Optometry Profits Revealed with Peter Precht

Embracing Technology and Human Connection in Opticianry with Dean Thompson

• Peter Precht • Season 2 • Episode 6

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In this episode, Peter Precht sits down with Dean Thompson, a seasoned optician with over 40 years of experience, to explore the evolving landscape of optical industry technology, education, and the vital importance of maintaining human relationships. As they discuss AI, refracting skills, industry collaboration, and strategies for future growth, listeners gain actionable insights into staying relevant and effective in a rapidly changing field.Key topics:

 

  • How AI can enhance patient engagement and operational efficiency without replacing human touch

 

  • The significance of hands-on practical training and education models for opticians

 

  • Differences in refracting capabilities and regulations across Canadian provinces

 

  • The impact of online virtual try-on technology and access challenges in diverse geographic regions

 

  • The future of industry collaboration between optometry, ophthalmology, and opticianry

 

  • Strategies for identifying niche markets and managing profit bleed through technological tools

 

  • Reflections on recent innovations, from blue light filtering to equipment upgrades, and their medical relevance

 

  • The importance of mentoring, industry camaraderie, and passing on knowledge to new generations

 

Timestamps:00:00 - Introduction to Dean Thompson and his extensive optical career
 02:48 - The role of AI in improving the patient experience and reducing mundane tasks
 04:37 - Resistance within the industry to new technology and the importance of balance
 07:07 - The Canadian refracting landscape and regional licensing differences
 09:10 - Industry collaboration and advocates for a united health care team
 12:04 - How AI can assist with inventory management and patient data analytics
 15:37 - Common challenges in global optical practices and solutions for developing markets
 19:36 - The influence of online marketforces and the Serengeti model's challenges
 23:00 - Educating new opticians: practical training, mentorship, and certification pathways
 27:21 - Dean’s passion for passing industry knowledge through his Eye Care Coach program
 30:55 - The deep personal satisfaction of opticianry and maintaining industry integrity
 35:17 - The impact of emerging technologies like AI and the importance of human oversight
 39:06 - Myths of blue light filter products and the importance of medical validation
 43:14 - Leveraging AI for patient engagement and marketing strategies
 48:17 - Comparing AI analysis versus human expertise in assessments and diagnosis
 53:45 - The future of specialized procedures like RGP lenses and industry niche markets
 58:06 - Building beyond licensing: creating pragmatic, tiered learning pathways
 62:05 - The potential for international collaboration, shared challenges, and passing the torch
 64:13 - Closing thoughts: the importance of unity, innovation, and mentorship in the industryResources & Links:

 

  • Eye Care Coach - Dean Thompson's platform for industry mentoring and education

 

 

 

 

 

 

Connect with Dean Thompson:

 

 Dean Thompson | LinkedIn

 

This episode underscores the critical balance between technological advancement and human relationship building to propel the opticianry industry forward. Tune in to explore practical strategies for future-proofing your practice and supporting industry growth.

Dean Thompson
Eye Care Coach
https://www.eyecarecoach.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/eyecarecoach

Talk with Peter Precht: www.eyecclearly.com

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to another episode of Thomas Tree Prophets Review. I'm your host, Peter Brick. Today I'm with Dean Thompson, a 40-year veteran that started in the same place that I did in the same year. Dean is the I guy. He is in Calgary, Albert. He's had his own place over the years. He's worked at several different colleges. And uh and actually you mentioned in different schools as well across that and speaking teaching over the years. And uh you've been with Costco for the last 20 years. Without any further ado, thanks to him for being here. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03

Thanks for inviting me, and thanks for uh sharing uh your valuable time with me today.

SPEAKER_00

Well it was obviously surprising to find out that we have the exact same beginning. At the time that we started Lens Crafters, the teaching material was fantastic. And and how we started off our conversations were that we both fell into this by default, which I think is in large measure what as we had down the end of our career that we want people to fall into this and fall in love with being an artistic. So education is something that we that I do want to get into with you. But let's talk briefly about the about the Nigerian gentleman again, the symposium that they had just put together recently. What was that called? Like what were they talking about? It was over several days or several days.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it was uh symposium, uh so it's called Vision 2026. They had a few different speakers on sort of different topics that are relevant for today's optical industry. And you know what was my my part was kind of where where does uh AI inter intersect with those things that we should keep at the forefront? And that would be customer experience and using the AI for relieving those mundane things that that pull us away from the customers. You know, like 80 80% of the optician's time should be on the sales floor, interacting with patients, educating and and helping them with their eye care needs, not filling out reports and doing that mundane stuff that I know I try to avoid.

SPEAKER_00

Um they become tech technique changers too. How do you stagger what you're able to do? How do you take criticism from AI? How do you implement it? You know, those those become those become challenges at a at a level, at an intrapersonal level inside of a practice and you know, systems is a good good way to do it, but talk about resistance, talk about resistance to that type of technology. Uh in that did did anyone in the forum talk about that? Was that a topic? Or was it more about looking at the technology and thinking, okay, what do we like? What do you know, what do we not like, what do we not like?

SPEAKER_03

Uh yeah, you know what? Uh there was there was one gentleman that the taught it was pretty much all on the what AI is, what it can do, and all that great and glorious things uh that it can do and and sh you know will do. And and I I guess I was the the the bridge between some of the speakers as you know, I I I'm for AI, you know, in its place, right? Use it as a tool. And I think it can be used very effectively as a tool in multiple different areas, but it should not ever replace what the optician is supposed to do, right? It can't tell what somebody's thinking, it can't look at somebody's face and say, you know, they're stressed out about this. Uh they don't, you know, like how do we explain something on a personal level so that that person gets it? Right. And you know, keeping that human connection, we're the decision makers, not not AI. We're we're the decision makers. We're let's use that as a tool. Let's use it to find out who our patients are, you know, who's coming in, what are they like, what are they dislike, what are what what are all those stats that that we might not be taking, right?

