How To Build ‘Rock’ Athletes- Trent Mongero

National High School Baseball Coach of the Year Trent Mongero and I trace the shared DNA of elite performance across music and sport, then drill into how discipline, intent, and humility turn average days into winning outcomes. Along the way we tackle parents, politics, and building robust athletes who thrive in chaos.

• parallels between stage performance and sport
• professionals separating feelings from behaviors
• systems and routines that raise the performance floor
• redefining success and giving freedom to fail
• modeling excellence and building “rocks”
• role clarity for nonstar players and honest feedback
• humility, staff building, and teaching the meat and potatoes
• parents’ impact, sideline behavior, and better postgame talks
• coaching your own kid with boundaries and trust
• choosing high school coaching for family and legacy

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Transcript

Parallels Of Performance

SPEAKER_01 0:00

There's definitely parallels between all elements of performance. And it doesn't matter if you're a performer on stage, a performer on the field, or performer, you know, in the investment world or running a business. There's so many different parallels between the type of emotions and skills that are required to navigate that space. I'd actually love to hear a little bit more about, you know, what your conversation with with Dave Matthews was like in terms of how he handled some of those expectations and pressures.

Dave Matthews On Consistent Excellence

Professionals Perform Regardless Of Feelings

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Yeah. Um, you want me to dive into it now? I mean, I will. Or you want to just hit it. Hit it right now. So Dave, you know, I don't claim to know every nuance of his inner thoughts. Um, he's a very talented human being. We grew up together and um we forged a friendship as as children, same school, same grades, um, on the playground, playing sports. But, you know, over the years, when Dave and I reconnected, probably about 15 years ago, maybe longer, uh, when I finally realized that Dave Matthews was David Matthews that I grew up with, didn't even didn't even know for a long time. I started, I had a chance to like, you know, ask him some questions because I was very curious how he can bring it. You know, each and every night he he has a schedule, a tour schedule that is off the charts. I mean, for over 30 years now, and night in and night out for over three hours, he's got to get up there and, you know, people are expecting his best. And I asked him if he was nervous and he said, not so much anymore. He has a little bit of jitters, you know, walking out when he first, you know, goes out there. It's kind of, I guess, a heightened response, which I think most athletes would welcome. I think that's the adrenaline that allows us to focus. And uh, we know something's at stake, right? And uh it's not just a, you know, a casual walk in the park. We we gotta perform, but we're confident in our performance. So, you know, he said he gets nervous, but he said, really, like the show's gotta go on. Because one time I went to visit him, like, you know, he gives me tickets and I go, and um, he was really sick, like, really sick. And I'm like, you know, what do you do? Like he was losing his voice. He had the flu. He's like, the show must go on, man. He was getting, he said, I, you know, get steroid shots in my vocal cords, you know, whatever I gotta do to make sure that I can perform. And uh, so, you know, I think that leads in good to just parallels of athletes and businessmen and everything, like we were talking about. There's no magic formula. He's just super talented, super skilled, super confident. He's been doing this for over 30 years. It's who he is, and he knows how to, you know, get himself prepared. Um, he enjoys what he does. You know, it's it's fun. He loves entertaining people. He loves knowing that people enjoy his music. He feels very blessed. He's mentioned that many times. Like, he feels like he's very blessed to have the success that he's had and that people truly embrace his musical styles and not just him, the whole band, right? Like we're talking about the band. But they're uh they're a well-oiled machine and they they all know how to bring their A game each and every night. And just like an athlete, you never know who's gonna be seeing you play for the first time. There's this element of what we call the law of 33, which, you know, some nights you're gonna feel your best, sometimes you're gonna feel, you know, that 33, middle 33, you're not. Bottom 33, you feel horrible, you're sick, you got the flu, your arm hurts, whatever, you're you're not locked in in the pen, but you still got to go out and you gotta find a way to bring your best each and every night. And that's what professionals do. They just, it's not about emotion, it's not about how you feel. And I think Dave would encompass that in uh, you know, the messages he shared with me. You're just a you become a consummate professional and you learn how to navigate the world in that space. And and that's what he does really well, obviously.

Teaching Discipline To Young Athletes

SPEAKER_01 3:51

The it doesn't matter how you feel, you still have to find a way to perform is incredibly powerful. How do you democratize that from the highest level and engineer it with some of the youth and high school athletes that you're working with?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

So to me, it start by trying to plant seeds of discipline, like, you know, motivation versus discipline, feelings, emotions. You know, the game of baseball or any game doesn't care about how you feel. It's about being disciplined enough to be able to focus. And, you know, for instance, I use the weight room as a parallel. I talk about, you know, how often young athletes don't feel like lifting, right? It's it's mundane, it's the same thing for the most part, over and over and over. And how do you learn to get into the weight room and put that sweat equity in, sweat equity in when you don't feel like it is a skill. And it's got to be grown. But if you can help people conceptualize this process and understanding, I think it speeds up that process. You don't have to just kind of navigate that road yourself and reinvent the wheel. You can kind of embrace that understanding. It's not that hard to understand. Like that, that our what we do is not about how we feel. They they kind of go, Oh, yeah, that makes sense. You know, and then you go, well, you got to be able to learn how to bring your A game every day. If you want to play high-level high school baseball, college baseball, professional baseball, or any sport for that matter, everybody's super skilled. So it really boils down to these mental tools that you have that allow you to do things when other people kind of kind of put it down. And there's a lot of people that don't work when they don't feel like that.

