The Playbook with Colin Jonov
Formerly The Athletic Fortitude Show.... Colin Jonov’s Athletic Fortitude Show has rebranded to The Playbook with Colin Jonov, evolving from a sports-centric podcast to a universal guide for mastering life’s challenges. While retaining its foundation in mindset and performance excellence, the show now expands its scope to empower everyone—athletes, entrepreneurs, professionals, and beyond—to live life to its fullest potential
The Playbook with Colin Jonov
Cooper Neimand Coach to Coaches- 4 Critical Areas For Winning That Nobody Talks About
Cooper Neimand joins us to explore the unique mental health challenges coaches face and why their mental performance impacts winning more than most realize. He argues coaches face more complex mental challenges than players because they must worry about everyone's mindset while having minimal support systems.
• Coaches face "decision overload" with responsibilities for players, staff, and administration
• The inner game (mindset, imposter syndrome, emotional management) is critical for coaching success
• Current sports structures offer abundant resources for athletes but almost none for coaches
• Four key areas for coaching mastery: inner game, locker room culture, CEO leadership, and game day behavior
• Self-awareness and emotional regulation serve as competitive advantages in coaching
• Moving on quickly from losses shows more care than dwelling in frustration
• Creating "space" for coaches through regular mental performance work is essential
• Shifting from outcome-focused "smart goals" to intention-based approaches creates more fulfillment
• Cooper's personal journey overcoming severe anxiety informs his coaching philosophy
• Success stories include coaches transforming from anxiety and imposter syndrome to championship-level performance
If you're a coach looking for support or a former coach transitioning to a new career, visit cooperneiman.com or email coachcoop@cooperneiman.com. Cooper also runs a support group for former college coaches navigating life after coaching.
What makes you say that mental health is more important for coaches than players?
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's more important for coaches than it is players. I think that it's. I mean I guess I feel like players have such. I think it's harder. I mean I guess I feel like players have such. I think it's harder. The mental game for the coaches is a lot harder than it is the mental game for the players. Players are more narrow focused on their performance and how they're doing, and they're supported by a full coaching staff, athletic trainers, performance support they have. They have everything. Um, when a coach has to worry about how everybody else is thinking and feeling and on top of their own with, with no support, um, and so I think it's coaches are kind of left on an island and players are one more supported. But there's also, you know, if a player is lacking self-confidence, it's they can still just focus on on kind of their job. And a coach, if you're lacking self-confidenceconfidence, you got to worry about your players also lacking self-confidence.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so, yeah, when you're a player, it's you only have to worry about yourself. When you are a head coach, you have to worry about not only your head self or your not only yourself. You have to worry about an entire roster.
Speaker 2:You have to worry about, you know, depending on the level boosters, you have to worry about the athletic department, you have to worry about your other coaches, and it's everybody has become your burden, as opposed to just yourself yeah, yeah, like you know it's, I've never met a player who had to think like, oh, I wonder how, where my coach is at right now like mentally, and coaches lose sleep over, I wonder what my players are thinking right now. So it's your own battle, internal battles, as well as trying to get in front of your players, do you think?
Speaker 1:that coaches are aware that they need help, or do you think it's one of those things where there's still that stigma from a coach's lens, where they can't show that they're struggling or that they need help or that they need other systems in place?
Speaker 2:Coaches know there's a problem, especially in the NCAA. They know that there's an issue as far as getting help. At the end of the day, coaches just want to win and impact lives. Getting help. At the end of the day, coaches just want to win and impact lives. So if you can convince them that this is directly impacts winning and impacting people's lives, they will be all for um. I think the biggest thing with coaches is spending time on themselves. You know there's only so much time in a day, and asking a coach to to work on themselves for an hour out of or two hours out of a month can be scary um, and so I think there is different stigma, stigmas, um around it, but more and more coaches are realizing that they impact everything um and and starting to see it as a competitive advantage have you seen that matt roll, the head coach of nebraska, has a podcast?
Speaker 1:now, I have not, so he literally just started. They just teased the trailer. They might have even released an episode, um, already. I haven't gotten a chance to listen to it, um, but he just started to, or he decided to create a podcast and start one and to talk about I forget exactly the lens of what he's talking about, but, I believe a lot of different topics and it is unheard of in general athletics for the coach to have a podcast because of said distractions. Now, putting you on the spot here a little bit, do you believe that that could be a therapeutic or a strategic way for a coach to spend their time away from sport, to spend their time away from sport.
Speaker 2:I think it's important for um for that in particular, in particular coach, to figure out what helps him be at his best. And if it's doing a podcast and that's what it is, um, I think there's nothing wrong with getting um like external processing and getting words out. I think probably also sharpens his craft as well as he's trying. I'm assuming he's putting out content to help other coaches or just around the sport. So it might be sharpening his axe at the same time and it might be his accountability to ax at the same time, um, and might be his accountability, you know, to continue to get better, kind of with that Kaizen commitment to continual improvement, um, mentality. So I don't know his overall um, you know intent behind it. Me personally, I would have struggled to do it.
