Grief, Grit, and Grace: How Hannah Mears Found Her Voice in Sports Media

We trace the arc from unpaid reps to a trusted role in pro sports with Hannah Mears, then go deeper into grief, faith, and the boundaries that keep a public life humane. The heart of the conversation is perspective: preparing harder, saying no, and honoring the human behind every highlight.

• early-career grind, unpaid reps, and freelancing
• learning sports betting and proving competence through preparation
• navigating stereotypes and using presence as an advantage
• social media boundaries, intention, and ignoring trolls
• role model by being authentic and kind to yourself
• interviewing with empathy and remembering players are human
• losing a brother, carrying grief during a season, and crying in safe spaces
• panic, recovery rituals, and finding faith again
• the power of saying no and protecting time for solitude
• reframing “what’s next” and finding contentment where you stand
• squeezing the most from one role before moving on
• why trust and storytelling are the best parts of the job
• giving back and practicing gratitude through the holidays

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Chapters

• 0:00 Life Balance And Early Hustle
• 2:10 Five Years Of Unpaid Reps
• 5:20 Freelancing, Agents, And Industry Nuance
• 8:50 Passion As Fuel And Refresh Moments
• 12:30 Finding Confidence Through Sports Betting
• 15:20 Navigating Stereotypes And Over-Preparation
• 19:30 Social Media Boundaries And Intentionality
• 24:00 Role Model, Humility, And Being Seen
• 27:20 Humanity In Clubhouses And Tough Questions
• 31:40 Grief: Losing A Brother And Showing Up
• 38:30 Panic, Permission To Cry, And Recovery
• 43:30 Anger, Boundaries, And Daily Grace
• 48:10 Faith Lost, Signs Found, Faith Renewed
• 53:00 Writing The Story Of Loss And Meaning
• 57:10 When To Share And Helping Others Heal
• 1:01:00 The Power Of No And Protecting Time
• 1:06:10 Solitude, Peace, And Self-Security
• 1:10:40 Enoughness, What’s Next, And Presence
• 1:16:20 Squeezing The Most From One Role
• 1:21:00 Trade-Offs, Desire, And Competitive Ego
• 1:26:00 Why The Job Matters: Trust And Story
• 1:27:00 Meeting The Boys And Industry Camaraderie

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

How do you balance your regular life with this schedule?

SPEAKER_00: 0:03

Um you don't. You just like have a bunch of people who are like super understanding about like hey, like I don't have time for like anything during the season. I mean, my family's really great and they watch my dog for me and things like that. And I'm thankful that like when I'm home, I'm home. Like when I'm home, I'm home in Pittsburgh. Yeah. And that's the nicest part of it because not a lot of people, I think, get the get that luxury.

SPEAKER_02: 0:29

Yeah. How many uh hours do you think of unpaid work you put in before you're finally like this paid off?

SPEAKER_00: 0:36

Are we on the record?

SPEAKER_02: 0:38

Yeah, we're on the record.

SPEAKER_00: 0:39

Is this started? Did we start the podcast?

SPEAKER_02: 0:41

I never want you to know. That's okay. Yes, we've started officially for anyone listening.

SPEAKER_00: 0:46

Okay. Um hours of unpaid work. Well, like I'm a full-time employee, so I don't know. So I would say I mean, I feel like it's all paid. I get paid, I get a salary. I am supposed to show up and do what I need to do. However, I will say this it's not like you're not getting paid for things, but in baseball, there, you know, it's your job. So you're getting paid, obviously, to be there. There's so much. Okay, okay. I was gonna say, I was like, I get paid for everything I knew. No, no, dude. Okay, so let's take it back like five years ago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20

When was the last time you were on the podcast?

SPEAKER_00: 1:23

Yeah, yeah. It's good to be back. There was a lot. I was working, I would say, eight jobs at once for a lot of years. And yeah, there was so much that you felt like you should do just for like promotion of something, whether it was like going on a podcast or doing something for like$30 a game just to get repetition and just to get yourself out there. There was a lot that I was doing. I mean, where I was making money sometimes was either wagressing or substitute teaching. Like that was my income. And then the stuff I did with sports reporting was just to get repetition. Like there was no money in the beginning of it. Very, very little, if anything, a tank of gas to get me to where I needed to go, if anything. Um yeah, a lot of a lot of free labor, I would say. A lot of not necessarily free, but just a lot of things that go, you don't do it for the money at first. You do it for the experience, you do it to get better, you do it for the exposure, for the networking. There's a lot of trade-off, I feel like in this industry, you have to do at first. And so I feel like I did a lot of that for about five years of my life for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 2:28

A lot of high achievement is like the unseen hours. People just kind of see you on TV, but they don't see everything that led up to it. No similar or no different than an athlete, where it's like you just see game day or you see the production. You don't see everything that went into it. When you first started, were you aware of what you were getting yourself into?

SPEAKER_00: 2:47

Yes. Yes and no, I would say. So, yes, because I always knew it was gonna be really hard work. Yes, because I always knew the hours were crazy. Yes, I knew there was going to be a lot of sacrifice. You know, all those things. You hear all those things. You knew there was gonna be little money, all of those things. What I wasn't as exposed to at first, because like my whole life I grew up thinking I was gonna be a doctor. Like I had no idea that this was gonna be eventually like my passion, right? Like I just was gonna do the thing that I thought would be the safe route or what everyone told you to do. So when I got a little bit more into the industry, maybe through college, toward the end of my college career, I found out about freelance and freelancing. And I think that's the kind of stuff you don't really know about or expect is this is how you're gonna make the bulk of your money, maybe at some point or maybe forever. A lot of people still freelance. And I don't think there was a ton said about that young in my career. In college, I didn't really know that was a thing, but that's how a lot of people in this industry do make their money. So I think those were the things that I didn't expect were the different nuances of the industry I was very unaware of. I also still have never personally worked with an agent yet. I don't know if that'll come or when that'll come. I've heard the good, the bad, all of it. And I've like looked into that kind of stuff because people tell you about it. But I've been very fortunate I haven't had to go that route yet. Not that it's a bad thing. It's just it's been kind of nice to not have to rely on something else yet. But the nuances of the industry are the things that I think even now I'm still learning because you don't know until you're in it. Like you really don't. So those are what I didn't expect, I would say.

SPEAKER_02: 4:28

I had this moment, my first freshman football camp, where obviously, you know, you come up through high school, get recruited, whatever, and you're you're about the life, right? Which you clearly are. But you have to learn things on the fly. And I'll never forget, I'm laying in bed during one of our few breaks during camp, and I'm staring at my wall, unable to sleep, just thinking, how am I gonna do four more years of this? And literally just like it hits you like you're shell-shocked in a way sometimes. But like, you know, at least in my own mind, like I knew I was gonna figure it out, I knew I was gonna do whatever like it takes. For you, kind of in those like moments, even now where you're like learning, you're like, How am I gonna do this? What keeps you going? Do you have certain processes, certain things that you rely on? Mentors, like what keeps you going and what keeps you sane throughout that process?

SPEAKER_00: 5:20

It might sound cliche, but just the passion for it. Because there's there has been moments like that. I would say when I was younger and I was, there was one point, a typical day in my life during the week at some points, where I would, when I was working for the Penguins, the Steelers, and KDK all at once, I would go to the Penguins from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. I'd go to KDK from 2 p.m. to midnight. And then the next day, I'd have to work a high school football game in the evening for the Steelers. And I would be there around, I don't know, we'd leave around like three, right? Depending on how far the game was. I would edit after I shot everything, was on camera, did everything at the game with the people I was with, working alongside them. We'd go back to the facility and I'd edit till 4 a.m. to make sure that video was able to go out at 10 a.m. the next day after it got approved and everything. And then I would go to KDK again and work the early shift all day long, from like, I don't know, let's say like noon to midnight, it felt like. And that was a rotation of my life every single day. And sometimes that was really, really hard where you were just like, is it ever gonna happen? Like, what am I doing? But I did love what I do. And so it was sometimes where you would just you do one interview. You'd do one interview, or you'd have one gig that you really loved, or something that you like finally felt like you got to share your opinion on. And that's all you needed sometimes for that refresh. It's sort of like like a really good metaphor for it is hitting the refresh button on your internet, right? You could be scrolling and scrolling and scrolling, not looking, not finding what you need, not finding what you need, hit the refresh button, and all of a sudden everything's like, okay, we're back. And sometimes that happened for me when I was working for Westmoreland Sportsnet, and everything was, I loved working with those guys. They gave me my first real sideline shot. And it was the most fun I've had. And some of those people are still like family to me to this very day. And I remember sometimes, you know, you feel you're not gonna be making a ton of money. You're like feeling like, oh my gosh, what am I doing? And then I you'd interview someone in like eighth grade and it'd be the coolest moment of their life. And you just made their day, their parents' day. And I think that's all I really needed sometimes. You just need a little that little refresh, that little moment that makes you realize it's all worth it and I'm in the right path, and this is what I want to do. Because it can be hard and it can be tiring. But, you know, I'm really thankful that I don't have to wake up every day and, you know, it's not life or death in my hands. Like it's sports. I'm not performing heart surgery here. And one of my mentors in college always told me that where, you know, I was really stressed. I was a perfectionist, I wanted to do everything right. And he would always say, like, okay, pause. It's not heart surgery today. Nobody's going to die because you messed up a word in an interview or stumbled over something or didn't have the most perfect um delivery of something. It's not heart surgery. And so I remind myself of that all the time when I'm having a day where I'm a little tired or I don't feel at my best. I'm like, I'm not a surgeon. Someone's life isn't in my hands today. It's going to be okay. So, like, I think that's a really good way to look at it a lot of times. It's just perspective.

