The Ordinary Doula Podcast

E105: Complete Childbirth Prep vs Scrolling with Andrea Lythgoe

• Angie Rosier • Episode 105

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The internet gives you a million opinions on birth; we give you a map. Angie sits down with veteran childbirth educator and doula Andrea Lythgoe to unpack how a thoughtful class can transform uncertainty into confidence, whether you’re planning an unmedicated birth or want to be epidural-ready. We explore what a local class adds that videos can’t: real-world insight into your birthplace, equipment practice, and the language to navigate risks, benefits, and alternatives with your care team.

Across a lively, practical conversation, we compare formats and methods so you can choose what fits your goals, budget, and schedule. From weekend intensives to seven-week series, from live online to private sessions, you’ll hear how each option supports different learning styles. We break down the pros and cons of hospital versus independent classes, why quality varies, and how to spot a program that respects your birth plan. You’ll also get a clear overview of approaches like the Bradley Method, hypnosis-based programs, Birthing From Within, and research-forward courses tailored to analytical minds.

We also address the reality of information overload. Social media and TV can raise awareness and anxiety at the same time, leaving parents informed yet confused. Andrea shares how skilled educators filter noise, answer nuanced questions in real time, and guide you through hands-on practice so comfort measures become second nature. Expect actionable tips on matching a class to your personality, using local knowledge to reduce surprises, and carving out time to prepare with intention.

Ready to feel prepared instead of overwhelmed? Press play, learn how to pick a class that truly fits, and then share this episode with a friend who’s expecting. If you find value here, follow the show, leave a quick review, and tell us: what’s the one skill you most want to practice before labor?

Visit our website, here: https://birthlearning.com/
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Follow us on Instagram at @birthlearning

Show Credits

Host: Angie Rosier
Music: Michael Hicks
Photographer: Toni Walker
Episode Artwork: Nick Greenwood
Producer: Gillian Rosier Frampton
Voiceover: Ryan Parker

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to the Ordinary Doula Podcast with Angie Rosier, hosted by Birth Learning, where we help prepare folks for labor and birth with expertise coming from 20 years of experience in a busy doula practice, helping thousands of people prepare for labor, providing essential knowledge and tools for positive and empowering birth experiences.

SPEAKER_02:

This is Angie Roger, your host, and I have a special guest here with me today. This is someone I've known for quite a long time, well over 20 years now, a good friend and colleague of mine named Andrea Lithko. Andrea is a birth doula, has done that for a long time, childbirth educator, done that even longer. And she has has her fingers in a lot of cool things actually. She's done some work with Lama's and ICA over the years. And so we're going to talk to her today about childbirth education and how, why, when, where, what in the world would we want to prepare for childbirth? So, Andrea, please expound on our introduction of you. Give us a little bit more details about yourself. And then let's dive into our topic.

SPEAKER_01:

I have been teaching childbirth classes for about 28 years, and I teach currently teach in a hospital-based setting. I have also taught independently, and I've done a lot of private classes. I love teaching childbirth classes. In fact, when I decided to make a career change about five or six years ago, I started thinking, what do I love about what I do? And I realized I'd found myself going down rabbit holes about childbirth teaching, how to be a better teacher, how to communicate things a lot. And it ended up sending me in the direction, and I got a master's degree in instructional design. And now I also do some work designing all kinds of trainings, online trainings, in-person trainings, and those sorts of things as well. So I have a background in that as well.

SPEAKER_02:

Very cool. Tell us a little bit about your work with um, because you've presented at some conferences, written for some some pretty cool journals. Tell us a little bit about that part of your background too.

SPEAKER_01:

I have. I've presented at conferences for both uh Lama's International and the Dona International in various different conferences. I wrote a website uh called understandingresearch.com for birth professionals to help understand how to read and understand research. And I have done some volunteer work. I serve on the committee, the continuing education committee for Lama's. So any continuing education activities that come from Lama's International or are approved by Lamause International, I've helped plan and prepare those.

SPEAKER_02:

Very cool. Awesome, awesome, awesome. So let's talk a little bit about people that are pregnant, they're getting ready, they're gathering information. What does that look like? Why do they want to do that? Where can they do that? What are the best, quote unquote, best ways to do that?

