Iowa Hawkeye Max Murin Reveals The M3 Method: 3 Powerful Steps To Turn Any Setback Into Success

Max Murin shares powerful mental frameworks for athletes and anyone facing challenges, including his personal "M3 Method" - Man up, Make adjustments, Move forward.

• Weight cutting for wrestling creates unique mental and physical challenges that require extreme discipline
• The pre-competition routine is critical but varies significantly between sports like wrestling and football
• Nervousness can be reframed as excitement by recognizing the similar physiological responses
• What you focus on is the life you get - negative thoughts create negative outcomes, positive focus drives success
• The best performers balance meticulous preparation with the ability to turn off analytical thinking during competition
• Clarity equals power - understanding exactly what you need to do creates confidence
• Good relationships provide a foundation that helps maintain perspective during competitive challenges
• The M3 Method provides a three-step approach to handling any setback in sports or life
• Decisions aren't inherently good or bad - their value emerges over time through consequences

Find Max at Mission Athletics in Iowa City or check out his Airbnb if you're visiting the area.

Chapters

• 0:00 College Football Nostalgia
• 6:40 The Psychology of Weight Cutting
• 13:36 Managing Energy on Competition Day
• 21:46 Reframing Negative Thoughts
• 33:16 The M3 Method: Mental Resilience
• 53:45 Wrestling With Regrets and Moving Forward

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

No, that's like opening weekend for college football is always the most challenging for me. It's for whatever reason I miss it the most week one and then once like the games are going, I'm like fine, but I get that serious nostalgia week one of college football.

Speaker 2: 0:19

But it's like that's when it's like the most hype, like all the students just moving to campus it's been a long time since it, since you had college football. It's when it's like the most, like it's the anticipation man.

Speaker 1: 0:31

Do you still get that with wrestling or, since you're still involved, not as much?

Speaker 2: 0:36

Uh, when, obviously like the big matches, like obviously when I'm watching them, I'd be like like I'm watching them, I'd be like I'm excited to actually watch the matches because when I wrestled I didn't watch the matches but it's definitely like obviously you still want to be out there. I don't care how old you are. If you say that you don't want to be out there, still, you're lying. You know what I mean. I'll get to the big matches and then like nationals Nationals, yeah, and other than that matches and then like nationals, yeah and other than that I don't really think about too much.

Speaker 1: 1:09

Did you get to watch like when you because that was something mike always said was he was like I couldn't watch my teammates, at least before his match, because he didn't want to ride the emotional wave. Is that something that's unique to him or is that like an every wrestler type thing?

Speaker 2: 1:20

uh, I mean, I think it's most guys can't watch it, but like I think it's like Like Jacob Warner. He would get like Super fired up and be like watching the Like his teammates be yelling and stuff. I could never do that and I was always like either the third or fourth Match usually. So it's pretty easy For me because I could watch the matches afterwards. But but if they like so they would draw, so like then they just pick a random weight class to start at. That's whenever it sucks. So if you're like the last match, I wouldn't watch any of the matches and then I just wait around to wrestle. But you don't get like. I heard, like someone said this and it's actually so true is you only have like so much battery, right?

Speaker 1: 2:02

And it's like every time, like like your emotions are going up and down, you stress, right, you take a little bit of the battery off, a little bit of the battery, and then all of a sudden it's time to rest when you are emotionally drained, before you even go out there, right, you know as a football player I used to always say and I was actually talking about this with kaylee's dad um saturday was, I actually did not like playing night games, I liked noon kickoff because my routine was so quick that by noon like I was just ready to go, whereas you know even three, 30 kickoffs or seven or 8 PM kickoffs.

Speaker 1: 2:38

You have to manage those emotions significantly stricter, like I can't allow myself to go up and down because then by kickoff I'm exhausted, I'm yawning, and that is such an under rate or under discussed component of competing. Is that element of hey, you have to kind of manage your emotions on game day or else you will burn your tank early with all that adrenaline yeah, usually I mean same thing with us, like the thing that's different with wrestling, though, is like the cutting weight aspect.

Speaker 2: 3:08

So like, like you're gonna get up like on a say what matches at 8 pm where you like you might sleep in a little bit, but you don't sleep great because it's because you're nervous anyways. And then you gotta work out in the morning and like for a weight cut and you gotta eat and you gotta chill and you gotta work out in the morning for a weight cut, and you got to eat and you got to chill and you got to work out. So you're working out like twice before your even match starts, right. So that's where it's like it's different from football, because I feel like football is longer, right. Like I feel like you guys, like you guys have to be there a certain time and you stay there for a long time.

Speaker 2: 3:41

Wrestling is not like that. But you got to constantly wake up, break your sweat, get working out. Now you go back and chill at your apartment or hotel. If it's an only match, then you have to get back up, work out again, break your sweat, make weight and you chill. You got to give it a free match again. It's a lot. I remember you work out so much for a night match, like you have to work out the night before, you have to work out the morning of then right before you, you weigh in and then you gotta warm up and you gotta wrestle, so it just, it just gets a lot when do you have to like?

Speaker 1: 4:18

what's the time space between when you make weight and when you compete?

Speaker 2: 4:22

so it's two hours now. It used to be one hour whenever, like, michael and I were in college in that hour.

Speaker 1: 4:28

Do you like? What do you do? Do you try and eat as much as you can like? What the heck is the routine between weigh-in and compete time?

Speaker 2: 4:36

yeah, so it's literally everybody is so different. Like for me, I didn't make adjustments, but I I'll drink like a pound or a like probably eight, eight bottles of water, so it's like I'll drink like eight pounds of water and then I'll uh, I'll eat like very minimal, like I'll eat like some fruit and maybe like some, like like a little bowl, like super cereal or something like that. But yeah, I don't eat much, I'm just pounding like electrolytes and water, which is crazy. What's crazy? Like think about this what I always said if you're not a wrestler and you go to a wrestling tournament and you see like the whole, like weigh-in into the post-weigh-in, you'd be like what the heck is going on? Like literally number one, number one.

Speaker 2: 5:24

It's like, if it's a tournament, you have like 500 dudes just all standing there in their underwear, like super close together, just sitting in a line, and you're standing there. And then, literally, you're standing there a bunch of half-naked guys who look super, super sucked out and they're just standing there super close to each other because they have to pack everyone in and they're just waiting. And then, like the guy's going to wrestle, so you're not talking to him either, so you're sitting there waiting to weigh in half an hour I mean literally with only your underwear on, and then you weigh in. And as soon as you weigh in, it's like you pounding as much water as humanly possible without trying to like feel horrible before the match. So you're trying to make up for all, like all the depleted nutrients that you had, like the last couple days, within like an hour. So I don't know, it's just a.

Speaker 1: 6:22

It's a crazy experience, man I could not be convinced that cutting that much weight to be heavier at a smaller weight is actually beneficial, like yeah explain, to explain it to me definitely is.

Speaker 2: 6:36

Just because, like, if you wrestle someone, if you're not cutting weight, especially in college, and you're wrestling someone who is like significantly bigger, you feel it right. It feels like you're wrestling someone who is significantly bigger, you feel it right. It feels like you're not in wrestling. They get the same weight class and a lot of guys can get away with it and stuff, but it's definitely a tactical advantage, right?

Speaker 1: 6:55

What is the trade-off? At what weight do you feel is cutting the appropriate amount of weight to have the best advantage, while maintaining strength?

Speaker 2: 7:04

So I think it depends on everyone. But like I'd say, if you're, if you're like 10 pounds over the beginning of the week, that's probably like a good, a good amount. So like you're 10 pounds over the beginning of the week and you kind of end up getting down, probably pretty good, and you probably your body doesn't like, you don't feel as drained and stuff, stuff, but you're cutting like 20 pounds in the beginning of the week, right, that's whenever it's kind of like your performance is taking a hit. So it's not even like it's stupid, it's nothing worth cutting weight, but uh well, how much did you cut?

Speaker 2: 7:35

so my last couple years I did it pretty well. Uh, I cut about like 10 pounds, like, being the week I'd be 10, 11, 12 or whatever. And then I'd just easily like get down to 149. But the three years before that I was resting 141 and I was an absolute idiot. Like I was an absolute idiot and this is okay.

Speaker 2: 8:00

I'll give your brother-in-law credit, cameron. He put me on the right path like nutrition and sleeping and stuff. Because before that man, I'd get to like I'd make weight. So, number one, I'd be like 20 pounds over the beginning of the week, which is a ton of weight. I'm not a mathematician, but 20 pounds of 141 is a large portion of your weight. I'm not a mathematician, but 20 pounds of 141 is a large portion of your weight. And then so I would start at like 160 something, and then I'd get the like I'd cut down a little bit, cut down a little bit, and then the last day I'd be 10 pounds over. So a day before I wrestled I'd be 10 pounds over.

