The Playbook with Colin Jonov
Formerly The Athletic Fortitude Show.... Colin Jonov’s Athletic Fortitude Show has rebranded to The Playbook with Colin Jonov, evolving from a sports-centric podcast to a universal guide for mastering life’s challenges. While retaining its foundation in mindset and performance excellence, the show now expands its scope to empower everyone—athletes, entrepreneurs, professionals, and beyond—to live life to its fullest potential
The Playbook with Colin Jonov
Michael Krauza- How to Find Purpose Beyond The Game
Michael Krauza shares his extraordinary journey from being cut twice from his high school baseball team to pitching professionally in the New York Mets organization, highlighting how finding purpose beyond sport ultimately unlocked his greatest athletic performances.
• Growing up smaller than peers, Michael went from being one of the best players at age 12 to getting cut from his high school team multiple times
• Transformation began in college when he gained 40 pounds in three months through intense training and nutrition
• Throwing velocity increased from 80-81 mph to 88-89 mph in just six weeks, leading to Division I scholarship offers
• Struggled with imposter syndrome upon reaching professional baseball despite impressive performance
• Performance peaked when he stopped defining himself solely through baseball and began considering military service
• Faith provided crucial perspective throughout his journey, helping him navigate both success and failure
• Finding meaning and identity beyond performance allowed him to play with freedom from outcome-based pressure
Now your story is my favorite to tell because it's the only real-life example I've ever seen someone go from not playing in high school to making it to a professional level. Yeah, which double A at the Mets was the highest. You made it correct.
Speaker 2:That's correct. I fell a little bit short, but I did get that far.
Speaker 1:How did that happen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but how far back do we want to start here? You tell me you take me there. Yeah, I was born at McGee Women's Hospital. I don't really remember it. I don't remember it, quite frankly, but I think they have a statue of me built there now. No, I mean, baseball was always a love of mine, and even before I get started on that, baseball was always a love of mine and even before I get started on that. It is interesting because you can I guess you can be the arbiter of whether or not I'm telling the truth, because we played together briefly, if you want to even call it that. You obviously were the age group above me, right? Yeah, one class.
Speaker 1:Did you play Franklin like growing up I did, so I played. I played travel ball and then AU ball, predominantly. With was that All-American, so I played with All-American, and then I switched and ended up playing with the Canes.
Speaker 2:Oh nice, so you're, look at that. I played with the Canes. It's like a big deal. I remember that Evo Shield Canes that was crazy. Even All-American was kind of like at the time was like, oh wow, like everyone's you know, and so I wasn't good enough to play for the Canes, that's for sure. But yeah.
Speaker 1:I love your story, though. That's like the perfect example, though, like I did play at the Canes.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Granted, I chose college football but, like I didn't play college baseball, you didn't play Canes, you didn't do all this other stuff that a lot of young kids are probably looking at, like oh, I'm behind the eight ball or I'm not doing whatever, and yet you ended up pitching in the Mets organization, which is like less than 1% of what humans on earth can say. As I play professional baseball, probably what 0.001% of people can say. You're in that type of class and to make that jump is insanity.
Speaker 2:And to make that jump is insanity, yeah, yeah, well, I mean, I think if we're going to get into the story here and I'll try to make this as bearable as I can for your listeners, because I'm sure it's going to bore half of them to death but you know, you'll probably remember that age 12 time when we would go you went to Cooperstown, I'd imagine. So right around when Cooperstown happened. Um, you know and I don't want to there's probably kids I play with on nine, 10, 11, that might argue with this, but I was one of the better, if not the best, player on the team at the time. Um, and then Cooperstown happens. That's 12 years old, and, uh, as boys, once that 12 year old time rolls around, people start, you know, getting hair under their arms and then people don't. And it just happened to be that I was one of the kids that didn't and life really really changed for me quick. So I went from being the kid that was really, really talented you know, the shortstop, the guy that was batting first, maybe the best player on the team to the worst player on the team in a matter of like a year, because I never, I just didn't, I didn't get that shot of testosterone that everyone else did not, to admit that and that's not to make an excuse, cause that's the last thing I want to do but, um, to watch everybody else pass you up in height, um, strength, speed, all of that stuff it was. It was demoralizing, absolutely demoralizing and humbling at the same time, and I don't think, you know, as a 12 and 13-year-old kid I really had the mental, you know, wherewithal, or the foundation in terms of my faith, to really take that and make something good of it, because those moments ended up being, you know what, made me into a professional baseball player and hopefully into a half decent guy as well.
Speaker 2:But at the time, like I said it was, it was really challenging to deal with and I, you know, as you know, I this this whole process, like I think, about professional baseball, and that would have been a dream for a lot of people, but the only thing genuinely that I wanted to do was to play on the same team that you were playing on. That was it. That was it, and so I guess I should get to the point, which is that the way that our high school worked and obviously I'm not educating you on this, but perhaps your listeners eighth grade was a really, really important year in terms of actually seventh grade was Seventh and eighth grade. You try out for the team and you're trying to make what was the freshman team, but it was really full of seventh and eighth graders and then some ninth graders that weren't necessarily the best would get put on that team and I didn't even try out seventh grade because they were told me basically don't even bother, I think. And then eighth grade comes and I got cut. That would have been your freshman year.
Speaker 2:And then freshman year comes around and I get cut again and that's sort of where, like again, at that point I was done playing baseball, as far as I knew, and which again and this is I don't want to take up too much time but there was like a couple points in my career where I was done and then somebody stepped in. You know, usually, like you know, each time was a grown man in my life that said no, it's time to keep doing this. And you know I don't want to get crazy spiritual here, but it's hard for me not to recognize that as something, as some sort of divine interaction in my life where God was saying you need to keep doing this Again to this day. I don't know why that was, but after that second time I got cut. You probably remember the fries and Jim Fry was like, hey, listen, you need to do this. Like I've known you since you were a kid, you were a fantastic athlete. You're terrible now. He didn't say that, didn't have to, but you need to keep doing this. And at the time you probably remember this too Matt Frye was like one of the only kids lifting weights that wasn't on the football team and so and kids used to like kind of pick on Matt Frye and Jim Frye and Alex Fry Fry because of how they lifted and how they approached baseball in terms of you know, matt was really focused on his goal of playing college baseball really high level, and that necessarily didn't necessarily mean he he cared 100% what the outcome of a of a fall baseball game was, um, and if he executed a swing the way he wanted, he was happy. And so I was going into that world where I was like all right, I'll go play with, I'll go train with these guys because they know what they're doing and this is my last chance.
Speaker 2:And so I spent an off season, um working out in his basement with his dad. Um and um. I wish there was like some great ending to that part of the story. There wasn't, I was still horrible because I didn't have testosterone. Ending to that part of the story there wasn't. I was still horrible because I didn't have testosterone. So, um, so I still.
Speaker 2:I didn't really gain any strength, but I'm pretty sure, if not positive, that he wrote an email to coach Sadler and was like listen, this kid's working his tail off. Just put them on the JV team, don't even play them. Yeah, like, just let them put it on. And that was my dream, like the only thing I ever wanted to do was was get those. Uh, wear those majestic pullovers. Um, in the new era franklin regional hat. It was the only thing I wanted. That was it. That was the one apparently was too much to ask for, um, so, but actually it was.
Speaker 2:They ended up taking me on the jv team, um and uh. So I played jV that year and then junior year. It's a horrible sign to play JV. I was on JV again, although what's interesting about that is I forgot to say this that freshman year I 100% deserve to be cut Like I should not have been on the team, so I don't want to say that there's politics or anything like that. I ran this. This might be interesting to people that are baseball fans in your podcast, if there are any. I ran a nine flat 60.
Speaker 1:And I don't know how bad that is.
Speaker 2:Nine flat, it's a nine flat, 60. And what's funny is when I ran it I saw Coach Sadler and Coach Marques on the thing and they like looked at it and they like double taped and showed each other and I was like that's a pretty good runtime. They're looking, they're like wow, this guy really improved. Um, needless to say, that wasn't the the reason why they gave that reaction, wasn't why I had hoped Uh, so, so, yeah, so, uh. That's one thing I can't stand by the way is when people start talking about politics when it comes not like the big P, politics, um, but more so like, oh, I didn't make the team because of politics. It's never the case. It may be the case if you're a fringe guy, but you should take yourself out of the fringe, especially the high school level, be good enough that politics have nothing to do with it. And so I think at the time maybe I thought that stuff was all politics, but certainly not in hindsight. I just wasn't good enough. So anyway, moral of the story was in hindsight, I just wasn't good enough. So anyway, moral of the story was played varsity baseball my senior year and I sort of played varsity my senior year. I should say I really didn't play. I was just on the bench and in fact I remember senior day. I finally got a start, my first varsity start. I got one at bat and I remember Coach Souther was like this game means too much. You got to get out. And so they got me out of there, which was probably smart, and then that was it. So I thought that was the end of my career, again right.
Speaker 2:And then steps in Gus Bondi was the next guy who you played for, right, did you? Yeah, for Franklin and another guy, so Jim Fry. And then Gus Bondi steps in and he was the Legion coach at the time and he was like I don't know if he just had roster spots he had to fill. But he called, uh, he called me. He's like listen, you need to play. I really think you could be a good ball player. Uh, and at that time I'm like he's, he's blowing smoke somewhere. Uh, cause I'm terrible. Um, but maybe he's like the world's greatest scout and the pirates could use him. Um, because, uh, I was like all right, let's do it. And it ended up that sort of baseball really turned for me. There. I realized, man, I can play this game. Um, I was one of the top. Uh, I think they used to do section whatever.
Speaker 2:Like I'm not familiar with legion, oh yeah, because you were evo shield hayes see that this is what we're dealing with here the the lowly poor blue-collar Legion baseball player over here sitting across from the great Evo Shield Canes star, colin Johnup. It's an honor to be in your presence, that's what I'll say. You're so into it. So yeah, so I was a lowly all-section middle infielder and I was like I love this game At the time. I'm a freshman in college and I was just a regular student now. So I went to Xavier regular student done playing baseball just for the summer with my friends playing and I was like man, I'm OK at this and I was really cerebral which I'm sure maybe we'll get into later in this, because that's been a lot of my downfall and benefit has been how much I think about things.
Speaker 2:But I was like OK, so I'm a shortstop, I do catch her on the side and I'm playing club baseball at Xavier University, which is basically for those who don't understand, club was just like a fraternity of baseball players where we would go drink beer allegedly and then show up and play baseball on Saturday mornings. It was horrible. It was fun baseball, um, but just the levels incredibly low. Um, it's a club, it's literally a club. It's like Spanish club, but you're playing baseball instead of speaking Spanish, or whatever happens in those those clubs. Um and so, uh, I started thinking you know how can I do this? So I had Matt Fry. He, like we start making videos of me fielding ground balls, and at the time I was my height now, six foot one, but I was 138 pounds. You were that skinny.
