Episode #4 From Pentathlon to Triathlon with Courtney Hyde

How Courtney transitioned from Pentathlon to racing for GB Triathlon.

What she found out about training as a woman, and her unanswered questions.

How your menstrual cycle can affect your training and racing.

How that led her to coaching, and working with female athletes.

Courtney coaches all types of athlete, but she is motivated to primarily support female athletes. This comes from her personal experience. She has observed the drop-off rate of girls in sports, and secondly, she has gone through the process of truly understanding her own menstrual cycle and has seen the positive impact it has had on her life

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Transcript

0:03

[Music] hi I'm Celia boothman founder of LTR coaching and I'd like to welcome you to the inspired triathletes podcast where I'll be bringing you stories from female triathletes and taking on topics that are important to women in the sport hello and welcome today's podcast is going to be with Courtney uh Hyde is that right got your last name right um who is a triathon coach and GB age group triathlete so we're going to talk a little bit about her journey to becoming an age group triathlete and what kind of inspired her to go down that route and what it was like for her when she was training to compete at age group level and a little bit about her frustrations with being coached and and how she developed her coaching practice and we'll see what happens along the way and if anything else comes up then we're going to chat about that as well but first of all thanks for joining me Courtney if You' just like to give us a little bit of background um how long like you know how did you get into Triathlon that's probably where we want to start you know what background did you have before you got into Triathlon and how many years were you doing Triathlon before you started uh wanting to compete in the gbh group team yeah so I haven't always been a triathlete that's my first confession um but I started Life as a modern pent athlete um you get some points if you managed to name all five sports so it's running swimming shooting riding and fencing um yeah and so I I started that at age I think I never did my first competition age 12 11 11 or 12 um and then competed all the way through to about age 17 or 18 and during that time I was Talent spotted by the GB team and I competed internationally for GB at know various levels like Europeans and World Cup um and as you can imagine competing in like five sports took a lot of my time so when I was at school like most of my half terms were out on training camps and and all my mornings evenings were spent usually at the pool and doing various other things um so this like multi- Eventing has always been in my life I'm quite used to juggling uh lots of sports and also lots of other things going on as well um for one reason or another I actually moved away from uh pentlin and I can maybe go into like reasons like why that was but um I kind of lost my love for the sport a little bit and I I actually stopped doing any sort of training for quite a while actually and uh but I wanted to kind of do something so I when I was at six form and uni I joined the university cross country team um got really involved in that I did a lot of work on um boosting the number of um girls in the team because when I first arrived there was like four of us okay that sounds familiar yeah um yeah you tell have to trade sessions and just think where are all the ovaries at come on people um so like I did some like volunteer work to um I B like I organized a girls like running club I just but just for girls did it around campus and some of them were really good I just said like why why are you going to the University Club so you know I tried to really boost it there and by the time I left um the the numbers were significantly High I think our total was like 25 by the time I left and it was increasing year on year after that that's amazing so why what was the reason that people didn't want to join the um Cross Country Club what was I think honestly it was um I think they felt they were too slow right not for me I don't have anyone to go with were common things um you know if you looked at the the training sessions it and like the guys in there were really really nice like it's it's nothing to do with them personally but when you sort like talk to a session and it's just men yeah oh like just and they what they were actually quite a little bit bad at was like dropping you on sessions yeah so what you end up and is not to say that the the goals of the slowest ones on the team because I certainly beat quite a few boys on the team but you'd find the like you'd get left on your own like and it do like a lap around the like it's like a um like a five mile Loop around the around the town and you didn't want to be left by yourself because it was quite dark and you maybe it's unfamiliar you didn't quite know the roots like you don't want to be just dropped so yeah um you know I had to sort like educate them a little bit on right no drop policy you know you may actually have to run 10 to 15 seconds slower per kilometer than you would do normally like it's not going to harm you but it will really make sure that this person keeps keeps showing up yeah that's I just wanted to chip in there because it's a it's reminding me of um a cross country group well it was like a fell running group that I was in in Sheffield and it's exactly the same it was like you'd run out and you'd run out to the Peak District from Sheffield so it's quite a long way and it was on you know Offroad and quite often dark and they would just go and like if you didn't know the route it was like I I've got to be able to keep up to sort of know my way back kind of thing if I can't keep up with them and so that was a massive barrier for a lot of people I could kind of keep up with most of the time and there was some every now and then someone would drop back and make sure that everyone was there but I remember there was a few people would come and then they'd just never come back again because it was like well they're just going to leave me and I can't keep up so yeah exactly kind of a common thing sometimes in in these clubs they kind of don't think about how it might be if you are at the back and it's like oh tough you kind of just left on your own yeah it's um I don't know whether they adopt as like survival of the fittest it's not very he it's just really not it's not inclusive and it's not helpful um so yeah other things we used to do as well because we used to meet on on campus but where most people used to live was you know a couple miles out and um some of the the streets that like around around like night time you wouldn't