#79: How to Handle Holiday Overwhelm - Practical Tips with Jo Rodriquez

How do you actually cope with all the pressure and stress that comes with the festive season?

In this episode of the Hello Therapy podcast, I'm joined by Health Psychologist, Jo Rodriguez. We talk about the real, often hidden challenges that people face around Christmas. Together, we explore everything from fatigue, family dynamics, loneliness, and the overwhelming “perfect Christmas” pressure, to practical strategies for checking in with yourself and regulating stress. 

Whether you love or struggle with the holidays, you’ll find compassionate, relatable tips to make the festive period a little more manageable.

Highlights include:
3:18 Hidden Stresses Of The Festive Season
7:01 Loneliness, Exhaustion And Family Pressure
12:26 Spotting Fatigue And Early Warning Signs
19:01 Practical Basics To Reduce Overwhelm
24:11 Inner Critic, Perfectionism And Expectations
30:21 Flexibility And Rethinking Traditions
36:06 Body Regulation Over Head-Only Strategies

This week's guest:
Jo Rodriguez is a UK-based Health Psychologist with over 20 years’ experience helping people who feel anxious, overwhelmed, and stuck in their own heads. She works with the mind and the body. CBT, EMDR, EFT, and nervous system tools.

Jo is known for her straight-talking, compassionate style and her ability to explain why you feel the way you do, without making you feel broken or blamed. Her work focuses on helping people calm their bodies, untangle overthinking, and feel more like themselves again.

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The Hello Therapy podcast and the information provided by Dr Liz White (DClinPsy, CPsychol, AFBPsS, CSci, HCPC reg.), is solely intended for informational and educational purposes and does not constitute personalised advice. Please reach out to your GP or a mental health professional if you need support. 

Transcript

Welcome And Show Mission

Speaker 2 0:43

If you're looking to improve your mental health and well-being, then keep listening. I'm Dr. Liz White, a consultant clinical psychologist with over 20 years of experience. Whether you're a frazzled parent, a stressed-out professional, or finding your way through the challenges of midlife, you're in the right place. Through a mix of solo episodes and insightful conversations with expert psychologists and therapists, I'm bringing you evidence-based tools and strategies to help you navigate life's ups and downs with confidence, clarity and compassion. This is your space to feel seen, supported and empowered. Welcome to Hello Therapy. We dig into the hidden stresses that often pile up this time of year, the pressure to make everything perfect, the shift in routines, and the sheer physical exhaustion, most people don't even register. We talk through practical things that you can do to help, and Joe also walks us through the fascinating world of EFT tapping, what it is, why it helps, and how you can use it as a quick way to steady your body when everything feels too much. So if you're juggling end-of-year deadlines, managing other people's expectations, or just quietly wishing the holidays were a little less intense, this episode gives you practical, compassionate tools to make December feel more manageable. So let's dive in. Joe, thank you so much for coming on the Hello Therapy Podcast. Do you want to let our listeners know who you are and what you do? Yes, thank you for having me. My name is Joe. I am a health psychologist and a cognitive psychotherapist by background. Um, and I'm also on Instagram as straightforward psychology. Brilliant. So we're here today to talk about Christmas because Christmas is fast approaching and we're recording this. What are we? End of November. But I feel like Christmas has been coming for like the last six weeks. Yeah. I think we we sort of got Halloween out of the way, and then suddenly it was all Christmas stuff in the shop. It's looming. It's there. So um I wanted us to think about how to manage really the festive period because it it can feel like a lot, can't it? What would you say are the sort of hidden stresses that people tend to underestimate this time of year? Well, like you said, it's just a lot, isn't it? There are so many things that make Christmas difficult that I think we don't you don't really consider, but it they are. So you know, trying to prepare for Christmas, especially when you know you're working or if you've got family, or you've just it's just a busy time. Like things seem to intensify around the Christmas period, and you're preparing maybe to have a bit of a break. And so, you know, things pile on, and then there's a pressure and an expectation, and there's you know, sometimes the looming difficult family dynamics, sometimes it's uh it's actually a painful and a sad time of year because it brings up grief and loss. You know, there's just so much to this time of year, and I think we're just like a bit like a rabbit in the headlights, just yeah, careering towards this thing that we're all supposed to be happy and joyful about. And yes, there might be many lovely things to it, but also it's a really difficult time. Yeah, it really is, isn't it? I think the other thing that popped into my mind there was also there are a lot of people at Christmas or the f over the festive period that are are really lonely. And I think Christmas time because there's so much around about families, yeah, um spending time together, uh, that can really highlight when someone is is really alone that that they are alone. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I think it's just that's just not spoken about, is it? It's not it's not spoken about enough for sure. It's not it can be incredibly isolating and I think it can shine a light on any any sort of any difficulty that someone struggles with. I think Christmas is the time that you know it gets harder for the majority. Absolutely, and also it's the end of the year, and I think there's this sort of level of exhaustion that that happens for most people. Um, I really notice it in my kids uh this time of year. So that that Christmas, those Christmas holiday, that kind of reset is really needed. I don't know if you found that as well. Absolutely, absolutely, like my kids are absolutely exhausted already, and there's still four weeks to go. And I think you know, schools try to make it fun and do all of these things, but actually the children are just knackered, and so their emotions are all over the place, and you know, it's hard to maintain your own emotions when they're emotionally all over the place, and then there's the pressure to make it all nice, yeah. Yeah, you're right. I think I think yeah, schools they there's so much on, isn't there? There's so many events like carol concerts and plays and special like school's got like a special curry night, and like that, there's so many things to remember. So, not just like the exhaustion with the with the kids, but also as a parent, you've got to remember all these things, and that's like an added demand or an added stressor, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, definitely. So, what would you say helps at this time of year in terms of knowing when you're sort of feeling quite stretched, which I think is pretty you know normal at this time of year, isn't it? Particularly as a parent, but just as you know, generally, particularly if you're sort of trying to finish up work and you've got a period of time off. How can someone sort of recognise that they're going from sort of quite stretched to really overwhelmed? Because I think often we don't quite realise it, do we? I don't think so. Yeah, because I think we're just so our brain is so focused on the doing that we forget to check in. I think you know, our body gives us signs that we're struggling, even if we don't mentally register. So I am speaking to so many people right now who are exhausted, like completely wiped out by fatigue, and a fatigue that is that you sleep doesn't make you feel better. Yeah, you know, so I think high levels of fatigue is one thing. Um, I think compromised immune system. So obviously there's more bugs and things at this time of year anyway, but I think a lot of people are more vulnerable because I think we forget the basics, like to eat regularly, to drink water, you know, to have breakfast, to because there's just so many things. Sit down for five minutes and have lunch. So compromise immune systems, I think, and just um general malaise, you know, like body aching and just not feeling not feeling good, also like maybe feeling sort of um more jittery and a bit more on edge. I think I'm seeing a lot of people who are struggling to switch off. So their body is tired, but their brain is just on overdrive. Um, there's so many ways that our body sort of tries to let us know that it's it's just under pressure. Um but it's hard, even if you recognise those symptoms, it's still hard to stop. Yeah, and it makes it so much harder, doesn't it, when you're fatigued or you're sort of you've got a cold and you're still trying to sort of get everything done. Um you know, you're just sort of carrying on unless unless you've got flu, but at least you know, with flu, you can sort of go to bed for three weeks. But obviously that's not great either. Um but yeah, that's that's really difficult because I think we're quite good, aren't we? And like when January comes along, I think there's there's this kind of real sense of new year, new start, new me kind of thing, isn't there? Which is um but you get you can you you can sort of get into healthier habits much much more easily, whereas I think in the run-up to Christmas, there's a real sense of um yeah, the exhaustion, the malaise, the fatigue, but also you're you're kind of working towards this Christmas Day Boxing Day thing, aren't you? And the the the sort of excess that can happen over the Christmas period as well. Yeah. Um, so what are you what what kind of things are you telling your clients at the moment when they're coming to you saying that I'm just exhausted, what do I do? And we're not even you know close to Christmas yet. I mean it's hard, right, isn't it? Because if you are extremely fatigued but you have got lots of things that you still need to do, um, I think people understanding why they feel the way that they do is quite helpful, you know, because I think when you don't understand and when you think it's a me problem, um, that can actually make you feel worse. So I think just