Speaker 1:But, um, if it helps them then I don't see a problem with it how do you know or how do you find the things that work for you, that allow you to perform at your best, like, for example, you said, if it enables him to be better, then absolutely do it? How do you determine or find things that inherently make you a better coach?
Speaker 2:um, I think I think a lot of different things. Trial and error, um, you know, do do different things, different prep Um, I think each person is very unique, and so the work that I do, we work with coaches to figure out what works best for them, and so I think all problems are are universal, but the solutions are unique. So, I think, trial and error and knowing yourself and I mean been with yourself this whole time, and I also am a big believer in taking from the past, in your past, experiences and and learning from them and how, how are you? When you were at your best, what were you focused on? What were, what were you doing in those moments?
Speaker 1:Um, and yeah, what are your pillars to begin to help coaches with these types of issues?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there's I've worked with coaches across four different areas, um so I help them master the areas outside of the X and O's that impact winning. So that's the inner game, which is the mindset, um, the imposter syndrome, the handling your emotions. So there's the inner game. And then next is the locker room, and that's just focusing on creating a healthy environment and a healthy locker room and really creating a culture that leads itself. Creating a culture that leads itself. And then the next area is the CEO leadership, kind of just like your presence and how you show up on a daily basis and how you're delegating with staff, you know, and empowering your assistants as well. And then the last area is game day is just kind of how you're showing up your behavior. Are you helping, winning or are you hurting winning?
Speaker 1:What do you think is the most important of those pillars?
Speaker 2:Um, I don't know if there's one more important than another. I think the inner game probably is is one that's the most important, is one that's the most important because if you don't have it together yourself, your team will not have it together. You know, I think out of all those areas, that's where coaches lack the most is probably the inner game and it affects play. You know. That's why you see coaches storming off, or coaches super short-tempered, or coaches completely burnt out, coaches who struggle to leave practice at practice. A bad game in a bad game. And when a coach gives off that energy, it bleeds into a lot of different areas, areas and it affects a lot of different people. So I think the inner game I guess speaking it out loud might be most important. But you could have the perfect inner game and then be terrible with building relationships, or you could be, you know, not delegating anything with your staff and be really not the best leader. So I think they all go hand in hand.
Speaker 1:In their game 101, coach is trying to avoid burnout. They're trying to reduce that short fuse. They are trying to just get themselves in a mentally ready position to do their job. Where do you begin to start?
Speaker 2:Um, figuring out what the problem is. You know, what is it a? Is it a roadblock? Is it um, is it a like, uh, like a struggle with leadership thing? Is it self-doubt, is it imposter syndrome?
Speaker 2:And then I think really is just defining who you want to become. I think that is the number one thing is to define who you want to be. We know what you don't want to be, but let's figure out what you do, and that's really hard for a lot of people Just to ask them well, where do you wanna go? The only thing we're super clear on in life is, like significant others, like we know how we want them to look, we know how we want them to make us feel, we know how we want them to make us feel, we know how we, um, you know we want them to be a certain height, we want them to be, but when it comes to everything else, we we only know what we don't like. Um, so, really getting super crystal clear on who you want to become, um, what's getting in the way of that and, um, how to overcome it.
Speaker 1:When you help people try and figure out who they want to become, what do you have them do to begin that process of figuring out the type of person they want to be?
Speaker 2:Uh, I, I do everything through questions, so question-based leadership, and I believe all the answers are within people, Um, and so I just asked them you know what? What, uh, if I could help you achieve anything in a year, what would it be, Um, and, and then, what would the result of that be Like? What would you get from that? And it's usually calm, peace of mind, um, be more confident. So really just asking powerful questions.
Speaker 1:I love to make people reflect and ask themselves questions as well. Yeah, most people don't take the time to look inward to who they actually want to become or what that even looks like.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Frequently in sports we say you aren't what you do, you aren't your sport, right, but nobody actually takes the time to help coaches and athletes figure out. Well, who are you then? If you're not your sport, who are you? It's easy to say you know, sports is something I do. It's not who I am. But if I don't know who I am, then sports are naturally going to fill that void. Whether you're a coach player, whether you're athletic director, whether you're a CEO of a company, if you don't have a firm grasp of who you are, something will fill that void and determine your identity for you. Yeah, and I have such a strong belief in everyone that listens to my show knows this. I have such a strong belief around identity in that everything in every aspect of our life stems from who we are as people. How we respond to adversity, how we handle our emotions, how we show love, how we connect, how we perform is all rooted from who we are, and few people are out there actually helping people become, or at least identify, who they want to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's a question that when you ask, people have no clue how to answer. And just to touch on what you said about identity and wrapping it up a lot of people don't know, but leaving coaching is hard for so many people. I have a former college coaches group where we meet once a month and we're all trying to find ourselves in the real world quote unquote. And you know it is an identity thing. You, you see yourself in this and you've people know you as a coach, you know, and it's hard to get past that sometimes and we're all at a point now where we're trying to reprogram ourselves and rebuild ourselves into who we want to become.