Motivation Versus Process

SPEAKER_01 5:32

I love the dichotomy between emotions, motivation, discipline, obsession, because I always say the there has to be a pull. You have to have you have to feel something pulling you to be able to do this for a very long time. So the motivation or the element of motivation is important. However, motivation is fleeting. And you need to have processes and systems that keep you consistent, that keep you disciplined, that keep you going hard in the weight room and making sure that every rep is intentional and that you don't lose focus of the long-term vision. And when that long-term has a strong enough pull, the discipline and the consistency can become more, I should say, smooth. And it's harmonious when you find the athlete with the talent, with the motivation, with the obsession, with the discipline. And it's just amazing to watch them climb. Now, as a coach who's done this for a very, very long time, who's been a national high school coach of the year, how infrequent is it to find that athlete? And then how do you use that athlete as a model for the other athletes you're working with?

Rare “Rocks” And Modeling Excellence

SPEAKER_00 6:47

They're rare. Um, I mean, I I consider those guys rocks, and rocks are like 3% of the human population. So it's very rare to find all those ingredients working together. And I use any source of information or examples of what we're talking about right here, whether it be a tweet or something on social media or, you know, like maybe one of your podcasts, I would pull out a clip and share it with my players, like just trying to piggyback on the thoughts that I'm constantly sharing with them. So I'm just dripping on them every day knowledge. But when I see something modeled that I want them to embrace, I always point it out because we learn by seeing. You know, it's kind of like at camp. If I'm teaching something at our Dirt Bro Infield camp and I see this person right here really gets it. And I stop the whole camp and I say, look, you know, go ahead and perform this skill for everybody, and they do it. Everybody else kind of goes, aha, okay. Yeah, like I can see. I can see there's a difference there. There's a difference in their posture, there's a difference in their intensity, there's a difference in their consistency and their smoothness and whatever it might be. And now they can more readily apply that themselves. It's very rare to find these athletes, but uh there's a lot of athletes out there that have pieces and education goes a long way. Like, just because you're not a rock, as I call them to start with, doesn't mean you can't evolve into a rock. And that's one of the things that I try to do with at my camps is I help people understand, like, all right, great. We want to be rocks. How do we become rocks? You know, and you've touched on some of it, you know, the process and so forth. And I do want to take a step back and touch again on the motivation. I do think that motivation, long-term, short-term motivation, is key to being disciplined. I tell people all the time, like, when you don't feel like working, if there's something that you can pull on, that bad taste in your mouth from that game or being cut or being slighted, or, you know, you just have this in your heart, this internal motivation that of greatness. You just want to be great. You know, I remember Trot Nixon of the Boston Red Sox when he was in high school, and I actually was coaching then against him. Of course, he was the right fielder for the Red Sox in 2004 when they reversed the curse. He's a he's a dog, like he's in the Red Sox Hall of Fame. I remember in high school him saying, My goal is to be the best hitter that ever walked the face of the earth. He wasn't afraid to say that, right? Like most people would cower speaking those words, like, who am I? Now, he he didn't just run around saying it, but it, but if you asked him, you know, that was his goal. So he had the confidence and the wherewithal to know where he wanted to go. So motivation is, I think it is very helpful to stay disciplined. But if you if you if you have to have one or the other, I would take discipline because motivation can kind of come and go on you, like you mentioned.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Now, when you get a athlete who may lack self-awareness, who may not be a rock or anything close, but they think they are, how do you navigate that conversation? You can throw parents into this bucket as well. Right, right. Very carefully.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

You know, you have to use your words wisely as a coach. You want to build people up. It's kind of like you can make a parallel between the player that you're talking about right now and building a program. Like, you know, everything is about emphasizing the things that work, cutting the things that don't, showing people what works, being able to give them examples. And you just continually build this model and this mindset of what a champion does and how they go about their business and that they have a process to fall back on. Um, I use a lot of professional athletes as examples, like Adam Wainwright, who's a friend of mine. Um, he allowed me to do a podcast with him, and he was very transparent about his journey and how skill alone only takes you so far. You know, you have to have process, you have to have intent. And once you can find those things, everybody, it just raises the level of everybody. And then you, so whether it's a person or whether it's a team, you see intervals, right? And everybody thinks we're in a microwave society. They just think like you just get this magic pill, this magic formula, secret sauce, and voila, you know, I'm a champion. But it's really the the daily grind, often year after year after year, of learning from failure, you know, carrying that growth with you, learning from the failure, setting it aside, being able to learn how to have all these things. I mean, there's just like so many little things that have to come together to succeed and be a champion. And I'm not trying to send your audience all over the place, but it is a journey for sure.

Redefining Success And Embracing Failure

SPEAKER_01 11:30

I think about the word intent, right? You say intent, and that's one of my like pillars of importance is how intentional are you in what you're doing? You know, are you intentional in your diet? Are you intentional in your sleep? Um, are you intentional in your pre-competition routine, your post-competition routine, your in the middle of competition, routines, anchors, things that you can utilize, how intentional are you being so that when something goes wrong, you can analyze your process? The problem, I think, with young athletes is that maturity aspect and making sure that they can handle enough of the disciplines and processes. I don't want to call it dumbing down or watering down, but when you utilize language with younger athletes as opposed to when you speak with a professional athlete, what are some of the ways that you curate your language for the younger guys?