uh understanding, you know, slightly unpacking, thinking about what's going on, recognizing the stresses. On a practical level, we might look at, you know, how to how to manage the fatigue and what to look out for. So those things that, you know, we've just mentioned, like making sure you're drinking water regularly, making sure you're having breakfast, and that it's a you know, nutritional breakfast if possible. Um, you know, really basic things, trying to limit screen time if possible, or trying to make sure that you there are pockets of time, like micro moments throughout the day where you're giving your brain the opportunity to wind down so it's not just constantly pushing from the next to the next thing, you know, stepping inside, taking a few breaths, you know, really, really basic things to try and integrate into your day. Um, and then more on like the the sort of psychological level, like it's about recognizing like what can you take your foot off the gas from? Like what what is an expectation in your head on on or like a pressure that's there that we maybe need to respond to, and what are the ones that maybe we don't need to respond to, but we feel we do, or we feel guilty if we don't. Um so to want to recognise that as well. Yeah, because a lot of us have inner critics, don't we? Um that drive the the that sort of relentless need for things have to be perfect, or you know, especially around Christmas and um all the preparation that comes along with it and the the presence and all that. And the social pressure, right? You know, it feels like there is social pressure to every time you see an advert, every time, you know, there there are things going on at school, even if everybody's feeling the same, there's this unspoken pressure that you know you have to try and make it okay. Yeah, right, and and that's hard, but also, yeah, there's the internal pressure and that sort of the narrative that we have, and of trying to feeling bad about things that we can't do, or feeling bad about things that we might struggle with, and that sort of critic of we have to make it good. Yeah, that that's a really powerful sentence, isn't it? Because I think that that can be in the mind of a lot of people. I have to make this good, I have to make this a great Christmas for everyone, um, or for myself, you know. You know, Christmas is special, that kind of thing. And yeah, that that in itself brings pressure. And if you are someone who's sort of feeling very overwhelmed anyway, is really tired and fatigued, and you have a tendency towards self-criticism, like what would you say to someone like that who is who is really feeling it in this sort of pre-Christmas period? I think we try and understand the criticism, you know, understand where's that critic coming from, what's it trying to achieve? Because some people recognize that there's a critic, but that they don't really feel they can do anything about it, or you know, you can get in a bit of a push-pull where you kind of recognize that there's a critical voice in your mind, but you get annoyed with it, or you know, that and that can sort of exacerbate the problem, become part of the problem. So I think actually understanding the critic where it's coming from and what it's trying to achieve, yeah, yeah, can be really helpful because the critic, even though they're so harsh, they've come from somewhere and they have they're trying to do something. And generally what they're trying to do is look after you, look out for you, try and get you to do something, prevent you from doing something. And I think when people can understand that, they can soften their perspective of the criticism and that or hold some compassion towards the critic, and actually that softens the criticism sometimes. So understanding that and unpacking that actually can really help people, you know, almost sort of soften the shoulders, recognize oh, okay, yeah, and it makes it feel more doable to not do then what the critic says when you understand. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. So being able to yeah, recognize when it's showing up. Um, and it's uh what I say to a lot of people is um so so notice it's there, but then kind of say to it, Well, I don't I don't need to listen to you right now, thanks anyway, but I'm gonna get on with my day. You know, it's like a I know you're there, but I'm not really gonna pay much attention to you because it's not helpful in this moment. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And and and I think speaking in that way to it, almost having a conversation with it, even though I think that's something that people are like, what you want me to talk to myself or talk to a part of me? Yeah, because because actually when you have that conversation, if you externalize it and you're like, well, you know, if you had somebody outside of you speaking to you like that all the time, you would naturally feel horrendous, wouldn't you? And you wouldn't want to turn around and shout at that person. Maybe you feel a bit afraid of them or whatever. But if you're like, I hear you, I hear you, I'm just doing my best on this thing, I'm just trying to do this, and that that really enables you to sort of have a bit more, maybe control, maybe um uh