E35 | Leadership Style Not Working? Here's How to Reclaim It.

The challenges of leadership can often feel isolating and insurmountable. Today on Getting to Unstuck, we are looking at what it means to reclaim your true leadership style.

But what if the key to unlocking your full potential as a leader lies not in authoritative command, but in cultivating a culture of growth, feedback, and empowerment?

Today we are breaking down the core elements of effective coaching conversations that leaders need to understand how to use.  

Whether you're struggling with disengaged employees, facing resistance to change, or simply looking to refine your leadership approach, this episode is a must-listen. 

Want to find out how to reclaim your leadership style, transform your communication, and create a lasting impact on your team and organization? Join our new leadership training, RECLAIMING LEADERSHIP. Find out more at https://wholehumancoaching.com

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Transcript

Colin Kingsmill: [00:00:00] I just pressed the go live thing because we weren't going live. 

Carol Vickers: Oh, now we're live. We're live, we're live. I love the live part of this. Yeah, exactly. 

Christal Duncan: If you're listening and wondering if we're really live, you, we must be live now. You can hear us. Good morning. I thought it was to be automatic. Good morning, afternoon, evening, wherever you are.

It is It is teamwork Tuesday, but it's a lot of other great things today too, as well. So welcome to getting to unstuck. We are happy that you're here. Today we are, we've got a lot going on. There's, I mean, there's a lot going on all around us. A lot going on globally. There's a lot going on in the workplace.

There's a lot going on in every single individual life. There is. So much, [00:01:00] there's so many elements to being human these days, don't you think? There are just, 

Carol Vickers: it's dizzying. It really is. When you think about it, you know, when 

Christal Duncan: you think about all the, all the things that are that in, just in the last, just in the last couple of years, let's just think about the last five years, let's say, 

Carol Vickers: What's happened 

Christal Duncan: in, in the world.

so much. Right. We've had, we've had pandemics. 

Carol Vickers: We've 

Christal Duncan: had financial crises. 

Carol Vickers: We've 

Christal Duncan: had a massive impacts of climate change. We have climate refugees moving around the world. We've had the highest temperatures. On earth recorded for the longest periods of time, we have had people go up to the moon and go to the bottom of the ocean.

We've had all kinds of things happen. And we also had this little thing called AI that was already happening in the background, but it's now out in the open. This, the, the AI cat is out of the bag [00:02:00] and are changing every day. There's a lot of questions. And there's. You know, questions around, will I have, will there be the kind of workforce that I was trained for?

Carol Vickers: Will 

Christal Duncan: my skills apply anymore? I spent so much time investing in this level of my career. What's the future? There's just so 

Carol Vickers: many 

Christal Duncan: questions. And so today we're going to talk about A little bit about that. We're gonna talk about it. Not just a little. We're gonna talk about it for a couple reasons. We're gonna be talking about what happens when your leadership style isn't working and how to reclaim it.

And we're not talking about tactics today. This is not about just do this and you'll be able to make this happen because this the leadership Appreciate it. The, all the, all the things that we thought was good advice from before, while it might've worked in a certain time, all bets are kind of off in this climate.

Do you not think in a lot of ways? 

Carol Vickers: Yeah, I do. You know, someone said to me that they wish they were born earlier so that they could [00:03:00] get an MBA and become an executive. And that would be their career. Yeah. And I think there was this myth back, you know, not that long ago, 15, 20 years ago, that if you had an MBA and you applied for a role, you would be a leader and you'd be on your, you'd be done.

You wouldn't need anything else. You got your business acumen and you can, Lead a whole bunch of people into success 

Colin Kingsmill: and be successful , quote unquote. Yeah. 

Carol Vickers: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we're looking, well, none of, go ahead, . 

Colin Kingsmill: No, I'm just saying none of, none of the, none of the parameters are valid anymore. None of you don't know where to point.

