The Playbook with Colin Jonov
Formerly The Athletic Fortitude Show.... Colin Jonov’s Athletic Fortitude Show has rebranded to The Playbook with Colin Jonov, evolving from a sports-centric podcast to a universal guide for mastering life’s challenges. While retaining its foundation in mindset and performance excellence, the show now expands its scope to empower everyone—athletes, entrepreneurs, professionals, and beyond—to live life to its fullest potential
The Playbook with Colin Jonov
Coach Evan Burk: Delusional Confidence, 450 Letters, and a Job With the Miami Dolphins
We unpack how Coach Evan Burk without pedigree built his own path into the NFL by handwriting 450 letters, reverse-engineering relationships, and turning tiny moments at the Senior Bowl into real opportunities. The conversation blends tactics and mindset: self-awareness, delusional belief, deadlines, and the power of a curated inner circle.
• building a decision-maker map across NFL history
• crafting handwritten letters that signal rare effort
• leveraging the Senior Bowl for targeted face time
• balancing self-awareness with irrational confidence
• setting a six-month NFL-or-bust deadline
• timing outreach for maximum attention
• curating mentors and roles in your inner circle
• avoiding the hedonic treadmill and valuing the journey
• evaluating career moves beyond the grass-is-greener myth
• where to find Evan’s leadership content and book
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You you wrote 450 handwritten letters to get your job with the Miami Dolphins. That's insane. Which letter was it that got you the job? Was it the 450th or was it the 300th? Which one got you the job with the Miami Dolphins?
SPEAKER_01:Man, I wish I knew beforehand, so um I didn't have to do all that handwriting. But uh yeah, man, um I had been a coach at SMU for four years. I had started there as a volunteer assistant, just uh passing out Chick-fil-A's and doing bed checks on the road. And uh had progressed um to work in the video department to an on-field GA. Uh and my time was up at SMU after four years, and as I was starting to kind of plot out what was next, uh I kind of set my sights on the NFL. But at the same time, uh I was also self-aware that I didn't have a dad that was an NFL coach or executive, and I didn't play uh high-level college ball or or in the NFL, so I knew I had to uh set myself apart in some way. Uh and obviously these jobs in the NFL aren't posted on any website or anything. So uh this is back in 2009, and I had this idea that like um I have always been really passionate about handwritten letters, and I didn't know what employees in the NFL were gonna be uh as passionate as I was, or or maybe resonate with handwritten letters like I do. Um, but I figured like I would just uh give it a shot and that would be kind of like my end. So I had created a spreadsheet of every um scheme in the NFL, and I had gone from 1970 to 2009, and I had gone through and basically researched every employee in the NFL, every personnel person, GM, coach, and I had manually filled in where they had coached from 1970 to 2009. This is before the before the age of AI uh when I could have automated all this stuff. But uh, I made this spreadsheet. Uh so then I had the spreadsheet of basically every employee or or decision maker in the NFL, and I kind of cross-referenced that with maybe the 15 or 18 college coaches that I knew at the time, just from my four years coaching at SMU. And anywhere on that sheet where somebody that I knew overlapped with somebody in the NFL, um, even if it was like the Denver Gold in the USFL in 1985, I wrote them a letter. Hey, Coach Smith, hope you're doing well. I work here with Coach Jones. He says great things about you, blah, blah, blah. I'm trying to get my job in the NFL. Are you going to be at the senior bowl? And that's kind of the template uh that I used to write all of these letters and really just trying to find a thread of somebody that was either interested in me or maybe had a connection or a strong connection to somebody that I knew. Um, and that ended up being 450 letters. Uh so sent those out kind of like I guess uh this is uh December, January, because I was prepping to go to the senior bowl, and uh which is in Mobile, Alabama, uh, at the end of January. And so I kind of like referenced this uh going to the senior bowl and wanting to meet them at the senior bowl. And that was actually like really good because I didn't know anybody in the NFL, and it was super intimidating. Number one, just to show up to the senior bowl, uh, and number two, to approach anybody in the NFL that I didn't know and had no reference, and basically asked for a job or asked for advice to get in to get into the NFL. Um, but those letters gave me a lot of confidence in approaching those people at the senior bowl. So I sent out my letters. Uh I created a top 10 list of people that I wanted to connect with at the senior bowl. Uh, and I ended up connecting with eight of those ten. So it was really powerful because I was like super focused. Once I got to mobile, I want to meet these people. And um, one of those people on that list ended up being a scout for the Miami Dolphins. Uh, one of my letters ended up on the video coordinator's desk for the Miami Dolphins. Uh, he called me. I had a job interview. This is probably around like March or April. So even though I was connecting with people and reaching out, I wasn't really hearing much because of the draft and the prep for that. And um basically had a phone interview with the Dolphins and uh ended up reaching out to this uh uh scout at the Dolphins um that I had connected with at the Senior Bowl, and 24 hours later I got the call uh to join Miami. So um obviously a little unorthodox in the way I was thinking about it and the way I approached it, um, but got the results I wanted. So um obviously very proud of that.
