E28| Coaching: "Woo Woo" or Worth It? #ThrivingThursday

Does coaching actually help? What is coaching? Is it measurable? How can it help my career or business?

Today on #ThrivingThursday we are talking about what coaching is, what it isn't, and what it can look like.

GETTING TO UNSTUCK is a live, recorded podcast with Christal Duncan, Colin Kingsmill, and Carol Vickers from Whole Human Coaching. Find out more about who we are and what we do at https://wholehumancoaching.com

We would love to hear from you!

• Do you have a request for topics or guests?
• Want to learn more about who we work with and how we do it?
• Connect with us at Whole Human Coaching or find us on our socials:
  LinkedIn
  Instagram
  YouTube

Transcript

[00:00:00] Good 

Carol Vickers: morning, 

Christal Duncan: hello, good morning, happy Thursday, happy Thursday, baby Friday, happy baby Friday. That's what I like to call Thursday. 

Carol Vickers: Here we are. We made it this far this year. We can do another couple of days. We're good. 

Christal Duncan: Friday. 

Colin Kingsmill: Well, 

Christal Duncan: Colin and Carol, it is time for thriving Thursday, which is even better than baby Friday for you.

So today we're going to be talking, first of all, I just want to welcome you to the show today. And if you are tuning in wherever you are, whether this finds you, whether you're finding us live right now, or you [00:01:00] were in the car traveling with you, maybe, or you were on your run or doing your evening dishes it's really great to have you join us.

I have a couple of things that we want to remind you of is that coming up on March 28th, we have another free. A 90 minute workshop about the future being the future's whole human connection. And we had such a fantastic workshop last time and we're looking forward to this one coming up. So you're going to want to check that out.

It is at on, at nine o'clock, nine o'clock Pacific, 11 o'clock Eastern, 12 o'clock Atlantic time. If you're in, Turtle Island, and you can find out more over at Whole Human Coaching. But for now, speaking of Whole Human Coaching, and speaking of coaching, today we have a really fun topic, because it's something that we love talking about.

With our clients and together, and it is about what is coaching. So we actually, [00:02:00] when we were talking about a title for this, we were like, what, what is going to get down to the heart of how people may perceive it? How sometimes when we're working with clients, some of the things that come up with them.

And so. Today we're talking about is coaching. Is it woo woo or worth it? And so does it actually help and what is it and is it measurable and how can it help our career or business if so? So I think it's really important for us to kick off this conversation with in the, in the spirit of coaching with some inquiry around.

A little bit about possibly, Carol, if you can help us with just a little bit about the history of coaching. You are a master coach, literally and you have been a coach for many years. Can you give us some insight around that before we dig in? 

Carol Vickers: Yeah, absolutely. Well, looking back at the history of coaching, I mean, coaching as a profession has been done in professional sports and in areas like that.

And that is often what people think of when they think of a coach. [00:03:00] But in my experience, a lot of this began in the personal development world. And there was Werner Earhart was one of the first people who put together a serious personal development program. It was known as Est back in the day, and then moved on to become landmark education.

And the first real coaches that I ever met who were, who were, Certified, who became certified, they were some of the earliest master certified coaches, came from this background. They were deeply trained in personal development. So that's where life coaching began as the first element of what coaching was.

And it got such a bad rap. Really, because there were everybody and their brother put out a sign that said they were a coach. And, and they were coaching people in areas that they should never have been touching. They were offering tons of advice. They were literally the caricature that you, that we saw on, on Saturday Night [00:04:00] Live.

If there's, there's episodes where they really, they just malign coaches because there was such a, a terrible. way that it began. So it's become far more professional. The last, I've been coaching for almost 20 years. The last 25 years, organizations like the International Coaching Federation, the European Coaching and Mentoring Organization has really worked to create boundaries for what coaching is, guidelines, ethics, professional standards, and it's worked to some degree.

More people know what coaching is, but there's still what we've discovered even here we are 2024 engaged with an organization where people have signed up for coaching. And Colin, you had someone who walked in and said, what's this all about? Yeah. What are we doing? 

Colin Kingsmill: What is this all about? Where do we start?

