Getting to Unstuck

E21 | How We Are Making Sense of the Mess #ThrivingThursday

• Season 1 • Episode 21

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Today, on #ThrivingThursday, we're diving deep into our personal journeys and how we're breaking free from the clutches of stagnation in various aspects of our lives, leadership roles, and thought processes.

Join us as we share our current learning curves and projects, unraveling their implications on our community bonds and relationships. Discover how these experiences are shaping our life and business ventures at present.

GETTING TO UNSTUCK is live podcast hosted by Christal, Colin, and Carol from Whole Human Coaching. Learn more about our work and take our Whole Human Coaching Wheel of Life Assessment at https://wholehumancoaching.com

Some of the resources and references in our episode we mentioned are :

  • Be a Revolution by Ijeoma Oluo
  • Stopgap.ca 
  • Belonging by Toko-pa Turner


We would love to hear from you!

Carol Vickers: [00:00:00] Good morning, good
Christal Duncan: morning. Hello, hello, welcome back. Welcome back
to our, not only to getting to unstuck, but it is thriving Thursday and we
don't do these all the time. We only have a couple of these a month. So
they feel actually very, very special because we get to dive into some
things that we are not generally focused on on Tuesdays, which is our
teamwork Tuesdays.
So welcome today. , if this is your first time here, welcome to Getting .
This is a live conversation that is sponsored by Whole Human Coaching
and this is Whole Human Coaching. The team, our team, we, we work
with individuals with leaders and teams and we help them reclaim
humanity. And that's what these conversations are always about.
So if you are new here, we want to let you know that you can also go
over to Whole Human Coaching and you can take our Wheel of Life
assessment in case you're looking to find, to find some direction for
yourself. [00:01:00] And we have some exciting things coming up on
February 29th. We're going to be having our first live workshop.
And it is going to be about the actual nuts and bolts of how to, how and
when to use a coaching conversation as a leader. So you're going to be
able to find out more information about that in the next couple of days
and to sign up seats are going to be limited. But in the meantime, today
on thriving Thursday, we are diving deep into our personal journeys.
We've called today how to make sense of this mess. And the word
mess, I think of like, Oh man, well, when my daughter was little and if
she had spaghetti and there was tomato sauce everywhere, but no,
where it was supposed to be that's sometimes what life and work and
even just waking up in the morning and what we face can feel like.
So we're talking today about how we're, we're each as individuals and as
leaders what we're doing to break free from the clutches of stagnation in
various aspects of our own [00:02:00] lives and in our leadership roles
and in our thought processes. So we're going to be sharing some of the
things that we're currently learning and working on because it's important
for us to be able to, I don't know, to do the work, to show that we're

doing the work and we are authentic people on an authentic journey as
well.
So let's go there. Carol, I think we want to hear from you first or maybe
someone else has something they want to say before we get into it.
Carol Vickers: Well, one aspect of this that was really interesting as we
talked about presenting this for, for our audience today was how often
we also have different ideas. And part of the wonderful synergy that
happens between the three of us is having the room to share our ideas
and have a little.
A discussion about it, a dialogue about what it, you know, how does that
work or I don't know about that. So I think each of us brings such a
different lens and [00:03:00] perspective, which is really what balances
us. And I started thinking about what I have been working on the last
while. What keeps coming up for me is, especially in the lens of
community and relationship this, this month is around kindness and
belonging.
I have read and referred to in my work a book by a woman called Toko
Pa Turner, and her book is called Belonging Remembering Yourself
Back Home. And she refers a lot to the innate wisdom and knowledge
that we forget. in our common and current world. And it's because most
of us, to be honest, were not raised with grandmothers, aunties, people
around us that remind us of who we are and give us some of those
stories and tell us the mythology of, of our family history.
So one of the pieces [00:04:00] that Tokopah Turner invites people to
do, and what I've been doing, is looking at what is my inner well. What
do I draw upon when things are challenging or tough? And this is really
my area of growth. Because I'm an intermittent mediator, meditator. I
admit that openly. I, I'm probably a more common mediator than I am a
meditator.
And it's not a practice that, you know, I think everybody, I feel like I
should do. It's on my list, but it isn't a common practice for me. So I'm
looking and learning, and this is my learning for taking a look at it this
month. What is it that will be a tool for me to help me remember to be
kind and compassionate?