SPEAKER_00

Uh the end of some of the immeasurables.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah, it's like some of the pinch points. I mean, like, you know, you and I are old enough where you know the frame rate comes in and we oh, we like that, we like that, we like that. And and there was no there was no thought as to is that actually gonna sell, right? Who's our patient? You know, so I think AI can help us with that, it can help us be better managers of inventory, better managers of the process. You know, and then you know, I off the camera, we were talking about education. I think for those opticians that are maybe unlicensed or or maybe they're just keen opticians and they want to know more or do more research. I mean, nothing wrong with using AI to help you out with that. You know, and if if you come across something, you ask a question, is like that doesn't sound right. It's just like just ask another format the same question, see what happens, right?

SPEAKER_00

Right. And that is to me, that is an inherent problem here with AI. Regurgitating, you know, your own your own stuff back at you. Back at you. Talk about the difference in the abilities of a refracting optician in Alberta versus the rest of Canada and the difficulty of implementing that. We talked about geography as being a big one, but there are you know there are practicing opticians that refract in Calgary.

SPEAKER_03

Correct. Yeah, there's uh I you know what I think glass count within Alberta, there's 20, 26 refracting opticians, more on the way, because through the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology Optical Program, they they teach refracting. And you know, I was a part of building that course and teaching uh for a time. You know, I think it's it's leads up to accessibility, addresses some of the manpower shortage that we're all experiencing. Allows patients to to get access to prescriptions. You know, Canada's pretty big and pockets of major centers with lots of little guys around. So, you know, some people can travel an hour, half, two hours before they even get to the closest optical clinic, uh whether that's uh doctor driven or a box big box or a chain or whatever. You know, so having that ability to address the those those people is is a good thing. And you know, we have a scope of practice that we we can only go so far, and but we could, you know, like ref if we see something and we're trained to to diagnose certain situations that are up to and and you know beyond our scope of practice, we can recognize. We can't deal with that, but we can recognize it, and that gives us the ability to refer to the appropriate doctor, uh, whether it's an optometrist or ophthalmologist. You know, we have that skill. We're you know classically trained, and uh, you know, so I think it's it's something that's lacking within the optical industry as a whole, and especially in Canada, and I I know other places as I've talked to other people in different countries, is we seem to work independently from each other. So the three O's are independent from each O when we should be uh working together like an iHealthcare team. So similar to you go to the you go to the hospital, you talk to the nurse, the nurse talks to the doctor, the doctor talks to the uh specialist. So uh to treat that person, right? So why aren't we? Right?

