Optometry Profits Revealed with Peter Precht
Welcome to Optometry Profits Revealed with Peter Precth, your ultimate resource for achieving profitability in the eye care industry amidst modern disruptions. We delve into everything from online frame purchasing, innovative prescription programs, to state-of-the-art lead generation and sales software.
Join us as we help opticians, ophthalmologists, and optometrists navigate through these challenging times and grow their businesses to unprecedented heights. Learn from industry experts, successful eye care entrepreneurs, and our host's own wealth of experience in the field. Tune in and gain a clear vision of your path to eye care business success.
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Optometry Profits Revealed with Peter Precht
How Pennsylvania Is Leading the Way Toward Optician Certification & Better Patient Care
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Most children face a daunting journey with eye care, but Danielle Crull’s innovative approach turns their experience into a positive adventure — blending cutting-edge technology, compassionate design, and playful engagement. Discover how her practice, 'A Child's Eyes,' reinvents pediatric eye care with a unique, kid-friendly environment that fosters comfort, trust, and even fun, transforming the way children experience glasses and eye health. From a space that feels like a cozy street in town, to her pioneering Truffles organization inspiring children across the globe, Danielle shares practical insights on making vision care accessible, less intimidating, and more effective. You'll learn about breakthrough tools like the Stellest lens for early detection of vision issues, and how her organization’s programs encourage young kids to wear patches and glasses with confidence. She discusses the profound importance of connecting with parents, dispelling myths, and emphasizing kindness as a foundational value in all interactions. We break down: Why the focus on environment and experience trumps traditional methods, the power of play and storytelling to alleviate fear, how new legislation and certification are shaping the future of opticianry in Pennsylvania, and the role of innovation in reducing misunderstandings about blue light and myopia control. Danielle’s journey reveals the crucial role of ongoing education, legislation, and authentic relationships in elevating eye health standards. This episode is essential listening for any practitioner or parent eager to understand how a holistic, empathetic approach can dramatically improve outcomes for children’s vision. If you believe eye care should be fun, friendly, and effective, Danielle’s insights will inspire you to see possibilities beyond traditional models — because the future of vision starts with kindness and innovation. Danielle Crull is the owner of A Child’s Eyes and a passionate advocate for early eye care and innovative pediatric solutions. Her organization, Truffles the Kitty, has gained international recognition by inspiring children worldwide to embrace their vision journeys with excitement and confidence. Perfect for opticians, pediatric practitioners, parents, and anyone interested in transforming children's eye health — this episode fuses heartfelt stories, breakthrough technology, and actionable strategies to redefine what’s possible in visual wellness.
Talk with Peter Precht: www.eyecclearly.com
Welcome to another episode of Optimetry Profits Review, and I'm your host, Peter Breck. Today I am blessed to have a discussion with Danielle Kral. She's 38 years in as an optician. She's owner of a child's eyes in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, which has been open 24 years. It's pretty amazing. The Truffles Truffles the Kitty organization, which we'll talk a great deal about today. And without any further ado, good to see you again, Danielle. Thank you for coming.
SPEAKER_03Hi Peter, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00You know, we were talking and we certainly want to talk about technology, but we've got to hit very succinctly on the changes that have happened in mechanics work. I mean, just in the last three years, you've you've moved locations. Talk to me about the new setup there, what you're able to do, and then and also tell everybody about the focus of your practice. Obviously, the name gives it away. You're predominantly dealing with children, but that's not all that you deal with.
SPEAKER_03Right, yeah, thanks. Um, so yeah, a child's eyes. Um, we've been in business since 2002. I started with uh I think it was 500 square feet when I opened in 2002. I just moved into my uh first, second, third, this is my fourth building. Um, and you know, when you're being blessed and you you know you just want to like be able to provide more and more for people. And so now I'm in 5,000 square feet. Uh, and in our building, we it's called Seymour Street, and it's uh formulated like a street in a town. So when you walk inside uh to the right, you'll see like a little suite shop where it's for infants to toddlers where they get to pick their glasses and they have little order windows and little pickup windows here, and we have a little soda shop table. Uh, it's so fun because I will sit next to a mom or a dad at this soda shop table while they're holding a little toddler on their lap, and we're talking glasses, you know, it's very relaxed, very comforting. We have surprises hidden all over the office. We have little uh sprinkles up on the ceiling and donuts and stuff like that. So everything's like a bit of a surprise as you come in there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm surprised I haven't been there yet. It it doesn't look at all like a dispensary. It's no and but it is, and you know, the the trained eye will notice oh, there's frames or here's where that is. But that's I don't know. Did you design that on your own?
SPEAKER_03I did, yeah, yeah. I mean, because I've been working with kids for so long, uh, and it's so it was so exciting to be able to design this. Um, you know, my daughter also worked with me too as we were talking um and and designing things. Uh I finally had a chance to take a space and make it work for me instead of trying to work inside a space that I had, and it just kind of really all fell into place. And so when kids come in, they don't really necessarily feel like they're being fit for glasses, you know, they just have this very comfortable feeling. Even the waiting area has park benches, so the parents sit on park benches or the kids sit there. Um it's really fun. You have to come.
SPEAKER_00I do. Well, it's funny because the questions that I that I had are from I that hasn't seen it, but a lot of the questions I'm asking, okay, talk to me about a new tech and how it's easier there. It sounds like the entire design, the entire the entire building, uh, for lack of better terms, is that uh is what you're what you're talking about. You you you designed it through uh the the mind and and the eyes of of the child, which I think is really unique. Um because a lot of most of the uh most of the pediatric practices that I see are focused on the MD and the surgery and the eye care and the experience of getting eye care is isn't talked about. Um it certainly isn't taught. And let's go right into what services that are very specific to what truffles does in relationship to a child that's coming to see you and how you deal with the parents as well.
