Athletic Fortitude Show
Athletes all over the world endure countless mental physical and psychological adversities over the course of their careers. We are here to bring you the solutions to those adversities with some of the top professional athletes, coaches, and sport and performance psychologists around the world!
Athletic Fortitude Show
Running the Identity Marathon: Charlie Ruiz on Storytelling, Growth & Presence
Charlie Ruiz shares his powerful "Identity Marathon" concept, where he mapped a 26.2-mile route through significant locations from his past, creating a transformative journey of self-discovery that connected his physical path with his life story. This conversation explores how our identities are formed, challenged, and reimagined throughout life's journey.
• The Identity Marathon: retracing life's journey through significant locations while reflecting on personal growth
• Finding balance between isolation and connection as complementary forces in personal development
• Storytelling as a tool for self-awareness and connecting authentically with others
• Living in the tension between gratitude for the present and heartache for what's passing
• The Four C's framework: balancing Core, Community, Craft, and Creativity across different life seasons
• Detaching identity from outcomes to perform more freely and authentically
• The power of presence over preference as the greatest gift we can give others
• Learning to appreciate achievements rather than dismissing them due to perfectionism
• Finding purpose beyond championships and external success metrics
Join Charlie's upcoming project "The Sport of Speaking" to learn how to craft and share your story with conviction and confidence at CLRConnection.com
tell me what an identity marathon is right off the jump, you know, for the longest time you have your like, your, your goals. Are these things you want to do? Because people like, oh, you should run a marathon, or you should go hike this mountain, or you should go do the thing, and you're like, yeah, I'll do it one day, uh, and then you just do it. That that was my identity marathon. But it happened where I was not planning for it until I was planning for it. So I'm like running one day. I run through my old apartment complex. I find myself like six, seven miles in and like all of a sudden I hadn't run a marathon yet and then the emotion hit me. I'm like man, coming back to my old roots, kind of hit me. So I went home, finished it about nine miles and then I told my wife I was like, hey, I think I'm going to run a marathon. She was like, okay, what one are you signing up for? I was like I'm making one. She was like I don't understand what that means. I'm going to go map out 26.2 miles Going back to where my first apartment complex I grew up in, where. Going back to where my first apartment complex I grew up in, where my parents are now at the apartment complex. They're at my old high school, my old middle school, my junior college.
Speaker 2:I was like I think I could do 26.2. And I had just interviewed at this other company, this other consulting firm, where they asked me about my life story, which is something I hadn't really talked about. Boom, now I have like a hour interview of me talking through my whole like history and upbringing and my mentors and my parents, my godfather, my brother and my family, and then I have a 26.2 route running through it all. So I put my high school catcher and dear friend of mine at the high school that I played at. I put my little brother at the junior college, so him and his wife and dog were there 13 miles away.
Speaker 2:I stopped in my parents' apartment complex, they threw me some water and then my finish line was actually my home porch, with my daughter sitting here with like a robe, like a robe strip, and that was the end of my marathon. It was quite literally my home, my two girls welcoming, and when it came down to the end of it, my wife was like so what was that? I was like I think that was my identity marathon and I'll probably do it again and it was one of the most transformational, like introspective moment when it comes to finding and learning your story, and it happened organically on December 23rd two years ago.
Speaker 1:What was going through your mind as you're running past all the different phases of your life, physically and emotionally? Who?
Speaker 2:was I here? Oh, that seemingly external, soft, not as tough, passive kid in high school but was good athletically when it came to throwing baseballs. Huh, like, who was he trying to prove? Wrong or right then? Oh, that kid at junior college who maybe physically wasn't there but mentally was there. But then he goes to this junior college and he realized, oh, you were not physically or mentally here, these guys can ball again. Who are you doing this for? Like, who was I? In each one of those places I tried to like think back as to what maybe I was thinking about that.
Speaker 1:How do you define, then, your identity in each stage, and how do you define identity now?
Speaker 2:I think it's at each stage Partly why was I like? Why was I doing? Whatever that task was like? Who was driving it? Was it external, or was it something that that was motivating me internally? Was it something regarding the game that I loved, or was I just doing it because somebody else told me I was good at it? Or because I just grew up doing it Like? Was it in me or was it externally given?
Speaker 2:And, I think, a lot of identity. Even still to this day, we get given an identity, as opposed to going inward to say wait, what about this do I actually enjoy, do I love? What about the craft of being a baseball player, being a football player, of being an executive, being in sales? Like, oh, what about? That is already in me. I love conversation, I love community, I love creativity, I love isolation. Oh, I love teamwork, but yet baseball, to use this as an example, is a game where it is a team concept but wrapped within an individual responsibility. I like that because it's ownership but it's team. So if I grew up in that, there's no wonder why now, as an entrepreneur, I like to have my own kind of hands and get dirty in my own thing, but I know that I benefit when I'm surrounded by a good team. That's something I knew within me already, but it came through introspection and running for two hours through your past.
Speaker 1:Tell me what you think about isolation. I frequently say in high performance in any endeavor, it's always a balance of virtues and I think isolation isn't something. I hear that comes up a lot and I would love to hear what you love about isolation.
Speaker 2:I'm learning is the first answer. I'm learning to love it because I've been so far on the other side of it. But I realize, when I'm up in the air and there's nowhere for me to be but in my own pen to paper with no Wi-Fi, when I am hiking up Mount Shasta in Northern California and I get to the top, you know and I might be with other people, but still most of that hike you're by yourself, in your own thoughts, to traject me into the next phase of my life or chapter, because I took the time to just sit and be still, which is something that my mind really struggles with, or my body does too. So I've realized how, every time I do get isolation or I do find myself in that zone, there's usually something pretty, uh pretty transforming on the other side pretty transforming.