SPEAKER_02: 8:23

Yeah, just reframing that perspective. Did you ever have an aha moment where you were like, I'm pretty good at this? Like, I'm I can go places with this.

SPEAKER_01: 8:32

Hmm. That's a good question. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 8:37

I want to say maybe the sport, honestly, maybe the maybe one thing was like the sports betting when I got into sports betting. Because I knew nothing about sports betting when I was hired to do sports betting. And that was challenging in itself. But I had success with it because I put in so much work to my predictions and studying and watching everything and making sure I was up to date and educated and found a way to deliver things in a way that was interesting, insightful, but quick and what people wanted. And when I found out I was actually like decent at that, it's something that I had no experience in, no background in, had never done before, never was really super interested in, and then found a passion for that. Um, and then became kind of good at it. I was like, okay, maybe I can do this because when you do the things you're scared to do and you're succeeding at them, you're realizing maybe you actually do have a knack for something, right? Like you might actually have something here. It's not just a coincidence. And it also made me feel really good that I wasn't just, I don't know, a face on a screen talking like people want to put you as a female into a box in sometimes. I was actually like intelligent. I knew I could do this stuff. This was on my own, and there was concrete evidence that, you know, I was doing good at something. Um, and I can do something. And I remember my brother telling me one time he was so proud because he was like, he was very into sports betting. And he goes, All the guys at work like always talk about your mirrorzy minutes and like betting. And it was so funny. And um, and he was like, I'm so proud that like they say, like my sister is like intelligent and she's good at her job. And it's not just because of like what she's wearing or how she looks. It's like sometimes the sports betting industry can be really stereotyped in that way. And women were originally portrayed in that way in that space, and it's changing, thankfully. But it made me really proud to be like, oh, good, like that's how people see me, not just just some talking face on a screen who's delivering information. It was like, no, that's my work. Like I do that and he's proud of it. The people that are in that space every day are proud of it. So ironically, I would say maybe that was like my aha moment of like, I can do this and I'm good at this, and people think that.

SPEAKER_02: 10:49

How do you handle being dealing with the stereotypes of being a female? Like, you know, that that you took us there. So like I want to go there.

SPEAKER_00: 10:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 10:57

How do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_00: 10:58

It's funny because sometimes it is what you make it. There are challenges to being a female in the industry. I know so many people want to say, like, oh, it's changing. And it is. Thankfully, it is. But there are also advantages to being a female. So I think the way you deal with it is seeing it A for what it is. It is there, but choosing what to dwell on. So if you want to go into work every day thinking you're at a disadvantage, you're gonna be at a disadvantage and you're going to be upset with yourself and you're gonna feel like I'm a woman, I can't do this, I can't do that. But I choose to go into work every day being like I am a female. I can, I do feel like sometimes in my career, I can get people to be more vulnerable and open because I do feel like female, a female presence sometimes is also really disarming. And so I think there's an advantage to a female walking into a room of men who only ever see men all day long and being like, oh, it's kind of a breath of fresh air. And sometimes you have to take advantage of that. I do think there's situations that are you're at a disadvantage for. People are always going to be commenting on your looks, on your clothes. They're always going to be assuming you don't know what you're talking about instantly. So you have to be so prepared. I will be the most prepared person in the room, or at least to my knowledge, I would prepare my butt off for things so that nobody could question whether or not I know what I'm talking about and what I'm doing. I'm always looking for different angles. I'm always looking for different information. I don't want to just be the person who shows up and tells a story because someone tells me to. I'm going to be the person who shows up and tells a story because I did the research, I did the facts, I had the conversation, I put in the work. And I think there's still challenges to being a woman in this industry. I think there are still rooms that we're still working on breaking down doors to get into. I think there's still a level of, you know, respect and trust that you have to work a little bit harder to gain. But I also do think there's a ton of advantages, and you have to take advantage of the things that you have because you're a woman in the industry and that you get to do. And so it's sort of just perspective. How you look at it is how it's going to affect your life and knowing what to do in those situations. But you've got to be strong. You've got to be strong because you can be so proud of something you do and tell. And you're still gonna have people that comment and be like, get her off the screen, her voice is annoying. What's she doing? We're so irritated. She brings nothing to the broadcast, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And you just have to brush those people off. Like it's it's gonna happen. It's always gonna happen. People are always gonna care what you look like, what you wear, all these things. I don't know why. I can't imagine that being my day-to-day life where I care so much about somebody else in that way, but you know, publicity is bad publicity, I guess.

SPEAKER_02: 13:42

How do you deal with like the negative comments with social media? Because being yourself in front of the camera, having to deal with everything that you just said. And unfortunately, everybody has an opinion on social media these days. How much does that actually impact you? Are you able to pretty quickly swipe past those things?

SPEAKER_00: 14:01

Yes. I started, I'm thankful I started this at a young age. This is my biggest, one of my biggest pieces of advice to young females looking to get in the industry all the time because social media can be such a trap. And it's becoming even more of a trap because I do believe there is a benefit of having a following on social media for people in our industry. There just is. And it's proven it's there. Influencers are getting jobs, people get this over and rightfully so, right? That's how business works. But there's an advantage to it. So there's also a danger in it. And I made a decision in college that my social medias would be just about work, with sure sprinkling a little bit of my personal life here and there. But I never really post my body on Instagram. I never post things that could be deemed like controversial in terms of how I look because I want when people come to my page to watch my content, to know I'm about my business, to know I'm serious about my career. And not that posting that other stuff makes you not serious about it. I just never wanted to have to deal with it personally. There's a ton of females out there who are totally confident and cool and do that. And I wish that could be me in a way. Like I wish I could, but like I just never wanted to deal with it because social media wasn't my thing to begin with. I don't really love it. So I don't want to deal with it. But my biggest piece of advice to young girls always is do you want 1,000 followers of people who don't care about you, they care about how you look, or do you want that one follower who could change your life because of they respect your career and your work? And one day in college, I got to have a sit-down dinner with Jay Billis, who very respected broadcaster in the space. He and I gained a professional relationship after that, where um he's been on my podcast before when I had a podcast. You know, I've been able to talk to him a couple of times over the years. And he followed my Instagram page where I posted all of my work at the time with Penn State Athletics. That was the coolest moment of my life because somebody as respected as him followed my work. And that meant a great deal to me. And so anytime I would feel the public pressure to need to post my body or how I looked because everybody else was, and that's how you got likes and followers. I remembered what if Jay was scrolling through his Instagram feed and his wife saw that? Like, what would she think? Truthfully, he has a daughter. And I'd be like, no, I don't need to post that because I want somebody as, you know, respected as Jay to look at my page and be like, oh, I wonder what Hannah did today interviewing somebody. Not that he probably cares at all, but that was what my mindset was. I'd rather have one follower who respects my work and what I post than 800 frat guys who thought my posts were hot. Truthfully, that was always my mindset. So that way, whoa, my bad. That way when I do post things now, the comments don't bother me, the things don't bother me because I know it's about what I'm doing, my work, what I'm passionate about, what I'm good at. And I'm not there for the reaction of it. I'm there because I'm proud of it. And so you can't post for the reaction of things. So I know people are gonna comment things as they think it bothers me, but I'm like, I can go deep in a Reddit thread about myself and it doesn't bother me. Like, whatever. Like, say what you want to say. Deleted, blocked, without a question. If you don't, if you don't want, here's my thing. If you don't like what I post, you don't like who I am, why do you follow me? You don't have to see what I do. It's that simple. So yeah, I don't think it does bother me really. Like I've come to a really healthy place with social media that I'm extremely proud of.

SPEAKER_02: 17:37

That's pretty awesome. I know a lot of people, not even in your industry, but just in athletics that really struggle with that. I know athletes that really struggle with that stuff, especially like the negative commentary of like, you know, the I'm gonna like pick on a demographic, right? Of like beer drinking, like old white men that just sit in front of a TV all day that feel the need to be armchair quarterbacks to comment on looks of commentators. And it's like, why do you care about that person's opinion? Now, obviously, like anytime someone says something negative, like you feel it, but at the end of the day, like speaking with athletes, it's like, what about that person is changing your life? What about their perspective is helping you get better? Like, and to be able to learn the concepts and the skills, to be like, I don't care what you say, and to have a small circle, a small group of mentors or people that you trust that you can go to for necessary feedback, getting better. Those are like the skill sets I think people really struggle with in the social media world in particular is because people are looking for those clicks, those likes, the rapid followers without real intention. And I think that's the key part in all this is you did it with intention.

SPEAKER_00: 18:48

Post whatever you want to post. I don't care what people post on social media. If you're happy with what you post, heck yeah. But like you said, do it with an intention and do it with confidence and do it with purpose and do it to a point where you're proud of it. Why are you posting it? Is it for someone else or yourself? Because I think that's where the line is blurred. If you want to post great pictures of yourself because you feel good about it and you want to, by all means you should. Everybody should, right? It's your platform, do with it what you want. But if you're doing it for other intentions, that's when the comments are going to start to bother you because deep down you're insecure about it. And so the more confident you can be with your purpose of why you're putting stuff on social media, the less the comments are going to affect you. 100%.

SPEAKER_02: 19:26

Do you feel a pressure to be in an image or icon for young women to look up to?