yeah, just an ability to choose a bit more rather than doing it because your head is pounding you into it. Yeah. And I think that links in with the idea of being able to lower your expectations as well over around Christmas, isn't it? And um, and and maybe that starts with, like you said before, about you know, let you know, kind of identify your stresses. So part of that might be, well, okay, do I have super high expectations for myself and and and Christmas itself? Yeah. What are they and just list them? You know, what is what is it that you want this Christmas to look like or this festive period to look like? And how can you sort of bring them down a notch? You know, does it have to be that kind of magical fairy tale Christmas Christmas in your in your home, for example, like in terms of decoration? Because you know, decorations take a long time to put up, you know, is there a way you could do them um in a sort in a short in a shorter time span? Yeah, it's that kind of thing, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, definitely. And questioning why we're doing things as well, not just doing them because we think we should or because it's what you do at Christmas, but actually, does that work for you? Does that work for your family? Does that work for, you know, just because that's the expectation, that doesn't mean that's how it has to be done. And actually that can be quite liberating, recognizing you can you can cut corners if you want to, you can make your own traditions if you want to, you can start from scratch if you're somebody that's struggling with feeling quite alone or isolated, you know, you can do what the hell you like, you know, you can do whatever makes you feel comfortable on that day. You could be, I don't know, somebody wrote to me and said that they were gonna go off camping for a couple of days and that actually it was for Thanksgiving, but they have the same sort of feeling and they're like, I'm just gonna pack up and go spend a few days in a log cabin in the woods. And I was like, that is amazing, you know. If you have the ability to do that, yeah, just get away. And it doesn't have to, it doesn't have to be a certain way just because that's the expectation. You have, you know, you can change that. And obviously, there are some times when family dynamics and things make it very difficult, but yeah, if there are things that you can change, it's just questioning it and thinking about it's okay if I do things differently, if it's okay if I want to change things, it's not selfish, it doesn't mean all of these, it's just because I think the other thing that that we can get stuck in is this that kind of narrative of well, we've always done it like this, and we've always had the decorations like this, we've always cooked this meal, we've always done, you know. Um, and I think that can be quite limiting as well. Um if it's a if it's a lot. So I think there's something about, as you say, that flexibility in being able to go, well, what do I what do I want Christmas to look like this year? So yes, we have these traditions in our family, but you know, do they work for us this year? And can we mix it up a bit? So having that flexibility, yeah, exactly. And do these traditions actually work for us? And do we like all of them? Do we want to start our own traditions? Like, yeah. So it's okay to question that, it's okay to do it differently. Yeah. And just taking the pressure off yourself, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's really key. Because I think for for for definitely for someone who is highly self-critical, you know, usually what you find somewhere in there is a bit of perfectionism where things have to be just so or perfect or close to perfect. Yeah. Exactly. And if you reflect on times when you have had enjoyment and you have had a lovely time, like has it been perfect or have they been actually the messy, unexpected moments? And I think often when you reflect, you see that the the times when you're so stressed striving for perfect are not necessarily the times that give you the best feeling. Yeah, yeah. So in terms of we're talking coping strategies, aren't we? But I'm I'm curious about whether for you there's any sort of counterintuitive coping strategies that that you tend to recommend that that actually works. Is there anything like that that you can say? Counterintuitive. Well, I so I'm a big fan of body regulation. So I think you know, I think often when we are spinning out in our head, we think it's a head problem. And I tend to be let's look at the body first. Okay. Because if our body Is super stressed, and you know, either we're feeling very jittery, our heart's racing, or you know, just really tense, or we're numbing out, or we're super fatigued, then it is very hard to manage your thoughts because your thoughts are responding to the fact that your body is feeling so stressed. They're responding to the things that are happening around us, right? But they're also responding to the internal. So actually tuning in more to the internal sensations and trying to figure out ways to help our body come back to a place of feeling safe, feeling calm, feeling a bit regulated. That's normally my number one. I think the other thing is the thing that we