Speaker 1:Yep 138 pounds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, freshman year of college, 138. I remember it. And so that's another big reason why I wasn't a good baseball player in high school. I was so skinny Even when I did finally hit puberty, by the grace of God, and got that armpit hair which, by the way, I shouldn't say this, but I remember this is a side topic, but I remember gym class.
Speaker 2:I remember people would like break it down at gym class whatever, like one, two, three, whatever, and I'd be like man, look at that armpit hair. I'd do anything to have armpit hair. That's a crazy statement. But now I remember someone I think said to me like dude, once you get it you're going to realize it's not that great, and uh, and so I think they were wrong. I love my armpit hair, so I'll always keep it. Um, but uh, but yeah, that's a little bit of a sidebar, but um, but yeah, the one 38 can't compete at any at any game at a high level at that weight and my height now.
Speaker 2:And so I started doing some research and I think like, okay, well, I'm playing club baseball. I'm, I'm talented at this. Still, how can I play division one baseball, and all with the still the chip on my shoulder of the kid that got cut, and so that wasn't. I wasn't like so negatively focused, that's the only thing that I cared about. But, um, but it was certainly a big part of it was how can I make these people realize that I they made a mistake, you know when in reality maybe they didn't. Um, but that's besides the point. Uh, and so I stumbled upon Eric Cressy at Cressy Sports, performance and Driveline and I realized really quickly, um, and then Dr Heenan was his name, uh, performance and driveline. And I realized really quickly and then Dr Heenan was his name 90 mile an hour formula. And I realized pretty quickly that if you run a linear regression, that's of all the baseball players in the big leagues, like their weight against their height, you find out that it's 2.75 pounds of mass per inch on a big leaguer. And so at that time I don't even know what that math is, but 138 divided by 73 inches, six foot one, is nowhere near 2.75. In fact it'd be close for like 205, somewhere there, 195, whatever my math nerds out there are going to check, but I used to know that number off the top of my head.
Speaker 2:But quickly I realized I had to gain weight and so I gained 40 pounds in three months. I had the unlimited meal plan and I was like every decision I made was about that. I'm going to lift weights, I'm going to eat food and I'm going to pull down underweighted baseballs, heavy balls, all that stuff until I throw harder. If I tear my UCL or shoulder in the process, at least I'll be 40 years old and realize I gave this my all. Luckily or blessedly, however you want to look at it, I threw harder before I got hurt and I was sitting like 88, 89 after well, originally it was like 80, 81.
Speaker 2:And in about six weeks after that weight gain, I gained eight miles an hour and from there I sent a video of me throwing off a wooden mound to like six schools and I think six of them came back and said yeah, we'll offer you a spot. So I ended up at St Bonaventure University just because it was Division I and I was like I probably should have taken a Division II offer instead. Looking back at it, but I wanted to play Division I baseball, which I did, and in the Atlantic 10 Conference at St Bonaventure we were bad. I was bad there.
Speaker 1:Wasn't your ERA like 2.67 there, or something?
Speaker 2:No, not at Bonaventure, that was at Mercyhurst later. But yeah, so Bonaventure was a wild ride. I was there for three years. I was still a young puppy, I wasn't a pitcher, I just. But yeah, so Bonaventure was a wild ride. I was there for three years. I was still a young puppy, I wasn't a pitcher. I left that part out.
Speaker 2:I looked at how can I get recruited and what's the easiest way to get recruited as a shortstop, and it was like, well, pitching, all I have to do is have a radar gun. And so I ended up at Bonaventure. I'm really not a pitcher, and so I found out really quickly that it doesn't matter if you throw 88 miles an hour, 90 miles an hour, if it's not near the zone and hitters like yourself, evo Shield, kane hitters they'll hit a rocket if it's on a line, you know. And so I just it was not good there. I was hit a rocket if it's on a line, you know. And so I, I just it was not good there and I was walking a lot of batters, um.
Speaker 2:And then, uh, 2020 happens, and going into right before the pandemic was sort of the year that I was like it's my last year of baseball. I was really, um, it was like the grand old man of of baseball. I was already 23, I think. Uh and uh, I finally was pitching okay, and I had a zero ERA. I remember that At one series I get two outings and I was like man, this is going well, and then COVID hits and that actually ended up being the thing that really. It was obviously bad for a lot of people, but for me it changed my life for the better in terms of, uh, it gave me that last year of eligibility and I ended up at, uh, I was joke, I, uh, I wasn't planning on going anywhere but Bonaventure for one more year, um, but I went to the transfer portal because it was like I'm in the transfer portal, like let's see all these people, uh, fighting over Mike Krause, um, and it's funny, I don't know that I ever told Mercyhurst this but I went in the transfer portal and not a single team talked to me but them, and so this idea of it was going to be like, you know, a bull out to pasture. It was going to go out there and there'd be all these teams coming to me.
Speaker 2:It just didn't happen and Mercyhurst called and I ended up talking to the head coach, who's there now. So he was the assistant coach then Coach Jimmy Latona and he's texting me and stuff and he's like a cool guy. If you talk to him he's got like Jordans and stuff and that's not really my style and so he's like hitting me with like the slang and stuff and I always joke because he's like I'm the reason why your life changed and I'm like listen, I almost didn't come because of how you talked to me and so we choked. No, he's great, but but so, yeah, I ended up. Well, at the time I was just like, all right, well, I'll just talk to these guys and use them as leverage for more money from Bonaventure. And so I went, I visited the campus beautiful and then I finally sit down with the head coach, joe Spano, and I'm like whoa, this is different than I thought.
Speaker 2:And I remember forget something he said to me and I know that you're big into the psychology, but I was a guy that really struggled to throw strikes at Bonaventure. And I went and I sat down with this guy I hadn't met before but I know he's very successful in coach Spano and, um man, he looked at me and he was like listen, I don't care if you walk a batter, just strike out the next two guys. And that was the most like stuck with me, like it just took a weight off my shoulder. Because at Bonaventure it was a little different. Every time I threw a ball I heard the Lord's name taken in vain and I saw someone running down to the bullpen to warm up and that doesn't instill a lot of confidence. And then you start the zone looks smaller and smaller and smaller and you start walking guys. So at that point I was like I'm sold, but I still, I think at the time was dating a girl there at Bonaventure. I had friends there and I was like I'm kind of afraid to leave. So I was like I'm going to call my coach, I'm going to leverage this offer and I think they offered, they paid my full, they paid my full tuition, no-transcript.
Speaker 2:I started looking up, like the Air Force, the Marine Corps. I was moving on with my life, because I'm talking a pitch at this school, that's for sure. And so somehow and that actually was a big part of it was at the time I was really looking into the Marine Corps and, um, I stopped caring about baseball almost entirely. Um, I still train or whatever, but I was more or less focusing on how to prepare myself for that Uh and all of a sudden baseball became easy I don't really know how to describe it because I made peace with the fact that I wasn't going to play because these guys were all better than me, and I made peace with the fact that I was going to do something. Thathurst, I think I was striking out 17 and a half batters per walk and it should have been better than that. They included an intentional walk that Coach Spano made me execute I should say against. I can't remember who that was against, but I think I struck out like 74 guys on walk three or something like that.
Speaker 1:Like 74 guys and walked three or something like that. So it's not a coincidence that when you so, there's always this tension between virtues is what I call it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Being being an athlete. It's the I care so much, I don't care.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:But it's not a coincidence. When you're like, okay, my career is basically over, I need to start preparing myself, particularly something like the armed forces. Everything I need to do needs to go into creating the person who can handle that, and then, all of a sudden, the success comes. On the baseball field, the complexities of who we are as competitors and identity research typically shows that when you have a competitor and they have other avenues of life that is, outside of their entire identity being in their sport, which is a lot of what I work on is they actually perform better.
Speaker 2:It's crazy you say that too, because I'm sure you've heard this where coaches are like don't have a plan B, right? And it's the opposite. Actually, that you're saying, and that I certainly experience, is no, no, you should have a plan B, because that makes plan A. It takes a lot of pressure off of plan.
Speaker 1:A, and that's where it's like the balance between virtues right. And so that's where, like the, where you tow that line is you have to create the space for you to succeed, and so you have to know yourself. And so for some people it may be that burn the boats, no plan B type mentality, but for a majority of people it is yes, this is my plan A, I'm going to do absolutely everything I can to achieve plan A. But then there's also this whole other avenue of life and, honestly, Scotty Scheffler just gave a five-minute spiel better than any other athlete I've ever seen where he's like. Listen, I've worked my whole life to be good at this, to compete for levels he's like.
Speaker 1:But me, winning a tournament doesn't give me nearly the fulfillment that my family does, that being a father does, that being a husband does, and so when you're constructing yourself as a person, as an athlete, that has to be understood.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm going to compete, I'm going to train as hard as I can, I'm going to try and be the best I can, but whether I win or lose does not define me as a person.
Speaker 1:It does not give me the fulfillment or fill my cup the way that these other things in life does. That doesn't mean I care less, and I think that's the important part is like we're labeling words. It's not that I care less, it's just that it is fundamentally not a piece of who I am, and so if I fail at this, it is not an attack on Colin the person or Michael the person. It is just in this moment I failed to execute at the level I wanted, and then I have all this rest of my life that I'm going to fall back on, pour my energy into, and then I'm going to come back and figure out why didn't I execute and how do I do it better the next time. And it allows you to clear that headspace. Sometimes it happens for us accidentally and sometimes we have to do it purposely, but that exact moment is such a pivotal point where it's like I can take this self-created pressure off myself and enable myself to perform at a high level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that you have so eloquently, you know, put into words something that was such a challenge for me, not just as a player but as a coach. Now, and how do you? You can't really train that in player, at least I don't think you can. Well, you can, but then in order to train it, you have to name it, and then when you name it, you kind of lose the effect of saying live for something bigger than this game, because then in your head you're realizing, okay, well, I'm going to say I'm doing that, but really I'm only doing that so that I am still, you know, Mr Baseball or Mr Football. And so that was something that I sort of I think about really a lot, not, you know, as a player and and as a coach, but it was like it takes you back to. This quote may or may not have any sort of bearing here in this conversation, but I think it was Martin Luther King that said a man doesn't really know how to live until he has something to die for. And you know you talking about a family, like I'm sure you would die for your family, and I think there's this epidemic of just young men today, all this depression or whatever it's, because they don't really have anything to live for or die for for that matter. There's no purpose anymore. And I think that was certainly me. I was placing baseball where I should have put something much higher than baseball, and so baseball was my thing, that you know, die for baseball, it's a game. Whereas you look at something like with the rich tradition and history of the United States Marine Corps and this great country, and I was realizing, well, this is something that people are dying for every single day and I'm complaining about, or I'm nervous to throw a ball, ball four on a mound, it was just like the perspective of that was very rich. And I just realized, like the it is, it was unimportant what I was doing compared to what other people are going through on a daily basis, and that, for me, was freeing. And, um, I didn't care, I got to throw this ball right down the middle now, and if someone wants to put out the ballpark, they can try. Um, of course, they didn't do that very often, but and if I walk someone, I walk someone. And then, granted, as soon as I had that thought, had finally had that thought process, well then I started playing at a really, really high level. And so how do you train? That that's for people like you to figure out and for people like me to just be grateful that I got lucky, I guess, and stumbled upon such a thing. But yeah, that's certainly what changed things for me at Mercyhurst was just that. So I kind of let go. I just kind of finally let go, and whatever happens here happens here because I'm going somewhere else. And then, needless to say, something else happened. So God had a different plan and ended up I got the chance to play professionally in Indie Ball.
