Episode #12 - Kelly Smith - "Breaking Barriers: The Black Tri Tribe's Mission to Diversify Triathlon"

In this episode, I chat with Kelly Smith, founder of The Black Tri Tribe, a trailblazing triathlon club dedicated to increasing entry-level participation for the Black community in the sport.
 
The Black Tri Tribe is proud to be a triathlon club specifically designed for People of Colour, providing a supportive and welcoming environment where the community can thrive.
 
Join us as we discuss Kelly's mission to pave the way for a more diverse triathlon community.
 
Discover how The Black Tri Tribe is breaking barriers, fostering inclusivity, and inspiring a new generation of triathletes.
 
Tune in and be inspired by their journey and vision for a more inclusive future in triathlon.

Kelly Smith is the proud founder of The Black Tri Tribe. She is a fitness and outdoors enthusiast who passionately embraces an active lifestyle, for health and wellness. As an avid hiker, walker, swimmer, and cyclist, Smith constantly seeks new adventures and challenges. Whether on a mountain trail, in open water, or competing in entry-level triathlons, she finds peace outdoors. Smith's dedication extends beyond personal pursuits as she aims to foster community and promote diversity in the world of swimming, biking, and running.

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Transcript

0:03

[Music] hi I'm tiia boothman founder of LTR coaching and I'd like to welcome you to the inspired triathletes podcast where I'll be bringing you stories from female triathletes and taking on topics that are important to women in the sport hi and welcome to this week's episode I'm here with Kelly Smith from the black Tri tribe did I get that right yes I wrote it down and I was like I can't read my hand writing now um so it's great to have you on you've got loads of energy and I've just you know had a quick chat with you and I can feel that coming across so I really want to dig into how you kind of got started with your Tri Club what was it what was the story behind starting it up um and kind of what inspired to create it and what well if it's quite a lot of questions but they kind of into each other and it's core values and Mission um to start with so if you just want to go ahead and introduce yourself and and how you got into setting up a tri Club yeah so hey I am Kelly Smith I the founder of the black Tri tribe uh um we we got started um just after Co actually so we weren't one of the co clubs we were one of the postco clubs in 2022 back in 2021 um I went on a triy FL and this is a try that I'd been to I think I'd been to once before and I'd have a really good experience with them really local charity event um and I had a great time and a few friends I kept try quite personal to me because most of my Instagram at the time was about hiking so I thought try will be my thing I'm not sharing it with any one it'll be my thing I train alone I do it alone it's my baby um I still treat it a little bit like that but a few people caught on and they were like we seen you every so often come out with these cool medals what is it that you do um so I was like oh I do this thing called trifon and a lot of people couldn't even say the word to begin with um so I was just like okay so they were like oh could we do the next one with you and I was like well actually I've got a small charity Sprint coming up like if you want to come along and do it um and they did and I had a blast and then I found out um they weren't as kind to everybody else as they was to me um not everybody had the same warm welcoming experience um a few people were sent in the wrong direction on the bike course um and as an event organizer I can now empathize because I understand how difficult it is but also at that time I just thought my people deserve better um it was it was a clear disservice um not just to other women but to other black people it was a mixed group um and then we found out our our group picture that we took was on the website a couple weeks later all right okay so what do you mean by they didn't have there wasn't a warm welcome what happened um there some examples yeah I think is very polite so I think um often when England when English people talk about racism I worked in LA in 2015 and um it's very different it's very different there Americans are very Brash they're very you know loud and they're very upfront about whatever they feel and however they feel it so on the public forum I know this is going on YouTube I know some people might say well that doesn't sound that bad like what I can't understand the problem but I think um English people are quite polite you know no one's going to come up to you and say I outright don't like you um that's not and especially not the southern way things are done um things are very subtle things are very um nuanced um things are very uh discreet and I think especially if I compare my experience and I've been there before so if I compare my experience to other experiences um just a welcome just a hello just uh this is where you rack your bike this is oh you're taking part to just the assumption that they weren't taking part even with a number on even with a yeah yeah even with cat and a truit um the Assumption was still that they weren't a part of the festivities so not been given help and support really um as new people into and but you had a different experience so did you do you think into it a bit more confidently as well do you think you kind of like had the confidence to go in there and be like yeah I'm doing I think it's difficult because um so I've done hiking cycling swimming all of the things for a very long time the only thing I'm really new to is running I I I'm still an awful Runner I wouldn't consider myself a runner at all um so I think there's there's almost a known when when you're the only black person in the room people very quickly know who you are yeah so it was very for for a few years it was just me and my dad's doing triathlons together so people very much got used to who my dad was they got used to who I because they so even if they didn't know me personally they knew who I was yeah um and and news in the triathlon World spreads quite quickly also so um people knew what club I attended people knew who I was um and and therefore I got a much warmer welcome I think also I think I can't remember at that particular event but at most events I wear how would you say um branded okay quite well branded kit yeah if not bright and tri club kit so you look the part as well the yeah and if you're wear wearing a t-shirt and short you know like not necessarily looking like you're going to be doing a triathle and that might have another impact as well yeah definitely so I think through that kind of lens of like I want to help and support these people and and en them to have a better experience than they had and and give them a bit more support to to get started than than they might have had is that yeah and I think also out of hiking I would say my biggest frustration um and I think it was just the to be honest the event that wasn't that big the event had maybe a hundred people um it was a small community charity event and I had been doing hiking at that point for about three years and baring in mind i' I'd hiked since childhood I did do cedra I did cadetes I did all of that stuff I was just so sick of environments that I had been in alone and been warmly welcomed and really encouraged and then as soon as I bought other black people along with me the feedback was completely different and I just could it I just at that point it was that event that was just the straw that broke the camel back and I was just I'm sick of it I'm over it so that is how the black Tri tribe was born um so in the September of 2022 we put out a research project and in our study I sort of wanted to understand what was missing because to me everything was already there so what is it that people didn't experience what is it that people didn't know that was when I started to find out about fun her TR and other amazing organizations 10 and women what is it that was missing from the industry at the present moment and what could be done if I'm going to create this Tri Club Let It Be representative of the people that I'm trying to embrace yeah um so we got back I would say 67 67 responses nice in those 67 responses we got a lot of feedback in addition to those 67 responses we did a about 10 um 10 qualitative interviews okay