SPEAKER_03Uh so in specifically with you mean like the truffles to kitty organization and those types of services. Yeah. So truffles as an independent optician fitting glasses, so I've got truffles out here, and then I have my job that I do here. And of course, truffles became famous because of the job that she does here at a child's eyes, which is put glasses on and encourage kids to wear their glasses, and she gives high fives and even wears an eye patch. So through the organization, uh, we've been able to reach kids, you know, all across the country, even all around the world, and she offers specific services. Uh, particularly, she has a web application program for kids who are wearing an eye patch to help encourage them to wear their eye patch. She gives encouragement packages. We mail those throughout through kids around the country who maybe just need encouragement for wearing their glasses or are gonna have an upcoming surgery. She sends a little blanket to them or a little stuffed animal that they can have during their surgery. She encourages kids who do vision therapy as well. We wanted to make sure that we included that. Uh, we're currently working on a lot of things about myopia management and encouraging kids to wear their myopia control lenses, whether they be glasses or contact lenses. So everything that Trouples does is really about encouraging kids along their vision journey, celebrating their vision journey and spreading awareness about their vision journey so that when you're walking down the street and you see a kiddo who's wearing an eye patch, you maybe understand what those reasons are, or a child who has an eye that turns, you know, what might be happening that that is happening. And it's all about celebrating the hard work that kids do. I think we we often just like the doctors say, Oh, go and do this for three months, and then the child and the parent go and do this for three months and have no idea what to do or how to get through that. And that's where truffles really, really helps.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, if things are not going to be clear while we're trying to make them clear. Because that's hard to get your head around as a parent, and most certainly as a child, like I'm going to the eye doctor, I don't see any better. Um, you know, how do you police that? How does that I what a role? I mean, and truffles is the the perfect ambassador for that, at least certainly in my heart. Um, you know, you and I both have a thing for for for cats, which is a little different. But but that you know, talk about talk about and obviously the whole the the new walls, the new design, the new layout is is a is a technology that helps. But even wearing an occluder, that's that's an odd technology uh that is old. Let's talk about your journey with that. I mean, uh how how how is that how has that been easier to do with truffles versus before?
SPEAKER_03You mean like wearing the eye patch and everything, right? Yeah. Spreading awareness um is a big thing. Uh, we have an initiative in October which is called the Pumpkin Patch Project. We've been doing it for many years. It's a community initiative where we ask people to put a patch on their pumpkin to help spread awareness. So I think spreading awareness is the big part. I think helping parents understand. I have seen so such a misunderstanding to the point where uh there was a study that was done by the NIH that um that that talked about how parents were patching the wrong eye because they misunderstood. Um, they thought they had to patch the bad eye. Right, you know, so all of this misunderstanding. I've seen parents put patch in on their child's, you know, eye, their good eye, so that they have to use their amblyopic eye. And then um the child says, I can't see, and the parent says, Yes, you can. And I'm like, No, they can't, but that's okay, because we're gonna work around this, we're gonna, you know, help them see, and you know, that's that's what's kind of the point of it. Um, but you know, all of that, it's not their fault. It's just, you know, our the way our system is set up, and I and I'd love to talk a little bit about this is that you know, you've got five minutes with the doctor, you know, five minutes with the technician, five minutes with the doctor, and then you're left with the rest of your life dealing with whatever it is that's going on. And our system doesn't really set up very well to give parents, um, or all patients, we'll say, but I'm gonna focus on kids because that's what I do, um, to give parents the proper information to do what really needs to be done. And that is where I step in in my business, you know, as an independent optician. It took me a long time. You know, we are trained, uh, my employees, like when somebody says they want they call for an eye exam, and uh we don't do eye exams, you know. But to change our wording, we don't say we only fit glasses, we say we specialize in the fitting of eyewear because we want people to understand that this is its own entity, you know what I mean? It's it's it's not something that isn't as important as your eye exam. I would argue it's more important because you can give the best prescription ever, and if the child doesn't wear the glasses, it does nothing. A prescription's a piece of paper until you make it into something, and that's what we do.
SPEAKER_00Um you know, look at the discussions in countries in the world where the optometrist is the optician. Yeah, where they're doing where they're doing both roles, you know, the one or two-man shop. All of the discussions are about what we talk about. All of the discussions are about how do glasses interact with eyes, face, duration. What are you doing? How long are you doing it? Why are you doing it? What do you love to do?
SPEAKER_03Um, yeah, understanding, you know, eyewear can be such a valuable tool in your life and for an adult and for a child, it's a necessity to create vision. And I feel like people don't really even understand that either. That you know, you build and develop your vision in those early years of life, and that it's really important. So wearing glasses isn't about you know listening to your mom or dad, it's about growing and developing vision, and it's important that they understand that and do that, and so you know, you've got like a lot of dynamics that you deal with in that and overall, how has the industry presented that value?
SPEAKER_00Um, you know, how has that how has that translated to the patient level? Uh a patient that's more than willing to grab a PD and a prescription and order online. I'm not necessarily well, not even necessarily because they because of a choice they made, it's just because everybody else does it around them. Yeah, or whatever. I mean, that's and there's a lot of that. There's a lot of that inside of technology and outside of technology. I mean, is there a specific technology that you can think of over the 38 years that you really did not like and tried to get introduced? It was like kind of a disaster, you know.
SPEAKER_03I you know, I'm gonna get a lot of heat for this, but I'm gonna say blue light.
SPEAKER_00You're not getting any heat. Let's be very honest about it.
SPEAKER_02There are people let's be honest.
SPEAKER_00Well, hey, whether it's psychosomatic or not, if there's somebody getting a reduced uh effect of migraines or they feel better after they leave the computer, whatever. You know, we know that it does block blue light. The product will definitely you can tell because for me, when I remove any photocromatic, I get an explosion of glue. You know, if I've worn it for five or six or eight hours, that's just me personally.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, so I feel like that was the problem. It really wasn't presented well. I feel like it was a lot of marketing without a lot of real uh information that was presented to people, and it was more like, oh, this is how you can sell this lens, and this is how this lens can benefit every single person, and this is how you can make some money. Um, and and I'm always, I mean, I've been around for a long time. So when products come out like that, I'm always like, okay, let's see. And, you know, I dig into the studies and I try to look at things, and so I'm presented with, you know, a hundred seminars and you know, credited seminars on how to sell this particular product, um, but without giving the real information on the product, I I'm not bashing blue light, I'm just bashing how it was presented and how it was brought out and how it, you know, much misinformation was out there.