You don't know where to look. None of the assumptions you used to make are valid anymore. Mm-Hmm. it is basically it's. It's leadership on quicksand, you know, 

Christal Duncan: that's a good way to that's a good scary way to but [00:04:00] it's true. Yeah, 

Colin Kingsmill: I think, I think, I think sometimes it could feel that way. Yeah. You know, just because of, of.

All the, all the parameters, all of the, the signposts, all of the ancient wisdom and knowledge and rules and regulations and everything was kind of accepted for a very, very long time and now that that's all gone. Yes. So, 

Carol Vickers: well, there was, there was a way that we understood it was like to be a leader or a boss.

If you ask someone, what's a, what's a, what makes a boss? There was a really clear understanding about somebody who told you what to do and who's, who's approval you had to get and who you always had to show up for in a certain way. And For those of us who are listening, who are leaders, that no longer fits.

Now there's this revolving door of people coming to your office who have, they've got personal issues. They've got [00:05:00] challenging issues with their, with their families. They have to go on leave. And we just wondered, you know, speculating 50 people, how many people are on leave, stress leave? Oh man. 

Colin Kingsmill: That's Or about to leave 

Christal Duncan: or ready to leave.

Yeah, we 

Colin Kingsmill: need to find the next best thing. Right. Leadership is leadership has turned into much, much more of a heartfelt process than a. I think a mind felt process before, before you had, you know, you read the Harvard business review once a week and read the economist and read a few other journals.

And you're like, well, I know what I'm doing. And ink magazine and, and Forbes and all the rest. And now none of, I mean, that might still be valid, but you have got to be operating from the heart and the soul a lot more than you used to, because people can't leave, Their challenges at the door and nor they should [00:06:00] they I mean, you can't shut off the personal life and all the stressors that we just mentioned and there's many, many more right?

You can't leave those at the doorstep when you come in to perform a task in the office. How do you, how do you deal with that as a leader? 

Christal Duncan: And Carol, you had mentioned a few times, and I've noticed this too, even if you look at how jobs are listed now for any kind of role that is any level of leadership or managing people.

One of the key things that they will almost always say is have the ability. to know how to coach the people you're leading. 

Carol Vickers: That's 

Christal Duncan: a common thing you see in job, in job listings now. 

Carol Vickers: Oh, everything from a Starbucks manager app is expected to coach their people. And well, we know because we're engaged in it, that most people have no idea how to coach someone, but the qualities that are required are really realistic that they are needed.

You've got [00:07:00] to be able to have some understanding. And you know, having a degree in psychology or philosophy might actually do you better than a degree in business these days. Hmm. Is that interesting? Yeah. 

Colin Kingsmill: And an understanding of multigenerational differences, right? We know, I think this is probably the first time in history.

I think you said earlier, Carol, that we have four generations in the workplace. 

Carol Vickers: Oh, yeah, there's no diametrically 

Colin Kingsmill: opposed everything. So, and 

Carol Vickers: so. One one policy is not going to fit all one procedure is not going to fit all so as the leader and I'm sure there are people who are listening to this is like, Oh, yeah, that I've got complaints coming at me all the time because this doesn't fit.

So and so and it doesn't fit this person and if I do it their way, then everybody else in the room is going to be annoyed. So how do we as leaders figure out what fits? What not [00:08:00] just what our style is, because that's important, but how to be flexible in that style. 

Christal Duncan: Yeah. 

Colin Kingsmill: Yeah. I mean, but the challenge though, isn't it?

The challenge is, how do you be flexible and address all of those different generational challenges or, or Differences and at the same time, run a business or run your team. 

Carol Vickers: You 

Colin Kingsmill: know, that's, that to me is where the tension is. It's, it's sometimes you have to run at 100 miles an hour when the rest of the team or parts of the team might be going at 50 

Carol Vickers: and 

Colin Kingsmill: they're not ready for that speed or they're not ready for those changes.

So And you don't want to bash people over the head and just drag them along like, you know, Flintstone style, right? So, how do you play in an ever changing space? 