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Well, let's start first with the why. Why do a childbirth class? In this day and age of the internet, when there's so much information online, why not just watch some YouTube videos, follow some good content creators who talk about birth? Isn't that enough? I think that childbirth classes offer a great deal more than that kind of learning. That kind of learning is absolutely beneficial, and I do feel like parents can and should do that. But childbirth classes will help you fill in any gaps. You don't know what you don't know, and sometimes when you're doing kind of a DIY, let's just watch some YouTube videos here and there, you might miss topics that are important that you wish you had known about. A childbirth class will be more comprehensive and will fill in some of those gaps. They'll help you learn about the birth process. They can, with hands-on practice, help you build confidence in your ability to work with your labor. So that really helps as well. They can also help you learn your options because if you don't know your options, you really don't have options. If you you can't say, well, what if we did this instead? If you don't know that whatever this instead is exists.

SPEAKER_02:

Right, right. So you bring you bring up a good point. A lot of people, I think, um, get their get their information in bits and pieces, right? They may be looking for it, they may not be looking for it. It just comes across their social media scrolling. Um, so they might think they have a pretty full understanding, but that curriculum, the full curriculum, they're not maybe exploring everything they need. They don't even know they need to explore, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Interesting. A good child with class, especially a local one, can help you know what to expect when you come to your local to your birthplace. Right. So uh as a child with educator, even though I'm based in one hospital, I am familiar with what the other hospitals in my area do. I frequently get people coming to my classes who are birthing in other hospitals, who are birthing in a birth center, or who are even planning a home birth. So it's um something that I can help them understand what to expect when they get to their birthplace.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep. Whereas you're nationally syndicated, if you will, right? Like online stuff, they're not going to be as detailed to your region or your facility or your provider as a local provider could be. A local class.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, cool. Okay, awesome. And because we are familiar with the air with those birthplaces, we can help them learn to navigate the system. And I think that is something that a lot of expected parents are concerned about. You know, well, are the nurses going to be nice? Am I going to be able to speak up for myself? How can I do this? You know, and again, that can help in a child-based class. That's one of the things I try to help my students be able to learn is how to navigate the system, how to bring up concerns you have, how to discuss risks and benefits and alternatives and all those kind of things with the care provider.

SPEAKER_02:

Very cool. Good deal. Okay, and anything else.

SPEAKER_01:

You also meet other people during the same stage of life. And that can be helpful as well. And in an in-person live class, you can get your questions answered. If you're watching a YouTube video and something doesn't make sense, you can't ask a question.

SPEAKER_02:

Also, like like you said, with other people, other people might ask questions you didn't know about, right? So you can learn a lot from other other class members as well. Like that. And the feedback, the live feedback is vital.

SPEAKER_01:

Very, very, very helpful. So I think there's a lot to say for a structured class, ideally a local class, um, but if that's not one that fits in your in your schedule or your time or your budget, I think even um a more broad national online class is worth your time.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. Very cool. Okay. So that's our why. Um what about the hows? Or or which direction do you want to go next, actually?

SPEAKER_01:

Like I think it choosing which class to take sometimes can be a little bit overwhelming. Oh yeah, okay. So uh think about things like the class format. Do you want an online class? Would an online class be live or would it be pre-recorded? What options might there be for a pre-recorded class to get those questions answered? Do you want to do a weekend class where you learn everything in one lump weekend? Do you want to do like a series? Uh the class that I teach is seven weeks long, so you would come every Wednesday night for seven weeks in my class. Do you want to do private classes where you hire someone to come and meet with you and go over with you with just you? You could do an in-the-hospital class, you could do an out-of-the-hospital class. There are pros and cons to both of those, but uh consider that. I like I said, I teach in a hospital, but I've also taught independently previously. Um, there are pros and cons to both. In a hospital class, I can take my class on a tour. Actually, if the room, if the if laboring delivery isn't too busy, I can actually break down the bed and get a student sitting in the bed and show them how to use the bed, how to squat, how to attach the squat bar, all those kinds of things that I was never able to do when I taught independently. So that's definitely helpful as well. Very cool.