what didn't people enjoy give me your negative experiences give me your positive experiences we've had people that have been doing try since 98 and um I want to know all of those stories I also want to know the detailed stories of people that have tried to get into try and then end up not turning up on race day what happens from the beginning to the end all of that put together created the black Tri tribe oh amazing um and we had our first event in June of 2023 in Brighton yeah um we had our first set of training sessions in May of 2023 that included swimming and cycling to begin with um because we were already doing the walks yeah the main outcomes were that people wanted to have an entry Gateway yeah and at the time British Trion had something called go try which is a shame they scrapped it yeah um do that go try it was really good um and they've now got whatever they've got but I don't know what they've gotten anym yeah what they've got what we did is we said okay what is entry level what what is really entry level what is achievable for an average person not someone that goes to the training Club every week and I I'll tell you a story about that in a moment but um for an average person that's going to tesos what made park run so successful is that it doesn't matter if it takes you 20 minutes to do a 5k or

two hours to do a 5k from 9: 10:12

00 a.m. they'll be there and they'll be with you um and how do we translate that over to Triathlon what makes entry level so we made we asked people what distance would be doable um and I put everything from 25 M to 1,500 M okay and we got back 100 m was a challenge for people and I was shocked I'm gonna be honest I thought I thought a Sprint was entry level I thought a Sprint was light um initially for Brighton 23 I wanted a Sprint distance and an Olympic distance that's what I thought was I thought was doable um prior to starting this recording we were talking about me doing my first Iron Man so my concept of of entry level has really had to shift yeah it's changed because you get used to the distances don't you and you're like yeah that's just normal to swim that's the standard and that's exactly what it's called it's called a standard distance um so we found 100 meter swim was achievable with cycling we found that it was a lot more um a lot more what I thought it would be people were very happy with the 20K 40K distance but actually a good number of people were okay with a 10K distance and they thought that was a challenge um then came at the end um what would people feel comfortable with the biggest consensus is that people wanted to continue walking the people that I'd been walking with for the three to four years prior to setting up BTT they wanted to carry on walking and actually they said why do we need to run you don't run so why do we um so that's why we introduced the BTT special which is a 100 meter swim a 10K bike and a 1K walk now you can run it if you really want to but we encourage people to walk it um just so that it's something that people can really feel entry level about them and the reason why we encourage walking is because we don't want people to feel what often happens is you see someone else running and you say oh I I have to run R and and we didn't want that so we actively encourage walk with the BT special so that's sort of how we started where we are and how we got so cool that's really amazing cuz yeah I I guess for swimming you know swimming is like for a lot of people it's one of the more challenging disciplines like getting to the pool and you know if you've not swm much at all or you've not swm in school and you know some people don't even learn to swim in school there's just a massive barrier there with swimming um and do you find that's like a bigger barrier with with your group do you think H so um that was the the other main topic on the questionnaire what is your what is uh what is the biggest thing stopping you from entering a triathlon and it was swimming yeah um then we did some more research we um consulted other groups in the space fund her try found out uh women don't feel included in Triathlon we had conversations around that we found out that um black swimmers Association did some research into black people in Aquatics 96% of black swimmer black people in the UK cannot or do not swim right um sport England then repeated or sport UK repeated that research this year which is 2024 and they found that 97% it got worse 97% of black people cannot or do not swim so so BSA were actually quite accurate in their first in first analysis um and and the research has continued and we're not talking about small bodies of research we're talking about over 4,000 people were interviewed or or asked in questionnaires so um yeah my my research 67 people was was was in my opinion quite small but theirs was quite extensive and we all are coming up with the same conclusions um that being said we then looked at okay if if swimming is the entry level to try and it's the biggest barrier what's happening so we spoke spoke to swim England and we discussed the landscape of swimming at the moment and we talked about how um pool time is tight across the country pools are closing down and astronomical rate and actually um what does that look like for the average consumer so that means that from that 5 p.m. to 700 p.m. slot all pools across the country are absolutely Ram yeah um and if everybody's competing for that same slot what hope is there for someone that's 45 trying to get back into Triathlon just as a as a hobby um and then I looked into the triathlon space more specifically um and what entry level is for triy so actually before I joined Brighton Tri Club I had already done a few triathlons um and I still had a long way to go so I even after I joined Brighton Tri Club I am one of the if not I will say I'm one of the slowest swimmers in my entire club right um and if I'm one of the slowest swimmers in my entire Club how does that make my members feel and how would that make them feel when joining or trying to join a tri Club it's not their ability it's actually what point is entry level um I then investigated into what is an acceptable speed and distance for swimming and a lot of Tri clubs consider that entry level participation and not even just Tri clubs the whole of the sector I would say for leisure consider entry-level participation as swim teaching not coaching right whereas our approach is completely different these people can already swim but they might swim like this yeah they they might just about get one arm over the other and that contrary to popular belief is swimming yeah it might just look a bit different yeah then we looked at the culture of swimming so I didn't grow up swimming in England I grew up swimming in the Caribbean and that is very much swim for play whereas swim swimming in England is laps and it's very much 25 me go up you come down and that's your lot um you if you get a good Leisure Center you might get a bit of diving in there but that's about as far as it goes um and that just wasn't my experience growing up so I think all of those nuances added together to feed what is now the black Tri tribe yeah yeah okay yeah so with I just I'm interested in swiming because I think I have heard that those statistics before and I'm just like that's that's crazy that it's like that and and I just want have you any idea why I mean you've talked about culturally there's differences but do you think there's anything else going on oh yeah um there was a campaign so I did I do um equality and diversity inclusion consultancy for outdoor spaces and there was several campaigns run by the BBC in the 70s and 80s declaring that black people couldn't swim really there are several adverts um and and it's so interesting because there's people over the age of 40 remember it like it was yesterday my god um there were several adverts in newspapers teachers were actively telling their black students don't bother trying this because we know your kind cannot um so so all that's now now now we're talking about people that might today be in their 40s 50s or 60s yeah so yeah so we're now talking about parents can I remember any of yeah so so we're talking about parents and grandparents now so if we're at Grand parent stage we've now had three generations of black people not swimming yeah um which has just created a whole culture um and then we we have to look at the global sphere um there were there were many things globally