SPEAKER_00: 19:33

I don't know if it's a pressure, but I've started to realize it. I've started to see the reality of it this year. Um, because at the end of the day, like I I go home and for example, I'll get to the actual answer of this, but let me put a good foundation here. The other day I um was doing a Bible study and I called my uncle after who's a deacon, and I asked him a question about it because I was a little bit confused. It was a tough passage to understand. I wanted to like dive a little deeper. And he was like, Well, it's it's honestly talking a lot about humility and what humility is. So he asked me, he was like, What does humility mean to you? And it, you know, we talked through it a little bit because that's a hard, that's a that's a really broad question. And he goes, Well, Hannah, humility is the other day you were just interviewing Paul Skeens on live TV for hundreds of thousands of millions of people potentially. And then you're calling me on your way back from your grandparents' house where you just cleaned her toilet. Like, that's humility. That's what that is. You're you're just like everybody else. At the end of the day, you might have this really cool job, but your grandmother needs you to clean her toilet. So you're at her house cleaning her toilet the next day and like cleaning her house and doing all like these things because you're a normal human being like everybody else. And um, he was like, that's that's humility, right? So to me, on a day-to-day basis, when I'm on TV, I'm just me. Like, I don't realize that young girls were even looking at me as somebody, or young men were looking at me as somebody, or anybody really in the world being like, Oh, you're like a celebrity. No, like I'm I'm just cleaning my Bubba's toilet just like the rest of you. But I did start to feel, I guess the way you phrase it, like the weight of it this year when I got like a letter from a little girl in the mail. And she was really excited that I looked natural on TV, even though she had a funny way of saying it, where it was just like the most 11 or 12-year-old thing I've ever heard. And I was like, oh wow, she sees that you don't have to wear like a ton of makeup or change your face or change how you look. You can be yourself and still be on TV. And that was really cool to her. So I think then it hit me in a way where it was like, because you can really, you're your own worst critic, right? So when you're constantly looking at yourself on TV, and I'm sure you started to feel this way too, doing stuff where you're like, oh, like I should have looked this way or I should have worn this, or why did I look like that? And for me, sometimes it's like, man, I should have put more makeup on or should have done my hair differently. But I'm like, it's 98 degrees. I'm covering a baseball game. Like a girl can only do so much, okay? And but it just like it reminds you to not be so hard on yourself. And to know that the younger generation was realizing that, even if I didn't know it, meant a lot to me. And so now I do feel a pressure to be kinder to myself, I think is what it is. I don't feel the pressure to be like an icon or something, you know, all of us are out there. But if I'm kind to myself, authentic and true to who I am and who God wanted me to be, then I feel like I'm doing the next generation of young women justice. Um, and then you become unintentionally someone that they can look up to and know that being their self is completely fine. So I don't know if it's necessary a pressure, but it's certainly a privilege to know I'm in a position where whether I want to be or not, I am probably somebody who's going to impact younger women.

SPEAKER_02: 22:49

When I started working with athletes on like what I call engineering your identity to be the type of person that you want to be, it was actually one of the subtle greatest things of that was it forced me to be more accountable to myself as well. Knowing that when I'm teaching young athletes and young men and women, hey, this is the process of how you do some of these things, it forced me to be accountable in the sense of if I'm telling them to do all these things, everything that I want to be and the type of person I want to be, I have to do as well, or else I'm being inauthentic. And so I think that's like one of the cool things that can be misconstrued. And it's just a simple reframe, like you've talked about a number of times, is when you're in the public eye, it gives you the opportunity to be more of yourself in understanding that being yourself will naturally the downstream of that is impacting others in a healthy and positive way.

SPEAKER_00: 23:43

Yeah. It no, and it's so, it's so true. And it's it's just like the old cliche of like you're saying, you know, if you're gonna, if you're gonna do it, tell someone else to do it, then you have to do it yourself too. You can't just preach it and not do it. Because then it is inauthentic, and then people don't want to do it. So, no, a hundred percent. It's certainly a privilege to be in the position I am, but I didn't, I didn't know how much of an impact you can have on somebody or are having. So always remember to be kind to yourself because there are young people watching, whether like you know it or not. I'm sure there's people, young kids that even they'll come across your podcast and scrolling on Instagram, and you have to remember what you say and do. Like everything does have an impact, whether you want it or not.

SPEAKER_02: 24:24

You talked a little bit about this a moment ago and being a human. I think people look at the sports world and they forget everybody involved is human.

SPEAKER_04: 24:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 24:34

And when you go into the interview process with some of these athletes, whether it's a good moment, a bad moment, how do you take into account the humanity factor when you're having these conversations?

SPEAKER_00: 24:44

I don't know if it's something you intentionally do. I think it's something as a human with a good heart that you just naturally do because it can be really hard, right? Like there were some things that happened this year where there were very human sides of the game that were shown. And you have to understand that these people are human, so they're gonna react. They might be a little emotional, and you have to know that they're probably not gonna wanna give you some big, remarkable Pulitzer prize-winning quote from what just happened, because they're going to react as any human being should with empathy, with sympathy, with emotion. So being able to identify that is the first step. Just know the situation you're in and know at the end of the day, these people have to also go home and like live with this moment. And know it's just sort of being able to separate, separate your job from being a human being and knowing in that moment, just like ask yourself, is it really worth asking a question that might be slightly inappropriate in that setting really worth the repercussions of how this could make a human being feel in that moment? And how, in turn, they're gonna look at you forever. So I don't know if there's a perfect way to answer that in terms of how you handle it. You just have to remember to be a human being too. And if you were in that position, how would you feel if this is what you were being asked? It's a lot of that role we were just talking about of just put yourself in that person's shoes. I don't care how much money they're making, I don't care how much status they have. At the end of the day, they are a human being who's going home and sitting down and probably being 10 times harder on themselves than you could ever imagine anyway. So, like, is it worth it for you? Because I've seen a lot of times, I guess in clubhouse environments and locker room environments, there'll be people who ask a question, then the next day they try to go up to that player and like apologize or do this. And that's the right thing to do, but they don't have to forgive you if they don't want to. Like that was if it was wrong, it was wrong. And I think that's when people also sometimes let their humanity slip away. But I do believe also ever, those are learning moments for everybody because people, it is very easy to forget that these people are human beings. It is very easy for people to forget that. And I've seen it happen so much. So I think the only way you can do it is just naturally be a good person and just know if that was you or somebody you loved and cared about, how would you feel if somebody was, how would you want to be treated in that situation? That's the best way you can look at it.

SPEAKER_02: 27:10

Has it always been innate to you, or did you have a learning moment like some of these other people?

SPEAKER_00: 27:14

I think it was always pretty innate to me. I think that's one of the things that I have in my arsenal of how I do my job is I'm a human being. I'm very empathetic, sympathetic. Maybe even if it's too a fault sometimes, maybe I care too much about people. Um, and it is sometimes can be hard or challenging, or if you're in a position where you have to ask the tough questions. But I think that was something that just always came natural to me. I mean, I was raised with a family who, you know, you treat everybody equally, you treat people with kindness, you lead with your heart. And I think those are things that I just try to remember and take into my daily life. And at the end of the day, I'll never walk away disappointed in myself for being for choosing to be a good human over choosing to, you know, maybe try to get that quote out of somebody that is gonna cause a stir. It's like at the end of the day, I can go to sleep at night knowing I was I made a choice being a good human.

SPEAKER_02: 28:04

No, I know you just you bring up family, and I know it's been a really tough year for you. You know, I I'd love to, you know, hear you kind of talk about how you know the loss of your brother has impacted you and how you were able to continue to show up every day. And when you watch you on TV, never would have known that you were going through such a hardship. And to be able to bring the best out of yourself while probably feeling the worst you've ever felt.