SPEAKER_02:

What are some drawbacks to a hospital class?

SPEAKER_01:

Um they vary widely in quality. True. So I find that I work really hard to have an excellent hospital class. Um, but I have heard from dual clients um who've taken classes elsewhere that they felt like it was more of a how to be a compliant patient class. Yeah, yeah. You know, so they vary in quality. I would definitely talk with friends. I would talk with um people you know who've taken the class. Um, I would look at online reviews and those kinds of things. Yeah. To try and find a good class that is a good fit for you.

SPEAKER_02:

Because I just in our area, I'm aware of some hospitals, and I think you're speaking to this for sure, like they control their curriculum pretty closely. They don't let their educators talk about certain things, right? They're a little bit hospital biased, I guess we could say. So that might not be just depending on what your birth goals are, right? Um, the best course of action for you. So okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's not been my case as a hospital-based educator. I don't know that I would have stuck around for the 24 years I've been there if it wasn't. Right. Yeah, agreed.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So hospital classes, just like independent classes, will vary in quality.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep, yep. Absolutely. Okay. And then um tell me um hospital classes. You know, we know the epidural rate in the United States and it varies by hospital, by state. Um just like you said, being a some of the hospital classes help you be a compliant patient class, basically. Um, but tell us a little bit about hospital classes that prepare you for unmedicated birth or out of hospital birth. Is that does is that possible?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I I believe I'm doing it, so I think it's possible. Absolutely. My hospital offers the class that I teach, which is a specific class for people planning an unmedicated birth. They call it natural childbirth class. They also offer a shorter length childbirth prep class for people who are planning to use an epidural. It covers a lot less of the hands-on techniques for labor coping. And so they're a little bit different classes, and that's actually one thing I would look at when you're considering a hospital class is I would look at what is the range of classes that the hospital offers. If the hospital offers uh different styles of classes to meet different people's plans and goals, I think that's a very good sign.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, very cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. And then there's um different um methods or programs or or ways of teaching childbirth. There are uh organizations that certify childbirth educators like LAMAS, ICEA, and CAPPA, where the childbirth educator writes their own curriculum and has a lot of freedom to teach what they believe is most relevant and helpful for the people in their location. And then there are others like um the Bradley method, um, hypnobirthing, hypnobabies, any of the hypnosis type ones, and birthing from within that are more of a set curriculum where the educator has to teach what the organization, the curriculum that the organization provides. Um those uh methods tend to be a little bit more of a deep dive into one specific type of coping mechanism. Um and sometimes the independent, you know, where the educator writes their own curriculum is the same way. Personally, I prefer to teach a broad curriculum. Um, I like to think of my class as more like a buffet, you know, here's a bunch of different things you could choose for. Find the techniques that work for you from what I'm teaching. I like that, yeah. You know, but some people like there's a lot of people they know that uh relaxation and breathing and mental preparation works really well for them in their daily life. And maybe one of the hypnosis classes is a great fit for their personality, their existing, um, coping, you know, the things they use at day-to-day life, and that works great for them. So the key is to find a class that is a good fit for you. And if you don't know what you what things you use to cope and what might work for you, then I would suggest looking for a class with a broader range of things.

SPEAKER_02:

Very cool. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about um so some of the the courses you just outlined, like hypnobirthing, hypnobabies. Um, there's several, right? And as I look at this list over the years, it's hard to keep track of all the different methods there are now.

SPEAKER_01:

Um absolutely is, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So how how do we find a best method? Like there's some that are tried and true that have changed over years, they've evolved as people's needs have evolved. Um what are some of your favorites at this point in time? Because it's always going to be changing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Um it's hard to say if there's a favorite, uh, just because I I really believe in the best fit for the right person. So you know, I don't know that any are necessarily better than the others. Um, but one that's been around for a very long time is the Bradley Method. Uh, it's been around probably since the late 60s, early 70s. It used to be called husband coached childbirth. They've evolved and now they call themselves the Bradley Method, and they they're pretty in-depth classes. Their classes are 12 weeks long usually, and they talk a lot about nutrition, they talk a lot about relationships. They do a great job of teaching partners how to help, what to say, how to support. Um, in fact, a lot of Bradley classes are actually taught by couples who've been through.