Speaker 2: 8:38

So I had this workout where it was just like I just call it a get tough workout, where I would lose five pounds wrestling and then I would lose about four more pounds cardio and then I'd just sit there for—I'd just sweat the extra pound off. It was ridiculous, man. I remember at one point my weight cut was so bad that I was about to go wrestle with a guy who was top five in the country. I was having a hard—I was trying to do fast feet. You know fast feet where you get your your feet moving. My feet felt like I had bricks on my feet, like I literally had my feet were not moving, so like that's whenever. It's like I went out there and I lost the match and I have, I remember being like it's not like if you're gonna wrestle bad, it's not worth cutting weight right, but if you can get away with like still feeling good and being bigger than the guy, then obviously it's worth it.

Speaker 1: 9:26

Talk to me about the mental discipline it takes to not eat when you're trying to cut 10 pounds in a day.

Speaker 2: 9:34

Yeah, so the order you get like you'd never not eat Like in college, at least for like the Iowa guys like we always ate, right, you just eat like smaller portions. The toughest part was like being thirsty the night before. So like like it's so hard to explain when you talk to any wrestler like you can't sleep because you're so thirsty and you can't drink right, you can't drink, like you can't drink water, so you're sitting there up at night and your mouth is super dry. You can't fall asleep and you're just sitting there and like that's when it's tough, like you just want to go to the sink and just like put your mouth under the sink but you can't.

Speaker 2: 10:14

But I have a funny story about that. So I'd always roommate with I'd always room with Cameron on the away trips and we were at Nationals. Right, uh, we're at nationals. Right, we're at nationals, we both win, like in the round of. So we that we both win our first two rounds. So we have the quarterfinals the next morning and we're both, we both can't sleep because, number one, at nationals, you're so nervous, and number two, you can't wait, so I can't, you can't sleep because you're nervous and like you're so thirsty, you like physically can't sleep and like I'm flopping around.

Speaker 2: 10:50

It's like 3 am. We have to get up at like6 am. It's 3 am. I'm not sleeping at all. I hear him flopping around, he's not sleeping at all. And I go hey, you up.

Speaker 2: 11:01

And he's like yep, and we just started talking, like we're about to wrestle the national quarterfinals in about five hours, six hours, and we're sitting there talking and we start talking. I start telling stories and I'm like do you remember every girl you've ever liked in your whole entire life? And he's like I don't know, and we started going through. I was like in kindergarten, kindergarten, I had a crush on her in first grade. We even like we're about to wrestle the national quarterfinals in like a couple hours. That's some of the biggest matches of our life. We're at nationals and we're literally just go like we're going through every single grade, every girl we've ever liked, through, like the. It was just, it was unbelievable. But it's funny just because, like you can't sleep, so like once you like are and stuff, then it's easier, cause you're like, hey, you know what? I can't sleep, no one else can sleep, like it's not a big deal. You kind of laugh about it and then, like you start doing stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 11:54

I was gonna be. My question was does the fact that you know you're not sleeping way on you as you're about to compete because of concern of lack of rest or being feeling unprepared because you didn't get the proper sleep?

Speaker 2: 12:06

yeah, it definitely does. When you're, uh, like when I, when I was younger, I'd freak out. But when you get older, like by the time I hit like my last couple years, it's like I'm not gonna sleep. I know I'm gonna be tired, like it's not a big deal, but I think it goes back to like the like me, I try to prepare myself in every way.

Speaker 2: 12:26

I'm a big journaler and before I'd wrestle I would journal everything and a big thing would be like okay, this is how I'm probably going to feel. I'm probably not going to feel great because I'm cutting weight and I'm going to be tired because I'm not going to be able to sleep. And once I realize that, then it's like oh, it's just, it's just like this isn't just the way it is, this is what I have to deal with, right, instead of being like, oh my god, I could be in shock by it, you know, I mean it's like, once you, once you're a veteran, it gets easier and you just know, like I'm sure you guys would like this too where it's like for night games, you're like'm probably going to be a little bit like like more tired Right. Like like your coach is probably telling you that too, like hey, like try to maintain your energy, but you still realize, like hey, I'm probably still going to be tired, and when you know it it's easier to like, deal with.

Speaker 1: 13:16

My big thing, too, was I always would reframe it as like, hey, one bad night of sleep is not going to erase the previous month's years of like dedicated effort, like, just because I'm tired today, like that's not going to override everything I've done to prepare up to this point. And a study that I wish I knew when I competed was it was on the show before, but they tested and there was no correlation to how you felt on competition day and how your performance actually was. Yeah, didn't matter how you felt physically. All that mattered really was everything leading up to that, and to me, that's something I wish I knew when I competed, so I could just let it go regardless of how I felt that day, whether I was sick, whether I didn't sleep, whether I had a test I was worrying about and I could just focus on. Everything I've done up to that point is going to prepare me for today.

Speaker 2: 14:13

Yeah, I think a big thing too is like the sleep is not the thing that's bothering you, it's the stress and worry that you're causing yourself about not getting sleep, you know, I mean like it's like it's not like the, the bad sleep or like being sick or whatever, but like you start stressing yourself out enough and you're like, oh, like I'm not gonna be able to play as good, I'm not gonna be as players good, and then like that's what makes you not play as good.

Speaker 2: 14:42

It's not like the lack of sleep, right, and and like you talk about, it's like reframing your mind, right, and that's what it was. Like you, the way you talk to yourself, is like the biggest thing. So, if you like that study, I think it's true, right, I believe it, but that study could be 100 false and I'm like extremely convinced that if I saw that study and I thought it was true, then I used used to start telling my oh, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, right, and then eventually it doesn't matter, but it's all about how you, how you talk to yourself.

Speaker 1: 15:12

It's so true. What you said, though, it's not the lack of sleep, it's the focusing on the lack of sleep, and so much I'm not even just as you swat your fly, it's not even just in that, but in so much of life, like you get what you focus on, you get the life that you focus on, you get the energy that you focus on. If I'm constantly focusing on the bad, I get the bad. If I'm constantly focusing on the good, I'm going to get the good, and that is such a hard concept to adopt. It's easy to say hard to live and adopt. When do you think your maturation point was where you could start adopting the mindset you just talked about?

Speaker 2: 15:58

You know. So this is completely off topic, but I'm going to. I'm going to relate it. I'm going to relate it back to the end. But I just told this story. I heard this story a gonna, I'm gonna relate it. I'm gonna relate back the end. But I just heard the story I heard a couple years ago and it's amazing. But then I started looking back at my like, my career, my sports career. I'm like, oh, that's so true. And so there's this guy, right, I don't know if you ever heard the story, but it's a great story.

Speaker 2: 16:22

There's this guy. He was in his senior year of high school, was like a bad student, did not like school, didn't want to go to college, right. And his mom goes up to him and is like hey, the SAT's this weekend, you should take the SAT. And he's like no, I'm not taking the SAT, I'm not going to waste my time taking the SAT. And she's like no, I'm not taking the SAT, I'm not going to waste my time taking the SAT. And she's like can you please just take the SAT from me? He's like no, I don't want to. And she's like just please, you don't have to go to college, I don't care, please, just take the SAT. Just give you the option to go to college if you want to. So he goes and he's like, okay, I'll take the SAT, but I'm going to bomb it. And it's like it's going to be a waste of time, whatever, I'm not going to college. He goes and takes the SAT. Like a couple weeks or months later the score comes back and he got like a perfect or close to perfect on the SAT. And immediately he's like holy, like maybe I'm not as dumb as I think I am. Like that's crazy, like wow, like I got almost got perfect on sat. So then he's like maybe I should go to college, right. So then he went to college, went to really good college, right. While he's in college gets really good grades, gets a uh, a really good job, ends up working his way up to become a CEO of a company. A couple years later he gets notified from the SAT. They reach out to him like hey, we're really, really sorry, but we've messed up the names. We gave you the wrong SAT score. Your actual SAT score was something like what he would have expected back in high school. The whole moral of the story is it's your expectation. It's your expectations for yourself.

Speaker 2: 18:19

Going back to what you said, reframing in your mind and whatever else, and toning things, focusing on the positive in my crew. Whenever I started like expecting, like, oh, like, like, I would actually kind of get pissed myself. Like wait, like I should, I should be a state champ, like why am I not a state champion? You know what I mean. Like stuff like that, or like oh, like, like, yeah, like I'm, I'm going to go to a big school, like I'm good, but myself, like were higher and I expected, like, and I've expected and focused on these.