SPEAKER_00

It's the truth. It's the truth. I'm pleased with the the legislation and and we're gonna review it tonight as a group. And I think there's you know, I think I'm pretty sure we've even invited John Rooney in from you know Ohio to you know just want to hear as much input from places that are licensed now and certainly from leadership or previous leadership in those associations about how to move forward with opticianry. I'm a big, big fan of connecting in with optometry, obviously. But people are not all in that lane. That there is certainly um trust, you know, to stay separate and strong as opticians, and I think the best way to do it is with the practice owners that are deeply embedded in the existing insurance system, which is deeply embedded in the existing alcoholic design system. So you know we were talking a little bit before about online virtual trial and those types of stores, and how there's a small resurgence back into people going and trying, you know, and being in that venue where is that completely working? Is it is the virtual trial completely working? People are coming back into places to try the product, and there are groups that are embracing a different way of buying at a certain age, but you face some different geo geographical challenges that that may have been similar to the group that you were talking to, not so much Nigerians highly metropolitan, but certainly parts of Africa that have access issues. So it's more than talent, and it's more than just plugging in virtual trial and a store. How do we get the professionals involved at a virtual and realistic level so that we can bridge some of those gaps and connect systems, you know, that exist in partial ways and not in full ways in a lot of places, I would imagine. Just like we talked about with you. Absolutely north of you.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, absolutely. You know, uh I I I think with any technology that's coming out, I I think there's a place for it. Uh and if we utilize the that technology to to offer access to as many people as we can. I mean, you know, I I I've been on quite a few optical missions to the to developing countries, but you know, there there's the obvious pro uh problem is access and and finances, but we still have access problems and finance problems in Canada and probably in the States too. I mean, like definitely. It's it's not an unusual problem. You know, if and if we could uh address the basic needs and then and you know, if if if these technologies identify, oh, there's a person that needs a higher level of care, then it makes it justifiable to for that that for that person, that family, or whatever organization that wants to help the the the underprivileged people get that access. I I think it's a good thing. I mean, we just gotta you know keep keep the the core of the industry is like it's a people industry, it's a you know face-to-face industry. We're there to help manage and eye health issues. So if we're using it and and the the opticians, optometrists, and ophthalmologists are at the end of the line, then you know that there we go. I mean, use it, use technology where it needs to be used, and don't allow it to uh take over the human interaction.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, well, completely. And opticians at the face-to-face level in a dispensary when it comes to frames and discussions and uncovering. Completely understand that. It's it becomes it becomes a relationship, intended or not. I had a conversation more and a week ago with uh Danielle Crowe about a really unpleasant young girl. I really, really mean to her. And, you know, in my mind I'm thinking, at least she had you. And she says it. And no sooner does she go, at least it's me. And you know, like that. You know, as a as dark as a sense of humor can be behind a closed door, and and some of the things that we exchange with one another that are unpleasant. You know, and I don't mean that in a negative way, I mean it in a true way. Sometimes we hear just like I talked about a patient story that can be very unpleasant, or even a situation that can be very unpleasant. How we face that at a one-to-one level in the you know in the dispensary getting less or dispensing less is kind of huge. Talk very briefly about because while we're on that thing with that, especially with the group in Nigeria, you mentioned the issues for opticians are similar to continent to continent. Talk about that. Obviously, access is one.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, access, access is one, and and you know, procedures within within the the clinic. You know, we're we're struggling with getting qualified people, we're struggling with you know the patient experience and and where where is does that break down? Why does it break down? Inventory control issues, and you know, just basic little stuff that that disrupts the business. I mean, you know, uh I'm I'm an eye care coach. So so I I I take the 40 years and I kind of go in and you know, help you out. So it and it's not this format is gonna here's the magic pill. There is no magic pill. It's let's let's it's discovering the journey of you know what's what's going on in your clinic, why it's going wrong, where it's going wrong, and we're saving small percentages here and there, but you add it all up and it becomes a a decent income, right? So in industry-wise, you know, I you know talk to people from the UK, I connect with them, Australia, Nigeria, US, and similar issues in every country. Uh you know, manpower skill sets, inventory controls, you know, how do you deal with the big box guys? You know, uh, how do you deal with staying afloat? I mean, pressure, pressure, pressure on the little guy, the independent. You know, uh, when I was when I had my own store, I I had some friends that worked in the big box, and I, you know, I sold a line of I was Serengateis, and I, you know, I I can get seringate. I couldn't even get them for what they were selling them for to the to the public. So what I did is I just phoned up my buddy who uh who worked at the big box, and I says, okay, go when you have time, just go through all the the the serengitis that you have. And then when people came into my my clinic, uh looking for this frame is oh, I can't get that frame. Sorry, you know, why why would I compete on on price? I'm gonna lose all the time if if you know the big box guys are buying uh you know 1200 frames of one one style, one brand or one model, then how do I compete against that? Even with a buyer discount, I couldn't touch it. So, you know, finding ways to compete and succeed without trying to duplicate what you're seeing in a big box guy, because you're not gonna win.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and even in Serengeti's case. They've had a real challenge. I gotta choose my words carefully here. Well, I know who they deal with online. With online. And it is someone highly, highly removed from the industry. So the the the human interaction and being an optician that you and I have been discussing this, you know, during this interview is completely alien to this channel. He's from another field, he doesn't care. He has a technically a dispensary, but there's no tools at all. You know, but you don't there's no hot box, there's no frame warmer, there's no under there's no understanding of the craft or care tip. You know, because he's got his eight or ten thousand group that he sells for so imagine if you're Serengeti, so you pride yourself on the super high quality, but you're saddled to this as your number one online. It's it's got to be a miserable stinking headache for them. Especially at a lab level.

SPEAKER_03

You know, but what's it doing to their brand?

SPEAKER_00

He believes that he's you know an optician. And he's not in any way, shape, or form. But that points to a lot, too, a lot of what's going on in our industry. Because of the lack of oversight, because of the lack of educational, lack of certified states, certified states. Anybody can do this. Anybody can do this. In a lot of places. In a lot of places. Whether they know anything or not, anything or not. That's not true in Canada. That's not true in Canada.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I mean, you know, in Canada we're all licensed. Although although there is a uh loophole, you know, like some some of the ODs who run their own clinics, they can hire somebody to work underneath their their license. So it it's an unregulated person doing the job of an optician. They just can't call themselves an optician.

SPEAKER_00

But you know, what they're doing, they certainly wouldn't want to refrack anybody if they have no idea what they're known. I mean, you're not gonna keep your doors open if the doors are open, too.