Speaker 1:I know one thing that you had mentioned to me was you're currently in the process of reprogramming yourself and challenging your limiting beliefs. What does that look like currently for you?
Speaker 2:You know, being a solo entrepreneur is a lot different for me. I I been in a locker room my whole life. I'm a locker room guy. I love team and camaraderie and brainstorming together, and now that I'm on my own it's different. You know, it's just me and my thoughts and right now the reprogramming is just that activity doesn't equal productivity.
Speaker 2:I think slowing down is another thing. When I was in coaching, I wanted nothing but nights and weekends and I finally got nights and weekends and I didn't know what the hell to do with it and my habits were like you need to be working, you need to be working, and that I kind of. You know if I'm not working I'm not being a good person, you know, and so, and also I think the biggest thing I'm working on right now is just self-love and self-respect. That's something that I didn't realize it, but I've always been kind of harsh on myself, Super understanding and can give other people perspective, but kind of struggle with myself as far as hard on myself or where I should be, or you know different things like that. So kind of just replacing that with self-love.
Speaker 2:And that comes from journaling at night of who I want to be. It comes from meditation in the morning and, honestly, just awareness. Once you're aware of something and you start catching yourself, that just shows that you're getting closer. In basketball terms, if a player you show them over and over in film and you blow the whistle because he's not in help side and and he immediately goes I know it's me, I'm not in help side that awareness is huge and and you, that player is going to start to change. So my process is just to have intent to to love myself and practice the transition out of coaching as you described.
Speaker 1:it is very similar to the transition you know out of being a player, in terms of you're with a team, you're in the locker room, you are always doing stuff with the guys, right? A huge part of what's hard to move on from sports is that losing that locker room. Yeah, right, cause you as much as you would like to get it outside. There's very few things in the world where you have, in football world, 120 guys who are all combining different religious beliefs, ethnic beliefs, beliefs, you know, business beliefs, personal beliefs, whatever it is to all get to like a championship yeah and you don't get that in the real world yeah
Speaker 1:the other piece of that is like that adrenaline rush from coaching of in playing on game day. You cannot simulate that. It is so hard. And then, like you said, the lonely part going from that to a solopreneur is so incredibly hard to describe unless you've experienced both ends. You go from being surrounded by 120 guys going through the same things to being by yourself constantly questioning yourself, constantly trying to wonder if you're doing enough, wondering if, hey, is this the right decision to make, and having no one to really bounce it off of, other than you to make that decision and live with it.
Speaker 1:Something you said that I think is really important is that awareness piece, and that is the, I would argue, the most important thing that I help athletes develop that I work with is awareness awareness around what I need and when I need it. Awareness around why am I feeling the way that I'm feeling. Awareness around hey, I probably actually need to drink some water because I haven't had water all day, and that's one of the things I've been working on. Right Is the awareness around the different moments of your life and then how that influences your behavior day to day, to reflect again that type of person you want to become.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one last thing cause you you went on a lot of, you said a lot of goodness there. Tell me what you mean by self love.
Speaker 2:Man, um, um. I think we have a negative bias. You know, we only remember the negative things throughout the day, and so just pulling yourself back and having perspective and counting your wins is self-love, is when you're when you feel like you should be working and it's 11 o'clock in the day and you can't really get anything done and just going for a walk and not meeting yourself up enjoying a vacation, even if you feel guilty for not working. I think another word is when you become aware that an issue is, or that something like the beating yourself up, you know, meeting yourself with acceptance and like it's OK, I caught myself, we don't do that anymore, or whatever it is, because just being aware isn't enough.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I, when there's in basketball, there's always on every team there's one guy who just is in the gym nonstop and he's one of those guys. When he works out, if he misses, he's freaking out and super hard on himself and knows what he's doing wrong. He's super aware oh my, my thumb is getting in the way Like I keep pushing. Why am I keep pushing? And he's never. He doesn't get any better. He's aware, but he's not getting better because he's not giving himself grace and um, and accepting it and allowing to move on. So I don't know exactly what self-love is, I guess, but I think just a combination of grace and acceptance and perspective.
Speaker 1:My contention sometimes with the term self-love is I think it's been hijacked by a certain demographic that has turned self-love into something it shouldn't be or wasn't meant to be when it was originally created and conned. I think there's an element. I think most people I don't like to generalize, but I'm going to Most people use it as a reason to not get better and say, oh, this is just the way I am, I just have to accept I'm going to nitpick a couple of things. I just have to accept that I'm 100 pounds overweight, or I just have to accept that I have a short temper, or I just have to accept that I'm a selfish person, right, and just love myself for that. That's not what you're saying, right?