Speaker 2: 18:56

Like success out of myself is whenever I started getting that success, if that makes sense, like, and we kind of correlate it back to like how you feel, but it's the same thing, what's like, oh, I'm a really good wrestler, right, I'm going to go out there, I'm going to wrestle good, right, because I'm a great wrestler, right. And then you start focusing on that stuff instead of being like it doesn't matter that I got a bad night's sleep, it doesn't matter that I'm sick. Like I know how to wrestle, I expect myself to win. Like I'm going to go out there and perform because I'm a good wrestler. You know what I mean. Go out there and perform, because I'm a good wrestler, you know. I mean.

Speaker 2: 19:33

So it's kind of like almost like, when you focus on the expectation and your identity and who you are, right, the adversity that comes your way, you can kind of push it off where it's like, well, it doesn't like, even if I'm sick, like I'm still a good wrestler, even if I'm tired, I'm still, you know. I mean. So I think that's a big part of it. And then also just doing it in practice, right, where if you get a bad night's sleep and you have a good practice, then it's like oh, I've done it before, I'm sick, you have a good practice, oh, I've done it before. So then it happens in a match. It's's a big thing, is expectation, identity and then also, um, like evidence, so evidence that's happened in the past, right, and I think that's a, that's a big thing.

Speaker 1: 20:25

That's kind of all over the place, but that's what I think I think an underlying message in that too is the belief creates action. It's very similar to the four minute mile right.

Speaker 1: 20:36

Nobody could run a four minute mile. Then someone runs a four minute mile and I believe it was in that same year, 50 other people ran a four minute mile. So history nobody could run a four minute mile. One person does it, and now multiple people can do it, and it's that belief. You know that, that circle of belief, right, I believe I can do something, I do action, I do it. And it's that belief. You know that circle of belief, right, I believe I can do something, I do action, I do it. And then it just creates belief and it funnels into different areas of life.

Speaker 1: 21:00

And I think the IQ, intelligence piece of that is so fascinating too, because I do believe that that is one of the hardest things to measure in a person is like how smart are they, what are their capabilities? Because intelligence is relative. And something I noticed about you was you were a four time all big 10, you know academic student to go along with being a two time academic or two time all American nationally as a wrestler. How did you balance that and how much of a priority was it for you to do well in school and to be highly educated?

Speaker 2: 21:39

Yeah, uh, I mean, a big thing for me was like my whole life and this is I mean we can we can kind of dive deeper into this, but my whole life was looking back on it Now it's like I was a good student so I toured wrestle, I did this, my priority was wrestling. It's funny because now wrestling's over, I'm done competing. Now I look back and I'm like, oh, I actually love learning, I love learninganing new things, right, but at that time my priority was such wrestling where I was getting good grades. I was doing well in school, right, but I was doing it so I could wrestle right. And that's what even like like we talk about like theq and knowledge stuff and stuff like that. But it also has to do with, like my priority, my focus was in wrestling, right, and I was gonna do whatever it took so I could wrestle right.

Speaker 2: 22:42

And um, tying back to like what you said with like the added stressors and whatnot, like I just didn't want, I wanted to be so disciplined that school was not a added stressor to me, right, and that's why I would say I got good grades and I was, and I definitely like I didn't put in a lot of effort in school, right, it's funny. I look back now and be like, oh, if I took like I wish I would take that class now because I would gain a lot out of it and I probably learned a lot of stuff, right, but at that time this wasn't my focus, right, I was getting the grades, I was doing what I had to do. Uh, I was crossing my cross, my t's, dotting my i's, but I was doing it so I could wrestle, right, and I was doing it so my performance wouldn't be affected and I didn't have to worry about another stressor, right. But yeah, I mean, it's funny, like I think, but I think we're having that mindset like you have to have a high IQ, you have to be smart to be able to think like that, right, and it's funny with sports, like it's.

Speaker 2: 23:47

So it's such like an individual, like an individualized experience where, like, I've known really good wrestlers who were very, very dumb, right, and they were so good because they were so dumb. Or it was like, like they think they're gonna win this match and no one else thinks they're gonna win this match, but like they're like, they're like, they're so delusional and like, like in confidence up that they win the match or like. So it's funny because then I also like know people who are extremely smart. Are you familiar with?

Speaker 1: 24:22

sorry to cut you off. Are you familiar with the midwit meme? I'm not. No, okay, this is like the 50th time I've talked about this, but it just. It comes up so naturally because people describe it like this every single time. And so on the midwet meme I'm going to have to start posting a picture of the midwet meme on my episodes. But on one end of the spectrum you have someone who's super dumb and comes to a conclusion. On the other end of the spectrum, you have someone who's unbelievably smart, comes to the same conclusion, and then you have this arc of people filled that have all kinds of different like conclusions, whatever, but they're all midwits. And the person who is so simple and the person who is so sophisticated just come back to the same conclusions. And it's exactly that, and it's. It's so true that you want to be so aligned in your thoughts and yourself that you can be the high IQ, high intelligent version of the Mitt Whitman.

Speaker 1: 25:23

Something that you said that I relate really well to is like the sport being your priority. I would say most athletes right. Your priority is going to be your sport, and so for me it was always, even throughout high school. Whatever I just did, enough to get grades so that I could keep playing and potentially play in college. And then when I got to college, it was like I just have to have above a 3-0. That was my threshold above a 3-0 and I'm good.

Speaker 1: 25:48

And the thing that actually impacted me on the side that I rarely really really talk about was growing up, like when I'm talking about like young ages. I was like in the gifted learning program. I was like spelling bee champion, I was in accelerated math, I was in all these different things. But then it like switched when I realized I was like a good athlete and I stopped trying and I used that as like a defense mechanism. When people would talk about all their grades, I'd be like, well, imagine if I tried, I'm getting this and I didn't even try, where I wish I could go back and just prioritize my time better, because I do love learning now and I love reading and I love applying myself.

Speaker 1: 26:31

And the thing about what, if I had just done that all those years, I still could have been as successful as an athlete and have gotten the grades. And it's just. That's like one of the things I look back and say, well, I'll never know, but sometimes I actually have to remind myself I am intelligent. Like I am smart, I don't have to play stupid anymore. Like I am an intelligent person. Person. I just took it for granted all those years yeah, no, yeah, that's definitely that's what.

Speaker 2: 26:58

Uh, that reminds me like the jody strip matters. So, like the coaching youngest, he'd always say like you can be a good athlete and still be a really good student and still be a really good person and son and brother, and like you can't do it all right and um, jordan Lean used to talk about this at Brown like Ivy League and a lot of Ivy League kids are like this, but like it's just like a high performer, right and like like even like the most successful professional athletes, right where their the career is, their sport, they're high performers. You'll see all these different stuff that they're doing and you're like, oh, wow, you can do it all. That's what you said. It just takes more time management and um, discipline and stuff like that. But like, looking back, like I'm like, oh, I definitely could have put more, more effort or more like attention in, like school and stuff and actually learning and stuff like that. And, like you said, like I have to do the same thing is unlike you, like you come off very smart.

Speaker 2: 28:12

For me. I've always at least that's what I felt I've always been smarter than what people think. I am right where, like I've always been like the class clown and with like the, I taught funny and I'd always do dumb stuff, right, but I always was aware of what I was doing, right, yeah, and I was doing it so I could, right. So people would think I was funny and I could get attention and girls would like and stuff like that. But it's fun, like.

Speaker 2: 28:36

I would have to like almost tell myself too, like, oh, like I am intelligent, I am smart, right, and that's a big thing. Where, like, and it's almost goes back to what we were saying too, with like the, the um, the expectation right, where it's like you have these expectations for yourself and then like, okay, if you actually do think you're smart, like if you think you're dumb, you're gonna act dumb, right. If you think you're smart, you're gonna act smart, right. And it's the same thing you need to do things to try, and I'm a big believer too is you can always learn and become more intelligent, more disciplined, right. And it just goes back to what you were saying your expectation for yourself is going to provide results. And I forget what you said, but you had a good line where it's like about the outcome, right, what were you saying? It was like the outcome is driven by the, not the focus. But I don't know. Whatever you said, it was so true though it's like. I don't know. We'll have to run it back.

Speaker 1: 29:49

We'll have to play it back the life that you get. Was it about like what you focus on is like the life you get, or whatever, something like that yeah, and it was just mainly focusing on like the like.

Speaker 2: 30:02

if, if I think right, if I focus on the me being sick and me being like all the like, whatever you feel, yeah, what you Well, you said what are you focused on is life, you get Right. So, if I focus on being smart I focused on being um, like this plan, whatever else, I'm going to get that life. If I'm focused on being dumb, whatever I'm going to get that life. But long story short, I went rambling on that. You should definitely cut that part out of the podcast.

Speaker 1: 30:36

No, it was good. It good. You know, I think it's. You know, I try to avoid what I call quote porn too is, like you know, a bunch of quotes. But sometimes and I think with men in particular like a good quote or a good line will stick with you forever.