SPEAKER_02:

Um I think that's part, I don't know if it still is, but that used to be part of the requirements to teach is that you actually took the class as a pregnant couple and um used the techniques. So I don't know if that's still the case, but it's it's still recommended.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know if that's required, but it is still recommended.

SPEAKER_02:

But that style might not work for everyone, right? Like that's a long class for one thing.

SPEAKER_01:

A lot of people don't look into that class, it tends to be more expensive classes. Um, and not everyone comes to classes with a partner.

SPEAKER_02:

Right, right, exactly. And nor does do partners really want to be involved that much in many cases, right? Sometimes partners are not that interested in the heavy involvement.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. And then there's several different um organizations that do hypnosis-related stuff. There's hypnobirthing and hypnobaby. In our area, we have hypnoactive, um, we have uh you know several different options. The um all of these hypnose classes are based with self-hypnosis and deep guided imagery mental techniques, things like that, which really resonates for a lot of people and works great for a lot of people. Uh so there's a lot of benefit to that if that's something that you know works for you. If if you have struggled with breathing in the past, maybe breathing isn't, maybe this isn't the best fit for you. So uh you just need to think about if you know what works for you. Um then there's breathing from within, which is uh focuses on kind of the emotional and psychological aspects of birth. Um it's great for people who have a lot of fear about birth to kind of work through some of that fear and help with that. Um, so it can be really good for that. Uh it tends to teach a little bit less of the things like the anatomy, the physiology, the things like that. It's it's more about your own inner work and uh working for that.

SPEAKER_02:

Kind of the mental preparation, right? Psychological, emotional, mental. That's huge, I find in people's preparation and their success, their perceived success of their experience. It's such a exactly it's such a mindset, right? Like the mindset you go in. And some people find that through education they shift their mindset during their pregnancy. They may want something different for their birth after. Obviously, that's that's the whole point of education is um to discover what they want and what would be best for them for their birth. So exactly very cool.

SPEAKER_01:

And then one of the newer ones uh out there is the evidence-based birth classes. Um, these uh are for people who have really analytic minds, they want to look at the research, they want to really analyze things and and look at risks and benefits and things like that. Um, they are a fairly newer class. I'm less familiar with their curriculum than they are with the others, but it's definitely one that I I think would be a really good fit for some people.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. Very cool. So I asked you a couple of questions. Um one of them, costs. Let's talk about costs between these different methods, whether hospital or private methods. What do we know about costs of things?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, cost is going to vary widely. Uh, hospital classes do tend to be a little bit cheaper because the hospital subsidizes that. Um, and so you know that that definitely helps. One other benefit to a hospital-based class is because hospitals are already uh connected with Medicaid. If you have Medicaid, it can help pay for a hospital class. So at my hospital, people who are in Medicaid can take my classes for no charge. Cool. And so that really helps uh cost-wise for a lot of people. Classes that are outside the hospital tend to be more expensive just because the educator has more expenses. They have to uh rent a place to meet, they have to buy all of the materials, you know, the the workbook, the handouts, the you know, if they have a lotion to practice massage with all those kinds of things. Everything that's used in class is an expense that the educator has. And so when they're setting prices, they need to cover all of those expenses as well as create some income for themselves. So the out-of-hospital classes do tend to be more expensive. In our area, there are not a lot of classes through nonprofit organizations, but in some parts of the country, you can find classes through a nonprofit organization. Maybe an organization that is uh that works. With families helping families to grow, early childhood education type organizations sometimes do. So that's another option that you could look at. Those classes again tend to be a little on the cheaper side because they are nonprofits. So they tend to have some grant funding and things that might help out with that.