Speaker 1:Anytime I have a guest mention self-love. You're certainly not the first and you won't be the last. I always like to hear what it means to them, because I think it's different for everybody. And I think, again, going back to the awareness piece, you have to know what type of person you are and so, like for me, self-love I kind of transitioned to like just self-honesty. I need to have the awareness of when I need to. Hey, you need to put your foot on the gas pedal. You need to suck it up and get going versus okay, hey, you've done a lot. You need to give yourself some grace, take some time, go spend some time with family, and so, for me, self-love has become self-honesty is knowing what I need and when I need it and why, and then doing it, and so that is self-love in my own definition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think a lot of the coaches that I work with all need self-love.
Speaker 2:You know it's it's it's such a hard position where you're getting constant feedback from wins and losses, from players not liking you or not pleasing all the players to other people, getting hired jobs and and moving up quicker. That is. It's such a demanding job that the one thing that I think I can I really help people with is bringing perspective and just saying like no, you are doing a good job and that's not fluff. Um, you, you know, and not just like accepting being over 100 pounds overweight. You know it's a lot of the time this work gets confused with, like, just speaking in sports terms, um, like they think the mental work is is very defensive and very like there's a problem, we got to fix it, but it's way more offensive and strategies for you to be at your best, and so I think that's kind of where this world is and why people kind of are having trouble with it or opening up to it you talk about how the biggest problem in sports right now is not nil or transfer portal, it's the lack of resources for coaches.
Speaker 1:Yeah and uh. I would love to hear more about that yeah, I mean it's right now.
Speaker 2:our coaches are not set up for success. Everything is built around the student athlete experience, which is super important. You know, we student athletes come first, but there's nothing for the people that support them. And so we've all had coaches who were complete assholes and that affects your student athlete experience who were complete assholes and that affects your student athlete experience. And so, and also just thinking about it, you know players are at a program now for one to two years max, and so pouring into their mental wellbeing or not wellbeing, but their mental performance and then they're going to leave.
Speaker 2:You know, rather than equipping a coach who can deal with all different types of people, it's a better return on investment and also players. I know, with the extra year for COVID at max, you could stay in college for like six years. You know we got coaches in here for 30. You know, so, like we got to take care of the people who are are running this game. Um, and I'm not saying student athletes, mental health isn't as important or their performances, and I'm saying this will help it even more um, equipped in these coaches I tend to find myself and this is how I know I'm in the middle between like pro coach, pro player or like pro organization.
Speaker 1:pro player is because if you ask most players that I work with or speak to, they would say I'm pro coach, pro organization. If you ask coaches or organizations that I've spoken to or work with, they would tell me I'm more pro player, and so I find myself very much in the middle. In terms of the give and take, I firmly agree that there's not enough resources for coaches. They are asked to do an infinite number of things.
Speaker 2:They just happen to know the X's and O's of basketball or football, or name your sport, and then is thrust upon them all this responsibility because they just happen to be really good at coaching. And so where do we begin to provide the solutions for coaches, for what they need? I think, just creating space for them. You know, coaches are going 24-7. There's no such thing as an offseason. You know, when we made the NCAA tournament, we were behind in recruiting. You know, we made it to the Final Four, we were behind in recruiting because everybody else could start bringing their kids on campus. And so as soon as we lost, we were bringing kids on campus. And so as soon as we lost, we were bringing kids on campus. You know and you know. So there's, there's no space.
Speaker 2:I think the the structure of it all is is messed up and then just space to talk to somebody confidentially. Um, right now coaches can't go to an admin. Um, because they don't trust them. You know it's hard to go to a boss who can fire you and say I'm really struggling with my like thinking I can lead this group. You know, I I don't know if I can do it, or the different fears. You can't go to your admin for that.
Speaker 2:As a head coach, you can't really go to your assistants um for that, because you want to portray confidence and um, so there's nowhere to turn. And they turn to spouses which, um are already sacrificing enough, you know. So I, I believe, just creating the space for coaches from um changing up the risk, like, like everything, you know, the off season is harder than the regular season sometimes, um, especially in today's day and age, um, and I don't think it's, it's a check in the box thing. It's not bring all your coaches in and let's put a PowerPoint up. It's sitting down with your coaches, letting them process internally, externally, let them breathe for a second and then create winning strategies to go out there and win.
Speaker 1:So when you say create space for the coaches, could you tell me a little bit more about what you mean by creating space?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think every coach should have a coach. I think each school should have somebody on staff that the coaches can go to. That's specifically for the coaches. Like you said, coaches have done their 10,000 hours in their individual sport but they haven't done their 10,000 hours when a when a kid's parent passed away in a car crash or when, um, there's petty drama on their team, or when your assistant coaches aren't clashing, or when you're struggling to lead a kid who, um, is dealing with trauma.
Speaker 2:You know there's coaches get pulled in so many different ways and they have decision overload. They're on an island and so literally an hour to just talk with somebody of what's going on. You know, I tried to go to therapy while I was coaching and it was hard because the first 30 minutes I was explaining what a recruiting period is. You know it's, and so you waste a lot of time and they don't understand why you have to be on the phone at five o'clock and answer on a Friday night and answer a big time recruit or how you don't have your own schedule and you can't just take a Saturday off. So really putting people to support these coaches and have someone in position that's only focused on the coaches.
