Empowering Women Through Triathlon: A Conversation with Mel Berry

In this episode, Celia talks with triathlete, Mel Berry about her journey from her first triathlon in 1996 to founding MelBerry Coaching, Her Spirit, and most recently The Women's Sports Store. 

They explore how to make triathlon more accessible for women, the importance of confidence and community, and why strength training is essential for long-term health. 

Mel shares insights from her own racing and recovery, the emotional side of coaching, and the need for better funding and support for women in sport. Together, they highlight the power of collaboration and the impact of helping women believe in what’s possible.

Mel Berry Coaching https://www.melberrycoaching.com/

Mel Berry On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/melberrycoaching/

The Women's Sports Store https://womenssportsstore.com/

The Women's Sports Store on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/womenssportsstore_com/

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Website: https://ltrcoaching.co.uk/
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Transcript

Hi, I'm Celia Booman, founder of LTR Coaching, and I'd like to welcome you to the Inspired Triathletes podcast, where I'll be bringing you stories from female triathletes and taking on topics that are important to women in the sport.

Hello and welcome to today's episode. Today I'm here with Mel Berry. Welcome to you. And Mel in 2018 co-funded her spirit um with Holly Woodford which was to make health and fitness and good nutrition accessible to all women. Um and you I followed your journey with her spirit and I really liked what you were doing, you know, in encouraging all women to just be active and embrace movement in whatever way they could really. And then this year in 2025, you've launched the women's sports store, which I'm going to read out what you've written here. Um, the antidote to all the inaccessible and unreliable experiences women face when shopping for sports gear. From kit design to fit real women to nutrition that truly nourishes, the platform connects consumers with brands that understand how women want to feel when they run, swim, cycle, hike, and play. So that's great. You've branched off into something different and uh how's it going so far? Yeah. Um thank you for having me. It's lovely to have a conversation um with a fellow female coach and obviously kind of passionate about the the triathlon world and um how's it going? Women's sports story is very much in its early days. Um what we found out in the the survey that we did about 4 months ago when we asked women what stops them from being active and guess what product comes up I don't know where to get it I don't know who to trust I can't afford it and so for us that survey of over a thousand women meant that we had clarity to understand that if you created a website a platform which obviously womenportstore.com is that a woman can go and look at a review that is reviewed by someone like us, somebody that day in day out obviously does what they love and shows you what to do, how to do it. And um we are all price sensitive in the world that we live in. So a vast percentage of those products have a great offer on. So, if you're you're looking to be able to get something that that might be a few pounds kind of cheaper, that's a really important thing to be able to do. But what we want to do is enable women to not have to be debilitated by one person says this and one person says that. they can just get straight to the product and um you know they can thrive because they've got something that makes them feel invincible rather than you know doesn't make them feel as if it's something that works for them. So yeah, it's it's definitely been a good journey over the last month. Yeah, that's really interesting because it's I think with women's clothing and sports and anything like that, there's this kind of like underground kind of you you find out from this person and on this website and it's it's not always that easy to find that information. So that's great. You've got it all collected in one place and and it's reliable like that. And as you said, you come from a triathlon background. So, what was it that originally sparked your passion for triathlon? Yeah, and I love this question. It definitely made me go back into my memory banks and it made me smile. So, in the mid '9s, so 19 I think 1996. So, I'm sure there are people listening to this that weren't even born um during that time. So, you know, a wise woman of the triathlon world. Um I lived in Dubai and Dubai was a very very different world to the world that it is now. You know many people will see it through the T100 lens. It definitely wasn't like that during kind of my time and had a wonderful friend that I got to know a guy called Bruce Smart and Bruce was definitely you know uh a evangelist when it comes to triathlon. He's like right going to bring triathlon to Dubai. So, um, him and a couple of other guys, uh, said, "Right, let's set up an event." I was a swimmer. I didn't really, you know, understand that much about triathlon. I definitely didn't run. You know, most swimmers don't like land. Uh, so migrating to land was, you know, was one of many kind of challenges. But I did my first triathlon. It was a sea swim. Uh, the waters of Dubai are beautiful and clean and and warm, which is really important um for me. And um yeah, I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed being able to take her the skill that I had from a swimming point of view and then be able to still be that person that could be at the front of the pack. That was always, you know, a great thing. But then looking at the obviously the two disciplines and I think my my early stage experience where all those uh runners ran past me and said keep going. um that has definitely you know kind of stayed with me um till that time but it takes a long time for them to catch me which but it was fun. I loved it. Really did. Yeah, that's amazing. That's So how old would you have been then if you don't mind me asking? Yeah. Gosh. So back in 1996 so I'm now 56. So 96, you know, I was in my mid20ies and you know, those were the days where um, you know, you look at some of the people that, you know, I guess it was the Spencer Spencer Smith, Simon Leing, Annie Emerson. It was that kind of, you know, heyday for those that that weren't and aren't aware. 