talked about is that recognizing the inner critic is generally trying to help us rather than the tug-of-war fight with the inner critic, recognizing that actually talking to that part, talking to that critic with a softness rather than a harshness can actually reduce it. And so those two things are probably one of the first things that we try and work on and understand. And they you know, they generally help quite a lot in the early stages. So for someone who isn't particularly like connected, I guess, with their body, because I think a lot of people walk around very what I would call heady, like in their heads, like just thinking, thinking, thinking, and not very um aware of actually what's happening in their body. So what kind of things can they look out for? I think the things that we've mentioned already, so um not sleeping very well, okay, um, or trouble falling asleep, waking quite a lot in the night, um, waking up super early, not able to get back to sleep because your head is buzzing. Like obviously, these things are really common. There's lots of factors, but these are like general, general things we might look out for. Um generally feeling quite on edge, feeling irritable, being a bit more snappy than usual, or maybe feeling like extremely brain foggy. Yeah. Really, really like Christmas time, I think, because there's so much to remember. We forget, we're very forgetful. Um, and you know, lots of brain fog. Like I mentioned earlier, feeling like we just can't switch our brains off, even though we're really tired. So that sort of it's almost like you have the two body states working together, the like the very energetic one, but also the very tired one working together. And tuning into that generally starts with slowing down, yeah. Or having intentional moments throughout the day where you try to register what's going on in my body. Yeah. So starting off small, starting off with, you know, maybe when I wake up having a little body check-in, sometimes even like talking to your body in the same way that you do, like, how are we today? Like, where are we at? You know? Um, and maybe having some set times throughout the day where we're trying to check in, you know, at lunchtime, checking in, thinking, and thinking, have I sat down yet today? Have I had a moment to have I actually sat down to eat? What have I eaten? How am I feeling right now? Where's my head at? Am I very district? Am I feeling like I just need to race to the next thing? So having some moments throughout the day when we begin to check in with ourselves rather than, as you said, just being constantly in our head or constantly in the next thing that we have to get done. Yeah, and that can be so powerful, especially if you're if you've never done that before or you're not used to it. Yeah. Um, but I know I know what people tend to say when I say things like that in class in sessions is but how do I remember? Like, you know, what you know, and I will kind of go super practical and say, well, you can set an alarm or something like that. But do you have any tips for that? Like especially in this busy festive period, yeah. What what would you say to someone saying to you, I don't, I'm far too busy to do that? Yeah. I think we try and I try and do like we we do a demo of it in the session. Yeah, I think, you know, actually when you when you experience like just doing it, it doesn't have to take long, but I think anything extra that we have to think about at a time when we're already stressed feels a lot. So even if I'm saying I remember having a conversation with someone and I was like, let's just try one minute, and one minute made her well up. And it was that because she was so overwhelmed, the thought of anything extra was too much. So we're like, okay, so even if that feels too much, maybe it's one breath, maybe it's literally, you know, and we trying, we do demo it together in the session. If you if you experience it and you notice the physical shift already, then what that does is that helps a person to see the benefit of at least trying. And even if you only do it once a week, that's once a week more than you were doing before, yeah, you know. So you don't aim to do it 10 times a day at the start. You can aim to do it maybe when I brush my teeth. When I brush my teeth, because I'm still when I brush my teeth, maybe when I brush my teeth, I'll try to remember to have a quick check-in. Where's my body at? Like, are my shoulders up to my ears? Am I breathing into my chest? Does my tummy feel weird? You know, so just a little body check-in. Or anything that you might do routinely when I stick a kettle on, when I, I don't know, when the I've just got the kids in the car and I'm walking around and it's that moment of that moment, you know, trying to identify a moment where would it be feasible to think about in that moment where's my body at? Yeah. What I did last year was uh every time we had our Christmas tree in the lounge, and every time I went into the lounge and sat down on the sofa, I would look at the Christmas tree and I set it to kind of twinkle, I think. Yeah. Um, and I just spent literally 10 seconds just looking at the lights, blinking, um, and using that as a I did a kind of quick breathing exercise. But again, you could