Athletic Fortitude Show
Athletes all over the world endure countless mental physical and psychological adversities over the course of their careers. We are here to bring you the solutions to those adversities with some of the top professional athletes, coaches, and sport and performance psychologists around the world!
Athletic Fortitude Show
MLB All-Star Jonathan Lucroy on Finding Purpose Beyond The Game
Join us as we explore the multifaceted life and mindset of former MLB catcher Jonathan Lucroy, who shares insights on overcoming failure, the importance of positivity, and the challenges of intertwining politics and sports. Through candid conversation, we uncover the value of personal growth while navigating pressures in both arenas.
• Discussing the reflections of baseball as a metaphor for life
• Insights on resilience in overcoming failures
• Exploring the journey from athlete to entrepreneur
• Parenting lessons rooted in positivity and selflessness
• Addressing the complexities of political discourse within sports
• The significance of emotional stability for men in family roles
• Advocating for free speech and open dialogue in athletic cultures
• The importance of balance between character and performance in sports
• Reflecting on the duty of athletes as role models in society
• Closing thoughts on embracing challenges and personal growth.
Welcome back to the show everybody. On today's episode we have Jonathan Lucroy. He's a former MLB catcher. He's a current entrepreneur A little precursor to today's episode.
Speaker 1:In my question originally starting this podcast, I wanted to uncover all elements of the mindset related to athletes. Part of that, I think, in a conversation I've been looking to avoid, was politics. Politics does come up in this conversation. I want to say my job as an interviewer is to allow everybody to kind of speak their mind freely, what their beliefs are and why they believe them. I encourage everyone of every political and religious belief in the athletic sphere to please come on the show I'd love to interview. Give you an opportunity to tell your story. So be prepared.
Speaker 1:We get into politics here. It is a interesting conversation. My job is to be an unbiased arbitrator of the truth and let people determine what their truth is. I love this conversation. I do not endorse anybody's beliefs other than my own. I do my best to remain neutral in all scenarios. However, it does go down a path that some may find offensive. So be prepared, tune in, and this episode is brought to you by All Black, everything Performance Energy Drink the official energy drink of the Athletic Fortitude Podcast, available in Walmart, meijer and select GNC franchise locations. And on today's episode, jonathan LeCroy. What's funny is I grew up in Pittsburgh Pirates fan. I absolutely hated you for about five years because that was my fanboy days, but all I wanted was the Pirates to have more hitters like you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know there's a lot of. You know I mean, look, baseball is a great game, man, it's a United game and you know there's a you could still admire guys. They gave your hometown team and you know, remember, I was a kid I hated the Yankees. I grew up with Braves fans. So you know you have your hometown team and I grew up a Braves fan. So you know, you have your hometown team and I grew up in Florida and everybody in the South is pretty much if you grew up there, you're pretty much a Braves fan. So you know it it's. You know Chipper Jones is my guy and all the mid nineties Braves teams, you know, and it's really funny, you know it's people get so fired up about their hometown teams and all this stuff and I was like, man, baseball is a uniting sport, dude, and I played for 11 teams, right, and so I'm not loyal to anybody.
Speaker 2:I'm a fan of the game and I don't care what uniform you're wearing, I'm a fan of the game and you know I like what the game is. To me, it's the most reflective game of life, you know, because it's a game about overcoming failure. It's not about who wins the most, about who fails the least, that's most successful, which is contradictory to what we would think in life Right and traditionally a lot of other sports. And so I think baseball is a beautiful game because it's so reflective of, you know, our experience on planet earth. You know overcoming failure, always overcoming diversity, fighting for it.
Speaker 2:You know stand. You know, whenever you get knocked down, get back up and a three out of 10, man, 300 batting average, and so it's. It's a wonderful game and that's why I like it. And no matter where you're from or what team you grew up watching, I mean, if you're a real pure fan of the game, you appreciate the talent from every team. So that's the way I look at it. So I feel really blessed and fortunate to be able to do it as long as I did.
Speaker 1:It's funny To the Nibbets, to the Nibbets fans, the visual that comes out. I had a pretty massive shift when I became a college athlete and how I viewed the game and viewed athletics, because you see that other side of the negativity and you're so attracted to it for whatever reason, even though these people have no idea who you are. But their opinion sometimes can cut deeper than the people you know and you're closest with, and your teammates and your friends and your family. It's just such an interesting dynamic, particularly with baseball too, with inherently the failure that comes every single game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, look, you're right man. I mean it's overcoming the. You know it's, it's. It's easier for me, like I know a lot of guys, a lot of business people now that they only hire former athletes. And um, just because it's, you know, athletes in general not just baseball players, but athletes in general are used to overcoming that failure and overcoming um, you know the adversity and all those things we just talked about, and so they focus on hiring former athletes. And you know, I have a company I invested in who is run by Navy SEALs. Seriously, and when I heard about this company I'm like I'm investing in that because those guys don't lose, you know, and so it's. You know it's. Athletes in general are used to this, and so it's. You know it's. Athletes in general are used to this. You know a lot of military. You know high level military special operator types are very over used to the same thing overcoming failure, facing adversity.
Speaker 1:And so you know, I think we have a distinct advantage, you know, in the, really in corporate America, because of that.
Speaker 2:What do you think worked best for you to help you move on from failure faster? Well, I mean, look, you have to. Baseball is a game that you can strike out four times and then your fifth at bat, you go up there and hit a homer and win the game. And so it's so important. I remember my college coach told me that one time I was real hot all year and we went to a series we were actually New Mexico State University, of all places, and we were out there. I struck out two or three times and he goes hey, you got one more bat, don't waste it. And I went up there and hit a homer. And so it's about you gotta, you gotta.
Speaker 2:Baseball's a pitch to pitch game, a play to play game. You know, if you make an error, you go okay, I'm gonna get the next one. Hey, I may, I had a bad swing. I struck out hey, I'm gonna get him the next time. You have to constantly, constantly, constantly look forward to your next at bat or your next play, or your next pitch, or whatever it is your next swing. Um, you know. And so because I did that since I was, I can't say I've done it my life, you know, but I started playing baseball at seven. Um, I would say that whenever I got to the upper levels of baseball whether you know, division one, college, and then got drafted, you know it was really ingrained in me by then to constantly be looking forward to overcoming failure and be ready for the next play. And so you know it's just been ingrained in me over my life, over my career in baseball and you know I was very fortunate to have my dad was pretty awesome guy and he, he was extremely optimistic all the time, positive, optimistic, um, uplifting, which in baseball you, it's almost like baseball is such a negative game because you're failing, you know, six or seven. You're failing seven times out of 10, if you're one of the best hitters Right, and so if you're failing seven times out of 10, that's a lot of that's a lot of struggles, a lot of failure. So he counteracted that cause. He played, my dad played a lot and he was a professional softball player.