SPEAKER_03

But I think, you know, I think, you know, um, you know, some of the ODs, uh, you know, I think they're short-sighted. I think, you know, by having a licensed optician in the store, that gives us credibility. So, you know, go back to the the nurse, the doctor, the specialist idea is like that gives the whole clinic the credibility, right? You as an OD, you don't have to uh refract and sell from the chair and and gobble up that valuable chair time when you have a fully trained person on the front. Uh, do they all need to be licensed opticians? Maybe not, no, but you know, you should have somebody out there that is skilled enough to to deal with those issues to analyze the the problems of that customer's coming in. Is is this a remake worthy? Where does that problem start and finish? Is it something that can be easily done by an adjustment? And you know, when we when we have untrained or unl uh unskilled people, the the first thing they do is take out the shotgun. Well, let's just remake it and hope it works.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's true. But that causes money. Completely. But if you don't have experience to diagnose, to diagnose. You know, okay, here's the box prescription, here's what I'm looking at, here's the difference, here's why this is happening, this is what we're gonna do. It it may not be just duplicating the problem. You know, and again, these are things that are things that talk learn implemented. It's what we're talking about is practical, you know, use of practical, you know, in practice opticianry. Um talk about that with with the with part of whatever the process may be, because I I don't know and and don't want to get too elementary, but how long is the practical part of becoming an optician in Canada? And uh are there sponsorships that are involved with that? How does that go?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so uh there's a couple formats. So one is um full-time, you're in in the chair uh being taught by an instructor who has been in the business for many years. Uh the other format is uh you work on the job and then do distance ed. So a lot of your stuff is online, and then you're hopefully the person in the clinic that you're at is a mentor that can transfer their knowledge to you. It doesn't work that way all the time. So there's a problem there, uh, you know, for for transferring that in uh that information. And you know, even even if somebody is comes, let's say they're in a full-time course, they come out, you know, and and they've they've done their two practicums with with on the job to to gather that real world experience. You know, I mentored many, many opticians, and I I tell them is look, you know, you're you're coming out, you'll know the you know the basics, you know the good stuff, but it's gonna be another two years before you're good, and then you'll just carry on from there. And it's just like, you know, listen to what the the senior opticians are saying and doing and and ask questions, you know. You know, a lot of us like uh you and I are been around long enough, we've probably forgotten more than we remember. And you know, but if you ask us a question, we'll probably pull it out of the cobwebs and be happy to share, right? So I think you know, even you know, down in the states, I know there's some some states that are unlicensed and unregulated. But there's no there's no reason why those people doing that optical or optician type job should not be eager to learn. There's lots of many places to learn and to build those skill sets and to build up the the industry. I mean, you know, uh if you neighboring state the that's one license and one that's not licensed, I'm sure that the unlicensed state, they're not making the the a great salary.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's definitely a problem in the western half of PA. Uh there'll be people that get their time in and a lot of their practical understanding and knowledge, you know, outside of and north of Pittsburgh, but their whole time they're schooling and studying so they can pass their boards in Ohio and get a job there?

SPEAKER_02

Get a job there?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I mean, why wouldn't you drive an extra 20 miles or even move an extra 20 or 30 or 40 miles away to make another $15 an hour? I think it's a lot. It's a huge, huge, it's a perpetual problem actually for the entire region. And you know, I don't I don't have an answer for that. But I do want to back to the education that you were just talking about. I really want to tip my hat to people that you know maybe weren't my favorite. Very specifically where we are early and and Walmart. Walmart is investing heavily in the education component. Not just externally but internally. They're seeking employees to have you know an aptitude to understand optics and giving them an opportunity to head down that avenue. I love it. I completely love this idea. The earlier we can introduce things that we mentioned this a few minutes ago that you and I had no idea. I had no idea that optician work existed. When I was 18, the summer out of uh high school, I was fortunate enough to actually polish samples. I actually worked as a with metallurgical engineers, and my father worked at Martin Marietta. And part of my duty was the part of polishing samples. So of the 480 some people that applied to work at Lenscrafters, you've got polishing experience. Let's get let's bring him in. And that's exactly how it went. So next thing you know, a year later, my brother's in it, and my brother spent 37 years there. 37 year career. That's one of the neat things about what we do. People do tend to get involved, similar to us. Stay involved. The gratitude of what we do is is deep, it's personal, it's genuine. But teaching others is a little bit of a different thing. Talk about eye care coach right now. Um talk about which your goals are, what you do, how you how you view things.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So uh so you know, I was as I was reaching the end of my career, or something like, you know, I had a a break in between instructing at States and with work, I had to take my holidays, otherwise I get shut down for the holiday season. I had a month off, so I I uh I went to Mexico and and hung out for a month. And I think, you know, what am I gonna do? I mean, you know, I love the industry, I love what I do. How do I take 40 years of acquired knowledge and just hit the flush button? I I just can't do that. So, what can I do remotely that that allows me to be wherever I want to be uh and and still help the industry be better than when we got in? You know, like when we got in, it was just a wild quest. Like, here you go, see you later. You know, so you know, taking that 40 years, so all the things that I've succeeded in, all the things that I failed at and and learned from. So, why should you go through those same mistakes? Why should you go down that road that I know is a dead end and you know, uh do the thumb and lose off the end of the cliff? You know, so what I'm doing is I'm here for the independents, whether they're an optician, optometrist, whatever the case may be. I think the uh the industry is needs to be bigger than you know, holding out the shingle and saying I'm better than you. And and that's not where I am at. Uh I uh there's value in everything that we do, and we have our place, we have our skill sets, but let me use those those things that I've acquired to pass on to you. You know, there there are other coaches out there, there are other coach systems out there that says, Oh, you follow this program and and you'll succeed. And I I think no, I mean no er no two businesses are the same. Why you got into opening up your own uh businesses is your idea? Like, does it is it there to give you and your family more time or or more things to do? Send your kids to maybe you're an optician and you want your your child to to be an optometrist or an ophthalmist, right? You know, so utilizing my my skill sets and mine toolbox of of knowledge for 40 years and passing that on and and being a mentor and sounding board to you and your business. And you know, as a coach, I have no financial interest in in your business, you know, or we'll bounce stuff back and forth, I'll give you my suggestions perhaps, and and or or brainstorm together to create something that's unique to you and carry on. I mean, you know, it's it's about succeeding, it's about leaving this industry better than you and I found it many years ago. And that's you know, that's what we all need to do is is give back to that industry that has given us the career for 40 some odd years.