necessarily want to be running around by especially not as a as a young female like there had been cases of people having um not like being followed but just having like you abuse up and it just it's not nice something that we used to organize was a uh just a knock on the door so you'd like go to your session but then people like knock on the door oh right going to our running now and then we' like pick people up on the way oh nice all of us would be able to like go there together and we'd all organize it so that we could you know run run there to the session safely and then we drop everyone off on the way back as well um and that helped with with just boosting the numbers and also accountability as well if someone's like coming around knocking on your door like on get out I'm sorry I'm in my pajamas can't really do that oh that's sounds amazing sounds like there's some you know things that people could probably take away if they were like running other groups as well for you know to help women be included and and because it is a common thing isn't it it's like I don't want to be last I don't want to be the slowest and you know most of the time you're not but there's that fear isn't there yeah absolutely the other thing I wanted to ask you was how did you kind of find out about pentathlon was that something in your school then or how did it no um I so I lived um in an area and it was a very like rural like area and there was a riding stable um a couple kilometers from my house so I only go run there like check like ponies out and then um like s of run back home but I think over time because I I spent a lot of my summer holidays like mocking out the horses and stuff that the owner of the riding stable I think probably like took pity on me said oh you can have a few riding lessons as well if you like ni um so I got into um horse riding from that I did a fair bit of like running at school like it's just something that you just you know did in PE lessons and know School cross country stuff like that and I started going to um events like horse riding events um by this thing called The Pony Club and Pony Club have a triathlon like scene um which uh was running swimming and shooting right so I ended up like picking up a couple more Sports through that and I did Pony Club tetron so four Sports which included horse riding as well like round like cross country um build and yeah got into through that and I think then I had like the four Sports then I just had to take up fencing so it just all kind of like came about through that and know I've been horse riding for for years and years running was something I sort of was pretty like okay out from school swimming I was pretty rubbish out initially and then got some help with my Straight technique and then I got a lot better um I just s yeah just picked it up through that really I think as a kid like you you just like a sponge to new ideas and new skills so I end up picking up things very very quickly and getting quite good at it quite quickly oh amazing how was the fence thing how did you yeah it's um it's difficult to explain the like what it's like I suppose because it's it's very like skill-based very technical um but you also have to be extremely like powerful um which is I guess different to the the other sports like they're less explosive whereas fencing is a very explosive sport very very technical um also a lot to do with mindset as well because you're you're you're going directly against your opponent in a not I think a fight you know it's like yeah but essentially it is so you have you can figure out like what your opponent is going to do or how they usually um they usually like fence and then you can figure out how to beat them nice okay that sounds really amazing quite interesting okay so you went from pentatlon to cross country running and then you're about at University now so yeah yeah at University I then I think I was still running uh after that I I moved to London and then I I think I took up hockey I used to play hockey it's great yeah hockey is really great to meet people I played hockey for about three three or four years um worked my way up from a I think it was like ladies fours all the way up to ladies 2os in that in that time um and just really enjoyed like the social aspect of it but I think I I don't I think with with Team things is really good and you celebrate and commiserate as a team but I was always s looking for something like else like I was still running um was training with hockey like twice a week I was Finding though and I think this one of my biggest frustrations with um playing hockey was that this a number of bruises yeah like quite bad isn't it yeah yeah just like bruise shins bruise feet just like things like that and I I kind of got to a point where I'm like hm it's like sometimes I couldn't do run training because I had a I stubbed my toe or someone you know I got things like that and it start to get sort of a bit annoying and I think at that point I gone into running like sort of more proper like a little bit more seriously but I did it it is like 10K uh running race and you know I found it really really hard um I was so used to doing like much much shorter events so in um when I was competing like in modern pedf and it was maybe up to about 3K um so I hadn't really done the volume to like Warren getting a good time in a 10K for like quite some time um and I found it really really difficult and I just thought like how like how have I got to a point where I can't like 10 like 10k race is like too challenging for me um and I I just like a bit of a be in my Bonnet about like this ridiculous um what like what can I do instead which is more a challenge than this but will like help me on the way to that so I then looked up I think I did like the London duathlon okay which is like a 10k run uh like 40K cycle and 5K run and it's not a short one then wasn't a short no no so my logic was like in that 10K race I like really like struggled to finish it in the last two or 3K I thought like what what's the way for me to make sure like I absolutely do finish it I thought well if I got another event I have to do afterwards then I have to like see it through yeah yeah so I did that so like the logic behind it in this like gathline was got the 10K like running race like my bike's already transitioned so I need to go and pick it up better get on it I'll see how my legs feel did the 40K cycle and then by the time you get to the like 5K run like my legs are ABS disgusting but the like this is just hor why do people put themselves through this um um but I think it's like you know like you did it again you got you you're in it you're in it so far that you may as well finish it yeah so that was my logic like doing it and I was like super like happy like with