Speaker 2:First in Texas, I played for a team down there that was a travel team. They didn't have a home field or whatever. I played for four outings. I'm like I'm done. This is horrible. We were traveling in vans with your stuff on your lap for 16-hour rides, no space. It was not what I thought I signed up for and I remember calling home and being like I'm flying home, this is done, like I need to buy your own plane ticket. So I was like mom and dad, please, I'm begging you. And so you know that was it. I was done and I flew out of Sioux Falls, south Dakota, home and I remember looking around here and thinking, man, I will never be back to Sioux Falls, south Dakota, beautiful town, but I don't think I'll ever be in this airport again. Fly home.
Speaker 2:As soon as I get home I get a phone call from my old coach, brantley Freeman in Texas and he's like I got a team in that league that needs an arm right now. I was like, oh yeah, where are they playing? He said Sioux Falls, south Dakota. I was talking to my parents at the time. It was the Cleburne Railroaders are their name. I was like these are the New York Yankees of this league, this Indy ball league, and I was like, all right, I'll go do this again, but I don't think it's going to go well.
Speaker 2:And I went to Sioux Falls with them and the rest was sort of history there, where I kind of stuck on and and any ball, it's really ruthless. It's not like affiliated baseball, like you have to win right away and so if you're not performing you're gone. Um and uh, and not that I performed a really high level right away, but I was got letting guys get themselves out is the way I'd put it. So I was just kind of like flipping in the sweepers and letting them fly out or do whatever, and and um, it was enough for me to survive that road trip and then make it to a homestand and then, once the homestand happened, I just started. I don't know I got comfortable. It was Texas, I guess I was born to be in Texas, but I ended up pitching really, really well that year and then the following year. To make again a long story bearable, I was one of the best young pitchers in the league and I'll never forget like guys talk about their draft day and I didn't get that and I'm blessed, so blessed, that I got what I did, and because the ownership at the time of the Indy Ball League I was in was very close with me and they knew that sort of what happened was on the day that I did get signed in 2022 by the Mets.
Speaker 2:They the way it works for the people. This might be interesting to you. I don't know if this would be, but obviously the draft you understand how the draft works. Indie ball is a lot different, so you're basically the they'll have pro scouts watching you play.
Speaker 2:And um, the night before I had a save and um, I got a phone call from Joe Spano and he's like hey, actually I got a missed call at 9am and he doesn't really call me at 9 am. What are we doing? And and I call him back, he doesn't pick up, so we're playing phone tag and then I get in the group, me for the team, like hey, team meeting at like 3 pm or something, which I was like. I got to go to the field early but in my head I was like that's kind of weird, I missed this team meeting.
Speaker 2:Finally, on that phone with coach Spano and he's like hey, I got this Met scout that's calling me, asking me weird things, like not just about like your numbers, but like who you are as a man, like who you are in the clubhouse. And so now I'm like putting one and two together and I'm thinking like there's no way, you know, because at the time I know the diamondbacks had reached out like a week before and then they signed like six other guys and not me, so I figured it was over, which was fine, I was at peace with it, um. But then we walk in and there's a team meeting and, um, they uh, and my video's online if you want to watch it, and that's why I'm so grateful that they, the front office, set this meeting up and took a video.
Speaker 2:They, they have the meeting again. I'm thinking like I'm gonna act like humble, but like I know what's coming um and uh. And then they have a meeting it's about meals on wheels and I was like, oh, so I guess I'm staying here, which I was fine with. I was fine with I loved texas, I loved my host family, I love my teammates um and uh. And then he kind of wraps that up or whatever, and and they take signups for the meals on wheel thing. And then they, and then he's like oh and uh, I told you, you know, we're in the playoff hunt right now. And um, I'm not sure if that's exact. I think we were pretty bad at the time actually, so maybe he wasn't saying that but he's like I'll make whatever moves necessary to make this team better.
Speaker 2:And then he was like, at some points I've got to make this team worse. And today's one of those days. And, michael Krause, your contract's been purchased by the New York Mets, and never forget that. And I don't I'm not of the persuasion that I think men should cry very often, but I did cry because I was still that kid that you knew in high school that got cut twice and then never really played varsity baseball and I never thought I'd hear those words. So to think that the I remember sitting in my manager's clubhouse and I was like they purchased my contract for how much money? Like they spent that money on me and but and I think the really interesting thing was after that and how it pertains to your particular podcast is things went really sideways for me there. I wouldn't say really sideways.
Speaker 2:I pitched well the first year, but I remember my grandma, or at least my dad, would tell me that she would say be careful what you pray for, because sometimes you get it. And it's exactly what happened. I was a little fish in a really, really big pond and I ran into a couple of things imposter syndrome I don't know if you've heard of that and then spotlight fallacy or whatever. Those two things basically rolled my mind for the next two years of baseball with the Mets organization. Nothing against them. Like I said, I pitched well, especially double A I pitched especially well, but everywhere else I just I felt like I didn't belong, like I didn't deserve to be there and when by all accounts, I certainly the way I was pitching any ball, if I just was that same guy with the Mets and I threw two miles an hour harder, I would have had a real shot at going somewhere. But I got there and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm with guys that are, I guess, putting their legs, their pants, on two legs at a time or what, but I shouldn't be here. And that's probably my biggest regret in terms of my playing days was letting that sort of consume me.
Speaker 2:And I think it got to the point too where I had some conversation with some of the guys that went through a lot of the same stuff as athletes, where nobody wants to admit it because it's kind of like the yips in the sense, where, like, I feel like if I say it now it is real and if I can just kind of battle these things on my own, then, um, then maybe it won't be true, um, but by all accounts, I'd say, like you know not to get into psychology but like, probably could have been diagnosed clinically with depression, while I should have been the happiest of my life because I would go to the field and I would just be like I don't even want to throw it. Don't put me in this game. Like just let me go home and get in bed, and then I'd wake up in the morning, be like don't want to get out of bed, don't want to go to the field, when this was my dream that I had, since I was a like a young boy and, um, and it was all kind of crumbling down on me to the point where I think I got released in 2023 by the Mets on July 4th, Um, which I love America, so that one stung a little bit, um, but uh, uh, I felt nothing but relief. When they released me. I was like I am done with this game now, like this is this. Is it because I had to get out of there? It was just too much for me, and I think it was a moment where I realized I wasn't mentally prepared for that.
Speaker 2:I mean, I go out there and I pitch poorly, and then it's on Twitter and it's like who is this scrub?
Speaker 2:You know, like Michael Krause, he's horrible, like, release him. You hear things in the stands, coming from the stands, even at a home field, that are like you pitch poorly, you walk in the clubhouse, people don't even look at you, you know, um. So baseball was one where, like, the highs were, um, I have never done drugs in my life. I'll take that to my grave, but I would imagine those highs were probably something like whatever the drugs would create that if it's heroin or something, I hope not again. Never done drugs in my life Um, but the lows were low, and I don't know if you probably had some of those lows too with football. But I was ready to be done with all that stuff by the end of it. So we can talk more about that stuff, certainly, but it was the mental side of it was really really challenging for me, with the Mets in particular, just because of how big of that organization was and the pressure that was associated with it.
Speaker 1:The lows in particular, I can relate really, really well to. You know, my listeners are very familiar with my story, where I started, where I finished, how it ended. And for me in college you know, particularly at Bucknell like I was the guy I came in, started as a true freshman there was not a game at Bucknell that I played freely. Every single game I felt that, looking at the clock, when's the game going to end? I don't want to have to go back out there for another defensive stand, I want the game to end, I just want it to end. And then, particularly if I was playing well, I was like, if the game ends right now, I'm getting a 90 grade and my coaches are going to be happy. And when you look back, talk about that regret. I'm not big on regret because this has taught me so much, but the thing I would coach myself to is don't let it steal your joy. And then there's ways that I now do that and communicate, particularly through the lens of identity. And then there's ways that I now do that and communicate particularly through the lens of identity.
Speaker 1:And one of the biggest misnomers with identity because who we are so complex is. You talked a lot about it up to this point is serving something greater than yourself can do for your identity and for yourself is to serve something with a greater purpose. A lot of people that's faith, some people it's military, whatever it is, some people just serving the team. To serve something bigger than yourself is one of the greatest individual things you can do for yourself. And you also talked about the piece which I think is really important.