SPEAKER_00: 28:33

Yeah, this year was really heavy and at times felt like a blur. And truthfully, I don't, I think that's one of the misconceptions of this industry of sports and of life, right? Anytime you have an interaction with a human being, you have to remember they might be going through something that day that you have no idea about. That could be your clerk at the grocery store. That could be the your coworker, that could be your doctor, that could be your lawyer, that could be the person showing up on your TV screen. It could be anybody. And I think this year has taught me that and reminded me that more than anything because I went through that. My brother passed away about a year ago, November 7th. And it, he was my best friend in the entire world. I've never really like talked about this either. So sorry if it makes me emotional, but it completely changed my life. It changed my family's life. And nobody has a roadmap for grief. And nobody has a roadmap for something that difficult. Nobody has a roadmap to show you how to go through that at all. It there isn't a right, there isn't a wrong. There just is. And there's a constant sadness and there's a constant cloud. And there's just moments of you remember the loss. You know, you'll start doing your day to day life and then you remember the loss, and all of a sudden you're stuck again. There's weird moments of everyone's living their life and you're stuck. And you don't know how the world's still turning because you don't feel like you can go on. And grief is just a really, really weird thing like that. And then there's really things you show up and do because you're super passionate and your brother would be so proud of you. And so you're ready to do it and you're taking on the world and you feel like a superhero. And then there's the come down of that too. So it's it was a whirlwind to say the least. My brother died in November. My grandpa died in January. So it was just a flood of family grief and dealing with everything and not knowing how to move on and dealing with the pieces that come after all of it. And then in February, I had to go down to spring training for a month, which was probably a good thing because I had to just sort of pour myself into my work to not forget, because you won't ever forget, but start to find a little bit of purpose of your daily life instead of just sitting every day and being depressed and not knowing how to go on. But I think going through a season of grief within a season of baseball and work was really, really challenging. And I don't think people know it because you wouldn't know it. I don't let people know it. But there were points where I had to be okay knowing I was probably going to cry that day at some point. Um, and you just had to cry. And there was one time at spring training, it was Paul Skeen's first day pitching at spring training in a game. And I'll never forget it. Because I knew one thing that was really hard for me through grief was not being able to escape, escape crowds of people, escape noise. Like a lot of time in my grief, I needed to be alone and I needed to be alone in that moment. At that time, I needed to be like I needed to be alone by myself with my dog, like no parents, no family, nothing. Like alone was what I needed. And I was never able to be alone during baseball season a lot. Like you are so quite the opposite with that. You have people constantly around you and noise, and things are moving really fast and it's chaotic, and you have nowhere to escape. There was no escape. So I remember at spring training, Paul, Paul's first day pitching in spring, the media that was there ended up being five times more than what it is on a daily basis. And our spring training media room is really small. And I walked in and immediately my body like shut down. It was like panic, straight panic of, oh my gosh, I have nowhere to go. I can't escape. I'm not gonna be able to be alone. What do I do? And your brain's spinning and spinning and spinning. And I like as soon as I walked in, I was like, I'm gonna cry. I'm gonna sob. Like, oh my gosh, this is a lot. And I ran to the back of the room where our PR guy was. I looked at him, I looked at him straight in the face, like really calmly. And I was like, I'm really, really sorry. I'm about to cry. I need to go stand and stare at this wall and cry. I'm just gonna need a minute. I said, I'm okay. Please don't make a big deal out of it. I don't want people to know, but I can't stop it. It's going to happen. And he's like, okay. And I just started crying. Someone brought me a box of tissues, wiped out my face, was like, okay, all right, it's time to go cover a baseball game. And like that happened so much and so much more than people knew. But I was so afraid to cry because I was like, are people gonna think of it as she can't do her job now? Oh my gosh, she's crying again, she's sad again. So then you're scared to be vulnerable. But in that moment, it was big for me to like tell the people around me, like, hey, I'm not okay. I will be fine. And I 100% can do my job and I can do it really well. But I'ma just need a minute because I'm human and I I'm grieving and I don't understand grief. And if we understood grief, we'd have a cure for it. So that, you know, and we don't because it's human. But there were so many times throughout the baseball season where I would go to the bathroom before I'd go live. I would cry, I'd fix my makeup, I'd breathe, I'd go out, and I'd be like, okay, Pirate Sands, like, let's do this thing. But the scary part of that is you then put yourself in very high and low situations where you're at the lowest of lows, and then your mood you put to the highest of highs, and then you crash afterwards because you're so tired from having to like make yourself be really, really happy when your brain is telling you you're really, really not. And it's not to say I wasn't like authentic to who I am, because I still do everything as who I am as a person, but internally, you know, you can't be crying on TV. Um, so you had a lot of those moments to yourself. There were moments of the season where I was, I learned to manage anger. There was a part of grief I went through where I was really angry all the time at stupid things. Like I had no tolerance for really stupid, petty things. And I still don't. And maybe that's something that this has changed me for forever. But people, you know, it would be as stupid as somebody like saying, like, oh, this is ridiculous. Why do we have to wait here? Or why do we have to do this? Or they're taking forever, or of course it's this. And I would be like, really? Like, that's that's what we're gonna choose to put our energy toward today. That's what you're gonna be mad about. And I kept having this thing in me where I was like, I wanted to just scream at people, being like, you have no idea what people are going through. And there's so many worse things that could happen in this world because I was angry that my brother was gone. And I felt like it was the worst, I mean, it is the worst thing that's ever happened to me, but it doesn't mean someone else hasn't gone through something so much worse. But I let a lot of that control how I was feeling on a day-to-day basis. And so there was like a couple of moments where I had to like stop myself, look in the mirror, and be like, you can't project your anger onto other people. You need to keep it in you. But those are all things that were really hard to learn along the way when you're in a professional environment and expected to act and be a certain way, but really be struggling to heal on the inside because you'd walk in that day and you're so freaking sad. And you want people to know that you're sad, but you can't have them know you're sad. So it was a challenge. And I think it's still going to be a challenge. I'm never gonna show up to work every day and be okay, but or know how to deal with it because I still don't. But it was not easy. It was not easy. And there were so many times where I wanted to just scream at people, and especially because these players and they become like your family, they're all like brothers to me. And there were times that I just wanted to look at them and be like, you know, your day could be so much worse. But I mean, and obviously, like no one's ever done anything to where it's like that. I just would let that anger kind of take over sometimes and that sadness fill me a lot. And it became really, really exhausting. I was tired so much because I was constantly fighting the day every day to wake up and not be sad. But I was sad a lot. And it was really hard. And it's hard because you don't know, you can't tell people that.

SPEAKER_02: 36:39

How did you control the voice in your head? Like when you're going in those high to low, low to high moments, the calm down. What are you saying to yourself to direct your energy in the right way?

SPEAKER_00: 36:51

I don't know if there was ever anything perfect I did say to myself or I could say to myself. You just had to let yourself feel. You, you had to like, there was a point in my grief where I completely shut off my emotions, which was a really scary thing to do as a human. And that might sound dumb to people, but your brain is so much more powerful than you think it is. And I think my defense mechanism was not to feel. I stopped feeling completely, like for months. And it was, I don't know, it was just my reaction of like, so that way I wouldn't cry. But when you don't feel, that's scary too, because then you feel it all at once. And then you feel it in extremes. So I think, you know, I just had to remind myself at the end of the day, like, I'm okay, I'm still here. My brother would be so proud of me and he would want me to do this. And like, that's what got me through it. My family was at home, and you know, one thing they looked forward to if they were having a bad day, my dad couldn't wait to turn on the pirate game and see me. So, you know, being strong for those people and being reminded of that. But yeah, there was so much this season that people have no idea about. But it's just, it was a really good reminder of you never know what somebody's going through. And there, there isn't anything you can say to yourself in those moments. You just have to give yourself a lot of grace because it is there, like I said, there are people in every walk of life, every career path, every job who are going through the same thing, if not worse, every single day. And it'd be just be little reminders of that to yourself. Life can always be worse. Everybody's going through something. You just gotta sometimes just look at yourself in the mirror, let yourself feel, and get out there and keep going because that's what you're good at doing and that's what you love. And doing what you love is a privilege on this earth. So do it while you have the opportunity.

SPEAKER_02: 38:41

One of my favorite entrepreneurs, and I'm just gonna call him an entrepreneur. I don't know his exact title. His name's Sahil Bloom. He always says, everybody's going or fighting a battle that you can't see. Every single person. And to just treat everybody with a little bit more kindness and empathy goes a long way. And, you know, in your journey, when you're a performer, even if you just go to work regularly, there's performer you, and then there's the human you. And being able to orchestrate the different personalities or identities. Like you said, not that you're being inauthentic, but it's just a portion of who you are. And being able to bring your best out regardless of what you feel. And you talked about it earlier, you're not doing heart surgery today. Well, there are people who are doing heart surgery today who lose loved ones. There's people who are battling depression, and they still have to be able to bring their best that day. And like you said, the human mind is incredibly powerful. And to be able to segregate and separate those two identities is powerful. To be able to be like, okay, I'm gonna show up today no matter what I'm going through, I'm gonna perform on my best. If you're heart surgeon, I'm gonna save lives. If you're a Pittsburgh pirate, you're gonna pitch your best that day. But then there's that human side, dealing with that grief. And I think a lot of times people are are actually better at the performer side and don't know how to handle that grief side. And so I'm gonna keep some of the details private to respect for my family because it's not totally my story to share or my story to share. But my older brother with Down syndrome is really going through a grief period right now. So he had an incredibly tight relationship with my grandparents. Within the last two years, they both passed away. My grandmother, being the one he was closer to, just passed away about a month or two ago now at this point. And seeing what grief has done with him. And if you know Down syndrome people, they are the most loving, energetic, happy people in the world. And he's had a profound impact on my life. And I like selfishly, like, you know, I feel I get to live the life that he deserves. Because you see just how kind and just how awesome he is, and people with Down syndrome, and you know, I think about me, and like, you know, sometimes I'm like, I'm such a shitty person. You know, I'm like, he deserves like everything. And just seeing what grief has really done to him to a degree, it's like it makes it really hard for me to show up day to day because my mind's on him. And I'm thinking all the time, like recently, particularly within the last few weeks, like how can I help him be okay? And part of it is we have to understand we there's nothing we can really do except be there for people sometimes, even when it's someone with Down syndrome.

SPEAKER_04: 41:26

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02: 41:27

And understanding that just be there, but grief is going to run its way through all of us.

SPEAKER_01: 41:34

Right. And it's I'm sorry that you're dealing with that.