finishing it you I was know I think everyone's first triathlon you have to like beg steal and borrow a kit for it is there something you kind just like no one's fully kitted out for your first event it's just like I was using the bike I like commuted on it was just a really like pretty old like road bike um didn't really have proper a proper like Tri suit it was just I remember having to like unpin my race number from one myit and then back again because I just I didn't didn't know about race you hadn't yeah why would you um but yeah kind of like I enjoyed it I enjoyed like the process I felt like a real like sense of accomplishment and then started to think oh what about swimming and then so like I like I was a pretty strong swimmer anyway but I hadn't swam in a pool for years thought oh it can't be that difficult it was and then I decided to you must have been not too bad because you've done some swimming before so that must big Advance yeah I was blessed with having good like stroke technique so it's just a case of like the fitness yeah like not being there um but it was yeah I think I started to do a couple of Sprint tries the first couple of those I found really difficult it was just you know the switching from one spot to another and it like like that transition was really difficult um but I think you that's one of the things that gets people really stressed out I think with first triathlons is the transition because it is like I've got to have everything ready and you know you you kind of want to set it out perfectly and it all to go right and you know quite often doesn't and even when you're like really experienced it can go a bit wrong sometimes as well yeah yeah so but it is like a stress point definitely what you kind of worried about in transition was there anything in particular or oh um you know what is I think every triath that I've done I've like picked up something that oh that would be helpful to bring so things like um like talcon powder putting that in your like shoes because you come out of the water and you got wet feet and then putting wet feet in it just yeah things like that helps um or oh it just like fueling I just never did the first and then you know I like it just wouldn't or I'd forget to like pick it up in transition or I carry it with me and they never have it and just things like that um would definitely be like learning curves because I think with uh with fueling you learn the hard way yeah it's one of those like oh yeah don't feel great I wonder why that is yeah and then for next time like okay I need to actually yeah take yeah and actually stick to it as well rather than just taking it with you and oh look I forgot to take yeah forgot to eat whatever I brought or drink whatever I drank or like um I think like actually after the things like after the swim like taking a wet suit off on the move was a whole big like thing just like it's not it's not something you do regularly is it like taking no taking up items of clothes like when you're running it's not something that you do no it's not it's like that's some there's so many things aren't there that kind of like that you don't that you you kind of progress into as you go through the sport and the first one you're just like trying to get through it without making some mist stake and just trying to finish the event aren you and then you kind up other stuff along the way but there is quite a lot that you can um add in and I think I think quite often people get stuck actually they kind of like go I don't need to do they get to a point where they're like well I don't really need to learn that because I'm not that fast do you find that do you do you see that people would will do that they'll go I'm not going to learn how to be more efficient in transition because it doesn't make a difference but actually it makes a massive difference I'm always talking I actually um I've had a conversation with one of my athletes about this actually and I was just looking at her some of her recent race results and for the the bits where she was you know um swimming cycling and running she was pretty much on a par with athletes around her but the transitions were significantly slower than everyone else I was just like what what H are you doing in there I know talk me through it because I'd love to know I know it's I think there is a bit of like oh I don't need to be that fast because I'm not that good I think some people have that mindset of like they're not they're not that good so they don't have to make an effort and transition it won't make a difference to My overall time but yeah like you say you know if she's on a par with the faster athletes then she could be up there just no I actually like worked out if if her transition times were um I think one of them in particular I think like T2 was like two minutes faster um so on par with other people she would have been three places higher yeah massive isn't it that's significant and like she's someone who's going for age group um stuff yes then it is important then it does matter yeah I know I know I don't know I don't I'm not sure why it is I think there is a little bit of mindset around it and sometimes people need to kind of think yes this isn't I need to practice it as well like practicing it in um you like you say with the with the wet suit taking the wet suit off it's not something that we do very often and to be honest it's not something that I practice either very often um I just would do it in races but it's probably something that you should if you go for Open Water Swim I guess you can do it like in just do it quick you might not be getting on your bike but just like try and get it off as quickly as you can yeah cuz like and also like if you just do it in like do it in like front room or something you're not simulating exactly how your body feels when it get when you immed get out the water it's likely that your hands are going to be cold your feet are going to be cold uh maybe going to be a little bit out of breath after a Open Water Swim generally your legs like Haven quite woken up yet I don't know whether that's just me but as soon as I finish an Open Water Swim and I start like having to like walk or run they take a while to like you know the Blood starts flowing back to them again um so yeah trying to do it after an Open Water Swim and trying to simulate as much as possible The Experience they would have on race day yeah I think does helps yeah for sure okay so we you did your duathlon um yeah your 10 10 40K 5K and then you decided you wanted to add some swimming into the mix so what happened next then um so I was yeah juggling um like those three Sports I and obviously working full-time as well which was a bit of a challenge um I signed up to a couple of Sprint triathlons did those