SPEAKER_02:

That's true. And there's some community-based classes, right? Specific to certain areas and what needs are. I know there's some, say it's a you know, a high Hispanic population might have some classes catered exactly to that population, or um, maybe it's a black community is gonna have classes catered to the the needs of their community. So we don't have to just do mainstream, right? We can look at different um particular needs of people taking classes. Cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. Um, and uh I don't know if they're still doing it, but at one point the University of Utah had their teen mom program, had classes there specifically for teen moms.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. Very cool. And I know there's um like classes for multiples, those having twins or triplets, and um, we can get pretty specific, right? On on different um so there's there's options out there. There are, yeah. Based on people's needs. Very cool.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So when you're looking at how to choose a class, I would start with, you know, what's your goal for your birth? Would you like to have an unmedicated birth? Would you like to use an epidural? What do you want to do? Find a class that will help you to achieve that goal you have. Um think about what you hope to learn. You know, um, like I said, talk to friends, talk to family, talk to or look at online reviews, talk to your care provider, and and consider your budget and your logistics and you know, what time do you have? A lot of the private classes that I have done over the years have been been for people who are in professions that don't have schedules that allow for a regular every Wednesday night for seven weeks. You know, I did I've done I did probably a couple dozen classes for people who are airline pilots because their schedules are so varied and they can't guarantee that they would be there, you know, things like that. So there are options out there that you can make it work. Um I also for once did a series of childbirth classes at a local very large employer that hired a lot of people in their 20s. It was a call center, and so they had I think they had in the valley something like a thousand uh employees who were uh under the age of 35. And so they hired me to come in and do a series of childbirth classes during lunch hour. Cool. Everybody would bring their lunch and we'd sit in a conference room. I had you know 15, 20 people, and a lot of them did not have their partners there because it was during the workday. Right. Wow, that's cool. And we met twice a week for five weeks, an hour each time, and they would bring their food and eat it, and it was a definitely a different style of class.

SPEAKER_02:

But what a great way to meet people where they are and provide something on a local level, right? Super accessible to people. That's right. The company paid for it, and so it worked. Awesome, very awesome. That's cool. Yeah. So you talked a little bit about logistics. Um, I want to ask you a question that I think that will come into. But you've taught for a long time. What kind of shifts and trends have you seen over the last 28 years? Um, because we've had a lot of change in the world over the last 28 years, but what shifts have you seen um in the childbirth education world? What are our rates like? What are people, what's changing what people want and what they do for about it?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, I think what, especially when social media came out and with the rise of the content creator, I think initially we had a little dip in people coming to childbirth classes. But it seems to be coming back up largely because people have questions and they're getting confused by conflicting things they're seeing online and they just want to be able to ask questions.

SPEAKER_02:

I like that. So that that's you bring up a good point because I have noticed with my clients since the rise of social media and influencers and content creators. Um, people come to me as a doula or to classes that I've teached as well with more information. We're not have we don't have to start what is a cervix, what is a uterus, what is an epesiotomy. We we can start further down the road and get into some deeper material and have those conversations. So people come with more information. Is that true? You think okay. I think so. I think that's true.

SPEAKER_01:

I think they also come with more confusion.

SPEAKER_02:

I yep. That's the I love that you bring up that point because I think in the earlier days of um getting all of our a lot of our information from social media, we just trusted everything, right? But so often now, I don't know, you probably feel the same thing in your classes or with clients. People say, I went down a rabbit hole, Google universe, like I got scared, I got confused, they hear conflicting information. Um, and people are strongly opinionated, right? A lot of these content creators are gonna be on one side of things or the other side of things, and a lot of us are in the middle somewhere and and just want some non-biased information. So have you you have seen, and I'm glad to hear this because I have definitely noticed a dip in people going to like investing their time um and their efforts in childbirth education, but you're seeing an uprise in that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I'm seeing it come back up, I think.

SPEAKER_02:

Good, good, good. I love that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And I'm also seeing um a great deal of uh influence from TV shows and movies. Um every now and then I will hear someone say, you know, oh, there was this scary birth on Gray's Anatomy. And I think, okay, now I gotta go watch that episode.

SPEAKER_02:

Let's go see what they're talking about.