Speaker 1: 30:47

Like there's this entrepreneur naval I don't know if you're familiar with him. He had this line about intelligence since we're on the the topic where said there's really only two measures of intelligence it's knowing what you want and knowing how to get it. And if you look at that from a wrestling lens or a athletic competition lens, it's I know I want to be a national champion, and then I know how to get there. And then in life, hey, I know, I mean, pick it. I want to be a CEO of a company, I know how to get there. I know I want to be a father, I know how to get there. Whatever it is, that is the measure of intelligence to me and it's stuck with me so deeply because you could always have, you know, the pissing contest between people of like, oh, I'm smarter because of this, or I'm smarter because of this, but does any of that really matter if you don't get the things that you want.

Speaker 2: 31:37

Yeah, yeah, I mean that's that's true. It's all about results, right.

Speaker 1: 31:41

Yeah, and then the process Right. And I always go back and forth with process and outcomes because I am of the mindset outcomes matter, like outcomes 100% matter. The process obviously gets us there, so that's why that hijacks the conversation. But if I'm just focusing on the process, process, process and I never get the outcome I want, well then hey, maybe, then there's a issue there with what I'm focusing on right, and it's a holistic conversation that, I believe, gets nitpicked at times because everybody is a master of winning but there's very few people who have actually won.

Speaker 2: 32:19

Yeah, well, yeah, that's a. We used to call them like process guys, like, oh, he's just a process guy and this is the. This is the brutal truth about life is you have like, do you have these certain people who, like they work really hard, they do everything right, right, and they like they do everything they're told, but they just don't have the results to back it up. And that's like it's sad, but it's like you almost would rather some guy do everything wrong and win and produce results than the process guy, right, and it's crazy, because that's just how life works sometimes, right, well, you have a guy, you have two athletes. One does everything right, right, one does everything right, and then, uh, the other one does everything wrong, and the guy who does everything wrong produces results. Right, and you got to go with that. Like, if you're coaching these between those two, you've got to go with that. Like, if you're coaching between those two guys, you've got to go with that guy, because it's all about results. Right, you've got to be result-oriented in sports. But we I'll talk to my like my teammates about it a lot too where you definitely have, like, you have guys who do everything right and you have guys who do everything right and you guys who do everything wrong. The guys win and stuff.

Speaker 2: 33:34

But I think at the end of the day this is, um a ben askren quote, and it's so true. It's like you have the cowboy who doesn't do anything right and just goes out there and like gunslingers, right. And then you have the the process guy who just does everything right, right, and then he goes out there and then he just doesn't have that cowboy in him to like get the results right. So he says this, and it's so true. He's like you have both right.

Speaker 2: 34:07

You've got to be a process guy where, like you're working, like you're doing everything right, right, you're doing everything right, you're where you're working, you're doing everything right, you're doing everything right, you're controlling what you can control. And then as soon as you go out there on the mat or the field or whatever, you're going to have that cowboy where it's like I don't care, I'm letting it fly, I don't care at all. You know what I mean and it's hard. It's hard because the guys who are process guys, they've put so much time and effort and energy in that, they're so much more invested, so they're nervous about it, right, and they're nervous you, you brought that home so well.

Speaker 1: 34:38

I was. I was hoping we'd get to that piece that you just went to, where you can't be a robot, right, you can't be like that engineer mindset where it's like, hey, any little detail I mess up, like like I'm going to lose, and like super calculated and the important follow-up as well, as you articulated really well. Sometimes you can do everything right and still lose. You can do everything absolutely right to a T, the way that you're supposed to, and still lose, and that's the unfairness of life. And so, doing things the right way, there has to be a separate mindset about it. I actually just wrote about it where doing the actions in themselves are the reward. Right, I do the right things because that's who I am, that's a function of me. Right, and then to get the outcomes that we want, there's, like, this other element and you have to evaluate one Is it a talent gap? If it's a talent gap, don't care how hard you work, right, you know. You have to accept that if there is a talent gap, you just certain you just can't get over it, right. Then if it's a, you know, going back to that process, if it's a process thing, you fix it. If it's a mindset thing, you fix it. Whatever it is like, you evaluate and you work your best to fix it.

Speaker 1: 35:48

But the gunslinger and I love that I had a coach tell me once the best, because I was a corner, the best corners in the NFL between the whistles they think about nothing Before the snap. That's when their IQ is high. Hey, what's the down and distance? What is their alignment? What is the quarterback doing? What are their signals? Which foot is up for the receiver? Is the tackle standing up? Is he leaned forward, right, looking at all the cues to give you any type of inclination of hey, what are they going to do? What is the play that they like to run? And then, as soon as that ball snap, boom, you stop thinking about everything and you just react and play. And that is such a hard dynamic to find Right. And it goes back to that midwit meme. Either you're so in tune with who you are or you're dumb enough to where it doesn't matter and you can just react. Yeah, and it's there's so many guys that find themselves right in the middle that are so frustrated because they can't get to either end of the spectrum.

Speaker 2: 36:47

Yeah, I mean, this is my biggest thing about it is like, what helped me the most is whenever I started thinking like I started raising it in a way where it was like, well, I'm practicing, I'm practicing, I do all this practice so I can just turn off my mind and react when it's time. Right, and that's what started happening is like, like I said earlier, is like I love journaling, right, and I would journal to, like, and I would get to a point where it's like, okay, like this is exactly what I'm doing. Right, so I would be a process guy, right, I'd be a process guy and I'd write down exactly what I'm gonna do before the match, right, and you just talked about it. But, like quotes, I love. Clarity equals power. Right, that's a big thing. I always say clarity equals power, clarity equals power. So, right, that was a big thing. I always say Clarity equals power, clarity equals power.

Speaker 2: 37:35

So I was like I'm going to make my mind as clear as possible, so I'm going to write that the night before I'd write down exactly what I was going to do, right, I would get to the point where it was like this is what I'm going to wear. Right, it's what I'm going to wear, I'm going to look good in gonna wear this, because I'm gonna be more confident, because I'm gonna feel good, right, and then I'm gonna do this and do this, right. So I had an exact plan and then at the very end it was like I don't know if I can say this, but I'm gonna say, anyways, I get to start, I have all this right. And then, my last thing, you say, fuck it.

Speaker 2: 38:04

So literally like I had all this planned out. And then as soon as I step on the mat, it's like all right, now I turn off my brain and I just let, like my practice and my um reactions and flow state just take over, right. And that's when I always wrestle the best right, where I would be a process guy and I would prepare as much as I could. And then, as soon as I would be about to step on the mat, like you said, like the whistle blows, you turn off your mind and you let, like your like reactions and flow state take over and you practice for so long where, like your body naturally does right and that's the important piece is like I don't think you can get to the flow state you articulated without the during the week doing everything.

Speaker 1: 38:51

Right, yeah, but, like you said, your ability to and this is a profanity allowed podcast uh, we to be able to say, fuck it, right, like is a skill to just let it fly, and that's not to be reckless, right, but you're out there and you're just competing because you know you've done everything. You're just letting muscle memory take over. Yeah, when you're in a close match, how can you describe to people who haven't been in those moments what is going through your mind when you're one one takedown basically wins yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:26

So this kind of correlates back to the flow state. What we're talking about like I got to the point in my career where it's like, if I got to like, so, like you say, fuck it, you go out there, you wrestle, right. If I go out there and the guy takes me down right away like, throws me in my back or whatever, I'd almost wrestle better because I'm wrestling in a state of like, fuck it, like my, I mean like all of a sudden, like it's like points are flying around of a sudden, like think, like it's like, once you're flying around, you know a bunch of positions you don't even thinking about it, right, but the one one close match, that's when it gets tough. Because it's like, then you do, you do start thinking, right, and it gets close, right, 30 seconds left, right, you start thinking, ah, like I don't know if I can take the risk right now, right, so that's when it gets tough is because you are in a state where it's like, the more you're standing around, the more you're thinking, right.

Speaker 2: 40:19

So for me, when action would happen, it was better because my reactions, my flow state would take over and I wouldn't be thinking right. And I'm sure it's probably similar in football right where you have like a broken play happen right, then all of a sudden the quarterback's like scrambling around, he's making all these crazy plays, but that's because he's not even thinking about it. Right, where, compared to like he's trying to do every little thing right, so that was a big thing is, and say it was 1-1. 30 seconds left, close match. Right. I almost got tricked my mind in a way to get back to like that flow state or kind of like get into a position and then just let my reactions take over. Right where it's like I kind of turn off my mind still like it's almost being conscious of my situation, but being able to still turn off my mind, where I can still wrestle and not even think about it it's so different with football you know obviously a lot of quarterbacks.