do that as a check-in, could you like where's the tension in my body? Yeah. And I think with I think with Christmas, there are kind of more interesting things, aren't there, to sort of help anchor you to a moment like that, like a Christmas tree, Christmas tree lights or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything like that, right? Um, and yeah, and I think I think the thing the thing that can trip people up with this, I found, is as soon as you start asking yourself those questions, like, uh, you know, I'm checking with my body, how's my body doing? Blah, blah, blah. You then get in your head again. And I think there's a there's a, you know, it takes practice, doesn't it, to bring yourself back into your body and actually um not necessarily have a long conversation with yourself, but more focusing in on the sensations. Yeah. And I think maybe sometimes also having an actionable thing that you can do if you notice that you're feeling tense, if you notice that you're feeling really on edge. So you feel like there's something I can do that will only take a few seconds that will just maybe help me to feel a bit more grounded. And what that one thing is might vary. It might be, I don't know, you wiggle your toes because for some people, focusing on the breath makes you feel more anxious. It might, it might be that you focus on the breath or you you put your hands here, or it might be a little tapping exercise. It might that there are lots of things that can be done, and I think that's a difficulty with the overwhelm as well. It's like if you're not familiar with all of this stuff, where do I begin? Yeah, absolutely. Talk to me about tapping because I don't know very much about it, and I know it's something that you talk about on your Instagram. So can you can you talk a bit about that, particularly in relation to like when you're feeling overwhelmed? Yeah, so so I um practice um EFT tapping, it's called emotional freedom technique. So you can, I mean, there's also bilateral stimulation tapping, so it's like just to confuse things. That's the from the EMDR, but I particularly use EFT tapping. So I came across EFT how many years a few years ago now. I had a lot of physical health problems. I had physical health problems, they were worse than much worse than like a few years ago. And I was looking for more body-based tools that um helped me to feel calmer. So that's how it came about. So, and for me, I found that EFT significantly helped, like very, very quickly helped my body to feel calm. So, of course, I was like, oh, this is this is a new thing. Like, you know, practitioners love learning new things. Um so of course, I then qualified in it. And what EFT tapping is, it's tapping on acupressure points whilst thinking about or saying out loud something that is your well, you can do it different ways, but this is the way that I'll say it now. The the most simple way, if you're feeling a bit upset or distressed or anxious or something, is tapping on set acupressure points whilst thinking about or speaking about the thing that is making you feel stressed or upset in that moment. It could be a thought, it could be a worry, it could just be the body sensation, it could be that you're not you're feeling anxious. And so the research is fine, it's still there's still a lot of emerging research. So, you know, originally it was dating back to Chinese medicine, but of course, recently in the last 10 years, there's been a lot more research into the clinical effectiveness of it. Um, and because there have been some a lot of studies that have shown that actually it is helpful with um stress, anxiety, and PTSD. So the theory is that tapping on the acupressure points goes to certain parts of the brain that helps to lower the stress response. Okay. And so because the stress response is lowered, whilst we're thinking about and speaking the thing that's making us feel stressed, the body calms down in relation to that thing. Okay. Um so yeah, so it's something that I often practice, and it's often one of the first things that I teach people. Not everybody gets along with it, some people don't find it super helpful. I'd say the majority of people do. The people that don't find it helpful, often there's a bit of a hurdle because it feels a bit different and it feels a bit strange to like speak and tap parts of your body. There's like the part of you that's like, I'm a bit skeptical of this, which is fine. So someone listening who's like, oh, this sounds interesting, is there something that they could sort of try that you could talk them through now? Or is this something that they would have to like learn with a therapist or go into no? So the thing with the EFT is that there's there's clinical application of EFT, which I'd say you go to a therapist for, which is if you want to work through traumas, if you, you know, have had difficult lots of different experiences in the past and you want to work through those, and obviously, yes, you work with a practitioner. If you're experiencing stress, the stress reduction EFT, it's a very simple thing that has been shown to be safe to use, and it just helps your body to feel a bit calmer in the moment. We can do a little demo now if you want to. Yeah, go for it. Yeah, okay. So