SPEAKER_00 12:21

One of the things I really try to do is redefine success, you know, especially young players with baseball and how much failure. I mean, it's the most self-esteem, uh self-esteem defeating sport on the planet. When it, you know, especially the offensive side of this game, and they they equate hits with success. So we have to redefine what success is. We also have to provide freedom for failure. When you teach something, tension is the enemy. So mental tension, physical tension is the enemy. And young players are trying to impress. They want to win spots on the team, they want to win starting positions, they want you to like them, they want you to promote them, you know. So most of them that care are trying very hard. So it's really just a matter of process of redefining success and helping them understand that failure is a piece that they need to embrace and that I'm gonna give them permission to fail, you know, up to a point. You know, there comes a cleaning up over time, more physical failure than mental failure, although you get a little bit the younger you are, the the more freedom you get there as well. Right. So the better you are, the less freedom you have for mental failure, you know, baseball IQ situational awareness moments. But the physical piece, you have all the freedom in the world. We're gonna make mistakes. And when you allow that freedom, I think it really allows players to maximize their growth. Uh I see huge growth potential in players when you give them that, you know, they know that you have your their back, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

What is that line of failure that you have freedom within before it becomes time to get into the lineup or not? And how do you articulate, hey, I've given you the space to fail, but maybe it's been a little too much?

Freedom To Fail And Lineup Decisions

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Well, that's a a case-by-case thing. How deep is my team? How much talent do I have around this player? I mean, if if you know, when I first took over the program I'm coaching Nano, we didn't have a ton of talent. We had a lot of players trying hard. So the better players got a lot more freedom to fail. You know, they got a lot more opportunity. If you have somebody breathing down your neck, you know, again, what are we talking about here? Are we talking about like youth level baseball or sports? We're talking about high school, we're talking about college because the the you know, the pyramid goes up. And as the pyramid goes up, the freedom to fail goes, it gets less. And you know, you play Division I baseball, you come in, they're not gonna allow you all this freedom to fail. You know, you have to have had a process and a figuring out time, and you have to show enough skill that you got there. So now, you know, but high school players, youth players, you got to give them that freedom. So to answer your question, honestly, it I can't give you a blanket answer because it really depends on a lot of factors, and depth of my roster has a lot to do with how much freedom you get over time. If we're loaded, the state championship teams that I've coached, you know. Uh I will say this if you're a proven player, okay, you're a proven player. Um, what I mean by that is you started as a junior on our team, you hit 450 down in Georgia, you you're you're uh a Division I prospect, you've had a great year your junior year, and you get off to a really slow start your senior year. Okay. That person, I'm gonna give a lot more freedom to struggle early on because I know what they're capable of, they've already proven themselves. If it's somebody coming up to varsity for the first time and we have a, you know, a lot of competition, that player might not get quite that much freedom. They're gonna probably, I'm gonna pull the plug on that person, you know, a little bit quicker. Now, if it's a freshman, this is why I'm telling you there's so many scenarios. If it's a freshman starting on varsity, which I've only had five in 35 years, but they're the best option. If you're gonna like sink your teeth into a freshman on a varsity roster, you have to allow that player some freedom to fail. Um, you know, they're they're gonna come up and they might struggle right away. It's like a guy that gets into the big leagues for the first time, right? If you just bash them and immediately send them right back down to the minors, you can really get in their head. And we're not talking about professional baseball players, we're talking about high school and youth level players. So they're way more fragile on the mental side. Every situation dictates a different response. It's it's just not like this magic math formula that you can apply. But hopefully I've given you some scenarios that help people understand, you know, that there is an element of this that you have to navigate as a coach and as a player.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

What do you do for the guys who maybe not crack the starting lineup, particularly when they're younger, and let them know that you have not forgotten about them and that they are still a part of this program and their development matters to you and the program and to themselves. What do you maybe do to help curate that confidence in them?

Valuing Nonstar Players And Roles

SPEAKER_00 17:22

That's a great question. And it's a huge challenge. The players do matter. At practice, they get every opportunity, all the attention of the coaching staff that any, you know, starter would get. So they're gonna have opportunities to prove themselves day in and day out. I'm gonna coach them up just as hard as I am any other player on the team. Um, I talk to players about their roles and I let them know that their roles can change. They are always welcome to come talk to me. Personally, my door is open, not during a game, but they can come talk to me and we'll have an honest conversation. I tell the parents all the time, you know, I'm not ruthless. I got a heart, you know, I understand. And even in my own journey and probably your journey, as you mentioned, you know, we have come to points where we were not the starter or we were fighting to get in a lineup and the challenges that entails, right? And so you got to be able to take a step back and understand we're dealing with the human element and people. And, you know, they need to know that they're valued. I'm not talking about kissing their butt or anything like that. But um, you know, if you can provide a role for them, if you can define a role, if they accept the role, you know, that's also another conversation with some players going into a season. Like, hey, you're a senior right now. This is where I kind of see you. Are you willing to embrace that? Because we can't have you pulling the team down from behind the scenes because you're not happy, you know. So I think ultimately it just boils down to showing that you care. And that's actions, that's literally coaching players up that are not, you know, that play a handful of innings the first 20 games compared to your superstar that's, you know, committed to LSU. Um, if they feel that they're getting the same attention and care, I think that goes a long way. Not saying they're gonna be happy on the bench, and nor should they be happy, but they have to learn to embrace decisions by the coaching staffs and be good team players, right? So these are coach speak a lot, but it's also real. It's real and authentic. When you can apply it, your team chemistry goes a long way.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

What have you done differently to have the level of success that you've had that maybe other coaches don't understand or don't know how to implement?