SPEAKER_00Oh, completely.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and the sales were uh were pushed before the benefit of it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. Here, it's it's a circadian rhythm issue, and that rapidly got debunked. You know, so here's the industry out promoting and selling that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then, you know, two, three years down the road, there's two, three, four articles that came out, I guess about two, between two and three years ago, that highly debunked every circadian rhythm aspect of blue light locking. Um, you know, I are there other things going on there? Of course. Do we know the the blue light has something to do with the flashy flashy of the casino? Of course. Yeah, absolutely. There's we know there are things happening that stun us and draw us in and things like that from a visual standpoint. Um but again, to reach deep and say it's affecting everyone's sleep levels. It's not, you know, the ADHD is quite possibly keeping them, you know, the child staring at the phone until 3 a.m., not, you know.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Probably not.
SPEAKER_03I mean, and they're there, I mean, in in reality, our best defense is to not be on our screens all the time.
SPEAKER_01There you go. Get outside.
SPEAKER_03Rather than making our screens, you know, make giving us a pair of glasses that it needs us to be on our screens all the time.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03I. Those studies were done with kids who were required to be outside and play, do screen breaks, all that kind of stuff. And you know, I think the same thing with with that lens, which which we do really well. I I really do um like the lens. I think it's a the most non-invasive myopia management option. Um, and it's it's a it's a great lens, and it's a great option to have. And the studies look all great, but you know, if you look at them, the studies aren't just wear glasses, the studies are this is part of a plan um to help, you know, slow down myopic progression and glasses while being a big part of it are not the only thing. You know, there are other things that we we can add and combine with it to help. Um, and so that you know, it's part of what we do at the office.
SPEAKER_00I think it's exciting as heck to have plans that are structured that aren't overwhelming. Um, you know, is you and I have butt heads on the come on, give me a three-step, it's one, two, three, and you're like, doesn't quite work that way. And well, but but everybody wants a pretty little package, you know. Everybody wants uh the pretty little neat little one, two, three, it's fixed the next patient. And that again, there's a craftsmanship of of of what opticianry is about that that I think is uh a little bit lost in the weeds, but I also think that that is something because of the artistic components that are delivered from an optician, that that they if if if that's you know, if the if you're gripping that sand and it's going through your fingers, that I do understand why some opticians get upset, which leads me to what what I think is is uh something you champion tremendously constantly on social media. We were talking about it before we started recording. Um but it kindness it's a very simple approach, but you lead with it everywhere. Um to the point when I see you get upset, I'm paying attention.
SPEAKER_02Well my family says too.
SPEAKER_00It's like if it's upsetting, then yeah, I better perk my ears up and listen. But that you know, talk talk a little bit about that. I know it's a it sounds oversimplified, and and I guess you you and I both tend to leave with kindness and as always have, but speak about it because you have talked very openly about it on social media recently.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, kindness is is an opportunity that's afforded to us every day. Um, and you know, kindness, and I feel like it's easy for me to talk about it because I can talk about these sweet children and everything that they're going through. But the reality is it doesn't matter how old you are, you know, everybody, you know, wants to have to feel um like your interaction meant something, you know, like that that opportunity to stand in front of somebody and to talk with them and to meet them at this particular place in their life, it means something. For me, a lot of times I'm meeting a parent who's dealing with an issue with a child. Um, sometimes I'm meeting the child where they're at, and it can be difficult. I have this one um girl, I was just I just saw her yesterday, so she's she's fresh in my mind. Um, so she's she's 23 or 24 now, and I've been seeing her since she was like one year old, and um, she has uh anaurities and other eye conditions, and she also has um definitely some you know OCD components and stuff like that. And like if I hand her her glasses, it takes her a very long time to get her glasses on, but being and in that moment, you could be frustrated in that moment, you could be um angry in that moment, you could be thinking about everything else that you're going to that needs to be done because like I had a million things to do, but in that moment, you know, as it takes her like literally about a minute and a half to put her glasses on to get them in the right spot in that moment. I just thought I'm so grateful that I get this chance to be here with her. And I think it's just a matter of attitude, and even when they're not nice people, you know what I mean? You know, you could just be like, Well, I'm glad I have the moment to be here with this person and somebody else isn't having to deal with them, you know what I mean? Like there are different ways that you can look for it, but it's good for them, but it's good for you too, because if at the end of the day you are so stressed out about everything that's happening, um, you know, you just it just were it just wears you down physically, emotionally, mentally, all of those things. Um, and I just think if I'm here at this moment with somebody, I just think I'm gonna make the best of it. Um, and you know, we've we've had a lot in the industry to deal with. I don't even want to go back to COVID. Oh my gosh, COVID was this like the just the most stressful time for me. Everything that I was going through in that time. And we've gone from people who really just don't understand what we do. And I feel like we're always kind of like fighting that fight a little bit to try to explain to people why I can't do a pair of glasses for $19.99 and why they should spend a couple hundred dollars more, you know, from me. Um, and just being honest with them, not being, you know, sales you or anything like that, you know. In the end, I'm like, what matters to me is is is that your child gets what they need. You know, I think I can do a better job at it, you know. But in the end, if if if you can't do it or don't want to do it or don't value it, you know, some of that's on me, and some of that's not everybody you can help. You know, you just have to be able to let things go.