SPEAKER_00

The relationships are real, are real. They last, they last. The components are neat, are deep. You know, it it's you know it it's it's a moving moment to be a part of when somebody sees clearly or is seen clearly again. It hasn't been. I don't think that that's that's the case overall. I think that people that have an interest to stay in competitionary, they obviously do it for for those reasons, but they obviously have other things that drive them forward too. Let's talk about technology over the course of your career and some goods and some bads, because I always like to ask people, you know, what have you seen now in the past that was great or fantastic, that was new maybe to you at the time? Is there anything now that you want to talk about that's new or bad or ugly today? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, over the years, I mean there's a huge, huge uh variance in in technology from 40 years ago. And you know, I think the good and the bad, uh, I mean, like sometimes the industry is more concerned with marketing than it is medical st medical issues, right? You know, so I mean, you know, like many years ago, uh the one that pops in my head right now is is the blue anti-glare came out. Oh, you know, it's it's you know, like 99% transmittable and and harder to see and less less glare and and then it went away and and then it came back as blue light filter, and you know, uh it's it went through its its cycle, and you know, it's it's definitely my not my uh my thing. I mean, you know, blue light is is uh circadian rhythm driven, so you know, a pair of glasses not gonna fix that, but it it we gotta get down to the medical side of things and and not just creating products to create products, right?

SPEAKER_00

Or you know, I think that's I really thought that they had something, even preliminarily to Blue Tech and these others coming through. In my safety days, there was always an exploration to put tints in front of those that were working graveyard shifts or you know, you're yellowish or whatever, bright and stop them from like wanting to fall asleep. Because everything else in the world is a wide and awake when they're supposed to be sleeping. So you know it's only a certain group of people that that's palatable for, to be quite honest with you. Um you know, and again, they I think they were trying to get the most out of whatever productivity is lower. Most factories actually reduce production in those hours because they know the production dropped. So it's kind of like uh, hmm, does that work better that way? Just do it less when there's people that are half away, or I you know, so there's always been a little bit of an interest in that circadian could connect to higher, but there's never been any constructive proof that it ever did. Like you just said. So your critique is kind of fair. Well, not only that, but the articles that I mentioned as well. I can't say exactly. Like you said, it's that's a different animal. Probably not gonna be fixed with iWare or ADHD or education or something like that. Involved. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

But I you know, I I think technology, I mean, we we have to explore, and but you know, um, you know, if we explore is great, and if we find that it works, great. If it doesn't work, then like just be honest and say it didn't work, right? You know, nowadays with AI coming at every angle, you know, you're either scared crazy about what it can and will do, and some people are afraid that it's it's gonna take over uh the industry. And and I think you know, we we as the industry people and and in all the three O's, I mean, we let's harness that, let's harness it for the good and use it for the good, and and but don't let go of why we're actually here. We're actually here to interact with those patients and to to have that personal relationship with those patients, use technology where it's supposed to be used. Uh, I I don't see AI taking over the industry. You know, uh, we were talking off cameras like uh many years ago, laser surgery came out, it was supposed to wipe out the industry. Obviously, it hasn't, you know, implants are are a thing, they're not taking over the industry, all these things. So, you know, if if I you know, as a business owner, I would look at my business. Where do I need to stop those profit bleeds? Is AI an answer to to prop plugging those profit bleeds? And in what form should it take? You know, I I I've talked to a few people that they're reaching out to me uh because I'm connecting with independent people and they want to use me as a funnel to tout their AI, and that's that's fine. It's always good to me. I mean, I I'm I'm a kind of a techco geek too, and I want to know more, but you know, using it where it's supposed to be used is sort of my reply to them. And it's like, okay, so if we could use AI to identify who needs to be called back, but don't let the computer phone that patient back. You, as an optician or a staff member, need to phone and connect with that person on a personal level. That's what's going to separate you from the rest of the guys.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think of a Saturday where you're arriving and you're listening to messages and a book's full, and that family of four just canceled. You got this big void between 10 and 1. 10 and 1. And you know what? That's what AI score. That's what AI scored. Get those calls, get those calls, hit everybody that was recent. Anybody recently searched. Get them in. Get them in. Fill them. Because the reality is you're gonna be too busy doing other stuff until the dead time is there and it's useless at that point. It's useless for you to be doing the reaching out. So involve AI in a way where you can reach out and you can be involved, like you said, you can be there for the call.

unknown

For the call.

SPEAKER_00

Get everything initially done, get it all lined up so it's just push, fill the void. Push, fill the void. And those are ways that AI is connected. That can happen. That's just a small example, but that's not it. That what I just described doesn't take place. Doesn't take place that I'm aware of. And it should. And it should. But I do think I do think AI do the perception of AI replacing humans. While I don't fear it for our industry, I fear the perception. It's you know, if there's if there's a single thing that that hurts me where I am about AI, it's that. But but but almost like I had talked with in my interview with Dimitri. I take criticism better from AI. Very seriously with podcasting already to go. So I'd rather hear from AI.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you know, uh, you know, I I you know I use AI a fair bit, and uh, you know, I've I've used I use it in creating my content. Here's an idea, let's build it out. And it it it does it does things quicker than you know, like I I don't even know if I would be a coach if I had to do it all by hand. Uh that's true. You know, uh do the heavy lifting, you know. Uh I love to travel. I you know I went to uh Columbia for three weeks and I used AI to plan my whole itinerary. So you know it, it's it's good if used right, if and it's it but it's you know it's scary, perhaps. Uh you know, I don't know. Yeah you don't know. It it's a new thing and nobody knows exactly what it's gonna do or how that's gonna do. But you know, I I I think that the you know the pendulum pendulum will swing and then it will swing back, just like other things within the industry have done. You know, online shopping and you know, all these things, you know, what's this new exciting thing? And then it eventually calms down and it's it finds its niche in the market. But if you're a keen business person and you're looking at your business and say, and you know, how do you how do you survive in that environment? And what do they do? What do they do well, and then how can you counteract that? And same thing with how does the independent uh person compete against the big box guys or the big chains, you know, find out what they do, what they don't do, and there's your niche, right? You can survive quite well with creating a unique niche, and and AI can help you distinguish who your patients are and what their likes, dislikes are it can help you manage your your inventory, manage what you offer your patients. Uh it can track all those, you know. We we sold twice as many female frames as male frames. So next time we order, we're gonna order more female frames. And they've they were this, this, and this. Uh you put all that into your inventory and and and tell AI to search that out. And what's the what's the trend? You'll you'll use that to your advantage as a tool. It's not gonna replace you, but it's gonna allow you to do your job better, hopefully.