Speaker 1:Well, if I train my identity, well, I'm really just doing that to be a good baseball player, and it's the truth of fully buying into. Okay, I need to engineer myself and I need to be a part of something bigger than myself, and whatever else happens as an athlete, that happens. But I need to execute on who I am as a person and how I build that person and the serving is so important. There is few things in life, if anything, that gives you the fulfillment that serving something bigger than yourself does, whether it's your family, whether it's God and your faith or whether it's your country, there's few things. People ask well, why do people enlist back, you know, in the military or the Marines or the Navy SEALs or whatever, and part of it is genetic wiring, but the other part is to serve. Something at that magnitude can't be replicated. There's nothing that can give you that type of fulfillment in life to knowing, hey, I'm willing to lay down my life for this.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's the part that athletes miss when they do focus in sports, psychology or identity, in particular, where it's like I have to focus so much on me. Well, hey, sometimes, in majority of the time, focusing on something bigger than you is exactly what you need and you just didn't know it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's something interesting about the way you talk about your past. You balance, when you narrate this, between the confidence and the extreme humility, the hey, I sucked or I shouldn't have been here. And to the same point it's like hey, I wanted to prove everybody wrong, I am good enough. When you're go, when you were going through it, in those moments when you got cut several times, when you're dealing with the imposter syndrome, where did you balance that humility and that irrational confidence? Because to go from I'm going to get cut multiple times, play one game senior year, to being willing to go through the ups and downs to get your shot at professional baseball Where's that balance of humility and irrational confidence going on in those moments?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's a great question. I always felt like when things were going well, it's obviously easy to be confident and the guys that you know and you get to meet. An affiliated baseball is really cool because you get to meet big leaguers a lot, because they're rehabbing or whatever, like Jacob deGrom he was the guy sitting next to me in my locker in a low A start against the Daytona Tortugas, the low A affiliate of the Reds. Most of the time, a lot of the time, they're either absurdly confident, out of their mind, or at least they give that appearance who knows what's going on in their head or a lot of times they're not very cerebral I'll put it nicely Like they just they don't even realize that they're pitching in front of 40,000 people or whatever. But yeah, in those moments when things are going well, I think like on the field.
Speaker 2:I listened to a Jocko podcast the other day and this sort of answers, that where someone was asking him how do I deal with the anxiety of sport and he said go, just go. And what does that mean? He's like well, when he was preparing for missions or whatever, everyone's anxious and a lot more is on the line for these guys than for me, or you going out to play sports, and he's like I always like, and lots more is on the line for these guys than for me or you going out to play sports, and he's like. I always remembered that as soon as we got out of the Humvee or whatever, my heart rate went down and I was, I was working, you know. The anxiety went away, and that's something that was very true for me was once, the once I stepped on the batter, stepped in the box. It was a completely different mindset for me, and so much so that I think I probably went a little too far a few times with confidence, where I actually started a couple benches clearing brawls by saying things I shouldn't have and then hiding behind my catcher, which was usually bigger than me, but but yeah, so there was that. So for me, I think, the confidence was like on the field, and then, as soon as I got off the field unless it was a good outing, then I would take that confidence home until the next day and it's like humility again. So which, again, that's sort of fake confidence is the way I'd put it.
Speaker 2:So how do you balance it? I'm not sure. I certainly was. At least I felt pretty humble because baseball is going to as soon as you're confident it's got you. Confident it's got you the baseball is going to find a way to bring you back down. I don't know if football is the same way, but I would imagine to a degree that it is.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I don't really know a great answer to that, other than it's sort of both, and I don't really know how to best manage that. But the one thing I do know is I knew from the very beginning that I wasn't the best guy in the clubhouse in terms of stuff Like I wasn't throwing a hundred miles an hour. I was 90, 93. I had a really good slider, but there's plenty of guys that had skills a skillset like stuff, plus profile pitching wise that were a lot better than me. But I felt like the difference was truly, at least in Cleburne, what got me signed by the Mets was that I just I was having fun and I didn't care about that stuff as much. So I think that confidence came from realizing that I was. I was going somewhere else with my life than than baseball, and then, when I started holding on to baseball, confidence disappeared because that was the only thing that I had now was baseball itself. So sort of just to. To get back to what we talked about exactly before, I'd say, so it's funny too that you mentioned the thing is so crazy to hear to talk to other athletes, because, again, we never talk about this stuff. Um, because it's not masculine, I suppose. Um, but to hear you say like, like is the exact same thing that went through my head. So, like, you're trying the game I'm playing well, let's get this on the road. Like, are you playing defense? Yeah, yeah, so you're like, often, stay out there, I'll run out the clock. Do not send me back out there where I could do something that's going to take away from from my thing.
Speaker 2:I was always a one, maybe two inning reliever guy and one of my last outings with the mets I actually got the chance to pitch in high a against um, uh, the uh aberdeen ironbirds, and Jackson Holiday was on the team. So actually I ended up throwing to him in the third inning. But after the second inning the pitching coordinator's in town and he's in the dugout watching me throw, and so I'm thinking, okay, well, if I pitch well, I might get a promotion. I certainly, I hopefully just won't even get released and I go two clean innings and that's a lot for me, you know, with really a one-pitch guy and when you come off the field you're looking for a handshake from the manager because that means you're done. Right, like I'm done, I get high note or whatever. Pitching coordinator watched and I, like stuck my hand out to shake the manager's hand and he looked away.
Speaker 2:I was like I am going back out there for the ninth inning, so there for the ninth inning. So I pitched the seventh, the eighth and the ninth inning. I knew jackson holiday wasn't, uh, he wasn't playing that game. So I was like, and we were up one run, I'm like he's definitely gonna pinch it. That's what ended up happening. Um and uh, I don't know if I should say this, but I didn't get out of the inning, so I didn't get out that last thing. I was gasped and um, uh, I ended up taking me out. I technically got jackson holiday out, so he hit a ground ball back to me and then I threw it into center field. So it was an error on me, so his batting average went down and it would have been a double play to end the game too. So at least I'll be able to tell my kids I sort of did something cool, I suppose, with respect to that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so the whole time, though, after that second inning, I was like, oh, why are you sending me back out here? You know, the whole time, though, after that second inning, I was like, oh, why are you sending me back out here? You know? So, same thing with you at Bucknell. Like gosh, I wish they would have just taken me out there. I'm glad they didn't, because I got to pitch to Jackson Holiday, which is a great story, but in the time I was like you got to be kidding me. Like I know this isn't going to go well, because I've never done this before at this level. Three innings, hopefully. That's the long-winded answer there.
Speaker 1:How would you coach yourself around that imposter syndrome that you felt, if you could go back and coach your single, a double, a Mets organization self, how would you coach yourself through that imposter syndrome?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question, but I honestly, looking back, if I'm an honest person and I hope you're honest with yourself, to a degree I try to be at least I don't think I could. I don't think I could, I don't think I could coach myself out of it, because I recognize now, as I did in the moment, that I'm not a big leaguer. The talent that's at that level is so. It's not so beyond what I was at at my best, but it was beyond enough where I wasn't going to make it. So I got as far as I. I got further than I ever should have with baseball and I probably could have prolonged my time or even snuck into AAA maybe, if I just enjoyed that time instead of pressing.
Speaker 1:And that's the piece. How do you get yourself to at least enjoy it? How do you coach yourself to that?
Speaker 2:How do you? I don't know, I don't know. I really I think there's all sorts of vices people could use to try to do that. But yeah, I don't know, and it's something that it's a problem for a lot of people. It's a million dollar question, because if you could find this, the answer to that, consistently day in and day, not just consistently for everyone, but consistently day in, day out for yourself, probably make a lot of money doing that. You know, because people will buy that snake oil. You know I'll have a hundred percent, whatever costs I'd pay to get right up here. I don't know that you ever can, because I think there's so many highs and lows with baseball that you're going to go through an imposter syndrome. I don't know if Max Scherzer goes through imposter syndrome.
Speaker 2:I had the opportunity to train next to him a couple of times and then he was with the Mets when I was. That guy's insane, like he's just, and again he appears that way. People may have looked at me and thought the same thing. I doubt it and there's a whole bunch of different things going on in my head. So I do wonder those guys if it's the same way with them, if they have to kind of battle, the same things we're discussing. But yeah, I don't know how I would coach myself because, if I'm being true, I'd realize I wasn't good enough to get past the level I was at, so just like I wasn't good enough to play on that Frank regional team that you were good enough to play on. So I just need a little more time, I guess. But hopefully that answers, I guess, that question a little bit.
Speaker 1:I think when I look at you and I think of if I was me in your mindset, right, the number of different things that I don't know if you give yourself credit for. So confidence, in a nutshell obviously it's more complex and deeper than this, but confidence pretty much comes from proof of concept, like I'm good enough because of X comes from from people who are qualified is lack of routine reflection and understanding and constantly bringing it back to your attention. Because when you're put in moments similar to Navy SEALs is when you get into those moments of life and death. Your brain latches on to your preparation. Your brain is going to go to any shred of evidence that you're capable. So when you're in go, go, go mode and you're subconscious fully, it goes back to what you've been trained to do. So the more you can reflect and bring that to the conscious mind, the more you can go into events and you're always going to experience some type of anxious stress energy. It's just learning to channel that energy to where it needs to go. And so for you, like if I were to coach you every time you get into that imposter syndrome I don't belong here, I'm not good enough. Well, one, even if that's true. Go back to that irrational confidence kid that went from being cut in high school to chasing a dream, to pitching professional baseball, and reflect on each one of those stages. Hey, I went from a kid who literally couldn't get on the field in high school baseball in Western PA, where baseball is not prominent to the point where. Look where I'm at today.
Speaker 1:In each stage of your career, reflect what you did and your willingness to commit to training with the Fries, your willingness to go play Legion ball with Gus Bondi, your willingness to take club ball. And look, hey, I'm going to film this and I'm going to. I'm just going to pick up pitching. Yeah, like, never pitched in my life. I was a shortstop. Now, all of a sudden, hey, I want to play division one baseball. Well, I'm, you know, 18 years old, never pitched. I'm just going to learn to pitch. Like those are so rare in itself and to understand the magnitude of what those were. You have to appreciate that as an athlete and I'm very much of the mindset of like, hey, arrogance, right, arrogance is thinking I'm a better individual than you, regardless of sport, as I'm above you, but to have that overarching confidence that I can do this, like maybe I can't do it yet, but I'm going to figure it out. Maybe I'm not good enough yet, but I'm going to figure it out.
Speaker 2:And having that irrational confidence that I touched you and that deep rooted belief in yourself that I can do this, because I've done X, y and Z throughout the case, throughout the process, yeah, I think that's and I don't want to make it seem like I never had that, I think with the Mets I probably never had that with the Mets, but my first few years of any ball which is professional baseball, I definitely did. And I actually was thinking about this the other night. I didn't know why. I was good, but I knew that every time I threw my slider they weren't going to hit it. And there's a certain self-fulfilling oh my gosh, I'm okay. I know there's like a little dyslexic moment there or something but a self-fulfilling prophecy to sport. Whereas like, if I throw this pitch and I know you're not going to hit it, chances are you're not going to hit this pitch and I don't care what the metrics are on it. Whereas you know, when you play affiliated professional baseball, they care about the horizontal, the vertical break, you know, the late break, the speed, the spin rate, all this stuff, the horizontal approach angle, all these things that make a good pitch and to me what makes a good pitch is sure all those things matter. But like, if I know this guy's not going to hit this pitch and I throw it with complete conviction and will, he's probably not going to hit it, that's certainly where I was at with my first few years of pro ball. I was so confident I am the best reliever in this league.