What Great Coaches Do Differently

SPEAKER_00 19:37

I well, I don't, you know, I'm not a guru. I think I'm a worker and I'm a student of the game. And I've I've, you know, there's a lot of people that talk the talk when it comes to coaching, and and they're not willing to walk the walk. Either because they're not confident in the knowledge that they have, or they don't want to work, or maybe both. So I feel like I have learned as a player, because I was a student of the game, I needed every advantage to succeed, and I've been able to embrace that, and then I have ways that I can articulate it where my players understand. But I focus on the meat and potatoes of what wins games until mastery occurs. And then at that point, we start adding in, you know, the a la carte stuff, the desserts, the things that can help you win a championship. But before you can win a championship, you got to start winning games. And there's physical skills in the game of baseball that have to be emphasized and worked on on a daily basis, catch play being one of them. If you can elite, if you're an elite level thrower and receiver of the baseball as a team, you're gonna win a lot of games on defense. And that's a, for instance, that's a as an example. Um I just I'm willing to put in the work in the in-season, in the off-season, in the summers. You know, I look for every opportunity to teach the game, but yet make practices fun and challenging, make them engaging where players aren't sitting around. I'm also not afraid, Colin, to hire quality people and have them around me. You can't you can't do it all yourself. So, you know, if Adam Wainwright, I used to joke with him. I'm like, you're gonna be my pitching coach? You know, I was coaching at the school that Adam went to high school at, and he would come work out with us, you know, before he'd go to spring training. He was talking about maybe possibly retiring, which he is now. And this is when I was, I'm not at that school anymore. But um, I enjoyed it there. And uh, so I would say to Adam, like, hey, you're gonna be my pitching coach. He's like, You're gonna still be here, you know, when I retire. I said, Well, that's the plan. He said, Well, if you are, I'll be your pitching coach. Point being, like, I'm not intimidated by people with knowledge. Okay. I I don't need a bunch of yes men around me. I want the best baseball people that I can possibly have on my staff. And it makes a huge difference. And a lot of times, Colin, it takes time to build a staff like that. You know, the school I'm at right now, I have a tremendous staff. Well, it took four years to build that staff. A lot of times it starts off with just you. Maybe you find one other person, people you can trust, but yet have knowledge, that are willing to work just as hard as you are, that care, that are loyal. When you find those people, you can multiply the impact that you could have individually. And that's when I think programs really start to take off.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

There's this element of a lot of successful people that you're demonstrating now, which is the element of humility. You started that off with, hey, listen, I'm not a guru. And each level you climb in like truly successful people and successful by definition of, you know, achievement. There's this humility that they know they don't know everything. They know that they've experienced a lot, they put their heart and soul into their craft, and they do know a lot, but they always have that element of humility. Is that something you're cognizant of? Or did you have to work on that humility or did life teach it to you on its own?

Humility, Consistency, And Growth

SPEAKER_00 23:05

I think it's just a part of my makeup. I mean, who am I to think like, you know, I got it all figured out? I'm just a human being who loves baseball. I'm a student of the game. You know, I've been doing this for 35 years. I don't coach now like I coached 35 years ago. You know, when you come out of playing college, I was blessed to play Division I baseball. So that you could take that as a brag. I I'm just saying that's what I did as a joke. But uh, you know, play it a little bit professionally. But but you come out of that with all this knowledge and you feel like you can just you can make teams win. You can like will them to win. And then you start to realize that it's really about relationships. It's really about teaching the game. It's it's about being the same guy every day, right? It I mean, who do we like to play for? And that's really how I try to be myself, you know, get control of my emotions, be intentional about my behavior in the dugout, learn to get my emotions under grip because the players feed off. Baseball is a game I mentioned. Like it tension is typically a bad thing. And if the coach is living and dying with every play, every call, you know, complaining all the time, yelling at people, you know, that's a that's a that's a rough environment, in my opinion. Is there a time and a place for everything I just mentioned? Sure. But if that's who you are every day, or one day you're Mr. Nice Guy joking around, the next guy you're like, you know, the next day you're somebody totally different. That's inconsistent. So humility to me is, you know I'm a person of faith also, and and that plays into it. I understand my purpose. You know, I'm on a journey through life and I want to pay it forward. So this isn't about me having my face plastered all over social media or newspapers or whatever, how many wins I can accumulate so that I can puff my chest out or anything like that. You know, a lot of wins to me comes with longevity. You know, the longer you coach, the more wins you get. But it's really just who I am, Colin. I I, you know, I'm sure there's people out there that think that I'm cocky and that I'm not humble. And, you know, I'm confident. And sometimes that might be misconstrued, but I'm always willing to listen. I am, I'm always taking notes. I'm always asking the why behind things. I won't, I just want to do things the best. I want to give my players the best possible knowledge that I can give them to help them be successful. And the only way I can do that is to be open. You know, the game's changed in 30, 35 years. I mean, the way we teach is different. Some of the skill sets are taught differently. The drills have modified. Some stuff's the same, some's different. So if you're always, you don't grow, then you're dead. So I'm wide open. I'll talk to anybody, but I'll quickly tell them like, I'll give you my why. And if you give me your why and I go, you know what? That makes more sense. I'm gonna drop my why and I'm adding your why. That's gonna become part of what I do. And over time, you just grow like that.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