SPEAKER_00

It could recraft a very basic message to speak to a group that's more pertinent that you may not realize is right in front of you. Say, for instance, for instance, you know. I mean, obviously, if you had a whole bunch of ranchers, I mean actual ranchers, not like small home ranchers, that that were coming in the club, how much of people are there all wearing hats and boots, and that's what they do. But you know, if you're in an urban environment, that can be that it can be a blurrier picture. So getting that information in a clear way so you know exactly who you're speaking to. You know, you and I were mentioning earlier, mentioning earlier, sometimes you'll think of an inpatient exchange and you can macro. You know, just because you saw two of them in the last sixty days, you know, it's not a trend. It's just you just happen to know this, you know. And that can happen, you know, so you don't want to get swayed one way or the other. So AI has a wonderful use of all kinds of technology uses to guide that shit, guide craft, maybe how you're going to put your next message together just like you were talking about.

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely. You know, and some of my other podcasts that you know, like the the AI note takers, you know. So uh one of my offerings to the people on that that webinar was, you know, take take one of those apps. You're you're they're free for seven days or whatever, you know, and you know, get the permission for the for that patient. Maybe it's a good patient of yours, and you know, like don't mind helping you out to make the clinic better, whatever. And start the recording from the reception desk and all the way through to the final uh payment uh transaction. Uh and then you know, I I was saying, you know, send it to me, I'll I'll analyze it and I'll tell you where you're where you're good, where you're not good. And and but you can you can use AI too, like upload that to AI and say, where could I make this better? How do I how do I make this transaction and this patient journey better without sounding like a robot? You know, we've all there's been a fad out there, you know, the scripting where everybody in the patient everybody in the clinic says the same thing because they think it's consistency is gonna win. But you know, what does that sound like to that patient or patients in the office when they hear the same thing being said ten times? So you're you're just a you're just a number, you're not a person. You're that's going back to that transactional way of thinking, you know, but using using the AI to script and then taking that script and then each optician creating their own way of saying the similar thing, right? So that it's not robotic. Right.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's I think that's that's actually a beautiful screen. And and that kind of connects a whole lot of what we've been talking about to to you know to be able to still have control and still have but to remove some of the mundane. It's oversimplifying it, but that's kind of what you were describing, yeah. I mean it's it's not it isn't quite that simple or that, you know, black or white, but that is a a huge part.

SPEAKER_03

No, but if we simplify it, it it's just un understandable, right?

SPEAKER_00

So right, completely.

SPEAKER_03

You know, and I I think uh, you know, I think AI could uh help with the educational content, right? You know, if if your store is or clinic is is heavy on the new optician or untrained, unlicensed optician, you know, AI is good enough where you're gonna you're gonna get some good answers. I mean, it may not be a hundred percent, but I mean double check, you know, like come in comes in and you don't necessarily want to use AI in front of the patients, but I mean, like, okay, these are the these are the concerns, these are the problems. And you go, you know, Peter, uh, yeah, let me ponder that. Let me touch pace with uh, you know, my colleagues and and we'll get back to you and and then just chat with AI and see what's the the you the diagnosis it gives, and then use it as a tool to learn uh if you don't have a senior optician in your clinic. Uh you know, that could help create some additional education for yourself, right? So um completely.

SPEAKER_00

And if you don't know, you don't know. If you don't know, you don't know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean there's there's there's still stuff I don't know. Right, exactly. Right. Well no question. Well, there's by proximity, I have dealt very limitedly with compound prism in my life. Uh you know, I can count on one hand the number of times that I've data justed and dispensed at that out of a of a doorway. Well, doesn't make me a complete novice, but it certainly doesn't make me an activism. By any. So, you know, there's a lot of different things that are, you know, take it, I want to say take it with a grain of salt, but you know, a lot of what we've been talking about is coming back to the relationship connection, the relationship building, the trust that develops and the ability to carve and create uh scenarios based on that. You just mentioned something really kind of interesting what you were talking about. Well, here's AI's analysis, you know, and then maybe here's mine. That'd be kind of cool. You know, like at halftime when you're seeing the stats of the two teams, you know. That would be kind of cool to be able to, you know, go through a basic assessment process and see what Dean Dean might recommend differently. Recommend differently, or the same, or the same.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, actually, it reminds me of a story of one of my uh colleagues reached out, she was getting back into RGP lenses, and and she reached out to me with a question, and I you know, I don't do RGPs anymore either, and I you know, I think I know the answer. And then uh I you know she sent me a screenshot of of the question, and the answers were A, B, and C. And I go, I took that screenshot up, loaded it to AI, and she's like, uh, which one's correct?