Because kindness kind of seems to be lacking in the world right now.
Yeah. And it isn't just Tokopaw Turner that talks about belonging.
There's a lot of writers right now who are looking at [00:05:00] What,
where is kindness in the world and how can we evoke that? And I think
even in our conversation that led up to this program, we had some
different thoughts about who we should be kind with and why.
And, you know, I have noticed that there is a polarity that's even existing.
within me about what's right and what's wrong and that's not helping in
my sense of who I am and how where I belong. So it's been a real eye
opening couple of, I think a couple of months. It's been since December
that it's really come into my heart and my mind is how do I exemplify
compassion and kindness and where am I really Narrowing my judgment
and starting to be pretty critical of people.
Christal Duncan: Hmm, that's that's interesting. Carol, I'm curious to
know, when you think about being compassionate and kind, what does
that evoke for you [00:06:00] when you think about you want to see?
There's
the
Carol Vickers: easy ones, right, who I can be kind and compassionate
with, my circle, my family, my, my people.
And where I'm really challenging myself is where can I be
compassionate for people who I have perhaps a visceral reaction to, a
negative reaction to, and do they deserve my compassion and kindness
to.
Christal Duncan: Oh, that's an interesting, so that's an interesting word
that you just used right there, right? Like, do they deserve my
compassion and kindness?
Mm hmm.
Carol Vickers: And who am I to judge?
Christal Duncan: Well, yeah, I think I, and I, the reason I say that is I
think that that's because that's actually something that we've all used,
whether we've said it out loud or not, that's a qualifying statement that

we've, we internally. have running probably in our, in our, in our inner
dialogue.
Yeah.
Carol Vickers: So my challenge is, is [00:07:00] to consider the, the
statement, the beautiful statement of that may all, may all sentient
beings be free of suffering, is that that means all sentient beings, not just
the ones I pick. Yeah.
Christal Duncan: Yeah. Hmm.
Colin Kingsmill: Wow. Interesting. Go ahead, Colin. No, that's really
interesting. It, it, it, it, I'll, I'll follow on from that when you're, when you're,
when you're done.
Absolutely. Please do. Yeah. Because the word that you said that I
thought was so, so key there was judgment. Right. And I think, you
know, judgment comes from our learned experiences, of course. Right.
And, and what we absorb and what we read and, and you know, intuitive
reactions and things like that.
But I think I think for me, when I began to see in the in recent years, the
sort of the division being created in our society [00:08:00] and in our
culture and the, and this sort of remember in the past when things you,
but you. Were true or not, and it was much more black and white, and
you seemed to be able to make sense of it all, right?
And you could learn about something or someone or an experience and
then make, you know, that judgment call, right? That you're, that you
were speaking about today. feels as though there is nowhere to hold on
to in, right. That, that for me anyway, I began to see the world kind of
just like every reference point that I had in the past, just kind of
disappearing like quicksand beneath your feet or beneath my feet.
So. What I've been doing is, is really working on sense making, right?
So, so I've started to dive into history a little bit more into, into [00:09:00]
geopolitics a little bit more into looking at mega trends, like what's
happening at 30, 000 feet that might be affecting my day to day work
and play and business and relationships.

And judgment, right? Or evaluation and analysis. And, and so, so how
does, how do you, how do you, how do you put all of that through this
filter of, of geopolitics and sensemaking in history? Because I think what,
what's happened with social media , and the last sort of 10 or 20 years
that, that we've seen go by is the, that this erosion around information
that We would, we used to receive, you know, in the past you would
read the Globe and Mail and the, and the economist and a couple of,
you know, psychology today and you'd be all right, I'm in the know.
Right. And today or watch the evening news or the morning news today.
It just doesn't feel like that works anymore. To me, a lot of those, a lot of
those sources of information that we used to get that felt trustworthy now
[00:10:00] feel like junk food. So so, so what I do, and maybe this is, you
know, it kind of goes back to our leadership toolkit and strengthening
that strengthening your sense of self right within this swirling changing
times, right?
And, and, and so, so I dive into books, I dive into videos, I dive into
podcasts in those areas, you know, long form podcasts. So, so, you
know, stop the junk food, right? And, and also there's so many words out
there today that are tripwires and triggers, right? We don't have to get
into them here. We all know what they are, but, you know, dive into what
that really means.
Where did it come from? What's the provenance? Right. And, and as we
are, as we are, as I'm giving this this idea of stop eating junk food and
dive into a hearty, nutritious [00:11:00] meal, really dive into what's
important for you and around you and nearby you and right outside your
front door. Right. So that's, that's what I do to kind of ground myself in
this world of, of miss dis up, down, left, right center.
I mean, Just it's just such so confusing. So so yeah I know also question.
Sorry
Carol Vickers: Well, I have a question about that what yeah back to
center Colin because if you dive deep sometimes you're in Murky water
what what pulls you to the surface?
Colin Kingsmill: I suppose it's my mission, right? So my personal
mission of humanity, integrity, fearlessness, and, and freedom from
suffering. I focus my energy and my light on my reading around those
connective tissues, right? So I, I, and I [00:12:00] know it's so tempting,