Speaker 2:In fact, when I got signed by the Mets for my first outing, I would write on my wrist in Sharpie my stats from my first couple years of independent professional baseball. I remember going out there because I was nervous beyond nerves. We were playing the Yankees high affiliate in Hudson Valley in a way game. I finally got in and I was looking down at my wrist at these stats. I was more afraid than anything else to walk people. I was like I'm going to make these guys put in play.
Speaker 2:So I had written down all of my strike out to walk ratio numbers on my wrist and so I'd look at my wrist and be like, all right, you don't walk anyone. All you do is throw strikes to strike people out. So believe in that and that outing went really really well. So yeah, so I think I definitely did have that and then lost it and so if I had it then I should have been able to go back and have it. So I don't know. You talk through these things and you're probably right, like if I just not to give you credit of course, but I would love to unpack you as an athlete getting to work with you in the weeds.
Speaker 1:I could do that for hours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I mean, that's. My biggest issue is, I think I'm a very cerebral athlete in the sense that I just thought about everything I would say I was similar.
Speaker 1:It's a blessing and a curse to be intelligent yeah, and the guys that I met that were big leaguers were like potheads that didn't spectrum. You have this, really dumb people yeah and then you have it's like the midweek midwit meme and then you have this arching curve where it's like all these other people's, all these other people, these faces on the meme, and then you get back to the person with, like the hood up, who's super intelligent, who's at the exact same place that the idiot is in.
Speaker 2:It's exactly the horseshoe theory?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so it's like the athlete lens of that is, I either need to be so supremely smart and in tune with who I am in the game to where everything just comes like this, or I need to be incredibly dumb and just not think about anything and go out and play yeah, and anyone stuck in between those two levers is going to experience what we experienced to a higher degree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, and it's so challenging to get to either one of those spectrum because most of us fall in the midwit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think there's benefits to those both ends of the spectrum. I think there's benefits and drawbacks at each individual, high or low to both of them. Whereas, like, like the guy that's stupid, um, but can just like a Neanderthal gamer and I'm sure you met plenty of them in football, I met plenty of them in baseball and I envied them a lot, like a lot, it's like dude, like how do you not even keep pitching Like big leaders, like you're pitching, you're in city field and if you, if something goes, goes wrong, like think about baseball for a second. Like you're pitching and tenths, hundreds, thousands of a second is the difference between a ball going to a catcher and in the dugout, essentially. And you start thinking about stuff like that which I did was like oh man, if I just like one like the blink of an eye is gonna put a ball five feet in front of me versus where it needs to go, and like how do you not think about those things?
Speaker 2:And yet this guy's like like go hit my weed bed or something, whatever he's doing, to just get to the point where he's like I don't care, but like I'm just throwing this ball as hard as I can past a guy that that's trying to take food off my table, and and so the benefit to them on those those low ends is well, I mean, I think I don't, I don't know who has in the low end. Maybe they're not thinking so much about the fact that, okay, well, if I keep doing this, we can get released, whereas the cerebral guys, like I think in that pit that's like they're just going to keep digging themselves a hole, or maybe they can otherwise, maybe they're cerebral and they can think their way out of it.
Speaker 2:So but on the high end, you know, the cerebral guy might be able to like document the fact that, okay, what's going right here? Where's the? Maybe the dumb guy's just going to stay on that high end because he's not thinking about it anyway, but he can't. He can't put it into context for future issues when he's, when he's in the the hole. So I don't know, there's benefits and drawbacks to both, but I certainly, if I could go back, I'd probably rather just be the guy that's a caveman. That would have been much better for me.
Speaker 1:Did you ever ask yourself in those moments when you're thinking about everything that could go wrong, did you ever just ask yourself the question well, what if everything goes right?
Speaker 2:No, Yep, no, yeah, I definitely didn't. It was always what could go wrong here. Um, I mean, I think, like I certainly thought like that'd be kind of cool, I could go pitch in the big leagues or something like that. Maybe colin will come wear his evo shield cane shirt and be an honor for him to be a guest of mine at pnc park or something. But, um, but yeah, not really, it was more so the negatives, I mean, I think when I was playing any ball, I was like man, I get like that phone call, that phone call, that phone call is going to be amazing.
Speaker 2:And then, although this is what's crazy about this is I just heard this the other day where it was like I was listening to a podcast with Joe Rogan and Jocko and they were talking about some one of their friends that was comedian that took his own life. This guy was on top of the world, right, like he was rich, great family, extremely successful, but he had worked his tail off to get there, right, and I'm listening, I was mowing the grass on a zero turn, so much fun. Um, dad mode, you got it. You understand? Uh, I'm not a father, but you are. Um, so I'm, I'm doing, I'm thinking about it and I'm realizing. Wait, this is exactly kind of what my issue was, which was they're talking about how he Jocko was saying you know, you can't really get in the mind of someone that goes through something like that, because from the outside it looks like everything's going great and yet he chooses that life isn't for him anymore, for whatever reason. And the question is why? And Jocko wanted to say well, it's because this guy worked his tail off to get to the top of the mountain for his entire life and it's this dream that he had propelled him every single day to go to it, to get there. And he got there. Now what? And now you don't have anything really to live for. You've got to create something new, you know, cause climbing a mountain is different than you know, sustaining life on top of that mountain.
Speaker 2:And I think, for me, I love the climb more than anything else. I loved training even more than I loved playing. And then I got there, and I guess you could say I didn't quite make it wherever. I was perfectly proud and grateful for for making it to the men's organization, but it was like, well, what's next, you know? And so perhaps that was part of the reason why I was so, I guess, unhappy there and, and I don't know, it just made me think about that particular topic is is once you accomplish something as an athlete, how do you then what you know? And so that's what makes it so impressive to me the guys that play well for as long as they do, like Clayton Kershaw, max Scherzer I don't know any of your football friends but the guys that can play for 20 years at the top of their game, it doesn't even make sense to me. I have no clue how they do it. They must be out of their minds.
Speaker 1:So there's an obsession element, right that these guys are obsessed. Now, obviously I can't speak to the comedian who took his life, and there is an element in those. We can always speculate, but you can't get inside the mind of someone who takes their own life, no matter how well versed when someone's in a particular state, you almost can't unpack that once they've gotten so far. The now what question is the number one thing I've seen elite level athletes ask, even the ones that play forever well-documented ones Kevin Durant, aaron Rodgers have both talked about how their entire life they chased that pillar moment.
Speaker 1:And Aaron Rodgers in particular, to quote him on his Netflix series An Enigma, when he hit that, he thought that that would fill the void in his life, would fill the void in his life, and he quickly found out that it doesn't. And so the fear when you're at that is you have to essentially go from zero to one again, and anything to be built has to go from zero to one. And so when you achieve everything you've set out to and you look around and it's like, well, I did this, this was my purpose, this was my everything. Now I have to start all over again, and then all of that anxiety rushes to you again that the thing you had worked for your entire life did not fill your cup. And now I have to go back to zero to try and fill up my cup again. And for some people that overwhelms and takes over.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's where I dive so deep with like identity and serving something bigger than yourself, because what you do cannot be your purpose. It can inspire you, it can drive you, it can, you know, bring you to act, it can be your obsession, but it cannot be how you define yourself. Absolutely, and it cannot be the only thing that you serve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think I haven't. You know, really we haven't gotten into faith very much, but I wouldn't be being honest if I wasn't, you know, mentioning at least, if not talking at length, about the role that faith played for me. And I remember distinctively saying to some guys, even when I was with the Mets, was like some of these guys that were atheists or agnostic, like I don't know how you get through it on a day-to-day basis without something like that. So I know in Catholicism we talk about you know you say you're not what you do or whatever right you live for in Catholicism, vocation, and that vocation is either a priest, devoted single life, nun, something like that, or a father, and then everything you do in life serves that purpose. And I think we talk again for hours. When I played my best baseball was when my faith was the strongest. But we could do four or five hours about faith alone in baseball, which might be interesting someday to get into because it was very, very complicated for me. But I think when I was playing at a really, really high level was when my faith was at a very, very high level, but it was never for me like this.
Speaker 2:One thing I can't stand and I'm going to check to see if your wrist you're wearing one of these. What is the? This is a quiz for you. Do you know what I'm about to ask right now? No, so what is the scripture that everyone wears? Every athlete wears on their wrist Probably Philippians 4.13.
Speaker 1:Probably.
Speaker 2:Philippians 4.13. Yeah, drives me nuts, drives me nuts. What is it? What does it say? I can do all things through he who strengthens me. Yeah, I can do all things through Christ. You're King James version. I got the Catholic version. I got the real deal.
Speaker 1:I was close, I'm.
Speaker 2:Catholic too. You got the red words. But that drives me nuts, that thing. It drives me so nuts. It's the most superficial quote and people don't even understand it. Do people even look at it and say where was Paul when he wrote this? Do you know where Paul was when he wrote this? He was in prison, about to be killed, and God didn't deliver him a victory per se that we would see as athletes, as any sort of measurable victory which would at least be an honorable death, like an easier death or, hopefully more so, freedom. God didn't give him that, you know. He was killed.
Speaker 2:And so all of these athletes that are wearing these Philippians 413s I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me it drives me nuts because they think it means God is going to deliver me a victory on this field, right? And they don't even take it one step. Talk about cerebral versus caveman. They don't take it the one step further, which is like what happens if I'm wearing this little get out of jail free card and the pitcher is too so, like if I'm in the box. Who gets the victory? Who gets to do all things through Christ, you know who strengthens us in that moment, right? There's no logic to it, and so I just think that particular thing drives me absolutely insane, because there's so many lessons that can be learned about Paul's letters to the Philippians, and specifically 4.13. Like. What does he mean by that? He's like I can do all things through Christ. Well, paul, you couldn't get up and get out of your jail cell. So what do you mean? You can do all things through Christ.
Speaker 2:There's something much deeper there, and I think for me, faith was such on a not a superficial. Well, there was moments that were superficial with prayer life, where it was like I am praying specifically novenas, specifically to Our Lady of Good Success, which is a very powerful novena asking to be signed to play affiliated baseball, and that ended up happening right, like, so I do give some credit to that, but it's a very, very superficial form of prayer is asking for things. It doesn't mean that it's a horrible place to start, but in the moment, yeah, it was very that was superficial. But I think I got to the point where I was at a very deep level of understanding of faith and to give, give myself some or to take some credit away. Things were going really, really well for me and it's easy to stand on your faith when things are going well, but when the winds start blowing, you find out real quick what your foundation is. I suppose, and I think just entirely when it comes to athletes that are I don't know, did you do FCA?