2000 was the first Olympics to have um, triathlon. Um, and that was obviously a time that um, you know, I was working for Speedo International in kind of 2000. So it was a it was a great time to to then be kind of part of that. So yes, I'm only 21 really, but unfortunately 21 times two in a bit. Yeah. Yeah. And are you still racing now or I haven't done a triathlon for probably the last I think three four years. Um and the reason for that is I fell out of love of the sport a little bit. Um, the last one I did was Marrakesh Half Iron Man. And I did that with my wonderful partner in crime, Holly Woodford, and and loved it because you uh were in a very different world than you are in most European events. Your bike got piled on the back of some truck that you hoped would get to uh to, you know, to the start. Um, it was a, you know, end to end event. So, um, you know, you ended up in the middle of kind of Marrakesh where it was not a given that you would a have closed roads andor not have to then stop for the traffic lights when you were kind of running. But, you know, it was great. I'm a expat kid. I was born in India, lived in Malta and and lived in the Middle East. So, I love that that that frenzy that different parts of the world um have. Um and the reason for not carrying on um you know after that is I then started to have what I now know was the early stages of needing a hip replacement and it meant that I couldn't run. So I had a hip replacement two years ago. Uh and in the two years leading up to that it was it was a challenge to be able to to run. Um, and the thing that kept me doing multisport was a crazy challenge that myself and Holly did when we were raising money um at her spirit called Lakes to London. And Lakes to London in essence was a triathlon. So um you know I've added another year on to uh how long ago uh it was. But the concept was that three of us, including Sarah Williams, who still works um as a regional development manager at British Triathlon, we would swim 5 kilometers in Lake Windermir. Um and that was my happy place. It was great. And then we cycled from u Windmir. So we set off from Felford at the you know the south part of uh of Windermir and over two days we cycled to central London. And uh we you know had some other riders. Yeah, we had some other riders that that helped us um be in essence a bit of a pelaton which definitely helped. Um we got to um London I think it was about 12 or 1:00 in the morning which is always interesting when people are piling out of the pubs having had a few too many drinks um and you've been cycling for x amount of miles. Um and then it was capped off with running the the London Marathon. What we what we were trying to prove and show is um that you you know you can achieve anything that you want to. We're three ordinary um women. But look, multisport is still something and triathlon is still something very much um in my heart and soul. Like you, you know, I still coach um and I've just recently put a lot of the knowledge that I have together in Mailbury coaching. So again, how do you empower women to take on um events and challenges um that they never thought possible? And my body loves doing the three disciplines. I just don't stick it together doing many races anymore. Yeah, that's fair enough. I mean, I think there's a really high value in being adaptable and being able to say, "Actually, that's not working for me at the moment." You know, it's not to say it's never going to work for you again, but you know, you you make a different choice because some people can't let go of that and they do end up in a bit of a mess then just trying to keep doing it and their heart's not in it because they don't know anything different. So, it's really great to to adapt and I think it's a valuable skill for all of us to have, isn't it? Yeah. And I I think look, you know, I was um the chair at the triathlon industry association for four years and I think one of the things that that I've definitely seen and I would say it's not a positive about the sport is the cost because event entries have significantly um gone up and I know that event organizers have had to make that happen because again road closures cost a lot more money um and and a few other um things in there. Um, and you know, I think the conversations like this, well, how do we make sure that we can still make the sport accessible for all? And that was so much of what we, you know, we did at Her Spirit is how do you create opportunities? Well, an opportunity to take part in a triathlon or a swim, bike, run event doesn't have to necessarily be event. You know, we built digital challenges. So you could go and do your digital challenge for the week which is one day going for a swim, one day going for a run and you know following it up that kind of day. And I think the important thing for anybody listening here is let's innovate. How do we make the sport still accessible and accessibility is access to a venue, access to product? Uh and that goes back to everything that we're trying to do with um women's sports store because um you know it's a costly sport but it can be a very um easy sport to enter. So you know we don't need to have everything. Just as long as you've got something and that something is you you can go a long way with it. Yeah. And there's a lot of, you know, with races, there's varying costs depending on what race you enter. And there's a lot of local smaller races that that are a bit more cost effective than something like doing Iron Man for the I mean, that is a massive cost, isn't it? My husband did his first run last year and he was like, "Oh, I spent so much money on, you know, nutrition and everything. It's like a huge investment." But it's an amazing experience, but you know, you it would put a lot of people off. Um, so yeah, we need we need those smaller races and and different ways of challenging ourselves for sure. Yeah, you got quite creative with that, didn't you? I think in in her spirit, there was a lot of stuff going on. Yeah. And it's back to my point is, you know, you don't have to be that person that stands on a start line to be a triathlete. And I remember one of our wonderful community members and and friends, you know, Sally B. You know, Sally B was always worried about the cutoff. Sally Sally B was, you know, um worried about many things. And we have seen over those years that that has been a real challenge for women that worrying about such things as cut offs and toilets and you know period products and everything. Uh on that side and you know what Sally B did was great. She, you know, she made her own try. So, she went for a swim in Dorny. Uh, she had her bike, you know, waiting for her and she went and did some laps around Dorny Lake. Um, and then I think she might have cycled home and then from home she went and ran. And what that showed her was the distances of obviously an Olympic distance uh was something she could do. And that got her thinking, okay, so if I can do the distances, can I find an event that then means that they either