I do my best to take that same approach. I call it having strong beliefs loosely held. So I'm confident in have strong beliefs in certain processes and what leads to fulfillment in life, success on the field, you know, success and high performance. Like I said, it's loosely held. If there's something else that's gonna prove that this prior belief was wrong, I'll change it in a heartbeat to get it right. It's not about being right, it's about getting right. And that's something I've done a tremendous job in my own life in revitalizing that part of my personality is it's not about being right, it's about getting it right. In making sure that we're not letting our own ego or desires get in the way of where we want to go, which is like you said, is growth. If you don't grow and you stay stagnant, you have no chance.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

No. I mean, perfectly said. I got nothing more to add to that. You just nailed it. I mean, you you said what I what took me 10 minutes to say, you said in one minute.

Parents, Emotion, And Sideline Influence

SPEAKER_01 26:56

So that's perfect. With parents in your area, because I know in my area, parents are pretty bad, like in terms of the politicking, the getting involved to school and being an alumni from where I am, it gets pretty disheartening to hear some of the things that these coaches and, you know, even the the young, talented athletes have to go through because of parental involvement. Is that something you see a lot of? And how do you handle the parent-coach relationship?

Coaching Your Own Kid Without Chaos

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Right. So parents get a bad rap, and sometimes rightfully so, but there's a lot of good parents out there too, who are trying to do it right and seeking out information, you know, like your podcasts and many other things, because they want to, they want to do a good job. Emotion and logic don't miss, don't mix. So with a parent, there's no more emotional than they can possibly get than watching their own child perform. It brings out, you know, the best and the worst in the parent. And when you can educate them, I think it helps them manage that better, where they can have strategies themselves, you know, to do better based on their own personalities, you know. And I help them, and I try to help them understand, even in my parental meetings, how difficult they make it for their kid if they're constantly intervening, whether it's at a game by yelling instructions or whether it's at home at the dinner table talking negatively about teammates or coaches. So I try to educate my parents. And Colin, honestly, the older I've gotten, the more you know, it's kind of a respect thing. I mean, if you've had enough success, right, like relatively speaking, I've won enough games, I've won some championships, you know, I travel the country speaking. You have a reputation. And if you're consistent with that, I think they listen more. I'm not saying that that they listen all the time, but I don't meet with my parents. Some coaches do. I got a lot of important things to do every day with these players, then try to answer questions for parents. I will talk to players all day long. Now, if a parent feels I've done something unethical or anything, you know, along those lines, I will speak to them in a heartbeat if they feel that's the case. But as soon as the conversation turns back towards playing time or what have you, it's over. You know, when I was a younger coach, I remember some parents saying things to me like, just wait till you have kids. You know, your perspective will change. And I don't know, maybe it has a little, but not really. I feel like I'm the same in that regard. I have blinders on. I want to win ball games, I'm gonna play my best players. I've done really, I've taken a lot of pride in not being influenced by people of status in the community. I'll give you for example. When I was at uh Glenn Academy, that public, it's a public school that Adam Wainwright built our that facility for, and they hired me down to coach it. In two years, I had the uh school board, the chair of the school boards kid, and two other school boards kids. In all my years coaching prior, Colin, I've never had a school boards kid. I had the chair of the school board and two board members kids in two years down at this in a big school, 6A high school in Georgia. And the uh superintendent, not the superintendent, but the school board chairs kid played the least. He was a very difficult parent for me. His wife was even more difficult. So they they tried to intervene and influence me, which I've never had happen before. And I think once that all shaked out, because people, it was kind of common knowledge that they were doing some of these things and the way I handled myself and stuck to my guns on things, I think earned a ton of respect and hindsight with a lot of people where they saw I didn't bend, I didn't break, you know. And I had enough experience at that point, which made it easier, right? I felt confident that if for some reason things didn't work out at his school, that I could find another job. You know, when, you know, that makes it easier. But ultimately you got to stand your ground and you got to do what you believe is right. The other two school board members never said a word to me about anything. One of the kids played like a role player, got more innings his senior year. The other started pretty much the entire time he he was he got up to varsity. And then I was, I had left when that player was finishing. But I know he stayed a starter and he's playing in college. So I think uh, you know, that that proves that, you know, you can't sway. And there's this, can I, if I can touch on for, I think this is a big point that people there's always this perception of politics. So human beings like to look for reasons why their kids aren't playing, aren't starting, and they'll go to any extent to point a finger somewhere, but whether it's at the coach, there's some other people that have money that are influencing the coach. Sometimes race gets thrown into this, and it's unfortunate. I'm not saying in that it none of that stuff happens. I'm sure it does. Um, it's a big world we live in. But the vast majority of coaches that I've come in contact with, that I have gotten to know over the years in North Carolina and Georgia and across the country, are high-level coaches, and they're gonna play the best players that they feel like are gonna help them win. They don't care about the race of the player, what the dad does for a living or the mom. Doesn't matter how much money you have, it's whether that guy is gonna give you the best chance, who you trust the most to get the job done. But perceived politics, like I've only had a couple parents in my 35 years look at me and go, I agree, my kid's not good enough. You know, like he doesn't deserve to start. Most of them are looking to point a finger somewhere. So you just kind of have to understand the human element of all this and ask yourself the why, Colin. Why am I coaching? Am I coaching to please the parents? Am I coaching to make an impact on lives and use baseball as a vessel to teach life lessons and let's win some games along the way, create some memories, create some relationships that'll last a lifetime. And once you have the right mindset, are you are you gonna let a parent, you know, disgruntled parent or a couple disgruntled parents steal steal that away like from you? You know, I hope not. But they can make, you know, they can make it very difficult for a lot of uh coaches. And certainly umpires and coaches are leaving our field at a greater rate than ever these days.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