SPEAKER_01:

I know I'm gonna get questions about it. Um and I I do see that a lot, you know, or or I'll hear about a movie. Um, you know, there was a movie a couple years ago, maybe about seven or eight years ago, um, about an ex some people's experience with postpartum depression and psychosis. And it wasn't a movie I was terribly interested in, but I felt like I had to go watch it because I knew I was gonna get questions about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so yeah, that's one thing that I'm trying to kind of stay up on. Um, you know, it's been 23 years since I last had a baby, but I still follow a lot of birth content creators and see a lot of the movies and TV shows and things with births because I know that that is something that my students are seeing and it's impacting how they feel about birth and sometimes making them scared.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think um, you know, as you're talking about uh in-person classes and the benefit of that, like well, to tell me, like, uh it seems like a lot of people want to learn from their couch, right? They want to learn in their pajamas, they um don't want to have to leave the house again that day if they did leave that day. So has that impacted just the how our society shifted with the everything's available online? Um, do you think that's had an impact as well? Are people willing to come for seven weeks or four weeks or a whole weekend?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, I think so. I I have been pleasantly surprised that over the course of my seven weeks, I very rarely lose people. I tend to end with the same number of students that I started with. Cool. Um, you know, occasionally somebody will deliver early, that's happened before, but I very rarely have people who just stop coming. So they find value in it. They find value. That's what I keep telling myself. You know, I must be doing all right because they're coming back. Nobody starts coming back. Yeah, people are still having babies. They're still having babies, but they're still coming to my class, and they're yeah, they're still interested in learning. And so that's that's important to me.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. And I know it makes a huge difference. It blows my mind sometimes um working with whether patients in the hospital or um you know on the lactation side of things or in childbirth, and how little they know, or you know, how little they prepared themselves. This is not, you know, it's like it's not the same thing as just going for a dental cleaning. Like there's a lot more moving parts to this. Um, and and like you said, people need to know their options. Like they really that's valuable to your experiences to know your options.

SPEAKER_01:

It definitely is.

SPEAKER_02:

And a good class will do that. It's cool. Okay, Andrea, any as we any anything else to add before we kind of get ready to wrap up?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, I don't think so. We've okay we've had a good conversation here, I think.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. Um, so just to wrap up again, tell us uh just a recap um top benefits why people would want to take an in-person childbirth class.

SPEAKER_01:

Um giving birth is a very active hands-on experience, and I think an active hands-on class is the way to go. I think uh meeting with other people who are in the same stage of life and connecting with them is useful, and I really uh want my students to be able to get their questions answered. The questions that people come to me with are very well thought out, interesting questions, and I love that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, they're important. It's important to them.

SPEAKER_01:

They're important for them, and I want them to be able to get those questions answered.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep, I love that. Cool. It's like you have access again to an expert, right? And uh your own personal expert for that time. So very cool. Well, hopefully, folks listening to this have um learned some of the benefits of childbirth education classes. I, having had five babies, I did take a class with every single one. I kind of just treated myself to a class. And I mean, I knew what to expect after a while and had some good things down, but I still found value in going to, and I did a couple hospital classes and some private ones too, and and just found value in one thing, like carving out time to prepare for this event, right? Like when life gets busy and you have additional kids and work, um, I found it incredibly valuable to really carve out the time um that'll quickly go away in nine months to give you know some justice to the preparation for that. So very cool. Awesome, awesome.

SPEAKER_01:

And even as a professional doula, I mean, I knew you with your last two because you were a marginalism. Exactly. Even as a professional doula, there's value in carving out time to plan and prepare for your own birth.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep, absolutely. And my husband and I, we took um a good, I think it was a six-week series class, the la our last two babies. And um, it was we had to find babysitters at that point, and you know, but yeah, it was very important to put ourselves in that space of preparation. So very cool. Well, Andreas, thanks for spending some time with us today. Sure appreciate it and your years of expertise. Um you, I've always learned so much from you and and love and appreciate your deep knowledge on so many things. So thanks for being with us today.

SPEAKER_01:

You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a pleasure. So we want to wrap up this episode of the Ordinary Deal Podcast, as always, with a reminder to please make a human connection today. That's important. Go out and um, whether digitally, in person, physically, like please connect with someone um in your life today. You'll appreciate it, and so will they. Be with us next time. We hope to see you again.

SPEAKER_00:

Episode credits will be in the show notes. Tune in next time as we continue to explore the many aspects of giving birth.