Carol Vickers: Well, I think what we've discovered is it really comes down to learning about yourself. First of all, being honest about what you, what you naturally go to under stress as a leader.[00:09:00] 

Christal Duncan: You know, 

Carol Vickers: do you, do you revert back to that Flintstones style where you're yelling at someone out the office door? Or do you have enough awareness to be able to know how to be resilient and flexible in who it is you're talking to next? And yet, at the end of the day, still fulfill what is required of you.

Because that, as you said, Colin, is very true. That is truly the tension. We still have work to do here. We've still got to get this product out the door. We've still got to meet these customers needs. How do we do all of that and take care of our people? 

Christal Duncan: Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting. You know, we are, so our new leadership, and we'll be talking about that in a few minutes, our new leadership development course that is focused on learning how to use coaching skills in your leadership.

We decided to call it reclaiming leadership. And if you look on our site, or if you listen to anything that we talk about, we use that word a lot because we really believe [00:10:00] that the concept of reclaiming something means you You have had it. It is yours. You do own it. You do possess it. You know, like when you go into a coaching call, you go in with the understanding that someone is complete already.

We're going to, but we are going to reclaim that completeness in how we're, how you're approaching this question or this, this challenge. So I am curious to hear your thoughts about when we talk about What it means to reclaim our leadership in just even as we talked about this in the title of you, you know, for example, if someone realizes that they are becoming really if they're a leader and they're really heavy handed in their leadership, you know, or maybe the reverse is your, you want to reclaim your own leadership abilities.

You're under someone who's heavy handed either way. It's a very oppressive, suppressive kind of. 

Carol Vickers: So 

Christal Duncan: how can people, how can people create the flexibility in the moments of those conversations and in those interactions [00:11:00] and change how they're showing up? 

Carol Vickers: I think there's really two sides to it. And part of it is who, and this goes to power and authority.

It really does. If you are the leader, And you've come to realize that you are operating in a very autocratic kind of heavy handed way. It's up to you to be able to have some self examination, some self awareness, and begin to consider who you really want to be, which is really reclaiming not just your leadership, but your humanity, as you often say, Colin.

That's one. Bucket of conversation. But the other one is, what if you work for someone like that? How do you retain your own individual leadership and how do you show up under that person? Perhaps you are leaders to, you're a leader for other people because then we get these multi layered situations where you may have, you may have a really [00:12:00] challenging leader at the top, but you still have to lead your people underneath it.

So where does that come in? I think that's a really big question. So which way, which way would you tackle it first, Colin? 

Colin Kingsmill: Well, I have a little, like, I have a little, Evil side of me that says, well, if you could, you could play with this and bring joy and some fun into the equation. Okay. So if you've got somebody that you need, that, that is sort of working in the old regime, right?

The old world order of doing things. And they write you a thousand page email or a thousand, you know, word emails that are just. Okay. You know make your head want to explode you could use chat jbt or something like that to write 2 000 words back so I I I So the dennis the menace in me is like well You could [00:13:00] bring some joy and play and laughter into it and just send it right back, right?

So that's that's the That's the Dennis the Menace version of it. I mean, the, the, I think the essence of, of how to deal with up or down or left or right or sideways, what is getting back to who you really are. And I often say to people, forget everything you've learned because Because so much has changed and so much is changing and the rapid acceleration with things like AI or with geopolitics and the way the world, the world is going, we often can't rely on our old assumptions.

Yes. Yeah, everything. So, so, so you can play Dennis the menace and maybe, you know, temper that appropriately, but, but also go inside and understand what are you reacting to, [00:14:00] 

Carol Vickers: and 

Colin Kingsmill: I think, I think, and we've talked about this before, this idea of, of, of going inward and understanding awareness, understanding your reactors, what are the triggers that might be Make you react towards that person negatively, and then you bring it, you know, you bring it into your team too.

So I, I, I think it's about humility and understanding your ego and where it sits in the equation and, and emotion and, and tuning up your emotional intelligence. Mm-Hmm. , it feels as though we are in an era where, where your humanity needs to be amped up front and center. 