right? To, to, to look at situations around us. And And they can easily
pull you down and pull you in and, and, and, but are they, are they
serving you that is that deep dive is that rabbit hole serving you?
And is it serving others? Or is it you, you know, again, to the food
analogy, sitting with a box of candy chocolates and just, you know, going
for it, right? So, so, so I, I try and do that. I try and say, yeah. What am I
absorbing? Is it aligned to my my mission and to our mission to what
we're doing and and how can I contribute?
But also if I'm gonna go down that route on YouTube or whatever or X
Yeah, be aware that you're eating candies and you're not Sure. Yeah,
just that know know what you're consuming know where the know where
the ownership of it is know what the incentives are behind it because
[00:13:00] Everything out there is such a product now, right?
So make sure you're buying the right stuff and making the right dishes
and in consuming and ingesting but you're right carol. Rabbit holes are
so easy to go down. I am a daily meditator and I have to say I, I wasn't
for 55 plus years, but last year something changed in me and I, I, I love
it.
And if I don't have it every day, I feel like I'm missing a meal. So that's,
that's my sort of framework for sensemaking in this, in this mess that
we're in. Inspiring.
Carol Vickers: Inspiring. Thank you, Colin.
Colin Kingsmill: Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for asking.
Christal Duncan: Yeah. So yeah, there's a lot there. Yes. Well, it's a lot
there. I'm also a daily meditator.
So and I I recognize and acknowledge the fact that, you know it is the
thing that has grounded me. [00:14:00] It changed literally is, has
changed how I show up in the world. And one of the things that
meditation has done for me is it changed how I observe things. And so,
which leads me to what I have been thinking and working on a lot is I am
currently reading a book called be a revolution.
And Ijeoma Oluwole, and she wrote a book, she wrote the book, So You
Want to Talk About Race. And, whew, it's, it's a lot a lot of incredible

insights. But I have been thinking a lot about what it looks like, and you
know, this is Black History Month right now, and, and thinking about
what that looks like for people of color in general in the world.
And I was listening to, she was, the author was interviewing another
author in an YouTube video I was watching and an interesting statistic
came up. It said that 75%, three quarters of white people don't have
friends [00:15:00] of color and that, but when they start work, often that
is where. They start to develop relationships with people of color.
So, 91 percent of their social networks are not are, 91 percent of our
social networks are homogenous.
So, it's really fascinating to think about, in general, when we think about
the broad, the, the, Expansive work of diversity and equity and inclusion
and what that looks like and always we talk about here about restoring
and reclaiming our humanity in life and work and thinking about what it
looks like for whose voices are at the table.
So in regards to. In regards to race, in regards to if there's any, if there's
any ableism that is happening, if, you know, everything from thinking
about our actual workspace [00:16:00] to the voices and the people who
are the decision makers and what it looks like to actually, it's one thing to
say we have a safe space or to say we're a safe person, but how are we
being held accountable to being a safe person for someone else?
So this is, this is the question that I'm. coming to in my, in myself is, is
asking myself how am I actively working to be a safe person and to be a
safe place for other people? And, you know, it's interesting once, once
you start to decide. That you're going to actively look for opportunities
and, and look for ways you start to recognize how you have made
assumptions about how things go, how our culture works, how the
systems that we're a part of, and you, and you start to realize how
you're, You're contributing to it and you have a, I have, I have a moment
where I'm, I am [00:17:00] realizing that you know, what, what is it going
to mean for me to be that, that change showing up?
So that, that's a lot of the work and it's not just this month. I mean, this is
like a lifelong work. Let's be honest. What's the
Colin Kingsmill: answer to crystal? What's your, what's your, what's
your for you? Yeah.