There's two things I want to touch on. I want to read something I want to hopefully I can find this quickly, but while I look for it, um, in relation to people and they say, wait till you have your kids, your perspective will change. Right. You know, you know, being involved in the community, you know, before I had kids, people would say that thing to me as well. Well, now I have three kids and I'm even more of the way I felt before, knowing everything I know and what I want for my kids. I think part of the problem in all this is people will look at their kids in baseball or football or whatever the sport is, and to them it is only like major league baseball or bust. And if they're not getting on the field in high school, then it's your fault the coach. You're preventing them from reaching their MLB dream. But the reality is, like you said, there, I'm not sure I've met a coach who will be willing to be influenced by politics over the prospect of winning. Every coach that I know or interact with personally are doing everything that they can to possibly win. And in particular in my area, they're not like compensated super well. So they're certainly not doing it for the money. They're here to teach the disciplines that is required to become a better person, which is what I believe sports at the end of the day does. It teaches you the skill set to be a more robust, resilient human being as you go through life. And that gets lost in this. But I found the message it says, a mom is making breakfast for her teenage boy. As he walks in, mom, don't burn the eggs. Careful, careful, careful. Don't mess up, don't let them burn. Be careful, careful. Finally, the mom snaps and says, I know what to do. I've cooked eggs before. And he goes, I know, mom. I was just trying to show you what it's like while I'm playing soccer. And I absolutely love that.

Build Robust, Not Conditional Athletes

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um what a great example, right? Like, you know, let the let the kids play. You know, I have a uh a video on Twitter right now that I filmed when I was at Glenn Academy. Somebody was filming from the side when I was talking to a group, and I'm like, the parents need to get out of the way and let the kids play. You know, there's a time and a place where you can, you know, you can work on things, you can talk about, but let the kids play. I mean, it's a game, you know. So there again, perspective and yelling and screaming instructions over and over again does nothing to help anybody perform. They know what to do, they're trained what to do. And I even went as far to say sometimes coaches say nothing because they actually are working with a player who is very hard-headed and not willing to make necessary adjustments to be successful, right? So this player is uncoachable and it's causing them, as they get to a higher level, they're now getting exposed for whatever reason. Some sort of flaw they have mechanically or what have you is causing them to fail, but they won't make the adjustment. And sometimes you have to let them fail as a coach before they're willing to embrace the change that's necessary. So the parent might get mad that you're not saying anything, but you're intentionally not saying anything. So let the coaches coach, let the players play. And parents, you be parents, you know, and support your kid, support everybody. Try to uh, you know, if you can't keep your mouth shut, go, you know, get behind the outfield fence somewhere where you're far enough away. And, you know, try not to hang around other parents that like to run their mouth. I mean, uh, my son just finished playing, you know, uh, Division I baseball. And, you know, what what a hypocrite I would be to get out there and and be doing all this stuff, right? So did I feel emotion? Did I want my Tabor to be successful? 100%. Every time he's up, I want him to get a hit, right? But I understand how the game works and I understand his mentality. So, you know, I support, I watch, I enjoy, I support all the kids, and it ultimately makes for a much better experience for everybody. If you can do it, it's not easy.

Choosing High School Coaching And Legacy

SPEAKER_01 37:12

I think part of the problem too is like parents in particular, if we're if we're gonna continue picking on parents, because I'm a parent, so I feel like I can. Yeah, I got one thing. It's yelling random things that have no correlation to any type of adjustments. So, like in football, my favorite one in the world is catch the ball. It's like, oh, oh, no, you're right. I wasn't trying to catch the ball. It's not, you know, any type of real tangible coaching point that would enable someone to catch a pass better. It has nothing to do with the angle that they took on their route. It has nothing to do with the position of their hands, right? Or, you know, the tracking with their eyes. It is catch the ball, right? And I give some grace to the parents who have played or coached at a level who can actually give constructive criticism in a calm demeanor, not screaming out on the field, not doing it during the game, but after being able to have the conversation, hey, like, you know, this is where your hands were, if it's baseball or whatever it is, right? Football, like, hey, your technique was a little off, you were a little sloppy in the fourth quarters, you got tired, I saw your pad level raise. It didn't look like you were going through your checks and balances pre-snap, whatever it is. But there's a a time and a place to have those conversations. And something I I will say I do struggle with as I evaluate is I do think that there should be a like player-parent total separation with coach. And I contemplate, you know, having a young son if he does play football. Do I want to get involved in coach in the youth leagues? Because I know I have experience, I know the game. I'm gonna coach for the right reasons. I'm not gonna put the kids in harm's way any more so than football already does. Or do I step back and let them have a different coach? That's something I struggle with internally as a parent who has knowledge of sport and knowledge of game is what is the appropriate time to insert myself into the coaching realm, if at all.

