The Playbook with Colin Jonov
Formerly The Athletic Fortitude Show.... Colin Jonov’s Athletic Fortitude Show has rebranded to The Playbook with Colin Jonov, evolving from a sports-centric podcast to a universal guide for mastering life’s challenges. While retaining its foundation in mindset and performance excellence, the show now expands its scope to empower everyone—athletes, entrepreneurs, professionals, and beyond—to live life to its fullest potential
The Playbook with Colin Jonov
Iowa Hawkeye Legend Alex Marinelli- How Faith Transforms Pressure Into Freedom
Alex Marinelli shares his journey as a collegiate wrestler at the University of Iowa, revealing how faith helped him navigate the immense pressure of competing at an elite program with expectations of national championships. He discusses the transformative power of understanding that identity transcends athletic performance, allowing him to compete with freedom rather than fear.
• College wrestling exposes the reality that many athletes work just as hard or harder than you
• The pressure at Iowa isn't just external - it's often self-inflicted and can be reframed through proper perspective
• Faith provided Marinelli with a consistent foundation amid the volatility of athletic competition
• A key insight: God doesn't necessarily want happiness, but holiness - a perspective that changes how we view challenges
• The mental aspect constitutes 90% of wrestling success - developing mental toughness is crucial
• There's an important distinction between being "nice" (telling people what they want to hear) and "kind" (being authentic)
• Coaches must maintain calm consistency regardless of match outcomes
• The four L's of Marinelli's coaching philosophy: Love them, Lead them, Lift them when they fail, Let them go
• Even at 27, Marinelli believes he hadn't come close to reaching his full potential as an athlete
• Letting athletes "go through the fire" is necessary for growth, though difficult for coaches who care deeply
Check out the Hawkeye Wrestling Academy if you're in the Iowa City area and want to train in one of the best wrestling environments in the country. Visit hawkeyewrestlingacademy.com or email hawkeyerwrestacademy@gmail.com.
What did you learn most about yourself competing at the national stage at the highest point in wrestling?
Speaker 2:I think I learned that there's a lot of people that work not just as hard as you, but there's a lot of people that are at a level that you may not have seen your whole life. And I think that when you get when you're in grade school and high school and like junior things, there's kind of like a false sense of reality a little bit. And then when you go to college, it's like you got grown men that have done this their whole lives and it's like the best of the best. It's like going to the nfl right like you're, you're the man and how. I say it is like and tom even says that like tom brands being my, my coach, like you want to be the bmoc, the big man on campus. Like you gotta do these, this and that and that growing up went up. Like if you went to a division, one wrestling school, like you pretty much were the bmoc.
Speaker 2:Like at your high school, or like in that particular sport, um, and I think like in college, um, I don't know about myself, like I would just say like there were just things that maybe I was leaving undone, that like like year after year, maybe I look back and just things didn't sit well with me or, like you know there were, there were a few years where, like, I was never really satisfied, and I think that that always happens in sports. But, um, college wrestling in general, it's very hard to to go a season without like experiencing a loss or even to get to take it down because I didn't, I didn't like it and take it down either. So, um, but yeah, did?
Speaker 1:was there added pressure being in iowa hawkeye versus being in ohio state buckeye or wisconsin badger? What was the pressure? Being wrestling for Iowa?
Speaker 2:I think there's a pressure. I mean a lot of the fans. They they're like hungry for a national title. Obviously, like like every team and every guy out there is. Like I want to be a national champ, but like at the University of Iowa, we have won the nationals 24 years like total, and and I think that when you're, when you're at a program like Iowa, there's a standard, and so there there is pressure.
Speaker 2:But I think that I always tell my kids, like in my youth club, that like that kind of pressure can be made up, like up here, Like it's just completely made up, like it's what you make it Right, and so like the pressure that I put on myself is self-inflicted and in my opinion, and then like it's it's standard for me, Like so the standard, standard of the pro is my standard as well. So I'm just going to go out there and compete for them and because they want it and I want it and, um, it's easy to compete for national title when, when your whole program and your whole fan base wants that for you, I don't really take criticism. I don't know. I used to internalize a lot of things growing up, but now it's like everybody's going to have an opinion and everybody's not going to be pleased If you win. If you're a four-time national champ, there's still probably somebody out there that's going to hate on you, hate on your style, hate on the way you went or the way you lived your life. So but yeah.
Speaker 1:Did you have a process for that internal pressure, cause I know everybody deals and reframes pressure in a different light. Was there anything you did specifically that put it into perspective of what it really was?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean my faith, like right, like um, growing up, I knew, knew of God, knew who he was, and I knew I knew that we were created all like for a purpose and I think that you know it's just it. You, I mean you. You just think about, like, why are we all here? Like, why are we all doing this? Like what? What does this all mean?
Speaker 2:And I feel like, um, my faith grew when I met my wife back in 2011,.
Speaker 2:I started dating my wife now and um, and then her, her brother, eli, was very influential in my life, like with my faith, um, their whole thing was very influential and then um just started to get to know God more and started to develop that relationship, cause that's what I truly feel that it is, um, and then just know, knowing now, um, um, uh, what I knew then and getting to college and growing my faith that athletes in action on campus and things like that, like you, just kind of like you have to have a consistent meaning and I feel like a sports, you can just sports and business and everything in life and everything under the sun is what um, I like to say is like can be very, um, volatile and and it just it can just be very fragile and if you, if you put a lot of weight into it, the pressure is going to get to you and I feel like for me, that my confidence and who I am as a person, and knowing who I am, who I am is I'm Jesus trained is like that's my mantra, that's like I wear a t-shirt that says Jesus trained before I match, not to like get the gold or like for that to be like a lucky rabbit's foot, but to to put him on on display because he's given me this opportunity to play and hurt, to wrestle.
Speaker 2:So, um, I feel like I just knowing, like I am loved, no matter the outcome, after I get off the mat Right, so, like, when I step on on the on the mat, oh, I'm going to win, I have a confidence. It it's like it's not just like a feeling, like a lot of uh, people want to feel, feel confident like I am. I am convicted, like I feel convicted. Like I feel convicted that I'm confident that I'm gonna win because for why, like I've put in the work, um, and and I'm confident that I'm stronger or I'm tougher or I'm mentally tougher than this guy that can last longer and that kind of alleviates the pressure for me, right?
