Athletic Fortitude Show
Athletes all over the world endure countless mental physical and psychological adversities over the course of their careers. We are here to bring you the solutions to those adversities with some of the top professional athletes, coaches, and sport and performance psychologists around the world!
Athletic Fortitude Show
Why Talent is Never Enough: Former MLB Star Kevin Young On Turning Rejection Into Excellence
Engaging in a thought-provoking conversation on the intersection of athletics and education, we explore how society values talent and the implications of prioritizing sports. Kevin Young, former MLB player and now an analyst, shares personal experiences and insights on overcoming adversity and the importance of nurturing athletic talent.
• Discusses the dilemma between education and sports
• Kevin’s journey from player to broadcast analyst
• Understanding how to foster gifted athletes
• The significance of competition in character development
• Insights on team dynamics and culture
• Mental toughness as a key factor in athletic success
• Reflections on life lessons learned through sports
• Emphasizes the need for adaptability and growth
• Encourages a supportive environment for both academic and athletic pursuits
Welcome back to the show, everybody. On today's episode we have Kevin Young. Kevin is a former MLB baseball player where he played the predominant years of his career with the Pittsburgh Pirates. He's a current Pittsburgh Pirates broadcast analyst for Sportsnet Pittsburgh and this episode is brought to you by All Black Everything Performance Energy Drink, the official energy drink of the Athletic Fortitude Podcast, available in Walmart Meijer and select GNC franchise locations. And on today's episode, kevin Young. For so long we've been told education is more valuable than athletics, but if you have a child extremely gifted in math, you put them in the best situations possible to take advantage of their gifts. Is it any different for a child extremely gifted in sports?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean that is, that is the key, that is what we talk about. I mean, I think that one of the things that you know, I look at it oftentimes growing up and if you're super gifted in the sport, I mean that is what it's all about. It's like you find a way to make sure you value those things, you value education, but you also value your gift. And you know, a lot of times people don't really want to equate with that because they can't relate to it. Basically and I always tease and I always say usually it's those people that literally you know, wear dress socks to gym class. They can't relate to it, but I joke about it, but I'm also serious but it's a gift and a lot of times we have to utilize those gifts for our kids.
Speaker 1:I think it's an in-depth conversation too. At the end of the day, we only have so much time and energy to put into things and if you have that rare, once in a million gift, you should pursue it. And I think where it gets misconstrued is well, let me say this. I agree with it Very rarely do I come on the show and actually give my opinion. I agree with it because I was one of those people where I was a gifted athlete and I was obsessed with athletics. Fortunately enough, I was smart too, well-educated.
Speaker 1:But people get mad at me when I say if you're truly obsessed with athletics, do enough on the academic side, Do enough to check the box. And if you're one of those people who in high school athletics, who's really smart, really interested in athletics too, but you don't have the physical talent, maybe do enough to check the box in athletics and put all your time and energy into academics, that's okay. It's not to say it's all or nothing. It's to say majority of my time and energy is going to go into the thing I'm naturally best at and enjoy the most.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I agree with that.
Speaker 2:I think too, if you look over, you know the different generations and how sports have evolved in both men and women's sports, to be quite honest and you see, obviously money is a big factor of it.
Speaker 2:I mean the amount of money, that's that you know. Salaries in professional sports, from sports from you know, 40 years ago, versus right now, um, you know, ultimately, you know that's an opportunity in itself. I mean, you're talking about generational wealth, right? So, um, so, if you like, again, as you said, if you're gifted enough to be able to, to have an opportunity to play a sport into college, you are already the one of the elite ones to do that. And when you're able to take it to that next level, now you're talking about opportunity to gain generational wealth and all of that as you're raising your children. I mean that's what you want them to do be able to provide for their families and create, continue that legacy, if you will, of allowing them to experience that, and so take advantage of the opportunities and whatever those gifts are. I think that's really the key when you walk away from it all, and people just need to have an open mind when it comes to that at times.
Speaker 1:I think the other piece, too is inherently sports is going to teach you so much more about life in the real world than your academics. I think in my own life I have two degrees. I'm telling you right now I maybe use one-tenth of my degree if that. But everything I've learned from athletics I use every single day, every single day.
Speaker 2:That's true. I mean it is true. I look back and I didn't finish. I went to the University of Southern Mississippi and I ended up getting drafted from the department, you know, before I graduated, but my major was psychology. I think about it all the time, but my interest in psychology how? Just the interest alone, you know, speaks volumes of how it's impacted my life as an adult, impact in my life as a, as an adult.
Speaker 2:The ability to communicate with people, desire to have compassion, understanding, open-mindedness, all these things, you know, these are the things that make you a good human, in my opinion. Right, it's the ability to be able to adapt to the environment in which you're in, and a lot of these things are. These are the things that we get when we play sports. We have an opportunity to display all of that. As you said, the education you know is such a big part of it. But education also comes in the ability to compete, learning how to compete, learning how to be a good teammate. That's also transfers over to how you be. You know how you can be a good owner of a company or worker, or whatever it is that you choose to do after you know that's over. So you know, it's just. You know, sports have just created so many opportunities. You know, I think, a lot of um. You know, if you come to jobs, you want somebody that can be a good teammate. Uh, at the end of the day, and that's what it looks like yeah, the again.