Camps, Resources, And How To Connect

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'll go into the the baseball realm, throw strikes, right? Screaming, throw strikes, like, you know, stop walking people. All right, yeah. Um, so yeah, we're trying to, we're trying to throw balls right now and walk people. So you you hit the nail on the head with that. I I think the second point you were making about when do you insert yourself in, it you have to kind of know your own personality as a coach. I coached my son. I didn't coach him at times. I turned him over probably at nine or 10 to other coaches because I wanted him to be coached by other people and to learn how to make adjustments. And and some of these coaches were very difficult, uh, coached totally different than me, especially like his 12 at 12. And, you know, it was a bad year for Tabor. He he didn't enjoy it very much. But there was gonna be no quit. And we were able to actually talk about if he was upset with a coach or the way he was spoken with or the way he was treated or feeling like he was being slighted, I was able to bring in real-world experiences to what are you gonna do about it? Like, how how can we get through this? And if you were to coach one day, how would you do it differently? And, you know, he is a coach right now, he's a division one baseball coach. But so can we grow and learn from the positive and negatives of others? Because you're going to play, if you play long enough in any sport, you're gonna play for coaches that you love and you're gonna play for coaches that you don't necessarily like. Well, you know, but you still have to hopefully love the game enough that you still have to go out there and and play to the best of your ability and maximize. You can't use your coaches as an excuse. So as a dad, once we got to high school, you know, Tabor and I had a rule, and and that was we don't talk about the game unless he wants to talk about the game. So when we went got home, when the game was over, we would go to the house and I wasn't going knocking on his bedroom door, like, hey, let's discuss your bats or you know, what you could have done differently. And sometimes he would want to talk. And I would have a very calm, you know, and of course he trusts my knowledge and the circle of influence that I have, people that I'm able to that I've grown relationships with that are super high-level coaches in the game, even at the major league level. So I think that that opened him up a little bit more. And my own son's personality, he wasn't combative. He wasn't a know-it-all. He wasn't like, you know, shut up dad, you know, or like he was, as long as I didn't go overboard and just keep beating a dead horse. And, you know, I hit points. I was very strategic. I tried to bring up positives, legit positives. And I would only touch on like one, maybe two things. Like I wasn't gonna go down this laundry list of things that he needed to do different, right? And we and we had a great relationship. Was it perfect? No, but uh again, this word strategic comes in there. We had a plan. I had a plan as a parent. I had a plan as a coach when I coached him. And I, so I could get out in front of everything instead of being reactive all the time and regretting my reactions. And it it the plan worked really, really well. I think Tabor would tell you like not perfect, but really, really well. So you have to know yourself, Colin, and you know, how does your kid react to you? Is he is he gonna remain coachable? Obviously at the field, I was coach. Um, if I had suggestions for Tabor in games, my assistant coaches would have those conversations. So I wasn't pulling Tabor over in the dugout. Hey, this is you know what I saw. This is what you might want to do next time. Again, I had very good assistant coaches, and they would be the ones that would have those conversations with him to keep that father-son tension from entering in a dugout or something like that. So um, every player's every parent's gonna know themselves enough to know, you know, is it gonna be beneficial? Do you have enough self-control? Do you have enough knowledge? And you don't need as much knowledge, the lower level that you coach. You just have to be coachable yourself, right? You got to learn the game. You got to learn how to manage some time and space and give your heart and love to the kids. I mean, if they have fun, we're talking youth level stuff now, and they they, you know, garner some key fundamental skills that they can use to advance through the game, then I think you've been a success.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

Where you were having that conversation with your son when he engaged with a coach that he did not like and it was a really tough year. I love that you're building what I call it's I call it an elite athlete, not necessarily by performance standards, but by behavioral standards instead of being a conditional athlete. A conditional athlete needs to have perfect conditions. They need to have a perfect relationship with their coach. They need to have perfect field conditions, perfect weather, you know, always being in the batting position that they that they want to hit in in order to perform. But what I take out of those types of conversations that you're having with your kid is you're creating a more robust personality. I don't need perfect conditions. Conditions to succeed. I don't need to feel great to play at a high level. I don't need to love my coach or get along with my coach to be able to go out and perform. I can look at this from a view, uh a lens of getting better, learning how to navigate different conversations, learning how to navigate relationships. And what it does is it puts things into perspective and enables you to mature sooner as an athlete to understand I don't need everything to be perfect to play at a really high level. I can play at a high level in spite of my conditions. And the world today creates so many conditional athletes. We try and engineer everything to be perfect when in reality the only thing that you can put your hat on is it's going to be chaotic and not perfect. And to be able to handle those situations with grace, you have to live with them and you have to learn to navigate them instead of trying to make everything so perfect, tucked in, neat and tidy.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Yeah, the quote I heard that that I think of when you're discussing this is you know, prepare your child for their path, but don't prepare the path for the child. So you know, don't yeah, great, right? When I heard it, I was like, that's one of the best quotes I ever heard. So you're preparing your child for their path. There's gonna be frustrations, there's gonna be failure, there's gonna be difficulties. You know, that's where growth really comes from more than success. So as you mentioned, you know, can you learn to be comfortable in the uncomfortable? You know, you're constantly gonna be thrown into these different scenarios. Can you navigate them? Or again, as you mentioned, does everything have to be perfect for you to thrive? Because I hate to tell you, it ain't always in the athletic world, it ain't always gonna be perfect. So the weather's gonna suck, it's gonna be cold, it's gonna be rainy, you know, the field's gonna have lips, you know, like the coaches are gonna, you're not gonna like what the coaches are doing, the coaching decisions, where you're hitting in the lineup, you know, everything is a factor. So can you navigate? Can you thrive in that uncomfortable, right? You got to learn to be comfortable in it first, comfortable in the uncomfortable, and then you got to learn to thrive in the uncomfortable. You know, I think players that thrive in the uncomfortable grow up with parents who aren't out in front of them, constantly removing every obstacle, you know, they're helping educate them through the different things that happen to grow that perspective that you were talking about.