really enjoyed them actually preferred the triathlon format to duathlon um I think yeah I think it's maybe the like I think running is probably not one of my strongest events whereas triath I think suited me better so I started to go down that more of that route um I did my first full distance triflin I think it was the London one actually okay um and you know like enjoyed it like it was it was hard but really enjoyed it and it was a really good introduction into that Community as well like these really really big events of lots of people doing a similar sport to you um and I yeah because I really enjoyed that but I think in the back of my mind like I was I think at that point I wasn't really aware of GBA group stuff but I think on that day I noticed people wearing the kit GB like the kit and the names on it and I was thinking like how do I yeah how do I do that like what like because they like they seem they seem really good and they're wearing the kit but like how how do I get to that like what's the process so that's when I started to look into so that was like your first triathlon then you saw that and and were inspired to yeah I was like looking around us thinking and and there was there all sorts of people there were people in these um the the gbh group kit but there are also people who you know did the cycle on Brompton sorts who were like who were like equally inspiring I'm like but good for you like you don't have to have you know all this like really fancy kit just do it on the know the bike that you commuted and I think that was a really good um you know insight into everyone can do it yeah like you don't you don't have to to have really expensive equipment and um sometimes there is that pressure or I feel like I need to have a triathlon bike or I feel like I need to have know this that the other you don't just think like have a look in your existing kit box what I what what you can probably use most of it in there and that's fine so um yeah I think that was a good way for me to see uh you know it like anyone can do it yeah definitely I think it can go the other way with kit as well I think I didn't get a good bike for ages because I'm like I'm not I don't need a good bike I'm not that good it was like no you really could get a new bike and it would make a difference I think yeah there's like got but yeah you do go to the events and and sometimes people notice all the gear and they're like oh my God I feel really like out of place because everyone's got this amazing kit and it's not true not everybody has amazing kit yeah often they're not that good that have some people that have amazing kit aren't even isn't it like really satisfying when you like overtake someone who's on a like a 10 grand bike and you're the one that you Canute on every day yeah definitely yeah for sure I think yeah it's a good point to that you know you don't have have all the gear so then you so you looked into GB age group and I'm assuming you kind of looked on the British triathon website or something like that to find to qualify quite complicated I find it quite complicated the kind of process um I lots of there's lots of like information on the British Tri website and it took me a long time so get my head around it and I think initially I I had to decide uh like what like First of like what the process is like what help do I need to like on that process and do like do I have capacity to take something like this on I was already sort pretty like committed to to doing it but I knew that my um my work week presented quite a few challenges I was pretty like time starved as it was so you know at the time I was like arranging a lot my own training that was taking a lot of like mental like headp space for me to figure out oh I can do that and then like I think I had the knowledge to make all these sessions but I was struggling to fit it all together um so I sought the help of a coach at that point they were very knowledgeable on the age group Journey and that and that really really helped and they you know just just someone telling you right on Monday do this Tuesday do that Wednesday do that great because if someone just tells me what to do I'll just do it and that's I'm very very consistent I just need someone just to tell me what to do and yeah and I started to make some improvements pretty quickly I I think set my mind to to do it um I think at the start of it was probably like in January and then I ended up doing some like qualifying competitions that summer um and obviously there's quite a long weit because you have to qualify one year and then you do the competition the following year so it's quite a long like build up to it um but I continued working with the same coach and did do for I think just over two years in the lead up to it through the qualifying competitions and then the event itself and that really helped just having the same person yeah like understanding like your situation and and what and your time availability and that kind of thing and knowing how you respond to training as well so did you qualify like the first how which events did you qualify in did you qualify straight away or was it did you so I think the the year that I did my first um the London Triathlon I think I did the same event the following year and I was looking at like my my results compared to other people in my age group I think I came maybe like seventh or so of my age group at that point I was like okay I'm a little bit way off so for those that like AR away you have to become in the the top four of the competition you aim to to qualify in or within 120% of the person who wins so it's a bit of like maths to do yeah I know I tried to work it out the other day with someone and I'm like because it's also like time as well it's not just like so it's um that's always like fun in games but so in that um triath I did uh in the London one I knew that I probably wasn't good enough at that point to qualify for the gbh group stuff but I wasn't like miles off and I think that's when I started think okay maybe okay if I get maybe if I get some external support IA coach then that will help with that process um so between like doing those two like London triathlons one year after the other I did a few other like local events and few Sprint triathlons um kind of just did did the best I could given my uh like really full-on work situation um and then when I then sought the help of a coach that's when my training really started to like ramp up yeah um so the aim of that year was to qualify for the European Standard distance Triathlon and like honestly I didn't think I was good enough to do it when I I like training's been going okay but you know what some of the women in my age group are really good um I had like proper which age group syr which uh it would be