SPEAKER_00: 41:37

I'll be praying for him. He's gonna be okay. I think, like you said, it just has to run its course through all of us, and we're all going to deal with it. But I've run too recently problems of I didn't realize how many of my friends had been struggling for me in terms of they didn't know what to do for me. And I felt like friendships getting distant, and not by choice, and not because I mean, like I have a job where I'm busy all the time and things like that too, like understood the schedules are hard, but because they didn't know what to do for me. And I had moments of needing to reassure them and the people I love in my life, be like, you did everything you could to what you knew to do. You still asked me, Hey, do you want to go to dinner? You want to do something? Do you want to hang out? Like you treated me normal. And I needed that normalcy. I didn't want you to feel bad for me or like treat me differently or treat me like a piece of broken glass. Like I needed that normalcy in my life and my friends who just moved on with life exactly how it was. And I needed to see that and have that normalcy. But the truth is, even though I've gone through this, I still wouldn't know how to help someone through it. I'm still going through it. And I still don't know how to help myself sometimes. Everybody's grief is different, and everybody's grief is very individualized. And it's just really important to remember to give people grace, give people kindness, and show up in ways the only ways you know how. And just let people know that you're there and that you love them and that you care about them, and that's it. You don't have to do more than what you feel like you can do or have to, because a lot of times people grieving, they need to grieve. Like you need to feel it. You can't push it away or push it down because it's not going to go away. It's always gonna be there. But yeah, it's a it's a heavy subject and it's something that I went through this whole season and will probably still go through. But I know there were also people that were grieving throughout the season too in their own ways and had to show up on much bigger stages and do many much bigger things than I had to do. So I'm just very thankful for the community of people who are around me to just, you know, show up every day and understand that maybe the smile on my face wasn't always genuine at times, but they knew I was doing my best and that meant a lot. And, you know, I found my path to faith like through it all because I think that's also really hard. And, you know, I pray for your brother through everything and your family through it because I was real mad at God for a long time. And we had a bad relationship where I felt like I was in a room and it was full of echoes and nobody could hear me when I prayed. And that was a really scary, scary, scary place to be. For somebody who does have a lot of faith in their life and and I do have a relationship with God. When I felt like I lost him, I was terrified. I was that was the first time in my life I was really, really scared to be alive because I didn't know what the end result was. And I eventually found my way back to faith because I kept praying, even if I felt like no one could hear me. I kept praying. And one day I had asked for a sign of God to be like, I just need to know my brother's okay. I just need to know like you have him. I just need to know. That's it. I like, I just need to know. And I was driving through Murraysville, coming home from my parents' house, and a halo appeared around the sun. And it's like a weird astronaut, whatever astronomical feat that happens. But I, a warmth came over me and I started crying and I felt so comforted in God and was like, okay, like you got me. We're here, we're back. Like, we made it back. And you did hear me this whole time. And now I know my brother's okay. And now I can like live with that peace in a way. And now I also have this found faith, newfound faith again, where like I can get back to like feeling like I can find myself again as like a better person and be there for people and show up better in my life and not care so much about the day-to-day superficial things that as human beings, we innately care about for some reason. And it's just like a really powerful way of letting people know that like your journey is really personal to you. You're going to go through things, whether it's through faith or through not, but you're gonna find your way. And your brother's gonna find his way, and everybody will. But dang, if it's not the most challenging thing ever, and it tests your faith in every way and it tests your, you know, humanity in every single way, and it puts you in some deep situations, but it's really powerful. It's a really powerful thing to go through, but it definitely changes your perspective on life. I would say my family tells me all the time, they're like, You are a totally different person now than you were two years ago. And not in a bad way, just in a very like, you grew up a lot in two years. You grew up a lot, and I did, and I know I feel different, but I also feel better. Like I feel better.

SPEAKER_02: 46:20

One thing that I love in my own life is like the art of like storytelling. Like, not even like in a public sphere, but like day to day, how am I re rewiring my experiences to tell a larger narrative or part of like my life, particularly hardships? One of the hardest things I have in my own life is like the loss of people. How do I write that? Right. Like if I'm writing my own book, like how do I write this? Because sometimes I am a believer, like sometimes things just like they suck. Like things happen, they hurt. Like you think like sometimes people lose a championship game, like you know, relatively small scale compared to like some of the stuff we're talking about. But it's like you lose, you're on a different team the next year. It's like, well, what did I really learn from that? I may never get back here to use said learnings. And so for me, like losing like my grandparents who, when my parents divorced when we were little, like we lived with them. And so, like, like losing them, it's like hard sometimes, like think like, okay, well, how do I like write this? Like, how do I use this in my grieving process? And it's just one of those things, like losing loved ones to me, I I think above all else, is probably the hardest thing that you can go through. Now, that's my personal perspective, which is I agree.

SPEAKER_00: 47:31

It's just I think it's just it's the thing in life that we all fear, whether we say we do or don't. You know, and the older you get, the more, I guess, real it all starts to feel. But I think people who have experienced grief and lost in somebody who's really, really close to you in a personal way, people who have lost loved ones young, and in my case, in a really tragic way too, um, it changes you forever. But it also gives you a set of circumstances to change yourself to and change yourself for the better and and live a better life and a more full life. And I think that's a really cool thing to learn, especially because in this day and age of social media being such a trap and what it is, and you always being envious of what someone else has or what they do, and why can't I do that? And why isn't that me? And it's also superficial because people post what they want you to see, not what really is going on most of the time. And like I said, are the all those clicks and likes and shares and stuff, is it worth it? Like, is that really that fulfilling to you? What if it all went away? Like, would you still be okay with the person you are? Are you secure with who you are? And so I think going through grief and like you said, it going through, you know, the loss of a loved one, all of that really does give you this really innate perspective on life. And you just have to remember that from now on. I think it's there a lot of times to give you life perspective and lessons, and it gives you an opportunity, though you lost somebody, but to gain something for yourself along the way. And I think that's like the only way sometimes you can get through it is knowing, yes, I lost something, but what can I gain from this? And it's that new sense of life, like that person who passed away at the end of the day would want you to just live. They want you to live and be the fullest version of yourself. And I think that's just a really special thing to look at grief in that way and find, you know, the beauty and the sadness. Because at the end of the day, you have to go on. Life goes on, and there's so many awesome things to still take advantage of and do.

SPEAKER_02: 49:34

So how did you know that you were ready to start talking about this and opening up about how it's impacted you in your life?

SPEAKER_00: 49:41

Um I don't know if I ever like had a moment where I was like, well, I'm ready, or like how I want to do it or what I want to do. And I do feel like there's so many things like I could sit down and write down and like put into a dang book of like how to go through grief while, you know, also having to do a job in front of hundreds of thousands of people who expect you to be happy. You know, how to be sad when you have to be happy, like how to be happy when all you want to be is sad. But I think finding just the right space. And I mean, I've grown up with you in a way where I felt comfortable to be in a space and and share it. I think I got to a point where I felt like it was important to talk about. I've started doing a little bit more on social media. My family has, you know, found ways to donate and give money to different causes who have helped our family through this along the way. It's Childhood Grief Awareness Day on the day like we're filming this. And I think it's really important where I have started to feel a sense of purpose in a way, but also a sense of responsibility to let people know genuinely, like you never know what somebody's going through. Somebody could look like the happiest person on the planet, but inside they could really, really be hurting. And that's grief and that's mental health. And it's all super important. And we can talk about it, we can post about it, but I felt like I was holding, hiding something that could be really helpful for somebody else. And I had met with one of my mentors at Penn State not too long ago, who was like, I it is your story to tell. And everything that you've gone through this year is all yours to share in the past two years. He goes, however, when you are ready to share and when you decide to share, and there's probably still so much more I could talk about and would want to talk about, you know, in my own way one day. He said, I think you could help a lot of people along the way. And just knowing that maybe one thing I say could help somebody who is going through something similar that I went through, it meant the world to me to know that because my family got through things because of the support of other people who unfortunately went through something very similar to what we did. But they help you because they get it. And so I want people to know that, you know, there are people like myself who can be a resource to help going through grief and not knowing how to go through it or deal with it when you have other things you have to be dealing with too. So I think it's important for me to share because it feels like a responsibility to let people know that, like, hey, you might see me on TV and everything might look awesome. And truthfully, it is. I'm so blessed and I'm having the best time of my life. The reason I'm able to get through hard things is because I get to do other things that I love as well. But it doesn't mean I'm okay every day. And it's also a great reminder that it doesn't mean the players in the field are okay every day. And so it's just another reminder of letting the world know we're all human and we go through things and it's important. I just think it's it's I'm at a time where I can talk about it without breaking down in tears all the time, too. Cause I think that was hard at first was anytime someone would talk about it, you would just want to cry. Like I didn't know what to say. I didn't have time to process emotions. I didn't know what to feel. But it feels like a responsibility. And if I could help one person hear something that changes the course of how they're dealing with their grief, then I feel like I've done it, I've helped because there's been little things along the way that somebody's told me that have helped. So I hope I can be that one person to a one person in this world.

SPEAKER_02: 53:03

That's such a like almost a leap of faith to be able to transition. And like you said, you're always griefing, but getting into the griefing process to where it's like, I can now talk about this to help other people. And that is such a rewarding in a way, hurdle that you can overcome to be like, okay, I can talk about this. It does deeply affect me still to this day, but I know I can use this to impact other people and keeping that at the forefront of everything that we discuss. And I mean, you articulated it earlier too. Like, I do think that there's a really strong presence about having like a female in vulnerability and getting people to open up in a different way. I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_00: 53:46

Like you're gonna go and like I know Marissa's your wife now, so obviously you're gonna open up to her, but like I'm sure even before when you guys had just started dating or you met her, there were things that you instantly could just tell her or talk about that you could never talk to your like best guy friend about.

SPEAKER_04: 54:00

Oh, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00: 54:00

And just honestly, because you thought because she was a woman, she was going to understand it a little bit deeper and better and console you in a way. And I'm sure you have other, if like you've had other female relationships through professions and friendships and things like that that you innately felt the same way about. There's just people who have that sort of thing, but it's like a power for sure. It is, it is a power. But yeah, I don't want to come on here and be like super depressing the whole time, but I do think like it was a good time for me to like talk about the grieving process a little bit and go through everything because there's just so much that goes on during a season people don't know about and don't see, and a lot in this career that throws you some curveballs for lack of better terms.