SPEAKER_00:What were some of the most important lessons that you think you took out of that process of learning to write 450 letters to forcing yourself to step out of your comfort zone, go to Mobile, Alabama, talk with people you've never met before with no you know NFL experience or playing experience at a at the highest level behind you? Like what were some of the key lessons you were like, I can point to this, and this set me up for my career in my life.
SPEAKER_01:I think as I've had the chance to reflect on it, I think there were really two forces at work and and they really balanced each other out. It was the self-awareness of who I was and how I was perceived, in combination with a delusional self-belief that I belonged. And I think that when you have a powerful North Star or a powerful vision that you're pursuing, um obviously that can kind of get you through a lot of tough times, maybe uh allow you to get into uncomfortable situations and not overthink being in those uncomfortable situations. Uh so I really think that it was a balance of the two because I definitely didn't think that anybody owed me anything. Uh, but I also was very confident in my own experience, even though uh it was admittedly minimal at at that point in time compared to you know being in the NFL. Um but I also believe in soft skills and character and um kind of the unseen forces that I think really matter. And again, the reason why I was writing handwritten letters is because a typed letter, anybody can send a typed letter. And the time it takes to sit down and write a letter and be thoughtful about it and say, hey, I know you coached with you know, Coach Smith at at the Denver Gold or whatever it was, um not everybody's gonna resonate with that. A lot of people probably don't care. As a matter of fact, of those 450 letters, I got 12 responses. Um, and so from those 12 responses ended up leading to three interviews. And so it's like you just need 12, you just need one person to fall in love with you, right? Uh you just need to like resonate with somebody or 12 people out of 450. Um, and and I'm starting to ramble a little bit, but I I just think that uh to get back to your original question, I think kind of like the balance of knowing who I was and how I would be perceived um in kind of like that NFL environment, along with uh maybe this um, you know, as I said, delusional self-confidence.
SPEAKER_00:It's I make the comparison, it's that extreme tension between that irrational confidence, but also that imposter syndrome. They're both necessary for high performers to know where you currently are and have that awareness around the scene around you, but also have that irrational belief that you're going to be able to figure it out or that you have the underlying skill sets necessary to do something. And it is such a thread of a needle to find yourself in that space. And you think about like the archetypes of like mentality when you're going through this process. Were you thinking like, what is my outcome? What is my goal? How am I gonna get here? Am I willing to write a thousand letters? Or like what was your like breaking point, or was it I'm just gonna keep going and going and going?
SPEAKER_01:Great question because I think this is important. Uh so I was told mid-December, right before SMU, SMU had just made its first bowl game in 30 years. I still had, I think, like eight hours left in my master's degree. And the NCAA had a rule at the time that if you were like more than two-thirds done with your degree, you could stay an extra year. So I thought I was gonna return to SMU. And I basically went into June Jones' office and told him that and said, Hey, you know, I know we're about to go to the Hawaii bowl uh for this first bowl game in 30 years for this program, and I just want you to know I'm coming back next year to finish my degree. And uh he told me that he had already hired my replacement and that they were gonna be here when we returned from Hawaii. So um it made it very evident that I needed to do something uh because I wasn't coming back to SMU, which at the time I grew up five minutes from SMU. Um my mom went to SMU. Obviously, I had been there through basically my entire um post-uh-college career, and um it was it was obviously a challenge at first, but it's like I remember I was really down for like 24 hours, right? Like I wanted to graduate, I wanna, I wanted to stay where I was comfortable, honestly. I was living at grandma and grandpa's pool house. I mean, life did not get better for Evan Burke, circa 2007. And so I wanted to continue that. And obviously, when that when I knew that wasn't gonna continue, I was a little disappointed. But I remember like 24 hours later, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna try and go to the NFL. Like, I don't know how I'm gonna do it. And I remember because uh I was I was at grandma and grandpa's house, I drove over to my parents' house at like nine o'clock at night or something. Uh, and I can remember it was like telling them uh, you know, they're like a phone call would have sufficed, but I was like so certain at that time that I was like, this is the plan. I'm gonna do all these handwritten letters, I'm gonna figure out who knows who, and I'm gonna go to the senior bowl. And I, you know, I think I remember I had coaches telling me at the time that you need to go get a lower level job. And I say lower level, like a you know, a smaller division job. And I can remember being told that and being like, that's not me. Like, I don't want to do that right now. I can go get a job at Idaho in May. Now that's a little, that's a little uh cocky, I think. Um I don't know if I actually could have done that, but that was my mindset at 26 years old after having been at SMU for four years. And I remember I was thinking, like, okay, I'm gonna give this a go until May, right? So if you really look at it, I guess I had kind of the mentality that it was a tiny experiment. I'm gonna try and go to the NFL and I'm gonna write these letters and I'm gonna reverse engineer who knows who, and I'm gonna do it um authentically to myself, which is handwritten letters, and it's gonna be personal, and I'm gonna do everything I can to go to them and put myself in front of them. And um if it doesn't work out by May 30th, then we'll figure out what the next chapter is at that point in time. But until then, it is NFL or bust. And I think that was really powerful is like having that deadline, so to speak, of like, I'm gonna give this a go. I'm gonna give this everything I have for this six-month period. And if I get to the end of this six months and I don't have what I want, then so be it. I know I gave it a good go. That was authentic to me. Um, that was kind of like my best shot, if you will. So I think I remember kind of like having that in the back of my mind, like, well, if something doesn't happen by May, um, I'll reconsider. But at the time, it was it was the only focus. I was not trying to get any other job except get my foot in the door in the NFL.
