want it to be something that actually becomes a sustainable career.

A Guild Model And Industry Levels

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about, let's shift a little to impact. What impact you'll um you and Azara are hoping for in the next year. And then tell me about the five to ten year impact that you hope to have on the industry.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

Those are uh great time frames to consider at the differences between. Um, I'd say in the let in the in the next year, a lot of it's going to be building, just continuing to build, continue to, you know, um out a lot of outreach, uh getting people on board. I what we're introducing is something that's really new to the industry. So I don't think that um there's any sort of model that people would be able to turn to within the industry. You'd have to look to other industries in order to understand. It's a little bit more like a guild or a trade association. Um, but at since it's happening at a global level and there isn't like one government to be registering to, um it's it's even more unique than a trade association or a guild. So um, so even just enrolling people in the idea and helping people understand what it is that we're doing really, um, I think is going to be a big part of what we're doing. I mean, just as everything I just said too about coming into the, you know, becoming a cake maker and the whole learning process, we're gonna be doing that too. And we're gonna be performing kind of on the front end. So even though we have a lot of other experience that got us to this place, we will be performing before we even know how to, because there's no one to turn to to find out how to do this. Yeah. We have to be inventing it as we go. And we're already getting, you know, we're amassing a a small group of other people in the industry to start attending these roundtable discussions so that we can work all of that stuff out and get the word out there. So that's kind of what the first year is gonna be. And then in five to ten years, I think what I would love to see is that public perception is starting to change. I would love to see cake makers entering this field, understanding, okay, what what level am I? Am I like apprentice level? Am I journeyman? You know, just carpentry, et cetera. Um, and then and what's associated with that, you know, so that when I tell uh the public, oh, you know, order cakes from me, I'm kind of at a journeyman level um cake maker, so therefore my pricing is kind of structured this way. These are some of the things that I expect um to be able to deliver for you. You know, this is like what my um experience and education level shows. These are the sorts of cakes, therefore, that I know I can deliver beautifully for you. Yeah. And that can be really helpful. And then on the inside, they would even know more like, you know, this is the phase where I go through um, you know, crippling self-doubt at first, or I have a little bit of imposter syndrome, or, you know, at higher levels, like I'm starting to step into a leadership role. I'm learning how to deliver workshops and train others. So, like, you know, once everybody kind of starts to get distinguished in understanding like what should I be able to expect and what should I be able to demand from the public based on my area and my level of experience, I think that framework will really help cake makers entering the industry to know how they're progressing, where they're going. And it should hopefully be re-relaxing. I hope they can feel that people can feel like they can rest inside of having that structure instead of like they're just out there flailing and trying to create a business and you know, do these sorts of things. So in five years, I would hope to see that sort of thing that inside the industry, we are organizing, we're having important conversations with clientele, educating the public, we are formulating our own ability to organize our stats and establish our levels of experience. And then in like 10 years, I would like to see um the impact really showing in the public eye, in the public perception.

Assessments For Skill And Burnout

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Uh, just curious, is there like a self-assessment within this um model where people could actually take this test to know exactly where their level of cake artistry is or even their level, how close are they to burnout? Are there any assessments within the model?

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Okay, first of all, uh thank you so much for um yes, that's a great question. That's exactly what I was hinting at. There's going to be like an assessment. Like, where are you in the Larry of Extise? What's the center at this level? That's exactly one of your big initiatives.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

I learned it. Then I was like, okay, let me pull it out.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

See if you did. That's exactly what I was saying. I was just hinting at it. Um, so yes, you've got it out of me. That's one of the things that we're working on. Um, but one, but I also really appreciate in your question you asked about burnout. Yeah. And I think identifying like how burnout is gonna show up at each level is gonna be absolutely key. In fact, I'm gonna make a note about that right now to be able to incorporate how burnout um uh is going to fit into this because that is obviously like part of this industry.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Because I think for a circle, such a community such as this, I think there needs to be a tool to say how close am I to burnout, right? Maybe you are level one, level two, or level three. Um, I I I would welcome an assessment like that because I'm somewhere there. Very close to there.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