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So Fellowship of Christian Athletes was fascinating to me because it was a lot of the 413 stuff and not a lot of like real deep. There are some conversations you'll have like, what do you do when you struggle? Well, here's the thing read Job. And we don't have enough people that read Job, and that's probably the most important. It's not even in the New Testament, but to me, I think it's my opinion that it's one of the most important books that not many people read. Where you've got this guy? Do you know Job?
Speaker 1:I do.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I don't need to teach. No, no, no, please do. Well, so obviously the story has. You've got this incredibly successful guy, beautiful, family, wealthy and kind, like just a good person in the Old Testament, and Satan and God are having a conversation whatever that looks like, it's over dinner, I don't know but basically God is boasting to Satan like look at Job, this is my guy, you know. And Satan hits him with the one-liner like yeah, yeah, look at Job. No wonder, he's your guy, everything's going right for him. Give me two weeks with this guy. And what's going to happen? And God says sure, he'll stand on his faith or whatever, and I won't give everything away.
Speaker 2:But things don't go particularly well for Job when Satan steps in and yet, as he loses his family, he loses his fortune, he loses his health, and in that moment he says I don't know, actually, if he gets to the point where he's about to renounce his faith, but he doesn't. And I think that's he eventually just said you are my God and whatever you give me is what you give me my God giveth. And he taketh away, or whatever the King James Version. And in that moment he took away and he ended up. The moral of the story was God doubles everything that he had before just because he proved his faith in that moment. And that Job thing I talk about all the time with any of my friends that are Christians, any of my athletes that I train that are also Christians that to me is the most important book for an athlete. It's because if Christianity like you said something, not necessarily Christianity something has to be bigger than sport, and for Christians hopefully it's your faith first, then you better understand what your faith means. What does it mean? What does success on the field look like? Or in life? And I think people don't understand that suffering in and of itself is sometimes the end. It's what you're supposed to do and meaning like the ends or the means, or it is the end and the means through which you actually learn something as a Christian and as a man.
Speaker 2:And again, to make another long story bearable, it takes me back to the last outing, the last baseball I ever threw in my life, which was in Winnipeg. So I got released by the Mets and I played any ball again, and then I got kind of bounced around on pitching professionally in Winnipeg, Canada home game and I had lost. I'd lost the will to play. I don't know why I was even playing I'm probably ego had a lot to do with it Like I just wanted to maintain this, like I'm a professional athlete thing or something. And so when God was telling me you should have been done last year, and clearly telling me you should have been done last year, and I'm like I'm going to hold onto this.
Speaker 2:And one thing I made sure of throughout my career was I always made a sign of the. I tried to make a sign of the cross and and, like, spiritually, make the sign of the cross on the mound, where everyone in the field saw that, so they knew and that's not to say that I'm better than anyone else is the act opposite. I'm sure I'm the biggest sinner in this room right now me, you and this camera. I'm probably the worst and I'm sure when I was on the field I was probably the worst person there, but I felt like God had put it on my heart, like at least do that. And I tried to obviously do other things. I did podcasts for faith, we did all sorts of scriptural studies and talks with my teammates, but that was one thing I could could in what otherwise would be a pretty secular sport, I guess, or setting. I felt like I could kind of push the needle a little bit, so I got I'm just going to do this. So they know, like, this is what I believe in. And the thing that I couldn't stand, though, obviously remember big poppy would hit home runs and he'd come in and do the. He wasn't doing that after strikeouts.
Speaker 2:I made sure, no matter how the outing was, to still make the sign of the cross and genuinely prayerfully say thank you, god for the opportunity to be here and to fail, for that last. I think I had like three innings. I gave up like six runs or something, and they all came in one inning. I gave up like six runs in one inning, lost the strike zone, gave up a bunch of singles, so much. So I think we were up 10 runs and I was throwing the ninth inning and this team started coming back on me. So I've got the Canadian faithful, which they're supposed to be nice, right, these people were not nice. I, which they're supposed to be nice, right, these people were not nice. I can't say on camera the things that they were saying to me my home crowd like just some of the cruelest but most clever insults. You could imagine that they're saying to me and I throw that last pitch.
Speaker 2:I think I walked a guy my last batter, fitting end to that story right, and I knew I was done and I was ready to go home because I had to get back in the States. But I said I was speaking out loud and I always spoke out loud, prayerfully on the mound and I said thank you God, like, what a ride. Like I was thinking about when Paul said, right before he died, like I've run the race. Like, and I ran the race to the best of my God-given ability, and then some, and it was coming to an end right there and to me there was no better way to do it than to walk a batter, because that was the thing that drove me nuts the most, it was the thing that I tried to control against the most, and for God to say you're going to go out this way. To me it was fitting and so it was embarrassing to a lot of people, I guess probably my family.
Speaker 2:The manager came out who was very close with and um, handed him the ball and I walked off the mound, sellout crowd and all jeering me as I'm coming off the field saying horrible things and made my sign of the cross and I said thank you, god for this. Like to just be able to. These people are paying to to to watch me fail. And so like, like what a blessing. And and then all the, the, the at that point you know 20 years of baseball and the four years of pro ball up into that point, like thank you for this and um, and so just having that foundation and understanding God doesn't just give Christian athletes whatever they want. And um, that's why I hate Philippians four. I don't hate Philippians four, 13. I hate how it's applied in sport. So again, that was another long-winded answer there.
Speaker 1:You can't fake your level of commitment, though, to your faith. Just like you can't fake your level of commitment to your sport or to whatever it is, and everything that's understood at a deeper level is going to alleviate your attachment to outcomes in those sectors. So, like your commitment to your faith right, and understanding is right, going to be more important to you in that and understanding what philippians 4 13 actually means, as opposed to wearing it on your wrist and hoping it helps you strike someone out or hit a home run. Yeah, and it's the same thing with who you are. It's the same thing with your commitment to your sport. When you're so deeply in love and involved and committed to your craft as an athlete, you're able to let go, as you articulated earlier, of outcomes. You're able to be like okay, I'm basically just going to get back to this.
Speaker 1:And so when you're a Christian athlete, I think one thing that I've related particularly well to in that story was and I got away from it later in my career, but in high school in between every single play, good or bad, made the sign of the cross.
Speaker 1:Every single play in between made the sign of the cross. One of my family members who aren't Catholic, noticed it the one time and that was like I was happy that like, okay, good, someone's noticing, because I don't want this to just be an artificial thing. I want it to be something that carries meaning. I lost that when I got to college, not because I lost my faith, but because my focus transcended away from living out my faith through the way I played to all the millions of other things that were flying through my head as a competitive athlete that overrode my joy and love for my faith and that's another thing I would go back and coach myself to is keep the main thing, the main thing in your life and pour yourself into your faith and also just stay committed to football and enhance your physical capabilities that God had gave you.
Speaker 2:And you can't you just you can't fake it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I and I, you can't. I think it becomes especially true, Like, even like in your prayer life, you know, like in your heart, you know if this is fake or if it's not.
Speaker 1:You can't lie to yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you certainly can't lie to God, he's going to know one way or another. But I remember, even like early on, when things were going well, my prayer was God, if I can just keep doing this, like, let me be a vessel to spread faith through my baseball, and and that was genuine, it really was. And it was like you know, we're obviously people talk about like God. The strongest prayer is God, your will be done, and whatever you want of me I will go and do. Like here I am, um, and I think that was a little below where I was at. I was saying here's what I would like to do with my life. I want to play professional baseball for an affiliated baseball team. Is there any way we can align our wills together? And that was like to me.
Speaker 2:It was pretty deep prayer, but it wasn't quite obviously your will be done, but it was better than just like give me this and and I think like honestly, looking back at it, just to kind of be hard on myself, I think you know, when the Mets signed me, it was kind of like okay, well, I made it so like let me go find the most beautiful wife in the world, and you're like right now, and and let me see how many Instagram followers maybe I can get, and and that's not, I think God's probably like, well, sort of had a deal here and you forgot about it, and so now life isn't going to be great for you, and so, yeah, you have to be true, and you know if you're not. And so, yeah, we agree on that one.
Speaker 1:And my prayer. I had the same prayer before every game. I pray that you know. I would say, you know, I don't. I'm not praying for you to lead us to victory, I'm praying for you to keep me healthy, in that, you know, keep both teams healthy in whatever outcome may be. Let it may be, but in reality, right, what I was really praying for was hey, if I pray this way, maybe he will actually be healthy and he'll favor me, and I was trying to trick myself in that prayer.
Speaker 1:Well, you're not trying to trick yourself. Yeah, you're tricking God. You can't right. And then, when I would get into my post-credit reflective process, I hated myself for not, because that prayer is right. I'm not asking you to guide me to victory, I'm asking you to be with me out there. Keep me healthy, keep me from being there, keep, you know, keep me healthy. You know, you know, keep me from being injured, keep both teams from being injured and allow us to play at our full capabilities. That was the prayer I wanted, but I was praying it hoping he would give me grace, not because I believed it, but because I was trying to trick him.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, and so I hated.
Speaker 1:I'll like and this is my first time talking about this, I haven't even talked about this with my wife.
Speaker 1:I hated myself for it and it took me years of reflecting to get to the point where I was like in a lot of ways I was who I said I was, but in a lot of ways I was faking it too, oh yeah, but in a lot of ways I was faking it too, oh yeah. And that's the big piece where I say you can't fake it. You can never. I couldn't even lie to myself in the mirror. Then I knew what I was doing. But you can. And for those who are faithful, you can't fake it to God. Our day is coming. Everybody has that day where you have to face him and answer for every, if you believe, every sin that you ever had, and you cannot fake it. You cannot lie. There is nothing that he doesn't know. And if you don't believe in that, when you look yourself in the mirror you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, and when you're in your conscious thought having a conversation with yourself, you know, you know, and when you're in your conscious thought having a conversation with yourself, you know the answers.
Speaker 2:Well, think about how. And you're 100% right. It's funny because everything you described is the exact same thing that would go through my head. It's unbelievable. I thought I was the only crazy person in this room, but I think you may have lost your mind as well a few times. But faith is one that I have wrestled with. Faith in sport, faith in life how do you balance sport and faith? And you know, asking God for things and the ego and all of those things. How do they balance out? And everything you described is exactly what I went through, like over and over years, like literally looking in the mirror and being like. I know the game I'm playing right now, Like it's.
Speaker 2:You know I'm prayerfully, you know I say saying a rose, said a rosary every day, for, oh, I don't know how long. I have a spiritual mentor, Father Ross, who probably knows because he is the one who got me started on that. But I say my rosary every day. I go to mass every Sunday. Why isn't God delivering me a victory?
