A Team Feeding Thousands of Kids | Featuring Jennifer Gordon

Season 2 of the Ignite Podcast is officially here — and we’re kicking things off with a powerful conversation about leadership, purpose, and feeding the next generation.

In this episode, we sit down with Jennifer Gordon, the SNA Director of the Year, a powerhouse in child nutrition who oversees a team serving thousands of meals to students every single day. Her journey is filled with heart, purpose, and the kind of operational grit that keeps kids fed, fueled, and ready to learn.

Jennifer opens up about what it really takes to run a program at this scale — from navigating staffing and menu challenges to creating a culture where her team feels supported, valued, and deeply connected to the mission. You’ll hear how she leads with both compassion and strategy, why innovation matters more than ever, and how school nutrition is evolving to meet the needs of modern students.

Whether you work in foodservice, leadership, or simply love a story about people changing lives through meals, this conversation will leave you inspired.

🎧 Tune in and hear how Jennifer and her team turn kitchens into community lifelines — one plate at a time.

👨‍🍳 Our HOSTS

Robert Simmelink
Director of Culinary Services — Phoenix, Arizona
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Ryan Devereaux
Corporate Chef — Kent, Washington
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Paul Schutt
Corporate Chef — Denver, Colorado
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👨‍🍳 DISCLOSURE: 

Views expressed in the Culinary 360 Podcast are individual opinions and they do not represent the employers of each host or guest, or the firm with which each host or guest is associated. Our podcasts are for educational and informational purposes only and should not be deemed or viewed as advice or recommendations.

Transcript

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I am responsible for a team that feeds thousands of kids every day, and that is a really rewarding job. Laveen School District really is the hub of the community. We are 100% CEP, all of our children, eat for free. I have noticed how far industry has come with moving forward on that cleaner label. We want our families too to trust that like not only is it delicious and healthy, but it's safe to eat. Right. That's that's a big deal. Well, welcome to another episode of the Culinary 360 podcast. And I'm Chef Robert and I'm Chef Luke, and I am Chef Ryan. Today we're really excited to have Jennifer Gordon with us. She is a director for the Levine School District here in Metro Phoenix, and she is also the National director of the year with SNA. And Jennifer's going to tell us a little bit about her district and how she actually got into school food service and became a director. She was starting off in a different direction as a dietitian. And it's a pretty cool story. And I think it's a really great honor that she's been named as the national director. And it's really pretty difficult to get to that level and all the things that you have to go through. So let's turn it over to Jennifer and let her tell us about this. thank you for joining us. We're really happy to have you, Jennifer. Would you mind telling our listeners a little bit about the Laveen District? Where here in Phoenix you're located, and maybe, some population numbers for the district and some participation numbers maybe. And also, you know, the number of meals you're doing and anything else you want to tell us about the district, please? Sure. So Laveen School District is located in, like, the southwest. It's a southwest village of Phoenix. So we, you know, but operate again. We're kind of sandwiched in between South Mountain in this Estrella Mountains. This is a kind of a booming area right now. With the 202 freeway. When that was built, it really opened up a lot of new housing in the area. So this kind of Laveen kind of started as a, like a little rural town, and it's kind of growing into this, this huge, new desirable area to live. And so, the school district right now is a it's a K-8 school district. Oh, pre-K through eight. And we feed into the Phoenix Union School District, along with, I think there's several other elementary school districts that feed in the Phoenix Union. Our current enrollment is around 8200 and growing. I think when I started with the district ten years ago, we were in, like the 5000 range as far as enrollment goes. So we are we're fortunate that we're growing. We're actually building, a 10th school that's set to open in August. And so we're really excited about that. So yeah, we're kind of morphing into this from like, this urban small town feel to a little bit more of a metro looking, feel to it. And, Laveen is definitely kind of it's got its own identity as, you know, as a close knit community. And so Laveen School District really is the hub of the community. So I love being part of a district that really does really supports the community, and the community supports us. We are 100% CEP, so district wide CEP, meaning all school, all of our children, eat for free. We're in year two of that four year cycle. Very excited about that. And so that's been amazing in terms of seeing a lot more participation with our meals. Prior to going CEP, our free and reduced percentage average district wide was about 70%. So we've got schools that go up to, you know, the mid 90s, high 90s and then a school down in like the lower 30s, 40s, free and reduced percentage wise. But I would say, you know, averages around that 70%. I think the demographics in our school district will be changing, as more and more families come in and, and all the new housing. And so we'll see if those demographics change. That's kind of why I wanted to grab a hold of being eligible for CEP when we were, and we'll just kind of see what the next three plus years of the cycle look like. And if we're able to renew, I really hope we are. It's been such a wonderful benefit for our community. All of our schools are designed pre-K through eight, so we don't have any SAT elementary schools and middle schools. They're all designed to house a thousand plus kids. And so we've got big schools and again, range from pre-K to eighth grade. So, you know, that that in and of itself creates challenges and, and benefits. So that's a little bit about Laveen school districts. So yeah, I know every time I drive out that way, for whatever reason, it's like that field that used to have cows on it or growing something is now a housing development. It's the amount of growth out there is just phenomenal. It's it's crazy. So one of the things that we really wanted to get into today is congratulations. You've been named National Director of the year for, as an A. So what an accomplishment. Yeah. Yeah. Nice job. That's awesome. Yeah. All right. So honored. Tell us a little bit about about that. What is the process to be nominated and how how has the voting happening with that? And then what has this meant to you? What what new responsibilities do you have with this title? Yeah, it's it's amazing. I'm so honored. I was just blown away by being even awarded at the state level or the regional level, but to be announced as the national winner was, incredible. That process is, it's either a self nomination process or someone can nominate on your behalf. It's a pretty, extensive, kind of questionnaire based application. It's fully anonymous, though. They really try to remove any type of bias that happens. So you're not allowed to name your school district. You're not allowed to state your name. All of the narrative provided you're using, you know, the applicant, that sort of thing. And so that's cool because I think in this school nutrition world, you know, I've been really involved at the state level and somewhat at the national level. And so to know that, like, you've got a committee of people that are looking at at it for what it is and not for a name or you know, who, you know, that sort of thing. So, you do have to meet some criteria. I believe you have to be at least, assigned a certified. So they look at that, and I believe you have to have been, in your director role for I think, three years. I could look back at that criteria, but, it just, you know, it asked a lot of questions, about serving your community and what you've done for, you know, your school district and school