Speaker 2:But after you know, if you counteract that, you have to counteract that with an extreme positivity and belief and conviction, you know, in the positive and and the optimistic side of things just to counterbalance the negative game side. Optimistic side of things just to counterbalance the negative game side and so, um, you know it's, it's a, it's a very, it's a great game and I love it. But you know, if you, as a parent, you know, because I have two kids as a parent, even just uh, with my son he's six years old playing coach bitch, I mean it's all about with him and his teammates because I coach him, but it's all about always, always, always, positive reinforcement. Find a way to positively reinforce every play, every experience they have Good swing, good swing, good play, wow, great throw. Always something positive, always, always, always.
Speaker 1:What's the difference between people like you? How did you get there sooner or faster?
Speaker 2:Well, honestly, I think a lot of it was my, my father, I mean it's, you know it's, it's. I was fortunate. You know I can't not everyone can say that and you know that's not their fault. However, it's important for us as adults, especially as men, you know, with our children. I don't know, are you married? You have kids, anything?
Speaker 1:I'm married. I have two daughters Awesome, and I don't know are you married?
Speaker 2:Do you have kids anything? I'm married, I have two daughters. Awesome dude, so you get it. So you know, it's always about you know being super optimistic, super positive with them and the bright side, the glasses half full versus half empty. We don't want you know, negative mindsets are deadly and it's about you know the positive mindset, if you can maintain that with vision. Look, it's hard and I have an advantage because I had a father that did that with me. You know, and I do that with my children now Always the bright side, always the bright side. You know, fear is obviously negative, but fear is debilitating.
Speaker 2:There's a famous quote I think Babe Ruth said it or somebody. He said you can never let the fear of striking out keep you from swinging the bat, or something like that, and in life that's very accurate. You can't let the fear of failure or the fear of you know the struggle that will come, keep you from starting or keep you from you know, striving to achieve that goal or whatever it is you're trying to do to accomplish, but like, look, we have to a lot, of, a lot of, we have to read for people that struggle with this kind of thing. You know, you know a lot of it comes from childhood stuff and again, I'm not a psychologist or anything but, um, a lot of this stuff comes from childhood and the way we're, we're, the, the, you know the thought patterns that were ingrained from our childhood. Um, you know the way we, we, our thought processes, like that's how you know we think, and so how we learn to think this way. We have to reorganize our brain and and really, you know there's a multitude of books about it, about this kind of thing, self-help type stuff. But again, I'm not, I'm not a, I'm not a psychologist or anything, but I will say that we, we have to force ourselves. It's like, well, you, well, you know Jocko Willink is Jocko. You know Navy SEAL Jocko says he has a.
Speaker 2:The way that they would do it is like, and, as a Navy SEAL is, he would actually flip it in his brain whenever they were at a point of time of struggle and you know he would talk about is, you know, whenever, during hell week and Navy SEAL training, he would, he would look at every obstacle as something positive. So they go oh, we got to run five miles, good. Oh, we got to swim 10 miles, good. Oh, we got to do 100 pushups Good, you know he would switch everything around in his mind for it to be actually a good thing. You know, and think about that, like, think about it's like you know what your struggle Good. Good, it's an opportunity for me to overcome. Oh man, I'm struggling, whatever. I'm overweight good, I'm going to go to the gym and I'm going to work out every single day for a month and then we're going to see where I'm at, I'm going to show myself what I can do, or others, you know, whoever. It's all about switching that in our brain and looking for great opportunities to overcome and succeed, right.
Speaker 2:So you know, in baseball, like you go up there and strike out three times and go up there fourth or back and get a hit and win the game, right. So I would always, you know, get pissed off. I get angry after my. If this happened right, something bad happened early in the game and I felt like I screwed up or whatever. I would get pissed off at myself and said you're going to go up there and you're going to light this guy up, you're next to bat, you're going to go take it out on him. Like I would get mad and look forward to the opportunity to go hunt that guy and that pitcher. So you know it's competing. It's competing, it's being a competitor, competing against yourself and yeah, you're competing against other people in the field, but mostly you're competing against yourself. You're competing against where you are mentally. You're competing where you are spiritually, you know, emotionally you're competing against that. Are you in control of your emotions or are you letting your emotions control you so many different ways? No-transcript.
Speaker 1:Perspective switch is the big one Learning how to give things meaning and purpose and understand them from a different lens.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:And I always give the example. If you want to be courageous, you need to have an opportunity to be courageous. So when something comes at you that's unfavorable or that you don't like, instead of being like, oh this sucks, this is terrible, no, it's like well, this is the price, this is what I want to be, this is what I asked for and this is God presenting me the opportunity to now live it out.
Speaker 2:You know a lot of a lot of people. You know I'm a Christian and a lot of people look at God like he's some kind of like you know magic genie in a bottle that you rub and he just pops out and gives you. You know, gives you whatever you prayed for, right, and that's not the. That's not the deal. Like, god gives us opportunity. He gives us opportunities to to achieve things. He didn't just snap his fingers and just go, bam, lightning bolt, ok, now you're rich. You know. He gives you the opportunity to work hard. He gives you the opportunity to serve someone else. It gives you the opportunity to, I mean whatever, like it's. It's all about the opportunity he places.
Speaker 2:God make me stronger, okay. So he gives you an opportunity through a situation to make you stronger, right? He gives you God make me a better husband. He allows your wife to challenge you or come at you and you sit there and be humble and be a servant to her and tell her that you love her anyway, no matter what she says to you, right?
Speaker 2:And it's important as husbands and men, that we do that with our wives, because our wives have a very important need to feel safe, and so what they do is is they come at us and they test us through their emotions and if we get emotional back, then we fail. If we sit there and be the mountain that their emotional waves crash against, that is how they feel safe and I know it's weird and it doesn't make sense, but that's the way they are. My daughter's 14. Um and I've been married almost 15 years, so it's it's a um. It's funny, like all these opportunities that we have as men that God gives us. You know opportunities or situations to overcome, or you know whatever it is, you know it's, it's every we. You know it's, it's every we always get them.