SPEAKER_00Right. Well, there's always gonna be that clinical moment. There's always gonna be somebody in the Medicaid moment or whatnot in life where that's all they can do. And and and you know, you can be understanding, but you don't need to compromise on what you're doing or what you're offering or how that's coming through. Um but that you know that tends to be a challenging moment for a lot of opticians. I recently watched uh an optician that her heart was to get the the lowest price to her patients, and her doors were closed. And you know, I'm not here to criticize her and I'm not gonna point her out of her region, but you know, she was located not in a metropolitan place, um, and she was open, but she was all about giving the people a break that were standing there saying what you're saying. Um to me, it's very easy to point obviously much easier now in your location, your new location, to just just point, just just look around. This is a design that costs. Therefore, we pay that forward. You know, we're this isn't you're here to have an experience. You're not here to just uh you know hand the prescription to the pharmacist and get your pills later.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, my goal is they leave and they remember the experience. My goal is, you know, when these kids grow up, they go, you know, I remember when I went and got my glasses and it was it. It was wonderful. It wasn't a sad thing. It wasn't a scary thing. It wasn't people making fun of me. I wasn't forced to get something I didn't want. You know, it was an experience where I met people who cared about me, cared about my vision. They followed me my whole life growing up. And now here I am with my own two-year-old or three-year-old, and they need glasses. And I look at it like wow. So they're gonna look back at it and think it's positive. They'll take that positive experience, whether they come see me or not, and they'll pass that on to their child. And you know, it lasts. That like you mentioned, like that kindness and um those opportunities, they last.
SPEAKER_00Well, uh the kindness has to I hear a lot of triads, I hear a lot of you, parent, child. And if you're not leading into kindness with both of those directions, even when someone's not kind, because we were just talking about that. That's part of it too. I I certainly remember in my mobile optician days putting glasses on a woman who told me she hated me. She was screaming in my thoughts, she would close her eyes when I was trying to measure her pupil distance. She was just mean. Um and it was, you know, it almost became comical. It almost became like a show where the people around were watching how we went back and forth with this. And I knew full well the woman that I was looking at was in a severe dementia state, was not like this. This wasn't her. It was just a moment, you know. They were hoping to bring a little clarity into her life because she wasn't kind. And I think if they could get her a set of glasses in front of her, maybe she would be a little bit more kind in the in the ward that she was in. But you know, so you're dealing with the opposite end of the you know, the the early the early stage people that some people are skeptical and just not kind or whatever. That's what you're gonna deal with. But how you deal with it, how you deal with that energy coming towards you and what's coming back out of you, to me that's everything. Was that the origins of truffles? I mean, how did the truffles begin out of that? Or no?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, so truffles, uh, you know, she's just an office cat. We've had many office cats, you know, throughout the years, hermit crabs and things like that, which I think are great. Kids love that sort of thing. And truffles was very, very smart. I taught her to do high five, and um, you know, she would jump up or down and she would wave and say hi, and she's very smart. And I just had this like really crazy idea, and I was like, well, I wonder if she'll put glasses on, like, because she would come out and give the kids high fives. And I was wondering, and she was about six months old, you know, just a little kitten. I was wondering, like, well, maybe I could get her to wear glasses and she could come out and show kids how to wear glasses. And uh, so I did. I fit her with, you know, newborn infant glasses, real glasses, and made sure they didn't hit her whiskers funny. And I gave her all the attention that I would for a new for a baby, you know, and I put them on her and I gave her a treat, and she was like, Oh, this isn't so bad, you know. And then I taught her how to take them off, and so that became something I did at the office. I'd be like, Oh, you want to see truffles will wear glasses, and the kids would like, what? And you put them on, and then she the you know, the kids would laugh and they would think it'd be so fun, and they would just immediately just connect with her in a way that I couldn't connect with them, or something that would just take me so long to connect to them. So, here in about five seconds, um, she all of a sudden got an 18-month-old to put glasses on because she did it, you know, and I was like, wow, this is so easy. So that's kind of how we started it. And one of our patients um was in a group on Facebook and had such an amazing experience with truffles, and their truffles made the biggest difference in their life, and so they read they did a post about it, and that post just like went crazy. Um, and that's I found out about it because they had, you know, tagged the office in it and everything. Um, and that was the beginning of truffles. Um, so I was faced with a decision at that point am I gonna like sell truffles or make truffles cartoons or you know, it's just very, very popular, really, really quick. And um, I felt like the only thing to do that would really be true to who she was was to start the truffles to kitty organization so that truffles could meet kids. Yeah, there you go. Outside of the office and all around the world, you know, uh because cats famously don't like to travel too much, but through the power of the internet, she can meet people.
SPEAKER_00Talk about the reach there. How many followers? And and do you know do you have any idea demographically where most of the following is of course?
SPEAKER_03Um I think right now the majority is the United States, and I think Britain might be, or it it kind of fluctuates that sometimes, so she'll kind of take off in a certain territory, like Germany. She was like really popular for a while. And so she's been um, you know, she's been in a ton of magazines, she's been in People Magazine, Time magazine. Um uh um, she's been in Women's World two times. She's been on television, she was on Access Hollywood, she was uh in the morning show in Australia, she was on a game show in Germany, like she was just like on all of these like crazy, crazy things, you know, and that popularity is great. Um, but to be able to kind of keep that, you know, narrowed in on what we're focused on, which is children and their vision and encouraging them, you know, all around the world. Uh so I think I got sidetracked there and everything that she was on, but yeah, I mean that's kind of you know how the organization started and you know how she got the opportunity to to kind of go you know around the world and meet kids.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And again, the the idea of of knocking some of the stigma down, the fear, yeah, any anything to remove some of that from the experience of getting glasses. We we we talked about this a moment ago, that being in the industry, we tend to get a little removed from how bad a day it is when somebody gets a prescription. Oh, you need glasses, you know, and and you're dealing with very different circumstances, obviously, primarily. Um not not not just with children, but with with circumstances that children specifically have to deal with and whatnot. Um let's shift real quick and talk a little bit about the legislation that because you and I were both on the legislation to that we're putting together to introduce, hopefully this fall, in the state of Pennsylvania to make Pennsylvania a certified state. In this legislation, there would be a state board that would be formed and uh governor appointed. Um and we talk a little bit about this. So you know, what is there what would you like to see, you know, that you saw in New York that you to make sure that it gets included here? And what came up before, like, no, I'll leave right into it, was apprenticeship. Yeah, absolutely. Talk a little bit about that if you would.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I mean, I started as an apprentice in uh the state of New York. I feel like the apprenticeship program, and I've apprenticed many opticians here in the state of Pennsylvania.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03I I feel like that's where you know passion is shared. Um, I feel like you can't learn in school the things that you can really learn in real life and learn from somebody who's really had their hands into things and the dynamics of different relationships and dealing with patients and those types of things. So for me, I really would love to see a robust apprenticeship program eventually here in the state of Pennsylvania as we move, you know, from uh, you know, certification and maybe hopefully eventually into licensing in Pennsylvania. I I feel like understanding what opticians do is probably our biggest battle right now, making sure that not only senators and you know representatives understand this, but that the public really understands what we do. Everybody I've talked to, I've talked to hundreds and hundreds of people, every one of my patients, you know, every parent, I asked them if they knew that Pennsylvania, that you have no requirements to be an optician in the state of Pennsylvania, and they are completely floored by this fact, you know. And some of them will go, oh yeah, I believe it, um, because they've had bad experiences, and others will be like, What? I cannot believe that at all. You know, even my hairdresser needs to have a license. How does how does an optician who makes the glasses not have a license?