Speaker 1:so, um, who I am, I am as a person, like what I stand for, as an athlete kind of like, developed my, my way of dealing with pressure, so so, my listeners are going to start to think that I'm bringing up faith on purpose with all my athletes, because it recently the trend has been a lot of the successful athletes that I have that I have had on have a deep relationship with their faith. Yeah, at what point did your faith really begin to take over your life day to day and really the way you behaved and the way you lived out your life?
Speaker 2:I think it was just back when. Um, well, I had a mentor and I still do. I just talked to him recently, nathan birak, who wrestled at I. He's a 197 pounder, a really great duty. He's my, basically my disciple, or like he was my, my mentor and athletes in action. He took me through Bible studies and he basically equipped me as an to share my faith, share my testimony, um lead Bible studies and make disciples and and uh, basically, it was kind of when he shared an analogy with me.
Speaker 2:Right, and a lot of people have heard this Like, if you have a plate that has a lot of it's got sectioned off food, a lot of people like to put Jesus in like a corner right and just like get to him when they need him and I do this too. I mean, everybody's not perfect Like, sometimes you pray when things are bad and you often don't pray when things are great, like when you got it Right and so Jesus really is. God is the the plate Right, he's got everything, he's not just a section Right, and now you may have wrestling, you may have your family, you may have your, your, your sport or your business or whatever it is, your school, but God's got it all and he's all like it's all working together, right, it's all, it's all like, it's all his. And if you treat something like like that you're in control and you're the commander of the ship, it's going to go the way you don't think it's going to go most of the time Now, like it's good that most, like it's good to hear that most of the people that you talk to are big in their faith and a lot of like their performance changes. But that you talk to are big in their faith and a lot of like their, their performance changes, but a lot of times that doesn't happen, right. So, like some people, I'm gonna like go to christ and I'm gonna be a champion.
Speaker 2:It's like I always tell kids like that doesn't, doesn't, it's not why you should do it like that's like that's a fleeting thing to think. And I think that, um, giving god the glory win or lose. Because a lot of times you see on interviews or right after the football game, they put a mic in front of the person's face and they're like I want to give God the glory, like heck, yeah, like awesome. And then when that people lose, like that's not typically interviewed but that's when it's hard to give the God the glory right. Like it's easy to say like God did this, god did it, god's plan when it's going great, but when it's tough, like you want, like I mean, I I've gotten that way and I've been in situations where, um, like I lost at the national tournament and the quarterfinals and I that was kind of a common theme in my, even my group, looking back, is quarterfinals.
Speaker 2:I made it to the semis one year in the national tournament, my year that with nationals, I, I, I didnals, I didn't all-American because I had to drop out. I got injured in the quarterfinals in overtime. I ended up hurting my rib and I couldn't get out of the hotel bed and Nathan Virak, my buddy, who I was just talking about, was sitting right by me. He was carrying me to the bathroom and he was making sure I was good and seeing if I could go wrestle the next match. And he was sitting by me praying for me, putting his hands on me and just saying, like you know, it's got you and things like that really positive affirmations.
Speaker 2:But I looked to him and I'm like doesn't God want me to be happy? And he's like Alex, he's like this is going to hurt to hear, but God necessarily doesn't want you to be happy. He wants you to be holy. And like dude, like joy, joyfulness is like two different things to me, right? So like I'm too, I'm totally joy. No, I'm joyful. No, god's going to use that experience that I went through not being an all American or not being a national champion that year, along with my teammates, and going through pain, hurting I mean, I was out for, you know, six months with a rib injury. It sucked and, and God wanted to be, wanted me to be holy. Through that, he commanded, commanded me to. There's nowhere in the Bible does it say like you pray and you, you receive Christ. You're going to be happy, happy forever. Right, cause there's the storm's going to come, and you know just my mentors. I'd stick around and surround myself myself with. Allow me to grow in my faith.
Speaker 1:There's a couple of different things I pick up on there. So recently I just wrote a piece called why being is Better Than Doing. I forget the exact title of the article, but when I wrote that I was thinking about it actually in a lens of faith. I may not have referenced faith in the post itself, but what I mean by why being is better than doing is when you're doing something, you're doing it for an intended outcome. So when you say I'm going to pray so I can win a national championship or I'm going to become faithful so I can get to heaven and of course that's a piece of being faithful, as opposed to when it just becomes who you are and your actions reflect that piece of you. Being faithful or religious. The being will lead to the actions and not doing the actions to get to be faithful if that makes sense, sure, it's not by work so that no one can boast.
Speaker 2:And I feel like there was a time in my life in the locker room and you know how locker rooms can get it can expletives will fly and things like that and I was talking with Birak and I was like Nathan, I need to work on my cussing right.
Speaker 2:I just felt like what you do and say should glorify the Lord and like if you, if you say you're one thing you should like act on, act on it, and he's like quit focusing on cussing and working up, focus on glorifying the Lord, and so like if you, if you truly call yourself a Christian, or you, you truly tell yourself that you to honor and what you say and do should honor, glorify the lord, like then cussing maybe isn't like in line with it, right, like foul language, like and and just thoughts in general, and maybe you're going to transform the way you think or that when you, when you truly are living in a relationship with christ and you are living that life like I just feel like to that point.