And and, but, but [00:05:00] Carol, I mean, the, You speak of the, of the history. Right. But, but there was, you were talking about an article, or not an article. The a, a reportage recently where the industry was also sort of dragged through the mud. And in modern, modern, modern times. I think it 

Carol Vickers: was like a year or two ago, not even three years ago, marketplace on CBC did an expose on life coaches, and they literally shadowed someone and then they had secret recordings of what the coach was saying.

Now, to be fair, this was not a trained and certified coach. This was someone who had done that same thing, put out their single and said, I'm a coach. And they were offering health and, and related things like diagnosing psychological disorders, offering advice in that realm with no education or background.

And they deserve to be exposed. Yeah, for sure. I wrote a scathing letter saying, hold on, there is a [00:06:00] whole other aspect of this which you have not covered. I train coaches professionally and so what about this? And they wrote me a very nice letter that they were going to look into that part, but it didn't get the press because it doesn't have the sizzle.

Right. Because woo woo is what people think of. And exposing charlatan 

Christal Duncan: cells. 

Colin Kingsmill: Yeah, so we are, we are confronted still in 2024 with this problem, right? That, that this, this image of coaching as being woo woo or, or full of sort of unqualified unqualified individuals when we know, we know otherwise, right?

I mean, it's not easy, so. No, 

Carol Vickers: and there's a code of ethics and a standard for, for how people do coach. And, but the interesting part is, I think what brought us together, the whole idea of whole human coaching, is that that too can be restricting, that there [00:07:00] is some way that we need to be able to be professional and engaged with all of who a person 

Colin Kingsmill: is.

So we've got, what do we have? We have a lack of understanding. We have misconceptions, I guess, that, that are, that are out there. We've got sort of anecdotal evidence and we've got in, in many instances, a lack of standardization of people aren't signed up to the international coaching federation or other regulatory bodies.

So if we move on from that and, and, and what if, what, what about, what are the benefits? What are we seeing in terms of how this can be beneficial and what is it, I guess maybe we have to answer that. 

Carol Vickers: How do you describe it? Let's start there. What do you say if you're introducing yourself to, to someone?

Colin Kingsmill: Well, I say, I say that, well, first of all, obviously it's a confidential space and it's a non judgmental space. And, and I really describe [00:08:00] it as an having an objective sounding board for dissecting or deconstructing some of the narratives that might be going on in your head around a certain issue or around an intersection in time where you need, somebody objective to help you deconstruct that and reconstruct a different approach.

And the reason that it's, the reason we created a whole human coaching is because we be, we, we see that because of the world we live in today and the complexity of it, that, that yeah, what am I trying to say? That, that we, we, we help people see their lives Their professional lives and their personal lives and how to how to make them better and improve and excel and thrive ultimately, I guess.

Right. It's the, the, the, the ideas to get to thriving. So 

Carol Vickers: that echoes Colin, what the ICF uses as a definition. So I'm just going to read it in front of me. So it says defines coaching as partnering with clients in a thought provoking [00:09:00] and creative process that inspires them to maximize their personal and professional potential.

Oh, okay, great. So one of the things that I've been using , , 

Christal Duncan: I am a I love, I'm a storyteller and so I love incorporating story even in anything that I'm doing. But when I've been having my first session with clients, I've been telling them, like, when I was a kid, we, my mom had a little prism that hung in our kitchen window.

And as the sun moved across the sky, the prism refracted the light onto different areas across the kitchen wall. And the cat would often chase the light. But anyways and I said that coaching is, Is like that where we're holding this up and we're holding this situation that may be perceived as not having an answer or being, and we may be so focused on the problem that if we were to slightly shift it through asking different questions, if we were to be more expansive in our thinking, [00:10:00] what, what will we see differently?

So we can explore possibilities and everything is always predicated on the fact that you are whole. Where you are is where you are when you show up to this conversation and Colin, you were mentioning that in an earlier conversation that we had, that we always talk with our clients saying we are starting from a common space here where we know that you are whole, you don't lack anything.