Speaker 1:Going into, like the, the athletic piece, and understanding everything that that it gives you to and beyond, like the educational piece, it gives you the network, the connections, the meeting, different people, people, different cultures. I mean you want to talk about diversity of backgrounds, opinions and religious beliefs. Go into any sports locker room. Right, you're going to have infinitely different people in one place trying to achieve one type of goal, one collective goal. You know, on the learning, because there's a difference between academics and learning, because a degree doesn't necessarily make you qualified. It also doesn't mean that you've actually learned anything. When you pursue things that you care about and are interested in, you're going to learn about them and be able to apply them, and I just hate current academic culture. I'm very much a contrarian in that way where I don't think traditional education is the only solution.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, I agree, I agree a hundred percent with that. Um, I think it may froze up a little bit, but I think that's that is what we talk about where you evolve. You know evolving is so huge. Um, you know, that's a big part of it is are you able to adjust. You know, mike Tomlin, you know, had a quote. He used to always say you know that everyone, you know everyone's ready to for a fight to a certain degree, but they got to be light on their feet. You know, and that's a big part of it, you have to be able to adjust and that's a big part of it. You have to be able to adjust. And so that's one thing that I like to be able to do is be able to adjust and see how things evolve and how you need to evolve and make a transition to whatever to meet that need. And sometimes the people that are quick on their feet and available to do that, those are the ones that are more successful in life. So to your point, I agree 100%.
Speaker 1:As a rookie, you were a part of a team that had gone to three straight NLCSs. From there, the Pittsburgh Pirates organization transitions into a team that basically loses the rest of your career. How difficult was that of a transition for you as a player, seeing that success and then going to, you know, from the top to the bottom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was really tough because, you know, as I came into the Pirates organization, it was a winning, you know tradition for them. Jim Leland had really turned the ball club around and so you know being teammates with Andy Vince like, and Barry Bonds and Jay Bell and those guys that you know, lloyd McClendon and Dave Clark it was a lot of guys, gary Reedus, I can go on and on. Um, they taught that winning culture and so once everything went, you know the way it did in the early nineties, mid nineties, and that long losing period happened. It was one of the things that I wanted desperately to turn around. You know, I took it, you know, personal if you will, and it was a struggle. You know it really was, and so but you always found a way just being inheriting, really, pittsburgh.
Speaker 2:I always say Pittsburgh was a place that helped grow me up as a young man, because I was there when I was 21, 22 years old, and so I inherited the whole concept of Pittsburgh, the city of Pittsburgh, the grit, the blue collar mindset that you know we against the world mindset. It's like, you know, you just have that and so that's why, to this day, I mean, I literally bleed black and gold, you know, because of that and so, but it was tough because every single day it didn't matter who the other opponent was. You always felt like you had a chance. But at the end of the day, you know, the end of the season's come and you see yourself, you know, below 500 team, not making to the playoffs again, not make it to the playoffs again. What you do gravitate to is those, as you brought up earlier, those people in the locker room and that clubhouse next to you. I mean, you really gravitate to holding on tight and being in it together, really talking about being a foxhole mentality. That's what it really looked like.
Speaker 2:And so that 97 team was a perfect example of that. You had, you know, a $9 million payroll and you had guys that just they'd bite your ankles off to try to win a game, and that's what that club really represented. And so all the years that I played, I think that was probably the least talented team that really overachieved the most in that situation. But it teaches you a lot about who's inside, because who are you as an athlete, who are you as a man, more importantly, and what do you display? And I think those are those years that we definitely established that. You know you come into Pittsburgh, you're still going to get. You know you have something to get out of these guys over here, and so we love that opportunity.
Speaker 1:How challenging was it for you to show up every single day, you know, without that winning culture that you were once a part of when you're in that that because I was part of it in college, right, my freshman year, we were really, really good. Uh, lost, you know. You know in the league championship game and then after that it it was three shirt-losing seasons. How much did that weigh on you and how challenging was it to show up every day with that get-after-your-mentality.
Speaker 2:To be quite honest, it wasn't hard at all to show up with that mentality because that is, as a profession, that's your job. That's your job to do, that that's what they pay you to do. But, more importantly, it's about pride. I mean, we look at that P on the baseball cap. You know that stood for pride. You know it's not only stand for pride, it's in Pittsburgh, but it stood for pride. And so we had that mentality already. That was set up in there. So that was something that we definitely, you know, really worked at Every single day was the goal at hand. It didn't matter who we were playing against or what was going on. So it wasn't hard at all to show up with that mentality. We came bringing that same energy every single day.
Speaker 1:What advice would you give to players coaches currently going through it. How is it different for a coach versus a player? You know going through a culture of a team where you're trying to shift it from losing to winning.
Speaker 2:You know going through a culture of a team where you're trying to shift it from losing to winning. Um, I think it's a little tough because you have guys that maybe they're coming in from maybe a different organization and they have a different concept or a different thought process, and so you end up having to to blend that together. You know in that you know seven month period of time, including spring training, so seven and a half months. You have to work that together and understand you know what our goals are and how do we transition with different mindsets and then being careful.
Speaker 2:I think the biggest challenge is when you get to a place where you know you're struggling, like, say, the all-star break, and now all of a sudden, the desire to maybe want to venture off and start thinking about self. You know well, this is a team concept. You have to stay through that. You don't all of a sudden start concerning yourself about you know what you need to do, um, individually for your own. I mean, it's the key always keep the team concept in play, because that's what strengthens us as we kind of go through those tough stretches. But you have people sometimes in sports that you know they have that eye mentality even though they're part of the team and that it usually ventures. That's what you know, just those cracks in the seam. That just makes it for a long season when you have individuals like that. So you really try to fight and resist. You know having that type of culture and environment.