that were going on in Leisure spaces which meant that black people didn't engage um no blacks no dogs no Irish specifically in the UK I think often when um this topic comes up it it often either goes straight to America or straight to South Africa because that's what people remember uh whereas England has its history of its own and and it's important to talk about that in its own rights um I'm really lucky that I am English I grew up in England but I spent a lot of time in the Caribbean so my uh relationship with outdoors with hiking with sports with swimming isn't that of my English born peers um so and I take that as a great privilege um and I appreciate that that will definitely alter the lens at which I approached this conversation which is why I had to do the research I'm not going to sit here and pretend like I had all the answers I often say in these sorts of conversations there are two types of black people there are black people that are going to do what they're going to do anyway I am one of those yeah it doesn't it doesn't bother me that I'm the only black person in the room um and and prior to setting up black Tri tribe and joining other groups um it it never did bother me I didn't I if I'm honest I didn't even notice um however as soon as the pandemic happened it then became alarmingly apparent for me that this thing has happened and then it became almost like an urgent alarm Bell in me that something had to change um and and this is where we are okay so you the pandemic kind of prompted you to go and try doing a triathlon that was is that is that right that no I would say the pandemic prompted me to realize that other black people weren't doing it not because they didn't want to they they couldn't they they felt there were many many barriers as to why they couldn't okay okay yeah no it's interesting because you say there's two type of black people I said the two type of every because there's you know I face barriers as well I'm not not the same but we all do because of the way see life and the way all the influences that we've had during our life and and what we absorb and what we take on and then there's a there's some people that will go this is my box this is my Lane I'm going to stay in it and there's other people that will go hang on a minute those people are doing that and these people are doing that and I want to have a go at that and they're not going to take notice of the or they're going to pay less attention to those kind of outside influences and but those people that are kind of like stuck in their Lane they need that help which you're providing in an amazing way to help them see that actually you don't have to stay in that kind of narrow bandwidth of what you're supposed to do or what you're expected to do so that's I think the best example of that at the moment is running and I think running has absolutely taken off and actually um I hear lots of conversations especially we I know when this will be released but at the moment we're in a political period where we're having a change in government we're having a general election soon and um we're seeing everybody needs representation and I say that to say whether you know that you need the representation or not is a completely different topic yeah yeah but lots of people need it so so for me and in running um when you make something more inclusive for the most minoritized person if you think of a person of color who is disabled and a woman if you make it accessible for them then it's accessible for everybody else and actually it opens the door for everybody to take part um and I often hear well you know you're doing things for these people and you're doing things for that people I really try and strip it down to basic things like do you remember when um I think it was 2007 where they made ramp access to shops compulsory and I remember we all kicked off and we said shopkeepers are going to have to spend all this money and and now it's just a standard there's just ramp access wherever you go and what does that mean it's not only accessible for disabled people it means it's accessible for mothers it's access it's accessible for prms it's accessible for scooters it's all these different subject areas now become inclusive just because you've implemented a ramp um which might have been for disabled people initially but the intersectionality of of inclusion ends up bringing in more and I think the best area that that has been seen is running running is now everybody oh it's sexy to run now everybody's running um that's good I went for a run today oh wonder I'm going for a run after this so yeah no it it wasn't it wasn't that way at one point in time and it's nice to see the tide change it's nice to see um Things become more inclusive and what happens when that happens is that everyone gets included so um the biggest question I get on Facebook is um how divisive I am and you know you're terrible you're a horrible person and I can't believe you've done this thing and you're bringing back apartheid um and if people took two seconds to look at our content right they would realize that there are white people at our events and often what you tend to get is white people that are just a bit more nervous or might not or local and might want a local Triathlon that's not as big people that have got autism people that are a little bit slower actually that might not want to feel like they're in a competitive race but they still want to take part when you make it inclusive for black people which is what I'm concentrated on it then opens the door for everybody else yeah and I hope this is what will come out of this interview yeah I mean it's similar it reminds me of the the thing with um you know women only events for example and people say oh you shouldn't have women only events and this that you then actually my husband is going to a man talk tonight because he needs his his dad died a few months ago and he needs to talk you know so yeah and it's like they've set up a man's walking group and a man's talk and I think we do need those spaces which are like for people who are very similar and have the same kind of fears and anxiety and and have and have experience things in the same way so that you can relate and you don't feel like you're the only one and I don't think that that is a negative thing to say this is for these kind of people because you're bringing them up you you're boosting those people and then you know they then feel more confident to maybe like integrate into other groups and not so kind of put off it just it brings people's confidence levels up and I think it's a good thing always to to have those but I remember you know being asking about it at one point I wanted to find some women's only thing and they were like no we don't do that because it's you know women should be able to do this with men and it's like this different environment you just get a completely different vibe different vibe not always what you want and it's not always helpful to people who are lacking a bit of confidence um we had a a talk at Brighton Tri Club um and it was an informal chat you know after a training session on what different genders can considered to be fun and um we were talking about the swim and we were talking about how the guys love the swim and they love the Rough and Tumble and you know the boys were all getting excited like I love it you know bit elbow in here you know you get dunked a bit there and they got all so EXC and there were about I would say seven women and their faces were completely white yeah just horrified absolutely appalled at the conversation and I mean they weren't talking to each other they were just standing staring and listening to this conversation of a group of guys at our club talking about what they enjoy about try um and then another lady who's a little bit more vocal on the committee spoke up and she said do you realize that other women find this absolutely frightening I can't remember her wording but she was just like do you know that this puts women off yeah and all of the guys sort of got a bit CAU and they were a bit nervous and they were like well no I never thought about just do the innocence of it I never considered it and they like do you know it's gravado as well like you know it's they don't actually like it because I know my husband doesn't like I try and avoid that if possible and and most people I speak to don't really like it it could be just like a group of men together and