Speaker 2:Um, instead of just like being like I I'm not going to cuss today, I'm going to go in the locker room and just have a clean mouth. I'm going to think the right way. And then it's like you're not even really thinking about glorifying the Lord, you're just thinking about living the right lifestyle and as humans we're going to freaking fail. I mean, it's not a cop-out to say that and say that we're all sent from.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to so, so and that's the other piece of it. And when I reflect from a non-faith base, from like an identity lens, who you are as a person. At first, when you're aiming to become someone, there is an act of doing, but then, once you become, you're doing becomes an act of who you are. And so when I talk about and you articulated this as a man of faith, when you are in your lowest points, that is the price to pay to earn your faithfulness, just like as an identity. If I want to be someone who's courageous, I have to go through an event that enables me to be courageous, and so the reframe when you're in those stages is this is my opportunity to earn that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is what you prayed for. Right, like, like I'm like God, give me the strength. Or it's like God's going to give you opportunities to show your strength. Right, like God's going to give you opportunities to show me my, my courage and my, my, uh, my slow to angerness. Right Like I'm, I get angry quick. Like I'm just like that's just too. I'm not patient. Um, and what is? What is the fruit of it? Right, it's, it's love, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, like a lot of the, a lot of those things you pray for. And then it's like it happens, and it's like God's like I'm literally giving you what, what you say you want, but you got to, like it's gotta be you man, you know what I mean. Like to an extent, right, I'm not, I'm not all powerful, but I can definitely take, take some accountability and some things.
Speaker 1:So I think that's the important part too is we're all a work in progress. We are all continuing to grow and evolve and understanding that comes with it, and one failure, one hiccup doesn't define you. It's your response to those things and making sure that a singular mistake or a singular loss doesn't turn into a habitual form of those mistakes, of those losses.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 1:You mentioned this and you said your big thing was the quarterfinals. Was it a mental block when you'd get to that quarterfinal match, or what was it that you felt was your biggest obstacle at that stage?
Speaker 2:I don't know, maybe it's like matchup styles. I mean I look back at those matches. Maybe it's like matchup styles. I mean I look back at those matches and it's funny, like every year that I lost at the nationals, I I lost, and I don't know. I mean I don't know why. I just think this way and it's like I lost by like a takedown, yeah, like one takedown, like caused that match, so like it wasn't. Like I got blown out of the, the water and and I I got killed and I got major decision or tech fault. Like the first year I got, I got beaten the semis and that was like four to two, but then, like years after that, it was like right at the end, with like 10 seconds left, I got taken down. It was an overtime or time, and then it was an overtime.
Speaker 2:So it's like putting a complete match together was just something that I'd done and I felt like and it's funny, the year that I lost my uh, my final year, I had beaten that guy in the big 10 finals a year before. So or there, or like not not the year before, literally the, the week week before, like two weeks before. So you're, you're, you're like I don't think it was. To me. It wasn't like an overconfidence. I don't like to ever like uh, uh, give people too much credit, but then also I don't want to like look down on them because they're all tough and they're all, they're all ready to like, they're all wanting to beat me. So, um, I just think to me it's like I didn't end up capitalizing on a certain couple things and it would have went my way, like there was one instance in that match, my senior year, where I'd gotten a takedown situation and the guy, the coach, challenged it and then I got taken back. And then it's like, if I would, if, if that wouldn't have happened, there's no way that guy would have taken me down like and and but, but some, some things. You got to roll with it, then you got to get to take down in overtime. So it's just, it's a lot of like, reflecting of like why did it? Why did it happen? I mean, god wanted that to happen or god allowed that to happen. But also it's like, how much control am I in in that situation? Like I talked to terry brands about it.
Speaker 2:Like tough thing, about losses in sports and in wrestling in general, is like because you're the only one out there. Am I the one in control? Or it's like how much does god allow? Like it's like obviously, like it's got, it's all god's plan. Like I didn't win a national title, I didn't make the olympic team at the o, like that's, that's God's plan.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, like how much can I? Like I don't know. Like it's I don't like not being in control. And when you're out on the mat you pretty much are. But it's like how much are you?
Speaker 2:It's like when you experience a loss as of with a family, like with a family with a family member, you have a death in the family. That is completely like you have a depth in the family. That is completely like you're not in control at all, like it's a lot of it's like in God's hands. Um, free things happen, but um, when you're in a wrestling match, it's like you're pretty much everything you think is in control and then something like that happens. You really beat yourself up, but it's like giving it to God is like the biggest thing that I've done.
Speaker 2:Um, then reflecting like how, how did my life be had I become a national champion? Like that's something that Terry's like helped me out with, is like cause I, would I still free, not frequently, periodically, like have some nightmares, just like athletes always do is like you wake up and you're like you. You realize that you didn't get it done. Or you had a uh, a dream that you kind of relive it.
Speaker 2:Um, terry's, like if you were a national champion, you had that trophy when you got home and you put them and you put it on, like what, how different would your life be like? Yeah, you could call yourself a national champion forever and nobody can take you, take that away from you. But like a lot of this stuff I mean we talk about, you can't die with a national national title. Like you, it'll always be on the wall. But like it's not going to save me, like it's not going to save me from from going to hell or heaven, so like for me, like that's just kind of like like giving me to know that like it is sports, it is a sport, so don't put too much weight into it, but it does, it does matter to me, so it's kind of tough.
Speaker 1:What do you think was the difference between big tens and NCAAs? Was it the style of tournament? Was it the number of matches? How different is door from tournament style?
Speaker 2:I think a little bit of both, but at both right the years that I want it. So for those listening that haven't known, like not to like pat myself on the back, I won four big 10 titles and then, and then I was All-American three times, but one with COVID, because I was ranked number one that year, going into COVID year, and then they canceled the Nationals. But I mean, I don't know, looking back, when you're the one and two seed at the Big Tens, you have a bye to those first rounds and then you have three in the near Nationals or you're in the semis and then you win another one, you're in the finals and then you like have one more match at the nationals. Like you have two every day, um, except for the last day. So like it's like match, match and then match, match and then your finals, right, so it's only like two more matches, like five matches.
Speaker 2:But, um, guys, just I mean you're making weight three times times now. But I don't know, guys get amped up for nationals, man, like they get like big 10 sometimes. Like I've seen guys forfeit in the finals because they they care about nationals like, and I've seen that multiple times where, um, you forfeit, and I mean my teammates have had to do that and it's like you're you, you care about winning the national title and um, to me it's like I cared about a lot and maybe I put too much weight into don't don't need too much weight into big tens, right, but I don't, I don't, um, I don't regret um doing that, because I just I cared a lot when I went out on the mat.
Speaker 1:So but when you measure your own career, do you feel you lived up to your own potential?