Speaker 1:So you bring the same energy and make sure you, you know fish out the things that look like that and address it as your leadership goes of those situations, when you have a player who wants to go out and do their own thing and not be a part of the team where it creates those cracks, how do you tangibly address those situations?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think a lot of times it is understanding the individuals. We all learn different, we all respond differently, but I think the key thing is being able to identify and, as you said before, you talk about different cultures and different backgrounds you have to be open, open enough to look to improve the situation, make things better, you know, as we talked about before, make them better as you leave it. So, identifying individuals that are working that it may be something as simple as taking a guy out to dinner. You know, on a road trip or you know when everybody's away from their family, on the road is usually a time when you bond the best. So maybe go out to dinner, you know, with a group, two or three guys, maybe six, seven.
Speaker 2:We had eight or nine guys that would go out to dinner. So we created this bonding unit and so you have a majority of guys that are at least like-minded, and that's how you address issues like that. Again, it's always something that you feel like you can put your finger on, but it starts with you identifying where these individuals are and then actually working through the process with it, and you have time. As we said, it's a seven and a half months in this and that's if you don't go to the playoffs so um, which we were very much accustomed to in the mid 90s you talked a little bit about.
Speaker 1:I think you said the 97 team was the team that overcame lack of talent. How do you measure team chemistry right in overcoming that that of talent? How high can you really push above lack of talent?
Speaker 2:Uh, I think it's it. Really. You can maximize being the best version of yourself when it comes to your work. You know, um, your work ethic does matter, uh, when you have.
Speaker 2:In our situation, we had a lot of young guys on that team that were just getting to the big leagues for the first time. So so the one they wanted to stay there. So you understand that for sure, they want to be there. Some of them were married. Some of them have other motivations of having their first child or having a family, and and so, but at the end of the day, they had an opportunity. So, but at the end of the day, they had an opportunity.
Speaker 2:And so every single day, it was some work being involved and they were driven by that same work ethic because they wanted to stay there. Two, they had to understand and make adjustments that are necessary. And three, I mean they had to do all the little things to make all those things come to light. So you became a well-rounded player and you knew how to work every day. And that's the unique thing about baseball is that it's an everyday sport, right, so we play games every day, but in the process of playing those games, we practice prior to so that practice. You get to work and hone in on your skills on a daily basis to be better. So as we stretch that out, as we said, over a six-month season, you have a tremendous opportunity to change. If it's just 1% better each day by the time you get towards the end of the season, I mean you're talking about some great achievements that you might accomplish. So keeping guys focused on the little things and able to do that, I think that's what really made a big difference.
Speaker 1:What do you think kept you guys from getting over the hump in terms of getting to the playoffs?
Speaker 2:I think, all in all, it always comes down to overall talent. I mean you can take some of the games that the teams that play now you look at, say the Dodgers. I mean you see superstar guys, it's very easy to look at and go well, you got to look at the pitching staff. Or look at Mookie Betts or, you know, look at Ohtani. I mean you're talking about some big names and they do big numbers. You know it's the reason why they pay these guys 20, 30, $40 million a year, as I recall, like I said, a $9 million payroll back in 97, we had players in Cleveland that made more than our entire payroll.
Speaker 2:So you know just one player. So that just goes to show that you had to have guys that were those mainstays. You know they were in the lineup every single day. You knew what you were going to get from them. When you have young players, that's the tough part, you know. The same thing can make you laugh and make you cry. I mean, as a young player, they may be excited, they may do a lot of exciting things, but they also make a lot of mistakes too, because they're learning. So so it goes back to the difference. What would have made the difference is having you know three or four guys that are those superstar type talented guys, whether it be on your pitching staff or position players.
Speaker 1:What did you do to maybe strengthen your mental side and how do you strengthen the mental side of baseball players and athletes in general?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think from the mental aspect of sports in general, I think it starts very simply with just the little things. I mean, what are you committed to on a regular basis? You know, it could be something as subtle as just the ability to make up your bed every day, right, I mean it's the consistency of doing that. And then it turns into, you know, as we said before, you know putting things in a perspective and make sure you take care of the things that you've been blessed with, put things back to where they were I mean just that subtle part of it and then always went with a concept of start. I mean, if you go through struggles and you go through things that are you know, say you're working out or whatever, and you get exhausted, just start the next rep. You know those are the things.
Speaker 2:As soon as you start the next rep and you're in it, you know you're not thinking about it, your mind's not wanting. That's a mental toughness type of deal, and so many times people, when they sit back and relax, that's when the thoughts come and all the noise, as we talked about, comes into your mind and all the distractions and there's so many distractions in today's world anyway but if you just start, start the next rep, start the next exercise, start whatever it is, now you find yourself engaging in in something positive, opposed to allowing you know any negative or any distractions and noise to come in. So I think, when it comes to the mentality, I think that's the mental thing of sports is all of us are gifted. I mean you know this as well as anybody. I mean it's like you're all gifted, but there's certain guys that were separated themselves from the other ones.
Speaker 2:And how did they do it? Was it just their skill set? Because that changes once you become a professional. It really does. I mean, now the guys right next to you are just equally as talented, but do they still have that same mentality to elevate their game from the mental aspect? And so I think just the commitment to wanting to be better and taking that next step every single day, to do the little things and once again I'll say it in our game is every single day. So there is no such thing as a little thing, because it affects the outcomes tremendously when you have an opportunity to do it every day because it affects the outcomes tremendously when you have an opportunity to do it every day.