Speaker 1:On the other side, it's funny because some of my favorite memories and some of my worst memories are both in isolation. So maybe not a memory per se, but one of my favorite routines and habits is every Saturday morning going to the gym by myself, no one else in the gym, headphones in, hit a hard workout immediately after keeping my headphones in and just getting to writing and just writing and writing and writing. That to me is like my peace of mind and it just gives me so much energy to be able to go do that uninterrupted, nobody else. But on the flip side, the isolation of when.
Speaker 1:So I've had a number of knee surgeries, which many of my guests are going to tell the story. But when I had my major knee surgery, I had a cartilage implant in my knee about a year ago now, a year and a half ago. The first six weeks I couldn't walk and so my wife still works, and so when she would go to work and the babysitters would come and watch the girls, I just stuck in the basement for eight hours a day by myself, nobody around me, and it's just funny how one thing can be both the best and worst of your life.
Speaker 2:Amen to that, like wow. But to also have that awareness. We talk about high performance, of knowing that. To also be able to, like tell yourself, hey, here's where it's at. I understand the benefit of this and I understand that there's two sides. So to be able to say, hey, this is the worst, yet at the same time, can also be this, can be something on the other side of that, uh, wow, yeah, I feel that.
Speaker 1:I feel that you know it comes down to that storytelling piece, and I know you are an elite storyteller and I would love to hear your perspective on what storytelling can do, both internally and then as a career as well, and how it can help you externally.
Speaker 2:Storytelling, internally, I think, answers a lot of the questions. Internally, I think, answers a lot of the questions by going back. We started with the identity marathon of what are those meaningful moments that are shaping me currently, today and, I think, the art of story, identifying what is the emotion that was behind that. What is this space, the environment, the people, where did that come from? Only you know that, like only you know that. Only you know what you were thinking about, the setting of that eight hours when you're down there with that machine, what was on the television? You only know the intricacy of that. Ai robots can't find that out or tell that story.
Speaker 2:So, yes, there's frameworks, there's structures, there's all these different ways where you go. Google right now, the art of storytelling and it can spin out so many different things, but only you know the intricacies of that moment that can bring it to life and make it emotional, to inspire somebody. But we never take the time to do that until, all of a sudden, we're given a mic or a stage or a podcast. And all of a sudden, we're given a mic or a stage or a podcast. Now, all of a sudden, someone asks you what are some of those life changing moments and you're like I don't even know where to begin. So I think it can help us know who we are today and then also be able to connect and inspire the people on the other end, because we can relate to them, and storytelling is about connection and being able to relate to somebody.
Speaker 1:I think the best storytellers are also those who are the most aware of not only their own situation and experiences, but also life in general from other people.
Speaker 2:And have you found that to be the case as well? Aware of self and then other people like where they're at in their stories.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so like the ability to create and craft that self-awareness, right To understand what I'm thinking and why I'm thinking it and where those come from, but, in that same breath, to be able. The way to learn that too is to learn from others and to hear other stories and see their writing and see their podcasts. And see their writing and see their podcasts and see their speeches and be able to relate and be like wow, I never felt that connected before or that heard before.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think when I think of storytelling, it's like to be seen and to see others, and it's like it's the intersection of both of those. It's the intersection of both of those and, to your point, if I can witness or see or feel a connection to somebody else's story, there's a reason for that Awareness, why, now, I get to ask myself some of those questions and then I get to then go, hopefully, apply through maybe some of those lessons and then see like, oh, where can I incorporate that to my life or where can I think differently? That only happens, though, if we're also attached or detached enough from the ego to say, hey, wait a second, this is a different part of my story that's talking to me. This worked for this person.
Speaker 2:Maybe I go explore that a little bit and maybe I was wrong, but to be aware enough to watch somebody else share and be vulnerable and connect to their story, even if it has nothing to do with mine, you've got to be open for that, and I don't think a lot of people are open because they are stuck in this kind of narrow oh, this is just the way I am, the way I am, no, no, let's open it up and go learn. It goes into the growth mindset right. Can I always be learning? Let's open it up and go learn. It goes into the growth mindset right.
Speaker 1:Can I always be learning? I saw a tweet Justin Sua was the guy who tweeted and he's going to be a future podcast guest. You guys will have to tune in in the future but it was this writing on the curse of confidence and I read it and I was like, wow. I was like I feel like, obviously I'm not an athlete anymore. I was like but I felt this as an athlete and it's the premise I'm going to paraphrase.
Speaker 1:I might butcher it a little bit, but it's when you are talented or exceptional or do really well, you are blessed to have that capability, but also you have that curse of that own internal expectation and that if you do not live up to the championship or the performance every single time, that you are a lesser version of yourself.
Speaker 1:And the reality is you can't just live up to that expectation all the time and you need to have some gratitude that you are that good and I think on a smaller level for me, right, but as a Division I athlete. Right, you expect your best all the time and it's good to be driven and competitive, but when you start to fail and that starts to snowball a little bit, then you begin to think lesser of yourself, instead of just realizing hey, even when I don't play well, I'm still better than just about everybody else. I'm playing against and it's like you know that, that, that blessing and that curse. But that's where it's like coming back to that like awareness piece, where I'm like oh, like that, I can go back then in my own story and be like this is where that happened. This is why that makes sense to me and it's it's powerful.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Uh, you, you know you sparked another conversation that I had with another dear friend speaker, former NFL guy who has an amazing story, caleb Campbell. We talk a lot about this kind of double-edged sword, right he had mentioned like this double-edged sword of an athlete, right, because we truly do have that within us. It's never going to be enough. Yet, at the same time, when you look back and you zoom out, zoom out introspection this comes from someone who didn't tell their story to go. No, you, actually, you are enough and you also know how to tap into that other side when you need to. So it's just being able to kind of understand where that comes and goes. And again, that's where, like the intersection of them now transitioning away from sport. This is a really tough thing for people to do.