nutrition, what you've done to support the association. You know, how you've involved your staff in that and that sort of thing. So, it was pretty, pretty extensive. And so once you submit the application, it goes to the state level where, a panel of people at the state level kind of judge all the applications that come in. They make a decision on who the state winner will be. That state winner is then sent to the region. So whatever region you're in, I'm in southwest region. And so then a completely separate group, a panel is, looks at your application and then determines from all the states who's going to be determined as the regional winner. And then all the regional winners are sent to a completely separate panel. And a decision is made as who the national winner will be. So, really interesting, kind of whole process. And it's just been it's been really exciting. I was recognized obviously at the annual national conference this past July. That was amazing. I got to have my family there, to support me and cheer me on. So that's that's amazing. My son, who's seven, he's in second grade, has been so proud. Any time we talk to anyone, just randomly, publicly. This literally happened this week. We are talking to, just this. This woman who happened to be the mom of someone I knew just ran into each other, and she's like, oh, what do you do? Where do you work? And says, explaining things. And my son is right there. And he's he was like, yeah. And she's the national director of the year. And it's, you know, he's so proud. I put you on the spot a little, like, yeah, yeah. But, yeah. So, as far as, like, other obligations or anything, there's not, there's not really anything. I think it's obviously put my name out there and so, you know, it's opened up opportunities to have conversations with people like you and, just do other, other things for the organization and for the school nutrition industry. As a whole. I've done, you know, a lot of interviews and things like that. So, it's just it's just a true honor and to be recognized. I mean, the other can, you know, when read about the other candidates who were awarded at, like, the regional level, it's like, wow, they're doing such amazing things with their programs to sort of be chosen amongst these, like very high caliber peers. It's truly an honor. So. And I'm just a small town girl from Idaho that moved to Arizona. A long time ago at this point. But, so it's just amazing. It's been really amazing. Yeah. It's awesome. All I can see after this podcast, Jimmy Kimmel is going to be contacting you. Yeah. That's right. That's so cool. Do you guys do a lot of farm to table for the schools? We haven't done a lot. I think, you know, procurement is a big challenge. It's not one that we can't work around, but, we we are a self, like, each of our school art schools is a self operate. We don't have, like a central warehouse or a central kitchen or anything. And so being able to kind of. And so then therefore we also don't have like refrigerated vehicles and things like that to be able to kind of coordinate deliveries of things where, you know, a farmer would be willing to kind of drop off at nine different schools. So there's some logistics that have made it a little bit of a challenge. Through the Department of Defense, for Fresh Produce program. I mean, we they really, indicate when you're ordering your fresh produce from them if it's an Arizona grown product. So we definitely try to utilize that. We've done a little bit through our fresh fruit and vegetable program as well. I've worked with a local microgreens farm for many, many years. And, so we've dabbled we haven't done as much as, I'd probably like. And so I'm hopeful that we can kind of work towards that as a next, next goal to tackle. Yeah. Okay, cool. Do you kind of have like, a set menu throughout the week that you just kind of based off of, like Wednesdays, pizza days or like things like that, like when we used to go to school or just do the change up or I do a four week cycle menu. And so and you'll be happy to maybe, I only have pizza on my menu once a month, so, we I, my, I follow a really clean label initiative that's been my daily since I started in this district. So I'm really particular on the products we bring in. And we've tried to incorporate more scratch cooking and things like that. But yeah, we follow a four week cycle menu. We change some things up mid-year. So going into quarter three or, you know, after we get back from winter break, some things will change. But, and then we do some, you know, seasonal or holiday stuff, that kind of thing. But, we follow for most part that cycle menu. And that really helps with costing and utilizing our commodity or, you know, commodities and our processed commodities and that sort of thing. So we've got a pretty dialed in. Nice. Are you doing breakfast and lunch and are you doing any other meals or any other take homes or summer programs too? We participate in every possible program that we can. So we have yeah, we do school breakfast. Some of our schools, we, you know, through Covid and all that, we've really, like morphed our model. So, you know, for a minute we were all doing universal breakfast in the classroom. We've kind of gotten away with that from that. Which has its pros and cons. But most of our schools do breakfast in the cafeteria. Some do like a grab and go model. And then what I've really focused on this year is kind of like a second chance breakfast, so that we're getting all those kids that either chose to play on the playground and not come into the cafeteria to eat breakfast or arrive, you know, late or right on time to not be tardy. So we've done that to kind of capture those kiddos that probably still need, a good wholesome start to their day. And then we do have the lunch program. We also participate in the Fresh Fruit and Vegetable program, which is a nutrition education based, program, and that is that seven of our nine schools. We actually used to have a little program called the Special Milk Program, which is a very small USDA program, and that is meant for kids who don't participate in breakfast or lunch. We've got, like a developmental preschool at a few of our campuses. And so they're just there for like a half day, four days a week. And so they used to buy milk from us. And I said, well, we have there's a program out there where we can, have USDA buy the milk. So we did that, for many, many, many years. And then, yeah, we have a summer feeding program. We do that at risk after school meals program. So that's, something where we're providing a supper. We do more of, like, a, we call it a super snack. So we do a quick, easy kind of bistro box type concepts. After school to just feed all those kids that are there for clubs or tutoring or sports even. And then because of that program, I'm also able to feed lunch to kiddos, during our break. So we always feed over, fall break, winter break, spring break. Sometimes I'll have, groups that, you know, are going on a field trip on a Saturday. And so through this program, we can we can do that as well. So yeah, we take advantage of every possible program that we can here. Awesome. That is awesome. That is great. That's good to hear. Yeah. Super smart. Getting all those programs dialed in. How how what would you say is the hardest part about finding these programs in these grants? And, the the initiatives that are out there to help pay for some of these programs. mean, any of it takes a little extra work. And, I mean, I'm not a grant writer by any means. And so I think that the time setting aside the time to be able to, you know, thoughtfully write out grants or really think strategically about how that I'll support your program or how you would be able to sustain that after the grant funding goes away. You know, that takes some time and effort to put into that. And then, of course, you know, any program you do, it means more paperwork, more oversight, more staffing. And so, yeah, it's just a matter I think, just, you know, either delegating or, just allocating the time because it's important to be able to, to do that. And then, you know, we've I've got an amazing team. My cafeteria managers are great leaders. And so they, they, they do what they need to do. At the site level, by at when we added the at risk after school meal program because of that higher increase in the reimbursement rate, I was able