Speaker 1:Have you found something particularly applicable when it comes to changing behaviors? So someone who goes from being the super talented to now hey, everyone's on my talent level, they may not have the work ethic or the discipline or consistency. How do you change their behavior? If you found anything?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I think that to say have I found anything? No, have I witnessed some things? Yes, I've witnessed more. Talented players allow their talent to carry them to a certain level I know you can relate to this where their talent has carried them to a certain level and now, all of a sudden, you know like you said, everybody else now, either you have age that's declining them, or skill set, that everybody else's skill set is coming up, and now all they have left is to rely on. You know, you know either what their skill set was. So now the mentality isn't there and I think they have an opportunity now to learn about themselves. Right?
Speaker 2:Humility is the number one thing for me when it comes to growth. I mean, you have to have it to have growth. So when you're humbled because the sports will humble you and you'll find out you're not as gifted as you needed to be or once was you have an opportunity now to make an adjustment, as we talked about. So are you able now to figure out? Okay, I might not have the same speed, but I can be in the right place, I can anticipate, I can see the game differently, because that is what, when you have a great skill set and a great mindset. That's what makes the elite players elite the ability to do those things. And so if you're just working off your skill set, then you're elite for a reason in a short window of time, but then that declines very rapidly.
Speaker 1:I was having that conversation with one of the athletes I work with and they brought up Johnny Manziel because they're a college athlete. They're like, well, what about Johnny Manziel, who was doing benders two days before playing Alabama? He's the best player in football. I're like, well, what about Johnny Manziel, who was doing benders two days before playing Alabama? He's the best player in football. I was like, hey, absolutely, you have those guys that are just freak shows of natural talent. I was like, but the saying it gets you when it gets you. It gets you Him.
Speaker 1:When he got to the NFL and he was no longer more talented than everyone else, I was like he arguably became one of the worst quarterbacks of all time, one of the biggest busts. I was like, imagine if he did work hard or had the right mindset how good he could have been. And so it gets you when it gets you. And it hurts me when I see talented athletes not have the proper mindset or the proper work ethic and then changing the behavior and getting athletes to mature from a mentality standpoint at a younger age is super difficult yeah, it is difficult, but that's why I I'm a firm believer that it's necessary.
Speaker 2:It's necessary for them to go through that journey to be whatever it is that God's called them to be. It's like if you're supposed to be that guy, then being humbled and going through that experience will allow that to take place. It's a reason why there's only, you know, a handful of professional athletes when it comes to the grand scope of the world. Right, it's a reason why it's just such a limited number. It's because it is really hard.
Speaker 2:It's really hard to have the right mentality, have the right work ethic, stay healthy, you know, create the opportunities from within. I mean, it's hard to break in and do that and carve out a nice career. In the process, People want to make it seem like everybody has a chance to do it, you know. But really, I mean, like you said, all those things have to fall in line and so it's not for everybody, even the ones that are most gifted and we grew up with them. I mean, you had guys, I'm sure, that were more talented than you were, that they didn't play at the next level in college. You know they weren't able to do it for whatever reason you know they just't able to do it, for whatever reason.
Speaker 1:You know they just like you, professional athletes really are. You, at birth, are twice as likely to be a billionaire than an mob player or an nfl player. An nba player you're like four times as more likely, if not more, to be uh, you be a billionaire than an NBA player. And the rarity of what it takes to be a professional athlete I don't care how talented you are, people don't appreciate it and how much goes into it and how difficult it is, in particular mentally, for whatever reason, nobody wants to talk about getting. I guess the conversation is changing now, but nobody really wanted to talk about the mental piece of getting better. And luckily, people like you know, I'll say, like Kobe Bryant, you know, before he passed was a major champion of flipping and the mindset of like hey, this is how you become a conqueror.
Speaker 2:No, that's so true. I mean you hit that right on the head. I mean you mentioned Kobe Bryant. I mean I've learned to appreciate him more and more and I've always liked his mentality. I mean obviously the Mamba mentality if you will, but it's just the way. I mean it's just such an educated person, a well-rounded person, you know, being able to speak multiple languages. It just goes into what we talked about earlier, about one knowing who you are, but always striving for greatness, and so that's a mental approach, that's something that you strive for. But you know, back to your point, it's like there is a it is so difficult to put your mind around it. I mean what's needed for you to be whatever, that is the greatness that you're looking for. But you have an opportunity and you get caught up in your day to day and sometimes you don't really realize what else is going on around you. I'll give you an example.
Speaker 2:When I got drafted from the Pirates for that was in the seventh round and it was 1990.
Speaker 2:And I remember thinking man, you know, was all-american in southern Mississippi and I was, you know I got drafted.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh well, I went to short season, a ball and well, in Ontario and when I got there, they had five other all-americans, three of them for LSU and a couple other guys and I was like whoa, you know?
Speaker 2:I mean, it was like this eye opening experience. It's like and again I use that as an example because here you are, thinking you're, you know, elite in your own mindset, and then the very next step up, you are surrounded by people that are extremely more talented than you were at the collegiate level and that's that's your competition, if you will, from all teams. That's what you're dealing with. So it is, it is extremely unique to appreciate the opportunity to be great, but it's definitely something that, like I say, you don't, you don't get there without separating yourself and that, like I said, you don't get there without separating yourself. And it has to be in that mental aspect and that commitment level to know that the guy that's next to you may be working twice as hard as you are and you may have the opportunity to do some great things as well.
Speaker 1:What was the difference for you, going from being a guy who played sporadically to being an everyday player and finishing top 20 in MVP voting? I think it was your age, 28 season. What was?
Speaker 2:the difference for you. I think I went through a transition we shared. We were talking about humility before. The game will humble you and it'll punch you in the mouth, and then you have a decision to make. Well, my whole adult life was like that.