Speaker 1:I wrote this piece on gratitude and heartache and being constantly stuck in between. I actually wrote it a lot of it about watching my daughters grow up, but then it was able to apply it to my own life, where it's like I'm in this constant phase of gratitude and heartache the heartache of wanting to be better but grateful for where I am. Just like I'm super grateful for my daughter's age but I have this heartache that they're getting older, and so it's this tug and pull in life and I've come to really appreciate that because I feel like that's what makes you feel alive is like that tug and pull between gratitude, heartache and the different emotions that most people try and hold down. But if you allow yourself to live and experience that full range, then you can become truly alive.
Speaker 2:If you allow yourself. That's the key thing, right, like you just shared, if you can allow yourself. And what a blessing and gift to be able to experience that through your daughter, through, you know, my daughter, right, we share that. I just think of. Even last week I had a rough day at work, right? Customer email goes, you know, tough, tough customer email. Maybe a deal doesn't come through that you were expecting and then you like have to tap in and go. Wait a second.
Speaker 2:It's my second daughter's spring concert and she asked me to wear a bow tie because she's like, dad, you're gonna wear that handsome bow tie. I'm like, yeah, of course, right, so you don't have to if you don't want to. And of course, what do you do? You put the bow tie on and you show up for the concert and then, when you sit back and you zoom out, my wife looks at me. She said you all right, and I was like it hit me like emotionally because here I'm watching my daughter up on stage singing this troll song and these other songs they were working on, and yet she didn't talk to any teachers for two or three months.
Speaker 2:Her up there, dance and just be this whole new person within six months. And now here I am, because I allowed it. I was like, wait a second. All the other stuff doesn't really matter at this point. There's a time where I will, but like right now, this, right here, right now, is the thing I need to be able to attach myself, so to be so grateful at the same time, and then also to like get in the car and have this heartache of like oh, oh, my gosh, this is happening so fast and I love it. But like you get that as a father of girls yourself.
Speaker 1:It's amazing what having little girls can do. I used to never want girls, ever. I only wanted boys, man. And then I had my first daughter and I was my. I immediately changed and I was like every dad in the world needs to have a daughter, because it just changes. I can't even like it's hard to put into words how much it changes your perspective on life. It just in in how applicable it is to every other element of life other than just parenthood.
Speaker 2:When am I fit?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, short answer, bottom line. Yes, I think I started to post. You play creatively on social. Some people leverage it for business. I think I've been really just thinking of it as my creative outlet to almost send little love notes to myself, to my daughters, to my people. And one of the things that I've really started to kind of gravitate towards is on Saturdays or Sundays I kind of put this theme around leadership. Leadership doesn't stop on the weekend because, as I am, and it doesn't stop every day right at home, but, like on the weekend days, you have more hours to be in it, in play, in creative and freedom and to be in this space of like. I learn more on the weekends, like that I can then translate to my work week from those three little girls than I learn anything else anywhere. And it's to your point. Everyone should get a sense for that, whether you have them of your own or your auntie and uncle right and you're in it just learning what these kids are thinking about. It's wow, perspectives, everything.
Speaker 1:Perspectives, patience, right, the ability to think. It's so funny because kids and we all lose this as we get older and some of us, by allowing ourselves, can regain it, just like the creativity that kids have right, and have to pause and think right. And to have to pause and like, think right and be like how did you put those two together? Like where did you come up with that? And then like the patience of it, too, right. Like you know, as amazing as it is being a parent, it's also the hardest thing in the world. But to be able to learn that patience and that empathy and be able to take that skillset, harness it, make it a part of who you are and apply it in other areas too. I believe everything in this world is cyclical and transferable. We just have to open ourselves to it.
Speaker 2:It goes back to where we started right To allow and to be open for it. I think that's part of the game, as you know, or you've been through it and you've experienced it. I mean, we just had thinking through it yesterday. Here I'm on BART, which is like our version of a subway. I'm here in the Bay Area going to a T-ball game. It's San Francisco Giants versus Oakland A's. I have my mother with me and I have my two daughters. We're on the same T-ball team and we're going with the other teams.
Speaker 2:A dear friend of mine Other people take the ferry, other people drive. There's this crazy race going on in San Francisco. Bart is not luxury, it's Bart, you don't do it. But my daughters one of them loves trains. I'm like this may be our time to try Bart and my mom was like let's go, you grew up on this thing, let to like try a bar. And my mom was like let's go, you grew up on this thing, let's do it. So you go and we hop on this bar and my friends will know like I'm the first, like it always gets me, probably because I'm negative.
Speaker 2:I have a negative thought going into it, so of course it always feeds that I get on this bar yesterday and I watch these two girls like have the time of their life. So when it comes to perspective the other word that that you just mentioned this perspective I'm watching them. Just watch outside, go over San Leandro, over Oakland, and look out to the Bay Area and these buildings. Look at the color there, look at the color there. I sat there and thought to myself this perspective of these girls on this BART has shifted my perspective on being able to find even more joy in the things that maybe we negatively have perceived in the past. I'm like, wait a second, maybe I just need a reset, maybe I just need to bring my daughters, for anything that's happened negative, to say what do you guys got on this Girls? What do you think? Because, man, bart, yesterday was the time of their life and I was like, yeah, maybe it ain't that bad.