Speaker 1:So, when you left college on medical leave due to your mental health challenges, how have you used that experience to now help coaches who may be going through something similar or on the path to heading to where you got?
Speaker 2:Um. So when I, when I left I left college on medical leave I was just a regular student, um, and I thought I was dying. This was before um, instagram and and the awareness of of anxiety. Um, I was having random panic attacks. I didn't know what was happening, so I thought I was dying. So um went home, left school on medical leave, um met with a therapist, got on some medication, really learned how powerful the brain was in that moment and trained hard to get back. You know I was afraid to go into stores by myself. I was afraid to sleep in my own bed. You know I was afraid to be away from people. Um, I was afraid I was going to have another panic attack and I didn't know when it was coming. So I was in constant panic, um, and so I did a bunch of different things to get back on on track and finally built the courage to go back to school. Um, small wins I ate in the calves just kept stacking days. Um went to class Um and the biggest thing I learned from that was one, how helpful people actually are if you open up, and then two, how how everybody's going through their own stuff and everybody would come to me.
Speaker 2:I became like a spokesperson for anxiety and like, hey, I go through this too. Like, how did you do this, how did you do that, um, and so I really started making my mess, my message, and it just started helping people, just being open about it. So it taught me about, like, how I I don't need to bottle anything in um, I can open it up. And I think another thing that really helped me was the perspective shift that it's like I'm allowed to have a problem. You know, I was like I wasn't too blessed to have a problem. I had both parents. I was, I was going to school for free, I had friends who weren't going to school, whose life was going in a different direction, and I didn't think I was like my life is going too well to have a problem. And that was the biggest shift that kind of changed everything around. I left and my dad was like you're just going to have to work at this, like you do basketball, and put in the work, put in the reps, and you'll be back.
Speaker 2:Um, as far as how's, that helped me with other coaches? I think it helps me with other people, cause I never I don't judge people anymore, um, or I just have a better understanding for people. Um, I know everybody's going through stuff. I don't take anything anybody does personal Um, you know it's it's more of a reflection of what's going on with somebody else and I just like to share my story. You know, I've I know what it's like to sit in your head for all day and just ruminate and think about what's going to go wrong or what if this, what if that?
Speaker 2:I know how taxing it is. I know how lonely that is, um, so when I came back, I just wanted to make a pact to make sure no one else is goes through something alone. Um, and then that helped me tremendously as a coach. You know, I was the locker room guy. Just because guys came to me they could talk. Um, they knew it wasn't about basketball with me, it was about them as people. Um, and so that helped me tremendously as a coach and it still helps me now. Help coaches because, um, I know what it's like. I know what it's like to be in your head and not think you're working hard enough and then, um, want, want to do a good job and prove yourself and move up the ladder and then, while you're doing all that and go against actual opponents. You know, so um, I think it just gives me the um empathy to work with people.
Speaker 1:What did you determine was the root cause of the anxiety that you were having? What did you determine was the root?
Speaker 2:cause of the anxiety that you were having. Man, I'm still trying to figure that out. I think I've done a lot of deep work. I've done some emdr, um, I've done some different types of therapy. I think it was a spiral that I just wasn't catching and it was just habits. I was leaning towards anxiety for um, out of habit, you know, like I was, I was, um, I yeah, I was just turning to anxiety One.
Speaker 2:I think it might've came from an area of not being heard as a child and wanting to be heard, and so my body would get physically sick and I would. I would get attention then. So it might be that it could have been a chemical imbalance. Um, my family is also all, all anxious. You know, I have bipolar in the family, um, I have, uh, family members who are very deep thinkers, um, so it is, it's kind of passed down through blood, but I'm I'm stopping it here, um, and stopping it here, um, and and really focusing on um, you know, creating a life to when I have my own kids that it's um we're passing down genes that will set them up to be successful.
Speaker 1:What helped you? The?
Speaker 2:most overcome the severe anxiety that you had. Um, acceptanceance and understanding what anxiety is and why it's happening and that it came from it's a natural response of survival. You know, cavemen were anxious or else they would die. You know, if a caveman almost got bitten by a snake, he's not just going to be super positive about it and just walk around like nothing happened. He would be on edge, um, and so, I think, understanding that that is just in our um, in our blood and um, yeah, I think that was a huge shift. And then also, just, it's okay to be anxious, like, so what? You're anxious? You know it's a feeling, you know it's it's it's not the end of the world.