Speaker 2:In pro sports it was, you know, get to the big leagues at a young age, all right, get punched in the mouth numerous times. And so I had to learn and be able to get back up one more time than you were knocked down, that whole thought process. And so by the time, I think 96 came along, that was a year where I literally experienced the ultimate of being humbled, which was going into spring training and you know hitting, you know, literally. I was like 12 or 25 during spring training and then got released two days before we broke camp, and this was in Pittsburgh. And so I ended up going back to my hometown signing with the Royals that year, and that year I was fortunate enough to make it back to the big leagues.
Speaker 2:But that coaching staff I had there, I think a cumulative that coaching staff had about 110 years of major league service. I mean it was crazy, but that was a time where I grew the most, because I was surrounded by those type of major league players and I learned I was just like a sponge and that really created that next level for me. So when I came back to Pittsburgh in 97, a lot of that took place. It just transformed me into the player that I was able to be offensively.
Speaker 2:And the leadership that came with that, uh, the experience of knowing once again what you went through, uh, because I got to have this saying well, I won't use it for the profanity, it's uh, I mean you have to go through poop to get through the shower. You know, uh, and it's true, it's like I mean you just can't, you know, just arrive. I mean sometimes you got to get dirty and you know nasty and but you got to keep moving and in order to get to the shower, to get it all cleaned up, you have to keep moving. And so that's where I look at that period of time is I had to go through some stuff, but I was able to come out on that back end of it and Pittsburgh got the opportunity to see the version of Kevin Young that I wanted them to see.
Speaker 1:Did your success following that transition? So I mean you go from not playing 100 games to now being a 25-plus homer 100 RBI, 300 batting average guy.
Speaker 2:Did that success change the way you loved the game at all? You know, deep down, at the core of what it was was that, ultimately, I had one thing that I wanted more than anything and we talked about it before it was regaining those early 90s. You know that feeling of bringing Pittsburgh back into baseball significance. You know that feeling of bringing Pittsburgh back into baseball significance. You know. So, even though I was doing that and you know, a couple of years I mean, I played 158 or 159 games back to back because that's what I felt like I needed to do to give us an opportunity to do just that.
Speaker 2:And it wears on you, you know, as anything would. It wears on your body, wears on you mentally as well. A number of surgeries in the midst of all that. But you know, it's the sacrifices that you make and that's how, you know, I always tease myself. I realize how loyal I am. For those reasons. It's because I mean, that's what my job was and that's what I felt like I wanted to do, and so it just made it, you know, a little frustrating to do all that and never get over the hump, but I felt like I wanted to do and so it just made it a little frustrating to do all that and never get over the hump, but I felt like that was what your calling was, that's what you signed your contract for, that's what you were meant to do.
Speaker 2:And I always said that if I was a kid growing up like I was in Kansas City and my mom would take me to a baseball game. I wanted to see George Brett on the field, I wanted to see Frank White on the field and Willie Wilson and you know, all the guys that because those are the guys Right. So I never wanted to be, you know, come to a ballpark and not be in the lineup, because I felt like you know, there's a kid out there that maybe did want to see me play, you know. And so I took that award with a badge of honor and, as for that reason, I always encourage the guys that I usually mentoring or talking to to keep that same mentality. Never lose that.
Speaker 1:How do you keep that mentality? Or maybe what's the inflection point when you have a belief in yourself, or a generated belief, but the production's not there, and how do you maintain that belief until that production gets there to reaffirm your own belief in yourself?
Speaker 2:Well, it goes back to that work ethic that we talked about. I mean, we used to have a saying when you come into the game, you're going to be underpaid. When you leave, you're going to be overpaid. But literally, when you come into the game, obviously it is a struggle. It's adapting to the environment in which you're in. You have veteran players, excuse me, they're adapting to you and you take your lumps, You're going to do that. And then you reach a point where you start now leveling off and becoming, you know, a consistent, everyday player, whatever the sport is. I mean, all of a sudden you have this is basically your prime. Then you have that back end, where the age comes. You start, you know, getting beat up a little bit over time mentally, physically, and you have a decline. And now you have to find ways, as we've talked about before.
Speaker 2:How do you make that adjustment? Are you, are you doing a little the little things to make you more efficient? You know, I like to look at it like this. It's like there's comfort and there's efficiency. Sometimes we gravitate a ton on comfort and we don't realize it. We do things that are so comfortable but they're not efficient, and so that comes into play a lot of times in the specifics and say hitting, you know, if you will, you may gravitate to some things you've done all your life and hitting, but as you get older they're not working as efficient as they were before hitting. But as you get older they're not working as efficient as they were before. But you're so comfortable that you're stubborn to stay with that plan. And it's forth the games screaming at you to make a change and you're not listening. You got your Bose headphones on and you're out of it, right, but it's giving you an opportunity to make an adjustment and I think that's a big part of it. So sometimes comfort doesn't always equal efficiency.
Speaker 1:So why do we not give players the same grace that maybe you got to develop at age 28? Now we're expecting O'Neal Cruz to come in and be a 40-40 guy at age 22. And then, if you're not, that you're labeled as a bust or whatever. Why don't we give guys the same grace?
Speaker 2:It is literally the same thing that's happened in our society. Baseball is just a you know subculture of our entire society. Right, I mean everything, we want everything. Now, I mean you can't it's very hard to even go watch a two-hour movie anymore, you know, because this whole culture now and the way we look at life is just different. It's like we want what we want when we want it. I mean, we can go to anything that we want. It's in our hands, our handheld device. We can get little snippets of it. You know a two minute section of something that we want. We can feed that. Well, it's changed, crossed over into a lot of things we do in everyday life.