Christal Duncan: So One of the things that I have noticed is that so in
terms of, in terms of well, in terms of a lot of things, because when it
comes to equity and inclusion I am.
A cisgendered white, like white, visible white woman, even though I'm
Indigenous, I'm a white, cisgendered white woman who is able bodied.
So, so sure, I don't know if you've ever seen, there's, actually, I think it's
the Government of Canada does this thing where it's like the circle of of,
What is the word called the circle of privilege that are like degrees of
privilege.
[00:18:00] And you can go in and see where you are to the obvious
center. Privilege is in recognizing where I am and, and asking myself,
how can I be more accountable for where I am, but how can I also
leverage where I am? Like, how can I be more to, to speak up, not
speak to, but to speak up and amplify the voices and the stories and
amplify and make the space for, to truly create, you know, if we say we
want, we want a world where, that everybody feels safe.
And that everybody's held to accountability for their actions. What am I
doing? It's one thing for me to, to say that and to believe, say, yes, I
believe that, but in my actual actions. So there's been different areas
where I'm like, Hmm, that's, that's just really interesting is, are there
assumptions that I've made?
And there are a ton of assumptions that we make all the time around,
around equity [00:19:00] in general. So that, that we just, you know, you
start to open. You start to tell yourself, and this comes back even to the
meditation aspect is that one of the things that happens in meditation,
excuse me, is that you start to learn how to objectively recognize things,
right?
Like if you're having a thought, you're like, Oh, that's a thought. And
you're not judging it. You're like, okay, a thought came in. That is, that's
serving me in. In my, in my journey of growing and and in solidarity, it's,
it's serving me because I'm starting to recognize things and, and be
curious about that.
Oh, that's interesting that that was my, that was my default or it's
interesting that, that that's never, that I've never noticed that before. Like
when I go into spaces, you know, I. I remember, and, and I'll just kind of
wrap with this this is actually just around ableism in general. I remember

[00:20:00] interviewing in a previous podcast that I had with a friend,
interviewing a gentleman who started the stop gap.
His name is Luke and he said something very profound about what it
means for him to, to have something accessible.
It means that he feels that Like he belongs there because he's he's
paralyzed he profoundly and so eloquently talked about what it was for
something to be accessible for him as someone who has.
been overlooked in those areas and how it feels welcomed in that space
and he feels like he can relax and he can bring his best to that space
and the ultimate goal and gift that we can give someone. else's for them
to be able to feel safe with us. Right. And so much of how we've been
conditioned is to, is to survive and to protect ourself and to assume that
the way that we see it is the only way to see it.
So I guess in [00:21:00] short, I am in an uncomfortable. exciting space
where I am asking myself some very difficult questions about what have
I accepted and what am I willing and, and what am I not going to accept
anymore in how I'm showing up in the world.
Carol Vickers: What I love about this is that each of us is still engaged
actively in learning.
And that what I love about our trio is that we continue to do that and feed
each other and nourish hopefully other people and with provocative
thoughts and ideas. Because that's really how this grows, which is what I
love about this dialogue being shared broadly, is questioning, what am I
learning and how is it nourishing me?
And how am I sharing that so that others can learn from my learning? So
that's why. Everything that we're doing is [00:22:00] so important to me
and I think to, to humanity.
Christal Duncan: Yeah. Yeah. You know learning, kind of learning out
loud in, learning Accepting the fact that you want to be held accountable
for how you didn't know what you didn't know, but now, you know, and
now you can do better, right?
Like, that's what we desire in our leaders, right? Like sometimes I think ,
when I hear. An interview with a lot of politicians and they're like, did you

change your mind? And I'm like, you have the most amazing opportunity
to say, yes, I was wrong. That's really just what, like, you know, what
would that do to build trust for people?
The exciting and raw piece about this is that we are learning out loud
right now and we're continuing to do the work. And as leaders, we
choose to do the lifting, right?
That's the difference. Like, especially in all the spaces that we're working
in and the people that we work with, when it's my individual growth, then
I choose to do the lifting. I don't expect someone else [00:23:00] to do it.
I don't expect someone else to teach me about all the, all the harm that's
been done to them.
That is not their role. My role as a leader is to, do the work internally
because that's how we grow, right? Change happens when we choose
it, not when it's forced on us. And that's the beauty of what we're doing.
What a lovely segue kind of to wrap up coming into at the end of this
month, our live workshop that we're doing.
That's what it's about.. It's not about forcing people to change. It's about
calling them into. What they decide how they decide to change and
what's available and what's possible. So don't forget that to keep your
eyes out for the information on that. Thank you, Colin and Carol for
sharing what's going on with you.
Yeah. If you have enjoyed this conversation we invite you to, first of all,
go back into the archives and like, and share, cause there's a lot of good
stuff there now, but this is our 21st episode, so we're getting some
serious resources. Piled up there. Don't forget. [00:24:00] Also, if you are
interested to learn more about us and our work, you can find
us@wholehumancoaching.com and on all of our socials, you can find us
at Whole Human Coaching.
Thanks for joining us.

People on this episode

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Carol Vickers

Co-host
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Christal Duncan

Co-host
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Colin Kingsmill

Co-host