SPEAKER_00:How many hours did it take to write all those letters, to do all that research, to reverse engineer who knows who from 1979 to 2008 or whatever the numbers were? How long did that take you?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, coaches, coaches that are listening will understand because it's like you're at the office so much and you're like everything you do is you are a coach, right? And especially that lifestyle, you know, it's seven days a week. It's I I mean, a 10-hour day would be kind of an easy day. And so I really just never turned it off for for 12 years while I was coaching. So I have no idea how long it took. But um, I I you know, I'm I'm very I'm a huge organizational nerd. Um, like that type of just project in general is like right in my alley. So even if I was at home watching a watching a Dallas Mavericks game or watching a football game, I guarantee you I was sitting there watching the game with my computer in front of me, like making these spreadsheets or or writing these letters. I mean, like I uh in my grandmother, grandma and grandpa's pool house, I had like all of the letters like laid out on the floor because I because I was like being very strategic in when I sent the letters, right? I wanted it to land on their desk, not like during week 15 of the season. I wanted it to land there like two weeks after the season was over, whatever, right? Um, so I was just like very methodical and very meticulous about the whole process. And it was like, it was all consuming. It was just, it was every it was everywhere where I lived. Obviously, when I went into work, um, it was there uh with me when I went to work. So I have no idea how much time it took, but you know, that at the at the highest levels um of any business or industry, that's kind of you know, sometimes the the dedication it takes.
SPEAKER_00:I talk to athletes at at all levels, and they'll frequently, frequently, maybe it's not a fair word, but discuss like how they got cheated out of an opportunity, or if they just got an opportunity, they'd be a Division I athlete or an NFL player or a professional baseball player. And I frequently go back to what are you doing to stand out from everybody else? If you're a baseball player, everybody has a million films of them hitting in the cage, hitting some type of target number. You know, if you're a football player, everybody has a huddle film, or everybody has everyone that's looking to play at a higher level has some type of college tape. But what are you doing that separates yourself? And one thing I frequently go back to is why aren't you writing a handwritten letter to every team? If you really want to be a division one athlete, every single division one program should receive a handwritten letter from you. If you want to play in the NFL and you're a fringe guy, every single team and every single person that you can find in that department should receive a handwritten letter from you. And do you know if it's gonna work? No, it may not work, it may not make any impact. But if you do not flip every stone unturned, I don't want to hear how badly you want to do something. Right. And that may be a little harsh, but I think it's the reality when you're looking at those upper echelon levels, each wrong lower you are in the totem pole in terms of your natural talent or perceived talent, you have to do something that nobody else is willing to do. And so you talked earlier about that, that self-awareness, this is how I'm perceived. And so, but I still have the belief I can do this. So it's how do I bridge that gap between how I'm perceived and how I know of what I'm capable of doing? And so, how did you determine in your meticulous planning that it was going to be handwritten letters that was going to be your differentiation factor?