SPEAKER_00Right. There's all these weird champion, you know, there's a huge champion movement to say, you know, oh, somebody cutting hair shouldn't have a license. You know, I think anybody with a sharp object near my head should have a license. Um, no, I mean that very sincerely. Pretty much, you know. Uh, you know, very, very sincerely, you know, somewhat by default. Here we are, oh, let's let's become certified that climate's perfect. Here's when the UOA is stepping in helping us through the process. Here's your people you need to talk to. Um right alongside that, somewhat inadvertently, and certainly here in Philadelphia, uh, there will be an optician program in a charter school downtown. Um there's better resources for them to have a two-year program. So here we are introducing something, and I heard you just seconds ago mention licensure because that's where you're from. Uh the state was licensed in New York, they handled it that way. Um I I think education kicking in with certification is going to be huge, but right, at the same time, having a a potentially two-year program, this could happen kind of rapidly where we're moving quickly through certification into the licensure. And there were when we very first started the board of you know, the opposition association foundation of Pennsylvania board back in 23, we certainly, at least my memory, uh, you know, was the the licensure was was way, way, way down, way off the the radar. There were plenty of people involved at that time that recall the introduction, the effort to become a licensed aid in Harrisburg that was a tremendous failure, I don't know, 30 some years ago or something like that. So, you know, I guess the you know, the licking of the wounds is is gone, or a lot of people have shifted out or the you know, retired or whatnot. But at the end of the day, the steps are kind of it could happen faster than we think. Uh but you know, we're still looking at a few years out before we're even seeing the certification taking place on the ground. But there's you know, I want to say there's six or seven hundred ABO opticians in uh PA, uh in a PA's big state. But uh that's a lot at the end of the day. And and then if these people are practicing, and even if they're uh semi-retired, some of them are interested in education. They want to find out what's going on. Opticians stay interested. Um there's a bunch of opticians involved, certainly on LinkedIn and other forums, absolutely opticians on Facebook, that are uh older and retired or semi-retired, or even in other industries, which I find interesting. Um I think that that's a a huge you know tip of the hat, a positive sign, you know, of the work that is being done. But you're right, it is kind of surprising that people didn't that there was no that you can talk to other professionals and they and they think, gosh, there's no requirement at all to do anything. You know, but I want to talk about this because I talked about it with Michelle and and and and you know I think that you were strong catalyst in this to say make grandfathering uh in this legislation the way that it ought to be. So, in other words, of course we want you to in six or eight months or two years become certified. But the reality is a 70, 80-year-old optician who is still practicing is not gonna do that. And not go for I'm I'm gonna say even somebody in their 50s. You know, if they've been practicing for a long time and they're not, they if you want to put it in as registered or however we distinguish the two, you know, you're a master optician. That there's nothing to me, that is a a proud thing to say. But what does that mean to uh a patient? What does that mean to other opticians? You know, I I don't know that. So I think as we do this, how the scaling goes, what the goals are, what's involved, and how they relate to patient care, not me.
SPEAKER_03Right, yeah. Yeah. I think that that's you know, that that's the goal is to make sure that anybody who is doing the job as an optician uh is somehow registered with the board so that we can um, you know, make sure that they're doing the job well um in the way it should be done. Uh when when it comes to those who are being grandfathered in, I mean, these people have put in a a lot of time. And I I'm a firm believer is you know, we can't really legislate the past, we can only, you know, regulate and you know move forward into the future. So I don't want to cause any harm to them. It's not their fault that Pennsylvania didn't have these requirements when they started, and they've invested a lot of time in their communities and invested a lot of their life into people that they care about and have provided for them. And so I don't think that they should be just you know counted out um or forced at this point to become you know certified just you know to register with the state. Um, and you know, eventually, you know, those guys are gonna be gone and and and the new people coming up, those are the people we need to make sure that they understand what they're doing and and can do it well and really serve our communities well because there is um you know, unfortunately, if you don't know what you're doing, you're gonna make a mistake, and um that mistake can really hurt people. I mean, we we always say, like, oh, it's you know, nobody's gonna, you know, die from wearing the wrong pair of glasses. And but, you know, I work with children, and if you put those lenses in the wrong eyes, which I have seen a few times, um that can really affect their vision and their ability to develop vision. So, I mean, and everybody is different, you know, somebody wears glasses wrong. I mean, there's just and to me, it doesn't really matter um if somebody has a traumatic problem from it or not. The the the thing is that the person performing these duties did not understand what needed to be done, right? And so that should be on us as a profession to make sure that we uh have um opticians that are doing what needs to be done and understand what they're doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I the the well the biggest thing that that I've seen popping up recently uh are because and and I don't I don't know what's driving this, by the way. I don't I don't know what's driving uh the the the the lack of a perception of need or for value uh for the optician. But I've I ran into a woman a few weeks ago who you know just talking, and I'm like, you know, what's up with your glasses? And she's like, Oh, I got these somewhere else and put my lenses in them. And I'm like, you're not seeing so well, why are you? Because I can visually tell she's got right and left switched. I can just look and tell, you know.