they can go off together go first go do that they probably don't as well you know sometimes you hear that talk and that's what I learned you know when I was kind of getting into Triathlon you'd hear people talk like that and I think guys do when they get together not not all guys but because I don't know kind but they do kind of like one up and and and they talk a lot of [ __ ] sometimes and it's just like it's offputting and it does freak you out I just used to go there talk I I would have to tell myself this is what they're doing yes it's not real it's just no how they talk to each other and how they communicate it's not it shouldn't affect me and I would walk away or just like try and not listen or something it's always at the start of a race as well you're like oh my God and what I would say to that is is um similar the same and I think the reason why I often bring up women um because I think we're now at a point where people understand there was a point where Women's only was a big controversy you know why do you need a woman only space Oh you can join us I think women's spaces are now becoming accepted I think we're getting to a point where people understand it I think race based spaces are still quite controversial yeah um and I don't think there's been the education piece around why um race based specific spaces and representation in that way is um is is needed and why it's important and I think when I bring it back to women or something generic like ramp access or even smoking if you would have thought however many years ago that you could ban smoking in a pub you would have thought that was nuts um and now it's just general practice what does that mean that means more children can attend more it can become a family place you know it it just becomes a lot more inclusive for everyone um and there are so many examples I can give but Triathlon um has a long way to go um is a large larger conversation um it it does have a long way to go with understanding inclusivity and what is okay and what isn't okay um and I think us as a club I'm trying to reach out to as many people as possible I'm only one person yeah but yeah well whatever you do is going to have a ripple effect as well you know you everyone that you come into contact with is going to take something away and take that somewhere else and you know it it's like it just expands one person starts and then it it just it gets bigger and it will it gains momentum and I think the things that you said about the you know black only spaces I guess the PE the reason people might have a reaction against is because of the history isn't it it's like whoa hang on a minute well do you know what I mean it's like not I think see it different way yeah I think when we talk about race people see it as I'm saying you're a bad person you you are personally responsible it's your nobody's talking about you and if and if you think we're talking about you then maybe that's something you need to address that's not for me to address um so I think often when when the conversation gets all because another conversation that came up when I first started black Tri tribe I asked Brighton Tri club and I said um you know how do you guys I approached my chair I approached one of the main head coaches and I had a conversation with both of them and I had a couple sit Downs actually before it went public and I was like are you sure you're okay with this and then finally the chair of my club at the time called me and he said Kelly Stop asking me he was like just do it just do it um he was like if anyone at the club has a problem he was like usually what you'll find about racists is that they're genuinely not nice people anyway he was just like and they've got a problem with you that means that they have a problem with us and then that's a problem in itself so so that would be what we would address rather than the particular issue they have with you so I'm I'm really grateful for the stance Club took I'm really grateful for the approach that they had and it was actually really nice uh because both of those men are white that it came from them and that the understanding was just there and it showed me from the offset that it's not lack of understanding it's just people choosing to be willfully ignorant um and and you and and in this day and with all the education and all the access to education that we have you're choosing not to understand and that's where I've gotten to on that conversation and being feeling threatened and just insecure as well you know that that can also happen with those people yeah and it's not it's not about it's not about you once I think not about you about you it's about that definitely that's why does it bother you it's yeah in a city like Brighton where I think we've got four Tri clubs down here why does it bother you that you can't attend my one my one one out of four yeah yeah yeah you had three others why do you want to be at mine exactly yeah that that's that's my Approach that's cool that sounds good it sounds like you've dealt with that very well thank you um so yeah we kind of covered a little bit but I'm gonna ask you a cover my questions so we kind of gone a bit yeah no it's it's good it's good because it's easier to kind of chat then um but we did talk a little bit about challenges but my other question is what are some of the unique challenges that female triathletes of color face in the sport and how does your Club support members through these challenges so we talked a little bit about swim but is there anything else that yeah so yeah um the main thing that we do um which I introduced from the offset was panel discussions in quite a formal and structured way um um the reason why is because I wanted people to know that their voices outside of the annual questionnaires that we now do so it started off as a opening thing in 2020 two yeah started off as an opening thing in 2022 but actually now we've become it we we do it quite regularly where we take surveys and membership audits um I wanted people to know outside of that that they had a chance to ask questions so we did two panel discussions in 2023 this year we have done one two we'll be doing four okay um we've done our first one virtually which was quite nice um I've never done that before um and and it's really about firstly the panel is always made up of three to four people that are a mix of government sport specific so a national governing body or a um Authority on sport um a brand and then a Community member so that might be someone from the BTT committee it might be someone from just a member um giving their opinion on sport giving their opinion on try and giving feedback so the first ever panel discussion that we had was in July of 2023 and it was around um how to dive diversify the sport of try and there were so many things that came up one of the biggest questions that I didn't expect was where do you get changed and I was like oh you get changed in transition and they said so you want me to get naked outside and I thought oh like that you know and they were like so let me understand so everybody's just outside just getting changed and I was like yeah well that's just how it works um and that didn't go down too well right so so um again when we did our well we had it at our first event but second and third event second third and fourth events we've now had to incorporate modest changing yeah my family are seven-day Adventists um not a lot of people know that a lot of people think that the rules that I introduce or the policies that I introduced are very Muslim based um but my my dad's side of the family on 7-Day Adventist so it's very much to respect um that culture and what they would do um and how they would um want to conduct themselves okay which just so happens to benefit Jewish women that benefits Muslim women that benefits Christian women again uh the the the side effects are great for everybody um so yeah changing was one of the biggest questions that came up initially the second question that came up that was huge was U what do we do with our hair because a lot of events give out caps for different waves whereas actually the Caps can't fit a lot of black hair so I had long locks longer locks I I cut off my locks in last month a couple months ago so my hair's growing back but usually you wouldn't be able to fit my hair in a regular swimming cap or if I had braids or anything like that so that that was a topic that came up then it was do you take a shower