Speaker 1:This is crazy, the shift of perspective. Yeah, and the other thing you talked about too. That is so true. You had a negative mindset going in, and so you were immediately attracted to the negative things that came with it. And then your daughter's going it's the time of their life and they have the time of their life, their life and they have the time of their life.
Speaker 2:Odd, odd how that works. What a phenomenon. Yeah, again, leadership doesn't stop. I learned from them. What did we learn?
Speaker 1:We learned about perspective through the eyes of a four and six-year-old on Bay Area Rapid Transit. All right, tell me a little bit about your four C's. I want to hear more about your four C's.
Speaker 2:Oh man, four C's. I think this came through like a combination of finding my own lane as an executive coach, as a speaker. I had had a lot of time, through my previous communications, from facilitating like workshops and training, but when it came down to kind of creating my own version of something and a framework to help, I started to realize that the way I see the world to try to show up is by being present in four areas. And that's with my core, so that's like myself, like my mind and body. And then that's the community, that's your people, those are your relationships. And there's the craft. Right, we all have our craft, whether that's a professional athlete, whether that's a sales leader, a product leader our craft. And then we have the creativity, which for me comes into a sense of like play and freedom where there's a hundred percent, no outcome. You're just in this state of like, free play. And then I started to ask myself, through a series of couple exercises of okay? And then I started to ask myself, through a series of a couple exercises of okay, how am I showing up and being present with myself, my mind and my body? What are those metrics? Same, same question for my relationships. And then how am I prioritizing them based on the season in which I'm in?
Speaker 2:Because in sport we know Preseason, offseason, postseason, in-season, but yet here in life, in corporate, in the world that we live in, it's just like this ongoing. It's in-season all the time. Like what do you mean? I'm resting like other than a two-week vacation, like we don't segment it and do it differently For me. I'm like all right, let me create this framework around how I'm performing by being present in these four areas based on the season I'm in. So when it's season of debt, my priorities might shift based on where I'm committing to my personal, my mind, body, my core. I am in a season of, say, hunting, or I'm trying to find deals, or I'm in business mode, if you will, or, let's say, in the NFL or NBA context, it's the postseason. Those are long days. I might be having some red eyes, I might be traveling, I might have 12, 14-hour days, but just like when it's game five, game six, game seven, you are in a whole different mindset.
Speaker 1:Locked in.
Speaker 2:So if I'm locked in my C's and my priorities, my focus, my energy on my craft in that case is going to be dialed in, just like in sales, where, if it's the end of quarter, you might have a two-week stretch where you're just like bam, bam, bam, meeting, meeting, meeting. It's because during that time, that season, my craft is taking my energy, but it's willingly. So. The four C's is how can I be present in all areas? But then when do I need to lock in with each one of them, based on the season I'm in?
Speaker 1:How do you determine what season you're in? Is it a time frame, a field thing? How does it go?
Speaker 2:It's usually two components. One, it's time bound. All right, it's May 20th-ish, I think. Is that May May 19th, right? So, okay, where do I want to lock in? And this is the difference, based on, maybe, what a society, or all of the markers, the field markers that people will give us New Year's holidays, memorial Day, labor Day we have these almost posts.
Speaker 2:No, yours, you might have this random vacation. You're going on June 25th and you might have a couple of deals or a couple of different areas of focus that you want to dictate, where you say you know what, charlie, I want to really lock in here for the next 75 days. Great, what do we call in the season, season of hunting or season of connection? Or maybe you have two months of paternity and maternity leave, a season of grounding. That's two months. You dictate it, though, not Q1, q2, q3, or Christmas. You dictate that that's one part and the other part is again based on whatever, maybe personal mantra or way in which you see something where it helps you show up of, hey, it's hunting season. That means something different to me than it means to you, but you have to dictate what that is. You have to come up with that statement so you can look at that and be inspired and motivated by it.
Speaker 1:How do you hold yourself accountable to being present in those areas? Do you have a reflection protocol or is there something you specifically do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yes, how do I keep myself accountable?
Speaker 1:How do you keep?
Speaker 2:yourself accountable. So this is where we create and myself included the mechanisms, whether it's through journaling, whether it's through another person or an accountability coach or some sort of executive or life coach. For me, I really like that, the journal at the end of day former baseball player, I was a closer. So what is my closing routine for me is my reflection point of keeping myself accountable to it. So at the end of every single night, as a form of gratitude, clr, the CLR, close right. Did I hit my commitments for the day, yes or no? Easy answer Takes 10 seconds yes, no.
Speaker 2:Two. What did I learn? Lesson what did I learn? But then what am I going to apply so I could learn? We learn stuff every day, but do we apply it so I can learn? We learn stuff every day, but do we apply it? So I write down myself a lesson every single night. And then the third, which is my favorite, the R.
Speaker 2:This is recognition. How do I recognize somebody else? I recognize you. I love Colin's questions today and I might write down a note text you and thank you. I might recognize myself to say, hey, you showed up today and you didn't have it. Or am I recognizing a moment, meaning I might see an exchange or something happen that I'm not involved with, but it inspires or it kind of motivates and puts me in a space of gratitude. I'll recognize that If I'm doing that as a point of accountability and reflection, I can then now look at my last three months or the season and go, hey, here are the lessons you learned and here's what you recognized. So if I do find myself going uphill or downhill, I have an idea as to why, or at least I know I can go back to that and say you did the thing that you said you were going to do.