Speaker 1:We always get them, you know it's. That's how amazing god is really to be in control of your emotions. That you know. Particularly in that video it comes back to even as a father, as a husband if I'm always out of control, that's not to say I don't kind of let down those mistakes, but to not have that stoicism it appears that I don't have myself together and that that's an acceptable way to behave, and so when my kids, my daughters or my wife are looking at me, they need me or someone in the house to be that rock right. Someone has to be able to at least appear to be unfazed, even if inside there's all this anger and everything quarreling inside. The ability to deal with that in an effective way is unbelievably critical, in my opinion. As the father, in the household.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, throughout history, I mean this is and you probably know this personally as well just in relationships with other guys. But every dangerous man that I know in a bad way dangerous. Every dangerous guy I know, not in a good way, in a bad way is emotional. He's an emotional man. Emotional men are dangerous to women, to children, to others. They're narcissistic, they're sociopathic and I'm speaking from experience. I mean, I was an emotional man for a while and a lot of it was testosterone problems and what I realized and I had super low T, so my estrogen levels were raised and I low T, some estrogen levels were raised and I was emotional and you know, emotional men aren't in control of themselves and what I found is that once I got my T levels back to where they should be, I just got a ton of clarity back at it. I'm like, wow, this is amazing how much different I see things now just because I have normal hormone levels.
Speaker 2:Now, again, we still have to be accountable to our actions and to what we do. So you know what we do and say. But I think that you know, with when it comes to men staying in control of their emotions, you know we have to be honest with ourselves. You know, my college coach used to say, you know you need to go look in a mirror, like before you go look at somebody else. Go look in a mirror and ask yourself am I doing this the right way? Am I humble through this? Am I doing it for the right reasons?
Speaker 2:You know, what I found is is that you know, whenever you're soft and you're weak as a man, you know women don't feel safe around you. Your wife doesn't feel safe around you, your daughter doesn't feel safe around you. You know, and then remember once again too, like our biggest role as husbands and fathers is that we're modeling to our children. Right, and so think about this. So you know, if you're yelling at your wife or being physical with her or whatever it is, and your son comes in and sees you doing that, the chances of him doing that to his wife one day just increase exponentially, right.
Speaker 2:Vice versa, if your daughter sees you doing it, you know she's more likely to go to meet a man that does that to her because she thinks it's. She knows it's not normal, but that's all she knows. So you know it's. It's crazy how it works, but you know. So what I've. You know, what I've really been determined to do is to model the man that my son will be when he grows up, and the model the man that my daughter marries. And I think that's our job as husbands and fathers. I really do, and you know we need more of those men out there that model, like you with your daughters, right, like you're modeling right now. You're modeling to them the future man that they will marry, and so that's extremely important. It's such a huge responsibility, right, and so you know we have to live up to that for sure.
Speaker 1:It's great to defend that successful professional athlete like yourself can be low on testosterone. When did you learn that you were low on testosterone? How did you even learn about that concept in general?
Speaker 2:My last couple of years, man, my last couple of years playing, I think it was 20. What year was that? I think it was 21. I had a blood work done. There's this guy, there's a service that does it for you, and they go through all your levels of everything and tell you what you're low in and you can supplement it with this and blah, blah, blah. And my T levels were my testosterone. No, I'm not getting you as two 80. And I said what the heck? I'm a professional athlete, I'm lifting five days a week.
Speaker 2:What's the problem here? Now, majority of that was probably stress. I mean, baseball is a stressful game. Um, but my body had been hurt and injured for three or four years and I hadn't fixed it. So I think it was really stressed out and that could have been some of it. But again, I mean, if you look just historically, over the past 23 years, testosterone levels have plummeted in general across, you know, the men's population. For what reason? For the reason why, like I don't know, could it be stuff in our food? Could it be environmental issues, Like I don't know? You know lack of sleep, maybe stress. You know radiation from phones, I mean, who knows right? So I don't know. But uh, but the science is there and you know, since I've retired, I've, I've supplemented, I put, I've gotten on testosterone to get me back to my normal levels. And it's been like dude, like a night and day thing, man. It's been crazy how much different I feel, how much better I feel. Now I think better, my emotions are like really regulated. Um, this all is game changer, man.
Speaker 2:Like game changer. Uh, low testosterone, yeah, I feel like in general.
Speaker 1:it's just not talked about in the community, even with athletes. I think athletes we just assume that everyone has high testosterone because we work out constantly.
Speaker 2:But in your case, exactly, it's just well, I mean, look, there's a ton of science behind this and you know, don't listen to me Like, go look on, go go search it on the internet. There's been several studies I don't know how many, but many studies done on this, on this issue, and, like I said, I, I, if you're a conspiracy theorist, it's like okay, they're doing it on purpose, you know. But if you look at what j like jfk or, excuse me, jfk, robert rfk, rfk is doing, he's coming in and he's going straight for all the junk and our food and all the dyes and all these things, which I think is amazing, because I do think that this stuff does contribute to a lot of these issues. What we eat directly contributes with it. Now, again, there could be some factors associated with all our technology and the radiation it puts off or whatever. I don't know. But what I do know is that our food I went to Israel, for example, and I went to Israel about six months ago and I was there and the food was just unbelievable, right, and I didn't get full, I crushed, didn't get full, I didn't get bloated, didn't get, you know, gassy or anything like that, and I felt amazing and we were eating all this like sourdough, naan and lamb, like lamb, like straight out the desert or whatever, wherever it was raised at, you know, and so it's.
Speaker 2:It was amazing and nothing was imported. It was all grown there, in Israel, and so you know. Then you come back here and, yeah, there's a lot of good food here, but then you have all this other junk that they bring in. So, you know, I'm really happy with what the RFK is doing and I really hope that there is that men start to get back to being. The testosterone levels will rise, because I think I'm not blaming it a hundred percent, but I think, whenever you look at the issues that we face from sex trafficking to abuse, to um, there's so many different things, but I think it could be. I think it's all directly related to to weak men, to weak men that are probably low T, but weak men that have issues and that need to be Probably low T, but weak men that have issues and that need to be fronted by other strong men that are doing it right in my opinion, have you always been a sports fan?