Speaker 1: 41:16

I can't relate. But being able to still turn off my mind, where I can still wrestle and not even think about it, it's so different with football. Obviously I'm not a quarterback, so I can't relate to what a quarterback specifically is thinking in their mind. But as a defensive back, I think the scenario is like hey, I'm in, it's either fourth and short, or fourth and whatever, or fourth and goal for the game. I've been in those positions and it's like you get a formation.

Speaker 1: 41:37

Well, first, what's going on in your mind is like okay, hey, I know from film studying our preparation all week when they get into go what we like to go, situations like our game, situations where it's play game or play turnover on downs, this is what they like to go to, depending on down and distance. So I'm like, okay, here's the plays I'm cycling through in my head, no-transcript. Like, and I talked about hey, when that whistle blows, you have to shut your mind off. If you don't, and you can't focus on your job and what you're supposed to do, it's like you freeze and there's all this action happening and your eyes can't see or process what's going on, and so then you're late to react and that's how you action happening and your eyes can't see or process what's going on. And so then you're late to react. And that's how you'll see, like certain like these motions in the NFL, or a play snaps in a receiver or a defensive back is late on a break, that looks like, oh, that's so easy, just break there.

Speaker 1: 42:45

It's like more than likely, every he froze because everything was acting too fast for his brain to process, because he wasn't in a state of like just true focus, because he was thinking, he was overthinking and he just couldn't react quick enough. And it's different because, like in wrestling, like there's no like play break, yeah, you're just in that motion. And you have to communicate in your mind like, hey, what do I do? Do I take the shot? Do I not take the shot? If he takes a shot, how do I block it? You know, do you guys have a lot of film study?

Speaker 2: 43:19

uh, it's crazy, like we don't. It's almost like aware like you. Like you like you watch, to like be aware of what they have without, like if they have a move that is dangerous, they can hit you in, right, you want to be aware of it, right, you want to be aware of their best stuff, but you don't want to be able, like you want to change what makes you best to compensate for what they're good at, right. So that is like the it's a crazy thing about sports is like there's so many similarities but, depending on the sport, that is like like some serious differences. And that's the thing.

Speaker 2: 43:54

I will give a ton of props for football. It's you guys putting so much time to learn the formations and the calls. There's so much extra stuff compared to wrestling. In tournaments you don't know who you're going to wrestle. You win or you lose, someone wins or loses, you match up to a random, random guy and you just go out there and wrestle.

Speaker 2: 44:18

So there's not a lot of film study and like. If you, for instance, in football, if you didn't study any film, you'd be screwed when you play them right. But in wrestling, you don't study any film and you can still like, be completely fine, you can win the match, you can play. You know what I mean. But it is funny, like you said, like the thing that is similar, though, is like the hesitation kills, right, if you hesitate for a second, you're gonna lose. Yep, right. And that's where it's like there's so much action going on where you have to turn off your mind, because if you stop and think for a second, right, right, that's whenever you get taken down, that's whenever, like, the guys want to scramble stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 44:58

I don't know if you saw this play this weekend it was Oregon was playing Montana state, I think it was in a receiver literally drove a safety back and, like pancake, blocked him and buried him into the ground. And and a reporter asked Dan landing, the head coach at Oregon, about it, he's like, how does that make you feel to see that? And he goes. Well, he was blocking the wrong guy, he was like. But he was like you love to see guys play fast and make mistakes fast. And that was something that we emphasized so much as a defense was like even if you do something wrong, do it fast, get rid of hesitation, don't overthink, just play fast. If you do it fast, get rid of hesitation, don't overthink, just play fast. If you make a mistake at full speed, you can still make something good happen.

Speaker 2: 45:35

And that's just like the perfect example of hey, if you make a mistake, just play fast, do the right thing and you can still have opportunity to make a play yeah, without doubt, and I think that's a big thing too, just like not dwelling on your mistakes, right like the hard thing to do, and it goes hard thing to do and it goes back to what we like, the first thing we talk about, what you, with your focus, right, well, it's like I can either focus on the mistake I just made and like freeze, or I can just be like, oh, I made this mistake, oh well, just keep on going, right, no hesitation. And yeah, right, no hesitation. And yeah, it is a hard thing to do. And even in in wrestling too, like you lose a match, so like there's no play breaks in wrestling, but like in you, with you, when you're in a tournament, right, you're wrestling multiple matches in the same day. So it's like that's how I would compare it. It's so different, but that's how I compare.

Speaker 2: 46:30

It is like, say, you do lose a match or you do wrestle bad, right, all of a sudden, 20 minutes later, you have a different match, right, so like you can either like and it's hard to not be able to focus on that mistake and then go and wrestle your mat like a brand new match, right, where it's like you have to have a short memory and you gotta turn it off fast, your brain off fast, and just go back and just focus on, focus on on the next best thing, right, that's the big thing. I always always say like the next best thing, right. And that goes back to that play in Oregon right, where he blocked the wrong guy. All right, what's the next best thing I can do now?

Speaker 1: 47:03

Right, it's it's so funny I actually use that exact line the next best thing. So I have this thing it's called you routine reset, refocus, and that refocus is all right. What's the next best thing I can do? Is there anything now? Granted, of course, I didn't have that when I played, because I learned a lot about this stuff when I was done. Um, is there anything that you did to focus on that next best thing, or is that just something you said in your mind?

Speaker 2: 47:27

so this is, uh, this is a uh, actually a pretty cool story. My initials are M3, so MMM. My first name, last name, and then my middle name is Michael, so it's MMM. I put M3 on all my shoes, all my gear, so no one would steal my stuff. Tom Branson was always like M3, m3, m3, because I was on everything and my senior year of college, right.

Speaker 2: 48:01

So I'm like thinking about not coming back for a sixth year. I was like I don't know if I want to come back. My body was beat up, I was tired, right. I didn't know if I want to come back for a sixth year. And eventually, like I talked to the coaches, I'm coming back for a sixth year, right year. And eventually, like I talked to coaches, I'm coming back for six year.

Speaker 2: 48:18

Right, get ready for the season, have like a good both, two couple matches opening up the match, right, I'm feeling pretty good, pretty excited about coming back. Uh what, super early on, we have iowa state meet, right, we have the iowa state meet and I'm super sick before the meet, right, super sick before the meet. But at this time I'm old enough where I'm like, hey, it doesn't matter, right, that's the first thing, it doesn't matter, I can still wrestle really good. I end up losing in overtime. In the Iowa State meet right Palms giving a speech. He gives a speech after the match. He's gone through every match. Right Palms giving a speech. He gives a speech after the match. He's gone through every match. Right. 25, spencer Lee good job, you pin the guy. 33, right Just going through every match.

Speaker 2: 49:01

49, muren M3, man M3, man up, make adjustments, move forward. And he said that and it was like, and it was like it was like a rapper dropped, like an absolute line. I was like, so I've been right. I wrote that on everything, man up, make adjustments, move forward. And then after that I like started like the rest of the season, it was like okay, something doesn't go my way, what do I do? All right, I get tough. Right, I stopped being a baby about it. I man up, I make adjustments. It didn't happen what I did wrong in the past. I'm going to make adjustments so that doesn't happen again. I'm going to move forward, I'm going to forget about it. That's what. To this day, something happens.

Speaker 2: 49:48

M3, man up, make adjustments, move forward. It's something that I love and that's what. Like you, like you said like, like you have like a like, a lot like a, an action step, and that's the. That's why like, okay, like, and I have to catch myself sometimes. Right, I'll be like person did this is now. They have to stop me like m3, man up, right, it sucks that that person did that or it sucks that that happened, right, it does all. Right, it sucks, but am I gonna be a baby about it or am I gonna man up right, so that man up make adjustments so it doesn't happen again and then I move forward and forget about it? Right, and that's just been like the. It happened my sixth year of college. I almost looked back. I'm like I wish I had that knowledge early on in my career, but at the same time, it's like it's hard to get that, like they could have told me that when I was 18 and I don't know if it would have hit the same when I was maturity aspect.

Speaker 2: 50:44

Yeah, exactly, and but yeah, that's a big thing. For me is like, and even like that, going back to like that player who missed the tackle, or you make a bad play at corner, right, it's like all right, I can either be like oh, I gave up that touchdown, right, all right, man up, you got to man up. All right, you gave up that touchdown, take it on the chin of command, take responsibility. All right, now we're going to do it. I'm going to make adjustments. Right, I'm all right, now we're gonna do, I'm gonna make adjustments. Right, I'm not gonna do what I did and I'm not gonna hesitate to get in the past. All right, now I'm gonna move forward so the next play is not also ruined.

Speaker 2: 51:24

Right, and the cool thing about sports is like you can. It's like so. There's so many lessons you learn sports that you can take on into your life. And right in sports, m3 may not make adjustments moving forward. Right, you do in a couple seconds. Right, you have to make a, you have to man up, make adjustments, move forward within a couple seconds. And then in life, it's like well, I think this has been going bad for a couple months or years. Right, well, I'm gonna have to man up, make adjustments and move forward. So it's like the timeline might be different, but it's the same lesson.