Speaker 1:What was the most meaningful thing that you've learned in doing this process? Meaningful thing that you've learned in doing this process, where have you seen it applied the most? Where you can directionally say this has changed the way that I operate or the way that I feel, or the way that I think.
Speaker 2:How much time do we have? That's probably a my relationships. When I think of that, that mode or that pillar, if you will, my wife, maybe my brother and my parents and then my kids. As a father, I think the biggest thing that I learned through this was when I am extra intentional and create these metrics or a system, accountability around my relationships, in the same way I do with my craft, which is easy, because people tell you your money, your bank account, your performance review tells you if you're doing well. You getting your Jersey taken from you tells you how good you're doing.
Speaker 2:But when it comes to the relationships, admitting to saying all right, hey, my win this year in entrepreneurship year, three years in, has been making breakfast for my babies three or four days a week. It's getting that biweekly date night with my wife. It's the phone call that I have with my mom and dad every single morning when I take my babies to school. Like those to to me have grounded me in times of adversity, of being overwhelmed because I look back and I'm like man. I have all the things that are right in front of me when it comes to my relationships and these are the things that people who commit to these other blocks tend to always go back to go. Man, I wish I was as intentional with my relationships as I was with every other part of my life. I'm like well, that's where I've seen the most direct change. This sounds terrible to say, colin. First time I've said it on a podcast. We talk about, like what's something that you might not talk about. There you go. I'm pretty intentional about everything.
Speaker 2:I am not the best when it comes to holidays. Tell me more. Mother's Day, father's Day, birthdays. We're very experience-driven here, so I might be thoughtful and create this montage or a series of like videos as a family. Why have this idea for my dad of like this plaque or something I want to make him? But he'll be the first to tell you he'll be like why, every time it's my birthday, something comes late. I'm like, well, we'll prioritize a trip Right, or even my wife she's's like we're good, like we'll go on a whim to sonoma or napa and that will be the experience and that's what we do and that's what we commit to. So I'm usually behind the a-ball on that because I don't prioritize it, because every day is mother's day. I come home every day like every day is Mother's Day, so I'm not the best there.
Speaker 1:Hey, I'm actually fully in line with that is I'm always the last minute, last second shopper for that stuff Because, like you said, I try and make people feel appreciated every day. Yes, I want them to know I don't need a day to celebrate you. I want to celebrate, particularly with my wife. I want to celebrate you every day and some days I fall short absolutely and some days I'm selfish with my time, but for the most part, every day I want her to feel special and I do my best. Maybe I don't always execute, but I always do my best to make that feel felt every single day. So I frequently do have gifts late, but I try and make the presence felt every day.
Speaker 2:That's it To me, that's the gift, right? That is, which kind of speaks to the little saying behind me. When someone went through this exercise and it was like a brand, where it's like what is the? You could take your brand statement or your emphasis of what you think leadership is about. What is it? And I'm like, oh, it's all around presence. And these words fumbled out of my mouth and it kind of became truly. What I said is we prefer to be doing so many other things, but if we can choose to be present over our preference, that is the biggest gift that we can give anyone who's sitting or standing or in front of us, and that includes our actual self, because that's what people want. All of a sudden, you're 10 years in Speak to this from some of the product people I coach, even myself. You look 10 years in never asking yourself what is it that I'm actually here for, that I want internally, that inspires, that excites me. And then we find ourselves up a mountain we never even wanted to climb in the first place.
Speaker 1:How do you avoid ending up on that mountain you don't want to climb?
Speaker 2:I think by asking yourself how is this in service of me just as much as it is in service of the external? Now you get to decide where you put that external.
Speaker 1:How do you balance that with doing things that you don't want to do, that are necessary, or doing hard things that'll make you grow? How do you measure that?
Speaker 2:This is a constant battle of mine.
Speaker 2:I was just, I was talking to another mentor of mine and my wife like I need to lock in in certain, certain areas and turn back on my let's call it my athlete operating like my athlete manual of see target, hit target, because we know this well while at the same time time not getting into that let's call it a facade, or this caveat, that like, if you don't hit the target, you are worthless or you are useless, which goes into what we talked about earlier, which goes into the whole discipline thing.
Speaker 2:I get it, I'm one of that, and when I'm at my best, I'm creating space for flow and I'm being disciplined about some of the stuff that maybe, just maybe, does not serve my set outcome or goal, but it serves another part of me, another one of my four C's, but we just tell ourselves as an athlete or as a high performer oh, it just has to be in this craft, it just has to be in this profession, that's where I need to be disciplined about. Yet I give my first talk and I have a guy who's talking about a billion dollar portfolio in Dubai and family offices come up to me and tell me hey, if I would have heard your talk around being methodical and pragmatic and intentional about my presence and my performance as a dad, as opposed to running my portfolio, I'd probably be a better dad and I'd have a better relationship with my kids, which then sends me into a taxi after doing a free speaking gig, like, oh, maybe I'm onto something, but like that's. It's a hard balance because of sport. I blame sport.
Speaker 1:It's you know.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that answers it, it does.
Speaker 1:No, because it's what I find in my own life too, when you try and articulate it like Scottie Scheffler just won the PGA championship again and I was talking to one of my buddies, massive golf fan, and I was, like you know, it's actually really refreshing to see arguably the most likable great of all time, just like when right, and he's like, yeah, but he, he cares more than he lets on's like no crap. Like you know, at the end, like competitive athletes care so much, they want to win, they want to give everything relentlessly. But you look at guys like him and roger federer who I think are kind of like the pillars of this and it's they're able to compete relentlessly and they're able to detach from that outcome. Now, that's not an easy thing to do, but if you want to look for models, those are the two guys to watch the way that they speak right, the way that they handle their interviews, the way that you know they've handled any of like the written articles about them, and just their priorities in life with their families and understanding.