Speaker 2:But when you read through scripture, you realize too, the victory isn't sometimes what you think it is. And then all those failures in and of themselves are probably God favoring you one way or another, whether it's an injury or not being successful, but you still in the prayer life, when you're by yourself and you're praying and you're like you know, let this be for you, Let me be successful for you. That's falling a little bit short, I think. But think about how crazy your life would be if you could get to that point where you're truly saying it's for you, yeah, and you fully submit. How many people are like like that? It's kind of scary to think. A lot it's probably not very many, I think. Even like the priests, people like that there's probably not a lot of people that get to the point where they're like fully, fully released, yeah. But imagine it's kind of what we're talking about now, like being able to let go and saying think about how happy you'd be at that point.
Speaker 2:Really, if you could let go of things it's kind of wild to think about. But I'm certainly not there. I wasn't there then, I'm not there now, But-.
Speaker 1:So there's like this adage it's not religious based, but it applies where. It's like success isn't achieving more, it's wanting less.
Speaker 2:Yeah, poverty isn't not having things. It's what is it? It's having things, but wanting more, something like that.
Speaker 1:Yes. So it's being able to apply that in the faith base where it's hey, yes, I am praying the rosary to get to heaven, but I'm praying the rosary in itself because that's reward Not necessarily heaven, but praying the rosary because I fully believe in this is what I'm supposed to do, and I'm praying the rosary for the holy souls in purgatory. That in itself is the reward Absolutely. And that's the hard part, because we will wrestle with that is why am I doing this.
Speaker 2:Well, and it's scary too. Again, I could talk faith for a while, but you start thinking about, like what you just described, right, Like the reward is praying for those souls in purgatory, For those of us that are Catholic, um, all my Protestant friends in Texas. We just lost a bunch of people. This is a lot, Um, but even more so like praying for people on earth, or praying for I guess they wouldn't be playing praying for people in the afterlife as Protestants, but like that is the reward. How many people are there? Like how many people are? How many of us Christians are there? And then you start thinking about okay, well, I don't know how you were raised. Were you raised Catholic?
Speaker 1:I was, but like very loosely.
Speaker 2:It wasn't until I met you, married into it.
Speaker 1:I married in. That's when my faith really like I actually I mean, you know the chemers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I've had some very good conversations with them. Faith-wise, that's a blessing that you got to marry into that. But you start thinking about, like I was raised in a very fire and brimstone Catholic household and so I promise this relates to what I'm about to say here, which is our conversation in the sense that, like who makes it right? And all my Protestant friends, they hold on to John 3.16, right, for God so loved the world that he gave his only son, essentially, and so that's like my ticket out of jail, um, atonement theory that's called, but that doesn't taste right. Right, like that doesn't feel like that's complete. And then you have like how I was raised, which is that, yeah, everyone's going downstairs and like there's this really high standard where even what we're talking about, like how many people really get to the point where they're living for God's will, you know, they're serving others completely and their ego is completely suppressed to the point where it doesn't even matter to them. So that makes me almost think, okay, well, one of two things are true Either there's very few that are going to be at that table maybe not you and me even. I hope that's not true or God's mercy is probably a little bit more grand than I had been raised to think, if that makes sense. So I don't know.
Speaker 2:Again, we're turning a little bit religious podcast here. I could talk for hours about that stuff, but it's fascinating to hear that, um, even in the athlete, like the sports, the realm of sports, we have similar experiences there. That, again, I've never talked about that stuff with people, truly never talked about this particular talk, especially with athletes Um, the idea of you know, I know what I'm doing here and it's not good. I'm trying, though, like I'm trying, to be better. But the prayer life is one that's serving this, serving my ego, and not God. So that's interesting, that's good. Make some progress here. Make some progress here, man, maybe you'll be the next doctor of the church, you know.
Speaker 1:We can't be the first American.
Speaker 2:Pope anymore.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, that's been taken from us, but no, I really don't talk about my faith a lot on this show.
Speaker 1:Something I told myself I would do more of when I rebranded is to open up in my life more than I already have and some of my beliefs.
Speaker 1:I never want to again project or push my beliefs on anyone, but important to understand our experiences, our views, the way we see the world and to give somebody a different perspective that may not have it, or to align with someone who has it but feels alone. Because I think there's certainly a lot of times in my life to this day maybe honestly, more now than ever outside, know, outside of like my family, where I do feel alone, like in the way that I believe, in the way that I think, knowing how secluded that is, it can feel lonely and as an athlete, right, knowing like I was the only, really the only person on any team I've been on that believed in the Catholic faith as deeply as I did, and maybe part of it was my own fault not speaking to others to see the connection. But we all are connected in one way or another and, you know, didn't anticipate this, going down this route today, but I, you know, I love it nonetheless, and uh.
Speaker 2:Well, I have a question too on that realm, maybe just a brief one. I know I texted you yesterday saying you had a bunch of questions. One of them I can't remember what it was I answered. However, I answered probably incorrectly, but not good enough for someone on the Evo Shield Canes, just a lowly Legion ball wood bat player, sure.
Speaker 1:Speaking of Evo Shield Canes, I think I was the only one to play college football instead of college baseball on my team.
Speaker 2:Oh, so we got a two-sport athlete here. I thought you were trying out for baseball. I heard it. Bucknell I was. I heard about it, I made it, you made it. Well, here we go. He's bragging a little bit. Let's hear this.
Speaker 1:I tore my ACL, though I actually did hear that.
Speaker 2:I did hear that.
Speaker 1:So I went down so honestly, part of it was ego-based. I'll be completely honest. It was ego-based. I was struggling with my football career. I'll do this. I came in true freshman starter right, had a good freshman year by most people's standards not my own, but most people's standards had a good freshman year was coming into my sophomore year freshman spring I'm not like I was bawling. Like every practice I had an interception spring game. I had two, two interceptions, one was a pick, six like was going bonkers.
Speaker 2:Like I came into the preseason, my sophomore year, with so much hype yeah, enough that you could if you don't mind me asking this question, because I don't know much about it enough hype that you could have been drafted.
Speaker 1:No, no, this is we're fcs, but I could have transferred okay, like like that type of like hype, like my coaches, like in the pager league media, were like like Colin's going to be like a guy. And so I'm coming in and one don't really know how to handle this pressure Probably didn't work as hard as I should have. And you know, work, I've always like worked hard right and worked harder than most, but I was not as intentional as usual. I come in, I hurt my knee week always like worked hard right, worked harder than most, but I was not as intentional as usual. I come in, I like hurt my knee. Week one. It's not serious, but there I get again ego based. I get put on the star player practice plan okay, which, looking back on it, I hated. Because, like I hated that, I let myself succumb to that because now I'm not practicing all the time.
Speaker 2:What's the star player? Player practice plan Like you get rest Basically you're not in there, they're coddling you. Yeah, you get coddled right. They don't want you to work.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:They want to keep you healthy and I had a it's a good feeling, though, to be on that plan though, too, in a way.
Speaker 1:Right, but that's that. Ego is inflated. But then the the second guessing starts coming in. Well, then I break my shoulder, separate my shoulder and tear my labrum. When I come the first day back from like, my knee injury Okay, and my, I still have shoulder problems to this day.
Speaker 1:But we had a true freshman coming in who ended up him and I actually ended up being good friends and he, we were running mates like each side corner, like we had really good career together, and but I knew how good he was and I was like if I don't play, I'm gonna get benched. And so for me, I was like I'm playing with this shoulder, like you guys can't keep me out, and so they let me. I was like I'm playing with this shoulder, like you guys can't keep me out, and so they let me. And I was awful, like awful. Like you talk, like you know, you talk about whatever. Like I was a terrible football player and it was the first time in my life I hadn't been good at a sport Like and like you know, ego, like that is just reality. Like it was the first time in my life where I was like I'm not good and I didn't know how to handle it.
Speaker 1:And so that off season, when I finally healed well guess what? That spring. So sophomore junior spring, I pulled my hamstring. I miss all spring. And so I was like I miss baseball. So all summer I trained to play baseball again and I hit up the coach because they recruited me out of high school, um, and I was like hey, coach heather, like I want to play baseball. Um, he's like, yeah, absolutely. He's like you know, come work out. You know, I'll put you through a workout and we'll see. And I, I crushed the workout and and Brad killed it.
Speaker 2:He puts me he's like hey.
Speaker 1:he's like yeah. He's like come out for the spring, we'll have a spot for you I was like all right, great Month later, blow up my ACL. That ACL was also. The ACL was one of the best things that ever happened to me, because it did like reignite my love for football, Like to actually be away from football for not just like a few weeks, but like that period of time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then I could have come back and played my senior year for baseball, but I was like I'm good, that's crazy. What year would that have been that you would have played? Because we played Bucknell every year on Adventure.
Speaker 1:So I would have played you what struck you out. That was easy.
Speaker 2:The highlight of it, I would have been a venture, so I would have played you, which struck you out, that was easy.
Speaker 1:The highlight of it, I would. I would have been a junior, it would have been my yeah, junior year.
Speaker 2:So my sophomore year, your sophomore. I didn't transfer until junior year, so but, if you would have stayed on, I would have seen you at some point.
Speaker 1:No would have been playing some low level baseball, east snowing. I played. Every time I played bucknell it's snowed, I think. Yeah, but uh, but yeah. So that was kind of like my like like little ego-based journey in there. I would say most of by my senior year that that ego was pretty humbled. Yeah, I was pretty humbled by that point in my career, um, but yeah, ego was high after freshman year, particularly after that freshman spring.
Speaker 1:But then god knocked me down a couple totem poles real fast, so for good reason yes, particularly you know we talked about hey injuries that acl ended up being one of the probably five greatest how'd you know what happened?
Speaker 1:literally. So I had actually partially torn it. Didn't know it for this speculation. Yeah. So I had partially torn it the week before I officially tore it. But I hurt my knee again in practice.
Speaker 1:Junior spring came down and it's called come to balance. People call it breaking down. Talk about things I hate. If you say breakdown as a defensive player, you're wrong. It's come to balance and like you don't stop moving. But I was coming to balance to make a tackle and I just like felt this click in my knee. I was like that wasn't right. Um, they checked me out. I was like, okay, they started doing this like 1980s tape wrap on my knee and I was able to like play for a week. And I remember being the first day of classes, the week before our first game and my coach looks at me as I'm like going through drills. He's like you don't feel very good, do you? I was like no, I don't. And first one-on-one rep post. As soon as I go to jump to like deflect the pass, boom, knee goes and I land in my leg like like get stuck. So I couldn't straighten it and I couldn't bend it and, uh, get the mri clean tear right through the acl.