SPEAKER_02: 54:41

But yeah, one thing I've gotten a lot better at too, like grieving about different things and different domains of life is learning to communicate what I need. Like, you know, saying to Marissa, hey, this is what I'm going through, this is what I need. I don't need you to pump me up. I need you to listen.

unknown: 54:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 54:56

Or go into even like some of my homies and being like, like, you need to pump me up right now. Like I'm going through this, you need to pump me up. Right. And knowing which people can serve different roles in my life. And you know, how you get to that point, um, I think is different for everybody. Um, obviously, experience going through different periods of grief, different challenges, but you know, learning to cultivate that that self-awareness of like what do I really need? And like listening, let yourself feel and let that tell you, hey, what do I need? Do I need to just sit and watch Netflix for four hours? Do I need to sit with my wife? Do I need to have an intellectual conversation, right? And understanding who do I need, what do I need, and where do I need it from?

SPEAKER_00: 55:40

No, it is so funny you say that because so when it was actually before my brother passed, we had been going through a lot of like hardships for years. This was going on. And my cousins had told me they're like, you really need to go to therapy and get ahead of some things here. Like, I feel like you're letting, you're taking a lot on your shoulders, you're letting a lot pile up, et cetera, et cetera. And so I tried the whole therapy thing for a little bit. And I'd say the whole therapy thing because it wasn't for me at that time. I wasn't ready for it. I think therapy is awesome. Um, and I think people should do it if that's what helps you. I haven't been ready for it yet because I wasn't ready to talk about everything because I would show up to like an appointment online and it just felt like something I had to do that day, not that I needed or wanted to do. I was like, oh, another thing on my list and I have all these things to do. And then it would just stress me out. But I had an amazing therapist who, before I stopped, did tell me when I asked her for like advice. And she said, you know, you have to set boundaries of what you need that day. And she said exactly sort of what you said. And it was like, if you just need to sit down and watch TV, sit down and watch TV and tell people this is what I'm doing. I'm going to do it. But she also told me something really powerful where she said, No is a complete sentence because I was really stressed out about I was really tired. I was kind of depressed at times, I was going through a lot. And then I'd have someone text me and be like, Hey, do you want to do this? Let's go here, let's do that. And I'd be like, no. And I'd like come up with sort of like an excuse or, you know, no, because or no, but. And she's like, just say no. You're allowed to just say, hey, no, but thank you. Like, no, no, thanks. And I was like, wow, that's really powerful. And that's like in so many things in life now, too. I feel like, where it's okay to just be like, no, no, I'm good. And like it's so funny because it catches people off guard and it's not meant to be rude. But I was with people the other day and in a dog park, and you know, everybody was getting together in our like building and they're like, oh, like you should come do this. And I go, Oh no, that's fine. Thank you. And they were like, What? And I was like, no, like I don't want to. I think that sounds fun. It sounds great. But what I plan to do tonight was sit on my couch with my dog, watch a movie, and not worry about anybody else. But thank you so much. But no. And it's so funny to hear like the innate human reaction when you just tell somebody no, and they're like, What? And it's like, no. And it's like been the most powerful thing in my life is no is a complete sentence. I don't have to do something if I don't want to, and I don't owe you an explanation for it. And it's not to be rude and it's not to be mean, it's not to be hurtful, it's not to be spiteful. It's just because all I need to tell you is no, and that's all it should take. Because we are like, I am a people pleaser and I know that. So for me and my personality, just saying no should be fine. And it's really hard for me to do that because I want to make everybody happy and be a people pleaser and make everything work. And okay, I'll do this and this and this. But then where am I putting myself first? So saying no and saying it as a complete sentence has been me putting myself first, um, which is a really cool thing. You should try it. So but prepare for people's reactions, be like, and and be like, no.

SPEAKER_02: 58:48

Do you follow Alex Ramosi at all? Or do you know who he is? So just what another wildly successful entrepreneur, but he was on a podcast talking about like the power of just saying no. And he was like, There's this, he was in a situation, he was with his wife somewhere they were traveling, and they ran into like a prominent podcaster and someone that he knew, and they were like, Oh, you're in town, like you know, we should like you should come on for an hour, like hop on a podcast. He's like, No, like I'm good. And the guy was like, No, like really, like just 45 minutes, like come on. And so he pulls out his phone and he's like, see my calendar. And he was he was like, It's blank. He was like, I would really like to keep it that way. And then just like walked away. And like his buddy that he was also with was like, You just like totally owned him. And like Hermosio was like was taken back. He's like, What do you mean? Like, I owned him. Owned him, yeah. He's like, I was just saying, like, I didn't want to do anything. He's like to me, that was like a normal response to just be like, no, like I want to protect my time.

SPEAKER_00: 59:46

Yeah. And I think there's like a balance too, right? Because you also have to respect that, like, you're also a person who's asking people for their time all the time. Like, I'm somebody who I know I'm asking people for their time all the time. For example, athletes every day asking for interviews. I am Well aware I'm asking for time out of their day. I am well aware of that. But the flip side of that is I hope they know this. And I know they do, but you would hope they know. My time in my day revolves completely around their time in their day. So it's like, no, actually, I didn't get to eat dinner today because I had to wait for X, Y, and Z and all of these things, and people don't see that side of it. And then people would feel bad if they knew that, but like, that's part of my job. You got to make it work no matter what. And it's just so funny, though, to see that side of it. You have to know the balance. You're gonna have to ask people for their time. They're gonna have to ask you for yours. But it is okay to take time for yourself and be like, yeah, I don't have anything on my calendar and I'm really good with it. And I don't know if you've ever felt this way. And maybe this is getting like a little deep. But I also had a conversation with somebody the other day that I thought was like really powerful to hear someone else articulate it. Where sometimes I have to feel like I have to apologize for the only thing I want to do is sit on my couch and be lazy and watch TV because then you like as a really productive person, you feel really bad about it and you start to feel like people are like, you're lazy, you're this, they're judging you. It's not the case, but you feel like that. And I feel like that. So if I'm having, and I get that from my mom, and I know I do, because she can't sit down to save her life and watch anything. She's such a like, I gotta clean, I gotta do this. I'm not, and we're like, mom, relax. But I'm like, okay, I'm throwing stones because I'm bad at doing that. But it was really cool to hear somebody say to me, I think it's really cool that you are essentially like secure enough in yourself and being alone and to be able to do that and that be fine. Cause it takes, I didn't realize, I guess, how much like self-secureness that does take to sit and be alone and be totally cool being alone. Cause a lot of people can't just be alone and be by themselves and be really fine with it. And it's like a really weird thing as an adult to realize like, I am completely cool with who I am and what I do. And I'm so secure with myself that I can sit here alone on a couch with my dog, watching a movie, and be really happy and feel like my day is like so complete. But I didn't realize how wild that was to people. I didn't realize that was like a thing where some people really can't do that. Like it scares them to sit and be alone.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:19

Did you see Joe Flacco's quote recently?

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:21

No.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:22

Really funny. Well, he he said it in a more comedic way. So he talked about, he was like, when I was like younger, he was like, I would see people sitting alone at restaurants and feel really bad. He's like nowadays, he's like, those people, he's like, I realize they're in heaven, right? Like being able being able to sit by yourself, you know, well, let's go to the movies, go to dinner, sit at home, like whatever it is, be able to be by yourself. And I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, but like there's a lot of times where I'm in my crazy household right now, where I'm like, I would love to just be sitting by myself watching football uninterrupted.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:57

And how funny is it though, then too? You have such a respect, then I'm sure for your wife when like moms, for you know, whatever the reason might be, naturally kids more just like gravitate toward like mama, mama, mama, mama, mom all day long. And I have such a profound respect for my parents too, now that I'm older and realize how much being alone is so nice.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:20

Where I'm like, dang, I feel so bad because we were probably so annoying. And now I understand why my mom sometimes just wanted to go to the grocery store by herself and why my mom just wanted to go like take, you know, a walk by herself and or just sit down and read a book. I get it. I get it, and I thank my parents because I understand it now. But also, my mom, 10 out of 10 times, would have probably would rather have been with us anyway. Like, I'm not saying that, but it is so funny. Yes. Because I have done that where I'm on the road and like in a really chaotic baseball environment all the time, and you're working every day. We're sometimes just finding a cafe to sit down, have a cup of coffee in the morning, be by yourself, and like eat by yourself. And I'll have like an audio book in my ears. And I'm like, maybe there's people looking around being like, oh, she looks so lonely. And I'm like, I've never been more at peace. I promise. Like, I have, I am living my best life. And please don't ask me to join your table. And please, like, I'm good. I'm really good.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:19

That the bet the coffee shop, headphones in is the best. Yeah. That's my favorite, like, one-on-one time is like sitting there or working out is like another time where I get to be by myself. But like when I'm not fully exerting myself, like sitting down in a coffee shop, headphones on, maybe laptop open, maybe closed, but just having a cup of coffee or like a breakfast sandwich.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:38

Yeah. It's like the best feeling, just like a couple minutes to yourself of like peace and quiet. You're like, mm-hmm, chef's kiss.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:45

But it's also funny because we were talking like just a lot on the topics of like, I don't know, just the older you get, mental health side of things, what you're feeling. Something that, like, and to the point of being really secure with yourself, right? And being secure with who I am. Like it took a really long time to get to this point where I feel so good about myself career-wise, my journey with my faith, like everything I'm doing in that aspect to feel I'm starting to feel more comfortable with the person I am in this world. But a lot of this, like it's so funny how this career field can be really dangerous in a way of not making you feel like you're enough. And I say that because there are so many people, the natural reaction of people, and this is just because people, you know, they want the best for you. And I know that. And it's a compliment. And I know that. People will always ask me, Well, what's next?