Speaker 1:Hey, I do really care. I'm competitive, I put almost all my time and energy into this endeavor. I want to win, but I'm not useless without this and the reframe as an athlete is. In my opinion, it enables you to compete more freely. If you can let go and find the way to let go, you can allow all the time and energy that have been put into your craft to really come to light, because it's no longer in that threat mode because it doesn't like. Your identity is no longer threatened by failure, correct.
Speaker 2:There was a study years ago. I forgot where it was. I read something about it. It speaks to exactly that. Like Olympic Olympians who are going after gold they probably have done some sort of you know where I'm at and it says like those who have an identity outside of sport or have a quote unquote backup plan seemingly perform better than those who have poured every ounce into that moment Because there's a fear attached to it. Like I'm going to be good, like I got it, regardless of what happens. Now I've prepped, I know what performance looks like, I'm going to show up and be present.
Speaker 2:You hear it all of the time after they're holding the trophy what was it? Oh, we were in the moment, we were in flow, we were focused on right here, right now. Like there's a reason why that word comes up, but again, not to attach the identity to it. I think it's something that I had kind of been raised to think through, whether it's a conversation with my godfather, who was a vietnam vet, or my parents just realized it's like they just poured themselves into being around and that is why I think I realized over the years, like it's not about that title or the actual compensation. I know those people I call them that ain't it. Moments, most of those people will be at President's Club in Hawaii and they'll look at the person who's five years in, 10 years, in. They'll look at the next level of title that they're trying to attract or that they're working towards, and then a moment will hit them and they'll go oh, I don't want no part of that, that ain't it? And then that's when they start to change.
Speaker 1:And it usually comes after success. I was going to say that's the amazing part that you see, particularly with any elite high achiever, whether it's athletics or other endeavors, they hit the mark and then they realize this isn't what I thought it would be. This isn't filling that void that I thought it would fill. Yeah, go ahead, Phil. I don't know how many more examples we need in order for everybody to recognize that whatever your championship is is not going to give you what you think it will, and there's more to life than just a singular goal.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that goes into. I shared a little bit with you via text this notion and not to go into depth here, but this notion of ikigai is that you find something that you love, something that you're great at, that you get paid for and you're passionate about. It's like this Japanese proverb I think it's just used from an executive coaching standpoint because it looks cool, but that's singular, focused. Part of what we just talked about is there may not be that perfect thing you're seeking and then if you're spending your whole life trying to do that, then you're misguided on the whole impetus around it. It's not a destination, it is the whole process of finding, finding that mountain, but like enjoying that trail that takes you there and being in more exploration as opposed to. I have to reach a destination, which is why I understand it, but again, I just think it's more of a. I don't know.
Speaker 1:It looks cool, it sounds cool, but to me I'm not for Ikigai because of that I'm a fan of the process and I think that is very singular as an outcome. It's very nuanced and I think when you say one thing, that doesn't mean you discredit another. And I think that's a big thing. That I try and articulate on this show is me saying my identity is not attached to the outcome does not mean I don't care. That's the example. It's not that I don't care. Believe me, I care If I cared anymore. That's the problem.
Speaker 1:So I have to find a way to separate and that's a lot of athletes and I think people who aren't in that space can't truly understand. Or people who claim to be ultra competitive. It's like, hey, I get it. I understand what it feels like to have your heart and soul ripped out. It's learning how to process that and handle it in a healthy manner is a nuanced discussion and certain things are going to stick with others, but one thing that is invariably true is that or I should say for the most part, as you just articulated, that Olympic study is like the people who have separate identities more often than not are going to perform better than somebody who's solely wrapped in one endeavor.
Speaker 2:Which is why now and I don't I haven't spent too much time into the NIS space. People will ask me and if there's anything, this goes back to the how we started. Right, this part of story, this notion of story, if I know that there is a world for me outside of my sport, also goes into kids. Maybe the trend of burn the boats I might be counter to that, yes, and is that Olympic medalist who's also starting his podcast? Right, if he's starting a podcast? Where's his boat at? Or her boat at? Because if I'm burning it, I understand, but at the same time I have to know that I can get back to shore and that there's something waiting for me there that is also equally, if not even greater, than me being out on this island. But I have the skill sets and the awareness to allow that space to be there. That goes into that athlete. So now you have all these NIL deals. I'm indifferent, but I'm happy about this because it's getting people to think, it's getting athletes to go.
Speaker 2:Who am I outside of this sport and how can I develop those skill sets? And I don't know if organizations are tapping into that. I know agents. How many agents have their background in some sort of executive coaching or communication or real estate? How many of those agents have that? They're going to have to find it? Who are helping these ladies and helping these gentlemen understand that they are more than their sport? And it doesn't have to be in a brand attached to LeBron James to tell you that you're more than an athlete. It's our platforms, it's your platform that can create the space for them to know. But it starts with being open, awareness and knowing their story, being able to tell that through their actions and their voice.