so culturally before and after when black people get in the pool we take showers whereas that's not the same for everybody so they like hold on first of all you don't want me to shower then you want me to get naked outside asking me to do um they were very and and the these were all reasonable concerns so it was very much explaining how the sport Works um and also when when making our events incorporating that in so yeah no what else have we so the panel just discussions Aquatics we've had one on um try generically we've had another one on a try this year just gone in January we had one specifically around hiking and walking um we've got an Aquatics one coming up on Jamaica Independence on the 6th of August uh in London so that's quite nice um so yeah no that's an Avenue that we have for people trying to think what else do we do um we also have a social media page we try to be as responsive as possible I hope you feel that we've been responsive yeah yeah definitely um and answer people's questions we get questions in all the time you know can beginners take part how fast you need to swim I would love to learn to swim can we learn with you all those sorts of questions um and and I think people underestimate how important social media is in this day and age and that's one of the main tools that we use we've also got a bud in WhatsApp group um we've got over 300 people in our WhatsApp Channel um and that is all about getting people answering questions sometimes I upload videos into our WhatsApp group and sort of give people that additional information we share videos another thing that people do is ask questions so today um people were deciding whether they're going for the London serpent time or there's a bright and swim on the 7th of July which I'll be doing but like what Tri suit do you wear I mean what do you do what wet suit do you buy do you just buy one from Sports Direct and is that good enough um and those sorts and understanding that there's yes everyone all of them are wet suits but is it a two M wet suit is it a f mil wet suit and actually what's the difference um and is it compatible for swimming will it restrict your movement um the first Tri the first truit I bought was a swimrun 2 m um um two mil wet suit and I just thought that would be a wet suit that would be a tri suit that would be everything I need that's it and it's great but now I find it way too hot so right um having those sorts of conversations so yeah there's there's quite a few forums that we use um for opening up conversation keeping things um keeping things going so what with the hats what do you do then with do you so we've partnered with a company called Jo yeah Jo swimming cap again another piece of research we did back in 2022 and this actually went viral so it was quite good um of what different swimming caps look like underwater so there was like a viral image and they had like purple red blue white black and then they put it one meter under I think it was just under the surface then one meter under 2 3 4 and I think it went down all the way to 10 m under the water and what we found was that red and black were the most distinct um purple blue indigo all of those sorts of colors anything under just just under the service really were completely like unnoticeable um so for us it was super important um to increase number one visibility and size so at our most recent event and I'll send some pictures over after um we had everybody in a r red swimming cap that was given out as a part of their goodie bag M and that fit afro hair um the other thing that we did is we allowed women that wanted to swim with their hijab to do so okay and then they could put the swimming cap on top of their hijab if they wished or or not the only thing that we ask is that they had sealed hijabs so um some hijabs are like scarves okay or some are sealed so Nike do one there are so many brands that do them nowadays um Tre mates do one there there's quite a few but the idea is that they're quite loose in terms of modesty but well fitted in terms of they don't move so they're not a choking hazard so that was our only requirement and that went really really well um because a lot of the women didn't even know that was an option so they were like oh that's nice um so it was something nice to have um I'm trying to think yeah what happens a normal Tri Tri on with swimming hats and how's that you know is that a problem yeah so normally in my bag I always bring a few colors okay just I don't have that problem anymore because my hair's a lot shorter um but yeah I'd always bring a few colors just in case so that I could fit the wave it might not be The Branding of that event but the color is generic um I'm just speaking from my own personal experience sometimes you just go without yeah um um or a lot of the time I'll put my wet cap over the top of my own swimming cap so it wouldn't make a difference so it wouldn't make a difference anyway yeah I was going to say like I used to sometimes wear um two hats anyway just because it was more secure and stuff but then I don't know whether they' fit properly and things and no and they don't um so that's why we partnered with and job and they specialize in um swimming caps for afro big hair awesome or even one of the ladies at ceing she was like oh yeah I buy them because she was like I just have a big head so yeah no again inclusivity works for everybody yeah yeah cool okay um so yeah we talked a little bit about this is sort of touched on it a little bit earlier but what role do you think representation makes plays in Aon and how does seeing more athletes of color and particularly women because I'm I'm got my podcast is for women and that's who I coach is just women um how does that impact newcomers and the broader community and you've kind of talked a little bit it sort of benefits other people but if there's anything else you can you want to add to that about how you know seeing people represented actually helps and whether you've got a personal experience of kind of seeing someone that influenced you definitely um I've got a few okay so um Joanna Morgan okay um Donna McConnell and KLA kiori all black women okay um that have been doing actually Carla just finished I am man Austria yesterday nice um so all of those women are absolute Inspirations to me I did my first ever triff on with JoJo um JoJo Morgan um Donna McConnell she is who introduced me to try she was like well you swiming you cycle you could figure out how to run um that was back in 2020 2019 I didn't do my first try until 2020 I think okay maybe 21 um so yeah no all all of those but for me as I said earlier there's two types of black people it didn't matter that I wouldn't have that many people that look like me it didn't matter that I might have been the only one there to me what was most important was that I wanted to do said thing I'm now accepting that I am the minority of people majority of people need to see someone that looks like them they need to be in environments that are cultivating and nourishing them to grow around people that understand their nuanced lived experience um people often feel isolated and not able to understand the cultural nuances in Social spaces um I've had these conversations prior to and people were like oh well the people you're talking that they have jobs they they you know exist in a in a white majority 98% world so what what is what's the issue and I said well actually for a lot of people in their social time they want to be around people that are similar to them um in the same way that you would go to a tri Club because you're you want to be interested you want to be around people that are interested in try they want to be around people that are not only interested in swimming cycling or running but also look like them and that is an important Nuance um for a lot of people so yeah representation for the majority is very important um and even just watching I think in myself um I'm plus-sized watching someone that looks like you the way it fits my body will be different to the way it fits your body the way I sit on my cycle seat will be different to the way a six foot five guy sits on his cycle seat the way that I don't know even just setting up my indoor trainer the way that I set up my indoor trainer it's not going to be compartible to the way you do it because you need more space or I might need more space in different areas so it's all of those different understandings um that cultivate a