SPEAKER_01:It was very authentic to me. And uh even as like I'm hearing you talk, and I I think like you know, it's so important, you know, especially in today, today's I mean, we don't have to go down like an anime rabbit hole, but like authenticity is gonna be so important moving forward. And um, I just I've always been somebody where I've like I've always written handwritten letters to anybody that's close to me in my inner circle, um, has received numerous handwritten letters from me over the years, and it was just something that resonated with me. And again, like your choices are very limited. Like, how are you gonna get in front of an NFL team? You can't go to an office, you can't get into an NFL facility, right? There's maybe you know 75 people that can get into an NFL facility, um, you know, that don't have a badge, right? Like you can't just walk up to these places and take a tour and get in front of the GM of the Dolphins, right? Like that doesn't happen. So if you can't do that and you can't find their email, and um how are you gonna how are you gonna get in front of them to let them know who you are? Especially if you're me um and you're you know 5'10, 160 pounds soaking wet, and you don't look like a football coach and you didn't play uh college football and you don't have a recognizable name or a recognizable recognizable father, like how on earth are you gonna do it? And I think I was kind of asking myself those questions and like, okay, how on earth am I gonna do this? I don't know, I don't know anybody, right? Like the only people I know that have a connection to the NFL um I'm coaching with at SMU right now. Uh June Jones was a former NFL coach. He had a couple of uh, you know, former NFL coaches on his stuff, but I didn't I didn't know anybody. So all of that to say it was just authentic to me. Um and yes, it was kind of like a small little sliver that you could kind of like I say sneak in, I don't I don't mean it like sneaking in, um, but it's like I I was fully aware that nobody was gonna come calling me and nobody was gonna know who I was if I got in front of them. Um and so what I did was I wanted to kind of like create that small little semblance of connection through these handwritten letters. And I mentioned the um the 10 people I had on my on my hit list at the senior bowl. And so like I had sent these letters. I mean, like, I'm such a nerd that like I stapled my business card to the top right hand corner of every letter just because it was, as you said, like unique. Like, who staples their business card awkwardly to the top right hand corner? It was just like a weird thing that I did. Okay. And so one of the people I was trying to connect with was um a former player called Matt Russell, named Matt Russell. He was, I think at the time, like director of scouting or player personnel with the uh Broncos, I think. And I saw him, right? Like he had played with a coach that I had coached with at SMU, and I saw him in the stands at the Senior Bowl. Um, and for those of you that aren't aware, like the Senior Bowl, it's a college all-star game. It's like the week before the Super Bowl. And every NFL team is there. And every big time decision maker is there. I mean, like you're at the you're at the practice, and it's like Jerry Jones is right there, Bill Parcell is right there, Asley Newsome is right there. I mean, anybody who is making decisions in the NFL is at the senior role. And so I see um I see uh Matt Russell, and he's sitting next to Josh McDaniels, um, at who was the head coach at Denver at the time, and he's sitting with the GM. And I spot them, and I was like, oh, that's Matt Russell. Okay, I wrote him a letter, and he's on my top 10 list because he knows my buddy at SMU. So I went and sat like 15 rows behind him at practice, right? And they're just, it's like Josh McDaniels, the GM, and Matt Russell huddled up. And I'm not about to like go walk up and be like, oh, hey, I'm Evan Burke. I wrote you a handwritten letter um, you know, four weeks ago. So I sat there for like 40 minutes. The moment practice ended, everybody like stands up and I sprinted down the steps and I like ran down the aisle um to where Matt Russell was. And I was like, hey, Matt, I'm Evan Burke. You know my buddy at SMU. I wrote you a letter a couple weeks ago. He goes, Oh, yeah, did you did you stable your business card to the, you know, to the template pregnant courthouse, like, oh, yep, that's me. Oh, hey, man, like we're busy with this. I'm gonna hit you. So all of that to say, I mean, that was just kind of like a long-winded story, but I was doing everything I could to like get in front of these guys for 90 seconds and have it be like, oh, you hand wrote me a letter from SMU on SMU letterhead, right? Um, I was walking after I met Matt, I'm kind of like riding high, I'm feeling good about myself. Like, okay, like check, check somebody off the list. I'm walking down the outside of the stadium by myself, and I see another guy, uh, Brian Gardner, who was the director of pro personnel with the Texans. He's like walking outside the stadium. And so I like time my pace so I like intercept him as I'm coming down this ramp. Oh, hey, Mr. Gardner, you know so-and-so at SMU. I'm Evan Burke. I wrote you a letter. He was like, Oh yeah, hey, how are you? I was like, hey, I'm gonna be in Houston next week. Uh if you have 15 minutes, I would love to come by the facility and meet you. You're gonna be in Houston next week. Yep, I'm gonna be in Houston. And he like was looking at me like, there's no way you're actually gonna be in Houston, which I wasn't. Like, I had no plans to be in Houston. I just threw that out there. And he was like, okay, here's my business card. Email me when you get back to Dallas and tell me your dates when you're gonna be in Houston. I'll see if I can meet you. Um, so I go back to Dallas. I'm like, hey, Mr. Gardner, I'm gonna be in Houston from Monday at 9 a.m. to Friday at 5 p.m., whatever it's like. And uh, of course, I was still in my office at SMU, and uh, I think it was Wednesday that week. He emailed me back, and he was like, uh, hey Evan, it was like four o'clock in the afternoon. He was like, hey Evan, I got 15 minutes for you tomorrow at 10 a.m.