Speaker 1:I love that you bring up the burn the boats mantra. I think the perfect solution to that is you were talking about it earlier the seasons like hey, we operate in seasons, right and may, maybe post-season. Maybe my podcast has taken a little bit of a backseat. If I'm game seven in the NBA finals, I'm probably not podcasting 30 minutes before tip-off, but if I'm in my off-season and I get my training done, do you think athletes just train 24-7? It's not physically possible to just be in the gym 24-7. Even people's favorite athletes in the world they were always in the gym Michael Jordan, tom Brady Ironically enough, they're both really good golfers. So it's like clearly they weren't just studying football film and playing basketball 24-7. They were clearly doing something else. So I just don't know how it got to this stage in society where it's like everyone's an expert on being a professional athlete and telling them they need to be in the gym 24-7, when that's never been the case ever and it's far from the reality of what's needed to actually be elite.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we could probably go on and on on this topic and I couldn't agree more and like for every. I was listening to another again, another talk, but like trying to find the intersection of here's this world of sport, but then here's also this, this reality of the fact that I'm probably you a fan scale, I'm like a 5 out of 10. I love the craft of it, I love the commitment, I love the discipline, I love the rigor, I love all the stuff that sports gives us. And the reality is for every Michael Jordan, kobe Bryant. There's also and I'm biased here there's also your Steph Currys, who, from the get now again, he came from sport, he came from seeing his dad go through it. But, like you, look at how he handles himself and where he shows up as a father, bringing the kids to the podium and like really embracing the side of who he is Like to me, that's it. And he handles himself differently. Yes, you know he's getting his shots up. Yes, you know he's in the gym, but he's showing up in a different way than maybe these lures of the Kobe's and the MJ's. There's a difference. Or the Tom Brady's, but to your point, we just see externally that grit and the 3 am stories.
Speaker 2:What we forget is when Kobe finished and the documentary with Derek Jeter where he's talking about greatness. What are they talking about? Derek Jeter's talking about how him and Kobe would be in the gym watching their daughters talking about being dads. They're not talking about the championships. What else do we need to talk about? Yes, they had them, championships. What else do we need to talk about? Yes, they had them, but what are we paying attention to? It gives me goosebumps. Saying that because I saw that and it just lit me up. I'm like that's what I'm talking about. You just listened to two of the greatest the greatest talk about being with the other greatest talk about what was actually the thing they talked about. Come on.
Speaker 1:It's incredible, it's. You know, I reframe it it's not about becoming a champion, but becoming worthy of someone who can be a champion. And I think there's a distinct difference, because if I'm someone who's worthy of being a champion, it's less about the outcome and more about who I am. Am I a champion in my habits? Am I a champion as a husband, as a father? Am I a champion in my commitment to my craft? Am I a champion in dynamically creating the identity I want? And then, by doing all these things, then, hey, maybe championships will come, or whatever my version now of a championship is, and maybe they won't, but what I do know is that everything that I put into it is worthy of being a champion. And then something outside of my control may or may not have gone my way.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and you can then close your eyes every single night, you go to bed and sleep peacefully. That's it Like, that's it Outcome or not. And this is coming from again when I think about the work. I am a constant series of L's, colin, like I didn't make it to the bigs, I didn't close a big six-figure deal. Yet at the same time, when you ask me and people do get me into the space where they're talking about, like my journey, right, it's just been constant reinvention, but it's also been rooted in can I close my eyes every single night and know that I left it out there on the field, on the court, in the room, as a teammate, as a colleague, as a husband, as a friend? And the answer for me, if I can say yes, then whatever the outcome is, is the outcome.
Speaker 2:It goes back to the greatest coach I ever had, which is or have right, it's my mom, right, or it's conversations with my parents, my godfather, but I think my mom, the whole notion of it is what it is used to drive me crazy, like mom with the cliche stuff. It is what it is used to drive me crazy. Like mom with the cliche stuff. It is what it is. Stop. She'll be like, why think about it now? I'm like man, it's powerful, it is what it is, is another version of her saying I am so, so grounded in right now and my prep and what I've done, that the outcome is going to be what the outcome is going to be. I then get to show up and say, hey, how am I going to handle a react to this based on the current state, and it is what it is. I can't control that. I can just control everything leading up to that moment, because what will be will be. And you insert the cliche Mom's had it. She still does.
Speaker 2:I like to say when someone embraces not just says it, but embraces it is what it is even by the dangerous person. Yeah, she's that, she's that, but in a graceful way.
Speaker 1:Exactly, it's not like dangerous, like a serial killer, no, a dangerous person in terms of hey, they get it, they get life, yeah, and I'd say that I'm learning from that even as we speak. So I'm assuming your best coaching moment from a non-coach was your mother then, or we got someone else.
Speaker 2:Oh man, other than those, right, the mom-isms, I think the other person is this coach with. I'm sorry, he wasn't a coach, he was a player development personnel with the Colorado Rockies. The other person is this coach with I'm sorry, he wasn't a coach, he was a player development personnel with the Colorado Rockies. When I was in this space of introspection after seven years in software sales, contemplating like do I want to go back and go coach? And I was on the phone with him and he's like all right, let me just replay everything back. The art of a coach, right, hearing me, listening, playing back, editing back. He's like all right, let me just replay everything back. The art of a coach, right, hearing me, listening, playing back, editing back. He's like all right. So you and your wife just bought a home in the Bay Area. Your wife is working at Stanford, she's a nurse. You want to start a family. You want to be home for your little brother starting his baseball career.
Speaker 2:You didn't like being on the road per se. You know, 70 months out of the year, you just made X amount of dollars and he just kept going, to which I say yep, yep, yep, yep, and then he responds with okay. So the first trek for your job would be coming here and either being in Arizona for three months or flying to Casper Wyoming. Your wife's probably gonna have to become a traveling nurse, or you're going to stay. She's going to stay home and you won't see her for seven months.