cultured experience and that's different for every group does that mean that black people only need to join black only groups no I know what comment sections get like um so I want to dispell that myth right away it just means that there will be a large percentage of people that will see a larger group of people of color and resonate with that a little bit more closely and that for them is important um moving on I also think that seeing people in numbers is quite important um a lot of people that have come to my event both this year and last year were just like wow I knew you were doing this thing but I didn't expect it to be so big I thought you know it'd be like 10 20 people in a corner doing this small little thing and when they come and the music is a little bit more cultured and and and the food is a little bit more cultured last year we gave out patties um um this year we had a bit of a catering issue so we couldn't do that um but the food and and all of that sort of stuff then it allows people to feel okay this is a good feeling like I feel a part of something I feel seen I feel represented um I also wanted to show our logo so um our medal so give me te things yeah yeah cuz that was something that people also[Music] um really resonated with so anyone that did oh are you gonna come back on yes yeah yeah anyone that did swimming or cycling with us this year swimming or the triath on with us this year got one of two medals so this is our medal um and to see a medal that looks like that for a lot of people it's really important um um and then for swimming those that got a medal got the exact same medal but you SW you completed swimming with the black Tri tribe this year oh nice oh you want to describe it because if people are listening they're not gonna yes so um we've got a medal which is 3D texturized um with black red and green and it's of someone on a tri bike someone running and then someone swimming um just in the freestyle arm over position with the water running behind them um it's also got our loo our name on it and it's got 2024 so just for context so people can sort of understand having a black medal was also really important um and and and and the caricatures are black anyone watch so yeah no that that was that was super important it sounds really exciting and like I I can imagine like how nice that would be to have that atmosphere and that Vibe and just be like yeah this is where I'm supposed to be and you know to make it accessible that small you know that entry level as well for people so that they don't feel so intimidated by the whole you know it's just a really great way of getting people into the sport and and getting for it even do you know what even just down to the basic things um when people came up to us and said they've never seen a black or brown medal before ever no and you just think well actually then then what does that tell us that having a medal whether it's a caricature or not of of someone that doesn't look like you is the standard and what does that tell us in our brains um so there's a lot of there there were a lot of really positive feedback that we got this year um from just having basic representation yeah that's amazing okay so yeah you've you've done a lot to a lot to to implement you know inclusivity and it sounds like you're doing amazing jobs I just wanted to ask if you've got any stories um of club members who have had like significant challenges or obstacles that they've had to overcome anyone that's particularly stands out that doesn't wouldn't mind you kind of mention you don't have to name names or anything I will name he's going want to watch this okay so um Sue um I I'll talk about Sue Sue is a single mom who moved from North London to East Sussex and I don't mean Brighton I mean rural East Sussex um she moved to a small village in East Sussex and um it was very very different culturally demographically um and she moved with her three children um her son is I would say about 20 but her daughter's quite young her daughter's only in secondary school I think year seven and she went into year seven in East Sussex right and the thing about Sue is from the time Sue moved down here she said I'm looking for Community I'm just I'm I'm oozing she was like when I lived in North London I didn't I didn't look for other people that looked like me cuz there were just so many I didn't I didn't worry about having clubs or representation it wasn't even something that came to my mind and now Sue has become one of my biggest Champions um she couldn't swim before she joined BTT so she joined our swimming sessions back in November of 2023 she then um got a bike out that she hadn't ridden I think she said in 23 years cuz she was telling me she got it before her little boy and she had well her little boy is not so little and um so she got that out dusted it off got that out the shed and she said you know I'd never run done any sort of never done park run anything like that she said okay but I'm going to sign up for your try and she did she was one of the first people to sign up for the Trion back in September so she signed up as she signed up for the swimming session she said I'm going to commit I'm going to do it and this is what I'm going to do um her neighbors came her family came they held up superu bannner um and she was amazing she was absolutely brilliant and um she did a fantastic job and why is Sue one of the people that I talk about so much because she is the in my opinion the Every Woman She's a mom she works and she tried to take up a hobby later in life people often think if you haven't done something by 30 life is over um and Sue and I think there I think the Paris Olympics this year is going to be great did you see um the US Open butterfly she won um today um and she's 46 I believe 36 or 46 just reimagining life after 30 showing women that life is possible after children you know off that emptiness once they grow up and leave or grow up and no longer attached to you so so much that things things can be possible you can have hobbies and friends and she's made so many friends I think also is another thing that's really important friendship for women and Community for women and camaraderie and all of that Sue has gained through joining the black Tri tribe and she tells everybody about it I feel like Sue is my biggest cheer literally she's just my walking promotion board um and so many people this have said oh I've seen what Sue has done and I want to do it too and so many other women have come forward and said a similar thing so sue would be my absolute goto for that really entry level beginner type um every woman I would call Su she is the Every Woman um and then I've got the complete opposite end okay which is Karen uh Karine only has one one little boy um he's 20 I would say 25 okay um and he has obviously got a girlfriend and they go on holiday and they do all the things and Karine is a budding cyclist I mean she does 60 miles on a Saturday morning for fun um she's she's that type of cyclist yeah yeah and she and she runs and she does Pilates twice a week and she just couldn't swim and I think Karen is a really good example of the everyday Fitness black woman because she's in the gym she's um doing the cycling she's doing the running she just didn't have that swim element and for a lot of black people that is the most difficult part so Karine was uh what I would consider to be acrophobic okay um didn't even want to let go of the rail number one she didn't want to get in the pool she didn't want to enter the Leisure Center then she didn't want to get in the pool right then she wouldn't let go so just getting her off the wall was key yeah um and this year Karine completed completed a triathlon amazing and that just showed me and not only did she complete it but she made her mom do it too so what was her mom like with the swimming oh her mom's brilliant her mom's water so her her mom was fantastic but it was just um it was just Karine who who really inspired me and then again I think I posted her mom yesterday on Tik Tok just you know she said I'm a 60 plus she didn't give the rest away she's a 60 plus year old woman with a 40 plus year old daughter and a 20 plus year old grandson and she said I did it so yeah Karine and her mom are like absolute highlights for BTT because um it they had the fitness it wasn't that they didn't have the ability it was just the aquatics was what was holding them back um and I'm going to make another little