don't have cut off times or they're cut off times that, you know, are very kind of achievable. And I think, you know, one of the criticisms I'll have for for triathlon is we become very focused on the front end, but we don't understand, you know, the mass participation side well enough. and people like Sally are competent enough and uh are great and very kind of athletic. So from a female point of view, you know, how do we make sure and and we in the past before have challenged event organizers to again make that more um accessible because I think many triathletes and many triathlon clubs don't really understand people that aren't within their kind of DNA. But if we are to grow the sport, we have to think differently and we have to look at different um opportunities um and that's the art of collaboration because you might be doing something different than you've done in the past before and that's okay because that's you know the essence of growth isn't it? Yeah definitely I think that's something that I learned when I was doing a lot of sport. I know possibly you you might be quite similar in this way that you come up through the sport and you're like confident because you've got a sporting background. So you don't necessarily see those challenges that other women might have because you don't realize what it's like to be like that until you put yourself in that person's shoes and think, "Hang on a minute. I feel fine doing this, so why shouldn't everybody?" And it's like, "Well, hang on a minute. you did you had a completely different you know attitude to sport growing up you know it was like it was kind of easy and I didn't feel like I was out of place in that space or anything like that it was I was very confident and I wanted to help other women to feel like that as well and understand why they didn't because you know you see how much you get from doing those events and how much your confidence increases and just, you know, life skills, amazing life skills that you can learn from from doing sport and everyone should have access to that really. There shouldn't be barriers in place for people to get involved in that. Yeah. And I think that life growth is a really important one to to talk about because you know I've seen whether or not it's through the years of her spirit or the coaching that I've done is it's about confidence because confidence is is about enabling you to unlock the door to possibilities. And when you then go and achieve things that you never thought possible, you go, "Oh, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. It wasn't as hard as I thought I was." and I didn't think I was going to achieve it. So, I'm now going to go and do this. And once you understand the art of possible is is so much greater than you ever um thought, you look at the way that you live. So, you think I'm not going to put up with what's happened to me from a work point of view and I am going to challenge that. And that elixir of life is confidence. And that confidence piece is so brilliant. And we've seen and you know we saw so many women at her spirit you know one then was a lawyer and she said I don't want to work in this industry so I'm going to go and be a freelance kind of lawyer and I want to then be able to you know not be confined by the world that we are and and I think you know it's about togetherness. How do we lift each other up? And I think that's why these conversations are so vitally uh important and don't just presume, you know, far too often we presume because we look through our own lens. Well, what about the lens of somebody who is less competent or less fortunate or less capable um we have a lot to pass on um to those people by just being kind. I think you know it's that and I always laugh in the kind of triathlon kind of world as a swimmer is again you become you know so many triathletes become so kind of fixated in in the way and back to that point that we had um earlier um and let's encourage and infuse more women to to do the event and and one of the you know the conversations that I'm really keen to have with you is coaching you know we've seen a decline in female coaches uh over the coming years. Why? Why? Why is that the case? You know, you and I are coaches in her own right. Um, and I don't know what you see as as a fellow female coach, why you don't see more female coaches in the sport of triathlon. I don't really know. I mean it's I had to look at my own stuff a little bit then like when I was cuz when I set up as a coach I was thinking well why don't people want they don't necessarily want a female coach like women don't always want a female coach and I did speak to someone and she said well I don't know if I'd trust you trust another woman because of and especi because we were kind of in the same area as well she thought there might be competition between us or something and it's like well I'm not like going to coach you badly because I don't want you to do well. Do you know what I mean? It's like that's that's not my job. That's I'm not like competitive like that. I sort of think that says more about her really than than me. But it's really interesting to sort of look at it and think why is it that you know women might trust a man or think that a man knows more than than a female coach. I mean I coach in a completely different way and it's my coaching has changed a lot over the years s and especially since just coaching women as well. You you just have a completely different perspective cuz I when I did coach men it was all about data and numbers and like which I like as well. I'm quite into that but you know it's just a different thing. How about you? How do you find Yeah, I mean I it's interesting over probably the last 10 years I found that I either get 20-year-old men um or predominantly women and I why is that? I think that ordinarily those 20year-old men were on their journey to do their first Iron Man or first half iron man and they probably were a little bit more emotionally um open and aware. So again, a woman um I think also that relationships are really, really, really important. I'm so passionate that I think in the embryionic stages of coaching, it's around that trust and that competency piece. Um yes, data has a very very very important role to play. Um, and we partner with Training Peaks and Training Peaks has got great obviously uh data in there to enable you to kind of look at your TSS scores and and everything uh on there, but it's about coaching the person in front of you and it's not about a a given formula. Um, and it's understanding flexibility, flexibility, vulnerability. Um, and for me, you know, my coaching philosophy is very much around that open and honest part because if you don't tell me how you feel or you don't tell me something, then it's very hard for for me to be able to do the job that that that I do. Um, and they are quite deep, those kind of relationships, aren't they? Because people then will tell you things that ordinarily they don't tell um many people. But for me, coaching is brilliant because it enables that person to succeed in a way that they didn't. And I'm sure like you, you feel as if you've had a, you know, a small role to play in that person's success. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And sometimes you don't see how much of an impact you might be having. Um, but then you think about it and you think, oh, hang on a minute. Yeah. did you know I am doing a good job here and and I am helping this person move through whatever they're moving through because a lot of the time as well I find people come to triathlon and they are going through things and they're using triathlon as a sort of vehicle to process or or go through some kind of life change or or bereiement or birth of a child anything you know it could be a whole spectrum of stuff that that people are dealing with. And it's I think it's quite a good sport for that because you although you it sort of stops you thinking about things a little bit because you got something to focus on but also gives you space to process stuff because you're out on those long rides and runs and you're thinking and you're also dealing with failure comparing yourself to other people try you know like for me it was trying to do as well as I could and still not getting any attention from my that you know it's like those kind of things they come up and you're like oh my god I'm still thinking that and so you deal with such a lot of emotional stuff I think going well you can do that that's my experience yeah and the point that you say about comparison we always talk about comparison as the thief of joy so why compare yourself to somebody else and why compare yourself to your former self and I've definitely done that you know over the decades and As I you know mentioned I'm a woman in my 50s now and if I look back and I guess for context and this is about me this is only about my you know uh is when I was swimming I was a 400 meter you know freestyle swimmer so I was a endurance essence um swimmer you know and I could swim a you know a 415 420 400 m now I can't get anywhere near there you know if I swim a 5 and a half to six minute 400. You know, I'm over the moon and and pretty ecstatic. So, if I compare myself to my past self, I will be downtrodden and going, I can't believe, you know, I'm over a minute slower than than I was, you know, sometimes two minutes slower for for whatever reason. Um, but I'm still able to do, you know, what I'm able to be able to do. And, uh, two years ago swam the length of Windermir and and loved it. you know, it was about being able to do something that, you know, 11 and a half miles was the longest swim that, you know, I'd ever done. You know, I was looking at and how I trained um differently. I'm like you very fortunate that I've got a lot of, you know, very knowledgeable people in in my life and, you know, helping with the support of Paul Newsome. So from um swim smooth again getting to kind of understand that endurance uh swimming um and this year you know I went and um swam uh Lake Conniston and Ols water as part of the chill swim series. I hadn't done enough training um because I was coaching and I was trying to train for a 50k ultra you know two well a year and a half post hip replacement to show women that you can you can go back to doing that kind of activity. Um, I did Connor and um, I was nowhere near as fast as I was, you know, when I was training for Windermir and I was just like, I can't believe it was that slow, but I had to then be able to frame it. And it did take me kind of a bit of time to kind of frame that kind of piece to say, okay, when I was swimming uh, for Windermir, I was swimming three or four times a week. It was a very singular focus event. I did this and you know I was probably doing three hours of swimming if I was lucky um and then through general um FOMO um and predominantly through the swimmers that I was coaching I ended up and doing water and I thought wow you know it's it's only two and a half miles kind of longer and anybody that's done any longer swimming event you know 2 and a half miles is not a short kind of distance. Um, so when I got to mile five and my rotator cuff was kind of burning and I was just thinking, "Oh my god, where's the end?" I just had to stop and think about being present and being present and stopping and going, "Do you know what? I'm not going to do it in the time that I thought I was a because I haven't fundamentally done the training. Um, and that's okay. So stop every mile and look at, you know, the the amazing landscape of um, you know, ins, have a conversation with the kayaker, have a conversation, you know, with the people that are on the kind of the feed boats and get to the end. And I think you know the piece and you obviously talks about how trifleon can be used for escapism and there is so many different kind of ways of escapism and I think that for me going back to you know good old comparison is the thief of joy. I did it. I loved it. Was I as fast as I wanted to be? No. But that's okay you know because I you know I got to do something that was beautiful. I don't know where where's the lake. I know that's definitely isn't that's North Wales. Yeah that's North Wales. Yeah. Um I've forgotten the name of it. It's near Pla Brennan. Okay. Yep. It's not very big compared to Wind, but it's still a beautiful kind of place. Yeah. Like looking around. Yeah. I think you know and that's something that you can bring in is the love of I think you know as we get older it is it does get difficult because you're like oh I'm not going to be as fast or I mean you can still improve quite a lot but it just depends how where you've been and you know if you started from nothing and you start training later then you're going to improve but if you've been at a high standard earlier then you're not necessarily going to get back to that and as You say it doesn't matter and probably like your uh 20 yearear-old self wouldn't have been able to do that massive long swim. I don't know. Yeah, I think I would have kicked and screamed my way through. But you know my open water swimming journey was one that you know started probably about six seven about about 10 years ago and through the group that I had which were friends at you know the triathlon club um we decided to do uh chill swim conniston and I hadn't really uh done that much kind of open water swimming. I was definitely a warmer weather open water swim I think most triathletes are. I