Speaker 2:I, I don't, I don't, I had the potential I had for myself. That's the hardest part when, uh, when people are like, dude, be proud of your career and you probably get this too right, like you went so far and you're a four-time big 10 champ, like there's people that would kill to and I'm appreciative of the the relationships I've had and the things that Iowa has given me and the things that my high school coach has given me and the lessons learned, and. But when you set out for a goal and you don't get it, I mean I was thinking about it every single day, like I was, was like, every day you wake up, the things you do are to get you to that goal. Like it's not, like you just wake up and you don't have an agenda of your life. Like it's like what do I eat? How do I sleep? You do it to win. So it's now it's like, yes, like I'm coaching and uh, and I do it to keep my body healthy and things like that and to give back to the sport.
Speaker 2:But you set out for a goal and you don't get it. It's really tough and I don't ever want to sound unappreciative to the fans of like, oh, I'm just down on myself Because I did have a good career. I did have something that is something to be proud of. But when you don't win and it's like you were number one in the country, however many years going into it, you get pretty sick of it. It's kind of frustrating. You try to help people that you coach now, not experience it. Hopefully they can be better than me.
Speaker 1:The problem I have with it and honestly related to something I talked about honestly with watching my daughters grow up. It's like the balance between gratitude and heartache. I reflect on my own career. Most people would say I overachieved. In my mind I severely underachieved, and that doesn't mean that I'm not grateful for the things that I did accomplish.
Speaker 1:But I had, like you said, an expectation for myself, goals that I wanted to hit, things that I worked towards that at least I felt were achievable. It didn't matter what anybody else thought, but to myself it was achievable. And when you fall below those standards it doesn't mean I'm not grateful for everything I did achieve it. It means I still wanted more for myself and I think any competitive you athlete I bet if you asked Tom Brady he would say he underachieved right. Just the general nature of competitive athletics is and anyone who's just competitive in any field is the more you climb the ladder, the more you still want to achieve. Now I believe there's a healthy component of that and maybe some of what we experience is unhealthy, but it's just that competitor's mindset that, hey, I did want more for myself and I just didn't get there. So it's that tough strike between gratitude and heartache of happy of what I accomplished, but the heartache of not accomplishing what I set out to.
Speaker 2:Right, because seeing guys that are four-timers and four-time national champs and Kale Sanderson went undefeated and things like that four-time national champs and you know Kale Sanderson went undefeated and things like that it's like I know I was like I can go out there and I can be so consistent and I can go out there and do the same thing. I can go win the one national, like I just I knew that I had it in me and I just fell short and it is what it is, it is life and you just got to keep going. But it's one of those things that, like I just, you know, try to not let my kids do it Like I'm. I'm at the point in my life where I agree, like I I have a daughter, like we've talked about as well, and you know I'm going to be like appreciative of I am.
Speaker 2:It's kind of funny, like we, we look at our kids and we expect them to be perfect, but we're not perfect and it's like you know, she's learning and she's developing things and she's getting disciplined every day, and but it's like sometimes I need the same thing and and it's it's one of those things that like, uh, I don't know, just being appreciative of, of the process and like we're all, no matter how old we get, we're all going to make mistakes and, um, how old we get, we're all going to make mistakes and hopefully we can minimize them. But you know, it's just, it's kind of it's kind of funny being in that dad role where you kind of see like a little kid, you can see yourself in her, and then it's like man, like you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I am developing, just as she is, but she's like just on a different scale.
Speaker 1:So I'll say one of the greatest developments for myself was when my daughter was born and as she continues to get older and I try to educate, discipline her and my other daughter as well, and then you know my, my future son coming here the more I learned that they model behavior, and so for me it's been.
Speaker 1:The greatest teaching for myself was I can't ask anything of my kids that I am not willing to do myself. And it's the same thing when I work with athletes. If I am going to teach, write or speak about a topic, it cannot be fake. It has to be consistent with who I am, or else it loses all meaning in all purpose. If I'm not actively living that out and to me there's been no greater teacher in life and, like I said earlier, there's a price to pay for certain things, when I ask stuff of someone else or when I am speaking or writing. If I don't live out those behaviors, then what impact does my writing or words actually have? It just becomes fraudulent. And the most important thing for me is to be authentic and real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, I mean I something to sorry to cut you off something that you said right along those lines. I listened to a clip you posted working with some of your young wrestlers and you were talking about that working hard piece and you kept saying you'll know, right At the end of the day, when you go to bed, you'll know.
Speaker 2:Only you know who knows for sure. I feel like it's so true, there's coaches and when you get to the point where you're evaluating athletes or whatever, it's like oh you did great this year, johnny, or oh, you did great, you're doing your push-ups, you're doing that. It's like could you do more? You know, you know if you're holding back or you know if you've worked your hardest. Now it's like what's what's hard work is? Like it's cause it's kind of like relative right, like I feel like a lot of people have talent and they they don't necessarily need to work that hard to like win, but it's going to catch up to them. Right, it's going to catch up to them. I feel like, um, but for me, like I, yeah, I tell my athletes like, and it's a Terry Brands philosophy, right, like you, only you know who knows for sure, because I'm not you and you know that if you're holding yourself accountable up here and the decisions you make off the mat and on the mat, things like that, like I just cause I tell my kids like I am not your parent and if I was, like it'd be a lot easier to keep tabs on you, but you see me two hours a night or whatever. And then you see me on the weekends at tournaments and things like that. But like when you go home or when you're in the classroom, or when you are like waking up every morning, like when you're going to bed, are you doing pushups? When you wake up or go to bed, Like, are you doing? Are you eating the right way? Are you sneaking junk food at your, at your house? Like, how's your weight? Are you drinking enough water? Like only you know, only you know, because it's going to be on you.
Speaker 2:That's the tough thing about coaching. You can't control everybody. I'm sure Tom and Terry looking at me wrestle at the Nationals, I'm sure they wanted to freaking control me like a PlayStation 4 controller. They could do something to get me to win. But that's the hard part about coaching. The beautiful thing of it is you can't control everybody and you've got to let them blossom and let them either fail or succeed or you always got to lift them up and lead them to, hopefully, victory. But but, but, yeah, so it's, it's good, it's good.