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it's not yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's a xyle frame, so you can go, you know, hey, do you mind if I switch these for you? You know, I'm an optician. I'm we're not in any professional setting, but may I save this woman's life? I I don't know the difference between the two, but she's walking around left for right. And here's the reality the reality is that afterwards I you know, I honestly believe by dinner time she'd totally forget the entirety. And um again, what value are we presenting? What are we instilling in them? You know, because I and I certainly didn't do it as if, oh, you got me ding that could be fixed this for you. I didn't that wasn't my attitude, but it was very obvious that she had the lenses switched because you could see the shape was a little bit off. And or the other one, and this is an entire show, we won't go too far down this road, but the other one is people uh 3D printing broken glasses, and uh you know that uh what I just said is happening. You know that people are switching left for rights, or just or just in general, because how many shapes look very identical? The frame that you have on right there, it's not perfectly round, but it could certainly be easily, yeah. If you don't know what you're doing, absolutely. Um so again, you know, there's there's ways for us to make this a friendly thing. Um, I don't want to go too far down the weird marketing road, but I I tend to enjoy the subtle humor. Yeah, uh like the spec saver ads and things like that, where people are just flagrantly yelling at the wrong person or something like that because they can't see or whatever. But it's you know, to me, if we can make it fun, uh I think that we'll connect a little bit better because getting back to that kindness. It there's a reason you and I talk about kindness, and it's because in some rooms it's missing. And you know, we're not gonna go down that road heavily and hard, but it kindness wins every time. And um at least that's what I believe. It certainly tends to tends to rain true because people are gonna be more up to listen when when I think that that's happening, which is huge. Um, lastly, you have a a board of directors position.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, at the Truffles the Kitty organization. Yes, we are uh looking to increase our board. So anybody's interested, they can um send their resume to tko at trufflesthe kitty.org. Um, we are looking for people to help us just bring truffles uh batter to kids in the community. We have a lot of outreaches, a lot of different programs. Uh we do pretty good with them, you know, they get all around. But you know, we're looking for people more like not on the internet, but more like boots on the ground kind of people who will come in and you know help us uh close to the midstate, basically.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03We'd love to have somebody here in Pennsylvania, a couple people here in Pennsylvania, but you know, we're looking we'd want to have some sort of optical understanding background sort of thing. Um and you know, can help us sort of reach people at different levels because Troubles has so many different programs, you know, that can help doctors' offices that, you know, maybe they're not, you know, social media uh heavy. I mean, it I feel like that's kind of changing a little bit. You're starting to see some of that in a lot of offices who share Troubles' posts and stuff like that. I agree.
SPEAKER_00I I agree. And I again I think you know, some of it's writing on coattails because they just don't know what to do. But at the end of the day, the messages are constant. There's there are themes that we all support, we believe in, we believe in early eye care, and that's a whole other hour that we could spend because there's other legislation that has nothing to do with what we talked about. Yeah, uh specifically for regulating early care, early eye care for children in the city of Pennsylvania. Yeah, early eye care, yeah. And I think the implications of that uh through uh not just Medicaid but other other uh other implementations of well are going to be it's going to enable people that you're um you know beginning to work with that have knowledge, they're gonna have some understanding because just because eyes are developing once you're born doesn't mean the care should start later. And you know Tony Summer and a few others on LinkedIn again, care should be happening in when a child's born. Why it is why is there not an ophthalmologist there? Why? There are and automatically and handstands.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there are for like premies and stuff like that, but there really aren't, you know, early on. And I think people still have a little bit of that idea that eyes go bad as you get old, that that it's not a person and not a something that can happen as a young child. And what I see more and more these days are parents who don't wear glasses at all, and now their child needs to wear glasses. And boy, they need a lot of help understanding, you know, why they need to wear glasses, and you know, just the very basics that you might take for granted of cleaning and and caring for the glasses that a parent who's never worn glasses their whole life uh doesn't really know, you know, how am I gonna get my child to wear glasses? I don't even know what it feels like to wear glasses, you know. I don't even know what the experience is like, and now I have to help my two-year-old, my four-year-old, you know, through this process. Um, and you know, that's like a whole other area of ways that that we need to help people.
SPEAKER_00I agree. Um the most upset I've ever been as an optician was you know, dispensing the minus fours to the seven-year-old and looking at two parents without glasses and going, you know, how how long was he holding stuff like this before you had some clue that your child couldn't see? You know, and I'm angry because he's lost two or three years of little league, but you know what? That's not my I can't fix that. So no sense in being angry. I need to just swallow that, get on. You got clear vision going forward, get on with it. And again, there was no Malicious intent. It was just clueless. It was just parents' face and phone, blah blah blah, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. It probably never occurred to them, you know, that he would have a vision issue because they don't have any vision issues, you know. The only people in their family who wear glasses were probably grandma and grandpa, you know. So they probably don't have any of that. Of course, with myopia really being, you know, um, you know, becoming so prevalent in our society, you know, we are getting kids myopic whose parents were not myopic. Um, of course, we have parents who are myopic and their kids are too, but you know, I do feel like we see, and a lot of that is because we do have a great way of meeting kids and giving them eye care at young ages. We can improve and we can definitely do better. Um, but we do have devices like the the spot photo screeners and stuff like that that helps us uh take helps a general person with who doesn't have a lot of eye care uh knowledge can um perform a quick screening and identify some issues before a child can talk, um, maybe before the child's eye starts to turn or any of those types of things. Pediatricians are doing these. It used to be you didn't get your first um vision screening until five or six, you know, if you could tell do letters and stuff like that. Talk about that.
SPEAKER_00So talk about that technology. So it's it's it's easily accessible for yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I mean uh so here in Pennsylvania, the Pennsylvania Association for the Blind does vision screenings in preschools. Uh so they're they're hitting, you know, one and two year olds, and they can, you know, do that screener testing. It can identify, you know, possible amblyopia, it can identify astigmatism. So hard to find astigmatism in little kids. It's important to correct it at a young age and to follow it regularly. Of course, the far-sightedness and the nearsightedness as well. Um so that technology, I think, has been a game changer in getting young kids identified so that they can get the proper correction that they need to continue to grow and develop vision properly, so that when they're seven, eight, and nine, they're seeing well and able to see well, as opposed to not being able to catch it at an early age, where that vision may never really go up to the levels that it could be.