always kind of laugh now where you kind of look back at where you used to be that when it comes to September um and it's below 20 degrees the triathletes are I'm not getting in there it's far too cold um and you know we went on a journey I think there was five of us to then be able to try and swim um you know the chill swim conniston swim and I think I got to about three miles maybe four miles and I had hypothermia and I just really you know my body started to shut down got chucked in the back of St. John's ambulance. Um, and I didn't understand what my body needed to to do to then be able to kind of be um in that environment, you know, take that, I think, four or five years kind of forward. And again, I'd had a lot more kind of exposure to open water swimming. I'd swam in a lot more kind of colder um kind of lakes um over a prolonged period of time. Um and you know I did and you know for me I think the importance that you know again one of the key points I want to get across is understanding your why. You know my why when I went back to Conniston was of course to succeed because you know I'm a I'm an A type person. I want to always want to succeed or what we do but my why was very different. Um the one of the women that I swam with in that first year woman called Holly Mitchell. unfortunately uh lost her life to alcoholism in her early 30s and I wanted to do that swim to remember Holly and I was very fortunate that I was able to get her sister to swim in her place because it was an event that she should have been doing. So, uh when I did that swim, you know, Holly was very much in my heart and and my mind and you know, both myself and her sister Anna got to the end, but from that has become a really strong relationship with her mom. So, you know, a big, you know, big shout out to Sheila Mitchell. She's called Granny Sheila on Instagram. And she's going back to take on London Marathon um for the NPCC um this year. Um and I've said to her, "Right, Sheila, I will help you, but you don't need to run as much. You need to be doing strength training." And and you know, again, one of the points I want to, you know, get across in that is utter utter importance for women to strength train. It isn't a nice to have within your tri your training um cycle. It's not just a thing for winter. It is doing something 12 months a year because you know women in their 30s start to lose muscle mass. And as a woman in my 50s, you know, I'm losing between 5 to 8% of lean muscle mass every decade. So if I want to carry on doing the things that I do such as my 50k ultra that I did this year, my water and and everything, you know, having that strength training is so critical. And I think that the way that it's really important and I love your views on it is women aren't small men. So don't try and coach somebody in the same way. Women should be doing strength training. You should be lifting heavy. you should be taking on board you know significant amounts of you know um protein you should be looking at creatine you should be kind of looking um at collagen I don't know what are your views on strength training and strength training flu well yeah I do exactly the same well pretty much probably not exactly the same but similar yeah um I've just managed well my mom's been talking about going to the gym for quite a while and she's started coming with me now so she's 73 and she's oh brilliant just got back into it cuz She used to be like an instructor actually in the gym, you know, she so she knows what she's doing or she should do, but it's been a long time since she's been in there. Uh, and I've got her lifting weights a bit and things, but she's a little bit cautious. And I think quite often women are a bit cautious about lifting heavy or they're worried about, oh, I'm going to get, you know, she always says, I'm going to get really muscly and dorky and things. and she is kind of like she she has got that kind of build but it's like no you're not it's fine but she still believes that even now even though I've told her not. Um so yeah it's interesting that kind of those thoughts that I suppose women have about or perceptions about going to the gym. I mean how with her spirit I suspect you had a lot of people that were resistant to going to the gym. How did you Yeah, I mean it it's a big one. I kind of smiling inside all the points that you you made is you know women think they're suddenly going to become you know ane by lifting a 2 kilogram kind of dumbbell. Um so that is again a myth. You are not going to get bulky by doing um strength training. So that's a fact. you would have to be doing very specific things and eating, you know, probably a dozen eggs a day with a steak um and and everything kind of washed down to, you know, that. So, I guess there's that there's that perceived um point. Um many women don't like to go into the gym because they find it an intimidating environment. And as a swimmer, you know, strength training was always an integral part of what we did and what I've always continued to do. So I don't at all feel intimidated being in that gym, but a significant percentage of women do feel intimidated. So again, it's, you know, it's about saying if that's how you're feeling and that if you're listening to to this, you know, find somebody. There are many of uses in this world to be able to help. I hope that you will find a friendly kind of gym um I'm going to say gym teacher because the wonderful Sheila said that she went to her gym and she had a gym teacher in essence a personal trainer that can again help you with the kind of the basics and the basic kind of moves. Um and for us at her spirit it was kind of breaking it down. So we created a program called couch to kilos and couch to kilos was about use your body to start with because you can do a lot at home. You can do things like press ups and squats and jumps and we know the importance um of doing plyometric work as you know as we kind of get older and once you have that competence that you can go through a movement pattern and it doesn't uh hurt you can kind of get better. You can then um do what you do. Then what we were seeing is women go okay well I now want to go into the gym because I'm stronger than I thought I was. It wasn't as hard as I thought I was. Um, and I've learned the technique of the being able to do the, you know, some of the moves that, you know, we just, um, spoke about. And I think the constant thread of this conversation is again from a female point of view that competence piece and the importance of people like us is in this world that then, you know, say you can do it. You're far more than capable because when you're more confident, you become more competent. when you're more competent, you know, you want to