Carol Vickers: Mm-Hmm. . 

Colin Kingsmill: Turn down, turn off the books.

Turn on the humanity. And if you can have some fun in the, in the, in the midst of it, you know, please do so. But yeah, I think, I think that's, that's, that's, I love it, 

Carol Vickers: Colin. I mean, 

Colin Kingsmill: that's where 

Carol Vickers: it's at. Yeah, I, you know, one thing I refer to often when I'm coaching people is, well, something my grandmother used to say is like, Remember we all [00:15:00] put our pants on one leg at a time.

Yeah, right. The reality is that your boss, whether you're managing up or you're managing down, who the people you're working with are humans as well. And fundamentally, we all actually want the same things. We want to have a A workplace that is kind and compassionate and where we feel welcomed and at home.

We want to have that same experience when we're in our homes. We want to feel that we are loved and taken care of. Those things we have in common as humans across the planet. perhaps beyond, we don't know yet, but, but what we, what you're pointing to, but I love Colin, is that we can actually appeal to that humanity.

And it may feel very risky putting out something that is rather tongue in cheek or a little bit cheeky, as you said, to be able to draw attention to, [00:16:00] there might be some humor here and there might be some lightness. 

Colin Kingsmill: That seems to be the forgotten element, I think, in the workplace today. The humanity, light, joy, play.

And, and you're right. Remembering that we all do put on our one, you know, one leg at a time. And, and that to me in the era that I certainly did my MBA and grew up in that MBA world That was never addressed. It was all about, you know, results and the end results and the ROIs and, and, and I guess that's why we're, you know, we really created a whole human coaching to say, hold on, we, the workplace can be looked at through different lenses and can be measured in different ways.

And let's create, you know, a movement or a system around changing those measurements 

Carol Vickers: because 

Colin Kingsmill: the old ones just don't work. I mean, they don't work. I think for any generation. In, in the [00:17:00] workplace, whether you're Gen Z or whether you're a boomer kind of in, you know, getting ready to do something else in the next chapter, none of it's working and, and the mental health numbers in, you know, in Canada and the US and the health numbers are, are telling us, you know, it's not just food, it's not just the news, it's not just geopolitics, it's not just all the other stuff that's like we talked about at the beginning of the, of, of, of the podcast, but it's also, you know Are this this model isn't working.

So let's, let's change it. So 

Christal Duncan: thank you for that little segue, Colin. Speaking of models models are interesting. Well, you know, whenever you, I'm an entrepreneur and I have started many businesses. And one of the first things when you are thinking about a business is you do want to think about the model that you want.

To build. And you can always, you can always, that model can always evolve that model. You can add to it. You can take away from it, but you need a [00:18:00] starting place and with a business model in order to really know how to focus. That's an element of business. Every, anybody who is an entrepreneur will tell you that you also need, you know, we, we use models for everything.

My, I, I'm in a family of a lot of architects and architects love models, right? Like start with a model designers start with a model and they build out from that. And so. Human connection is actually no different. It is whether, because whether or not we acknowledge or aware that we're using models does not change the fact that we are using models.

Sometimes our models are default modes that are not working well for us. We are all using models. So the opportunity, a part of reclaiming our leadership is to think about what model Are you using? What model are you building for yourself? That is true to your values, true to your strengths. That's true to what you bring to the world and what [00:19:00] you want to, what you want to be able to create for yourself and others.

So I, I would love to hear about how coaching models can help with leadership in ways that would probably surprise people. Yes. 

Carol Vickers: Well, you know, the basic coaching model and this, if anyone has considered taking coach training of any kind, there is a basic coaching model that you begin with a conversation that starts with permission, you have a middle where there's a lot of questions and listening, and you end the coaching conversation with some actions that can be taken forward to move forward.

to move something ahead. That's the basic model of coaching. But when you put it into, into a human way of interacting, you're beginning with that sense of compassion and understanding and curiosity. You're asking questions which are to further where that human is going to go. And you're ending with something that has the person [00:20:00] feeling like they have more capacity than when they started.