the 30 to 34 yeah it's a tough age group isn't it yeah yeah um and you know you sort of go to these competitions rack up your bike and then it I just be looking around thinking oh just oh I'm just not so out of place right now um but it's really funny because if you spoke to anybody there they'd probably say exactly the same yes they felt that exactly the same sort of situation I'm not sure if should be everyone's like looking at each other thinking the same thing I don't know whether that that trait is more common in people who have been socialized as female but probably I certainly see it a lot in my athletes as well just they they they a little bit of compare and despair like oh I'm just not good enough to do this or you know those like feelings of oh I'm not good enough to do that like seemed to be quite prevalent at least more prevalent in people who have been socialized as female but yeah and when you go to like you're saying earlier you go to the event and a lot of the people that are competing are men like there is still a majority that are men you go and they've got like all the gear and what have you and it's intimidate it can be like I should I don't know whether I should be here or whether this is my space or whether I'm I like to say whether I'm good enough that's a massive thing for so many people think they're not good enough you know something that we should say to ourselves every day is I am good enough I am enough I am enough yeah you deserve to be here you deserve yeah um so I went to I think I actually booked myself on two opportunities to qualify so usually every um every year for the event that you want to qualify for you have I think usually three events that you're able to attend and qualify for I signed up to two of them thinking I've got one to have a go at and I've got a backup one if I don't manage to do it there okay um but I I think it was a which one was it now oh it was leads actually so um was like the home of triathlon in the UK um did the the Le Triathlon I came second in my age group which meant I qualified for the the European championships it was a really really tough day out but I was really really proud of myself for uh I mean first of all getting around that run course CU my goodness was that difficult but expectations at that point what was difficult about it oh hilly okay hly just you get out of transition and there was a hill just like this right nice I was like great and I think it was a three or four lap course so you have to do it several times yeah and that doesn't that wasn't one Hill there was several many many Hills yeah all the Hills um so qualified in the the leads competition I then did a uh another Triathlon later that year and I think I came also in the top four there as well so I was like I'm great I'm going to the Europeans amazing um but I sat down and talked to my coach he said you know fancy you're trying to qualify for the World age group championships do you and this point I was like what like that was for me it was just like so yeah I you know I hadn't even thought about it as that being an option uh for me so I there was one remaining qualifying event that year it was in I think like three or four weeks time I just thought right I'm going G to do it go yeah Brave and go for it and had a a pretty like say O Okay um okay day and I was think I was pretty lucky with um who turned up to that qualifying event but I also qualified for the world championships as well yeah which and so like when I looked back at my season that year I just had like really like gone above and beyond what I thought I was able to and I'd really like you know picked off a lot of my season goals that year and I thought okay so I'm going to the European and World Championships next year this is just like Bonkers um so I had a really good like winter of training that really really motivated for it to be honest and worked really hard over the the winter and in the early spring I studi the courses in both of them and they were both very hilly courses especially the World Championships so I thought because of that it would be good for me to do some other triathlons which were similarly hilly like it it wouldn't have been beneficial for me to do a really flat course because all that would have told me is okay you can like you can do one on a flat course but what of our Hills so I signed up to a couple of events in Wales nice so um did the the Wild Flower do you ask oh yeah yeah yeah um and then I also did we went on holiday in Wales in the summer and and uh in like the bre and beakons so I was doing loads of cycling loads of like running out in the like out the hills and that was really really good so my whole whole year was like right where go holiday I can bring my bike where can I simulate like race conditions I was really like wanted to like do as well as I could is it flat where you live then is it quite flat yeah but I live in h like Central London so yeah it's there's there's a few tricky for training then to get out of London and things yeah um sometimes go out into like Epic hot for ship it's all is is flat there's no um the the course in Pedra had a a 3 to four kilometer climb at like 5% right and there's no one really can simulate that in in London or maybe in like Box Hill but like I live way away from sorry so it's not something I want to do every weekend um but yeah so I yeah I really really focus on those events I the Europeans were in Madrid and we're in June so that was my first experience of doing GB age group stuff and I mean I think because I've only ever done UK based like triathlons I think my experience there was I start to really really appreciate how well UK triathletes are organized okay because like and I think anyone who did go to uh the Europeans in Madrid can like they'll know what I mean by this um yeah it was like it was a good event and it was really good to meet all the age groupers it's a really big like GB contingency there um but the some of the coms from the race organizers just was was lacking slightly right okay there a last minute change going on yeah there well there's a last minute change to a duathlon and they they announced that in the morning of the race about an hour and a half before it started okay things like that it teaches you to be adaptable and resilient guess yeah I think at that point I was like okay right well that's how it is then I suppose everyone's in the same situation as well AR they like no one knows what's going on yeah exactly it's not great is it that's not what you want when you're getting ready for an important race kind of want to know exactly what's going yeah sometimes like you do some like know like race visualization beforehand so you sort of imagine you know what it's going to be like and uh of there was no swim so