change the way that you uh, you know, think, act, and and and are. So, yeah, look, it's it's still a problem. You know, so many people that will still say to me, "Oh, but I'm going to bulk up, aren't I?" And um and I went, "Uh, no, you're not. No, no." And that's why, you know, I'm passionate about saying those statistics. You know, women in their 50s, 5 to 8% of lean muscle mass you're losing in that decade. you've lost muscle mass in your 30s, you've lost muscle mass in your 40s. Um, and we worked with a wonderful um, gentleman guy called Professor Greg White and um, he obviously helped Sarah Cox being able to, you know, do her amazing challenge a couple of weeks ago. But the thing that again is important for strength is about strength for life. As we age and we start to look at a road of needing support at home, it's ordinarily because we can't get off the toilet seat and we can't get out of the bed or off the chair and you need obviously that help to then be able to do that. What's a squat? A squat is getting off the chair, right? It's getting off the toilet. And so if you do all those, just think that all the squats that you do are about, you know, um protecting yourself for kind of future and being able to, you know, to do those things. So you can still live at home and you can still be able to, you know, do the things that you they're used to. So yeah, every woman listening to this strength training in the gym. And I think it's that feeling like you belong in that PL. I think that's, you know, I have felt, you know, not confident in the gym at times, but then I've just given myself a talking to and gone, look, you you've got every right to be here just as much as all those uh they're usually young guys. I'm laughing because I wanted to say we were at um the climbing wall the other day. My son is like 16 year olds and boy. He's like in the corner with his top off like doing all this stuff. And I went over and I said, "Oh, look." And I looked around. I said, "It's testosterone corner." He's like gravitated there. But it's like you can, you know, I don't care. I'll go in there and kind of like get in amongst it because I I'm okay in that area. And and they don't care anyway. They don't know what they're doing half of them either. So, you know, if you feel like you don't know what you're doing, you probably know a bit more than a lot of people in the gym because I always used to think everyone else knew more than me. And you see some right sites of people doing exercises that are, you know, you think they might know what they're doing and they're not necessarily. So, it's okay to go in there and and just like you say, you're building up maybe building up some confidence at home doing the moves so that when you go in there, you're like, "Oh, yeah. I could do that. I can go over into that space. I I have got the ability and the right to be in that space. It's okay." Yeah. And it's about like micro habits, you know, because people say, you know, I don't have time. And I'm sure you hear that time and time again is, you know, we only have 24 hours and 7 days a week. It's how you choose to obviously use that time accordingly. And if you bring it back into that strength piece is if you were to add up the amount of time that you take boiling the kettle, preparing some food, or brushing your teeth, I'd probably reckon that in a day that will be between 15 and 20 minutes that it takes you to perform those tasks. And ordinarily, what are you doing? you're scrolling or you're kind of so why don't you you know if you if you're a woman and you're kind of starting and look you know it's about everybody just just because you've done your first Iron Man doesn't mean that you shouldn't do shrink training you should so it's a kettle boils and you need to let's say it takes five minutes to make your tea why don't you do five minutes of squats why don't you do a few things because if you then are doing 20 minutes of strength training every day you know you add that up times seven hey that's a you It's 140 minutes um worth of you know that's 2 hours of strength training a week without having to go to the gym or having to you know to pencil it um it into there and then when you realize that actually it was good and it was kind of easy to then be able to do you prioritize it so you then say I am going to do that and you know I'm a a firm believer again around strength training as a warm-up so as I've got back into running I'll probably do a a 20 minute strength session which will warm me up, which will get me mobilized, that will do everything, and then I'll go out and run. And people are like, well, isn't it the other way around? And it's like, no, because you're warmed up, you're mobilized, and you're not doing one rep maxes unless you have a very specific kind of reason and then I've done in an hour um what ordinarily, you know, I didn't, but yeah, it's uh yeah, it's helping to prep your body definitely, like get it warmed up properly. I mean, I see that a lot in um my husband and I climb a lot now and we go there and we do our warm up and everyone's like, "Oh, you do a really long warm up." And we're like, "Yeah, because otherwise we're going to injure ourselves and like um but yeah, a lot of people don't. They just go jump straight in and and don't prep themselves properly and they wonder why they get injured so quickly." Exactly. Yeah, I know. It is. it it is really important. So, I think I've sort of veered off I don't don't think I've asked you any of my questions, but I think we've covered a lot of stuff in here. Um, but I did want to ask you about if there was an example of when you saw someone kind of transform, not just in performance in their sport, but in their confidence or identity in in her spirit. was is there anyone that there's probably lots of examples, but is there any one in particular that stands out? Yeah, I mean there are lots um but I'm going to use an example of a wonderful woman. So the woman in question is called Rachel. Rachel Tanner and Rachel Tanner came to to her spirit. We got to know her through an early conversation um with the work that she did. So she is the director of adult social care at Bolton Council and you know she had historically played sport probably in her in her 20s um and enjoyed predominantly football and and loved it. Life had come along you know she'd had two kids you know a very uh stressful job had taken and she wasn't prioritizing herself and that started to change. So she then started to you know think oh actually you know I can do the things I think off the back of swimming Conniston she had then said right I'm going to go and swim um Lake Windermir and you know you're going from five and a bit miles to 11 so you're again you're kind