Speaker 1:Now, the psychological warfare of what's enough is something I really struggle with. How do you measure what's enough is something I really struggle with. How do you measure what's enough?
Speaker 2:It's tricky. I think there's a lot of things online of like what now they're getting to, like, test your body, test your oxygen stuff, test your like this and that, like how much output you have in your body, like I know, like I just think the technology these days can get you, can help you, and and because I feel like back in the day it was and it's still, like there's no magical pill, but I always tell kids like you, you know, if you're hitting, if you're getting in off season or off practice times, reps and like drilling, like, drilling, like, drilling, drilling, drilling. Because I feel like everybody wants the bill thing, they want to go live. And the next thing you know you create bad habits. It's like you know you, you go and do your two hour practice that everybody else does. That is not enough to be, to be elite, to be like, to be like the Tom Brady that you want to be, or to be the wrestler you admire.
Speaker 2:That's really good, because they were doing something that set them apart, builds more strength than the other guy, and I feel like that was a struggle with me growing up. But I thought that I had a good plan of doing. For example, I did 300 push-ups every day in 2000 job growth, like every single day, and whether it was like, I think I was around like eight or nine years old, so like that's, that's that some third grade kid they're like this guy's a psycho, but like I craved it and I wanted it and I was like you know what I mean, like this little kid's doing these pushups and these jump ropes and like, but I loved it and I thought that it, I thought that that made the difference. Like, I thought that like no, it it made me stronger and it probably made me in better shape doing jump rope and things like that. And then I went to club practice and then I went to my local local youth practice. So like there's just there's things that you can read online Like are you eating the right foods? Are you doing you can work hard at different things right, like don't, don't always work hard physical, and I'm sure you'll touch on that.
Speaker 2:It's like for me and I always tell my kids, 90% of wrestling and they say this in sports in general are mental. Like 90% of wrestling is mental. Um, and we're partnering here pretty, pretty soon with the uh, an organization called athletes mentor. They're local for Iowa and they'll like work with our athletes on like creating like a Hawkeye wrestling academy, like club specific, like program curriculum that they'll go through for the next three months and I, for me, I'll, I'll get their wrestling under control and I'll teach them everything they want about wrestling. I'll always preach to them about how to grow their nutrition, um, um, and their their, their sleep and sleep and things like like that. Like adjust that and be a mentor that way. But off the mat, if you don't train that mental you're, you're gonna it's just gonna be really hard to like keep that up.
Speaker 1:It's gonna be really hard what was the biggest mental advice or coaching that you got that made the biggest difference for yourself?
Speaker 2:hmm, that's tough. Um, so we do the, we do this thing. Um, it's called 10 minute toughness. Uh, and it's a. It's off of a book, Um, and I don't know.
Speaker 1:Let me see, I have that book actually on my my shelf back there, so I may I may know where you're going with this, but let's hear it.
Speaker 2:Like just knowing who you are like. Like basically it's like it's like god identity statement it's got to perform goal. Like performance statement it has like. And then creating like a routine every day. You like say it's 10 minutes a day, like like I know I'm not the alex marinelli that I want to be when I don't start my day off with reading, like staying in the word or like just doing the right things. Like I mean it goes as simple as putting the water into your body to like be hydrated throughout the day.
Speaker 2:If you don't put the right things in, you're not going to get as much out. It's kind of like cutting weight. A lot of people think I shouldn't be eating and drinking because I want to be lighter. Actually, you eat two more pounds and you think you're going to have more fuel to burn more Right, and so like just I mean it's gotta be right fuel.
Speaker 2:But it's the same thing when you're investing time, like, say, 10 minutes a day, which is nothing, cause there's 24 hours in the day Like like you're I don't know You're just going to be more bulletproof than than you think when you walk out on the mat or when when you're at practice, because you don't work that mental game and that mental toughness you are. It's just your body's gonna somewhat give in at some point because your brain's not going to take over. So it's gonna, your body's gonna tell your brain like, hey, give in, dude, like we're hot, we're tired. And then you know your brain's gonna be like, all right, I don't even know who I am and I don't even know why I'm doing this, so I'm just going to be done.
Speaker 1:The couple of things I want to touch on here. First, I want to go to you talked about when you were eight, nine years old and you were doing the ridiculous amount of jumping jacks and other exercises. Were you always innately obsessed or did you have to learn and develop, or was it both?
Speaker 2:it's a little bit of both. I think it was, I think it was an unhappy relationships of sports that I created with like kind of like dysfunction with my family, like you do good, and then your like family names, like talk about whatever, but like that's a whole nother like topic. But like I just feel like I don't know, I just I just craved, like my dad put me in wrestling when I was, when I was younger, with my, and I kind of took to it pretty well, and then I like I loved football, I loved hitball, um, I love like scoring touchdowns, I love hitting home runs and doing baseball and things like that. I just I was an athletic guy. I always liked to play outside, I was always active, um, I had that in me, but it was just like I don't know, I just wanted to achieve greatness and I wanted to have, um, I wanted to be the best in the country and my dad kind of like like I don't know, he, he facilitated that, he helped it, he like we drove around the country and he, he, I mean my first jump rope, my serious jump rope, was from a, uh, a guy named buddy, buddy lee, so I don't know if you know who that is, but he's like a famous, like professional boxer, like uh, I think he's a wrestler actually, but he was.
Speaker 2:He's very good at jump roping. He bought me his dvd. He did like a seminar thing at like a wrestling tournament one time. So like I saw him and I'm like that, like that's a crush. He's doing all kinds of like jump rope tricks and things like that and then ended up getting good and then my, my talent, like third grade, like in front of the whole school I did like a, a jump rope routine thingy and it was like, looking back, that's like cringy to me, like doing a talent show, jump rope thing. But like that's just who I was as a kid. Like I just love to be active. Um, some of my buddies like wouldn't even hang out with me because they just wanted to play madden on playstation 2 all the time. So I just I just like I just wanted to go out and play basketball or whatever. Um, I was always.