We all are. The world is so overwhelming. I'm sure you talk about this a lot. I mean, we our nervous systems were not designed to be exposed to this level of chaos. Yeah. Uh technology has made it possible to live inorganically. And we just evolutionarily have not had time to catch up. So, you know, protecting protecting our very real biology, um, I think is important. And and if anything, this is you know, this is another bender I I could go on talking about, but if anything, this is an extra important time for cake, for something that is created in an embodied way. So far, artificial intelligence cannot actually create cake. Yeah. Um, it symbolizes gathering humans coming together, doing something meaningful. That's something that AI doesn't really even need to participate with in any way and can't really it can't necessarily intrude upon that space. And is a sensory experience. We're taking it in during our most meaningful moments when we're encoding the memory of like, wow, this really powerful, poignant event is happening in my life. Yeah, like the taste of it is stronger, the sense of it is stronger, the the the joy or the love of being around beloved people, community is stronger in those moments because they're imbibed with meaning already. So, you know, having um uh having having a craft that affirms our humanity, it's like extra important right now. You know, burnout, burnout is inevitable if we don't prioritize our embodiment and our human experiences.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

You know, uh what I'm excited for the most as I'm hearing you speak are the stakeholders within this cake circle, the users of this, because I'm hearing how your training in cognitive science and psychology is influencing the way you actually think and approach this. And it's important, and I think it's going to be life-changing and healing for so many of us in the community. So I was like, okay, here is a piece that she's using all of her tools, everything in her shop, in her wheelhouse is coming into this and it's creating this magnificent, magnificent thing. And I can't wait to see what happens within the next year. Because five years is good, but I just want to see what change, what changes within the next year. So that's those conversations.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

I mean, first of all, you and me both, because look at you, you're in cake and you have your degree, which is like, you know, after my own heart. Um so yes, I all of it. I feel like I feel like we all need psychology degrees to do any sort of work, actually, to some degree. Um, but yeah, I hope, I hope in the next year that we have that there's something that we can measure. Yeah, yeah. Even if it's just, even if it's just that more people are feeling that they can reinvest in their business. There are a lot of people with one foot out the door. There are a lot of people who already hung up their aprons two years ago. But there are more people still who held on, but they've got they have one foot out the door and they're wondering why they should stick around. And so I hope I hope that we can measure them reinvesting in this work. I think it's gonna be more important than it was even 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Yeah, absolutely. And even to get some information around this is my science um background coming in, is how close they are to burnout. I think that would be something very easy to capture. So that would be interesting to see.

Cake As Human Craft In A Tech Age

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Yes, yeah, and how to protect ourselves. Yeah. Um, yeah. I mean, starting with community. I one of the things that you know we're realizing in order to get um really high-quality business consulting or business advice, or um, even be in a community of people who have, you know, similar businesses. I have turned to other fields and industries in order to get business consulting because there really isn't a whole lot that's honed specifically for the unique features of the cake industry. Um and so we we've done a lot of work like translating that typical small business um approach, models, all the different sorts of perspectives, theories of practice around business. Like so many individuals who were in cake will turn to those other communities and they have to make that translation of like, okay, well, how does that apply to what I do? I don't have that kind of business. I have my kind of business. And so, like, I'm having to do that extra work. That can be fruitful, but being able to go to a community where that is already honed is just in place. It is part of the, like, that's really important. And there are some, there are some communities in place that focus on that sort of thing. Um, and I think one of the reasons that Cake Circle is going to be like new and different is because we're operating at uh like more of a like the full trade association. So we're operating at the level of culture, more so than just industry. Um I think I think there are a lot of communities in that middle section, personal, professional, there are a lot of people kind of at this level, uh, but starting to make change and transformation at the cultural level. That's what we will be doing. And that's going to involve the help of all these other little communities. I don't believe we call them little, some of them are huge.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

Yeah, but but these other communities are going to be part of those efforts. And what one thing we want to do is like figure out a way to kind of like envelop everybody so that there's a clear understanding, like we are not competing. Yeah, you are an essential arm to being able to, you know, kind of disseminate the same conversations that the whole industry needs. You know, like we're working together.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Yeah, you know, mindset shift is really challenging, but I really can welcome and appreciate this holistic approach that the cake circle is taking. So I really do look forward to the success of it and what what changes it's going to bring and make in our community. But before we go, I would love for you to tell our listeners how can they connect with you, learn more about the cake circle, and where can people find the community who want to join and become a part of this conversation.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