Speaker 1: 51:55

I love that. That is, that is a bar right, and when someone hits it with you at the right time, that is so much of like what we can take and move forward and translate into all domains of life. But it's you made. You brought up a really good point. Sometimes you hear things at the right time. If I had heard certain things or learned certain things earlier in my life, it probably wouldn't have had the same impact as it did when I did hear it. And I think that's a lesson that when we do learn things, it's important to really take that in and acknowledge hey, this happened to me at the right time for a reason, and then to use the move forward, move forward, apply it right. Where can I apply this immediately and have it actually changed my life? Cause that's one of my definitions of learning is I don't think you can truly have learned something unless it changes or influences behavior.

Speaker 2: 52:54

Yeah, yeah, without a doubt, and that even goes back to what you were saying about like I wish I would have been a better student, like back then. It's like, well, like it just wasn't the right time, right, well, it's like now you're learning stuff, right, you're developing right. At that time, you focused on something else and you just weren't ready to like obtain the information that they were giving you, right, or you weren't ready to like be a good student. But now, like you matured and like all these things have happened. Well, like, okay, like maybe I wasn't in the past, but that doesn't mean I'm too late to learn new information and skills now.

Speaker 2: 53:33

Right, like I've learned, like I've learned, oh, I should have been a better student back then. Right, I should have been a better student. Well, I wasn't. So what am I going to do about it? I got to man up, right, I'm going to make adjustments. So, now that when people are teaching me stuff, right, I'm going to learn the information. And now I'm going to move forward and use the information that I learned to move forward with my life. I'm going to start using that.

Speaker 1: 53:54

That's awesome. How did you handle the pressure of wrestling at the university of Iowa?

Speaker 2: 53:58

Yeah, yeah, uh, so early on I didn't.

Speaker 2: 54:04

I didn't handle it pretty. I didn't handle it very well. I definitely could have handled it better where I would go with the highs and the highs like like if I would win a big match and everyone was telling me how great I was, I thought I was like the man. Like I thought I was the man, I acted like I was the man. And then, as soon as I would lose the match and all of a sudden, like everyone was like, well, these dogs. I was like, well, I'm horrible. You know what I mean? I was just rather emotional rollercoaster. And then you get older.

Speaker 2: 54:32

Something that helped me is like being around the guys in the team all the time, where you think, like the guys on the team were my best friends and whether I won a big match or lost a big match, right, that like that night or that weekend we were still hanging out making fun of each other's, like like nothing changed, right, and like that's what really helped me was like the people who really matter in my life and you're like I love and love me. Nothing's gonna change whether I win this match, lose this match. And it was super cool too. Like even like my teammates who like, like I, okay, I might have just lost them the match. They're the ones who, like I lost the team, the match, right, they're the ones who are the most understanding about it, right, and they're the ones who's like, don't like whether you're the and and I used to say this later on and I'm like, honestly, you could be the fifth string or you could be the returning national champ, to me it makes no difference, right, if you're a cool guy, I like hanging out with you. I'm going to hang out with you, right, and like that definitely helped take a lot of pressure off.

Speaker 2: 55:38

Is like, if I lose this match, right, it's going to, it's going to suck, I'm going to be pissed. Right, I'm going to be thinking about changing, or like changing around my whole life. I just that's what I would always do. I'd be like, oh, I lost the match, where I have to just change everything, which is just absolutely idiotic looking back. But, like the people that love me, nothing's going to change, right, my parents are still going to love me, my family is still going to love me, my buddies are still going to hang out with me. That took a lot of pressure off of us. It's just a game. It's just a game, I love doing it. If I let go and just let it fly and have fun out there, I'm not going to regret it. I'm going to regret it if I'm super like, super tight, super nervous.

Speaker 2: 56:24

Then afterwards I was like why did I wrestle like that? So that kind of helped me when the pressure is, knowing having good relationships, knowing that people are going to be there for me no matter what, and then just knowing I want to be there, I enjoy it. I used to tell myself there's no place I'd rather be. And it was true. And even I had some matches I've lost where it was like high scoring and afterwards I'd be like, well, that's it, like I had, I had a lot of fun right, like that was a lot of fun and funny story. I don't know if kevin would like me telling a story, but he, when he lost to staracci senior year at carver, I actually I had to go to the ER directly out of the match.

Speaker 2: 57:07

So in the middle of the match I get poked in the eye, my cornea fills up with blood so I can't see out of my eye right and like I mean different than football, like football, you can kind of go and sit out for a play, kind of get it figured out For me like you can't stop. And if I do have an injury time, the guy gets choice into close match. So I keep wrestling right, just stay calm, keep wrestling right, talk to myself the whole time, so I end up going to the er. I spend the whole night in the er like in my my cornea figured out. Eventually they kind of get they figure out a way to get the blood out of my eye. I come back and camera just loses like a heartbreaking loss to Thirachi and I was talking about it and he goes. Honestly, man, he goes.

Speaker 2: 57:51

That match was so much fun. And then that, like I heard that and I was like dude, that's actually so. Like, when you have these like win or lose, when else are you going to have like 16,000 people watching every move screaming at you? I'm like it is fun. That took a lot of pressure off. Number one no place I would rather be. You could pay me a lot of money to miss this match and I'm not going to miss this match because I enjoy being out there.

Speaker 2: 58:22

Number two after this match, the people I hang out with are going to be the same, right, and we're going to do the same thing. Like I'm going to be playing Madden, I'm going to be playing Marinelli and Madden, like the next day, anyways, right. And then number three is just like, if I go out there and just am present and slow, I'm not going to regret it anyway. That's the stuff that kind of helped me with the pressure. There's a quote, another quote, that I like to live by. It's like live by truth, not by feeling. Then you know what's true in your life. It makes the feeling of nervousness and pressure right. You're like, ah, like it's gonna go away eventually anyway. This too shall pass, right, this too shall pass.

Speaker 1: 59:15

Not, this too shall pass it's, it's so true and it's that's a phenomenal motto to live by, particularly during tough times. Um, I remember you know that match and I mean I was. I was there and the first thing mike said when he came, you know, up the top of carver to talk with ray and I and he said that was just a really fun match. He's like you know, obviously it sucks.

Speaker 1: 59:39

I think that's the big thing that I keep seeing with you that theme of like, acknowledging, hey, this sucks, but then you're three M's right, man up, make adjustments, you know, move forward. Is that acknowledgement is really important? Right, like, and when you can execute, hey, I'm going to acknowledge this sucks and I'm not going to just be a positive Polly about it, but I am going to man up, make adjustments and move forward. Like, that is a superpower, in my opinion, something that's really hard to master. But the fun piece I wish it was easier to coach people into having fun, because if you start way back maybe not for everybody but for most people you did something because it was fun and you were good at it and you just enjoyed that level of competition.

Speaker 1: 1:00:24

And you lose it the more you move up. That level of competition. Yeah, and yes, it move. You lose it the more you move up and it becomes a job and all these different things. But, like you, used to dream of those moments when you were a kid for sure, and this is something I would always tell myself before my matches.

Speaker 2: 1:00:38

and I tell, I tell them like getting wrestlers now is it's, like, it's no different compared to when you were wrestling your dad in the living room or you're wrestling your brother or your brother, your buddies, on the trampoline, right, it's just wrestling, right. And when you do it, when you're in the like on the trampoline wrestling your buddies, it's so much fun, right, you're having so much fun doing it. And then all of a sudden, like you put a ceiling on you and you're not going to have fun doing it. Like that's still what you enjoy doing. Like, just do it. Like, just turn off your mind and just do it. It's just.

Speaker 2: 1:01:12

And that's something I would always like tell myself like, okay, someone comes up to me and grabs my leg, right, say, I'm standing in the hallway, how am I going to wrestle with it? Right, in the hallway, I just start wrestling. Right, I'm literally standing by my locker. When someone comes up and grabs my leg, I'm just gonna start wrestling, like I would know how to, right. So what's the difference?

Speaker 2: 1:01:33

Whenever I'm in a match with someone grabs my leg, I know what, I know what to do, right. So if I just focus on being present in whatever situation I'm in, right, right, then then it's fun, right, because that's what I enjoy doing. I love wrestling, right, so I love wrestling. Why would I not love it even more when thousands of people are watching me and I have someone who's like a high caliber person who's also really good at wrestling, who also wrestling right? So I feel like when you kind of when you talk to yourself and I think that's what helps me with nose and pressure too is clarity equals power, right, and I keep on, right, and that's beautiful.