Speaker 1:I was always that guy that's that commitment piece too, you know. You know I went through similar things, right. I mean when, when I was, even at a young age, like I would never be home until like nine, ten o'clock at night.
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 1:I would go to school and then I had sports, I had training, I had more sports, you know, you know playing three sports around high school, like I wouldn't get home until nine or 10 o'clock at night. Like I would get home and like my stepdad would be asleep on the couch on the weekends, like I was playing sports. I didn't have time. Now, of course, I played, you know, video games and like hung out with friends, but, right, it was not often like, but I didn't know any different, like that was to me. I was like okay with that, like I loved competing and getting better, like that's what my life was.
Speaker 1:And I think that there is a component that that is naturally in my genetics. I also think that there's the component I had to learn and adapt. But I think a lot of kids struggle today and I'm sure you see this with the young guys that you're training they don't understand the true level of commitment and as you get older you have to understand. To get to a certain level, there are trade-offs that you have to have and you have to look yourself in the mirror without judgment that's the key part without judgment to determine either I am willing to commit to this or I'm not, and if I'm not, I need to stop having that desire in my life and that, I think, is such a tough part for athletes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think instant gratification is the problem, like instant. Everything's so quick these days, everything's like you get it right now and I feel like, if you don't, a lot of people are like screw it, I'm just like not going to do that, it's too hard. And I feel like there is a false sense of reality because of social media. I feel I feel like there are like influencers or athletes that are like always faced or pushing their brand and it's like some people, some kids, don't think that's attainable or they think that it's like well, I see what this guy's doing, so and I'm doing something similar, so why isn't that working? Well, actually, what you don't get is that he's probably doing more work. He's just not posting that, or like, or he is, he is gifted, or like he's putting more weight on the bar, or he's like waking up at 4, 30 am or 5 or whatever, and he's doing more and more workouts. I just think that, um, just what social media has done. And then also just like the generation thing. I mean, I know like there are club parents or just clubs in general where I talk to coaches and they're like yeah, like my kid will be doing well, he'll have a really good winning percentage, but he didn't win at state and they'll just club hop and they'll be like, well, we didn't get what we wanted and we think we're not getting the best, and then they'll just keep doing it and, just like you, stick to it and stay consistent. Something special is going to happen.
Speaker 2:Like and I think consistency is the hardest thing to get in kids right now is like they got to like feel it. They got to feel motivated. It's like I tell them, like motivation is not a feeling, like it is, but it's like it's like your motive should be your goal. Like cause you're going to feel like you want to be a champion one of these days or days. Or like you're like you're going to want, you want to do it, but why are you doing this? It's like the biggest, biggest thing. Like are you doing it Cause your parents want you to do it, or are you? Are you doing it because you want to put a plaque on your wall or be the best, or be a legend in the sport, or be someone that changes the sport, or like gets fans out of the stands when you're, when you're in card arena. Like that to me, like they don't go up and get a carver comb and I wrestle. They, they stay in hands, they're excited, they're like we loved you wrestling, like that's what motivated me.
Speaker 2:Now I'm not doing it just to like please people, but at the same time, like my motivation is to be a the best Academy in the country, have the best environment in the country, not just number one Right Cause, like you, could sacrifice your accolades for your, your, your, your, your culture accolades. You know what I mean. And so I don't. I don't think. I don't think it's, it's not fixable. I think there's always ways to help with the way kids are, but it's. It's definitely tough when they're, they have expectations and then they're like stuck in their own way, they're not coachable. I'm like you kids got to be coachable to um, to, in order to make improvement.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean so yeah the older you get in, the more mature that you become, as you become a young man or a young woman. For me, I had to begin to to reframe and understand those deeper reasonings, those deeper whys, and for me, what I really unpacked it through, you know, a series of questioning for myself was why did I love football so much? Why did I love so much and like, what part of me draws to those things? And it really came down to three simple things I love a mental challenge, I love an emotional challenge and I love a physical challenge, right. And so for me, what it became was to be able to get away from some of those external validations, or the instant gratification was I had to put myself in situations where I could check those boxes Am I challenging myself physically? Am I challenging myself emotionally? Am I challenging myself mentally? And then, to what degree? How deep and how aggressive am I challenging myself in those spaces?
Speaker 1:And so that's what I encourage younger athletes to do, I encourage professional collegiate at any depth really start unpacking the why, like you said, what is it specifically? What draws you to this, what lights you up, what brings you know, what puts a fire in your slyr? And to be able to take it to a granular level so that you can pour your energy into that. So then we can get rid of the instant gratification. We can get rid of, you know, the external validation because it goes so much deeper than any accolade or anything that comes with it. And yes, those things are fantastic. I still have my Jersey behind me. I have my picture with the bills over on the other side of the wall. I can't like. Those things are awesome and it's a reminder of the things I accomplished.
Speaker 2:But my why goes so much deeper than that, yeah, and you'll miss, like, when you're retired or whatever, like and whatever you're doing, like whoever's watching this, and you'll miss when you're retired or whatever, and whatever you're doing, whoever's watching this you will miss the grind, you will miss the fight, you will miss the things that I love. It's funny. So a month ago I think we touched on this when I saw you a week and a two or a year ago, I got sick a month ago and I just didn't know what was up. I had some GMs and I was out of commission for a while and like, probably like a good two weeks or three weeks and uh, I just I found myself like not getting better, not because of, like, the health I was in, but like, honestly, like I wasn't in the environment that I loved, like I wasn't like when I got back back to like getting in the wrestling room or like getting a lift in or like working out and like, like, like away from, like from my phone, because, like, when you're sick and four days in bed you're not eating, like you're just doom scrolling and on your instagram reels and stuff like it it's, it can literally put you in a hole and I feel like that's kind of society. They're just like I. I was like craving like a workout. I was craving like so now it's now. It's like I had to go in and scrap with some of the college guys. I can't wait to go pour into them and and like when you, when you put a workout, it's amazing how much better you feel.