Speaker 2:No, definitely not In baseball. We're taught that really sports in general, as a professional athlete, that you don't talk about politics, but yet they politicize us. Right, they tell us to kneel for the anthem. You know what else? You know we got to celebrate Drag Queen Night on the field and I'm like no, I don't want to celebrate Drag Queen Night. That's nasty, you know. And so this is. There's no room for that. Like, you've got six girls in the stands that are seeing these dudes walk out half naked, you know, with their junk hanging out. You serious, and so it's. It's so inappropriate. And, um, you know my son's six years old, he plays he plays coach pitch baseball. You know there, and my son's six years old, he plays coach pitch baseball. There's no place for that at a baseball game and I'm not taking my son to a game to watch it so he could see something like that.
Speaker 2:It's embarrassing and you know America's pastime, or any other sport, in my opinion, and you're starting to see a real good pushback against that. I think you know guys are preying on the field. I mean, the Chiefs are preying on the field. Now, you know the people of our country that are family values oriented and really conservative Christian types, which is a majority of people, by the way. You know they are pushing back and you saw that with the election and demographics around the election. So I think that you know there's a pushback.
Speaker 2:People are tired of it and you know people are gullible in general, but they're not stupid and I think that they're sick and tired of having this stuff forced upon us, forced upon them and kind of shoved down our throat. You know, I mean dude, dude, just we want to raise our children, go to church. You know, love our wives. If you want to be gay, be gay. No one cares, just go be gay by yourself. Like, go, don't throw it on our. You know, don't force this weird stuff on our kids. Um, just let let you like. Like, let us raise our children. You know you go, do your thing, like, be an adult, whatever, but keep kids out of it. Man, be an adult. Like, go be an adult, do whatever you do. I don't have a problem with that. You know I have good friends of mine that are gay. I don't care, no one cares.
Speaker 2:You know, but whenever you bring on your ideology and you try to force it on other people, especially people's children. There's a problem with that and you're not going to do that to the majority of people in this country, especially parents. So I, um, I'm very passionate about it. I I try to think I'm decently educated on everything. I'm not. I don't know everything about everything, and if I, if I don't know something, I'll say I don't know something, um, but I do have an and I've seen it in baseball, and you know we shouldn't be glorifying this stuff and you know we shouldn't be glorifying these things, whether right or wrong or whatever you believe. You know we're not having Christian night out there, where we're bringing the cross out and walking around you know the field holding the huge cross right, like we're not doing that. So why do you guys get to do this, like what the Dodgers did, right?
Speaker 1:When did you start being of the mindset that you needed to speak up?
Speaker 2:You know it got. It was around the election and I've been thinking about this for a while and I had to make the determination based on my baseball coaching career, because I actually considered for a long time getting back into pro ball and I had multiple options to do so. I had offers to do so, to coach, and it was a lot of praying about it, a lot of back and forth and discussions and thoughts and just you know the one thing like there's a chapter, I think it's Revelation, it's in Revelation and I think it's Revelation 29,. I'll pull it up and read it to you in just a second here so I can be accurate. But in Revelation 29, I think it's 29.
Speaker 2:It says John's talking about who's going to be thrown in the lake of fire during the end times. The very first group of people he says will be thrown in the lake of fire are the egos. But the cowardly, the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, sexually immoral, blah, blah, blah, blah, idolaters, liars they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. But the cowardly number one, first one. And so I was reading that and I'd heard someone talk about it before and I said, okay, I need to. You know it was around the election and Wisconsin was a swing state and majority of my followers because I played Milwaukee or Wisconsin, and so I said you know what Screw it, man. I said this is, this is more important. You know the country my children grow up in is more important. You know the country my children grew up in is more important, and I think that you know.
Speaker 2:Obviously we saw it from the result that ended up not mattering, ended up not mattering, and you know. But I wanted to put my thoughts out there and say you know what, maybe if I could get 2,000 or 3,000 votes to switch over I mean, you know how razor thin some of these margins get on these elections. I said, you know, I wonder if maybe that this could change some things and see if I can just be helpful and be bold about it. You know, we got to be bold and we have to be courageous, you know, because one day we're going to have to answer to the Lord about it. He's going to ask us did you? You know, you believe in me? Great, you got here, but you could have done more. You could have done this, you could have done that, been more bold and more courageous.
Speaker 2:There's many, many scriptures throughout the Bible that talk about being courageous and standing up and being bold, you know, and so a lot of athletes, you know, guys are starting. I think it's really, and you're seeing it guys are really starting to step up and be honest and, and uh, truthful about what they believe. Cause I will tell you, dude, 90% of baseball players are conservative. They are, and I guarantee you, 90% at least voted for Trump. Let me ask you this you think the Cubans and the Venezuelans are conservative? You better believe it.
Speaker 1:Second time I've heard that one of my. You better get it.
Speaker 2:And not a teammate of mine. I don't want to mention names on here, but I had a teammate of mine, good friend, venezuelan guy. He came up to me one day this is during 21, and BLM was rioting and they were having all these Antifa and all this stuff. And he's like, look, look, he goes, he goes. Why do people hate america? What's going on? Why do people hate america? He goes in venezuela. My family, they eat cats and dogs. He goes and they hate.
Speaker 2:And why do people hate america here? Like that, you know. And so I mean it's, it's real and you know these, these people see it and that's what they were trying to do here. I mean it's some kind of like, you know you're not gonna, it doesn't see it, and that's what they were trying to do here. I mean it's some kind of like, you know you're not going to, it doesn't work. I mean it's, it's never worked and it won't ever work.
Speaker 2:It's responsible for more deaths ever. You know, if you look at, you know the Chinese back, you know when they had the, you know the Mao regime and all that. So it's, they've killed millions and millions of people. And so the soviet union. I mean it's, it doesn't work. But yet they think there's like some kind of like utopia at the end of the road. There's not. Capitalism is the only so far, it's the only you know on the idea. I don't say ideology, that's not the right word, it's the only. Um, capitalism is the only way so far to that has it has lifted more people out of poverty than it has put people in poverty, and so it gives you the opportunity Again, we're going to talk about opportunities it gives you the opportunity to work out of it through your hard work, through your ingenuity, through all those things, and so it's a beautiful, wonderful thing, wonderful thing.