Speaker 2:Um, I think realizing that it's all a story and then you could rewrite your story, helped me a lot too. But it's all a story and then you could rewrite your story Helped me a lot too. You know, if a lot of it was I'm not going to be this I'm like, let's say, this podcast, like all this podcast is going to be terrible. Colin's going to hate me, never text me again, this isn't going to go anywhere, or this podcast is going to be amazing. You know, I'm going to get a $2 million deal. After this, the Giants are going to hire me to work with their coaches. I'm going to get an NBA deal Like neither one, is true, but you could follow whichever one serves you, you know, and so once I realized that I could flip the squirt my own, it's been game-changing, I would say.
Speaker 1:One of the hardest things I have found in working with athletes more so in moments of loss is teaching that acceptance piece that you don't have to like something but you have to accept it. And fighting through that wall that you can't change isn't going to serve you. How did you get to the point where you became excellent at acceptance?
Speaker 2:Over time. I would say I mean, I hate losing too, don't get me wrong, but I'm also okay. What's next, next play mentality. I think that is huge. I think I'm for efficiency and productivity. And sitting and just beating yourself up of being mad, I think. I think I realize I doing that doesn't show that I care. Um, actually moving on shows that I care, and I think a lot of athletes and even coaches just think that they have to be super pissed off and hold on to things to show that they care, and I don't think that's necessarily true. I think moving on is actually more productive and will get you closer to what you want.
Speaker 1:I love that perspective switch show. It shows you care more to figure out what's next or the next step. I've never looked at it that way.
Speaker 2:I'm in the rough, you know, like that was a terrible shot. This, this thing is over, rather than just being like all right, let's go play from there. You know, I heard something that in basketball, if a whole team bought in the next play mentality that would save themselves or that would spot themselves 10 points and I couldn't agree more it probably would do more. You know, imagine if everybody on your football team was able to put the last play behind them. You know, and that's the same with a loss. You know I want to take our learns from the loss. I don't ever want to lose again, but just sitting there beating yourself up isn't going to help you. Win the next game isn't going to help you win the next game.
Speaker 2:Now, I know you've coached four NBA players.
Speaker 1:Was that a talent, a skill advantage that they had, or did they have some of these qualities that you're talking about now that have helped them excel at the next level, or did you have to teach them those things?
Speaker 2:um. So I worked with all of them in high school. I was at a really good high school um, but they definitely I mean they definitely were god gifted um. You know, being 6, 11 and being able to do whatever you want with a basketball helps, um, or being able to shoot from half court. But I think what they all had in common was they were super hungry to get better um, and they didn't dwell in their losses that much. Honestly, like our coach was a former pro, he brought in a bunch of pros and they would beat up our guys all summer and our guys were delusional and pissed off Like I shouldn't be getting killed, but they kept coming and kept wanting to get better and then being a sponge. So I think what helped them was situation. They got super found by somebody who didn't need them as players. They were in a situation where they were loved and cared about as people. They had all the resources and they were gifted as well.
Speaker 1:You said that they were getting beat and they would just keep coming back. I think that there's this balance that needs to happen with athletes and they need to be challenged, they need to experience failure they can't just win all the time, because eventually they won't just win all the time and they need to know how to respond to that people with failure, because it will knock them down to a place where it's too hard or they won't come back from it. Where have you found that balance in exposing guys to those challenges and failures? To show hey, there's levels to this game. Yeah, you can get here, but you need to see what here looks like yeah, I think it's all about the culture that you create as a coach.
Speaker 2:You know, if you have a culture that iron sharpens iron, um, and you let the guys compete and that's the norm, um, and winning and losing comes from competing, you know it just happens and you compete every day. They just get used to competing and used to those feelings. I think you also pull guys aside. You know assistant coaches are super important to pull guys aside. I think you also empower the older guys and just be like hey, you remember when you were a freshman. You know homeboy over there struggling a little bit, why don't you go talk to him? Or what do you think he needs? Homeboy over there struggling a little bit, why don't you go talk to him? Or what do you think he needs, um? And or telling them a story. But like, look, I know you hate where you're at right now, young puppy, but that guy that that's killing you right now, you know he was in your shoes. Um, and consistent feedback of of what you're doing right, what you're doing wrong and that you're doing a good job is huge, but we're big components.
Speaker 2:I'm not shying away from competition, you know. I think competition is super healthy. You know, when I was at LMU, we had the number one team in the country. You know, when I was at LMU, we had the number one team in the country. We were on a 32-game winning streak and we had 11 guys that could go and only six could play. You know, we're a big family, so I really think it's the environment that you create. You know, just beating the heck out of your second group isn't going to help, you know. But I think another thing that I think is huge is just contact with individual players. See what's going on in their mind players. See what's going on in their mind, um, you know, you notice a guy who's getting frustrated or beat up or discouraged. Pull them aside, ask them what's going on, um, and just get a lot from a conversation can you challenge coaches in this way, similar how you challenge these young guys in practice?
Speaker 1:how do you challenge a coach to give them a level of competition or challenge that they may need?