segue for two seconds that's all right um when I black Tri tribe is about entry level participation for black people and the reason why it's so specific is because without that aquatic ability we cannot get people into multidisciplinary Sport and whether it's paddle boarding surfing kayaking whatever I don't know synchronized swimming if we don't get that basic aquatic ability down pack we're never going to get people in through the door so for me to continue to have that regular training session we have well just as we finished so we closed for the summer um but just before we finished we had seven venues across two cities running that's six in London and one in susex um we're moving to 10 venues in September and it's important that people understand why the focus is on Aquatics and cycling um we've only got one we only do run in um once a week in each city um but why is it so important and that is why is because you can join a million running clubs you can join a million cycling clubs but that entry level Aquatics specific L geared towards Tri is is key there's not much because the tri club's just kind of like it's like baptism by going and it's like whoa everyone's really fast and so onek at least probably per session you know it's it's yeah um I I would also say like some of the I I promised to tell a little aquatic story earlier okay um one of the venues that we actually lost our contract for didn't fully understand the concept of what we're trying to achieve and they said um so basically you're just a swim score and I said no so we've got people that are already triffle like we've got that entry level and they said well we've got two other Tri clubs here and you know I know who their Tri clubs are right they've got Channel level swimmers yeah the channel yeah who does that um well clearly they do and I said well um what our group are never going to we're never going to be that ever and even if we have individuals in our group that are doing that that will not be the core of our group our group is a tri Club but we're an entry-level Tri Club um and because of conflicts of interest we lost our contract and I think it's really I I really want to talk on this a bit more and be vocal is because I really need people to understand and we can't get people in try it if we don't start from that basic level and it doesn't mean that some people like Karine couldn't swim at all whereas some people like Sue swam like this yeah yeah and then took a stop and then like have a break yeah yeah yeah so so so to you that might be non-swimmer but to others that might be on yeah definitely it's a swimmer but it's like yeah just how confident you are and what support you need and what kind of environment you need to be able to go in and do that because it's not in a tri standard kind of Tri Club situation if you're at that level you need something more to bridge that Gap a little bit so yeah yeah so yeah um I just thought I should give that no no yeah that's fine yeah it's interesting I think that's like the like you said the 100 meters is kind of like what that's quite a shock isn't it 100 meters being a challenge kind of and I suppose it you know it is it's like but a swimmer length and then a lot of people sort of swimmer length and then they stop you know I see people in in the pool in just the day quite often that do that they'll swim a length and stop for ages and then they'll swim a length and stop so it would be a challenge to swim that and especially if you've never done much swimming before it's going to feel like a huge thing so yeah that's that's really good um so do you think that participating in triathlons has impacted the the people your members lives beyond the sport of triathlon I mean is that kind of like have you seen that have you seen people Dev so um we do a lot of community outreach um and one of the biggest community collaborations I'm quite proud well there's a few um first one with Brighton and ho um city council looked after the children Department okay um which might previously be known as like care levers okay um so looked after children in my city is anyone that is basically not with their parents so you could be under kinship care you could be and and I think there's a such a lack of information around fostering and adop you could be adopted you could be on rest bite care you could be on any sort of informal or formal Arrangement that might not look like the standard parental home okay and what we did is we said anyone um under the looked after children Department that also includes refugees by the way that also includes anyone under Asylum Seeker um not only can they take not only can those children and young people take part in our swimming sessions over the summer but they can also take part in our event and um a few families use that as rest bite on the day okay and I just thought what a wonderful rest bite activity um you know a trifle on just abstract just fun just no one knows that you're a care lever I didn't know who those families were they just rocked up on the day like everybody else um and and they took part and I got that feedback back from the department and they said that they had a really good time so um that's that's one um outside relationship that I don't know how long that will live in those children's heads for um the other relationship that I'm really proud of is we partnered with another community group called Art against knives okay and they are a London charity that just do just that encourage young people at risk of county lines knife crime gun crime to um partake in art so whether that's theater drama Creative Media music the list goes on anything in that art realm they encourage as an alternative to knife crime and that sort of activity and they bought their young people with them they paid for their young people to come down to Brighton and enjoy the day now two of those young people then turned around to me and said they've never left their area W so I don't mean go from Brighton to Crawley I mean they've never left I live in cemp town they've never left Kemp Town they've never left their Ward that is as far their postcode is as far as they've ever been yeah yeah um and and he was just he he tagged us on social media and he said yo I've never left London I've never left my B before everybody I've ever known has lived where I've ever Liv um so so that the the whole day the whole experience will completely live on in his it's like expanded completely expanded his thoughts both of them their thoughts of I mean they're the only two young people out of the group I had a chance to converse with but imagine your your your whole world has just opened up because you found this miraculous thing um and these people got you swimming and and all sorts so yeah that that that is another we've got a few more collaborations with Community groups but those two are two that I'm particularly and they extend beyond Trion um but they they stand out they stand out for yeah so you know it's like things like that you just don't know there's there's things that I can remember that I did when I was younger and you have these points in your life where it's like I remember that and it it just plants a little seed of something which then can develop later on you know you might have forgotten about it for years and then you're like oh I in a minute I can remember that I did this and this is why I'm maybe doing that you don't always link it at the time so it's I find that amazing that you know you can have those experiences and then doesn't necessarily have like a huge impact at that moment later it's going to be you know and and you're showing people that they can do those things and and planting those seeds for discovery later and and how lifechanging is that just to think a try has opened up your geographical senses your abilities Aquatics is a life skill so they've now learned a life skill they've readdressed their traumas they've traveled they all of these things they become fitter healthier you know it's just just the the the P on of positive consequences um for putting on a try um yeah span far beyond the sport yeah and also you know you can get so much from the whole thing you know you you start I I found anyway for through working and doing different triathlons was it started off with like like Fitness I improved my confidence um I like started to manage my fear better and then then I started working through like trauma like childhood drama and parent you know