That they have more understanding of what they're capable of. So that model fits anywhere and that's the magic of it. And that basis actually fits with any leadership style. Any leadership style can benefit from using this type of conversation casually in the hallway, in an interview, in a, in a performance evaluation.

It all can fit into this way of being together. That is of the benefit to the benefit of both human beings. Yeah. 

Christal Duncan: Yeah, 

Carol Vickers: because the secret about coaching that nobody really talks about is the coaches get as much out of it as the people they coach. 

Christal Duncan: So true. Yeah, yeah, that is so true. So we have 

Colin Kingsmill: people that we have fun.

Christal Duncan: We get paid to have fun. It was 

Colin Kingsmill: really hard. [00:21:00] 

Christal Duncan: We have we have our, our, our launch coming up and our inaugural program that is that we're doing to collectively. So we've all been part of different programs. This is our first full human coaching program and it's it's called reclaiming leadership.

Yeah. Where it's coming soon, people can find out information at wholehumancoaching. com under under training. If you're interested in finding out more about that. In our program Carol, what are some of the elements that people are going to be learning Should they choose to join us? 

Carol Vickers: Well, what they're going to walk away with is some tools that they can use immediately in their life for their leadership.

So the idea of reclaiming leadership using this really quick program is that you will walk away, you'll walk away a more aware human being. You will have some deep listening skills. You'll have some powerful ability to ask questions in a way that doesn't lead the conversation necessarily. Thank you. And more than anything else, you're going to have a bit of resilience in [00:22:00] how to approach conversations.

No matter what the temperature, emotional temperature is, you'll have a better understanding about how you can be in there in a, in a beneficial way for the people you're talking to. 

Christal Duncan: Perfect. And it's, it's a certificate program. So we offer certificate that people can use that is proof that you actually know how to put it into practice.

So it's 8 weeks, 12 hours total, 8 weeks 2, 2 times a week. We meet for 45 minutes. The first session on Tuesdays, we're doing on Tuesdays and Thursdays this round. First session on Tuesdays is a record, like a live recorded session. Element of people can't be there live. They can watch the recording.

And the second session on Thursdays is live interactive practice where you are actually going to be the one that is learning how to use this in situations with with your fellow cohort members. I'm, I'm proud of this. I'm proud of the work that we do. I am like, honestly, proud of the work that we do.

I'm proud of what we're putting out in the [00:23:00] world. And I'm proud of the people that we work with already and with our clients and how we have. We don't just, we're not just talking about this. We've actually been putting this into practice day after day in all the different scenarios that we're in. 

Carol Vickers: So if 

Christal Duncan: you would like to know more about that, a reminder to go to wholehumancoaching.

com under the training, you'll find the information there. If you have questions, feel free to reach out to us. If you want to learn more about how you could bring this into your workplace for your team everything from how can you pitch this to maybe to your To your organization to have it funded or any questions that you have, just please feel free to reach out.

And one parting thought we went a little over time, our apologies, but one parting thought when, when you think about reclaiming leadership. What do you, what comes to mind for you guys? 

Carol Vickers: Well, it sounds odd, but the word that just popped into my head was victory. And it's not like victory, again, in a war, but victory with what we can, [00:24:00] who we can actually be in the world.

That's what comes to mind for me. 

Christal Duncan: Amazing. What about you, Colin? 

Colin Kingsmill: To me, it's being untethered. Untethered from the Untethered from narratives and stories from the past that are holding you down and holding you back as a leader and then subsequently holding the people that you work with back. And if you can free yourself from those stories and narratives and blockages and ego sort of driven elements What are the possibilities of being unleashed and untethered?

And I think they're really unlimited. So so, so join us and break free. Yeah. 

Christal Duncan: Yeah. Thank you for joining us today. And if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to like and share. And you can find us everywhere on socials and online at whole human coaching. Thanks for watching. 

Colin Kingsmill: Bye bye. Take [00:25:00] care.