SPEAKER_03:Does that work?
unknown:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Went home, packed my bag, drove down to Houston, crashed on my cousin's couch, woke up in the morning, went to the facility, met Brian Gardner for 15 minutes in the lobby of the uh Houston Texans facility, uh, and then got my car and drove back to Dallas. So I'm I'm having story time with you. I don't know if any of this is interesting, but like those are the things I was doing to like get any type of like FaceTime or any type of anything that would separate me in one small way to like getting my foot in the door.
SPEAKER_00:What do you think it is that other people who may want the same thing just aren't willing to do some of these things? Like, is this an innate thing that you have? Was it some way that you were raised, or what drove you to really be willing to commit yourself to the steps that are necessary to achieve this desire?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um I think number one, the first thing I think of is is my parents. I I was very blessed with um amazing parents who always supported me. Even when I, you know, I told them I was going into coaching, they had no idea what that means, you know. My mom's an attorney, my dad's a businessman. Like they don't have they have no idea what that means. Um, and uh I'm sure they were mortified, but they never let me know that. And um, in particular, my mother just breathed so much uh I said delusional confidence earlier, and I think my mom really breathed like the realistic confidence in me. That is like borderline delusional, right? Um as mothers will tend to do. But it was it was not like, oh, you can achieve anything. It was like, well, if you're willing to work at it, you can achieve anything.
SPEAKER_00:And so I think that um, you know, again, I I kind of like I think that balance from that's a really important piece though, because there is too much of the oh, you can achieve anything, but nobody tells you what's downstream of achieving anything that you want. There is severe commitment level, again, levels to this game that you are looking to climb the ladder. Well, each ladder or each step or rung on the ladder that you're looking to climb is an extra level of commitment. And I think there's a lot of people that have certain desires, but aren't willing to do what's required. You talk to anybody in this industry, and particularly those who weren't tenure NFL veterans or have a big name or have family in the industry, it is an absolute grind. It sucks for a long period of time. The hours are relentless, nobody's giving you a pat on the back saying it's okay, Bobby. It is you have to have this internal relentlessness required to elevate yourself in these fields. And I think that that's something that's not articulated enough. Now, I'll say it's a counter-argument myself. If a lot of people knew what was required when they stepped foot in, they may have just automatically stepped out. But when they stepped their foot in, they kind of had this fight or flight, like, okay, I'm here now, time to go. But for the most part, I think that there's a really unrealistic understanding of what's required to do the things that you've you've done. You did all that. You think you said you got 10 or 12 responses, and you finally get your foot in the door with the dolphins. And I think there's a massive lesson in this to anybody, not maybe not even football, but just athletics or high achieving fields in general. There are billions of people in this world that want that job. What makes you different? What are you willing to do?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think another key piece to this is the people surrounding you. The, you know, the first people I mentioned, or the first thing I mentioned, were my parents. And I think like having, even though I didn't have a big coaching network at the time, again, I had only coached in high school when I was still a student at University of Colorado. And then my first kind of like real job was at SMU, so I really didn't have a ton of experience. But I did have a couple of coaches close to me. And again, I had other coaches that I was friendly with, but those were the ones that were like, oh yeah, you like go get a small level job, grind your way up the ladder, you know, all these different things. And I was remember thinking, like, no, that doesn't fit me. That doesn't seem right. That doesn't seem right. And then I had the people that were closest to me that I kind of like had the most trust in that were like breathing that life into me. So it was kind of like the uh people on the outside were maybe kind of like telling me other things, and um particularly in athletics, right? Like ignoring the noise is like so important because especially now in the day of like social media where it's like you can just get online and find whatever opinion you want on anything, right, that fits your narrative, but you really need people close to you that will be honest with you, that will tell you like it is, but at the same time lift you up. And I think that I as I kind of like reflect back and look back at like a lot of the people in my inner circle, so to speak, um, they're people that I I learn from uh constantly, but that are also you know extremely close to me in terms of friendships and and help kind of when I'm down on myself, I think about those people. I think about like the conversations we've had, I think about like the way they view me. And it's like, how can I view if I'm like in a moment, um, if I'm in a valley or I'm like in a moment of adversity, how can I look at myself like this when these people I think so much of look at me like this, right? And I think like that's so crucial, especially for athletes, is just being mindful of the people surrounding you. Um and that doesn't mean like the people closest to you are always right, um, but it's it's so crucial to be um uh maybe stingy or or um maybe just like very considerate and intentional about the opinions that you listen to and the people that have the most impact and influence that that you can bring into the inner circle.