right see we had extra running but the the Run course was really really long so you know uh usually in a duathlon you do a longer run you cycle than a slightly shorter run for this one they did the shorter run bike and then the longer run but the the runs were actually too long like significantly longer they were meant to be I really figured this out on the first run when it was meant to be 5K but it was actually six and a half and I remember thinking oh no yeah because like pacing and things it makes a difference that doesn't it yeah exactly so but you know I got through the the race there and by some like miracle I actually managed to win it amazing which was yeah huge um but it almost didn't feel like a not not like I didn't like deserve the um the win because everyone is in the same boat but it didn't it was wasn't a triathlon so to call myself the European age group like yeah you just said your running was not your strongest uh discipline a minut I did a lot I've done a lot of work on my running right okay a lot since then okay yeah um but there's always back my mind thinking oh does that does it really count because it's not oh no yeah don't do that don't do that no yeah I thought like I can write some wrongs at the World Championships fingers cross the swim is on um so I competed in that in like the third week of September and the swim did go ahead um it was a very well organized event we had a great time yeah um and I mean I spent like the whole summer like building up to it I felt really really prepared for the event just mentally and physically I was like I'm ready to do this um and I end up coming second in my age group so wow when a silver medal really happy with that and just I think I had one of my most positive race experiences um that I had pretty much all of all of that season so with your training when you started training for you know to get those amazing results um you Chang you'd got a coach you still had you were still working full-time were you yeah yeah at that point so you were trying to kind of fit your training in as as best you could what was the difference then in your training like how did it feel different to how it was before yeah so i' would say every single session run by and swim had a very specific purpose so there wasn't a anytime I just know go out for a run yeah um there would be a very specific uh focus in terms of either if runs I'd have an interval Tempo session and long run every week I I just used to run three times a week and then the Cycles um I again you'd have more of an endurance focus a longer cycle and then two very specific um like interval type sessions which either like again threshold or tempo session uh and swims follow a very similar format as well so again like every every session I was like I knew what I had to do yeah which made it mentally easier uh for me to just go out and do what I needed to do um I didn't have to think about um didn't have to yet didn't think had to think about the session and because it was like written out for me like sometimes I would adapt them um because either I wanted to make the session I sometimes I made the sessions harder I thought you know I feel really good right now yeah so I'm going to make I'm G adapt it so that it includes this or I could feel that like in in the latter months in the lead up to the um world championships I thought my running was really really coming on but I need to stretch myself a bit more so I increased the the Run volume that CU I feel like my my body could take it um but I've also adapted them to like decre the volume or or intensity based on like fatigue levels like you know work stress um you know fluctuated but in weeks where there was a lot of stuff at work going on I knew know your body can't differentiate between the stress it feels that work and the stress it feels with exercise so that's always a bit of a balancing act as well it's not just the training side of things you have to factor in the your your body feels stressed in other ways as well so I just like tweak it based on that yeah I think people underestimate that they kind of comp compartmentalize things so they say this is my training so I should be able to do everything on there whatever else is going on in my life what whether I've had enough sleep in or not whether I ate in enough for you know all those things and and they'll think it's a separate thing but it really isn't you know your your life is like all interconnected and something goes off somewhere and you have to kind of comp compensate somewhere else so it's always like a juggling act with all sorts of things it's like when I was training a lot and kind of that was my focus the house was not you know getting tidied up very often and the garden was a met you know it's all those things things have to give for you to be able to um put something into your life you have to maybe back off something else and you can't do everything all of the time and I think some people just still try to or they think that it's important to keep every all of the balls up in the air all the time and it's like no you you can't do that all the time you're just gonna get exhausted and and Burn yeah and like I felt as well that like the last like year or so I've been doing a lot of work on like tracking my cycle and seeing how those like when I feel like I can push my body more and when actually I need to really listen to it and actually take some rest so I've got a lot better at that over the last like year or so and I see my individual patterns so I'm able to like even not even just with training but just with like life stuff like when when would be a really good time for me to do some more social activities when would be a time when actually I probably need to just have a like have some like nights in and just rest and that's the best thing for me to do then I don't I don't need to say yes to all these plans I can just say say actually no um maybe we can do it in a couple of weeks time like you don't have to justify it to say actually no actually now's not a good time next few few weeks time would be great yeah because it's a temporary thing as well it's to remember isn't it sometimes if you don't track your Psy you feel awful and you think I'm gonna feel awful like this forever and I'm never going to do anything ever again well that's what how I get sometimes um but yeah I think definitely like and even like going for a run you know I I used to noticed that there was certain runs that I was like I don't want to go that way because I might see someone or something do you know I just want to be on my own like running on my own and not see anybody on this run so certain times of my cycle I would just like pick different routs because I didn't want to bump into anyone I suppose in London you can't