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's a that's a good idea. I shot it back to her, and so this is the answer. Some of the principles aren't the same, it's so much smaller, and getting it in and out is a different animal, you're dealing with kerataconis that and then more than likely. That's different, it's a different animal, you know. No question. I did have the I did have the fortune of looking at a crack as where Doctor probably had to because the RGP layers were different. First of all, it's only they had the cheapest thing in class because they only they popped them out last minute, it was just to get them from the bathroom or whatever. But they also took very good care of the product. Probably for that reason. But yeah, RGP is that's a that's a weird that's kind of an older nature, an older, an older you know, expert. Expert.

SPEAKER_03

Well yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's part of our industry. I mean, uh you know, I I when I was instructing, I mean I had to re relearn some of that stuff too, and just because yeah, you know, you don't use it, you lose it. But the the good thing about being taught is you know, once you start to dive back in, you you start to get rid of the cobwebs in the in the head and you start to, oh yeah, yeah, uh now I get it. You know, I remember this, I remember that. You know, and um you know the you know, we could we could use AI to brush up on what we don't remember. Uh you know what I think, but you know, RGPs are a small niche market. Uh you could do quite well with that if you implemented that into your business. And especially if that uh if your competition around you is not doing it, there's a market for that, right?

SPEAKER_00

I actually think there's a portable market for that. Like I think somebody could go city to city, city and do that. If you're an expert and you're really good at it, there's there's I I think there's few ODs going down the road to deal with it. I mean, it's it it my experience in the practice that I was in where even though there were maybe two or three a month, they were back, especially within the country. So I think that they were a challenging consequence if they went to at all. Finding docs that are finding docs that are on board to deal with something that's a challenge. Routinely. Yeah, I mean it's who wants to deal with monofits, like those monofit docs. There's not many of them either want to do that.

SPEAKER_03

But when you know when I come across a an OD that that that wants to or does uh fit RGPs, I'm I'm saying, why are you doing it and not the optician out front?

SPEAKER_02

That's a good one.

SPEAKER_03

We're making less money, uh, you know, and if chair time is valuable, right? That's that's that's where that's where your money is coming through the door. And if if and RGPs are notorious for multiple visits and multiple chair time uh interactions. So if if we're looking at a business and we're we're trying to maximize profit bleed, that's one area where you could capitalize, you know, train you know that optician. If they haven't done it for a while, then you know there's avenues to to train and there's avenues to learn how to do that well. And you know, I have a good buddy who that's that's all he does is uh assesses RGPs, right?

SPEAKER_00

In Calgary?

SPEAKER_03

There's there's a potential to for for profit.

SPEAKER_00

Is he in Calgary?

SPEAKER_03

Is he is he Yeah, yeah. He's he's been in the business even longer than uh you and I put together. Uh and you know he's he's he works on you know on the side, he's that's his side business. You know, he's got a huge clientele because not that many people deal with RGPs or they're hard to find. And then you gotta find one that knows her stuff, right? So that's his that's his whole side business. Uh you know, three days a week. I think he's he's working RGPs and scolarols.

SPEAKER_00

A number of years ago, I've come across a gentleman down in Maryland whose entire I mean he he lived on the road, he lived on the road, which wasn't for me. But his entire thing was cleaning four opters and and recalibrating your lens on it. It's part of the base individual place, individual place. Probably walked in the door, made six or seven hundred bucks that day, walked out the door and it was all service. Can't complain. Yeah, can't complain. Yeah. And and how many of them are even out there now? See, that's something that I wonder how automated it can successfully go. Yeah. And you know, are we gonna see robots do that type of work? Yeah, which could well happen.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I don't know. Uh I know um you know the the doctor that works in our clinic, uh, you know, they just bought new machinery and the old machinery. That's really wrong, but you know, I think we're we're in that at that, you know, just like buying a new iPhone. Uh we it's bigger, it's better, it's better. I don't know. I mean it but it does the same thing, right? So i is it gonna be a throwaway society where we're we're developing these machines, and then you know, a couple of years down the road you've maybe maybe just paid it off, and now you gotta buy a new one for twice as much.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, a lot of a lot of the equipment aspect of our industry falls into that vein. And and honestly, I do want to explore on this podcast. I think that that's something that is probably the wise thing to dive into because you know, at what point is refurbishing worth it, you know. I'm sure they've quantified it pretty effectively to just get better off. You know, we were paying that bill anyway so much for thinking you weren't going to. So I can see the frustration on the OD, you know, side. But the other side down our industry is that the technology comes in every three seconds. There's a new lens design, there's a new coding design, there's a new especially digital. Digital and the array of specialty product that you can build and create and all kinds of interesting things that you can do. But it can be overwritten, it can be over and and that is a reality, I think. So the education at the right level and how that gets staggered, I think, is is pretty important, you know. Very lastly, but before we go, I just want to ask quickly about that. How how is that handled in Canada? You know, in in the States, there there is such a thing as a as an ABO master. Is there uh a master level in Canada? Uh, how is that defined?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, there's no uh regulated title of master. Uh just basically it's optician, contact lens practitioner, refracting optician. There's a few different terminologies. Uh there's a few regulated terminologies. The master is not in that classification. I obviously within the industry, you know, somebody's got as many years as as we both do. One might say that we would be in that realm, but I would I I wouldn't say I'm a master optician. I at least not openly.