SPEAKER_00:I I agree. I think that's something that you need to be ruthless about to be pretty like harsh with the word is like you only have so much time in this world. And so only so many people deserve your time and energy. If you are giving your energy to someone, they better deserve it, right? And you look at the the nuance of your environment, and not everyone knows how, or not everybody is put in the situation to have the the best environment, but to the best of your abilities to ruthlessly pick who you trust, who's gonna be honest with you, and know who's gonna serve a role, right? So, for example, some people like uh you know, particularly, if I needed feedback on how to be a better defensive back, I wasn't calling my mom. Right. So my mom can't serve that role for me. My stepdad can't serve that role for me. So it's who in my life, uh, if it's not my coaching staff, can I call that's gonna make me a better defensive back? Fortunately, my uncle's a head coach and a defensive guru somewhere. So I can pick up the phone and call him. Hey, this is what I'm seeing. How do I need to get better? Okay. He's also my no BS guy. He's gonna tell me, Colin, sorry for swearing, guys, you're being a little bitch. I'll be like, you're right, you are. But you know what? If I need a hug or I need someone to pat me on the back, I can call up my wife. She was my girlfriend at the time, I can call my mom and they'll tell me I'm the greatest thing ever. It's knowing what you need when you need it and having the people to serve those roles. And when you can be ruthless like that, right? And then obviously bigger decision making, there's more nuance to the conversation, but you can eliminate, like you said, the outside noise because we do need feedback to grow. The problem is we're in a society where there's an overabundance of feedback from people who are not qualified to give it or who only see outcomes, but don't see everything underneath in the process that leads to certain outcomes. And you bring up a point that some of those people were saying, hey, you need to go get a lower level job, earn experience. You know, and this is why it's really important on who you take advice from. Because a lot of the people I speak to in the NFL now, they say if you want to be in the NFL, you get your foot in the door in the NFL. You want to be a division one coach, you get your foot in the door at the division one level. Clearly, there's examples everywhere of people getting to different levels by different paths, but it's important to know yourself, like you said, and understand who's giving you the advice and where their perspective is coming from.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. How do you think, as like you have grown and matured, how have you kind of sourced or found kind of like new people in your life, whether it's friends or professional acquaintances, or do you find yourself kind of like still leaning on the same people that you've been close to over the years?
SPEAKER_00:That's a great question. It it evolves over time. Um, everybody is going through different stages of their lives at different points. And so to be cognizant and aware of that, I'll tell you how mine has grown. Honestly, there's people I've met on the podcast that have now become part of my inner circle. People I go to, hey, you've been here, you've seen this, you've done this. What's your perspective? What am I missing? And, you know, then there's people who've been there forever that I still go back to that I lean on. And I think it's that kind of that evolution is when you meet new people, you put yourself out there, right? You connect with others. You know, there's people that I hadn't spoken to for 10 years. 10 years ago, didn't have like a super best friend relationship with them. But because I reached out and reconnected with people, they've now become people that are like in my inner circle. And I think as you go through time in your own life and you begin to put yourself out there with experiences, you're gonna meet a lot of new people and you're gonna kind of redefine what you need. And then when you redefine what you need, you can kind of lean into some of these other people that you may meet and just build these deeper relationships and deeper bonds. Um, so it's kind of a multi-facet awareness process, putting yourself out there type um, you know, scenario. But that's how it works for me. Um and really I'm fortunate because you know, I I played at a high level, so I have a ton of different people that I can reach out to at any given time. Um, but I think that's the that's the the big thing is is being willing to kind of put yourself out there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I coached for 12 years in the NFL and in college. And when I left, I maybe left uh 10 years ago now, and um one of the things I didn't quite understand about that transition was you know, you're in these like ultra-competitive environments all the time. And um, for anybody that's been in those environments, you're well aware that like you're not always getting along with everybody. Like, you know, you may only have a handful of people in those environments that are like actually like close, close friends. Um, but everybody that's there is kind of like pursuing the same goal, um, and like very, very ambitious and and and definitely a high achiever. And that's hard to find or replicate in the the the real world, so to speak, um, um, outside of those environments. And so I think I struggled initially, you know, just trying to kind of like how do you make friends uh if it's not gonna be through work? And uh yeah, I I I live in New York City now, but I moved here two years ago when I was 40. And um very uh I I appreciate adventure in my life. I like that type of freedom to be able to pick up and make that move. Um, but there was all there's a lot of unknowns and a lot of uncertainty and a lot of challenge to that. And uh I'm 40, so like, you know, in my 20s, I would go out all the time and I can't do that anymore, right? So you gotta like do, you know, but I joined a right a writing club uh here, and it's just like you know, it's different types of conversations, but like the quality of people is incredibly high. And where I may not have been aware of that a decade ago, now I'm like hypersensitive to that. And uh, even though it's a different way for me of like connecting with people and making friends, now it's like, oh, like I want to be around these people, like their energy is awesome, everybody's doing cool things, um, everybody's super ambitious. We're all from like these kind of like these different backgrounds, and and we come together on Sundays and write. And so uh anyway, this this theme of like people surrounding you, and then like how do you find new people to surround you um is uh is just an interesting topic. So on that tangent with me.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean I got this advice. I mean, I I've got had the chance to meet him and have the podcast have him on the podcast multiple times now, but Clint Hurdle has his newsletter. And years ago, years ago, before I ever had the chance to speak with him or meet with him, in one of his newsletters, it was like the headline was, you know, be the dumbest person in the room. And the premise was like, the only way that you can learn and evolve is by being the dumbest person in a room and learning from people smarter than you. And it was once you find yourself to be the smartest person in a room, go find a new room to be in. And so as I got older and I talked about putting myself out there and putting myself in new experiences, I was constantly looking for people I could learn from, people that I felt were smarter than me in the fields that I wanted to learn about. And so I took to social media to reach out to people. You know, I think that's one of the amazing things about social media. That's how we ended up getting connected, is reaching out to people like, hey, whatever the reason is, you've inspired me because of X, Y, and Z. I've I've used that before. Hey, I'm gonna be in New York this day. Can we go to lunch? I've used that exact line. Wasn't had no plans of being in New York. And it works out. And so putting yourself in these scenarios, then you develop these relationships and you can kind of learn. In some relationships, you get are a little deeper than others, but then it's like, hey, how can I learn from you and how can I be a value to you as well? And that's how you can kind of start curating your circle of people that you lean on, is by putting yourself in positions that one you either feel you're not qualified to be in yet, but maybe could be, and then learn through that process as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Really cool that you've been able to connect with people through the podcast and build those relationships, like you said.