Speaker 2:yeah, you know, I've had coaches who struggled um late game and they weren't doing much situational stuff in practice. So you you put them through different um situations. You know down five, two. So, being used to different situations, a lot of the time coaches struggle with trust and delegating. So let one of your assistants run a drill and see what happens. See if you, like you guys, survived the practice. You guys survived the practice.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, let's um post game. Let's see what it's like not sitting in the shower and just acting like the world's coming to an end. You know, let's take a breath before we dive into film. So for coaches it's more like off the court stuff. Um, you know setting routines, post-practice routines um bedtime routines, morning routines, um, as well as flip the switch. Um, as far as the coaching thing, I think you know every time you put your hand on the door before you walk into film, if you check in with yourself um like who am I walking into this room? I think helps a lot and checks coaches um watching yourself on film, because the players do for sure. You know coaches with bad body languages like bad body languages I guess shows up in film. Um, and when a player goes back and watches the game. They're watching your body language too, especially in basketball. Um cause the camera. Um shows it all.
Speaker 1:What are some of your favorite success stories that you've had helping coaches?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one would be. I I came with a uh, each situation is so unique. But I came with the softball coach who she was. It was was like her 13th year coaching. Every year in the game she felt more and more stress, um, and she felt less and less qualified um, and her team was below 500. They were midway through the year and, um, they were panicking late game. And I just got, we got really deep and it turned out she was panicking late game and it was bleeding on to her players, um, and so we met every week and put some things in place of, because in fall ball she was elite, you know. She was super confident, everything was was really good and she was coaching out of a place of love and calm there. And then she was.
Speaker 2:When the season came, she was very focused on fear of losing and and messing up and things falling apart, which is very easy as a head coach to spiral. So we set a time, an hour a week for her. She started going to yoga, she started dancing on the third baseline um. She started empowering her players, because the best teams coach themselves um, and she shifted a lot of weight that she had on herself. Um, to the players. You know, empowering players, not just stating the obvious of we need to do this, we need to do that. It's what do you guys think we need to do? How can we be better at playing on the road? You know, letting, empowering them, asking questions to help them have the answers. You know, rather than trying to figure out a pitcher and why she's doing bad, ask the pitcher what's going on and how she can help. And that shifted a lot of weight that she was carrying. They ended up making the NCAA tournament. They went on like a 20-game win streak, made the NCAA tournament and then the year after they were the fastest team to 30 wins and she actually got to a point where she wasn't used to winning.
Speaker 2:And what comes with winning? Because winning comes winning. You have to fight human nature a lot more than you think. You know complacency, jealousy. You get everybody's best shot. There's fears when you're winning. You know, I was at a school where I didn't lose a home game for four years. There's a lot of fear when you're, when you win that much.
Speaker 2:Um, and then I think another one would be uh, I had a young coach who was going through imposter syndrome. Um, a golf coach, and took over for a legend that he worked for and it was kind of that legends baby that he was taking on and he didn't want to mess it up. He also felt like he needed to prove himself. He was moving over a chair and he wanted to create separation between him and his his players. He moved from the relationship coach to the guy making the decisions him and his players. He moved from the relationship coach to the guy making the decisions.
Speaker 2:He was completely overwhelmed and so just breaking down his focus and prioritizing you know what his job is which he came up with is just to do what's best for the team and put us in position to win, as well as produce men and pros, and just shifting to that focus every day took so much pressure off of him.
Speaker 2:He had two all-americans that were clashing um. One was a like a kobe, I'm gonna outwork everybody, and the other was kind of just I'm gonna show up, and they were clashing um, and he sided with one of them more than the other, but he didn't know how to handle it, and so we created a discussion to get these guys on the same page, and it was just like two simple questions of what do you guys want this year and what will get in the way, and that led to tears and them really opening up and really empowering the players. And he ended up making the NCAA tournament for both the women and the men's golf team, which is very hard to do, and then his men's team went all the way to match play and he was national coach of the year or candidate, so he went from imposter syndrome to one of the best coaches in the country.
Speaker 1:How many of the coaches that you work with actually acknowledge the joy that they have from coaching?
Speaker 2:None. When they start, the focus is what's going wrong, how pulled left and right they are. What could go wrong trying to get in front of fires? You know it's it's. It's such a complex job where you wake up you think about 30 other people before yourself you. You're trying to practice, practice, plan, and then you got a kid getting kicked out of the english department for cheating on a test. You got. You got the donor who wants to just go. Look at the locker room. You're just getting pulled in so many different directions and you're exhausted and so people are focused on on winning and keeping their jobs.
Speaker 1:I asked the question to Clint Hurdle, former Pittsburgh Pirates manager. He currently is a bench coach I believe he's the bench coach for the Colorado Rockies but I asked him on his time in Pittsburgh. I was like did you appreciate everything that you did? The Pittsburgh Pirates have had three winning seasons over the last 25 years. Have had three winning seasons over the last 25 years. I think three winning seasons, maybe four, but they made the playoffs three times under his tutelage.