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:43

What's next?

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:44

Well, when are you gonna be on ESPN? Well, when are you gonna be doing NFL games? And I'm you know, it bothered me a lot because in college I was really a toxic mindset of what's next, what's next, what's next. Instead of just focusing and appreciating like where you were. Now, yes, there's a part of this industry where sometimes you do have to think what's next, what's next, what's next, because you're working to get somewhere. But if you would have told me five years ago I'd be working for my hometown team, I'd be on TV 150 days a year, doing what I love, covering a professional sport, I'd be like, heck yeah. And financially being able to support my life and like feel really good about it and be able to see my family and be close to home. I would be like, heck yeah, that's a dream. That's the dream. Sounds like I'm living my dream and I am. But you, it's such a trap when people always ask what's next. And I'm like, hey, like I really appreciate that. But what's so bad about being really content where my feet are? I still believe I can be a better broadcaster, a better reporter. For the pirates, I believe there's so much more content I can bring. There's so much more I could do. I could be a better human being. Maybe that's what the question is is I'm good at my job and my career, but how can I be a better human being now? Maybe that's my next test. Maybe it's not when am I gonna get or if if I'm gonna get to this network or do this or that. Maybe it's, hey, this is where I'm meant to be. And now my journey is about how can I be a better Christian? How can I be a better human? And I think that's what we don't ask enough of is like not what's next in your career, like what's next for you, you as a human being and your impact in this world. Like, why I'm not defined by what I do is my career. So why isn't it good enough that I'm one of 30 people essentially who get to do what I do every day? That's such a blessing. It's such a privilege. And sometimes when I tell people that, they're like, yeah, but like you're working for the pirates and don't they lose a lot and don't they do this? And I'm like, haven't you ever wanted to be a part of something that, like, when it's starting, not when it's at its peak? I think it's awesome to be a part of something that could be really special. And I show up to work every day and I have so much fun and I love the people I work with, and all of the players on our team are so great to me and they show me so much respect and I don't take that for granted. And so it's like, why would I want to wish that away? Because what if I would go and work somewhere where I'm not respected when I show up to work every day and I'm my job is mitigated and maybe they don't like me, or maybe I'm not as good at that. Like, or maybe I have to move the entire way across the country and don't get to see my family. And I can't imagine not having been close to my family during this entire year of sadness and grief and heartache. Like, I think that's the craziest thing to me. It's a natural human reaction and it's a wonderful one because people are, like I said, hopeful for you and supportive of you. But I think it's also so it's not the right question to ask sometimes to people, you know? Because I'm so it's okay to be where your feet are. It is so okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:57

It's it's really funny because you probably don't remember. I remember like probably three, four years ago now. Time frames are a little blurry once you have kids. But I remember asking I'm not that old. I feel much older than I am. Um but I remember asking, like, what is like your dream? Like, what do you this was back when before, like, before you're like getting paid, right? This is probably when you're working eight jobs. It was five years ago. And you were like, like, honestly, like, I would love to work for one of the local sports teams, like the Steelers or the Pirates. And I remember Fort texted me with before like you had announced it that you were getting that job. And I just remember being like, that is so awesome. One, I know how ridiculously hard your job is and how hard it is to get there. And to be able to like achieve and just watch, right? Like, respect the hustle, respect the grind, see you going everywhere, doing everything, and like me being like, How the heck is she doing all this? And like, that's awesome. And then to see it, I was like, that's really, really cool. And then there's like, and this is like my some of my favorite conversation that you just brought up, that dichotomy of like, what's next? How am I pushing? How am I challenging? How do I stay present? And how do I like balance the mindset of performance, being self-driven, not being able to sit down, but in that same time having grace, as you talked about earlier in the the conversation, having that grace with myself. And I think that's one of the h hardest things as a high performer is to one acknowledge how awesome it is what you're doing. One of 30, you know, and if you want to spend all sports, okay, one of 90 people in the world. That's like infinitesimally small, what you've been able to accomplish. And being able to appreciate that, and hey, maybe that is your dream. Like maybe that's where I want to be. And I really struggle with that as like an athlete and as a person now is it's not that I'm always looking for what's next. It's always I want to do more. And understanding more isn't always better, and maybe just getting better at some of what you're doing. And like as an athlete, I was horrible at that. Like, one of a question I always ask athletes is like, you know, are you satisfied with your career? I've yet to actually have an athlete come on here and say, Yep, super proud of my career. And I fall into that category. Like to me, like my athletic career, even though like I'm in the 1% or less, was a dramatic failure, like in my own eyes, and understanding I have to reframe like that mindset of expectations and what actually occurred and having you know pride and joy in some of the things that I did. And it's that constant, like it's that constant battle that I talk about, like between like irrational confidence, like wanting more, the hedonic treadmill, and then that imposter syndrome, that you know, being you know, confident in what I've done and understanding that I should really like you know, complacent, like I should be proud of like some of the things that I've already done up to this point.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:02

A hundred percent. But it's always harder for us to be proud of ourselves, right? Because of that. But it's okay to slow down sometimes. It's okay to realize where you like you're enough. Because truthfully, like, yes, you're always gonna want more and you're always gonna wanna work toward more. But what you've done and what you're doing is enough. Like at the end of the day, God's not gonna look at you on judgment day and be like, well, never did suit up for the Steelers, did you? Like not letting you through the gates. You know, he's gonna look at you and be like, man, like you've been a great husband, great father, great brother, great son, and you've done all these awesome things and impacted so many people and gave people a space like myself to come on and like share their story and you know, do a little therapy for themselves. And like, that's really special. And I think that's the part of it where it's like everybody is so easy to define people by what they do, not who they are. But I'm also not, I guess, you know, I'm not dumb to the fact of I posted a reel the other day, like an updated reel, because in this industry, you know, you have to show a body of work of what you can do. And so many people messaged me being like, Are you leaving? Are you going somewhere? Like most people only post a reel if they're trying to get a job. And I was like, no, I needed to update it. Like baseball gives you so much content. I have 140 games I cover, give or take. I wanted to put all of that somewhere and make sure I have it because I'm also not dumb to the fact that this could all be taken away from me really quickly. And that's just the reality of the industry and how it changes. So I always want to be prepared in case I have to find something else or do something else. But at the same time, I can also in that same space exist in being really happy and proud of where I am and can challenge myself within the space that I'm in. Like some days it's less about, you know, feeling like, what's next and what can I do? It's what can I do where I am? How can I get the most out of where I am? And I tell a lot of young people that where I say, like, you squeeze all of the opportunity out of a space that you can because you you can be given opportunities and you can give 50% to this job to move on to the next thing. And 20% here, get what you need, move on to the next thing. But are you creating the best version of yourself then? When you choose to leave a space one day or walk away from something, at the end of the day, the only way you're going to be able to be satisfied with moving on is being able to look back and say, I did everything in that space. There was no more room for me to grow. And I wouldn't have been satisfied without more room to grow, right? Because I think about that a lot when it's a lot of people will ask, how did you know it was the right time to like leave here or do this? And it was truthfully a lot of the questions or a lot of the answers I can give is there was nothing else I could have done. Or I tried to do things and I was being stopped from doing it and things like that. I sucked everything out of that space I could. And you know, I'm sure in your athletic career it became that way. It's not that you didn't give everything you had, you just reached a point where, like, that was it. And that's okay. Like, that's okay. Cause most people wouldn't even get to that point. But I think it's really powerful for young people to know that because there's so much to of instant gratification and just getting what you need. And it's be in that space, be okay in that space, take everything you can from that opportunity and then move to the next thing. And so I think that's like the spot I'm at right now is not being dumb to the fact that it can all be taken away, but making sure that I'm making absolute most of this opportunity with every day I'm given and be a better version of myself so that if it goes away ever, I am prepared for the next thing that would come.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:40

Kay Adams just literally said something almost identical. Do you watch Bustin' with the boys at all? Yes. You do?