Speaker 2: 1:02:16

Keep going back to it and when you clear, right, it's, it's power. Like you, mentally clear, you're like, oh, I don't need to be noticed, like this is what I love doing. You know, this is like in my life's not gonna be that much different if I win or lose, right. And then, like you, start telling you all like this, the true stuff, like this is like about your life. That's whenever it's like oh, like this is fun, this is fun, I love being out here, right and that's like.

Speaker 1: 1:02:42

You know, I have this thing with like nervousness. So, like other than, when I'm speaking about what it is, I really don't use the word nerves, I just use the word excitement, just like a simple reframe, because your body, it's the same type of response, the butterflies, it's the same physiological response and it's, yeah, I'm just excited, like yeah, because go ahead.

Speaker 2: 1:03:03

I don't know if michael got this from you or what, but he would always. He would always talk about that and he'd always say like and I started saying it too where it's like when you feel the nervousness, you'd be like, wow, I'm so excited right now because it's like the same feeling, it's and it's just your body's way of telling you hey, we're about to do something you care about.

Speaker 1: 1:03:25

You're about to get an enhanced sense of focus, enhanced adrenaline, enhanced capabilities that you can't get in a normal state. But in that same breath, if you take it the wrong path, you'll get negative adrenaline, you'll overcook, you'll have a worse performance. So that's why it's just a simple, just like reframe, like hey, this is serving me, this is for my benefit.

Speaker 2: 1:03:48

This is my body's way of telling me I'm about to go into competition. Yeah, I mean, this goes back to what the first thing we said right, what you focus on, right, focus on the positive, focus on the negative and and reframe it in a way where it's like oh, this is, this is positive, right. And you've got to tell yourself, oh, like I'm excited, um, like it's. And another thing too this is what Ken used to say too is like we'd be talking about not getting sleep and we're like when else? Like it's almost a superpower, like you, okay, you're right, you're not nervous, you're excited about tomorrow. Right, you're excited about tomorrow.

Speaker 2: 1:04:19

You can't sleep, right, you better get any sleep Right, right, you barely get any sleep right. And if you look at it in a way where it's like, oh, my gosh, like this is crazy that I have all this energy and like emotion and I didn't even sleep last night, right, where it's like that's like the call, like you can use that as a superpower and you can reframe in your mind, where it's like oh, like that's, like that's awesome, I don't need sleep because I'm gonna be excited anyways tomorrow. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:04:47

Until I experience something that changes my opinion, nothing will change my opinion more than the, at least from a mindset perspective, the most beneficial skill to learn is reframing. Oh yeah, skill to learn is reframing, oh yeah. If I can reframe, repurpose and like, like you, keep talking about talking with yourself, if I can do that in any situation, I believe everything. Every other psychological trick or routine that you can implement is just to get the voice in your head to calm down and be able to talk to yourself, not listen to yourself. Yeah, for me it's reframing is is the go-to.

Speaker 2: 1:05:29

There's nothing I can advocate for more than that yeah, and it's funny, like you, like it is, like you said before, it is tough, right, like your natural response is to be negative.

Speaker 2: 1:05:39

Yep, if you can like, in any situation, you can reframe it right.

Speaker 2: 1:05:43

If you just like, you stop for one second and you're like, wait like, wait, like, and you reframe it and then like, like it goes back to m3, right, and that's when, like, that's all it is is reframing, is acknowledge it sucks, right, make adjustments and then move forward. Right, so you're use reframing in your head, right, where it's like, oh, like I'm excited instead of nervous, or okay, like this is going to be, like what happened to me is like I would lose a big match and it would be like you got to reframe it right. Or like this is going to be a tone-back moment in my career, right, where I'm going to look back and like, wow, like this is gonna be a tone back moment in my career, right, where I'm like I'm gonna look back and like, wow, like, look, I never lost a game after that match, right, and it's like, like you said, it's reframing it. Where it's like you got to figure out a way to turn the negative into the positive right what do you think you learned most about yourself throughout your competing career?

Speaker 2: 1:06:44

I. This is a. This is like the crazy thing about it. I feel like everything in my life like now, like all my habits and all my the way I eat, the way I talk to myself, the way I get ready in the morning, the way I keep my place clean, right Everything goes back to me competing right and I still chill, even like like I still join away every day and I try to get my mind as clear as possible. And why do I do that? Because, like, when I was competing, that's when I competed the best, and that's now when I live the best right and when I'm organized and put energy in and I'm focused right. That was all when I competed the best.

Speaker 2: 1:07:26

But now it's funny, right, I don't compete, but that's when my life I feel the best and, like my, I'm living the best life, right.

Speaker 2: 1:07:34

So everything I feel like for me, everything I like do in my life, pretty much comes from what I've learned from competing right and even like to my faith, where for my long time my life I would have like a like a lucky rabbit's foot type of faith I don't know if you know what that means which like well, if I just do this, this and this right, I'll win my match because god will like me more and then I he'll help me win my match right.

Speaker 2: 1:08:05

And even like that, like I learned the right way to have faith through my competing. I learned the right way to eat through my competing, the right way to work out. So I mean it's crazy. I mean, obviously, everything I've learned is through experience and the experience comes through my competing and what I did that made like what made me feel the best and what made me the best person, what made me the best competitor. And then also like I oh you know what I have been super disciplined, right, I lost that wrestling match probably because I was in discipline, probably because I did this right, the same thing in my life right, and that's what I'd say. It's just everything in my life, all my habits that I built and stuff like that, have come from competing.

Speaker 1: 1:08:52

Are you someone that can be told something, or do you have to experience everything to learn it? In terms of more like life lesson type things?

Speaker 2: 1:09:03

Yeah, I'm pretty. I'm pretty. I have to experience it pretty much and I learned a lot of things the hard way, like where it's like, wow. Like if I going even back from when I was a younger kid right, I was a kid that you're like, don't touch the stove, it's hot, don't touch the stove, it's hot, don't touch the stove and then I'd have to go up and touch it and then I'd be like I'm never touching the hot stove ever again, right, and that's what most of my life has been where it's like and don't get me wrong like I think everyone has regrets and I definitely look back when I was younger and even like in my college years.

Speaker 2: 1:09:40

I have regrets, without a doubt, right, but also I'm like I wouldn't have learned that lesson if I didn't experience that. Right, I had to, like I had to get burned by that hot stove in so many different aspects of my life until it's like I'm never doing that again because that was horrible, right. So I definitely wish I was more than probably wish. Like, because there's so many things where, like, someone told me something, something, a billion times and I went out there and I did it. I experienced the negative effect. I'm like wow, I wish I could just like listen to the person not doing it, but I just hasn't. Never been my personality.

Speaker 1: 1:10:17

It's funny how like genetics work, because I mean, obviously there's some things everybody just needs to experience to learn. But for the most part my entire life I learned from other people's experiences, like if someone told me like I just think, like an easy one, right is like you know, don't drink and drive. I never had to learn that like.

Speaker 1: 1:10:39

I was just like makes sense to me, not gonna do it yeah right, and so was just like makes sense to me not going to do it. Yeah, right, and so it's, but there were some things like I just had to experience on my own too, and I think there's like those, those like life lessons, right, and I think there's a number of life lessons that you just have to experience. I will add a little caveat to that, though, cause I listened to.

Speaker 1: 1:11:17

I will add a little caveat to that, though, because I listened to drawing a blank on his name the famous gambler that has like the party boats with all the women and Dan Bilzerian right, exactly like you, where he has to like learn from experience, because now he gives advice to people who are in a similar state of life as him, where he talks about, hey, having all the girls like really not, you know what it's cracked up to be like. Having one person is like, is like more fulfilling in life, basically, but he was like. You could never have told me that he was like if you hadn't experienced the life that I was living. I would never listen to a word that you say and I think there's a lot of power to that If you haven't lived like an elite wrestler's life to know what that's like.

Speaker 1: 1:11:53

It's going to be really hard for an elite wrestler to take your word on something unless you've done something like you know comparable, obviously. But it's like there's a really important component about having that knowledge and experience of having lived through something yeah, without a doubt.

Speaker 2: 1:12:10

I mean, I'm a huge believer in that and we go we literally just talked about too where it's the results right, like, not only like. So it is the negative aspect of it. Where it's like you have to experience it to to know right. But there's also the positive aspect of it where it's like you have to get the results to know right. Where, like being a coach or a mentor right where, right if you, if you won olympic gold medal, right, you can. It's like you've learned how to like. It's like you've learned how to like the process it takes right. You've learned the negative and positive it takes to get there right. So then you can give advice on that, just like when you fuck up, you can also give the advice on yeah, I did that and it didn't work out right.