Speaker 2:We want these guys to be developed. However, we haven't necessarily gave them the tools and opportunity to develop properly. So I think that's one of the things I look at. You use the perfect example. They're like O'Neal Cruz or any other player that you know. They have to go through those periods of time where they have success and then they fail. Because when they're failing are they, are you making sure that they're learning why they're failing, and so those are the things that people get an opportunity to grow from. You know, when you're able to understand. Okay, I'm failing because of this. Now I can make that adjustment. That's that period that we need to allow people to go through. Of all athletes, you know they're going to reach that point. And so I think the other key point that I'll bring up and this may be sensitive to a lot of people, but I'm going to tell it anyway Nowadays, you know it was a period where you know you can look out on the field and look out on a wall and see you know sponsorships and that now you look at I saw a sponsorship that see you know sponsorships.
Speaker 2:And now you look at I saw a sponsorship that you know you may have bet. You know, uh, mgm, or you know you have betting stuff that's going on in the game now. So now for a fan, the fans become way less patient when their money's on the line, right. So that's another reason, it's an obvious reason why you know all of a sudden it just looks different. And so we this is a part of the game, it's a part of sports. Now we have to be able to understand, but it doesn't have to be a part of your locker room, clubhouse and your decision making. From a leadership standpoint, we still have a responsibility to make sure that we provide the best coaching, best opportunity, best technology to get the most out of that player. And we as an organization whatever organization it is to look at it that way and continue to develop players from the ground up, their mentality to their skill sets, and providing them the opportunities to fail and be okay with that, knowing that that's the process that gets them to be the more consistent player we desire.
Speaker 1:We develop patients as an organization because I see a lot particularly I mean my world's football there are so many professional organizations that I see are poorly owned who make rapid decisions because of public pressure. You know, certain markets obviously dictate some of that perceived pressure pressure. Certain markets obviously dictate some of that perceived pressure but their inability to block out the noise and not let outside noise impact what they're doing internally. Because success does take time. You can't flip a switch and everything just come to the forefront. What have you found to develop patients that can scale across organization?
Speaker 2:have you found to develop patients that can scale across organization? Well, I think it goes back to if you're a professor, it's very, very possible. It's not necessarily what the professor knows Always go is what the student shows, right, so you can have a ton load of knowledge, and it goes into coaching as well. So you have to have a very diverse sense of coaching where, in a sense that you have guys that are extremely knowledgeable but they also can relate and communicate and deliver a message to get the actions to work. So you have to have leadership in place like that. If it's a coaching staff, you have to have a lot of different, diverse thought processes in that, because maybe when it comes to players, they may you know, they may not resonate to a certain type of thought process with one coach, but they can relate to another one, and so what is the ultimate goal is getting the best version out of that player and ultimately, as you continue to do that, you get the best version of that team. So, from a leadership standpoint, I do believe that it's necessary for them to be patient and understanding, but you'd be, you're being patient with the right group of individuals that are leading, the men that you or women that you have, and so it is something that you know. As we said before, it's a lot of money that are invested in these organizations in the sports. It's very easy to get off track, but when you do the things I believe that are right when it comes to providing the right type of leadership and coaches and things of that nature surrounding why these teams, it gives them a chance to be consistent. When you look at football, when you have an offensive coordinator for one year and you have another one, so you have like four different offensive coordinators in a matter of six years, and you wonder why your team is inconsistent. Well, you don't. You know you haven't created an environment for them to be consistent, you know. So, first leadership, make the right decision. You know it goes through.
Speaker 2:When we look at in baseball I see it in how you make a lineup. You know we want these young players to be, you know, to have some success, and it's hard to have success as a young player if you're not in the lineup on a consistent basis. So you're asking, you know, a 24-year-old player sometimes to be a platoon player. He's never done that before, you know, so it's going to be tough for him to you know to prepare himself the same way.
Speaker 2:So what do you need? You have to have you know coaches that are in play to help him learn how to be a platoon player or help him learn how to have a pinch hit at bat. So those are the areas I see, though it's a low hanging fruit, but you get that when you're able to reach guys with experience. And so often we've gotten to that place where we've created this dynamic, where this old school and new school stuff and it's like it doesn't apply, it's just baseball. You know, it's baseball as it evolves and you have to know your history to get the best version of your presence. So I think a lot of times that's lost in all the translation.
Speaker 1:With the younger generation. How is it different with the game, the way the game has evolved, like you just said? How is it different coaching those younger guys from this generation as opposed to when you played?
Speaker 2:you know how the the approach was well, I think one thing is the obvious part is there's there's less experience, you know, uh, around you a lot of times. I mean it's sometimes. I remember coming in, it was you know you were, you were a rookie, you may, it was maybe only three rookies on the team and so you had a lot of guys that had a ton load experience and so they, they helped show you the way, um, and they showed that it was a different environment for learning. Okay, so now you look at your environment for learning in today's game, you're literally being told a number of things, and it can be from an analytic standpoint, it could be, you know, showing you this is what you do, this is what you don't do, doesn't necessarily show you how to get to achieve what you need to, but it gives a lot of different thoughts.
Speaker 2:So you have a lot of noise coming at you and you have to use discernment on which to take in and how to develop off of that, and you're trying to do that all as a professional at the highest level. That's the challenge, because you know that what you've done has gotten you to this level. And now what may be the information that you're getting now is saying that in order for you to be successful at this level, you need to do this, and so now you have to take everything that you've done in that buildup and go. Okay, I now need to switch my thoughts a little bit now, more on this, and then try to be successful at the toughest level of all time. That in itself, just talking about that, can be overwhelming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, information overload?