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:47

I do. I haven't watched one of their podcasts in a while, but they did have Kay Adams on the other day, and I was like, oh, I'd like to hear what she had to say because she doesn't speak. I mean, she has her podcast, she speaks a lot, but her journey's cool and everything. So I haven't, that's actually one of the episodes. Maybe that's what I'll do tonight when I leave here. I'm gonna go home, sit with my dog, and watch the Bustin with the Boys. I do love Bustin with the Boys, so I think they're actually hilarious. I met them in Oregon too, covering a game. It was the Oregon Ohio State game when Oregon ended up winning.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:11

That's a good one to cover.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:12

And I was sitting in the press box with them and I was like, this is crazy. These guys are awesome. And I'm like talking to them right now. They were the coolest people I ever met. But anyway, they're much maybe not ever met, but they were pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:20

Slight uh divergent from the trail here. They do a really good job of being really funny while also really knowledgeable. They're really good at that. Love those guys. They're my favorite listen right now. But I didn't get through the full interview yet with Kay Adams, but she was talking about that exact thing. They were like, Well, how did you know? Because you really took like a leap of faith, leaving good morning football. And she was like, She was like, I loved the show. It was awesome. She was like, it was some of my favorite memories of my life. She was like, but I just felt that I had done absolutely everything in that arena that I could and I needed to transition out. And so I think that is just a very fulfilling way to feel and articulate when it's time to make a change.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:04

Right. No, I'm really glad she said that because that makes me feel a little bit more validated and less crazy in my thought process because I've come up with a lot of not come up with it, I've come to realize a lot of it on my own through a lot of this, where what makes me feel satisfied, what makes me feel whole. And that might be so I'm not saying these things as like general statements for everybody because everybody has different ways that they feel complete. But I will say probably the general population of overachievers and people in our industry specific, I'm industry specific, probably in a lot of the things that I say, because that's my only experience. I can't really speak for doctors and lawyers and everybody else. But I think there is a lot of that when you look at yourself and you're like, okay, what if I can't do anything else here and I'm not growing or I'm not being better, like taking everything I can, like I'd be okay if I had to walk away. And I think then then that's when you're actually passionate about the next thing you do. Cause I think that's a trap too, sometimes for people, is they walk away from something, but then they're not happy with the next thing they're doing, even if it seemed bigger and better, but it's because they maybe like didn't really appreciate everything that they did and didn't take everything they could from the previous opportunity they had a lot of the time. I think that can be a thing too. So I think it is you have to make sure you're completely ready to move on. But if someone doesn't want to either, that should be okay. Like, my goodness, like, oh, you're a brain surgeon. Well, when do you want to do heart surgery next? Well, when do you want to be an orthopedic surgeon next? Like, it's okay. You're you're allowed to just be that. That's an extreme example, but it's a human example, or you know, or like on a day-to-day basis, like I'm trying to relate it to just normal jobs. No, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:47

You said it earlier, like with the no thing, like there should be no explanation. Like, maybe people are just happy doing some of the things they're doing. Maybe that it that fills their cup up more than anything else any other job ever could. And you think about the any transition, I don't care if it's job to job, I don't care if it's from career to different career, I don't care if it's moving up the ladder in your own, you know, workspace, there's always trade-offs. And to me, one of the best parts of like identity work, right? That that's like what I call it, is when you come to a realization that you can eliminate desires and you can be like, I only have these few desires that I can execute at a hundred percent level. And not wanting, like I joke now, like I love like tennis all of a sudden. And I think sometimes I could be a really good tennis player.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:38

But then I think about it and I'm like, do I want to train four hours a day playing tennis? I'm like, no, I don't. So I can watch from afar, and that's like a silly example, but it's like the ability to eliminate desires to be able to fulfill the desires I actually care about.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:55

Do you know what's really funny that you say that? Do you ever feel like this is like someone who was like an athlete myself, and like I gave up sports to go to Penn State, and I could have tried to walk onto the soccer team, things like that. I didn't, but I probably wouldn't be where I am today had I have not given that up at a point in my life. Like you said, the trade-offs. Like, sorry, you're not gonna be an athlete anymore, but you have a great background in it, and now you're gonna talk about sports instead. But it's so funny because anytime I'm working out, like I am so competitive. I can't just do things like a little bit. And like in your head, does it ever go through your head like when you're running? You're like, okay, if I trained hard enough, then I bet I could do that. It's like, what? Am I crazy? Like, no, you couldn't because there's a billion people who are way better at it than you naturally to begin with, and they have the time to do it, and they actually want to do it. It's like it's not your path. It's okay. You can just run for fun. It's okay. But like it's so funny. Um, it's so funny. Like the athlete, I feel like the athlete in you never goes away, where you'll be like doing something, you're like, oh, I bet I could be really good at this. And it's like, are you freaking nuts? Like, I would box all the time. At one point, I loved boxing, and I'd be like, Oh, I bet I could be like really good at this. Like, what? No, I don't want to go get my face beat in. Like what? But at the one point, I was like, man, I bet this is gonna be cool to train for. I was like, I would die. I would die.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:09

It's really funny because every time I have like one of these things, I'll go home and say to Marissa, like, for example, probably like two weeks ago, I said I had pickleball on the TV. And I said to Marissa, should I go train to be a professional pickleball player? And she was just like, no.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:25

No.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:26

Like, and uh then last night I went with my my parents and my my brother with Down Center. We played pickleball at a really nice place uh here in Murraysville, pickleball harbor. If you didn't ever play pickleball, it's a good spot. But seeing the other people in there and seeing how good they were, I'm like, I don't want to train this hard.

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:45

Yeah, there's like seven-year-old ladies who would probably kick in your butt and you're like, okay, got it. Humbling. And that's I'm humbled.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:53

That's exactly right. Like, I'm seeing people who are like, again, it's like like that are not as athletic as me. And I'm like, and they're like doing crazy stuff. I'm like, all right, I don't need to be that good. It's like I'm good to just play recreationally whenever, and you know, being a former athlete, I'm paying for it today. My back. Tell me about it. Oh, my back is killing me right now. So I get that. The the former, the former athlete pains.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:19

All the hits you took. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:21

But that's uh, that's that's part of the the fun of of being competitive is that confidence and then that humility that kicks away.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:28

Right in. Right when you need it. You're like, yep, you're right. I'm just gonna stick to what I'm good at. This is why it wasn't on my path to begin with. You're right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:34

What is your favorite part of the job that you get to do?

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:37

Man, being trusted to share things that are really important to people. The people, the relationships, and the stories. I take a lot of pride in being trusted with information, right? That's part of the job. And being able to tell stories that impact people's lives is a really special thing to be able to do. You have a bunch of really high-achieving people who just are going out and playing a kids' game at the end of the day, but it's their career, it's their livelihood, it's what they worked their whole lives for. And along the way, they have really special things to tell and share with the world and they get really cool experiences. And I am trusted a lot of time with some of their more vulnerable moments of life or their really fun sides of life or really special moments they get to be a part of with people. And I get trusted to tell those stories. And to me, that's the cool, that's the why you do the job, right? You do it to help share with the world the human side of sports. And at the same time, you know, just be able to help people be themselves to the rest of the world. When so often I think those people, and you were probably one of these people at one point in your life, being an athlete and having a lot of eyes on you, where you just want to be anything but that sometimes. You have, or at the same time, all you want to be is that, but you have to also be the person who is a celebrity on the other side of it. And people don't ask for that side of it, that just comes with it. Whether you people that's like a misconception. People say, you know, well, you asked for it. Did I? I didn't ask for all of that that comes with it, but it does come with it and you're aware of it. Doesn't mean you asked for it. Um, but it's really special to be able to help these people be human to the world and and trust, be trusted with their stories and and be able to help connect people is really special. Yeah, at the end of the day, the like the best part of my job is the people you meet along the way and the stories you get to tell and the connections you build, the relationships. And I think that's like what a lot of life is. It's the people you meet along the way. And I'm very fortunate. I work in an environment where, you know, I get to, I get to tell really cool stories from really awesome people. And I get to help these guys break down those walls and share those stories and be a little more human because that world, I think you put up a wall more times than not. And to help them break down that wall at times is really special. And so get to show personality a little bit and help them do that in a vulnerable space. Like that's a really cool part of my job when you get somebody to laugh at an interview who doesn't usually laugh or, you know, show a little bit of their personality when they don't really do that a lot. Um, that makes you feel really good. Help someone be themselves in a world that forces you sometimes to put yourself in a box.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:19

So And you've definitely earned every bit of it. Thank you along the way. So it's been fun.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:24

It's been a journey. It's been a ride.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:27

Yes, it's been awesome to watch too.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:29

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:29

Fan from afar, and it's uh I don't get to make it to many pirate games right now with the kids, but I think I'm gonna make it to a couple this year. Mari's old enough where I can start taking her and she won't be running up and down the aisles a thousand times. So yeah, it'll uh it'll be really cool to to get to see you live and in person. Um, but I appreciate you coming on today. Um, it's been a fun conversation. Got to cover a lot of ground.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:53

Um, if people want to reach out to you, if you have anything to promote, you know, please, where can people get at you? And yeah, you know, what what do you got going on?

SPEAKER_00: 1:26:00

Yeah, you can follow me on my social medias. I'm on there. Oh, it's a lot of sports if you're interested. There's not much more you're gonna get from it on there, but reach out. Uh, it's at Mears Hannah on my social channels. That's where you can usually find me. But if anyone has it in their heart in Thanksgiving and around the holidays, I think one thing that I think is really cool that my friends and I decided to do instead of getting gifts for each other is getting a name off of an angel tree and going and spending a day together, like spending time together and then going getting presents and for a kid on an angel tree. So instead of just getting everybody gifts this year, if you have that in your heart, but also if you want to donate to a good cause this year, live for tomorrow today is a an organization, a little small organization that my family and I have really come to love. And they help so many people in need in the community who have sudden loss and they'll help cover things like funeral expenses and also just so they provide a really good community for people. So if anyone ever wants to donate to a good cause around the holidays, live for tomorrow today is our cause of choice. They're really awesome. So, and they've helped so much and more than they know. And I think that's something that I'm really thankful for this year is just having communities of people to help you through really hard times and being appreciative of that. So that would be my biggest thing this season is if you're feeling giving and just give back to those around you and just appreciate life a little bit more every day because I know I have a lot of perspective on that this past year. So appreciate life and appreciate where you are, who you are, and who you're spending your time with.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:32

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:33

But thanks for having me. It's so fun. So good to see you in this stage of life.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:37

Yes, it was a blast. Listeners, thank you for tuning in. Tune in next week, download the pod, subscribe to our YouTube channel. Five stars only, baby. Thanks again.