you don't have that luxury yeah yeah um I think yeah it depends I guess like certain times the day you can you can try there are peak times a day where you're likely to see lots of people um but yeah I think like I definitely adapted my training based on that like not like there's there is some scientific research to suggest that certain training types are beneficial at different points in the cycle um I think sying your cycle and training is is good but I think also need to take it with a pinch of salt sometimes in that some if you look at the research studies there's a fair bit of like individual variation with between the participants so if you just have a look at the the averages of all that data it can be quite misleading so um know you need to figure out what works for you and if know there be different points in the cycle where we have increased energy levels you feel like you're more outgoing and you can go out and do things more and and there'll be other times where um you might feel like the whole world is collapsing in on you you go from one one day to another and it can just be like that um and like you said before the like knowing that these that emotional state is is temporary um and you can recognize that in in previous Cycles no noticing the patterns really really helps you know on I say day uh day 16 I always feel like rubbish right I feel like that every single time but if you look at the what my hormones may be doing around that time just after ovulation there's a really like sniffing and dropp in hormones so having low hormones like no wonder I'm feeling like that yeah yeah like helps with my relationship as well you know it's like I can explain it like I'll get really annoyed about silly things like whereas other times it doesn't bother me it's just like why did you do that why did you leave that why would you do that but and I and then I can kind of like listen to it in my head and go that's because you're feeling very and I can kind of like still just a sometimes not all the time I can let it go but and then I realize like why I'm doing that and I think my husband knows now as well a little bit yeah why that's happening and why I'm being a pain in the ass basically sometimes it's it's always funny where like Partners recognize their pattern as well one thing my father said the other day was um like like I was I was having a really like hung a couple of days and he said um yeah you're always really hungry at this at this point of your cycle and I was like no I'm not and then I look through my look through my notes I'm like yeah he's right I love the way you just no I'm not I was doing that the other day with pastor we were having like pastor and I think I must have come in I was starving and I was like why are you boiling the water like that it's like for God's sake Del yeah I mean why would you put a pan like why would you do anyway it's pathetic um yeah so that's really good that you know you you started in I'm conscious of time so I'm gonna try and kind of wrap things up a little bit but so you you talked a little bit about your menstrual cycle and you had some kind of frustrations with that you it sounds like you were doing a good job of adapting things and kind of changing your training for that um so that kind of LED you more that I I I felt like I wasn't getting that support from my coach they were really really good at outlining the sessions but when it came to you know I'd write um in my training notes that adapted this session because of it could be uh you know I get some really really severe psychor related symptoms from like day one to three and it really really affects me so I you know write about that in the notes I've adapted this session because of this um and it wasn't addressed it wasn't it wasn't as like a talking point um and I just thought okay so if I'm not maybe adding the support that I I need like here I'm going to seek it from elsewhere so I see actually the book Raw on your book that's one I read along with um period Power by Maisy Hill which is a fantastic um book um and I think that really started me on my journey of understanding my cycle better and then think you know I know I can't be alone in think in feeling like this you know my I think my next um know Big Challenge is going to be like how I can support other people do the same which again they started me off on the journey becoming a a triathlon and running coach and specifically for like supporting females to do the same yeah yeah so with your TR coaching you then you do monitor people's cycles and you help people to understand about their like when they're feeling better and than they track do they with that so yeah um I like one of the things I I'll talk to him about is like I want openness from you so I want you to know write down in your training notes like like reflect on it is there anything that might have impacted your motivation or performance or something during that session you need to tell me just be just be open about it so um I I give an example like I'm working with someone at the moment she's a a marathon runner um in a second marath Marathon block of this uh of this summer um but she experiences very very severe psych related symptoms like nausea vomiting all sorts um and something we talk about on a regular basis is how she can manage symptoms as well as continue with her training and racing um and know she's asked questions about that's like really practical things like so a marathon is a long it's a long day out so um like what what should I do in terms of like managing um uh like sort of like period products on the day like do you have any suggestions so things like tampons like you may not have access to a like a toilet facility for quite some time like for some people that's that's too long especially if they have like a heavy period and like you can't guarantee that you'll be able to and you don't to worry about it you really just don't want to worry about it so they gave us some like practical advice about you know trying out menstrual cups or other different products that she could use and you know trying that in training first so when she came to like racing then you know hopefully that would that would help yeah so it's just having like an open conversation about it I'm not uh not shy about it I will just ask uh yeah what's going on with you yeah yeah I think that's important and it's kind of easier maybe for some women to talk to a female coach about that kind of stuff because I I was quite happy to kind of put in that I got PM to you know like got really bad crap I remember doing a park run once and it was just like oh god really bad cramps and because it's like high intensity it felt pretty bad but then you don't get a response back you're like okay maybe I shouldn't talk about