Speaker 1:So, anyway, I could go on all day about this stuff, man why do you think conservatives, for for the last several, many years, have been afraid to speak out?
Speaker 2:cancel culture. You know, cancel culture, it's, it's, it's, it's been. You know, athletes, especially like if we ever got political or something, they would, you know, come in and be like, hey, can't say that. You know, go delete your tweet from 15 years ago because you said something that was inappropriate. And you're like, wait a second dude. Like, first of all, you're trying to, you're trying to create, you know, robots that do what you want them to do, and then yet you come down to us and say, hey, kneel for the anthem. We are telling you, encouraging them to do. And then yet you come down to us and say, hey, kneel for the anthem. We are telling you, encouraging you to kneel for the anthem. And I'm going like I'm looking at them. When they told me this, I said what I said. No, I have a friend of mine that got shot and almost died in Afghanistan. I'm not doing that because he's going to watch this game and he's going to call me and be like why did you disrespect me and my brothers that died for that flag right there? I'm not going to do that. That is not the way to protest. Whatever it is that you're protesting, even if I disagree with something like that I'm not. Look, I don't like Biden and Kamala Harris and Obama and all those people. You see me out kneeling for the anthem. It's ridiculous, it is Our guys. Don't do that. Our side, the conservatives, don't go kneel for the anthem. It's ridiculous, it is Our guys. Don't do that. Our side, the conservatives, don't go kneel for the anthem whenever they have an issue. They actually stand up and challenge a person on the issue, like a man, like an adult. Versus let's go kneel for the anthem as a form of protest, a protest to our country. Okay, you don't like it. I'll tell you what you know as a form of protest a protest our country. Okay, you don't like it. I'll tell you what you can go to.
Speaker 2:I went to Israel, right, and I went down near. I went down to one of the villages. I was attacked by Hamas and got everybody died and Gaza was right there. It was seriously, probably two miles away from the village we were at. I have a picture of it on my phone and my thought is okay, you're so unhappy here, you hate it here. I'll tell you what. Let's go down to Gaza. Let's see how much you hate America. Then let's see how much right, it's a serious people.
Speaker 2:See America for, you know, whenever you're comfortable. Okay, this is why we've gotten to this point, right? So America is a great, wonderful country and it's made a lot of people's lives very comfortable, you know, because it's capitalism and hard work and entrepreneurship and it gives opportunities and blah, blah, blah. And it's the greatest country in the history of the world in every aspect. You know it's the most charitable country ever, and every year there are more Americans specifically Christians, by the way more Americans give more charitable donations to other countries and causes around the world than any other country in the world. It's huge Hundreds of billions of dollars a year that we give to other countries. Just the populace, not the government, the populace.
Speaker 2:And you know we've made our country so profitable and so comfortable for a lot of people. I mean, you can go if you're hungry, you can go down the street and you can go into the restaurant or the grocery store. You can buy food right. Only during natural disasters or something crazy is there a lack of lack thereof, of that. But for the majority of our lives I've never. I don't know about you, but you know there was never a time whenever I couldn't, could never get food and I didn't grow up rich or anything.
Speaker 2:Now I know there are people that do struggle with that, that are poor and struggle, and I understand that there are people like that here in our country, and so there is. It's not like it's a hundred percent for everybody, but I will say that our country is extremely easy to live in and as compared to other countries, and so people have gotten for lack of a better term soft around that and gotten comfortable. And so people have gotten for lack of a better term soft around that and gotten comfortable. And when people get comfortable, they start creating problems. That's why people that are disciplined with working out, disciplined with their work, disciplined with things, they do things that struggle, they do things intentionally that are hard to do.
Speaker 2:Those people are always the most disciplined, always the most happy. Discipline equals freedom. That's Jocko Willink, same thing. Discipline equals freedom. And there's so many people that aren't disciplined, and so that's why we are where we are, with not everybody, but I'd say I don't know, I can't speak for the whole country, but a lot of people, um, feel don't like america because they're so comfortable, like it's so terrible, you know, and it's not dude, like go go visit other countries, man. I encourage everyone to do that countries.
Speaker 1:Man, I encourage everyone to do that. I don't think we're designed to be happy. I think part of the human flaw is seeking happiness. I think we are designed to be connected Because if you look at any endeavor, usually the happiest you are is in pursuit of achievement. Then when you get to achievement, it's more relief than it is joy. Or if it is joy, it's short-lived and then it's on to the next challenge.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so, when you're constantly seeking happiness, I feel like you lose sight of what happiness really is, which is the pursuit of something, the chase of growing, the opportunity to get better.
Speaker 2:I agree with you. I think what you're talking about, said differently, is purpose. When people have purpose around what they do, they're happy. And I will tell you that this is a personal thing that whenever I was playing, there was a point in my career, whenever I had it all right, I had millions of dollars, my wife, my, my child Well, I just had my daughter at the time, my son wasn't born. My wife was healthy, I was healthy, my, my daughter was healthy, I was. I was one of the best players in the world at my position.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, people were glorifying me everywhere I went and I was really unhappy. I was and I know that sounds crazy, but I was miserable and I was smoking a lot of weed because of it and doing all these other things to find it. And, um, I just unplugged my headphones for a second. I'll keep talking, but I was. I was supplementing my happiness or trying to supplement my happiness with, you know, with other other things. And what I, what I, what I, what I later on figured out, is that I had made baseball my purpose and I had made what I did work-wise my purpose. And I will say this that when you make what you do your purpose for a job, you're going to be unhappy. It's like for you, like you know, say, your job is a professional podcaster. If you base all your happiness and purpose around podcasting, versus basing all your happiness and purpose around your children, being a father, being a husband, being a brother, being a son or whatever, um, you know, being a man of God serving other people, when you place your purpose in what you do and not who you are, you're going to find unhappiness because we think about it Like we're flawed man, like we're screwed up.
Speaker 2:Even I mean day one. You know Adam and Eve. Even I mean day one. You know adam and eve. You know day one, adam and eve, and they had everything. They literally met god literally, and he said don't eat from that tree. And he did. They did it anyway.