to staff, some people, more people on a full time basis. And so there was a lot of, I think, appeal to, you know, having more full time positions available and then of course, you know, work feeding and, and so we're, we're able to sustain that. And so there's definitely been a benefit I mean I'm able to for those that want to work over the breaks. You know they're people can sign up to work summer summertime same thing. So yeah, I think it's just a matter of finding, you know, good the good talent and the leaders to kind of help you carry through, your vision. And I think as long as everyone's on the same page that all these things are really good for feeding kids and nourishing kids, then it's, you know, it's worth it's worth the time and effort that goes into that. Nice. Do you use, like, volunteers? We haven't really needed to. But I've had a few ask from time to time, but I don't I don't I've never really had a lot of requests for it. You know, it got really got very lean after Covid, I'm sure. You know, you had a hard time. A lot of people left, I know it was a really tough time, so thankfully, I didn't even get to the point where we needed volunteers there. We were able to kind of creatively employ some other part time people within our district to help us out. And so I, I don't know, I, I try to really I guess you could consider me kind of a strategic thinker. And so I just try to do it in like a win win for everyone. So, if people wanted to volunteer, I think especially parents. I think it's great for them to get in and kind of see the behind the scenes of what we do every day. I think it gives them a much better perspective of what it takes to put this, you know, these amazing meals on trays. So I would certainly welcome it. I just haven't personally gotten a lot of requests for it. Yeah. Interesting. Robert, I think I see an opportunity there for you. There you go. I was going to say, Robert, were you the first volunteer? I'm sure. On that 202. Get out there. Yeah. How many, how many staff members do you usually have in, like, a, kitchen throughout the day and a kitchen. Anywhere from 5 to 7. Okay. It's depends on, the participation at that school. all schools have a manager and at least one full time worker. Some schools have two full time workers. And then we have some part time workers as well. So. And then so you said there's eight schools in the district. Nine going on ten. Yeah. With the ten. Yeah. That's when I, my first week that I started here, we, I was going to the groundbreaking ceremony of our eighth school. And so now we're on the ten. Yeah. How many? When did each school kind of estimating? They're about 1000 at each school, give or take. When did when do you anticipate the the 10th school opening. It'll be open for the next school year. So August 26th. Oh that's exciting. Yeah. We just had our groundbreaking ceremony two weeks ago that was attended by quite a few, local like, governmental officials. And so it was a big deal was done really nicely. So it's very exciting. You know, we've got other schools that in districts that are nearby that are having to make tough decisions to close schools. Yeah. So it's nice to be on this side of the coin where we're we're growing and building other schools. But I think we know that there's a cap to that. And so I think like our our leadership team is really good about making sure we're not overextending ourselves with opening, you know, getting too crazy, you know, opening too many schools. We've been really, mindful about that. But we're at the point where we've outgrown some of our schools. And so we're actually we got quite a bit of state funding to open this next school. So while you're going well I'm, I'm not sure where you are involved in the process of this next school and what, you know what the timeline to get to there is, are there things that you're changing in the cafeteria and the kitchen at this new school that are different than this current schools that you had? Not really. Again, like I said, when I first started, I was there at the groundbreaking. A lot of the design of that school had already happened. So I was just kind of involved from the tail end of that. And so I've learned from that school. And then when the ninth school was built, you know, we we took from what we learned with a number eight and, and definitely made tweaks to nine. We're making a few chefs, but not not really. And I've actually retrofitted a lot of our other cafeteria so that they're all they all have the same amount, you know, same equipment, same layout for, you know, oven, the serving line, that sort of thing. And we have steamers, we have convection ovens and we have, kettles. My one wish would be if we had, skillets, but I don't and we don't really have space to add those without losing something else, but, you know, we're able to kind of get it done with that kind of equipment and that's that's much more equipment that a lot of other schools have in their kitchen. So I will take it. Get some combi ovens in those bad boys. And yeah. No that's great though because you've learned that through the process of doing something that's working. So, so now, you know, you just keep it, you know, don't, don't get rid of what works. for sure I think the design on our kitchens, it's a great layout. It really meets our needs. And so yeah it's, it's nice to be able to not have to like completely start from scratch and have a good, you know, baseline to kind of build off of. So fortunate in that because certainly kitchen design is not my forte. I went to school for nutrition. You mentioned, during Covid, obviously it was difficult to staff, the kitchens. And I mean, obviously that was, a common issue across the country, especially in schools, but really all food service. But, you know, now, you know, we're we're having to say we're past it, right? But we're past it and we've moved on. And I feel like kitchens have become to be more staffed. But I feel like also when I visit kitchens now, the staff seems to be, you know, we have a different staff, like whether it's, you know, a different mindset in the kitchen, different processes and things that people have adjusted to. Have you seen that you feel that in your kitchens as well? I do, it was tough for a minute. We were really lean and and it was hard. there I don't, I think it was probably like the 2022 school year was like, we would we wouldn't get anyone applying. Like, we were just like in the moment someone applied. We were interviewing them. And I had an experience that before I usually had a long list of people to get to be able to choose from and an interview. And so that was that was tough. And, you know, I will say, and I think it's one of those things as much in as in an interview, you try to really emphasize how much work it is, how physical it is. You know, this is not this is a tough job. It's a it's a tough job. And, you know, you try to do as best you can to really paint that picture. But they get started and they're like, oh, wow, you weren't kidding. And I thought I could do this, but this is this is just too hard for me. Or this isn't the kind of job that I'm in, a private kind of thing. And so we definitely had it's kind of one way or the other where we had the people that we've had for years and years and years, and they love it and they stay. And then we've had the people that, you know, will last a week, last couple months. And so that turnover has made it hard because we're still trying to move forward. And yeah, when you're constantly either down a position or to having to retrain people, you know, putting all that extra work on the staff that are there, it causes challenges, but it is certainly getting better and better. And so that that is good. But yeah, I would say even like the, the style of the work or, you know, it just seemed like that that shifted to where I think people are more apt to take days off, whereas before you just didn't see that absenteeism being such a challenge to work through. we I guess we've had to, morph a little bit and be a little bit more accepting to, what people work style or ethic, you know, nothing too crazy. But yeah, I just, I would say it's just definitely been a little bit of a shift in that, that mindset. And maybe that's okay. Maybe we were all working ourselves to the ground too much and working, I think especially like people aren't willing to