this so I think it's you know we do need to be open about it and have conversations about it because it can massively impact your performance and if we don't talk about it then like you say you don't find the solutions do you you you're just kind of left wandering okay and then thinking well nobody else is having a problem with this everyone else must be coping fine because we're not really talking about it but I think no people aren't always and people often have really good ideas and really good advice that you can kind of tap into and and share like the menstrual cups that's something that I've been using for years now because just so much easier and then like the period pants yeah and then also there are so many companies now coming up everywhere now like these products and like yeah you don't have to stick with what you've always done there are products now that you can try yeah there's a lot now I see went in M&S yesterday and they were selling the period pants I was like oh God I didn't know oh well they were selling them in in there as well um but yeah they're really good especi like now because I'm my periods are all over the place now because I'm getting older and it's just like that if you can use those products I think they're a lot better when your period's a bit weird and kind of like you don't know when it's starting and stopping and it's really heavy sometimes isn't it's just yeah that those kind of things can really help you yeah and actually on that point um like if we think the like menual Cycles are a taboo topic I would say per menopause menopause is even more so I think so many people stumble into per menopause not really knowing what the hell is going on yeah so yeah it's like I mean thankfully there is some more literature coming out and but I think there still needs a a greater degree of like education on that as well and like especially women a lot of people don't know know what they're they don't I mean I think I sort of like I I kind of was aware of it and then I was like oh something's happening and then like I like to research everything so I find out everything I can but you know part of you doesn't really want to either because I think people are like oh God I'm getting off older I don't really want to deal with that or face that so there can be a bit of avoidance and like not wanting to attribute it to the fact that you're getting older and things are going to change and you're not who you I mean you're always going to be who you are but you're not able to recover you know there's things that happen definitely um and it's yeah it's part of aging so you know in the west we're terrified of aging and it's like anything we can do to kind of stop it but at the end of the day it's like it's going to happen and if you can like accept it and embrace it and get through it in the best way that you can um keep doing the things that you love then yeah I think it's um it's it's funny uh like the the attitudes towards it because you can like you'll start going through uh per menopause and menopause and then you look really fondly back at the time that you used to have periods I can't imagine a time where I'd enjoy this aspect of it but um yeah I quite used to like when it was regular like because at the moment it's not like because I don't know where I am now it's really confusing I'm like well am I just feeling like that or should I not be or why is my period just started or when's it going to start and so it's a bit like you don't really know where you are and then there's like yeah I remember people going oh it's great you know you w have periods anymore it'll be great when your periods stop I'm thinking I don't know if that is great or not yeah is it a good thing I don't know yeah I think well there's there's huge benefits of having a a cycle you know given like the power of estrogen which yeah I like to call estrogen the Beyonce hormone like in the first um like phase of the cycle you know that estrogen increases and it's the like predominant hormone during that phase it you know it boosts your mood it boosts motivation my skin always looks really good skin looks great and then like when it starts to like dip off again you just think no I want it back I know definitely yeah that's yeah it's it's interesting though isn't it I think it's amazing that we go through that cycle as well like every month that we can experience that I mean that's quite cool really to to go through those changes and have to adapt and deal with them and uh the more you can actually tap into it the better really rather than sort of pretending it's not happening or avoiding it or you know it's it's incredible really your body and your hormones and how it all works together yeah I think when people think about their Cycles as well they often just think about their period and it's very centered around that their experience of that so if they have a very bad experience of um their period either that you know it being sever psych related symptoms or or whatever it is cramps heavy bleeding like whatever they tend to have a poor view of like the rest of it you know spend like the week before dreading its arrival and probably the week after like recuperating you know its arrival as well so um as in the literature is interesting they don't tend to call it a menstrual cycle they call it an ovulatory cycle right okay so they focus on ovulation being the you know the star of the show way of looking on it being like menstration focused like without ovulation you actually won't get a period because that that's the thing sort of initiate that you know that to start happening so and all you know all the stuff that goes on around opulation and the hormones involved there's some there's some like huge ways that you can like harness harness your like hormones in that way yeah definitely awesome okay um so yeah we we're kind of like getting with we we've gone a bit over but that's okay is there anything else that you wanted to kind of add or talk about um you want to let people know where they can find out more about your coaching and you as an athlete uh I'll put some stuff in the show notes anyway I'll put some links there but if you want to just let people know yeah sure um so um you can find me on um socials on Instagram my handle is@ TR coach Courtney um I also have a website uh the same thing TR coach cy.com um I offer onetoone Triathlon and running coaching and I specifically work with female athletes who want to work with their cycle awesome okay okay well it's really been great chatting to you today and I hope you have a lovely rest of your day and I'm sure people will want to find out more about what you do yeah thank you thanks so much for having me no worries thank for listening today have a great day take care bye for[Music] now