of doubling it plus um but she was struggling and and she said you know I don't really kind of know what to do um and she reached out to me within her spirit and said look you will will you help me? And I said, "Yeah, 100%." You know, I'm happy to coach you. Um I'd obviously come off the back of all the learnings that I've had from um swimming kind of Lake Windermir. And she did it and she was very meticulous in the way that she trained. She, you know, the key thing was and the the big change is she prioritized herself. She put herself forward and hadn't put herself uh you know, front and center for probably 20 years. She then went and uh you know did and swam um Lake Windermir. She you know did the other one. She went from Amblesside down to kind of Feloot and if you ever spend any time down at Feloot there's a big wooden pontoon which you know you kind of smack on and that's where you kind of you got to the end and she's like oh wasn't as bad as I thought it was and it wasn't as hard as I thought it was. Um she then the following year went on to do Bolton 70.3 and again helped her through that kind of journey. uh she would be, you know, people would say to her, "My god, Rate, you look really different and you look, you know, vibrant, you know, the way that her, you know, she, you know, looked and she sounded um and again she continued to prioritize um herself and this year she went on to do the Outlaw and you know, she also ran the London Marathon and from a woman that probably three years ago was doing couch to 5K can now say I've achieved the length the Windmir. I've done a half and a full distance uh race and I know that she with a few others has signed up to do a great event called Chase the Sun um this year the South. So it's the aisle of Shepy over to the other side um of the country in an event that I've done in the past before. And yeah, look, Rachel is one of so many women through our her spirit journey that have gone on to achieve things that they never thought possible. And that's a wonderful thing to witness. Yeah, definitely. I think that's of that making time for yourself is key and can get really lost when you do have children. I mean, I started triathlon when I'd had just after I had children cuz I was like, I need my I need something and it was like to get me out of the, you know, because I could probably have quite easily not prioritized myself and I do I don't prioritize myself quite as much now as I did when I was training for the my big events. It's like, oh well, you know, they I'll do do them and I kind of let everybody else do their thing. Especially last year when my husband was doing Iron Man, so I was like, it doesn't really matter for me. I'll support everybody else. But it is important to have that support for you as well, you know, because it's it's really nice as well for the family, I think, for the people around you to be able to support you. You know, most people actually want to and it's a it's a good thing for them to to do and to to give like a gift for you as well. So, yeah. Yeah, definitely. And you know that gift of self is so so important and you know we we we've had a common thread through this conversation and I will always say that you are far more competent you know than capable than you think you are. Um and you know the framing of that is you know always say your mind is your biggest inhibitor or your biggest enabler. let it be the latter, not the first. And you find a way um and you break it down into bite-sized chunks. You know, I think if I look at my journey, so I'm a couple of days away from two years, you know, post a total hip replacement and for, you know, especially the the last year was in, you know, I suffered with chronic pain and and people that have had chronic pain will understand it's just constant, you know, there and um and then, you know, bring it kind of forward is that, you know, those first couple of months you're learning to walk again And because of the severity of the operation and this year I did a 50k cray ultra. I was walking and I was running it. I completely shredded my feet because I didn't do enough training and I was training more in the water than I was training in the land. So I only have myself to blame. Um but yeah, you know, it's yeah, it's again, you know, back to the things that we've just spoken about a lot is it's about, you know, I know this um you know, your body will give up before your, you know, your your mind um kind of does and um uh my finger wags to you to make sure that you prioritize yourself to continue to do the things that you do and and not let your husband take the limelight. Yeah. No, he he won't. I don't think so. He's not doing Iron Man this year. It was a oneoff. But yeah, it's like it's finding my own goals now. I need to sort of figure that out because I haven't really done it. And it's just difficult because I've changed sport as well. So cuz my son does the same sport. I'm like, "Oh, we'll we'll do what you you know, let's focus on your projects or whatever." And then it's not in the same place as where I want to do something. So difficult. We'll figure it out though. We will. And uh I'm still in, you know, it's nice actually cuz I got so much. I want to give back a bit as well because I did I can see that uh it was all about my training for quite a while. Yeah. And you can become very obsessed by that, can't you? Because you're obsessed that the training you need to do. You're obsessed that you don't want to get sick. You're obsessed that you don't want to. Um but I think it's really important that during that time of focus, you stay present, you stay connected, and you stay aware because uh if you have that level of self-awareness, you will be much better because, you know, you'll get more support or you'll get a better kind of understanding of kind of where you are. And yeah, look, we all do it. Um, and it's very easy for me to then be able to say, you know, I I know that I'm definitely, you know, get into kind of that place. But like both of us, we've been able to do things that not huge amounts of people have been able to do because you have that ability to focus and being selfish is okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's Yeah, it is. Yeah, definitely. Okay. I'm just going to ask you a couple more questions. So, uh, one of them is what's thing do you what one thing that you believe female communities need more of? We kind of talked quite a bit about this, but maybe like community because it's there aren't that many. There aren't enough. And um you know, as you know, um we had to close down her spirit um a couple of months ago because it wasn't getting the funding that it should have done. We know that it works. Um we know that we've