like, work through an illness now. Yeah. Whereas before Covid, I think we all, you know, you were, you know, walk. You were there, right? Oh, yeah. And maybe that's not a bad thing. Right. It's great. How how how long as your longest employee been working with you in the kitchen sink? 30 years. Holy moly. That's a lot. That's good. Yeah. That's awesome. Right. So cleaning. Yeah. Lou's, you know, she's been around a really long time. It's funny, her husband and I used to work together in the restaurant industry before he knew lives. So. Yeah, she's. Her whole family is kind of in that food service industry, but she's been here a really long time. And as far as I know, she's, you know, still planning to stay, so. Yeah, I mean, I've got people that literally started two days ago, two people working, you know, 30 plus years in the district. Wow thing. That's awesome. All right, you got the cat out of the bag? Yeah. You you've worked in other food service. You've also said that you started in. Yeah, I know Iowa, Idaho, Idaho, right. Yeah. So Idaho, tell us too, how how how do you I know a lot of Iowa, Idaho, Ohio, Idaho. Yeah. what were you doing in food service and then how did you how did that transition into becoming, in the school food service? Tell us a little bit about your background. Yeah. I never did anything back of the house. I was, I worked as a server for six years, at a restaurant that got me through college. It's actually where I met my husband. Oh. So he was one of my guests. But, when prior to that, I had done a lot of other, like, through high school, I worked in fast food. I worked at a grocery store. I'm. So I've always kind of had my pinky toe in food service in some capacity, but I went to school, to do nutrition. How did I learn in school? Nutrition. So that's that's interesting. When I got into nutrition, I thought for sure. And as most dietitians do that you're going to work in an eating disorder clinic or you're going to work for, like, weight loss. Like, those are the big things that a lot of dietitians think they're going to do. And I remember being in a community nutrition class, and learning about all these different programs with the school lunch program, you know, snap all those things. And it really kind of became a full circle moment for me because growing up, I grew up in a very food insecure household, and it for me was like, oh, I participated in those programs. I, I was a participant. I was, you know, eating school breakfast and school lunch. And relying on those programs and snap and work and all those things. And so, it really kind of lit a fire for me, wanting to do something in community nutrition. So, you know, I spent a little bit of time interning at a wick clinic. And then I had a friend in college who, started working for the department, Arizona department of Education, and she was really enjoying it. And she thought, you know, there's a position open, and I think you would be I think you'd really enjoy that. So I started my school nutrition career kind of backwards, where I started at the state level, working in, you know, the policy and the regulation side of things. And there was a time and I eat my words now where I told my I said, I will never be a foodservice director. I like thank you. There. Work there. That's too hard. But through that opportunity, I got to travel around the state and got to see amazing, wonderful school nutrition programs and meet a lot of really great people. And as time went on, I just, you know, people would, you know, call or we'd troubleshoot, you know, challenges or things they were going through as a school nutrition operator. And I just started kind of getting that bag of like, you know what? Maybe I could do this. I think I've got some good ideas. I think, maybe I could do it. So I, took a job at our nearby school district as their menu planner and nutritionist at, Roosevelt School District, which is just you probably are familiar with it, and worked there for two years. And that was really, really good for me because I got to learn the other side of it without having to be the director. And like, kind of all that decision making falling on me, I got, you know, I learned a lot from, working there and, and then this position in Laveen opened up, and I decided to go for it, and it worked out. So I've been here now for, I think I'm in my 11th school year, but ten, ten years now. I started in September 2015, that's all. And so, yeah, it's been a little bit of an opposite path, I think, in a lot of states, you start out as a director and you like retire at the state level. yeah, it's it's interesting, but it really laid a good foundation for me to have a true sense of policy and regulation and, got to kind of see how a lot of different districts were implementing the rules and regs. And so it was it was really it was really good at laid a foundation for me to know, like the basics. And then I could kind of take my creativity and vision and kind of work that in. So yeah, definitely. That is interesting to kind of think about starting off at the state and then seeing other districts and then going into that one district and you're like, I know what to do really good. And I know what to do, not to make it bad, you know, as in hindsight, because, you know, I was my role at the state level. I did a lot of training. But part of my role was audit. And so I was going on and doing all the audits of these districts. And, you know, I tell myself in hindsight all the time, like as a 20 something year old, I'm, you know, auditing programs of people who, you know, are veteran school nutrition directors and, you know, probably writing them up for things that in grand like, you know what I mean? Just very black and white, you know, kind of writing up findings that probably could have there could have been some gray area. And so and so I kind of joke that, you know, I really didn't have any business, but an or not having, you know, not having the local level perspective. And so but yeah, it was it was a really, really great pathway for me. I think, you know, I wouldn't change a thing about it. Yeah, definitely. so, like you said, you would audit things for people like little gray and white areas and things like that. And now being in might, And this is you can just give me a wink or a thumbs up. Do you kind of do you kind of like, not necessarily like break some of the rules or kind of like play around things since you kind of know what that is and like in a good way, Does that make sense? Kind of. No, I know I make, no, I think, you know, I, I'm a person of integrity, so of course, my intention is always to follow the rules. But I think because I have both perspectives and kind of know the intention of what the regulation means, I, I think I on the right side of the gray area, but, but I think, yeah, there's certainly there's got to be gray for something like there's definitely some absolutely nots or whatever, but no, I, because I and I've told this with my team because I don't want them to get nervous or, feel like we have to clean everything up if the auditors come in. But I've always told them, like, anyone is welcome to come into our kitchens at any point in time. I, I've always told my staff, if you're doing what you're told and taught and and you're following our policies, then you have nothing to worry about because we're we're doing it the way we should. Right. And so that's important to me because, you know, I've been on the other side and I know how intimidating it can be. And so I just want everyone to feel really comfortable and confident that what they're doing, is right. And, you know, I entrust my managers to to make decisions. And you know, come to me if they have questions. But, you know, I think I've laid a good foundation with them, too, on, you know what, where that black and white is and, and we can talk about the gray in the middle. Definitely. That just gave you like flashbacks of when you said, I don't want my staff getting nervous and and not and, and it's like when you were a chef in the health department walks in and you're like, in a rush and you're like, oh, yeah. Can you tell us you you see this? Don't do this. Yeah, clean that up. I know you start, you start. There may not be good. Everybody has to walk on. Yeah. There may or may not be a text thread going on when like a health department or health department at one school