sort of like why am I doing this like what am I trying to get from it what am I looking for approval you know all these question you can like the the amount that you can grow through the sport and any sport but you know Triathlon is what we do you just it's it's a massive it's infinite really what you can do work and I think the thing about Triathlon that is different to any of the individual disciplines also different to any other sport is how solo it is so you get a lot of thinking time yeah yeah if you're on the bike for six we were talking about this before we started recording if you're on the bike for six hours you're gonna deal with some and when you're halfway up a hill and you're thinking why I'm but screen send me out here today or if you get caught out in the rain or I remember the last bik crowd I went on it was awful I got caught in a headwind plus a little bit of rain plus one of my cleats unclipped so I couldn't quite get in it was just and you just start to think what do I even like a bik do I even enjoy stop in life don't even don't even like the outdoors you just ask random questions so yeah and all those and once you start to enjoy it all those questions you know thinking about how I'm going to plan my life what am I going to do differently and and I know for those young people from art against knives they definitely thought about there's a different way to live life um and that there's so many but yeah yeah no no no it's good it's I just it's it's what I'm kind of passionate about is that kind of like the growth of of you as a person going through the sport and it's just it's amazing and you know you're providing such a great space for people to just take that little first step to yes of like expand their worlds and that's that's that you're kind of doing that and then they can run with it they can you know do whatever it can impact in so many areas so it's great um so yeah just we it's' been talking for quite a while oh have we sorry I can talk no I want to let you let you go and do your run so um I'm just gonna ask you a final question so looking the future what are your club's goals and aspirations for the next few years how are you planning to continue to to keep that positive impact going and impact as many people's lives as you can yeah so we want to start doing um international events right um we want to do a camp an international Camp which finishes with an international event we would like to um expand across different cities so at the moment we're in London Birmingham and Sussex or London Birmingham and Brighton and we're looking to expand a bit further out looking at um Birmingham well beyond Birmingham now we're are now in Birmingham and looking at Manchester um Liverpool Sheffield um maybe even Swansea Glasgow um that that is on that is on our agenda okay um yeah and and making it about swim bite run swim bite walk yeah so and that's just going to be you or you going to get some help yeah um I would like to get so so I'm completely unfunded we don't have we haven't received not a single penny in 2024 um so what people don't understand is that my job pays for black Tri tribe um and then last year I had to take a salary cut just because black Tri tribe got too big right so last year we did get a little bit of funding um and I mean under 10 grand um so we got a little bit of funding um and I and I just capacity wise I couldn't deal I was at middle management before and I couldn't handle being at middle level management and running a whole club right so I've now got an entry level job and I love it but that's taken a significant cut in my salary I've also almost halfed what I used to which has meant that we've had to withdraw how much we're now able to do so last year as I mentioned we had a quite a few events we had one in one try in London one try in Sussex whereas this year we've only had the Brighton Tri that's what we're doing we had a small duflon in London and but when I say small it was really small um and yeah I I next year I would love to have a triffon in London again if someone can fund me some funding yeah kind of like you're it sounds like you're kind of stepping into a role of wanting to go into more kind of expanding triath one to me if you could like make your job that that would be like amazing wouldn't it I knew this question was coming I often get this question um so if I was to get 100,000 tomorrow would I quit my job no really no I wouldn't uh I like my job right um I enjoy what I do in fact my line manager often watches the things that I do okay um and he cheers me on and he encourages me and he gives me time off right um and he's he's he's one of my that big I'm I'm super grateful for for my job um and for the team that I have and I wouldn't have it any other way right I also know I'm not the best person to run a tri Club um I think I'm the most passionate because it's my passion project yeah but I also acknowledge that not everything has to be you and I know that there are people that specialized my my job I think we spoke about what I do separately I do nothing to do with sport nothing to do with sport nothing to do with Community nothing to do with social engagement you were management before though yeah but so you could manage it maybe I I can I but it's not my sphere I okay I believe in letting experts do their job and I'm not an expert in this field okay um I'm a project manager just not in this domain so um yeah no just just so you're looking to get more funding to keep the events going and increase the number of events or even get quality coaches like I would love to be able to similar to yourself I would love to be able to pay some good coaches so like one of the things that the members were crying out for now they're at that sort of better level and they are aquatic and they are safe they were like okay so when are we going to do some Open Water swimming right and I was like I'm not I'm not qualified yeah so it's almost the club is now being hindered by my own ability and what I can cover and I think that's a massive shame massive shame so yeah if I had funding to pay people I would love to have some coaches in yeah okay well if there's anyone out there listening donate or or help funds then then they can get in touch with you but if people want to find out more about you then where can they find you and and how can they Instagram Tik Tok Facebook um Instagram Facebook Tik Tok X whatever they're calling it um Freds we're on all of the social medias and you're doing all that yourself all the social media as well yeah okay yeah as you've experienced yes um yeah no so from time to time um will'll get like ad hoc helping but as as as everybody knows in the world of sport volunteers come and volunteers go it's not and and people's lives change so that's not a bad thing it's just reflective of people's abilities and commitments so um I've had help intermittently but for the most part whenever people message or email they're talking to me okay and it's the black Tri tribe they can for and they'll find you on Instagram and Instagram black Tri tribe Tik Tok black Tri tribe everywhere is black Tri tribe anyway so I'll put email black Tri tribe gmail.com okay awesome oh brilliant is there anything else that you want to add to the seventh yeah the 7th of June 2025 is our next event um we've got the BT special which we spoke about we've got a Sprint standard Sprint 450 4 400 swim 20K bike 5K run and then we've got an Olympic um standard distance 1.5k swim 40K bike and a 10k run nice that would be cool and we've got new more feminine medals for next year so that was another piece of feedback the medals were too masculine women um so yes the medals are more feminine next year yeah you can alternate maybe or have like a mix yeah yeah yeah working on having a mixed one so yeah next year's are a feminine one oh lovely that's brilliant well it's been amazing talking to you and I can see your passion for everything just shines through and you've got loads of energy to to input into the into the club so I can see you know the impact that you're making is going to be massive and I hope that you can get funding to to keep it going and to add more and you know expand it all because it's just great really positive I love it thank you so much um well you've got my bike in the background so you definitely know I do try yeah um so yeah thank you so much thank you no problem thanks for listening today have a great day take care bye for now[Music]