Speaker 2:Yes, 100%, and so I think you know again, you have to have diversity when it comes to your coaching and your leadership. To one, be aware of that situation. Two, absolutely help an individual grow through that process and, as you mentioned before, have enough patience to allow them to fail and then allow them to make the adjustments necessary on their own, because once they're able to do that, then they know how to troubleshoot themselves for the rest of their career.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've had Ford on here a couple of times but the most recent time we were talking about the analytics side of baseball and how it can be detrimental Looking at the spin rates, the movement, and he was talking about working with a young pitcher who was really upset about a nasty pitch they threw but it wasn't as good from an analytical perspective as another pitch and he was like what are you upset about? He's like there's not a hitter on earth that would look at that pitch and say, yeah, I want to hit that pitch. He was like you gotta learn like the feel side of things. It's not all just the computer, it's knowing that when you throw a good pitch you can feel it right and that even if you throw a not perfect pitch, like people still don't want to hit a certain ball that you throw.
Speaker 2:It's always intriguing when it comes to the pitching part too, to me, because I'm like, even when you throw a pitch, that's not exactly what you wanted you still got, you know, eight other guys around there to help you out, to get the out.
Speaker 2:That's why I'm like you know, you don't have to be perfect. I mean in baseball it's like you know, when it comes to hitting it's a little different. I mean it's it's you know. So we have this. I had the same struggle when working with hitters as well.
Speaker 2:Um, because it's that you know, I know what you want to do. You know I know how you want to. You know, actually get your a swing off, but if the pitcher doesn't give you a pitch that allows you to get an a swing off, now what you know, actually get your A swing off. But if the pitcher doesn't give you a pitch that allows you to get an A swing off, now what you know, are you able to get your B swing off and still, you know, be productive. And so you know that's the whole thought process as we kind of go through growing as a player, understanding you know what are the, what are the wins? You know the win is not you getting that perfect swing at the perfect pitch that you like, because the majority of the game is based around not giving you that. So those are the things that, as players, you learn to appreciate. That's why it requires patience.
Speaker 1:What are your mid at bat adjustments? Because there's a heck of a lot of the difference when it's 00 versus 02. Real quick and so it's. You know, are you the guys like you look like a Bryce Harper, like outlier freak, but he can be 02 and still get his a swing off and hit it 500 feet. But for the majority it's not that simple. So how do you make that mental mid minute bad adjustment while keeping yourself relatively calm and focused?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the two things that I always I'll be a firm believer in and and I've got some Utah, utah, some opposition to this, but I've always believed in, I still watch, and it's still to be true to me is that a major league player will get two good pitches to hit every at bat. Um, now, defining what a good pitch to hit is, that's what the key is. It's. But for me, you know anything. You know above the knees, out over the plate, you know. So, on the outside corner, above the knees, I mean that's a pretty good pitch to hit the major league level as a major league hit. Uh, a lot of times what happens is people think you know a pitch right down the middle, a pretty good pitch to hit the major league level as a major league hitter. A lot of times what happens is people think you know a pitch right down the middle is a good pitch to hit. Well, yeah, duh, I mean, of course it is. I mean, pitchers get paid a lot of money to miss the middle of the plate. So so let's, let's redefine what a good pitch to hit is first and understand Now. The next thing is you know, are you able to make quality contact on those other pitches. And so all that to say, to answer the question, it's understanding one what are you trying to accomplish at the plate? All right, and if that's, look for a pitch above the knees, out over the plate so you can have quality contact, all right, then I believe that you're going to get two of those every at bat.
Speaker 2:You have to believe that too. You just have to be patient enough to allow that to happen. What happens is, I mean, if you get that slider and it starts in the middle and it goes down and away, you chase it. Now you're down 0-1. Now all of a sudden, things start speeding up. Now that next pitch maybe is a sinker down and in and it's either fouled off or swung through, you know your o2 or whatever. So the game kind of speeds up. But if you kick, you stay in focus on that until you get to two strikes. Stay on, focus on allowing those two good pitches to come. I think you have a better chance of being more successful over the long time of a season.
Speaker 2:But you have to believe and have to be ready in that sense and and always, you know, I always say stay on the fastball, one of the biggest things I will share with with young hitters hitters in general is, you know, they always say, well they, they don't throw as many fastballs as they used to.
Speaker 2:I said that's not the point. When they throw the fastball, just make sure you're on time and you deliver a good path at it, because it's again, if you have a pitcher that throws five sliders in the at-bat, I can promise you one of those five sliders, at least one of them, is going to find the middle of the plate, because it's hard to do, it's hard to throw. A slider is not designed to be in the middle of the plate, but if they keep throwing them, it's only a matter of time where they actually hang one, and most of them, the good ones, are going to be balls anyway. So be patient and that's just a hitting, a little philosophy. That kind of works, especially when you're in the minor leagues and coming through a system when the pitching can be a little erratic at times in finding the zone.
Speaker 1:How hard is it to actually identify the pitch?
Speaker 2:It's very hard and it's getting harder because these guys are throwing harder. There's no people are going to talk about. Well, you know, maybe it's the radar gun. No, these guys are throwing harder. I mean, they are literally throwing harder on a consistent basis. You have some guys that you know that can run it up there back when we played, you know, but most of those guys were closers. But these guys now, on a consistent basis, you get guys coming out of the bullpen. Now I mean, with that being said, all the players as hitters. They're grown accustomed to seeing that velocity too. So it's not like you can kind of go oh well, they're throwing hard.