SPEAKER_00

No, you know, uh touched on that. We touched on that. We're learning every day, and yeah, it's it's not just with new technology, it's it a lot of times it's with processes and how things go. We were just we're just mentioning like doing a comparison of like, oh, here's Demon's assessment over that period, here's AI's assessment over that period. I think that's an interesting aspect for AI. And I think that those are the ways to explore working in our industry, which I think is certainly educational. I don't know the actual complications for what's involved with becoming a master audition, unfortunately. I don't think it's highly specific. I think it's specifics kind of go out the window once you guys need to fan of you know creating tiers that are highly specific and highly that's okay. Make it make it hard, make it hard, make it proper. You know, I think some of the some of the best lessons I've seen are when somebody is handed a mangled frame. Let's work through it. Let's just get this thing back to a functioning level for whoever, you know, whoever, you know, ran over with a car or truck or whatever the heck happened, you know. Yeah, because that's part of the job.

SPEAKER_03

Part of the job, and you know, you know, I I'm sure you have the same same stories. You mean you've seen opticians that have been around for quite a long time that can't adjust the a frame if their life depended on it. You know, and there's there's some that tweak, tweak, tweak, and there you go. And the patient says, That's perfect, you know.

SPEAKER_00

So and then there's others where their hands just don't or their thumbs, you know, yeah. It's but that's real.

SPEAKER_03

You know, uh, you know, I I remember just jogging my memory. It was like I was mentoring a student optician on practicum, and he, you know, I did I was I was close, and I had the patient uh had the frame to be adjusted, and he's adjusting away and trying it on. No, no, then just readjust, readjust, and you know, about 10-15 minutes go by and he's like, Okay, I give up. D, do you want to take over? And I I just went and put it on and said, That's perfect. It's like and he goes, you know, like I said, yeah, but that's years and years of how many millions of adjustments later, right? So you'll get it, you'll get it. You'll you're working out, you did good, you got close, you know. But that's that's the difference between somebody that's new and somebody that's been around far too long, maybe.

SPEAKER_00

It's not far too long. It's a passion, it's a passion.

SPEAKER_03

There's a passion. I still love what I do, uh, you know, and like I said earlier, I I want to take this and give it to you. Uh I I I fullheartedly behind leaving this industry better than I found it.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

You know, it's given me a lifelong career. I mean, who who can say they've been in one industry for 40 years? Not that many of us, right?

SPEAKER_00

Uh that's true. That's true. Optician stay. Stay. The other the others that stay a lot are optimic tech, and and obviously optimal tree, it's their profession coming out with so much stick in debt. That's what they're gonna do. They're gonna do. We've talked for an hour. We've talked for an hour.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Uh great.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it has been great. I really have enjoyed this in the show notes. We'll certainly leave links to connect with you. You're the iCare coach, the I guy. The I guy.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Is there anything that you wanted to that you wanted to leave the audience with as we as we head out the door or out the door?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you know, like so, you know, if if if you're looking at your business, I mean and finding out, you know, uh I wish it could go a little bit better, and or I don't know what what's going on, like reach out to me. You know, yes, this is my side business, uh, but I want to help you out. If we can correct those problems with a a free 30-minute call, great. I'm happy. All right, it's it's it's when we both win, is is where my heart lies. You know, if we can make this industry better and stronger, then I've won already. You know, if if just have a question, reach out to me. I know I'm I'm happy to do what I can, you know. And if you want to dive deeper, then that's what the iCare coach is all about. So awesome. Reach out, touch me, you know, if you're a student, if you're been in the business for a while, you don't know what. So just let's let's shoot the breeze like we did today for an hour. It flew by.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And and all of your contact information, like I said, will be in the show notes, and uh we'll certainly promote this as as heavily as we can. I think that we're gonna have other discussions going forward because I want to connect other parts of Canada with work that you're doing in Western Canada. And I do want to refraction refracting opticians. Um there's a lot more questions to have about that. You know, we'll go down that road in in another interview.

SPEAKER_03

I'd be happy to do part two, three, ten, whatever the case may be. You know, uh even you know, like I think off off camera we we sort of chatted over the email about maybe a panel discussion. I think that'd be an awesome thing to do.

SPEAKER_00

I think that is a really good idea, especially when we we know you've you've talked you had presentations with the UK, you've had sessions with the UK, you've had a recent session with the session with uh the optician it was in uh Nigeria, amongst other places in Africa, and that the issues are similar continent to continent. If we can lay them out very clearly and connect smooth ways of making you know breaking down barriers, making processes easier in any way, shape, or form for anybody, it's a win. Like you said, passive forward, passive forward.

SPEAKER_03

That's what that's what we're paying forward, you know. Uh you know, uh the best thing the the next generation can do is is uh do something like we're we're doing now. Be invested in your career, be invested for the future of that career. Uh help your colleagues be better, right? That's what it's all about. Pay it forward, uh, help people out with their eye health health care need needs and and let the three O's work together like like we should. So, you know, I if there's a if other O's out there wanna connect with B, and how do we how do we manage that? How do we make that happen? I'd be all over that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that is absolutely going to be having at a legislative level. So I think it's gonna naturally extend into all of them connecting into what we do. I see a lot of gaps between ophthalmology, optonometry, and opticianry right now. And some of those have been forged by the existing system, some of them have been forged by insurance, some of them have been forged by patient care. It's there's a thousand reasons, geography, you know, there's so many things that we talked about. But bringing them together in every way that we humanly can and starting digitally connecting and on the ground in any practical level makes all the sense. So that is one happened. It's been probably in your lifetime, and then probably another thing that we're gonna end up passing on. Thanks again, Dean. This has been absolutely wonderful. This has been another episode of Automatry Profits Reveal. I'm your host, Peter Preck. Thank you so much for visiting us. Any uh technology questions that you want to know in depth about your practice, don't hesitate to take the profit description please. Thank you so much, everybody. Take good care.