Speaker 2:So world's over at that point right, yeah, in the moment comments crashing down there.
Speaker 1:In some parts, though, like there was like this relief. I was like I don't have to go out there and play, yeah. Like it was like I don't have to. You know, similar to how, like we talked about before, it's like I don't have to, like put myself out there and then allowing myself to experience like those feelings. Time expands and I realized I was like I miss playing and I could get back to that joy where it was like I'm not gonna let something steal my joy, I'm gonna focus on playing and I didn't do that as a great job when I got to a senior, but like much better, where I could release that outcome and just like go focus on playing what did you do actively to get to that point, though?
Speaker 2:like?
Speaker 1:so the the time so was it just a perspective yeah, perspective changed when I tore my acl and I was away from the game and I just realized how much I missed competing. Yeah, and, like how you, I couldn't get that adrenaline rush outside. Now how I would coach myself now is still different than the way I handled it then, but it got back to the point where, like rehab, I was focused every single day on just getting back to playing. I just wanted to play and just missed being in those competitive environments. Um. And then senior year had a, had a really good year. Um was able to kind of, in my own world, resurrect the sucky three years previously. Um, but just getting back to that like that perspective of I just want to play again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think, kind of to get back to what we're talking about at the beginning, I think, philosophically speaking at least, like, uh, like from a sports psychology standpoint, to me that's the most important thing. I'm not a sports psychologist, but but and I don't want to be but, because we have to deal with conversations like this every day you, know, crazy people, but I think perspective is the most important thing that you would have.
Speaker 2:I don't know if that's true or not, but at least for me, perspective I argue that it's the most. And we live in a world and a culture today where everyone's telling you your life is so difficult, they're babying you Like you know you're, you know the victim mentality is like the victim is the one on the pyramid that's the highest that you know in the religion that is. You know our politics today. You know whoever can be the greatest victim is, they'll be celebrated on as a great saint in our, in our, you know, secular faith that we have today. That doesn't help you on the, on the in life. Certainly I don't think it helps you in sport. And you know I hate to say it but, like whenever you think you're going through something hard, you're really not. You think about the countless number of people that have been through something like you. Torn ACL right Like I tore my labrum. I blew out my labrum, which ended up being, by the way, one of.
Speaker 2:I would never play professional baseball if that didn't happen and I thought my career was over and you know I felt bad for myself, badly. And then I remember this is going to be crazy. I probably shouldn't even say this, but at Mercyhurst, before I would pitch, I was so, like in tune with what I believed was next for me, which was the Marine Corps, that, like I would, I would watch, like I would literally watch combat footage, like before going out to pitch, not because, like that would fire me up, but because I realized, wow, my life is easy, like my life is so easy compared to this stuff. I never complained that time in my life, never complained about anything because I was well, I'm sure someone would hey, there's an ex-girlfriend out there. It was like, hey, he complained a lot, so I'm sure I could play. But in my mind I didn't complain because like, wow, my life is so easy, like what I used to always think too, like you know what a blessing it is, uh, to get to complain about an ACL, you know, you know what a blessing it is to get to throw a ball for and walk people. Um, you know our very worst days.
Speaker 2:There's plenty of people out there that would be like I would do anything to have that. I don't just mean like. I mean like people with horrible birth defects and disabilities are incredibly impoverished and other places of the world, and and yet here in America, well, we have a, we have a depression problem, right, like why is that? It's because people can't seem to understand like, like there's some, there's something that the human spirit needs with respect to hardship, and we live in a society that is like taken that completely away from people, um, and yet still calls us victims. You know, like so it calls us. Uh, so yeah to.
Speaker 2:I think you sent me a text last night or whatever, asking like what my, I don't know something like a philosophy or whatever it is. It's that it is that perspective is King. Like we live your life is directly a reflection of your thoughts. That's it. So, however you think in your head is how you see your life, and so if you can control the words in your head to yourself, then you have a pretty good life, probably, unless you're controlling them because you're a sadist or something you want to suffer. But, like, if you're telling yourself like hey, this is fine. Like, throw more at me, you throw more shit at me. Like, let's, like, let's go, like it's. If you do that, you're probably in pretty good life.
Speaker 1:So I wish I could remember the study. By the way, you answered none of the questions I sent you.
Speaker 2:I answered a lot of them. I answered them very well.
Speaker 1:The best, the best answers, but there's. I wish I could remember the study. But as humans, we are so attracted to problems because we we as humans love to one. Find negativity bias too. We love to actually problem solve when we have nothing wrong in our life. We will create problems out of nothing, just to fix them, just to fix them. And so the danger is, if you don't have control of the way that you think and you're not always going to control the thoughts that initially come into your head, but you can control your responses or unpack them- and if you don't?
Speaker 1:have that capability. That's where the human tendencies and our human biology can take advantage of you is I'm going to create a problem out of nothing, just to say I have a problem, just to go fix it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think Jim Fry made me read a book when I was a kid called Mind Gym. Have you heard of that? I haven't. Okay, it's no encyclopedia, like it's meant for kids, I think. But I still think about. One of the things in there at the time was so perplexing to my like 10 year old head and I was no great philosopher, but they was talking about like when you're shooting free throws and you're on the line.
Speaker 2:The game is on the line. What are you saying to yourself in that moment? You're probably saying one of two things. Can you guess? I'm quizzing you right now.
Speaker 1:I guess you're going to say what happens if I miss this or I'm going to make it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess you're going to say what happens if I miss this, or?
Speaker 1:I'm going to make it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you're either telling yourself don't miss this, or you're saying make this, make this, yeah and right there will determine most of the time whether you're successful or not. And who would you choose? Yeah, and it's that controlling your self-talk is. It takes a lot of discipline when people don't want to have discipline and working. It takes just as much time working on that stuff as as we do as athletes in the weight room or on the practice field or whatever. And nobody spends any time up here. Nobody spends any time, and I didn't spend anywhere near as much time as I should have.
Speaker 2:I spent zero, yeah, so that probably didn't help much. So my idea of spending time was watching like American Sniper and Low Survivor and thinking, okay, well, maybe that'll help me out there, because I realized that it's not that tough. But yeah, you got to work at that stuff and nobody does. I mean people do, but it's not to where it should be. Yeah, it's definitely rare. So, yeah, perspective, that's my answer to your question last night. You're welcome Free of charge. I won't charge you for this one.
Speaker 1:We'll end it there. I could, as you've said a number of times, we could keep going, can I?
Speaker 2:ask a question before I leave. You can ask me I'm thinking about. You know I'm friends with Dom Ginangeli, right? Yeah, so they tell me a story about you guys in high school. Okay, I have no idea where this is going. We can edit this part out, but it's one of the stories that man this is sad Me Dom Niccolo Naflac, all get together and of course I'm.
Speaker 1:Does this involve? Me directly?
Speaker 2:Yes, you're in it, Don't worry, you're in it. But actually you might not be in it. You were probably there, though Okay, you weren't in it, but I need to verify if this happened or not. And you would have been in this powwow or dog pile, whatever you call it, or huddle, and I'm the lowly guy that does not play football in the friend group, right Like I'm the effeminate, I guess, guy, for that reason just played this girly baseball. So they had told these stories and I just had to sit there and smile like an idiot, like know, like oh, that's so funny, guys, or whatever, not part of it, kind of stuck on the outside. But now I get to kind of be part of it because I get to verify and I'm hoping to tell me it didn't happen, so I can go home and be like, hmm, something didn't add up here, guys, he told me. And this kind of gets into sports psychology too. That's why I'm bringing it up.
Speaker 2:Tom is obviously not a giant, you know he's vertically challenged, he's vertically challenged, but a heck of a ball player, great human being, great guy to talk to. You should bring him on this podcast honestly too. But he was there and I think things weren't going well with Coach Bada or something. He wasn't proud of how you guys were playing, and I won't name who the other player is, but it was a really, really big guy on the team.
Speaker 2:I tell you after this is over, because I don't want to attack him for his effort in life, but he said something along the lines of you know, he looks around and he's like I'm going to lose this. He's like if I could just rip the heart out of Dom and put it in this guy's chest, we might actually win a ball game or something. But just absolutely insulting both guys, like basically saying you know you don't have the size of this guy and you don't have the heart of him, essentially. And so I was wondering we joke all the time I wondered if that happened or not. It had to. It's too crazy of a story not to happen. And Dom was just like what?
Speaker 1:Like I guess, thank you, I don't remember, to be honest.
Speaker 2:I hope it happened, because dom should take that as a compliment, of course. Yeah, of course you know, I don't remember. I'm sorry if I it might have been their senior year it might have could have been.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always thought dom was uh. I always loved dom as like a teammate, like he had that heart dude, he you knew you were getting 100 of what he had. Oh yeah, so I had a lot of respect for Dom. Dom was on our Turkey Bowl team for years dude.
Speaker 2:Didn't have Niccolo's hands, though Didn't have the best hands in the Whitfield. Shout out to Niccolo best hands in the Whitfield Self-proclaimed, of course, yeah.
Speaker 1:I can't verify, I can't confirm, I can't confirm or deny because I can't remember. It sounds like something.
Speaker 2:Vada would say though yeah, Sounds like something he'd say. That was my only question for you, so that was it.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you coming on, man. If people want to reach out to you, you have anything to kind of promote, or people want to follow up with you. Where can they reach you and what do you? Got going on.
Speaker 2:I don't know if there's anywhere they can reach me. I mean, I'm on social media, I suppose, but what's your Instagram and Twitter handle? I don't tweet and first of all, it's X, formerly Twitter. You're supposed to say, yeah, mike, underscore Krause, I guess, is my Instagram. But yeah, don't reach out to me. Don't reach out to me, please. I'm begging you Because there's probably going to be a complaint about something I said today, so that would be. My wish is that they don't know. You can't? I mean, if there's some emergency, dial 911. In the event that that doesn't work out, I guess you can call me. I have a truck. I shouldn't have said that Now someone's going to move their couch or something, right? My truck has a flat tire, as far as you're concerned, if you need a couch moved. So thank you for having me, though. Seriously, this is a long time. We've been trying to do this for three years, haven't we? We've been trying to do it for a minute, yeah, and every time we try to do it, god's like don't do this, like seriously.
Speaker 1:We had a flood the last time we tried to do it.
Speaker 2:The Great Flood. I was out there. I'm sure you're out there building an ark with Mr.
Speaker 1:Well, listeners, thank you for tuning in. Reach out to him on Instagram. He's got a lot of insight. Clearly Tune in next week Five stars only. Check us out at athletic42.com. Thanks guys.