kind of means you're probably going to go to a public school. The Red Eagle has landed, spread Eagle has landed. Yeah, I, I, I worked at a restaurant years ago, that had fairly high end clientele. And, it was it was really early on in my career. And, the chef, they're still friends with, like, a great guy, but had a, you know, really good take on a lot of these types of things. And he just like you. Great answer, by the way. Like you, he was just like, no, I mean, we have a job to do. You guys do your jobs very well, like I really have. No, you know, there's there should be no different direction given to you, no matter who it is, whether it's, you know, the health department that's walking in or if it's you know, you know, some super high end customer that wants to come in, that's running out and only wants their their stuff the way they want it. You know, we do our job, we make our menu. We do that menu really well, you're going to do that for every single person that comes through that door no matter what. Right. And so I love that. I love that response. I love your answer. Thanks. I guess I can Texas State Department not to worry about you now. Yeah. No, no. I mean, maybe I, I'm sure this is the case because I do feel like, a lot of school, like, schools or kitchens, are known to be really clean and, like, sanitary. But we always get great grades, you know, and the like. There's one time it was out of their control. It was like a maintenance issue where something needed to be fixed. And, I remember that manager got a B, and he was so upset. And, so they take a lot of pride in that, that, that a health rating is something to grab brag about. And I just make sure to always share that with the principals and, and all that when those health inspection reports come because that's that's important. We want We want our families too to trust that like we're preparing really safe. not only is it delicious and healthy, but it's safe to eat. So. Right. That's that's a big deal. And it feels so good too, when you have things in place already to where you don't have to sweat about it, and then you get that A+ and you're just like, I'm awesome, I did, I did this great. The systems are in place and following the rules and things like that. And that's just how to be successful with things like that. And that's, that's that's great leadership. And like you were saying it, it's inspiring for them to get that that a and you know if they get dinged and get a B you know you take it personally. It's, you know, I'm, you're, you know you always want that that best grade. Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I was shopping and I would always 90% or above. And that was our goal. And then it was okay, I'm at 90% now. We're going to go 95 or above, and it's going to keep improving and putting new things in place. And it was always fun and then when you get below a 90 and I had fired everybody and get a new staff and then it was just a mess. No, no you wouldn't. I'll do it for you. Now get out of here. Right then you get a 60. Yeah, get a 60. They just don't do anything. Do you feel like you'll be in this role for a while, or do you have any kind of, like, perspectives out there that you're kind of shooting for? That's a great question. I am super happy doing what I do. I mean, I feel I get to like, I don't personally feel I love feeding, serving, by the way, but I don't personally feed kids every day. But I am responsible for a team that feeds thousands of kids every day, and that is a really rewarding job. So no, I, I foresee, probably retiring in a, in a job like this, I mean, I, I love to come to work every day. It's very fulfilling. I love seeing my team thrive. I, you know, we've been able to conquer a lot of challenges. And so I'm always, you know, on board for embracing something new. And so, yeah, I mean, it never gets old. Like, I don't feel like I'm in a job where I feel stagnant. I don't feel, you know, like I'm looking for something else. I mean, who knows? But, I think I don't foresee leaving, and, you know, I have my kids, a second grader, and I plan to keep them here and our school district, and my daughter is only about to be three, but I plan to put her in. So I think, you know, I think we're plant. The plan is to be here for the long haul. I we've just I've worked really hard to get where we are. I remember when I first started, And it was before I had kids, but I would put in ten, 12 hour days here because there was just not a lot in place, like you said, those systems and those things. So, you know, we didn't have standardized recipes. We didn't have, you know, our food safety book. We there was just so much work that had to be done. things were, you know, the program here was still great before I got here. But, you know, I think having that state agency perspective, I was like, we need to have some of this stuff. Like, yeah, it was really interesting when we when I first got here to there was, it was a little bit more like each school kind of got to do a, some variation of what the menu said. And so I remember it It was really fun actually standardizing things like as simple as, like a chef salad. So I remember, early on we'd come to manager meetings and I'd say, okay, every manager bring your a version of your chef's salad to the meeting. And we would all look at it and we'd all decide and agree together on what the chef's salad for Laveen School District should look like. So I was really getting that idea of like that idea of standardization and, and kind of the theme of, you know, at McDonald's, you go, you know, maybe that's a bad example here, but, you know, you go somewhere that's like a chain restaurant. You expect something one way or the other. that was a really like fun exercise. We did that a lot. And I, you know, I'm, I'm the kind of leader that I like. I understand decisions I make impact those that are boots on the ground, working day in and day out in our kitchens. And so I really try to involve them in the process as much as possible. And so doing exercises like that, was really fun. But yeah, I mean, it's been a lot, you know, ten years, it doesn't seem like long. It's flown by. But, you know, it's there's this is kind of my baby now, like, I have invested a lot of my time and energy here. And, you know, I work for a really good superintendent who's very supportive of our programs. He loves to bring his whole council team into the kitchen. So when they go visit schools for, like, other reasons, like observe classrooms and things like that, they make it a point to come into our kitchens and have our meals. So I just yeah, I feel very supported and so and I feel like I'm also give it a lot of, latitude to make my own decisions. And make my program what it is. And so, you know, it's it makes coming to work and being able to, to make my program, my program, really an easy, an easy. Yes. Every day when I wake up. So, you know, as long as things continue that way and I'm not feeling stagnant or not feeling like I'm. I'm contributing and moving us forward, I, I planned it, I plan to be here. That's awesome. I love the buy in and I love, I love the way you did that with the salad, the the getting everybody to to look at it together like that's that's kind of genius. such a simple step. It also like takes a little bit of the pressure off. You also like, you know you're getting them there. Everybody's deciding this all at once together. Lovely. Yeah. That's great. I like that. Yeah. It's like I don't care what the chef SEL looks like. I just want you all to, you know what your kids love. And so let's just make it the best that it can be. And so benefits every school. So, so yeah, that's that's ten. That tends to be especially with the menu, I really let them drive a lot of, that decision making with what we put on our menu, what they know the kids like. And and I think because they're involved so much in the process, I think that helps with buying and and then feeling like they're really contributing. They're not just being told what to do. They they got to be part of that menu creation. Yeah. That's all. Also, can you just give a little bit further, Jennifer. With the menu creation, how how does the menu evolve? And bringing new menu items on, do you do tastings or, you know, besides the input from the, from the other, kitchen members? What what does that process look like? Yeah. So we, you