SPEAKER_00:It's uh it's the my favorite thing about the podcast is the continuous learning, but the relationships. There's not too many people I've had on the pod that I don't at least touch base once a year. You know, I I think that has been my my favorite thing is the wealth of knowledge and experiences that people bring. And stories like this. I mean, the ridiculousness in a good way to be willing to write 450 handlet letters, go to Mobile Alabama to introduce yourself to these people, not a lot of people have that willingness to do that, and that needs to be highlighted for generations of people who want to achieve something meaningful in their own lives.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I appreciate you letting me share, man.
SPEAKER_00:Um now, when you look at your relationship in terms of what you're doing now, what is something that you know now that you wish you could have told your younger self?
SPEAKER_01:Well, what I should have done is I should have gone and gotten a job at LSU in 2006 when Nick Saban was the head coach, and they had like uh I think like 10 future D1 head coaches on their staff. The benefit of the baby that would have been the real uh piece of advice that I would have told myself.
SPEAKER_03:But I think honestly, I think it's about just appreciating the journey.
SPEAKER_01:I think I was so focused. As you can just kind of tell from my stories, I'm like very ambitious. I set super high goals. I am striving relentlessly to achieve those goals all the time. That's all I think about. And when I was passing out Chick-fil-A's at SMU, it was like, how do I how do I become a G A? When I was a G A, it was how do I get on the field? How do I be be a full-time on-the-field coach? Uh when I got to the NFL, it was like, how do I, you know, how do I get the next the next gig? And you know, I mentioned kind of jokingly, like living in my grandparents' pool house, obviously, because I wasn't I was a volunteer coach at SMU, I wasn't making money. Like that was the greatest time in my life. Right? I'm fortunate uh like at the time, both my grandparents were alive. I had like a very close relationship with them. You know, it's all in North Dallas where I'm from. Uh and like at the time, if you had talked to me, it would have been like, man, how am I gonna get I gotta get to LSU? I gotta get to the I gotta get to the NFL. And my mom used to always say, you know, bloom where you're planted. And I think that there's just kind of, as you said, like life goes fast. Things don't always stay the same. And um, especially if you're like pursuing a kind of like high-level coaching or in athletics, it's an incredibly brutal business. The profession is great, but like the business is brutal. And I think sometimes we as high achievers are always focused on like what's next and not just appreciating, you know, you're looking at what you don't have um and not focusing on what you do have. And my grandfather said it best um, you know, as you wander down the road of life, whatever be your goal, uh keep your eye upon the donut and not upon the hole. And I think like that is very poetic in terms of focusing on what you have uh and not on what you don't have.
SPEAKER_00:It's the it's the hedonic treadmill, you know, it's the always looking forward to what's next. And you know, everyone who's ambitious is going to go through that period. And now I don't want to say you need to be chasing something meaningful. I do believe that is a key component to living a fulfilling life, but it's not letting you know that undirected ambition steal your joy from what you're doing. And there's no guarantee that what you do next is going to make you happier than what you're currently doing. And yeah, that curating of that awareness that we keep going back to, it's it's tough, particularly when you're in the journey. You know, I think that is you can listen to every successful person ever say that same thing. Appreciate the journey because that's where it's the best. But the caveat to that I will say is if you never achieve it, it's hard to really appreciate the journey because it will feel wasted. So there's this constant tug and pull for every internal competitor.