Speaker 2:So it's it's like when, when something's taken from you or like you, you're not around it as much. It kind of like lets you evaluate certain things. And that that's what helps him with me, like with injuries in the past is like tom brand told me, like when I got injured. He's like you will never forget how to wrestle. You'll never forget how to get how to wrestle. He's like your shape may like get affected a little bit, but like this make this injury may be good for you to like take a break.
Speaker 2:Now if it's like a career ending or like like something that's like debilitating. Like where you're right before nationals, you can't wrestle, that sucks. But like sometimes I'd hurt my knee and I'd have to like have to like sit for weeks and it kind of gets you hungry a little bit more. Like it lets you realize that lies, that like it lets you appreciate being healthy. It's like having like a uh, a stuffy nose and then you're like wait, I wish I wasn't, I didn't have that. You, you feel thankful when you, when you didn't have one, but um, but yeah, like for me, I'm just. I think analyzing a lot of those things differently helps, helps you go through those times.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, one thing I appreciate about you, especially getting to spend some time with you recently, is who you are on the mat and who you are off the mat are dramatically different people. Dramatically different people. I think you could watch you on the mat and objectively be like this dude seems like a jerk, but then off the mat you are one of the nicest humans ever. So it's like how do you balance that dynamic of personality?
Speaker 2:I always tell my guys, kind off the mat, mean on the mat, like you, like you have. Like I always tell my kids like there's a difference between being nice and kind. Like to me, like kind is the fruit of spirit, right, like patience, kindness, like when you're a nice guy you're kind of like a pushover, like I don't want to be a guy that's like you meet and you're like, wow, that guy was fake. Like that guy was like acting, like. Whatever I want to be, I want to be genuine. I want to be like hey, like who are you? Like what makes you that way? Like kind of get to know you, um, and just treat with respect. And then on the mat and when I leave, I want you to not want to wrestle me again. Like that's what I want, like that's what I want. Like I want you to be like at big tens or at a dual meet. After that, I want you to be like man, I do not want to wrestle that guy again. That's gonna suck and so and so like to me it's like it's almost like a, a messed up, sick of thinking I want to humiliate him in front of 16,000 fans, like I want to.
Speaker 2:I want to like absolutely push him in off the mat and just like make him put his head down and I just that's just like my mentality and I, I, the older I get, like I'm not that old, I'm only 27. And um, but when I'm in the college room I still, I still got. I don't think that way. Um, like I don't. I have pride and sometimes it sucks when I don't have great practices still, cause I am retired, I'm not in best shape of my life, but I, uh, I want to. I want to do that, cause it's only going to if I'm not wrestling my best for those guys like they're not getting as good. Um, so I kind of like I got to still keep it in me and stay in good shape.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I appreciate that, I appreciate that no, so the difference between nice and kind fully in alignment. I do think there's a massive difference between being a nice person and a kind person, and I'll always repeat this on the podcast that people need to become more definitive with the language that they choose and the words that they use and really give them definitions and understand their meaning so you can articulate and live through life in a more clear lens, you know, be able to attach words to meaning and live those actions out.
Speaker 2:I love that. Not to interrupt you. Like Terry, terry, no, please do. Yeah, well, terry's corrected me before where I'll be like I'll say something. I'll be like hey, not, not gonna, not gonna lie. But he's like why would you say that? Like are you? Like, are you coming? Are you going to be truthful? Like hey, I'm not going to lie, but like hey, whatever, whatever. Or like hey, like hey, to be honest. This is what I'm thinking. It's like you're always going to be honest. So slow down and think about what you're going to say, because sometimes you just get in that mode of not really thinking and just talking and being more intentful, being like slowing down and being still, and I love that about having behind what you're talking about. It's great, great stuff.
Speaker 1:That piece piece, though I've gotten that same years ago. I would say, to be honest, or honestly and sometimes it's just a filler word yeah, yeah, yeah, because the critique I would get back was well, if you don't say that, are you not being honest with me? Right, right, and. And that was the feedback I got. And so now I have to have that conscious decision before I speak. And that goes back to being kind and nice. I think that's a really important distinction. A nice person tells you what you want to hear. A kind person tells you can, if you can trust anything I say you're going to have a better relationship with me and I'm going to have a better relationship with everybody else in my life as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I tell a lot of the guys on the team is like, do you trust me? Do you trust that we want you to be great? Do we so? Like okay, if we tell you to do your bands after practice, or like, do these things? Like we're not just telling you to like to like big man, yeah, Like we're like we're not, like we want you to succeed, we want and I'm not coming out of like from a malicious like standpoint, Um and so I don't know I just feel like the, the things that I've experienced, help with that, and like the, the, the mentorship and things like that. I mean I'm I'm super going to give compliments out, just to give a compliment.
Speaker 1:I, when I say something, I want it to have impact and meaning. So when I do give you a compliment or I do say something, you know there's no BS behind that. And it's the same thing with criticism, criticism more or coaching, or you know specifically how you want to define those is I'm not going to give criticism or feedback unless it's asked for. So I'm going to sit back and science. But then when people ask me, they know that they're getting exactly what I perceive that they need. And if you need me to serve a different role, you have to be able to communicate that as well.
Speaker 1:And I think that's another thing athletes struggle with is. I don't think I know athletes struggle with. It is they don't know who to go to when they need something. If you need me to pat you on your back and say it's okay, little Johnny, you're the best ever, I'm not that guy. You can't ask me to do that. That's something. For example, in my own life I would ask my mother if I needed a paddling back, or now my wife where it's like I need you to tell me how great I am. I'm not going to go to my father for that. That's not the role that they serve in my life, and so you have to determine who serves what specific role in your life so that you can go to that person and get the feedback or get that space that you need in those moments Perfect, yeah, knowing, knowing everybody's role, knowing that's so true.
Speaker 2:Like, and yeah, I try to. I try to tell like a lot of my uh, my coaches that coached me, or even wrestlers in general, like communication's big, I feel like not internalizing things to where you have a perception of like if you have a problem with something, like come talk to me, like I'll, I'll be straight up, like like what you just said, like you know, because there are things that have come up or whatever, and and some of my wrestlers may think certain way, and it's like, if you just come talk, come talk to me, it's like what you said. You, you had a perception of me based on what you saw on TV and I don't want ever my kids to fear me, but I want them to respect me because I love them Right Cause, like when you, when you go into the room and you fear your coach, it's like that. That's not like that's. I want to.