SPEAKER_00Or how overwhelming it can be to suddenly put on your you know, four-cylinder lenses, like, whoa. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I always tell kids they're they're usually like you know, usually when you put that astigmatism correction for the first time, you know, they look down at the floor and it's like you know, and I'm like, and they look down at the floor and they're like afraid to make make a move. And I and I'll say to them, I'll be like, Oh, does the floor look funny? And they'll be like, Yeah, and I was like, Does it look like a slide or a mountain? And they'll be like, It's a slide. And I'm like, Oh, cool, you got the slide. That's great. Now the slide's gonna go away, so just enjoy it while it's there. And I'll tell you what, the kids they just take that and they're like, Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, again, it how you approach it, uh, how how it's made that's I think it's huge.
SPEAKER_03And there's there's recognizing, affirming, that's what you gotta do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, and you and I have talked a lot about the psychology of of of glasses in previous interviews, and and and just just whenever you know, whenever I have a chance to go there with you. Because to me, I don't know, the psychology part of it is huge. We talked very briefly before we were recording about people dealing with very poor vision and and how this the psych the psyche has to take a little bit of a different approach from the optician in that you know there's a different level of sensitivity when you know people aren't going to get vision back.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, again, how how that's handled and how how you how you address it is part of the skill or the art of building being.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And back to my new location, you know, we have a soft sensory room in our location. Uh, and it's so nice to be able to take kids who just need a little bit quieter environment, some kids who kind of just need to like know what the steps are that's gonna happen, um, and to take them into a place that is just quiet. It's you know, it's it's our library in the town. So we have lots of books about wearing glasses and things like that. And we have uh therapeutic teddy bears that are all weighted and you know, just sensory types of items for kids, you know, maybe on the spectrum who just need like something to fixate on, you know, while we're doing what we need to do. You know, maybe I'm measuring a PD and they just need to have something that you know makes them feel secure and and feel safe. Um, and that was one of the things we were able that that I was really excited to be able to offer in in our new location, and um, as well as other things, but you know, I I feel like everybody is different and just kind of meeting them where they're at. And I never know the child who's gonna walk in the door, you know. I try to get some information sometimes when they schedule, but you know, you never know. You like on your schedule, it's like I have an 11-year-old coming in, but that 11-year-old could be on a respirator, in a wheelchair, the 11-year-old could have hearing aids or no ears, or you know what I mean? Like you just never know what's coming in the door, you know. You can't really take a person and um put a person on the schedule. If you have a name and a date, date of birth, and you know what they're there for, but that's about it. So you just gotta be ready to to receive them wherever they're at, and that that's part of having an environment that I'm so blessed to have this environment that I can know that I can meet kids wherever they're at.
SPEAKER_00I I actually think that uh you're one of the rare circumstances where less is more as far as like who's coming in, you know, because you you're you're a big believer in the wiping out the preconceived notions. You know, the more info I'm looking at, the the the the less um the less I'm gonna ask, maybe. Um I don't know if that's true or not, but um but it I don't know. I think it's a very unique approach, and I think it speaks to the one-on-one with that individual.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and we all kind of struggle for that, I think, sometimes. And um, you know, I do sometimes get that, you know. Well, I just want to come in, people say, I just want to look at glasses. Do I have to have an appointment? Yeah, you do. Like, like I'm not gonna be offended. Like, I don't get offended by that anymore. I used to be like, wait, you don't just look at glasses. Have you any idea how much work I do to help you look at to just look at glasses, you know? Um, like your child walks in the door, and I I I did a blog on this on my post, and like, you know, okay, I have 500 frames on the board, and I'm already like zeroing down like what frames I think are gonna work for your child, you know, based on how they look and what their prescription is and all that kind of stuff. And like that stuff that needs to be done, you know, you don't just look at glasses, you know, you're you're getting a very important um item that's gonna be with your child their whole life, you know, all the time, every day. You know, it's very important that you have my help, you know.
SPEAKER_00Again, the what's being sold isn't a pair of glasses. What's being sold is the the environment, the technique, the understanding, the listening.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and the knowledge that comes from being an eye care professional, you know, and that's what opticians are. We are eye care professionals, you know.
SPEAKER_00Oh, completely. And what and and we know uh the value of that, we know the the infringement upon the perception of the value of that. But I think what what better place to start than with the work that you're doing? Because your your impressions are not only uh going uh across the optical world, but with anybody who's ever been through your practice and left seeing clearly as a parent, uh as a child, you know, that uh it's an experience, and you treat it that way. Um so I in my in my mind, that and again, here we are, give me three steps, you know, and you're like doesn't work that way, Pete. Well, I'm sorry, I can't do it, you know. Um but but but there's always gonna be that tug of war. There is always gonna be that tug of war where the industry just wants a one, two, three. Um digital digital technology was very similar. When digital technology arose, you know, even to this day, we have a grip of visual acuity booster points and how many are across the back surface of lenses and stuff like that. We understand the compensated difference between a digital, what we're reading, and what the doctor is today, you know, what's going on? Why is it there? How do we work with it? Which leads us to like stuff like the stellus uh lens, because you know, as we learn how to work with it, and you hit it on you hit it earlier, it's a process. You're not selling a thing. Uh you're selling an experience and a process, and this is how we do it with it. Um so yeah, you do need an appointment.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you do need an appointment, you know, and I think in the end though they'll they'll recognize why, right um, but they they certainly first come in with that, like, oh, like I, you know, what do you mean I need I just want to look at glasses?
SPEAKER_02Oh like, okay, I've got my work cut out for me. I'm gonna make sure you understand. You don't just look at glasses on the end.
SPEAKER_00This is where the evil side of me is like, uh, I'll give you a website and you can send them to it, and it will have an optician waiting for you. I mean, that's what we do. But it's I mean, it it is there is a lot of truth to um to what we just said. It is not a thing, uh, it's a process.