This is, this is us having a, we're co creating something, but really it's about this space that we're sharing with you right now. Yes, 

Colin Kingsmill: I love that idea of the crystal and the, and the, and the light that you were speaking about because I often use that as well. It's simply, you are whole and all we might be doing is shining light into a corner of the room or part of where you are that you might not be, you might not see.

So this idea of lighting up an area. to help you see better is I think a really, a really positive one. I also use the metaphor of, you know, kind of taking away opaque [00:11:00] lenses, right? So you, you might not see clearly now, but we just have to help you remove those lenses that might be Yeah. Clouding your vision.

Carol Vickers: Yeah. That perspective shift is such a wonderful experience for people because, you know, anyone who has done professional coaching knows that there's this moment sometimes when you're connecting with a client and the light bulb goes on and you can see it. Everything shifts in their whole body.

Something they become aware of something they had no access to before that. And that moment of clarity that happens in a coaching conversation, it's truly magical. And it often goes beyond what is explained by the techniques of being a coach. And I think that is where some people think that there is the woo woo.

Because we, if you're a good coach, as far as I'm concerned, you're an intuitive coach. So you're trusting your gut. You don't know where the next [00:12:00] question's going to come from. You aren't, you aren't on a standard, I'm going to ask this next kind of protocol, because you're using all of your senses. Yeah.

And what you do, Colin, which is sense making. 

Colin Kingsmill: Right, right. I think that's a really important point, point Carol, because I think a lot of the time, you know, there are so many models out there. Right. And I've seen a lot of times that coaches can be. Can follow them too rigidly, you know, and, and not get to those aha moments.

But I mean, that's another conversation. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I think curiosity 

Christal Duncan: too, right? Like I, one of the fantastic things about when, when we show up to a conversation as coaches is that we are holding. The curiosity, because our client may not yet have the capacity to be curious about the situation, but we can come in because we're not attached to the backstory and the narrative around it.

We can hold the curiosity [00:13:00] for them and almost lend them that curiosity about the situation. That to me is part of the magical part of coaching. I think entering into that space in terms of curiosity. 

Colin Kingsmill: Mm hmm. Yeah. For sure. So. 

Carol Vickers: Go ahead. 

Colin Kingsmill: Go ahead, Carol. 

Carol Vickers: Well, I was just going to say, there's a lot of evidence as well.

It's one thing that the professional coaching organizations have done is done the work, the research to turn out what is the return on investment. So, Colin, you had some of that. 

Colin Kingsmill: Yeah, I mean, there's, there's, there's kind of a list even to, to look at, to think of before. So, so you have, you have the benefits of improved decision making, increased productivity, enhanced leadership skills.

improved executive presence, better self awareness and increased retention and engagement. So what does that mean in terms of ROI? Well, PricewaterhouseCoopers has done investigate, [00:14:00] not investigative work, but research this and come up with a seven times ROI on initial investment in coaching. And another study called the Metrics Global What found that executive coaching resulted in an R.

O. I. Of between 529 percent and 788%. So yeah, massive, massive return on on investment. Some, a couple of other bits of data that I've got in front of me, coaching can lead to a 70 percent increase in individual performance, a 50 percent increase in team performance and a 48 increase in organizational performance.

And that has the, that, that impacts things like customer service, enhanced relationships with the team, reduction in stress levels. So I think we've just dispelled that it's not woo 

woo, but, 

Colin Kingsmill: but 

Carol Vickers: you're right. It isn't and it is and that's a yes. I think that [00:15:00] that is what, early on what I was taught, that's the art and the science.

Yeah. It's that magic and logic, right? That 

Colin Kingsmill: that balance of magic and logic and somewhere in between so much you have those aha moments, right? Mm-Hmm. . That's why. Go ahead. That's why I think it's so important to deviate from the models, right, to, to, and those sort of, you know, I've got the book, right? Oh, what's the next question?

You know, it's like, 

Carol Vickers: no, no, 

Colin Kingsmill: don't go there. 

Carol Vickers: And yet new coaches need to. So I do a lot of coach training and having those guardrails of this is what we do next. And this is, this is the competency that I'm, that I'm exhibiting. It's really worthwhile to embed that in. And that's why I think both of you are such good coaches, not.