SPEAKER_02:The trick is you have to learn to be present.
SPEAKER_00:And that there's no guarantee that when you achieve whatever you're setting out to achieve, that you'll be happier or more fulfilled than where you currently are. And so taking appreciation, like you said, look at the look at the circle, not the hole on the donut.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, be present, you know, be grateful for the things that you do have doesn't mean you're not ambitious, but just take time to appreciate where you are and everything that you do have in your life because those things could be taken away at any point in time as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. Can I get fired up for a second? Yes. So, like Lane Tiffin, um who I think anybody that's a fan of football would argue as good as an offensive play caller as he is, is really not experienced any type of high-level success as a head coach. Just took the job at LSU, right? And I was texting with a coaching buddy of mine. And the text I sent was what is the point of coaching, like why do you get into coaching, right? To make a ton of money uh and to win a national championship, if we're talking about like high-level coaching, right? Like if you make it, what are you hoping, what are you hoping to achieve, right? Like, yes, impact, yes, developing people, yes, all that stuff, but like you can do that at Oxford High School. But if you make it to like the big leagues, what are you what is the aim? It's to make money, I get it, and it's to win a national championship. And you got a guy that that checks both of those boxes at a place, this is my own like coaching theory now, but it's like at a place where they will revere you, um, to kind of like sell your soul for lack of a better term, um, to to like go where the quote unquote grass is greener. Uh it not not that like they've had success in the past and they had a good season this year. Like, they're on the cusp of competing for a national championship. All of us that were ever in coaching, when we would sit in the sweat box at UCLA and be like scripting practices, we'd be talking about, well, one day when we'll like we get the chance to run our own programs, and it's like you're there. You're there. Like, this is it, buddy. Um, and I think Lane's got his own issues or or whatnot, but I think this is like a perfect example of like, what are you doing? Um I I get these other guys that are like at the small time, but like Lane's had the big jobs, like, and we all know how this is gonna end, right? Like, he's not gonna be there in four years, and like I'm sure he'll crash and burn, and like it's gonna be a disaster. But it is gonna be super fun to watch, and I'm gonna be watching every YouTube talking about and talking about it. Um, but it just super fires me up because it's like you made it, bro. You made it, like you had your moment where like you were torn down and you built yourself back up, and like you're there, and like they're gonna build a statue of you if you stay there and and then you leave. And it's like, okay, maybe he likes being the villain, maybe he wants the money, but it's like, I don't know. I get on this like thing where it's like, okay, so to like what end? Like, I I guarantee you, every every place has problems. When you're at SMU, you're looking at UCLA and you're like, God, gosh damn, if I could just get to UCLA, all my problems would be solved. You're at UCLA, you're like, oh my god, we're dealing with this, this, and this. If I could just get to the Miami Dolphins, like all my problems would be solved. And guess what? Everybody's dealing with the same problems. Okay, let me calm down here. I've had way too much coffee today, but like, you know, we're talking about like, you know, pursuing excellence and like what are we in this for? And like, this is just top of mind because it just happened this week. So my apologies.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's uh that is a good place to wrap because there's a lot of truth in there. Hey Lane, I'd love to have you on the show, man. Um but uh, you know, at the end of the day, you know, I agree with a lot of the points that you made. Obviously, I'm not there, I'm not in Lane's juice. He makes his decisions, he's gotta sleep in the bed he makes. That's every single person in this industry, in this world. You make decisions, you gotta live with those decisions. Um, you know, I I really just I do subscribe, and hey, it may change in five, 10 years, my beliefs, but I subscribe to the belief the grass is not always greener. You said it, there's problems everywhere. If X, Y, and Z doesn't show a clear path to me feeling better about what I'm doing or give me a clear, better path to quote unquote success, you know, it why? Why, you know, and I I think that's a question a lot of people battle, whether it's regular switching jobs or whether it's high-level executives and companies, whether it's high coaching, whether it's players looking to sign new contracts, you know. So I think there's a lot of nuance, a lot of details. I think there's a lot of human elements that people don't evaluate enough in those scenarios.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:But I can't thank you enough, brother, for coming on. Um, if people want to reach out to you, if you have projects that you're working on that you want to promote, um, please tell us where people can reach you and uh you know take the time to promote what you got going on.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'm putting out a lot of content um on YouTube around sports leadership. So you can check out my channel on YouTube. And um, if you want to check out my book, it's on Amazon. It's called Finding Intangibles.
SPEAKER_00:Hell yeah, baby. I appreciate you coming on, man. Listeners, thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_03:Thanks for having me, dude.
SPEAKER_00:You're welcome back anytime.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Listeners, thank you for tuning in. Tune in next week. Download the pod, subscribe to our YouTube channel. Five stars only, baby. Appreciate you, Evan.
SPEAKER_03:Thanks, Colin.