I mean, one one of the little points of Kismet that happened very early on is that cakecircle.com was available. Um, so that's our URL, cakecircle.com. Enter the enter every part of this conversation through that URL, cakecircle.com. Um we're also on Instagram as Cake Circle Community. And uh no spaces or anything else there, and uh Facebook as well, but really like the website is is kind of the main thing. And then you can always send DMs and messages to us through either of those platforms. Um and you know, one of the things is like we are we have a really big appetite, Azar and I both do, for knowing what's on other people's minds in the industry, seeing the work that they're doing, um, fielding questions people have. So the invitation is like, it isn't just there, it's like big. Like, please reach out. If there's any way that you're like, I want to be part of the activism. I don't really work professionally, so I don't know how to necessarily find my a way into the community, or like I'm only interested in this sort of thing, so I don't necessarily need to be, you know, get consulting per se, but like I still want to be part of the conversation, et cetera, sharing, whatever it is, like the invitation, like please reach out. We really want to know what are people needing, how are people thinking about things, and where you know, how we can start shaping everything together.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

So, guys, the URL is cakecircle.com, and there is a cost that's attached to this, of course.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

Yes, I mean that to be in the membership, it's it comes to like$30 or$33 a month, um, which we price hopefully low enough that in almost any economy around the world, it should be kind of a no-brainer that you know it's not gonna be a barrier for people. Um, the consulting side is more expensive, of course. But the activism piece of it is like that just needs to be done.

SPEAKER_03 43:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

And that's not going to require membership. I mean, those we will still, if you just even want to be on the email list and like learn about the initiatives that we're doing and start to like take some of those things on and make those little changes inside your neighborhood and community, as I was talking about earlier, like all of that's going to be available whether you're in the Cake Circle community or not. So, you know, there are a lot of ways. To still have involvement without having to pay. But then, but you know, we we also need to make a living for all this work that we're doing. And there are other things that we're providing inside the community that, you know, hopefully would just kind of make it an easy yes to participate and be there. But either way, please, like the invitation is big. Yeah. The outside is big. You know, find a find a way in.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Yeah. She says, find a way in because the invitation is open to you all. Again, go to craigcircle.com. I want to thank Jasmine for joining us today for sharing this very new exciting chapter of your work. Um, I know you hinted it in season one, and I'm excited to see it actually come to fruition. So thank you so much for coming back and sharing about this with us.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

Amazing. I'm me too. And you know what? I'm really glad to have the bookend of our time together last time and then now even. And actually, I shouldn't even say the bookend. There's probably like another bookend in the future that I haven't seen yet. But um, I could not have known then what this was gonna look like today. And I'm really just so heartened. And um I appreciate very much having your platform to get to talk about this.

Mindful Moment And Closing Announcements

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Of course. Thank you so much for coming, and I want to thank our listeners for joining us as usual for being great listeners and and great users of the Cape Therapy Podcast. But before we go, I want to share with you a mindful moment. So today's mindful moment is that the kitchen is a place of creation. Embrace each step, each stir as an act of self-expression. I want to thank you all for joining us. And before we close, I want to invite you all to grab a copy of my book, The Cake Therapy, How Baking Changed My Life and Lessons I Never Learned from My Father. They're both available on Amazon. Um, just click the links in the episode description. I want to thank you again for joining us, um, Jasmine. And until next time, thank you for joining the Cake Therapy Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

My pleasure. And we'll have a Zara next time.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

Yep, we definitely need to have a Zara on because I would love to see how the mind was working. Because I know I I spoke to you initially, and you had this. You were sitting on this thing. Um, so I I want to hear her process as well to see how she got from there to here.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Yeah. She's been sitting on, yeah, she was sitting on a thing too. And so when they came together, it was like, oh, you complete me. It was perfect. Oh, you complete me.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Well it's the cake circle. Exactly. It came full circle. Thank you so much. It's always fun to talk to you. I love how um I love how you think and you process things, and I love to see the journey, and I've ex I've enjoyed it. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

To you as well. Thank you, Dr. Foster, for the quality of your listening. It's powerful.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

Thank you so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

Bye. Bye. Cake Therapy invites you to our first fundraiser, the Spring Dessert Experience, on Sunday, April 26, 2026. This will be an elevated afternoon of desserts, connection, and collective healing. Save the date. Thank you for tuning in to the Cake Therapy Podcast. Your support means the world to us. Let us know what you thought about today's episode in the comment section. Remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcast. And if you found the conversation helpful, please share it with a friend. Also follow Sugarspoon Desserts on all social media platforms. We invite you to support Cake Therapy and the work we do with our foundation by clicking on the Buy Me a Coffee link in the description or by visiting the Cake Therapy website and making a donation. All your support will go towards the Cake Therapy Foundation and the work we are doing to help women and girls. Thanks again for tuning in, and we'll catch you on the next episode.