know, again, Covid threw everything off. So, you know, we we had moved from this great menu where we were offering a lot of choices to packaging everything. And then we had the ease back in because of staffing. So we went back to like, you know, one menu item a day, two, you know, now we're back to our full blown, we offer daily two different, hot entrees and then a cold entree. And then we have a very robust salad bar. But, what I typically do every year is bring together a committee, together to talk about the menu as it stands. And what would you change? I like to consider, you know, is this is this a heavy day, labor wise? Can we can we move some things around and manipulate things around so it makes it more of an even spread? We, you know, take into a lot of consideration what the kids like. And, and we do kind of theme things up a little bit, like on Asian Day, I'm doing like, you know, we have like a chicken ramen bowl. We do. And we pair that up with something simple, like a chicken egg roll or a dumpling or something that's more heat and serve. And we do that intentionally. And then we taste test throughout the year. So I'll meet with industry. I like I mentioned before, I have some pretty strict clean label, standards that I follow. So we've partnered with the Lifetime Foundation for we've been partners with them for many, many years, and they kind of have an ingredient guide. We really try to adhere to that as much as possible. So we're looking for, you know, products that, you know, kind of we're kind of we've been a little bit progressive where you're starting to see a lot of states come up with some new legislation on ultra processed foods or eliminating dyes and things like that. And we've been doing that for many, many years. And so I created a purchasing guidelines, document. And it kind of goes through all of my yes and no. So we before I got here, we we were peanut free. I've remained that way because we've just had so many kids with peanut allergies. And we were pork free when I got here as well, because we have a high population of families that don't eat pork. I've been okay with that. But, you know, so those right off the bat, we don't do peanuts. We don't do pork. I am not a individually wrapped throw in the oven person. Never happened. So I'm looking for bulk products, and I'm looking for labels that have a really clean ingredient, duck, and are free from the ingredients. It's not just dyes and preservatives, but it's other things that, you know, we probably just shouldn't have. And food we're feeding the children. And so what I try to be on the forefront of that when a vendor wants to meet with me, you know, and we set up a meeting, I always send them the guidelines ahead of time so that they can come to the table with the products that kind of meet all those checklist items, because it doesn't help them or I if we're wasting our time on products that I'm not going to ever consider bringing into our kitchens. And so then, yeah, after we kind of talk through some things and, oh, yeah, we're looking for a product like that, will then, you know, it meets all those checkmarks, then we'll do a taste testing. We do a lot of taste testing with students. We, you know, we've done, when we were rolling out our chicken ramen bowl, we did district wide, extensive taste testing. We had two dietetic interns with us at the time to help us out. It was a week of intense, work, and but we did, a cool chart where we were asking kids on which, toppings they wanted for their ramen bowls and vote. You know, we were voting on that. But yeah, we just try to change it up. So sometimes we'll do something with like, the younger kids or the older kids, or we'll do something we know it's going to be maybe a more of a after school meal type item. So we'll do that with a smaller group after school. We do a lot of taste testing in the summer, too, just because we have a little bit of a we don't have as many. We have kids, but they're not as rush to get back to class. So, you know, we can get a little bit more thoughtful with that. So yeah, we definitely taste test items before it makes it to the menu. Our menu, honestly, at this point, is pretty solid. And so we've only had to like plug and play a few things here and there. Like we've and again, I'm also trying to, implement a little bit more scratch cooking, at the same time. And so we're just trying like this year, a big year, big focus was on sauces. So we are making our own ranch, we're making our own chipotle sauce. We're then from there making, like, a Chipotle ranch. We're making our own, teriyaki sauce. And so those take some time. And so, but those are things where we can kind of, like, implement them into the production of the day, and do those ahead of time. But, you know, so I just try to slowly throw a little bit more, at them, but, you know, it's that's kind of how the process works. So, I don't know, I would eat lunch in our cafeteria every day because they're they're all like, they're really. It's really good foods. I'm really proud of the fact we only have pizza on our menu once a month. You know. Yes. Do we have our chicken nuggets and our tenders and hot dogs and hamburgers? The things kids like? Yes. But, you know, they're once a month and we're putting other, you know, international flavors on the menu. And, and just trying to dabble with that, but also kind of pair that up against maybe a less intimidating food. Because, you know, I hate to put all this ramen on the serving line, and that's just not something that is, like, appealing to all kids. So there's always kind of a, you know, a choice that's maybe a little safer for, kids. But kids surprise me. They're definitely their taste buds are morphing. I think they're exposed to a lot more flavor profiles. And then, you know, spice, you know, even our little kids will go for the tahini and, you know, the spicy chicken sandwich and things like that. And so, I'm, I'm never surprised anymore by what, a kid like some schools, like, the ramen is really popular with the younger grades. And I would think that would be something more appealing to, like, our middle schoolers. So, you know, we're always just trying to keep things interesting, but we just have so many tried and true menu items that the kids would like revolt if they weren't on our menu anymore. So, right. It's nice to be at the point, though, where we can kind of just plug and play a little bit and not have to revamp the menu completely. And again, because everything only is served once a month, we're not getting a lot of that menu fatigue. Yeah. That's great. I noticed. So I have, I have two kids also I have a high schooler and I have elementary seem to be a middle schooler. And I you know, back when we when, well, when I was in, in school and, you know, pizza was once a week, right? And pizza was like one of my favorite things. Like, I look forward to that. I had I had school lunch every day, all through my school hood, whatever you want to call that. But, you know, for me, like, that was, that was a part of the deal. And like, that's what I wanted. I think pizza's better now than it was before. But to your point, and this is always sort of amazes me about my own kids, they don't really look forward to pizza day as much. Like, you know, it's, you know, the quality of the pizzas better. But at the same time, there are so many other things that that are being served now in the school meals, that are just fantastic really. And I think, you know, I know, kudos to you. Kudos to to all the food service directors out there for, for the the push that everybody has been doing over the past, you know, I would say like 20 years, to bring in new flavors and to bring in new innovative products and, and, and, you know, ways for, for children to get exposed to some of these flavors because, yes, their families are exposing them at home and maybe when they go out to eat. But a lot of these kids are really experiencing this at school. You know, they're not going to see, you know, bulgogi, like kids aren't going to see bulgogi, you know, probably at home, you know, like a lot of kids won't. Right? Some kids will, obviously. But but you know, the fact that there are school menus out there that that have these types of ingredients and, and menu items is, is amazing. I love what's happening there. And I think it's really cool to think about too is how