Speaker 2:Eve got tempted by the devil because the devil knew he couldn't tempt adam right, because adam's a man and he's a strong and supposed to can't. So he went to eve and emotionally tempted her and then she went to Adam and manipulated him and the next thing, you know, here we are. Here we are Now. We're all fallen right and that's why we need Jesus, because he's the only one that can save us. Because we're not, we're all fallen. And so because we're fallen creatures and you know, internal, because we're falling, just naturally falling creatures, and we're always going to fail, no matter what, we're always going to struggle, we're always going to sin, no matter what.
Speaker 2:You know, we tend to look at what we do as our purpose and it's not what you do, that's your purpose, it's who you are as a purpose, that's your purpose, is who you are as a purpose.
Speaker 2:And then you know, if we focus on who we are as our purpose husband, father, you know, a servant to others, helping other people then what we do will just come out as a byproduct of that, you know. And so I, I noticed a major change, not only in my marriage but in my, my father, my father duties and me as a person. You know, I just wasn't. I wasn't a bad guy or anything, but you know, I still try my best to help other people as much as I could, but it was. I was a pretty selfish guy. I mean, we look, whenever you're in the big leagues and you're playing and you're, it's all about your body and taking care of yourself and then your performance and all these things. You kind of get caught up in that and a lot of guys struggle with it. People in general struggle with that. They just struggle with making what they do their purpose, and it's not that man the founding principle of my company was a deputy piece yeah.
Speaker 1:Putting all of what you do into the sport you play, yeah, and sports is naturally an inherently selfish thing to do when you're trying to achieve it at a high level, when it's gone in the snap of the fingers, or whether you're performing really well and you're like why am I happy? And for me it didn't matter.
Speaker 1:I've been a devout Catholic for the majority of my life. I was engaged to my high school sweetheart, who's now my wife. I was well-educated multiple degrees. I've lived out my dream, playing for the University of Pittsburgh football. Got to touch the NFL for four days before I got cut, and yet I was so miserable. I touched the NFL for four days before I got cut, and yet I was so miserable. And I had to learn that I had put everything, all my self-value, into my sport and I wasn't recognizing those other parts of who I was.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I mean, look, I understand this. Like it takes failure and struggle to see this. And you know it takes suffering to see this. And suffering is good if you look at it from a certain perspective, like I spoke earlier, like trying to twist the positive side around. Like you know, I'm glad I went through what I went through and all of it was self-inflicted. And you know, we all have struggle in our life sooner or later. And I will say that recognizing that and seeing that for what it is and learning from it and growing and saying, okay, you know, being objective with yourself, looking at yourself, um, fronting yourself, confronting yourself, you know that's extremely important.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of men that don't do that at all and again, I guess it's not about women. I don't ever want to talk about women other than how a real man should treat them and handle them emotionally and physically and all that. But in terms of how they think, I got no idea, because I'm a man, so I don't know. But in terms of how they think, I got no idea, because I'm a man, so I don't know. What I do know is that women inherently, without even realizing it, want a man. That is this way and they feel safe with a man that is this way, that his purpose is in who he is as a husband and a father, not in who he is as a baseball player or whatever it is what you do. Or football player, because whenever you do that, you become very selfish. You know when you make your purpose about what you do. Or football player, Because whenever you do that, you become very selfish.
Speaker 1:You know when you make your purpose about what you do and not who you are. If you make it about who you are, then you become unselfish, naturally, you know so. So one thing I'll say, being a Catholic and there's been a lot of criticism of Catholics and the Catholic- Church and you know some of them are very, very fair of Catholics and the Catholic Church, and some of them are very, very fair.
Speaker 1:People want to point to an example of Catholics who go to church on Sundays but are terrible people, and my counter-argument to that is always well, first I want to premise too. I don't try to project my beliefs on anyone. This is just what.
Speaker 1:I believe, this is how I live my life. It's just because someone goes to church on Sunday doesn't make them a Catholic or make them a Christian. It's how you live every day of the week. So just because there are examples of those people, they're not the pillar of what being a Christian or Catholic is supposed to be. And the standard I hold myself to is I have to be the same person on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday that I am on Sunday and I have to spend time in prayer and I have to embody what it means to be a Catholic. And it's the same thing with identity. If we want to be a certain type of person, we have to embody that and we have to live it out.
Speaker 1:I can't just say I'm something and then not live it. And I think that's where a lot of discontent internally comes from is because we're saying one thing but we're living another.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's and look, it's multiple things about that. I'm a Christian, but I don't care. I'm a Jesus guy. Man, I don't. You know. I know a lot of Catholics. I know a lot of Christians. I know a lot of Christians. I know a lot of. I know some Mormons. I'm a Jesus guy and I don't know how you, I don't know how anyone gets there. It's not for me to talk about how you get there, whether it's right or it's wrong, as long as you get there, and so I'm, I'm not qualified to speak in any of that stuff. So as long as you get there and that Jesus is the guy, that's all I care about. You know, and so I think that you know.
Speaker 2:Number one I heard this from a guy. He said you know, sometimes, most of the time, the only Bible anyone will ever read, or the only Bible someone might ever read, is the way that you live your life or I live my life. Bible someone might ever read is the way that you live your life or I live my life. The number one enemy of Christians is other Christians. Number one enemy of Catholics is other Catholics. You know, and so there's. That's why I tell people look, man, I'm a Jesus dude man Like I don't identify with anything other than that other than him. And so you know, because people like I know a lot of Christians that are not good at proclaiming Christians that don't act than that other than him. And so you know, cause people like I know a lot of Christians that are not good at proclaiming Christians that don't act like that, you know they don't act like they're a Christian.
Speaker 1:Um, I think a number one feature faith and then sometimes use words.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:It's one of my favorite things ever because it's right dude, that's right, a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:It's a great quote. I'm going to steal that. But great quote, and you know it's modeling. Again, this goes back to modeling. Everything we do should be in a modeling type thought process. How can I model this? What am I doing that models this for my children or for other people that may be looking for something that a friend of mine I played with.
Speaker 2:Come up to me one time I was struggling. I sucked, I mean sucked 2018, god, he was a buddy of mine on the A's and came up to me and he goes, he goes. You just struck out three times why are you, why are you so happy like that? And I'm like look, dude, I'm a Christian man, like I believe, like I've been through so much Jesus man, like I don't. Am I happy about the game, my performance? No, I'm going to go work on it, but this isn't going to matter in 20 years, it's not going to matter in a year, like there's one bad game. You know, like we can't let those little things, those little things get us down to a point that we're losing sleep at night and depressed. And baseball isn't our purpose. You know, it's a platform, but it's not our purpose, you know, and our purpose is to help other people and to give and serve as much as we can in whatever way that we can.