You know, I'm not going to take credit for it. I did train crystal, but I have and mentored, but I think what's what happens with really good coaches is they take those basics and they expand and and grow [00:16:00] because what we do at whole human coaching is we don't stop with just this is how it's done. We research, right?

We Educate ourselves and we continue to learn and we look at the current trends and and what's happening And we bring all of that back to our clients as well Because it's a complex world. I think it's a complex world and and we know this 

Christal Duncan: are It's, and it's not going to get any less complex. So the way the, the path forward to kind of future proof your, yourself and your organization is to be honest about what you're going to need, what kind of tools are you going to need?

Are your people going to need to be able to navigate these, these more, the complexities of the complexities, right? Yeah. So I'm curious then, what do you think? Either of you how, how can we, when people are thinking about, let's say, for example, someone is [00:17:00] either thinking about investing in coaching for themselves or for their organization.

And when we, when we hear those numbers call in that you were talking about, what does that actually mean? Like, how is, how can we measure that? Because we do that with our clients, but let's just like, kind of pull back the curtain a little bit and help people understand the ways that those can be measured.

Colin Kingsmill: Well, we, you know, whenever we start any coaching engagement, we always, we always kind of do a a survey of where you are today. Right. And looking at the wheel of life and all of the elements that make up you as, as a human and how you're you're you're navigating this world. So it's it's it's it's great to start and see where you start with and then you can see where you end and you can really measure that.

But I mean we could dive into so many elements like retention, you know if you stress, you know, There's so many benefits to not having massive turnover and having happy, happy and happy, equipped, fulfilled and [00:18:00] thriving equipped, you know? Mm-Hmm. Staff because Yes. That impacts everything from Yeah.

Your customers and, and your customer satisfaction and, yeah, so much more toxicity creates cultural cohesion, right? There's so many, so many measurements. 

Carol Vickers: Those can be measured because you can get people's, how people are feeling at the beginning of a coaching engagement and how they are at the end.

And the truth is we do that contracting in every single session as well. Because we begin as a professional coach, you begin with where do you want to go? So that in each hour or half hour that you get with someone, you also know where they want to get to. So it's measurable in a 30 minute or 45 minute session too.

So there's always these ways to continue to look and, and it's, it isn't really revealing behind the curtain because this is how it should all be done. Yeah. So maybe this is the distinction, is that if you're speaking to someone who doesn't have these kinds of approaches [00:19:00] to, Well, we wanna know, we wanna be able to measure both in this session, but over the whole contract that we have with you, how it's working for you.

Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. And you deserve us being professional. 

Christal Duncan: Yeah. You, you deserve to know, you know, in everything else that we invest in, there are ways that things can be measured and, it although it looks different thing, it still is measurable and it clearly is measurable because we've been able to do it with, you know, and and even it's, it's so interesting because when we do part of part of the measurement is almost like an inventory that we do with people at the beginning and at the end and seeing those numbers.

Seeing those numbers change and they're, as they reflect on things is always so rewarding. From a personal note, as a, as a coach to see that that change happen and to see people have that agency and recognition of where, of being able to show for themselves how they've actually changed is really an [00:20:00] exciting part of, of what coaching has to offer.

Carol Vickers: So I think we're coming down to it. It's both woo woo and worth it. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. 

Colin Kingsmill: Quite literally. Yep. The magic of the logic. Yeah, 

Christal Duncan: totally. Yeah. Well team, thank you for another fun conversation today and for a little bit of history behind where coaching came from. And giving us some insights around that.

If you want to find out more about our work, you can find us as we say over at Whole Human Coaching. We also have all of these episodes they're all available on our website. So you can dig back into our archives. We're getting quite, quite a resource library built up in there, which is really exciting.

And don't forget if you like this episode to share it and even leave a review, which would be so fantastic. And if you want to find out more about how we work and the types of people that we work with, why not just reach out to us? We'd love to have [00:21:00] a conversation. Thanks for joining us. Thank you, 

Colin Kingsmill: everybody.

Take care.