seen huge amounts of success stories. Um but unless it's government funded and or funded by others, then you know, we weren't able to continue to do what we need to do. But um the essence of what we had is togetherness. So I think you know the the important thing is about responsibility. What I saw in her spirit and the times that I've coached in triathlon clubs is uh two or three people do too much and not enough people do enough. So again, it's that female community of then being supportive and being kind of helpful um and being, you know, proud and passionate of of what you do. So yeah, we need more female communities. You know, I would love to challenge British triathlon to have a female strategy. I categorically no, unless somebody tells me the other way that British triathlon do not have a female strategy, they should. No national governing body in this country, I think, has a female strategy. And it should and it should fund clubs and it should fund people like us because until we get 50% of funding, whether or not that's health all the way through to kind of elite sport, we won't as a agenda be able to achieve the things that we need to. So, you know, is a shout out to Ruth Daniels. Hey, what about giving 50% of funding to to women and supporting us along along that kind of journey? So yes, but you know women support women and that's our superpower at the same time. Yeah, definitely. I think I mean I'm involved with a comm 10 iron women community. Okay. And they sort of they've set up a group and it's just you know a group of friends that set it up. So it's all voluntary. They don't they don't get paid or anything for it. So they should Yeah, they should to get to involve you know they're involving other women in it. I write coaching plans and and go to their events sometimes at, you know, in Bristol. Um, but yeah, there's no they're not getting I don't think they're getting paid to do it. It's just something they were passionate about and started up and uh yeah, like you say, there should be some kind of funding to encourage that because we can see the benefits. You've shown the benefits. Yeah. And the small things, you know, people like you and I from a coaching point of view. Well, what about if you paid us to then be able to run a few sessions because, you know, I've seen, you know, some of the the times where triathlon clubs, you know, with all the best intention have gone and done open days and people just bob up and down and people run rounds, but you know, people want that support and help. So if every you know club you know could have or organization or community or group that again had a U of this world that you know look you know we we're not going to get rich quick are we on on coaching money but I think the amount of money that we invest in ourselves to to do those kind of coaching courses and do all the things then why wouldn't and shouldn't we be you know rewarded to be able to you know to do the job that we do. Yes, definitely. Yeah. Okay, that's good. Good way to sort of finish things up, but I'll just talk a little bit. I know we talked about your projects at the beginning, but how do you help to because we've not got long left. We'll just quickly wrap up. How do you hope to help women specifically with your new project with and how can people find out about it? Anything you want to add there? Yeah. No, thank you. And look, you know, women's sports store um is about um creating a platform that women can go across the verticals of swimming, cycling, running, and nutrition and strength training. You know, we've recently signed a partnership with Dr. Stacy Sims. So, if you want a little bit of education, then go and do a Stacy Sims micro kind of learning course. That's what they were set up for you and anybody that wants to know a little bit uh more about because the education piece is a really uh important one. What do we want to achieve? We want to achieve and we want to enable any woman and every woman to know that they're never going to be stopped doing the activity and sport that they love because they can't find the product. Um within the you know the site there's obviously a connection to a Strava group. So if you don't want to go to site just go and find us on Strava women's sports store. Um and you know we have a community kind of forum is look we need to collaborate and you know the points that I made when you know I talked about closing down her spirit was we don't collaborate we talk a good game around collaboration but we don't really collaborate um so look come and find us and we want to get to the point where women are buying from women so we're showcasing great female founders you know whether or not it's Lara the female founder and head chef at VelloForte. Go buy from VeForte because you know Lara's vision to make that kind of work. Um, and help us get to the point where we can drive enough commercial revenue to fund women so we can fund coaches and we can fund projects and we can, you know, we can give back um into there. So yeah, please go to women'sportstore.com.

lots of S's and then again put the links in as well. So yeah, and look, my passion hasn't changed in any way, shape or form. But the harsh reality is that we have to be more commercial going forward and we're not going to shy away from that commerciality. But we're going to give women what they want, what they need to continue to swim in that wonderful lake behind you, you know, in in kind of Wales or go and do their kind of their first Iron Man. And the one I guess strap line that we had from a her spirit that we definitely live life on a daily is together. We've got this because actually if we can do it together, then it makes it a lot more social and a lot lot more fun. Yeah. And it's Yeah. It's just a better way of doing things. You learn and grow a lot faster, don't you, when you've got other people around you that are supporting you. For sure. Oh, well, thank you so much, Mel. It's been really lovely to speak to you and uh you've given a lot of insights and a lot of motivation to many women. So, thank you for your time and uh I'll put all your links in the in the description and hopefully people can check you out at the new sports store. Brilliant. And thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for the offer. And thank you for reaching out to me at a time when you know it has been kind of hugely challenging. It's definitely been a time where we've seen who has stepped up to want to be able to kind of support. So a big thank you um Celia for reaching out and hopefully we can change the world together for women. Yay. I love that mission. That would be awesome. Oh, thank you Mel. Cheers. Thanks for listening today. Have a great day. Take care. Bye for now.