Speaker 1:That's what our?
Speaker 2:purpose. I mean my college coach used to say he'd say my greatest fear is getting to heaven and God looking at me and being like Tony. His name was Tony Robichaud. Tony, I gave you 3,000 boys over your coaching career and you didn't tell one of them about me. He said that is my biggest fear is having to answer that question and honestly it's. It's my fear too. Like I don't want to. I don't want to go to heaven and him be disappointed in me. You kidding me that would that would really suck. So I don't want that. Um, but not be like preachy. I'm not a preachy guy. Um, just be open and honest about people If that situation comes up. That's it I think it's tough.
Speaker 1:The tough thing is and you know, with this show there are always important people. If you know people disagree, please come on. You know, like you said earlier too, we're it's a free country. We're free to believe and act as we want. We're respectful, you know, of each other, but I'm always I want this show to be somewhere where people can come and have conversation. I don't believe in cancel culture. I do not care what you believe, obviously, as long as you're not coming on here and saying, hey, we need to go cause a genocide, yeah, yeah, yeah, let me, let's be real.
Speaker 2:We got to be realistic about stuff.
Speaker 1:We don't have time for all that right, but I think this is viable because it's going to resonate with a lot of people. There has been for a long time conservative athletes who would not speak out. I have seen that change. I think a couple of you see guys like Joey Bosa. There's some other athletes who don't see that. The other side has been very vocal but it's starting to change a little bit and I just think that's good in general for culture and for society to have both sides because it creates dialogue. It creates conversation, it's not a monopoly.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, it's also too, if you think about it, like we like, we have to communicate freely. We have to have the ability to do so. Our country was built upon that, you know. Second amendment freedom of speech. Um, you may agree with what I say or disagree with what I say. This is whatever you think. I mean that's fine, um, and that's your right to do so, but it's also my right to call you out on it and um, or our right, whatever it is, and for you to do the same thing to me, right, and that's okay. And I don't get. I'm very hard to offend, you know, very hard, you have to really work hard to offend me, um, so I think that, um, I'm happy it's happening.
Speaker 2:You know, if, if Elon wouldn't have bought X, this would have never been possible, because what would happen is, you know, I'd be posting some of the stuff I posted on Twitter and I'd be banned, I'd be blocked or off or whatever they would have done to me. And so, whenever you start taking away people's platform to speak out in a public space, you know that's extremely dangerous to do, and every single genocide, every single, uh, political movement historically have has always done that first, and you know the, the nazis had the. You know that would go around and and you know they were like Antifa, like modern day Antifa, and to try to suppress people and scare them and intimidate them. You know, I mean, it's, it's, it's always what they do. The first thing number one is try to take away your ability to communicate and have free speech. Thing Number one is try to take away your ability to communicate and have free speech. Um, and so I'm. So. It makes me very happy now that we can at least be, now we can speak out without fear of being canceled or or.
Speaker 2:But think about it for me, think about how long we were there and we were in that situation where, you know, you couldn't even need to be extremely careful about what you said, because people, you know, know they they would blow you up, or it was just so much man, and so it's, you know. And in australia they were jailing people for speaking out against, like the vaccine mandates and all that stuff during covid. I mean literally in prison. That's crazy. I mean, if you think about it right, and so you can't even talk, you say a word against what we're doing, you're in jail, you know, I mean seriously.
Speaker 2:So I think I'm very happy with what's happened, you know, with freedom to have communications and discord. You know freedom to hold other people accountable. Even if someone wants to hold me accountable, that's fine. I feel like I'm humble enough now that if I'm wrong, I'll admit I'm wrong. I have no shame around that, right if I'm wrong, but prove me wrong, like, bring up facts and data, prove me wrong. I'll welcome that, you know. But I'm going to that, but I'm going to come on you, though. I'm going to come back at you, where I'm going to bring the facts and data to you as well, and I think that's a healthy, dynamic, growth-oriented society.
Speaker 2:If you think about a clubhouse and you played in some, being a football player society right. If you think about a clubhouse and you played in some being a football player, if you were afraid to go to your teammate to hold them accountable for a screw up or something he did wrong, that isn't a good environment that's conducive to winning. A good environment that's conducive to winning is one that you have the freedom to go and speak your mind, to be honest, for the betterment of the group or the team, and that is in your opinion. And freedom to debate, right, and so, whether you disagree or you don't, or you agree, right. And so I just said, taking it only on one side, where you can't say this, you can't say that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:You know only what we can say virtue signaling stuff, or whatever. You know that's not, that's not Caduceus winning. It was none of these people. You know, you ever noticed that a lot of these left-wingers, none of them ever did team sports? You know, none of them did team sports. They weren't really competitors. You know, it was more people that are selfish and people that are all about themselves. And so it's the winners in our game, the winners in our country, in our world, are team players, man, team players that understand that they don't know everything, that everyone needs to play a different position, that they're strong at using a sports term there is an issue.
Speaker 1:Let's see if we can't see the Chiefs.
Speaker 1:Nope Talk about the final personalities.
Speaker 1:You have Travis Kelsey, patrick Mahomes and Harrison Bucker and the difference of opinions between those three and how they live their lives and their marriages and girlfriends, or the way they raise their children, and yet still have the ability to not only work well together but win multiple super bowls in a row in a row, have each other's backs in the media, and that's why you know commending um holmes and travis kelsey, when the bunker thing came out, he had that speech and they were like, hey, we may not agree, you know, word for word or whatever the case was, but he's one of the nicest people I've ever been around and he treats everyone in this building with respect and love and and so to see that is just so refreshing for me to see Travis Kelsey, who him and Taylor Swift are on one end, you know Harrison Bunker on the other end, and then I don't know where Holmes is, to be honest, but I think he's eloquently handled the media as well, just supporting everybody's right to kind of believe what they want to believe and to do whatever your own research is, and it's just.
Speaker 1:It's a breath of fresh air and it's no wonder that organization has had a ton of success.