Speaker 2:Well, from a recognition standpoint, it forces you even more to be on time with the fastball so out of hand. You just have to have the ability to stay focused and do training and drills that are consistent with picking up the ball out of hand. So that soft focus in that area where the release point is, do drills that are really consistent with doing that and start being able to pick up, you know, a little quicker. So you can have one more advantage because, that said, when they're sitting at 96, 97 on a regular basis, and that's pretty much where the guys are, and that's either starters and relievers. They're around that same speed. You don't have too much time to pick up that slider. But you know that slider is not going to be at 96, 97. So at least it gives you a little bit more time to make an adjustment.
Speaker 1:One thing I want to talk about before we get out here is you have a pretty unique story. You know dealing with. You know an early tragedy, you know at the age of two. How did you overcome that tragedy and what was it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when I was two years old it was Super Bowl Sunday, I think, and I was at the time I was like running around the house and I remember it was reason. I still get confused why she was running a bath on super bowl sunday. But everybody was watching the game and and I guess she used to run her bath water really, really hot, and so I actually, uh at two, went in and got into the bathtub and it was scalding water. I ended ended up getting severe burns on my legs and a little bit my feet and legs and they ended up rushing me to the hospital and obviously had to go through skin grafts. I had two years old and so it was one of those things where you know, as I look back and I know having children, you know what that must have felt like, you know as a parent, but but it's it's helped me kind of go through that process of of learning how to deal with a lot of different things Like I was.
Speaker 2:I was a really good basketball player. You know, growing up in Kansas that's Kansas basketball is kind of the thing but but I can remember vividly not choosing to play basketball just for the insecurity as a kid, you know, just having the scars and burn marks on your legs and stuff like that, and I just didn't want to deal with that. We're wearing shorts, we're playing basketball, so and that's pretty much how I became a baseball player, you know it was. But it's funny how the decisions in life and the things that happen in life can steer you in a direction. And then you know, as I kind of went through that talk about adversity and going through things, I played baseball since I was six years old, you know. So when I got to high school, you know I was, you know I was wanting to play baseball in high school, obviously. And my freshman year I tried out. I didn't make the team and it was a shock. Sophomore year did the same thing and I got cut again.
Speaker 2:The one thing and this is going to make you laugh, but the one thing that was so intriguing about it was what I really was infatuated with was a letterman's jacket. So after I got cut my sophomore year I I said, well, I'll be the equipment manager for the baseball team because I knew they would get a varsity letter. And so, uh, we made a joke about a couple weeks ago because I just got inducted into my high school uh, hall of fame, like three weeks ago or something, but the guys were. I told the guys this and they just laughed because they didn't even know. But it was. That was the reason why I became equipment marriage, because I just wanted that varsity letter. And so they would hit foul balls and they would. You know any foul ball I'd have to go get it like. So I chased foul balls and it became a joke. It was like I hit a foul ball and they yell my name and I laugh. I laugh about it. I didn't think about it, but I was so proud of getting my varsity letter I was good.
Speaker 2:Next year, junior year, I made the team Senior year. You know same thing. But I remember vividly before in my junior year driving to school at 9 o'clock in the middle of the night with nobody around, parking over by the football field, jumping over the football fence and running stadium stairs in November in the ice cold. As you know, kansas can be cold. We just talked about it before the air we got on.
Speaker 2:But slipping up and down those icy stairs on the football stadium, that's what Kevin Young really was. That's what made me to be on the screen right now is that ability to fight through the adversity. Of that I had to experience it one more time in junior college and then it enabled me to reach these levels. So when I hit these little points of life that you really had to make a decision, you know well, after getting cut your second year in high school you could have just quit, could have changed everything, but that start mentality. You know again that next man up, this is what I need to do, this is the goal, this is what I need to do to achieve it. That was the thought process and I just continued that process until it made me professional and I was super grateful for it.
Speaker 1:What a wonderful place to end it. Kevin, can't thank you enough for coming on. Man, if people want to reach out to you there, you know they want to hit you up. If you have anything going on, please take the next few moments to share few moments to share.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I think the biggest thing is just to know, like, um, you know at ky 29 times, uh, that that's the best way to reach. But I think that the two things I would share is this I mean, um, a lot of times in the climate that we're in right now, I think that people forget. I mean, we were, we were here, we were blessed to be on this earth, to nurture it, to nurture each other, nurture, you know, the gifts that we have, and so many times I think we kind of lost our way in the process of doing that. Make things better than it were when you got there. Right, that's what. That's what the goal is.
Speaker 2:It doesn't take a lot to be a good human. I mean, it just takes a little bit of effort. It's a little bit of effort and stop seeing the differences between us and look to the things that we do have in common. And if you can't find them, seek them out, you know, because this world can be a better place, you know, if we make it. But we have an opportunity to do it. And I'm at the age now where you know I have numbers in my phone right now that are people that are no longer with us, and so that ought to tell you right there. I mean, we're on borrowed time and so just make a difference in the world and sometimes it just starts in your household and within your community, but it's real, I mean you can actually enjoy life differently, and I want us all to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:That's incredible. Life's too short to to not, you know, be a better person and try and make a difference. Um, it's awesome. Thank you so much, man. Uh can't thank you enough again. Um, listeners, thank you for tuning in. Uh tune in next week. Check us out athletic fortitudecom. Uh download the pod. Subscribe to our youtube channel. Five stars only, baby.
Speaker 2:Thanks, kevin you guys have a good one.