let's just do it on stress. Okay, so you start by tapping on the side of your hand. Okay. So when you tap on the side of your hand, this is called a set, and you do what's called a setup statement. So this is where you're telling your brain this is the thing that I'm working on. So let's do it for just stress. Okay, so if and you say something like, even though I'm aware I feel stressed right now, I accept how I feel. And you do that three times, even though I'm feeling stressed right now, I accept how I feel. And you try and focus your attention on what's making like where your stress is. So if your heart's racing, maybe you're feeling a bit shaky or jittery, even though I'm feeling stressed right now, I accept how I feel. Did you say that out loud or in your head? Um, it's you can do it either. Okay. I think I think the research is showing it's slightly more beneficial if you say it out loud, but it does work if you say it in your head. Something that's also good is to do like a subjective units of distress thing at the start. So basically, where you're rating how stressed do I feel right now. So if you're like an eight out of ten or seven out of ten, so you say where you are at the start, and that's just really so you can see it coming down. So then the first tapping point is here on the inside of your eyebrow, one or two fingers, and then you do what's called um a repeater statement. It's like the stress that I'm feeling right now, and then you go to the outside of your eyebrow the stress that I'm feeling right now. Sometimes I might get people to just take a breath in through your nose, out through your mouth. Under your eye, the stress that I'm feeling in my body right now. Um to your nose. Under your lips. So you say whatever, you know, it's experiencing tension in your chest, it might be. My heart's racing, my mind is all over the place. It's quite good for calming racing thoughts as well. And then your collarbone erasing thoughts. The stress that I'm feeling. And your arms are sort of on your bra line. The stress that I'm holding in my body right now. Feeling so stressed about Christmas. And then the last one is the top of your head. So the stress that I'm feeling right now in my body. And then I usually do a couple of rounds of that, and then if you notice any changes and you tap on the changes, if you say, like I notice my mind is calmer, or I notice my softening, or if something else comes up, now I'm noticing something in my belly, you sort of follow your symptoms around a bit. Okay. Do a couple of few sets of that. Um, and then I usually finish off with hands in your palm of your hands in your lap and then just take a couple of breaths into your nose and out through your mouth. And I I mean, I like doing that because it's I th there's something about the the movement as well, isn't it? That kind of focuses you in on that that area. Um rather than just doing a breathe, because I think you know, the the go-to thing is like just slow your breathing down, isn't it? Yeah. Um, but the the tap obviously breathing is a very internal experience, whereas tapping is external and it's you know, it's it's not hard, but it's you know, there's something about it, isn't there? You're you're thinking about it, you're concentrating on the tapping, you're there is the movement. And there's been lots of research into, you know, is it the movement, does it matter where you tap? Um there it is those set points, like it if you tap random places on your body, it's you don't quite get the same level of benefit. So there's something about those points. I think it's fascinating how they go about. I think, yeah, that um yeah. And would you recommend doing all of those together, or can you just sort of do do one of the taps, one of the areas? Yeah. So I often, so the the amount of research is less on the effectiveness of picking one or two points. However, I still say if you can't do all of them, do one or two, because it does help a little bit, you know. So often people are like, I can't just go and tap my face if I'm out in public and I'm feeling really stressed or something like that. So I'd say pick one or two discrete ones. So this one is one that I do quite a lot. So if I'm yeah, my collarbone. So if I'm in a meeting or something, or you know, I've got something coming up and I'm feeling quite anxious about it, I might tap my collarbone. Under your arm is quite a nice discrete one because you can just cross your arms, tap under your arm. These ones around the eye, like if you have your hand here, you might be able to just tap the side of your face. So, so yes, there is the the reason that you do all of them is that apparently all of each tapping point sort of links to a slightly different thing. Okay. What so you don't get the full effectiveness by tapping one or two, but you get some benefit. I see. Well, Joe, thank you so much for coming today. I think that we've we've talked about a lot of sort of practical things, which is great for people listening who just want some sort of quick tips to to really sort of help them calm down before the big day or Christmas. Um, but no, thank you so much for coming. You're welcome. Thank you for having me. 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