SPEAKER_01 46:12

What brought you to coaching high school instead of getting into the collegiate or professional ranks of coaching?

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Yeah, so in high school myself, I had a negative experience. So everything that we're kind of talking about, it was a huge mental hurdle for me. And I made a promise to myself that when my playing career came to an end, that I would be a high school baseball coach. My uncle was a coach for 42 years. He was a tremendous collegiate athlete, was really good at instructing. He ran high-level camps in the late 60s through the 70s and 80s, and he was really respected by everybody in the community and just a high-level teacher. So I had that element. I kind of inherited that, and I also played for him some and grew up going to his camps. And I had this negative experience in high school. Well, I went out of college and started pursuing, you know, my dream of being a major league baseball player and really forgot about that, you know, that promise. And when I got released by the Braves 1990, the winter of 1990 going into 91, uh, I had a lot of soul searching going on, like a lot of us when our playing careers come to an end. You know, we all think we're gonna make it. And what am I gonna be? And, you know, your sport kind of defines you if you're not careful as a human. And uh, I went through all that. And then I was walking the beach at Wrightsville Beach, uh, right outside of Wilmington, North Carolina, and it like hit me. It was like, it just hit me. It was like, you made a promise to yourself that you would be a high school baseball coach. And I literally, the next week, I started seeking like how, because you have to be a teacher to be a coach, and that wasn't my degree when I was playing at UNC Wilmington. So I went back to school and got another degree, a teaching degree. And I've been coaching at the high school level for 35 years. I have had humbly opportunities to coach in college and to even coach professionally. But what ultimately steered me away from those much further along into my high school coaching career was family. The amount of time that I'm already giving up as a high school coach in Georgia and really good programs at the high school level, it's like college from a time perspective. So, do I really want to coach professional baseball when I'm gone for seven, eight months away from my wife and my kids while they're growing up? No. You know, so I prioritized staying at the high school level. And that's really where I'm at right now. I mean, I'm here in Wilmington with my wife, and she works for Fellowship of Christian Athletes. She works on UNC Wilmington campus working with the coaches and student athletes. And, you know, my son's coaching at UNC Wilmington, where he played. So that's kind of a cool little thing, right? Like I played Division I shortstop at UNC Wilmington, and 30 years later, my son played Division I shortstop at UNC Wilmington. So, like, to watch him out there on the same field as I played, that was one of the most rewarding, crazy things I've ever experienced in my life. Surreal, honestly. But uh, that's where he's coaching right now. They immediately hired him when he when he finished. He didn't get drafted. So he's a Division I uh baseball coach. They they open tonight. In fact, they're playing Maryland. I got practice myself, so I'll be missing that game. But so point is, I gave up all that, and I've I've loved the high school level. These guys are like balls of clay. And uh, you know, I have so many great relationships with my former players, not all of them, but I think when they grow up and they start to have kids, I think their perspective starts to change and they really realize all that, you know, us coaches truly invest into them. And most of them come full circle if they haven't before then and they become pretty thankful. And uh, you know, that's what it's all about relationships.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Heck yeah. I appreciate it, Trend. I appreciate you you coming on today. If people want to reach out to you, if you're working on anything you want to promote, you know, please tell us where where people can find you and what you're working on.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Yeah, so you know, these elite infield schools, we call them dirt bro infield camps. It's not a camp. It's not anywhere close to what what you would think of as a camp. I mean, it's infield school. I do them around the country. That's really what I do full time now after 35 years. Obviously, the summer, the fall, the winter. During the high school season, I'm still building a program, coaching kids up, on which I'm doing today. I'm I'm here at the field right now. See it behind me there. Uh beautiful looking field, by the way. Yeah, it's it's nice. We take a lot of pride in our facilities. And so I'm I'm still getting that that peace and enjoyment of coaching kids and high school young men. But yeah, Dirt Bro USA, D-I-R-T-B-R-O-USA.com is my website. I have digital products on infield play, catch play routines. I've authored two books and I was paid to author books. They are no longer on the market because each book came with a four-hour instructional DVD. Well, we all know that DVDs are dinosaurs and nobody has a DVD player anymore. So Sterling Publishing uh discontinued those, but just recently I was able to get the PDFs. I still have those and I all the video content, even more than what they allowed me to put in. And uh, long story short, those are also on the website now where you can the books are back for sale in a digital form. So all that stuff's there. What I'm up to, you can check it out there. I'm on social media. I got my Twitter, you know, Coach Mongero. Facebook is winning baseball, Coach Mongero, Instagram, Coach Mongero. I don't do the TikTok stuff, but um, you can find me in those places.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

Hey, well, I appreciate you, man. Thank you for coming on. Uh, listeners, thank you for tuning in. Tune in next week. Check us out, athletic42.com. Five stars only, baby. Thank you, Trina. I appreciate you, man. Appreciate you, Colin. Enjoyed it.