far foods come along since like we were in school where, you know, I'll get clients that will come into the kitchen and they'll refuse to get like frozen products. And I'm like, I mean, frozen products nowadays are kind of better than getting it fresh at this point. Some of them are. Yeah. There's so like nutrition value in better like we've come so far now to where it's like you really can't look down upon things that you can use to be successful in like school cooking or cafeterias around the world and stuff like that, which is really cool. My idea? Yeah, I kind of think of like a lot of frozen again, for me, I'm looking that we're kind of clean label and not having, preservatives and things like that. But if you think about it, it was scratch made somewhere. Yeah, it just wasn't in your kitchen. So they froze it and they're bringing it to you. Yes, you're reheating it, but I mean, of course, nothing's better than making something from scratch in your own kitchen. But, you know, we have staffing issues and equipment issues and time issues. So you do the best you can. Definitely. And so yeah, I'm, I'm not opposed to I just, you know, and I think I have noticed since again, being here ten years, how far industry has come with kind of moving forward on that cleaner label. I think the demand is out there again, especially now that we're seeing a lot of state legislation and everything with, you know, the Maha movement. But, You know, I've had great partnerships with industry. I've had, industry who you know, I wouldn't put something on our menu because it was great, but it had caramel color and they were able to go back to their, you know, their QA. I don't know who the you know, the people that make this stuff and decided, you know what, the caramel color wasn't needed and they pulled it out of their, their item and we're talking about a national manufacturer and, you know, so that benefits everyone. And so it's, it's nice to know that so many products are accessible. And I know I'm talking to chefs, but I, but yeah, it's that balance again of, what can you folk, I guess, what can you focus on doing really well in your kitchen and then let you know the other things that are a little bit easier? Labor kind of come in and fill in the gaps there. Definitely. And I think it's awesome. How you doing your sauces in-house now. Like when you buy those sauces you look at those labels and how much shit's actually in that state. Yeah. Oh, I lose my mind. And then also too, it's so much more cost efficient for you guys from making your own sauces in-house. Like, yeah, great, great. Like starting with the scratch, cooking with sauces, like, I love that. Yeah. It's when I interview people, you know, and you ask them, you know, why do you want to work in our kitchens? They always say it's because they love to cook and they love kids. And so let's get them cooking. Let's, you know, instead of feel like when you're putting a little more heart and soul into what you're making, there's pride there. There's an investment in it. You're not just heating and serving something someone else made somewhere else. And and so, yeah, sure, it's a change in the mindset of, like, the labor and what the work looks like, but it comes more from the heart. And what's better than, like, you guys do this every day, right? You're feeding from your heart. It's coming from that. You know, you're carrying on that energy to to what you're putting out on the serving line. And so that's a win win. Yeah, definitely. What are you smiling about, Robert. Yeah I'm liking what I'm hearing. I, I'm liking the passion of cooking. You know, feeding the kiddos and doing it. Doing it the right way. I it's it's it's great to hear that kind of stuff. Makes me feel proud of my Phoenix and Laveen. So, would you say that there's a most popular fruit or vegetable amongst your students? there's some canned fruits that are very popular. Mandarin oranges. Yeah. fresh. You know we do it. We don't, we do have a lot of canned fruit every day. But we also offer fresh fruits and vegetables every day. Hekima is very popular in our community. And I don't think I had had jicama until I came to, like, a school district. And I think, I don't know if Roosevelt did or not, but it might have been my first exposure to jicama might have been here in Laveen. And, you know, that's a staple in a lot of families, right here. So jicama is very popular. Strawberries, of course. They love, you know, they love apples. They love grapes. Carrots, of course. But, you know, back to the sauce. It's funny because, you know, now that we're making our own ranch dressing, I love hearing the conversations that our staff have with the students. And they'll, like now, like at one school, the ranch dressing is now the manager's ranch dressing. So Kris's ranch dressing, they love dressing, you know. And so I love that. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, that is cool. Kids know that you're making it in the house and get like, that cool nickname. You're like, yeah, that's me Chris. Probably. So really good to know. Yes. I'm trying to think back to the jicama. Is that are they eating the jicama by itself, or is they come up with a dip or a dressing or something? It's either it can be plain. Sometimes the managers or the staff will put a tiny little lemon wedge on each of the, we do everything in pre-portioned half cup portions just for it makes it easy for offer versus serve and all that compliance stuff. So, they'll, and sometimes they'll get it with if they're, they'll get it with tajeen but mostly just that lemon wedges. All they need with and yeah, it's obviously peeled and sliced into like a matchstick kind of look. Salad. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, come on, who would fight that? People love him so much. Especially since. Yeah, it's it's a staple. Yeah, but you got to the only reason Tito here. So. Yeah, we have a lot of hikma. I mean, the only reason why I ate carrots when I was a kid was because my parents told me to give me a night vision, and then I would run in the backyard. And when it was since. So it didn't. It sounds about right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, things are starting to make sense, Ryan. Now, now it all now all makes sense. Now let me stand by my parents. Kept buying me. Helmets over Christmas. And make me go eat carrots and run in the backyard. Now. That's awesome. Well, Jennifer, what would be. Let's see what what are some of your favorite things to to make? What are your favorite things to make food wise? So at home, you mean sure. Yeah, yeah. At home or whatever. Yeah. I'm a big breakfast person, so I love to make just plain French toast is a staple in our house on the weekends. So. And my, son again, who's seven, said, like, you know, my, my French toast is Buster's. You know, this is one of those. Yeah. You really like that? You. I wish that I could say, like, I like to cook, but it's it's hard because I feel like my kids, my kids personally, are still at an age where they're a little bit picky and finicky, and my husband's kind of picky. And so I, you know, kind of think simple, but, I, so, yeah, I'm not going to I, I'm not going to. It's funny, I feel like I have an easier time planning my menu and my job at home. I just struggle. I don't know why that is. Oh, that's the way it is for me, too. It's all good. I just need to probably just take some of the lunch to go and just like, yeah, it. Sounds like you'd have good options. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you get to go into the schools a lot or are you kind of just patient. I yeah I mean I feel like I do get kind of stuck in the office a lot just with meetings and just work. But I love going to the schools. It's one of my favorite things to do. So I love serving, when I can. It's so funny because I'm not there very often, so it's it's so funny how observant kids are, but I most times if I'm in there serving, they'll be like, are you new? How am I doing my doing okay. I like, kind of like incognito. But it's it's fun is as much as the interactions with the students are just so brief. Kids are just so funny. And, so I enjoy that. And I enjoy, being able. I, I would never ask my staff to do anything I wasn't willing to do, of course. So, you know, I like to be able to go in and wash some dishes and, you know, serve and and keep up with them because, you know, they're so fast and they're so good at what they do. And so I wish I was out in the schools more than I am, but, but I enjoy it when I get the opportunity to do it. And then with my son, he was really picky for a long time and then wasn't really willing to eat school lunch. And I'm like, you have to eat school lunch. I'm your mom. Like, I like, oh boy, yeah, he's in the second grade. But, for kindergarten and first grade, the deal was I would come have a lunch with him if he would eat school lunch. And so, you know, it started out as just the one it was. It started was French Toast Day again. I mean, the French toast with my son. And so that was like the one day a month he would eat, and then it's morphed and morphed and this series on second grade. And I would say most times he's now eating lunch at school. And I'm also sitting, starting to see him eat more fresh vegetables. And I'm like, you're eating a carrot? And he's like, yes. And I'm like, and and so it's been really cool to see that. But I very much have enjoyed having lunch with him and and interacting with the kids once they're seated. And I'm having those little sidebar conversations with the kids, once I see them, like enjoying what they're eating. And so, yeah, it brings a lot of joy to me to go to the schools. And part of me wishes that, like, my office was at a school or something, so I can just, like, pop down, but it's not. So, you know, that that should be something I, I wish I would. I'll just say, I wish I was in a school cafeteria more often than I am. Yeah, I'm just make an office in a cafeteria somewhere. Like, this is my office. I mean, I have a laptop, right? It takes my phone. Instead of coffee shops, go to cafeterias. Yeah, Yeah. Is there something around Arizona that you like to do in your free time? Yeah. I'm a I love to hike. I love to hike. So there's some great mountains just right behind my office that I used to pretty much hike every day after work. And so now it's more of a luxury to be able to do just time. And we're busy now. Weekends are busy with baseball and swimming and all the things. But I really love to hike and I really love to travel. Again, working for the state, I got to see parts of Arizona that I never would have otherwise. A lot of time spent on the Indian reservations and just really rural areas that you would probably just pass through on your car, on your way to somewhere else, or never even go on, you know, pass by. And so I love, I love to travel throughout Arizona and just see new things. And, it's also nice to get out of Phoenix and see, like, the trees changing and maybe see some snow and that sort of thing bring, you know, the, the fall and winter. So, yeah, I, I very much enjoy that. And, yeah, those are probably my big hobbies when it comes to that. Otherwise I pretty much, you know, mom life. So it's, it's work and I try to, you know, get to the gym on a fairly regular basis and then it's, it's the practices and, you know, the games and all the things. So yeah, I'm definitely in a season of life that's, pretty much, you know, work and then family focused. So. Yep. Yep. Be that chauffeur different. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's kind of Luke's life. Carpools. That's definitely in my life, too. Yeah, yeah. Just before this podcast, I was, in the carpool lane grabbing. Okay. Yeah. Nice, nice. Yeah. No, my my daughter's a cheerleader. And, like, there's their practice schedule is ridiculous. Okay? I don't even understand it completely, but they have some practices. Where. So we're north of Denver, but sometimes their practices are in Denver, so it's, in a 45 minute drive. We try to, like, get, you know, some of the girls parents, we've all gotten together and we now take turns, which is great. So three girls, one of us will drive them down, and then another person will pick him up. But it's like that. Practice starts at six and ends at 9 p.m.. And then there's other ones that are like right after school that finish at like seven or sometimes eight, depending on when they can start. And then now they've started morning practices, which is, oh my, yeah, yeah. Everyone see the kids. That's like yeah, right. We, we do lots of like weekend meal planning, right? I mean, that's that's my thing, right? Like I, I am so my wife's a great cook too. And so we will do I'm the prep cook. She's the chef at home and I prep whatever I can, whether it's in a bunch of little deli cups, all the ingredients to make, you know, fried rice or, you know, or if there's something that we can do in the crockpot, I might just cook it over the weekend in the crock pot and then cool it down in the crock pot, and then we just warm it back up in the crockpot. You know, whatever it is that we need to do, things that can be done ahead of time and was just a reheat, oh my gosh. We'll try to do at least three meals, three dinners worth of prep every Saturday or Sunday. That way we've got the majority of the weeks kind of figured out and then you've got some flexibility to, you know, there's a yeah, the night you decide now let's let's go here, let's go out or let's, you know, let's order in from somewhere. You know, you can do that without wasting something. So yeah. Very smart. Yeah. Look, I think you need to go to Jennifer's house and do some meal prep. Yeah. I'm down, I guess I just one that I'm. Yeah. Looking to, you know, come down to Phoenix any time you just swing on by. I'm in, I'm in. Robert. I'll get it. Get, the expenses, approved. Robert just approved. So it sounds like I'm good. Like, that's very much a justifiable. Well, Jennifer, this has been great. Thank you so much for for joining us for the podcast. You know, I feel like I definitely learned a lot about your district and how you guys do things and really the reason why you've won, you know, the National director of the year award. So yeah. Granulation. Thank you. That's Houston. Pleasure to be here with you guys. So thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. Graduations to you and thanks for representing Arizona. Yeah. Thank you. Well, that was awesome, but, fun. What a fun podcast that was, to have Jennifer on there. I know that sounds like Hannibal. So good. Hello, guys. That was so awesome. That was so awesome. But seriously, it was really cool having her on here. So many great accomplishments and how far she's gotten, and especially how she came in and kind of just kind of made that district her own and really got in with the programs in being successful with that. Great stories to hear. Yeah, I thought it was really fun to hear how when she came into the district, there weren't a lot of our SOPs and other things like that in place. And even though the district was great and everything, the food was good and everything was going along it just once all that stuff started to get implemented, it made it a better working environment for the team, and it just made their quality of life and their day to day that much better. Yeah, right. Yeah, I know I thought that I loved all of that. I think I was sort of struck by just like how important the, you know, the clean labels piece was, right? And how that's been a driving force for her. And everything that they do, you know, and even like there was the example where she, you know, they had found something that they liked and they thought was really good. And it had, caramel color in it. Right. And so she was just like, no, I don't care. Like, we, we like it, but sorry, we're not going to use it because it has this in it. And then because of that, because, you know, she, she, you stuck by or you know her her you know her morals. Right. Like what she, you know, feels is important. That company decided to pull that ingredient ingredient out, so that they could use it. And then like she said, you know, and it just kind of making things better for the entire food chain, you know, everybody that's created that product. So, yeah, super, super good, super cool. Yeah. Definitely great. Great. Guest for the podcast and, fun one. Yes. Yeah, definitely. Right now we got to do the spinny thing, right. Dwight, are you still doing that? Do you have to do this venue thing? You got to lead us out. Ryan. Click and subscribe. Jesus, Robert. Come on, man, really? Gotta unlock my wheels. Yeah. There's so much you got to do. Click that subscribe button.**** Oh, just... that was a disaster.