SPEAKER_03And um, it's an experience, it's an adventure. You know, all of one. Anytime you work with the public, it's always an adventure, you know. And I think, you know, we we we are medical professionals, we we have eye care professionals, um, but we also deal with the public and we get them on their best days, we get them on their worst days. Um, you know, in the end, you know, you just try to be that that stable person that they interact with.
SPEAKER_00And let's not lose sight of the fact that we happen to be in in our professional careers while legislation is being formulated. Um and that whether we planned it or not, we're we're leading the way uh for what is going to happen across the country. Um I'm excited about that.
SPEAKER_03I really am. I'm excited about what's happened. It's exciting to be an optician in Pennsylvania right now. It really is. It's exciting to see the potential and the things that can happen. You know, I feel like certification, you know, is really the first step. Uh, I feel like we can do a lot if we have a state board. We can do a lot to help educate our communities about the work that we do, how valuable it is, how important it is, and how it affects their everyday life. Um, and we have an opportunity to, you know, raise the bar here in Opticianary to make a standard for everybody to live up to, um, a standard of expectations, so that our you know, our communities can expect this from the opticians that are here in Pennsylvania. So it is exciting. Um, it's you know, a lot of work going on, um, but it is exciting, and this is our first time in a long time that we've got some you know real possibilities of of making something like this happen. So that's why I decided to be, you know, involved. And I know you too, Peter. I know you feel exactly the same way.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so it is exciting, uh hard work, uh, but very exciting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, the hard work's always going to be there, and that's okay. Uh but again, you know, there's uh it's kind of funny how by default we're we're stumbling into, oh, we just happen to be leading the way with certification. Oh, look, there's a potential two-year program developing in in Philadelphia. It's happening fast, exciting as heck. Um, and the technology that is uh coming down the tubes is it's just awesome.
SPEAKER_03You know, you so much technology in optionary, it you know, it has changed so much. I mean, I still love the good old like you know, hand faceting lenses.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I love that was like my favorite thing to do, you know, in facting back in the eight nineties, early nineties when fastening was like really popular and all the tints and stuff like that. You know, the artistic side of me really, really enjoys that.
SPEAKER_00That yeah, the facet works and the the blue rose tints, and you know, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03I mean, yeah, but you still have a lot of that with our new machinery, with different shapes of lenses and stuff like that. So there's lots lots of things that that you know an optician can do um that you'll never get online, you know, you'll never get somebody being able to buy something like that online. Um would you get glasses you can see out of? Maybe, um hopefully. Um but you know, if you want something special or you have a high prescription, I mean you just you can't they can't provide that kind of service well enough online. It's it they just really can't.
SPEAKER_00Not only that, um there's uh there's opportunities for all kinds of clever, you know, repair seminars, uh different types of CEs to connect uh online work, uh online verifications. I mean, these things are happening, they're formulating, they're in place, and it's exciting. You know, you're right. It's definitely an amazing time to be an optician, and and in Pennsylvania is is is where to be right now. So yeah, uh the Dimitri and I were joking about that after the last interview. He's like, what's in the water there?
SPEAKER_03I'm like, we have passionate opticians here in PA. I think that's something you know I that I enjoy. I love uh talking and speaking with other opticians in Pennsylvania. Um I go and meet all of my opticians in my area where you know we we help each other, we support each other. Um, whether they're independent opticians, you know, working down the road or they're opticians working at you know multi-locations who do their job, you know, we um, you know, we talk to each other. I love to go out and meet them, tell them what I do. I'm like, hey, if I can help, let me know. You know, it's nice for me to know if I can send somebody to you and support each other. But I feel like overall opticians in the state of Pennsylvania, and maybe because we didn't have licensing, we had a lot of passion for supporting each other because that's where the support comes from, you know, and I wouldn't want to lose that with this bill either. And I think that you know, that's something that's that I don't think we will either. I think that is something that will just give us more opportunities to reach out, you know, beyond my you know, five-mile drive.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think that and you've always lived in this lane of you know working very closely with optometry and ophthalmologists that are right around you. But um, you know, I think uh to have that involved at the state board level. And but before we wrap up, let's talk briefly about that. You know, obviously this legislation would create a state board, governor appointed, and uh the seats on that board vary d dramatically, but there's still predominantly in independent opticians on that board.
SPEAKER_03Correct me if I think there is an independent optician, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that was really important. Well, yeah, uh but as well as uh a higher certified optician as well on the board, right? That was the other thing. An independent optician, two other opticians, and um a uh uh somebody from outside.
SPEAKER_00Somebody from outside.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, somebody from outside that has no um you know optical influence uh one way or the other, uh an optometrist or ophthalmologist, and also a um retail chain representative.
SPEAKER_00And again, any table where all those people are sitting together should be good. It should not be bad things.
SPEAKER_03But it is primarily optician, you know, the the board is more than 50%, uh which we had to kind of get there opticians on the board. I felt like that was really important. We can always benefit from having somebody that's um has more knowledge, uh, not just certified, but you know, advanced or master certified. And you know, uh we are uh to me, I think being very gracious about having an optometrist or ophthalmologist on the board as well, too, so that um we can hopefully, I mean, we work together, so we need to uh we need to work together.
SPEAKER_00Well, they're they're the insurance processing agent of what we do, and um yeah, completely. I think that it's a good place to start. It's not as if this board's gonna be slamming a gavel and forming legislation. I think what hopefully what they're there to do is help the existing people and I care uh at all different levels and to elevate every aspect of what we do. Uh that is the crux of the biscuit. And uh I think I think that we're heading in the right way. Uh or in the right direction, the right way, I guess is a better way of putting it. And and it's exciting, like you said. Yeah, it is exciting. We've managed to get for an hour. So thank you so much, Danielle. Uh this has been another episode of Aptometry Profits Revealed. I'm your host, Peter Preck. There will be links uh to the Troubles the Kitty organization. Uh certainly information about a child's eye, a child, a child's eyes, and any other information that you want me to share, please let me know, Danielle.
SPEAKER_01Okay, thanks.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much, everybody. If if any of the technology you're interested in, uh if you want to answer our quiz, I'd greatly appreciate it. We'll get back with you and give you an idea of where you stand technology wise. Thank you so much, everybody. Have a great week.