Speaker 2:I want them to know, basically one thing that I love them, and so we have like three or four L's that we try to preach at my youth academy is we love them, we lead them, we pick them up if they're going to fail, which they're going to, and then we let them go in the end. So letting them go is like when they graduate the program, or even just on the mat, because as a coach, you can't make them win and so you're going to have to like let them fly. And so loving them first because I lead with love, not with fear as a coach it's super important. I mean, love is like the greatest power ever, right, and so that gets kids bought in. It gets kids aware that you do care for them, and then you teach them how to wrestle. So I think that, uh yeah, like being intentional with that is super important.
Speaker 1:So letting go is so hard, both as a coach and an athlete, to let go. That concept is such a challenging one to coach. What success have you had learning that let go element and how to actually put it into practice and live action?
Speaker 2:So a good thing that I, like most coaches you will see in college, like coaching college, and there there's guys that are like animated in the corner and there's times and there's like points in the matches where they let their emotions like kind of get crazy. But most of the time and this is even with tom and terry people think they're crazy. Um, but like most of the time, if something's going on that shouldn't be going on, like maybe, like they're, they're wrestlers down by eight points, no matter what, as a coach in the corner, you gotta be calm. Like you gotta be consistent because your athlete feeds off of you. And so, like if you're down 8-0 or like even if you're, if you, if you're my wrestler and you lose, I want the fans to to not even know whether you won or lost when we got off the mat. So like I don't want to like obviously like if you win a big match over, like I'll give you a hug or whatever. But like I'm gonna be talking to like obviously, like if you win a big match, I'll come over and like I'll give you a hug or whatever, but like I'm going to be talking to you pretty much the same, whether you win or lost because there's more work to do. Like there's always more work to do. So, like you get off the mat, hey, get a cool down in. We're going to assess this match. Like we're going to look back you or, hey, great match, you did this well. Hey, you maybe didn't do this well.
Speaker 2:Like I think just being like sometimes some guys will coach with me that are younger and they, like they're getting amped up and they're like they're freaking out and I'm like, hey, there's nothing that you can do. Like, in this spot right here, there is no. No. Like think, now you can maybe tell him to go top or go bottom, and you can, he can ride him out, then maybe that got him a win. But like, let him to go top or go bottom, and you can, he can write them out, then maybe that got him a win. But like, let him wrestle, go through let.
Speaker 2:A great piece of advice I got from a coach was like, directed more towards parents. But like you have to let your kid go through the fire. If he doesn't get to go through the fire, he ain't going to get burned, he's not going to learn. So like, at some point they're gonna, they will get burnt. That sucks, but like it's just the way it is.
Speaker 2:And and the way I feel in matches when people wrestle, I'm, I'm. It sucks because I got, like a lot of them, that's the way all college coaches feel. I'm. I'm not regretful, but I am sad at the the accomplishments I didn't get. But as coaches, you bring people in and you create relationships with them and then you want to see them win state accomplishments I didn't get. But as coaches, you bring people in and you create relationships with them and then you want to see them win state and they didn't get it. That's hard and they experience that year after year. Right, but it's not themselves. I just think, as a coach, letting go and knowing that it is ultimately their life. But you got to do all you can do to get them to where they want to be got to do all you can do to to get them to where they want to be.
Speaker 1:So If you could pick one thing that you know now, that you wish you knew when you were competing at the highest levels, what, what, what would it?
Speaker 2:be, I'm not even close to my full potential. Like I'm 27 now and like I don't know, I just feel like I got not stuck or like you get into a mode like in wrestling, like you hit kind of something similar, like the same kind of moves and things like that. Like I'm not, I'm not even close to like, like in freestyle. I started freestyle when I was in college. So, like a lot of kids like start freestyle when they're young, so it's a different type of style than folk style college wrestling. But like I wasn't even I could tell like in college.
Speaker 2:I just think there were times where I was hard-headed and like maybe didn't adapt and apply, and then it's like maybe that bit me, bit me in the butt, or like you know, and I think that like certain coaches are like you know, I couldn't get through to you or things like that maybe certain things just didn't work out like and then, and maybe I didn't, it didn't jive with me or resonate with me and so I didn't apply it when I wrestled. But I just think, like developing different areas of my wrestling, I wish I would have known how beneficial certain different like areas were, because I'm like learning new technique to like kids and I'm like man I should have done that when I was wrestling in college like tom will like show me like technique later in my career, or like just like point something out and I'm like maybe I should like just knowledge, knowledge in the sport, knowing, knowing different positions and how to get out of them, and things like that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, you can never stop evolving. Well, man, I appreciate you. Yeah, I appreciate you coming on, my friend. Um, we may have to run it back again again. I keep saying this to my guests. I have a whole list of questions I never get to. We'll have the running back again. If people want to reach out to you or if there's anything you want to promote, how can people get ahold of you and what are you working on right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm working on growing the best youth wrestling academy in the country. The Hawkeye Rockette Wrestling Academy started a couple couple years ago. I coach kids from four years old to high school. If you're in the area of Iowa City and you want to be the best wrestler, you can be and be around an environment that lets you grow and you're training in the best environment possible Carver Hockey Arena and the new Iowa Wrestling Facility that just got built. Reach out to us at hawkeyerwrest Academy. Um at gmailcom. Um, and we have a website um Hawkeye wrestling Academycom. It's got some dashes in between. Uh, hawkeye wrestling Academy. So, uh, but, yeah, just reach out to us if you need. Um, you can DM me, dm me on Instagram. Honestly, it's obviously to give god the glory and give him a platform and, uh, we'll always, we'll always stay true to that and I'm not I'm unashamed of the gospel. So, um, yeah, but I think thank you for having me on and we got to do it again, so thank you, brother, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Uh listeners. Thank you for tuning in. Check us out athletic fortitudecom. Download the podcast. Subscribe to our youtube channel. Five stars only, baby. See you guys next week. Thanks again, alex, thanks.