Speaker 2:No, and look, and the you know the family that owns the Chiefs are very conservative family. You know they're a family values Christian family, and not that that makes a difference, but what it. But to me it's more about the family values piece, where it's hey, you know what. We're going to hire these coaches, we're going to let them do their job. We're going to bring in the best family-oriented team players that you can. I'd rather and you probably know this as well I'd rather have a team full of guys that are going to want to work together versus a bunch of egos that are all out there for themselves.
Speaker 2:I mean, the best teams I were on were always teams that might not have had the most talent on the team on the field, but they had great chemistry and great teamwork together and, again, like you're the sum of all pieces, not just one piece, and so, you know, creating an environment that's conducive to winning is all around the personalities that you placed both within the clubhouse and in the front office, humility, all these things. And some of the worst teams I played on were very egotistical. Selfish guys were on the team, you know, worried about themselves. You know you could have got your butt whooped. But if they had a good game they were happy. But if you lost they didn't care. But if they hit well, they were happy. It's so funny you bring this up.
Speaker 1:I was just talking about this with my buddy who's an executive in the NFL. I was saying we make building sports teams far more complicated than they need to be. If you just get people who are relentless, hard workers, love the game and are selfless, you're going to win. You have to meet some minimum talent level. I get that Once you meet that minimum talent level. Just get guys who are relentless in their work ethic, who are selfless and care about winning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it, I mean it's. You know, like I said, I'd rather have a team full of guys with lesser talent that are like that, because I will tell you that you will win more you will actually win more with that.
Speaker 1:And I think people will have a problem with that because you can't tangibly see it. But ask anyone who's been involved in winning culture and they'll tell you it's the realest thing.
Speaker 2:It is. But ask anyone who's been involved in winning culture and they'll tell you it's the realest thing it is. It is dude, you're right, I mean it's. That's.
Speaker 2:The biggest issue I have with the modern day baseball game is all these analytic guys. You know, these analytic guys come in and, by the way, none of them ever played ever, ever, ever. And you know, I don't care if you play in the big leagues, but you, like, you, need to have played in at in professional baseball. In my opinion, some of the best coaches I ever had were guys that were lifelong minor league players, but they played professionally and they get it. There were a couple of teams in my career that were bringing in and again, I'm not a sexist, I have a 14-year-old daughter here, so don't cancel me but one of the teams I was with brought in a, brought in a chick that played softball in college and she was a hitting coordinator. And I'm saying wait a second. So so wait a sec.
Speaker 2:So Johnny prospect he paid $5 million to an assignment bonus is struggling. He's in a slump. He's a high school kid, he doesn't, he's not mature enough to over to overcome this by himself. So he goes to the hitting coordinator and says hey, hitting coordinator lady, whenever you played softball in college and you're in a slump, how did you get out of that slump? Going to go to you know a chiropractor for brain surgery? Okay, I'm going to go to the best brain surgeon in the world that I can find. That's done it before and done it thousands of times, and so that is my biggest. I don't care how much you, how many YouTube videos or videos you watched, until you've done it yourself. Right, you know, if I want to be an astronaut, guess where I'm going to go learn how to be an astronaut from an astronaut and someone that's done it yourself. Right, you know, if I want to be an astronaut, guess where I'm going to go learn how to be an astronaut from An astronaut and someone that's done it a lot. That's who I'm going to hunt down and find, not someone who's watched a bunch of videos on YouTube and went to space camp as a kid. Okay.
Speaker 2:So my biggest issue with the analytics side of baseball now, just like you said, is that people focus too much on the numbers versus the personalities. The numbers are important, yes, okay. However, in my opinion, you could actually take less off the numbers and more on the character side, on the makeup side, and you will actually gain an even greater player versus just just skill level play, just skill numbers, player, um, but also too. Another key factor in that is you could have this like young stud who has unbelievable analytics and then you bring in an older veteran who is on like the decline of his career. But the guy's been playing for 12 years or something. He was really good earlier in his career and that guy becomes a clubhouse dad to the young, the young stallion Right, and he manages that. I mean you have two young daughters.
Speaker 2:Think about this. Think about if you, if you went to a candy store and you said, go at it and you just locked out and left, they would go crazy. They would go crazy. You would need to be in there with them to manage them. It's the same thing in the clubhouse. Whenever you bring in these young kids that are just complete studs. They know how to play on the field and they're super talented and they're really, really good. But if you don't have a clubhouse I call them clubhouse dads If you don't have a clubhouse dad there or a couple of them to manage that guy, you're going to end up with bigger issues because that guy's, that kid's going to get cause he's young, immature, inexperienced he's going to get cocky, he's going to get become selfish most of the time, you know, unless he, you know, if he has a father at home that regulates on them, that's different.
Speaker 2:But when majority, I've seen it a lot where these young kids come up and they're super, super, super, just cocky and all these things talented. Um, so we, we would have to manage these kids and say, hey, man, you need to relax. Bro, like, stay humble, okay, stay humble. I'm telling you this game of home. But you stay humble, stay humble, okay, stay humble. I'm telling you this game of homebys stay humble, stay humble all the time, every day. And so that's one of my biggest issues in analytics. You know they've run a lot of the older players out of the game and so now you're seeing, I don't like all the pimpin' home runs and all the showboat stuff.
Speaker 2:I'm not like a square where we should do this straight old school Like. I'm not like a square where it's we should do this straight old school like. I'm not that guy. I think we should go out, have fun and compete, but disrespecting other players and the other side when they're competing against you. Um, I do have a problem with that. I think that we should, we should be gladiators on the field and fight, but we should respect each other on the field, you know. Um, I think that's extremely important and something that, again, going back to the modeling right, we should model for the younger generation of athletes.
Speaker 1:It's going to be nothing short of controversy. So it's going to get to, I guess, the team. But can't they do it for Cologne man? Yeah, cologne, thanks for having me. If people want to reach out to you if they want to get after you. How can they do it?
Speaker 2:so it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's guests to talk, and we'll have some really cool conversations uh, just like this with colin. So I'm looking forward to doing that. But if you guys can follow me on twitter, um, and stay up to date, I'm going to post everything on there so you guys know where to go and where to find it. So thank you guys for listening and I appreciate you.
Speaker 1:Uh, appreciate you calling for having me on I appreciate you coming on again and uh listeners, uh make sure to tune in next week. Thank you for tuning in this week. Download, subscribe to the podcast. Thank you, guys. Five stars only baby.