Speaker 2:You probably have to set your home in the Bay Area because the minor league salary of what you just made you won't reach to for like another five to maybe seven, if not 10, years and you're going to be back on the road. You're going to miss all of your brother's games and you're no longer going to be able to maybe be as active to start the family that you set. Are you sure you want to sign this contract to come to Arizona to become a minor league coach? I'll call you back, chris, and to this day I still have to talk to Chris. I haven't seen him in years or talked to him, but when I think of a moment, that's the one that stands out, because all he did was replay everything I said was important for me and then it put me into action elsewhere, based on him creating the space and container for me which is coaching. I came to my own.
Speaker 1:It's incredible.
Speaker 2:Right, and that was when I started to find what was next, knowing it was not software sales, it wasn't the six figure salary selling something that wasn't calling to me. And then, immediately after that, I got a phone call from a dear friend who was a professional golfer, who worked at a communications firm, which started my career, my path into this world of leadership, development, communication, consulting, and this world that I'm in now, which is communication.
Speaker 1:There's something you said real quick that I want to circle back and hit on and it's the.
Speaker 1:You were, you know, just a bunch of L's right and you, looked at your career, never played in the bigs, never got the big deal, and yet someone else who might look at your career and be like he was in the minor leagues, yet someone else who might look at your career, be like he was in the minor leagues he had a one ERA and like 17 saves his rookie ball year.
Speaker 1:And you know, I go through the same process myself and, like I'll tell people, I feel like I failed hard in my athletic career. But I was a division one athlete. I got to play for my childhood dream team. I got to, you know, be in the locker room for four days and it's like, you know, I was an all conference player. Like the number of like achievements somehow in my mind just gets swept under the rug because of my own expectations I had put on myself. Right, going back to that curse of competence. It's like I've failed so hard in my own eyes in so many ways that sometimes it's really hard to be grateful for all the things I did accomplish Exactly.
Speaker 2:And now, because you're open and you allow it and you talk about it, you're using your voice in this platform. You are, then, creating that for other people, right, and it's being able to go through that for yourself and again, getting people around you that are in that environment that can also encourage and like, lift that up. To me, that's the recipe. Now it's not a one and done thing. You know it can be lonely as an entrepreneur, but when you find people that are aligned to your mission, values that also have this overarching purpose to help others live and not dismiss their background, not dismiss their achievements and we're not talking about, you know, the, the old school uncle who's talking about him going four for four in Little League and not talking about him.
Speaker 1:Oh baby, getting on alert over there.
Speaker 2:All right, we're still talking about him. Oh, baby, getting on alert over there. All right, we're still good. Okay, you're good, brother. I mean timely, right? We're not talking about him. We're talking about you, understanding your greatness and knowing your story and those meaningful moments that shaped you, and then talking your talk, maybe a little more than we're comfortable with, getting comfortable with that, and that's what I'm here for.
Speaker 1:It's the full circle I've gone through is when you're younger, talking that talk from an ego standpoint. To then the self-awareness to getting to the point where it's like, hey, I don't feel comfortable giving myself compliments anymore. To then, hey, knowing I need to actually say, hey, I'm actually good at this, like I'm really good at what I do, but not from an ego standpoint, but from a service standpoint, like I'm here to serve you and I can do this at a high level for yourself.
Speaker 2:That, that last part, I can do this at a high level. It's the difference of the arrogance, cockiness thing, Right, but it's like wait, why is this person able to do this? Well, there's probably more than 10,000 hours that went into that. And if they allow themselves to own that narrative and to tell that story and to create the spaces to also then give that, which is what I was not doing, and so you have a friend again, people that's why people are important call you out and say you're being selfish by not helping and serving the world. Once I flipped that switch, I was like oh you mean, if I learn how to tell my story and transfer lessons from sport from my background, I can then help more people. Oh, okay, Let me go and figure out a way to do that. And now it's more of service by me getting right with my story and my skill set, which is why I think that you have to find your space to be able to do that, and it's hard.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite parts about the podcast is not just the conversations with the people I get to meet and you know I'm grateful to have gotten the chance to meet you, rhyme and rap with you here today, but I can't thank you enough for coming on today. My friend, If people want to reach out to you, they want to get out to you. I know you're working on some things. Please take the next, however many minutes time to announce some of the things that you're working on and bringing to light.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for having me. I feel like we could have kept going.
Speaker 1:I could keep going for six hours.
Speaker 2:We'll find our time. When it comes to finding me, I mean on the social side, I mean I'm fairly active on LinkedIn and then my Instagram handle is also probably the most active it's Charles L Ruiz, but when it comes to the business, clrconnectioncom. But the thing that I'm excited most about right now is preparing to launch the sport of speaking, which is essentially my curriculum, and some live events all around helping people not just find their story, identify it, but actually tell it with conviction and with the confidence that their previous life had. But now, and obviously with sports and athletes, they have a plethora of unique stories that they can go tell. But again, it's not to say you need to be a keynote speaker. We're all leaders, we all have a message and we've got to be able to tell that story, and that's what the sport of speaking is going to be about. I'm excited about it, so keep an eye out for it.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I hope all my listeners check it out. I know I'll be checking out and following along for sure. When we do round two maybe we can sit down in person and kick it for two plus hours. We'll see.
Speaker 2:That'd be great. Appreciate you, man. This is special. Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Appreciate you, brother Listeners. Thank you again, guys, for tuning in Tune in next week. Download the pod, subscribe to our YouTube channel. Five stars only, baby. Appreciate you, charlie, all right.