Speaker 2: 1:13:02

But it's like both sides of the coin are through experiences, right and you learn lessons through them. Both right, and that's just life in general. But yeah, I mean that's what I think that's a big part about. Like do I have, do I regret being that way? Like I have to like learn the lesson the hard way in some aspects I do, but the same time, like, I think that's what life is right, where it's like, well, at least I'm living right, like I'm like I'm going out there and I'm gunslinging, and sometimes I like. Sometimes I'm like, wow, I'm so happy I was a gunslinger like that. And then other times I'm like, wow, I'm so happy, I was a gunslinger like that. And then other times I'm like, wow, that was a horrible mistake, but either way, I'm learning the lesson, I'm growing and I'm moving forward right.

Speaker 1: 1:13:51

Something to be said about that too that I think gets under-discussed is everyone wants to get rid of emotions like shame or embarrassment or guilt or you name it, but those are some of the biggest behavioral change emotions that you can experience, if I do something really stupid and everyone makes fun of me and laughs at me, probably not going to do that again, right?

Speaker 1: 1:14:13

And so we can't reject or minimize those things, because they are some of our greatest learning tools. In your own experience, you are a two-time All-American. What was the difference for you that kept you from being a national champion? Was it skill? Was it natural talent? Was it coaching? Was it some other element that you could never fully grasp that kept you from ultimately winning your number one priority?

Speaker 2: 1:14:51

yeah, I mean, I think that's that's a super tough question because it's like I I would say I, I don't know. You know what I mean. Where it's like I felt like I did everything that I possibly could have done. Where it's like obviously there wasn't a right, obviously I didn't grasp the concept right, and people always be like, oh, like it wasn't meant to be, it wasn't meant to be whatever. But like, say like it, like taking that out of it right, taking like fate out of it right. What's like, if I really like go through and look, it's tough, I don't know. You know what I mean, I just don't know. And the thing is it's hard to say that, oh, if this would happen or that would happen you know what I mean If I was like, if I was more talented, if I would have done this, if I would have done this, this, I could have been a national champion. It's like you just don't know, right, you don't know.

Speaker 2: 1:15:45

And there's this guy uh, I was just, I was just down in the bahamas, and there's this guy named mo garcia. He like he helped found, he, I think he was one of the founders of the club 11 and I asked him. I was like all right, if you were my age? Uh, what if, like, if you were my age? So you're 25 again? What advice would you give to your 25 year old self? This is what. Now I'm 26. Just to clear, and he goes, uh, he goes. There's no such thing as good decisions and bad decisions, there's just decisions. And he said that and I was like, and he, funny, goes. You don't know, like the decisions you've made in your past, you don't know if it's good or bad, right. And you hear tom brady, uh would talk about it. And dan bazarian, he also talked about it. The chinese farmer, have you heard of that story?

Speaker 1: 1:16:36

I have that is one of my favorite parables yeah, and it's so true.

Speaker 2: 1:16:41

It's like you really don't know, right, and I could tell you, if I would have done this, I would have been a national champion. If I would have done that, I would have been a national champion. But I don't know, right, you just don't know. You don't know the decisions you make and the outcome that's going to happen, right, and that's why I like you hold, like you can control the controllables that. Control what you can control, make adjustments, move forward, stuff like that. That's all you can do. That's the thing about life. You don't know if the decision you make is going to turn out bad or not. Even the decision, whatever happens to you, is going to turn out a certain way.

Speaker 2: 1:17:22

I could be like, if I was more talented, I would have been a. Oh, I wish if I was more talented I would have been national champ, right. But if I was more talented I might have not worked as hard. I might have right, if I was more successful when I was. I wasn't successful when I was growing up, right. So seventh, eighth grade, I didn't even place at the little kids state tournament, right, and I know I don't know for a fact.

Speaker 2: 1:17:41

Right goes back to the maybe thing, but like I'm pretty confident, if I was successful when I was in seventh and eighth grade, I would not have been successful in high school and college, right? So if I'm more talented, I'm probably successful in seventh and eighth grade, right? So then I'm probably not. So see, what I'm saying is like there's just nothing that I was looking back upon was like in my heart. Do I feel like I did everything I possibly could? Yes, but at the same time do I think I could have done things? Do you think I could have made adjustments? Like, looking back now, but at that time I just didn't know, right, I didn't know the adjustments I could have, like I could have made, and at that time I felt like I've done, did everything I possibly could have did to win a national title.

Speaker 1: 1:18:24

I love that you brought up the Chinese farmer, cause I use that parable. I've used on the show, I use with athletes I work with and I use that exact same line is you know, there's no good or bad decisions. Decisions just are like life, like like something happens to you. I say life is unbiased and unprejudiced, like you assign things meaning and they play out over time right. There's something that happened in a moment where you thought was terrible, the worst thing ever, and it probably led to something pretty phenomenal in your life, and I think that is such a powerful perspective. Do you ever lose sleep at night over your career? Are you pretty fulfilled with how you left it?

Speaker 2: 1:19:12

yeah, I honestly man, I literally I don't, like, I do not think about any of the matches I've ever wrestled, which is crazy.

Speaker 1: 1:19:22

It's an awesome place to be.

Speaker 2: 1:19:25

It's a great place. This is the thing, though I know that there's people who do stay up at night thinking about stuff, but I stay up at night thinking about different things. Everybody has regrets, right. It's just what kind of regret you have right. At the end of the day, it's like okay, yeah, I feel I'm happy. Do I wish I could be a national champ? Yes, but I don't stay up at night thinking, oh, I should have done this, I should have done that. I'm pretty fulfilled with it, just because it is what it is. I have two decisions. I have two decisions.

Speaker 2: 1:20:03

My college wrestling career is over because it is like it is what it is right. I have two decisions. I do decisions. Right. My college resume career is over. I can either be fulfilled and happy about it or I can my like what? Like, oh, I should have done better.

Speaker 2: 1:20:13

You know, I mean right and this is like it's good, but it's just decisions, right, it's just a response. You look back, you can't do anything about it. Now, what I'm gonna? I'm gonna lose my nights of sleep over something that I can't change. Like that's just. That's idiotic to me, you know. I mean I mean not idiotic because people, it happens to people. But, like, because I definitely have regrets with other things right where I definitely I for some, I like one of my biggest regrets is like when I was wrestling I was so and I I do have selfish tendencies still, but like I was so selfish that I treated other people really badly.

Speaker 2: 1:20:45

Right, and I regret that more than I regret have like performance regrets, if that makes sense, absolutely because I look back. I'm like you know and this is a quote it's like people forget what you said, people forget what you do and say, but people never forget what you say. People forget what you do and say, but people never forget how you made them feel Right. And that's so true, man, and that's why I look back. I'm like, well, I made a lot of people feel shitty because I was so selfish and so like focused, and it was like like, well, I've wrestled this weekend, like I have to do it this way. You know what I it this way, you know I mean.

Speaker 2: 1:21:27

But looking back, I'm like I definitely could have. I think I could have right, I think I could have got the same results while also treating people nicely. Yeah, better, exactly. And so I mean, like I said, right, I might not have, like, I might not stay up at night with the regrets of my performance, but everyone has regrets and everything. Everyone has different things they have to overcome, right, and I mean that's the cool thing about life, though, right.

Speaker 2: 1:21:50

So I look back and there's nothing I can do about. There's nothing I can do about my wrestling career Right, but I can man up, make adjustments, move forward. There's nothing I can do about treating people poorly in the past, but I can man up, make adjustments, move forward. There's nothing I can do about treating people poorly in the past, but I can man up, make adjustments, move forward, right. So no matter what happens or whatever your regrets are, whatever stage of life, you can always take it on the chin like a man, make adjustments. So it's not the same, right, and I still have some serious selfish tendencies, without a doubt, but I've learned from my mistakes, right. So when I'm super selfish, right, and I'm about to be mean to someone, right, I got to catch myself, make the adjustment and then move forward. So I'll keep on doing that.

Speaker 1: 1:22:35

Man, make adjustments, move forward. Well, I can't appreciate you coming on enough. Man Was certainly a blast to get you on. I know we talked about it a couple times, but, uh, thanks for coming on. If people want to reach out to you, or if there's anything that you're working on right now that you want to promote, you know, please take the next time to tell us what's going on yeah, whatever man.

Speaker 2: 1:22:53

Hey, if anyone. Oh hi. So number one uh, open a new club in peter rabbits, iowa mission athletics. Right, there's a lot of people involved mark ironside, matt m McDonough, carter Happel. I thought I should probably promote that folks. Number two if anyone's staying in Iowa City and needs an Airbnb on the guy, stay in my Airbnb.

Speaker 1: 1:23:20

I appreciate it, brother. Thanks for coming on the show man listeners, thanks for tuning in tune in next week. Download the pod, subscribe to our YouTube channel. Check us out at athleticfortitudecom. Five stars only, baby. Appreciate you, max, see ya, thanks Collins.