Speaker 1:And he was like you know, colin, he's like in those moments no, he was like I did not appreciate it. He's like I never took time to reflect, understand what we were doing. He was like when never took time to reflect, to understand what we were doing. He was like when you're in those moments, you are just focused on one thing and that's to try and win. He's like, but as I left and as I reflect and I run into Pittsburgh people and they tell me how much or how important those teams were to them, he's like I get the chance to appreciate it now. He's like but in those moments I don't. Yeah, it's just such a powerful thing that sticks out to me is there's all the coaches, all the teams in the world probably less than one percent actually in the moment are joyful for their experiences.
Speaker 2:it's kind of why I started what I was doing, what I am doing, because coaches are heroes. You know, coaches impact so many people's lives and coaches are dreamers too. Like coaches are living their dreams every day. They're wearing sweats to work, they're being around a bunch of like kids who they can impact, a bunch of like kids who they can impact. You know they're getting paid to to coach a sport they love and to not enjoy that, I think, is wrong, um, and I think you can do both. You know it's it. Just it might not be common, but you can make it, make it happen you have mentioned in the past that smart goals set people up for failure.
Speaker 1:Could you tell me why?
Speaker 2:I think smart goals are important. You know, to have measurable goals, but every smart goal that I've wanted to get like people are so good at getting their smart goals you know I wanted to be a college coach. I was. I wanted to win at the highest level there. I did and, but I didn't work on the things that I I thought were going to um, that I thought I was going to feel.
Speaker 2:You know, if, if me and you climb a mountain and both of our goal is to get to the top, but you also set intention. You know I'm going to get to the top and I'm going to um, soak in everything and and really enjoy the experience, and mine is just to get to the top. Our, our experiences are going to be totally different. You know we're both going to get there. I'm going to be hungry halfway through, complaining like man, my legs are tired, how much more we got. While you're sitting there like man, this breeze feels nice. You know I'm going to stop and get a snack, you know, and so you just setting intention creates an experience that I didn't have. And we are so good at getting our goals and I feel just like smart goals, um, once you get there. You expected it, you know. So it's like, yeah, you should have got there. You set your mind to it.
Speaker 2:If you didn't get there, you shame yourself, um, and there's not really like once you get there. That's why there's like a huge rate I don't know the number, I'm not even gonna make it up, but just the amount of depression that comes after coaches who win um championships. It's because they did everything and they, they got there and it's it's now what they, you know. So I think you have to be super. If I had to do it all over again from the beginning, I would want to be super. If I had to do it all over again from the beginning, I would want to be a college basketball coach, while being a good like set intention. You know, I want to experience peace, joy and fulfillment, while setting boundaries and helping people reach their dreams, you know, and keeping it very broad. But also you could accomplish so much through that.
Speaker 1:I love the living with intention and adding intentionality and those measuring sticks and milestones that are outside just the wins and loss column, because I do believe that is what sports and life is all about experiencing those moments, good and bad, allowing yourself to experience the full range of emotions that a human can have. We think that emotions are bugs, but in reality they're features. Right, they're there to serve a purpose, they're there to tell you things, both good or bad and I'm also not a big believer in labeling things as good or bad, like they just are. And then we do get to choose, or we get the choice to assign them meaning. Right, we experienced this. Okay, understand that, give it meaning and understand how that can serve you, and it's been a lot of goodness. Today, that intentionality piece and choosing you know that analogy, I just think was one of the more powerful things that we've discussed today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think it's um, we're so good at putting our head down and going to get it, you know, but then we lose track of what matters to us and then that creates out of alignment and that creates, um frustration and emotions that we're not comfortable with and can lead to you leaving a profession or not being good in your profession.
Speaker 1:Well, hey, I appreciate you, my friend, coming on today. Cooper, if there's anything that you're working on, anything that you want to promote, or if people want to reach out to you, please take the next couple minutes to tell us what's going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah so I'm still looking for coaches to work with. This year I got a few more spots left, so I help coaches master the areas outside the X's and O's. That impact winning and it's been game changer for so many coaches. And you can go to my website at cooperneimancom and you can follow me on Twitter at coachcoopcom. And I also have a former coaches connect group for former college coaches who got out the game and trying to figure out life.
Speaker 2:You know, coaching is a fraternity and when you leave the profession the phone stops ringing. It's a very confusing time, you know, to try to find your value and what's next, and I created a base and a village for those people. You know, when you get out of coaching, we got salespeople, we got teachers, we got everything and we can connect you with whoever you need to talk to and just continue the fraternity. You know when you leave coaching college, you shouldn't leave the fraternity. You know when you leave coaching college, you shouldn't leave the fraternity. So, and then you guys can email me at coach coop, at Cooper Neimancom, or text me at 301-802-9654. My passion is coaches. They were the most important people in my life and the work that coaches do. They could use a little support too.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you, brother. Thank you for coming on Listeners, thank you for tuning in. Tune in next week. Download the pod Subscribe to our YouTube channel. Check us out at athleticfortitudecom. Five stars only, baby. See you guys next week. Thanks man, all right man.